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View Full Version : Chiefs Whitlock: Someone should be fired for way Chiefs using Dorsey


DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 12:16 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/columnists/jason_whitlock/story/947588.html

After the Chiefs’ latest loss — a 38-31 thriller to the Dolphins courtesy of Kansas City’s three-point second-half explosion — I intended to write a column summarizing what progress has been made this season.

It was going to be a very short story. But then, as I was standing in the corner waiting to get a private word with Herm Edwards, a squatty, would-be linebacker/fullback walked by me on the way to the shower. Tattooed on the back of his shoulders were six rather large letters D-O-R-S-E-Y.

“That’s Glenn Dorsey, the Chiefs’ No. 1 draft pick?”

The realization totally blew my mind. Oh, I’ve seen Dorsey plenty in the locker room after games. But never barefoot. And never without a clear view of his face. Until Sunday, I had no clue that Glenn Dorsey is a shade below 6 feet tall. You put him in a police lineup with other NFL players, and you peg him as a plodding fullback. He’s Lorenzo Neal.

Now Dorsey’s disappointing season makes perfect sense, and the case to retain Herm Edwards and his coaching staff gets even more difficult to argue.

What in the hell are they doing playing Dorsey straight-up over a guard?

This is the single-worst, defensive-strategy decision I’ve seen in 15 years of covering the NFL. Honestly, defensive coordinator Gunther Cunningham and defensive-line coach Tim Krumrie should be fired today and not allowed to travel to Cincinnati for the season finale.

And Herm Edwards owes Clark Hunt a detailed explanation of why he allowed Dorsey’s rookie season to be wasted by a boneheaded scheme. Short of Cunningham and Krumrie owning compromising blackmail photos of Edwards, Hunt has no choice but to promptly relieve Edwards of his responsibilities.

You don’t draft a 5-foot-11, 300-pound defensive tackle at No. 5 overall, give him $20-plus million in guaranteed money and then ask him to be a run-stuffer lined head-up over a guard.

For those of you who know little about line play, it’s the equivalent of the Indianapolis Colts turning Peyton Manning into an option quarterback. If Indianapolis did that, Colts fans would justifiably rush the field and trample Tony Dungy and his offensive coaching staff.

Dorsey is listed at 6-1, 297 pounds. Even at those dimensions, the strategy is asininely inappropriate. But if Dorsey is 6-1, then I’m the bastard son of Carl Peterson and Oprah Winfrey.

Dorsey is a butterball, a Jerry Ball, a three-technique tackle who should line up on the outside shoulder of the guard and explode upfield. That’s the only way he can be successful in the NFL. As long as he lines up helmet to helmet with a guard, he’ll remain a line-of-scrimmage statue.

“He has no chance in pass rush,” guard Brian Waters told me. “I love it when a guy lines head-up.”

Members of the Chiefs’ scouting department have blamed Dorsey’s subpar rookie season on the extra weight they allege he’s carrying. I’ve been told on two separate occasions that KC’s scouting department evaluated a 300-pounder who is now playing at 315. The personnel guys stand behind their evaluation of Dorsey, the insinuation being a lighter Dorsey would be a more effective Dorsey.

“The way we’re playing him, he better be 315,” Waters said. “He would get destroyed in the run game at 300.”

Given his size and style of play at LSU, there’s only one justification for taking Dorsey at No. 5: You believe he has a chance to be the kind of backfield-disrupter that Warren Sapp (6-1, 300 in his prime) was. Sapp used his explosiveness, quickness and power to get in gaps and force the action.

The Chiefs are using Dorsey as if he’s Albert Haynesworth, the 6-6, 320-pound Tennessee Pro Bowler. Haynesworth goes wherever he wants on the football field. He takes whatever space he desires.

I have no idea whether the right scheme would improve Dorsey’s production. I question his footwork, quickness and explosion. Maybe those shortcomings would disappear with weight loss and being asked to do what he’s capable.

I do know this season may have damaged him permanently. Competition is a game of confidence. Walking into that locker room and watching film of getting blown up week after week can be demoralizing to any player.

This is simply inexcusable. Most high school coaches would know better than to use Dorsey the way the Chiefs have this season. Dorsey’s use indicates a level of dysfunction between the coaching staff and personnel department that is mind-boggling.

Rather than sort through the mess and try to discern who’s to blame for the poor communication, Hunt has every right to blow up everyone and start over.

88TG88
12-22-2008, 12:18 AM
gun

Ebolapox
12-22-2008, 12:21 AM
wait, our coaches may be legally retarded? whoda thunk it?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:21 AM
Once again as I've said forever, Tim Krumrie is one of the worst coaches ever.

booger
12-22-2008, 12:23 AM
then I’m the bastard son of Carl Peterson and Oprah Winfrey.



Jwhit stole this from me from the many times i said Claythan is the bastard child of Carl and Rosie O'donnell.

Basileus777
12-22-2008, 12:23 AM
This is pretty fucking depressing...

Agent V
12-22-2008, 12:23 AM
Hunt has every right to blow up everyone and start over.

There's the go-ahead. Let's go Joker on these bitches and blow 'em sky high.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:23 AM
It all starts at the top.... Its time, to clean up this mess and start building a football team..

RedThat
12-22-2008, 12:25 AM
chiefs would be stupid if they keep this staff around

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 12:25 AM
JWhit is probably right considering Dorsey wasn't measured at the combine.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:25 AM
So anyone that defended Herm, I wonder what they'll say about this.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:26 AM
chiefs would be stupid if they keep this staff around

Sorry, but Herm is developing his draft picks nicely... /KCJohnny...

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:27 AM
So anyone that defended Herm, I wonder what they'll say about this.

They will spin it and make some serious excuses for Herm, They always do!...

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 12:27 AM
On a side note this is one of the longest homeruns Whitlock hit this year. The stuff from Waters lends instant credibility to his premise.

Loved it.

booger
12-22-2008, 12:27 AM
JWhit is probably right considering Dorsey wasn't measured at the combine.

they do that again at pro days

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:29 AM
They will spin it and make some serious excuses for Herm, They always do!...

They'll tell us that Whitlock sucks and doesn't know what he's talking about.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 12:30 AM
They'll tell us that Whitlock sucks and doesn't know what he's talking about.

No, no. You have to begin with a fat joke, and then say he only plays the race card. Then, you're allowed to attack his football knowledge.

But Herm's still the man. He's got this defense on lock. Give it more time. Patience.

cdcox
12-22-2008, 12:31 AM
This is one of those times I really miss Parker. Dude knew DL play.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:32 AM
When you look at all the high DL picks and how they're working it's pretty obvious they don't know how to coach any of them.

kcchiefsus
12-22-2008, 12:32 AM
Uhh, Dorsey's official combine measurement was 6'1 1/2". Not sure where this fat **** Jason Whitlock came up with him being a shade under 6'0".

Combine measurements are pretty accurate last time I checked, there are rarely mistakes made in measurement at the combine.

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 12:34 AM
Hmmmmm....

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2008/03/26/glenn-dorsey-pro-day-results/

He measured in at 6-foot-1 3/4 and 297 pounds.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:35 AM
When you look at all the high DL picks and how they're working it's pretty obvious they don't know how to coach any of them.

Or they really dont have an eye for talent after all... I think Herm is a marginal draft evaluator at best... He like many others gets the no brainer picks right, but over the last 3 years, he has been nothing special...

booger
12-22-2008, 12:37 AM
We take DJ on a what is there to lose gamble and put him in the middle. But they won't flop Tank and dorsey inside just for a look.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:37 AM
Or they really dont have an eye for talent after all... I think Herm is a marginal draft evaluator at best... He like many others gets the no brainer picks right, but over the last 3 years, he has been nothing special...

People think he's great because follow Vermiel a monkey throwing shit would have been an upgrade.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:38 AM
People think he's great because follow Vermiel a monkey throwing shit would have been an upgrade.

Agreed, DV didnt do us any favors and right now, I would almost say that Herm is going to leave this team in just as big cluster fuck as DV did... Maybe worse...

kcchiefsus
12-22-2008, 12:38 AM
Hmmmmm....

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2008/03/26/glenn-dorsey-pro-day-results/

He measured in at 6-foot-1 3/4 and 297 pounds.


Yep, I got the same measurement from nfldraftscout.com. Now I am not debating the premise of this article, yes the Chiefs are using Dorsey wrong.

My argument really is pointless, but at the very least Whitlock should be accurate. Just because he doesn't look 6'0" doesn't mean he isn't.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:39 AM
Yep, I got the same measurement from nfldraftscout.com. Now I am not debating the premise of this article, yes the Chiefs are using Dorsey wrong.

My argument really is pointless, but at the very least Whitlock should be accurate. Just because he doesn't look 6'0" doesn't mean he isn't.


You fail for using Whitlock and accurate in the same sentence...

LMAO

booger
12-22-2008, 12:39 AM
if you want to picture squatty/short DT's think James Reed and Lional Dalton. Both were 5-10-11ish and it was obvious on TV. Dorsey doesn't stick out like they did. Tank is listed at 6'2 and i don't see THAT big of differance between the two.

Fruit Ninja
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
We need a new coaching staff no doubt, but i remember when the Chiefs drafted Dorsey at 5, this place went nuts. Everyone was excited. I dont htink i seen anyone not liking the pick at the time.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:40 AM
We need a new coaching staff no doubt, but i remember when the Chiefs drafted Dorsey at 5, this place went nuts. Everyone was excited. I dont htink i seen anyone not liking the pick at the time.

Loved the pick, hated the way we have used/so call developed him on an NFL level...

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 12:42 AM
I'd like to see Rufus take a parting shot at Whitlock over Dorsey's height. You know, ignoring the larger issue.

Fruit Ninja
12-22-2008, 12:47 AM
I dont think i have ever seen anyone say outside of Whitlock that we are using him wrong. This article is the first thing i have seen that points it out.

kcchiefsus
12-22-2008, 12:48 AM
I dont think i have ever seen anyone say outside of Whitlock that we are using him wrong. This article is the first thing i have seen that points it out.

I'm pretty sure i've seen people mention it on here.

lazepoo
12-22-2008, 12:50 AM
If all of the coaches are failing like this, how much of the rest of the roster is misused?

Pablo
12-22-2008, 12:51 AM
I dunno. I stood about a foot away from Dorsey and was underwhelmed at his size as well. He's definitely a built guy, a real stout, brick shithouse type, but I'd say 6' 1 and 3/4 is a pretty generous spot, probably by an inch or so. Not that it really matters anyhow, if the motherf*cker was 5' 9" and the Chiefs knew how to use him he'd still be having a much more impressive season.

We know he has the potential to be dominant, but our coaching staff is f*cking things up. Go figure.

Pablo
12-22-2008, 12:51 AM
I'm pretty sure i've seen people mention it on here.Yeah, plenty of folks on CP have made this point.

chiefsfan4life1978
12-22-2008, 12:52 AM
I am a legit 6' (shoes off) and I've stood right next to Dorsey. The guy was unquestionably taller than me. Also, why the f is height a factor at DT aside from knocking down passes. I didn't ever play D-Line, but I was always lead to believe that leverage and staying low was what playing that position was all about.

Sure-Oz
12-22-2008, 12:58 AM
Doesn't suprise me that our coaching staff has no clue wtf they are doing....

Hope this shit is blown up and we get some real defensive coaches here to help these guys out and get Dorsey going.

jAZ
12-22-2008, 01:01 AM
This is simply inexcusable. Most high school coaches would know better than to use Dorsey the way the Chiefs have this season. Dorsey’s use indicates a level of dysfunction between the coaching staff and personnel department that is mind-boggling.
Is it excusable for a former college OL and full-time, paid football columnist to take 15 games to realize that the #5 overall pick DT is playing less than 6' tall and playing embarassingly out of positiion even while he's beeing destroyed week after week?

booger
12-22-2008, 01:07 AM
You could actually argue against it.(the article)

They are using Dorsey like he was used in college. Except we play 2 gap, LSU is/was 1gap. The excuse is/was he needs to develop his moves and counter moves from a seperation and pass rush standpoint. That's fine but of course he won't develop them if he doesn't play more 3 tech. And in the long run Tyler is more of a 2 technique anyway.

Plus we absolutly suck at DL rotation. That's what we want with 7 sometimes 8 DL active on game day. If they would play Edwards early in the game and give boone more snaps at DT it would give all 4 more equal number of total snaps or close too it keeping the starters fresh in the 4th qt.

But Gun calls the shots on everything on D. Carl gave him control over too much and it showed with allowing him to Coach LB's in a critical year in terms of developement. Herm also pussed out on not calling out Gun to back off and allow Blackmon to coach LB's or get someone else if they thought he was a problem. But it was just Gun wanting more control. Hard for Herm to figure that out as he was never a DC.

A new GM will see this for what it is and gut it. The scheme and coaches, not a major lack of talent outside of DE and LB. And also good play in the secondary, CB's mostly, and that is were the talented coaching is with Gibbs plus Herm giving his .02 as well.

It's not a coincodence that we don't even bother trying to bring in a new LB or two like we did with the influx of DE's we brought in.(Babin, Studebaker, Gilberry) Why waste the time when LB's like Demmorrio don't even get on the field soon enough or get cut like Nap Harris. Sooner it becomes obvious. Why do you think John Bunting has hardly been mentioned by the media or the team? That would be admitting a mistake by Herm/Gun/Carl. And in their own minds they don't admit to mistakes, let alone make them.

Sure-Oz
12-22-2008, 01:09 AM
I love how Haynesworth's backup had 3 sacks and 2 fumble recoveries atleast today

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 01:11 AM
Why do you think John Bunting has hardly been mentioned by the media or the team?

Hell Carl just wanted to siphon off a little more Hunt money for one of his buddies. Might as well sink another well down there before you're cut off.

BigRock
12-22-2008, 01:17 AM
The overall point is well and good, but may be the weakest premise for an article ever. After a season of JWhit bashing Dorsey, after the next to last game we get "So I was in the locker room and this short guy walked past me...".

booger
12-22-2008, 01:19 AM
Hell Carl just wanted to siphon off a little more Hunt money for one of his buddies. Might as well sink another well down there before you're cut off.

What he tried to do is save the D from one of the worst seasons and he failed. One of the few people who he could call that would except is someone he has ties with. A former eagle player from the DV/Carl days. There's an article out there, the only one of them. From some Carolina paper. It's JB saying his old friend Carl needed him to come in to help with the D. That Gun is moving down to the sidelines on gameday and they(Carl) need "a fresh set of eyes". From the article, Bunting only talks like it was Carl who asked him to come in and help out, not Herm.

F#cking histerical when you think of Clark saying only will the new GM come from outside the Org. because we need "a fresh set of eyes"

Swazey
12-22-2008, 01:20 AM
glenn dorsey >>> vernon gholston

Tank and Dorsey should be fine. **fingers' crossed**

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:24 AM
The Jets are retarded and don't even play Gholston....but in fairness here I'm not sure Gholston is a 3-4 guy he looks like Justin Tuck out there not DeMarcus Ware.

booger
12-22-2008, 01:27 AM
Here is the article from when he was brought in. Gun's experiement as DC/LB coach lasted a whole 6 weeks. And then comes the "I need to coach from the sideline" excuse.

Former UNC coach John Bunting now gets his kicks with Chiefs

By Dan Spears
Staff Writer


Published: Friday, October 31, 2008 at 3:30 a.m.
Last Modified: Friday, October 31, 2008 at 12:22 a.m.
Even if it's only his brand new home, John Bunting admits to being a little homesick.

'I miss being back there,' Bunting said of Southeastern North Carolina last week from Kansas City. 'I've already made a lot of friends, got to visit the Topsail football team before they played their games ... they're still undefeated I bet.

'I miss my wife, miss my dog, miss the things I was doing, and I want to get back to them.'

First though, he'll finish the NFL season as a special defensive consultant for the Chiefs, capping a wild 2008 for the former University of North Carolina football coach – move into Pender County house in February, leave a few months later for a summer in Maine, do a couple of college football broadcasts, then take his life halfway across the country for an old friend.

Bunting has known Chiefs general manager Carl Peterson for more than 30 years, dating to his own playing days in the NFL. When Peterson said his team needed a fresh look at its struggling defense, Bunting said he could come help.

'When he asked me to come out to try and help the defense, it's hard to turn him down,' Bunting said.

'Because of the fact that Gunther (Cunningham) has been coaching the linebackers, he wants to be a better coach on game days. He's down on the sideline, so I'm in the box as another pair of eyes to talk with him and (head coach) Herman (Edwards) during the game.'

But when his press-box binoculars aren't focused on the field, he keeps looking back to North Carolina for several reasons.

'I really miss doing the things I started down there,' said Bunting, who's on the board for the Greater Wilmington Sports Hall of Fame and has talked with UNC-Wilmington athletic director Kelly Mehrtens about ways to help the school, but with nothing specific in mind yet.

'The thing that would please me the most would to be able to help the athletes in the Wilmington area,' Bunting said. 'Get their name out there. If that means fundraising,

involved with alumni functions, those are things I enjoy a great deal. ... Nothing that's really been discussed, but it's something they know I'm interested in.'

While that eye is on Wilmington, the other looks at Chapel Hill, where many Tar Heels he recruited as coach from 2001-06 are bowl eligible and soaring under a new staff.

'People can see how good those guys are in Chapel Hill now,' Bunting said. 'I'd seen all their games until coming out here. People will ask me, ‘Have you gotten over it?' Part of me will never get over it. But seeing our players, the guys our staff recruited, play well, gives me a relief.'

That feeling is reinforced by the Chiefs' recent signing of former Hoggard and UNC kicker Connor Barth.

'I knew he'd get (an NFL job), he's got one and now it's all about production,' Bunting said. 'It's gonna be all about him and I have a lot of confidence in him. To see him start the work week, it was a pleasure.'

But in the end, he figures the best feeling will come when he returns to the coast and throws himself into something new.

'I want to do what I want to do. I've done the coaching, I've done that,' Bunting said.

'They say timing is everything. Timing's been a little off in Chapel Hill, and timing's been off a little here. But I know that will happen in time.'


Dan Spears: 343-2038

dan.spears@starnewsonline.com




http://www.starnewsonline.com/article/20081031/ARTICLES/810312994/0/NEWS

Chiefs Pantalones
12-22-2008, 01:32 AM
Watching Dorsey play is saddening. He is completely ineffective.

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 01:35 AM
And never without a clear view of his face. Until Sunday

JWhits never seen Dorsey's headshot?

Swazey
12-22-2008, 01:42 AM
We should have more confidence in the Chiefs than our economy.... Save ya paperstack.

Swazey
12-22-2008, 01:44 AM
Anyway... I'm exited to see what our DLine can do w/o Krumrie...

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2008, 02:19 AM
:clap:Wow.

Swazey
12-22-2008, 03:00 AM
:clap:Wow.

uhhh, I guess..

AustinChief
12-22-2008, 03:30 AM
Once again as I've said forever, Tim Krumrie is one of the worst coaches ever.
Once again (and I hope to God I'm wrong) as we argued over... Jake Long would have been a better pick than Dorsey... BUT I will say in your defense, Dorsey SHOULD be much better if he had been coached and played correctly.

I just felt at the time that Dorsey was a bigger risk compared to Long... as it played out, well after our argument had played itself out... Long was off the table and I was more than happy with getting Dorsey where we did.

Let's agree to hope that better coaching and scheming will allow Dorsey to flourish.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-22-2008, 03:55 AM
Dorsey is 6'1", not 5'11", and he's being coached by the fucking Keystone Cops while playing the hardest position on the defense (when he should be a 3 Tech).

KCJohnny
12-22-2008, 04:03 AM
ROFL

You guys were saying Dorsey was the best pick evah! in the spring. Like Whitlock knows more about deploying DTs than Gun and Herm.

Its great entertainment, but not serious football analysis.

Count Alex's Losses
12-22-2008, 04:06 AM
Like Whitlock knows more about deploying DTs than Gun and Herm.


Gunther is a fraud. So is Herm.

Evidence:

Gunther loved Junior Siavii. Wanted to draft him, big time.

Herm drafted Dewayne Robertson and some other schmo in New York.

The guy that failed Krumrie's retarded slap fight, Sedrick Ellis, has had a much better rookie year than Dorsey. In fact, it's not even close. Of course he's being used in a penetrator role. Watch a Saints game.

All your beloved icons, KCJohnny, are about to get shipped the fuck out of Kansas City.

FringeNC
12-22-2008, 06:51 AM
Gunther and Krumrie are really good coaches because they get in players' faces and scream and drop f-bombs and stuff.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 07:04 AM
ROFL

You guys were saying Dorsey was the best pick evah! in the spring. Like Whitlock knows more about deploying DTs than Gun and Herm.

Its great entertainment, but not serious football analysis.

I'll take Brian Water's comments over anything that comes from Jwhit, or anyone on this staff.

the Talking Can
12-22-2008, 07:08 AM
would be nice if Waters would have passed the info along to our idiot coaching staff

LOCOChief
12-22-2008, 08:07 AM
Is it excusable for a former college OL and full-time, paid football columnist to take 15 games to realize that the #5 overall pick DT is playing less than 6' tall and playing embarassingly out of positiion even while he's beeing destroyed week after week?

FACT Dorsey is actually 6'1"+ and Whitlock is a racist dick!

Ebolapox
12-22-2008, 08:09 AM
I dont think i have ever seen anyone say outside of Whitlock that we are using him wrong. This article is the first thing i have seen that points it out.

a lot of us on here have been saying it for a while.

Rausch
12-22-2008, 08:23 AM
Herm got more draft picks, more talent, more FAIL.

Gun got more talent, more draft picks, more FAIL.

Crummy got talent year after year, mostly draft picks, more FAIL.

I was as big a Gun fan as anyone here but I see no ligitimate reason why any of these three gentlemen should be retained...

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 08:27 AM
People on this board have been saying this since the start of the season, yet it takes a reporter to notice it 16 weeks later? The media in KC blows.

I don't have the inclination to search for it, but I distinctly recall an article shortly after Dorsey was drafted where Gun was ecstatic about Dorsey and talked about letting Dorsey loose to create havoc in the backfield and to use him in the manner that Whitlock describes. Something obviously happened between the time the kid was drafted and what would eventually transpire on the field.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 08:57 AM
The opinion on Dorsey's play isn't ground-breaking; we've been saying this for weeks. Dorsey is the best 3-tech DT prospect since Sapp, and stupidly we're not playing him in the 3-tech. If completely misusing the #5 overall prospect isn't enough to can every coach that has had anything to do with the team this year, I'm not sure what is.

Also, as others have mentioned, Dorsey measured in at over 6'1" at his pro day. You'd think a journalist would know how to use Google by now. F'n moron.

I can't wait until we get a GM and staff that has a clue.

Tuckdaddy
12-22-2008, 09:04 AM
FIRE THEM ALL TODAY!

DJ's left nut
12-22-2008, 09:19 AM
Dorsey's getting doubled nearly every play.

If he's lining up over the guard and then being doubled, he just has absolutely nowhere to go and there's nothing he's going to be able to do about it.

It's a combination of poor use and lack of help from his DEs. He's not a bust and we'll see him break out big next year if we are able to add a pass rusher at RDE.

Rausch
12-22-2008, 09:21 AM
Dorsey's getting doubled nearly every play.


No, he's not...

Dave Lane
12-22-2008, 09:27 AM
Yep, I got the same measurement from nfldraftscout.com. Now I am not debating the premise of this article, yes the Chiefs are using Dorsey wrong.

My argument really is pointless, but at the very least Whitlock should be accurate. Just because he doesn't look 6'0" doesn't mean he isn't.

Maybe after the beating he has taken this season he is 5' 11"

xbarretx
12-22-2008, 09:32 AM
The opinion on Dorsey's play isn't ground-breaking; we've been saying this for weeks. Dorsey is the best 3-tech DT prospect since Sapp, and stupidly we're not playing him in the 3-tech. If completely misusing the #5 overall prospect isn't enough to can every coach that has had anything to do with the team this year, I'm not sure what is.

Also, as others have mentioned, Dorsey measured in at over 6'1" at his pro day. You'd think a journalist would know how to use Google by now. F'n moron.

I can't wait until we get a GM and staff that has a clue.

Rep!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

DJ's left nut
12-22-2008, 09:39 AM
No, he's not...

I watched him nearly every play for the last several games, they're putting a rolling double team on the DTs because both ends can be handled man-up easily. 3 guys are crashing the interior line and they slide protection over to whichever DT is getting through first. That is often Dorsey and as soon as he starts to get push, he's getting doubled.

Yes, he's getting doubled and getting doubled often.

Groves
12-22-2008, 09:41 AM
We're keeping Dorsey a secret on purpose, sequestering him away by lining him straight up. No since dropping our draft position by having him singlehandedly winning games for us until the rebuild is nearing completion. Print em in 2009!

HemiEd
12-22-2008, 09:45 AM
Why do you think John Bunting has hardly been mentioned by the media or the team? That would be admitting a mistake by Herm/Gun/Carl. And in their own minds they don't admit to mistakes, let alone make them.

Isn't John Bunting the guy that highly recommended Ryan Sims?

Rausch
12-22-2008, 09:53 AM
I watched him nearly every play for the last several games, they're putting a rolling double team on the DTs because both ends can be handled man-up easily. 3 guys are crashing the interior line and they slide protection over to whichever DT is getting through first. That is often Dorsey and as soon as he starts to get push, he's getting doubled.

Yes, he's getting doubled and getting doubled often.

If you'd been watching him you'd have noticed how often Gun has been blitzing (on 2nd and 3rd and long) to compensate for the lack of pass rush and how Dorsey hasn't been doing $3it when he isn't doubled.

And for the record I don't blame him or question his talent. He isn't the only talent wasted by this lackluster staff...

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 09:59 AM
When you look at all the high DL picks and how they're working it's pretty obvious they don't know how to coach any of them.


This is something I actually have agreed with you on. Even back to Simms

blueballs
12-22-2008, 10:36 AM
Fatlock has an ego that will be his doom
he makes it sound like Dorsey coward(shrank) in his presense
don't eat Whitlock's shit on Dorsey

Mr. Laz
12-22-2008, 10:37 AM
didnt Whitlock actually play Dline at Ball state?


just sayin' :shrug:

Brock
12-22-2008, 10:40 AM
didnt Whitlock actually play Dline at Ball state?


just sayin' :shrug:

I thought he was a guard or something.

Mr. Laz
12-22-2008, 10:42 AM
I thought he was a guard or something.
maybe so ...... i dunno

either way he has SOME experience in the trenches

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 10:53 AM
This is something I actually have agreed with you on. Even back to Simms

Different coaches.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 10:58 AM
The indictments keep piling up.
This administration is over.

Spare no one Clark.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 10:59 AM
The indictments keep piling up.
This administration is over.

Spare no one Clark.

This.

RINGLEADER
12-22-2008, 11:01 AM
I bet this article made Gunther cuss a little.

Extra Point
12-22-2008, 11:02 AM
Whitlock's been gnawing on Dorsey for the past few weeks. Herm needs to be canned, so he can gnaw on a new bone.

ping2000
12-22-2008, 11:05 AM
I bet this article made Gunther cuss a little.

Gunther can read? I don't think so. I don't think he would get the article if someone read it to him. He might grunt a little. The guy is a fucking moron.

xbarretx
12-22-2008, 11:11 AM
Gunther can read? I don't think so. I don't think he would get the article if someone read it to him. He might grunt a little. The guy is a ****ing moron.

if he can read he should read this (sorry its sorta wordy but it really helps me understand a major issue with our defensive scheme in regards to our DT's .. Dorsey in particular)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Defensive_tackle#Types_of_Tackles


Types of Tackles

The linemen on the offensive line up a few feet away from each other. This leaves gaps between the linemen. These gaps are both lettered and numbered. The gap between the guard and tackle is called the B gap. If you are a defensive tackle lined up in the B gap, but shifted over a bit towards the guard, you're called a 3-technique. If you were lined up in the same gap but shifted over a couple feet to line up on the tackle's shoulder, you would be a 4i-technique. If you lined up head up on the tackle, you would be considered a 4-Technique. The "i" stands for inside shade. Head-up techniques are always even-numbered, and Odd numbered techniques on the outside shoulder are odd-numbered. However, if you are shaded inside of the offensive lineman you are on, you keep the even number and just put the "i" beside the number. The only exception to this rule is on the center. This is because there is no inside or outside shade of the center. If you line up on any shade of the center, you are considered to be in a 1-technique. If you line up directly facing the center, you're called a nose tackle or a 0-technique.

Nose tackles are either two-gap players (in a 3-4 scheme) or 1-technique players (in most 4-3 schemes) and are typically very big and very strong men. These guys have the responsibility of clogging up the entire center of the field, of keeping the center and at least one guard busy, and thereby protecting their middle linebacker. The nose tackle will also be responsible in passing plays to push the center back towards the quarterback so that the quarterback cannot step up in the pocket and evade the rush of the defensive ends. A good nose tackle can be hit simultaneously by 650 pounds of center and guard and will not budge as much as one inch.

Occasionally, a defensive scheme will ask both defensive tackles to essentially play as nose tackles, one trying to occupy both the center and a guard, and the other trying to occupy the opposite guard and the corresponding tackle. If successful, this leaves a tight end trying to block a defensive end on one side, and the other tackle left to block the other defensive end, leaving the responsibility to blocking the three linebackers, be it if they are blitzing a pass or preventing a run, to the running backs. This strategy requires two nose tackles who either are very good at two-gap play or two defensive tackles that can successfully clog the gap they are assigned, and two athletic ends who can beat a blocker to the outside for pass rush, but can be very effective if the talent is there. This style was the preferred defensive scheme of the 2000 Baltimore Ravens, a top-5 defensive team of all time and the best defense at stopping the run in the modern era.

A 3-technique tackle lines up between the offensive guard and tackle. A 3-technique tackle is supposed to run through his gap immediately while being alert for different schemes such as trap and sweep and things of the like. He is a B-Gap player. He also has to be able to think very quickly and react to anything as if it is instinct. His job is not to block or get tied up in a block, but rather to be athletic and get himself into the offensive backfield and disrupt their plans. Because of this a 3-technique tackle is a lighter, more athletic guy than a nose tackle. Famous D-Lines: Noah Kjos Thoresen Ole Andreas Dalsbř

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 12:23 PM
Different coaches.

when we let him go krummie was here

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:24 PM
This staff just has no idea how to use players, they've been asking Pollard to do things he can't do for 3 years....

Extra Point
12-22-2008, 12:26 PM
This staff just has no idea how to use players, they've been asking Pollard to do things he can't do for 3 years....

Like read, square up, wrap, and tackle?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:27 PM
Like read, square up, wrap, and tackle?

I would bet money that if Bernard Pollard had been drafted by the Colts he'd have been playing LB.

Asking Bernard Pollard to cover deep middle would be like asking a plumber to fix your car.

When you ask guys to do things they can't do, that's on the coaches not the players.

CupidStunt
12-22-2008, 12:27 PM
Funny to see Jason Jones come in, albeit against a shit OL, and get 3.5 sacks in one game.

Watch the highlights. You'll instantly notice the position he lines up in and you'll note that Dorsey hasn't lined up like that ONCE ALL SEASON (at least that I've seen). That pass-rushing twist position on the shoulder of the guard.

Beyond pathetic what they've done to Dorsey. I'm not excusing him completely, and he needs to get stronger and more powerful at the point of attack, but a new coach -- assuming we get a good one -- will come in here and actually put Dorsey in position to play like a disruptive three-tech. DT.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 12:29 PM
I would bet money that if Bernard Pollard had been drafted by the Colts he'd have been playing LB.

Asking Bernard Pollard to cover deep middle would be like asking a plumber to fix your car.

When you ask guys to do things they can't do, that's on the coaches not the players.


did you see how great a job Morgan did yesterday?

Extra Point
12-22-2008, 12:29 PM
I would bet money that if Bernard Pollard had been drafted by the Colts he'd have been playing LB.

Asking Bernard Pollard to cover deep middle would be like asking a plumber to fix your car.

When you ask guys to do things they can't do, that's on the coaches not the players.

Agreed. Pollard has an OLB build. Putting him there in camp would make sense.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:30 PM
did you see how great a job Morgan did yesterday?

Great, let him play he's got about 5 minutes of playing time. Pollard has 3 years and we know exactly what he can and can't do and this team repeatedly asks him to do things he can't do.

lazepoo
12-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Agreed. Pollard has an OLB build. Putting him there in camp would make sense.

Pollard needs to learn proper tackling technique if he's going to survive as an OLB, but I could see him playing a Cato June type role.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Great, let him play he's got about 5 minutes of playing time. Pollard has 3 years and we know exactly what he can and can't do and this team repeatedly asks him to do things he can't do.

You didn't watch the game did you?

suds79
12-22-2008, 12:32 PM
What blows my mind is the inability of the defensive staff (well check that. I'm not surprised) to make changes on the fly.

Chan Gailey implemented a brand new style of play to fit our 3rd string QB. And you're telling me that Gun & Herm couldn't do the same with all those 1st day picks on that side of the ball?

It's really sad. I just hope the new coach & DC and work with Dorsey before it's too late.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 12:32 PM
I would bet money that if Bernard Pollard had been drafted by the Colts he'd have been playing LB.

Asking Bernard Pollard to cover deep middle would be like asking a plumber to fix your car.

When you ask guys to do things they can't do, that's on the coaches not the players.

After his rookie season I suggested they should move him to LB because IMHO he is to slow to play safety especially in the Cover 2.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:33 PM
You didn't watch the game did you?

He's a rookie right? Isn't it better to see if he can do it instead of asking a guy to do something you know for a fact he can't do? The teams 2-13 who gives a fuck if a rookie makes a mistake, see if he gets better.

And Pollard is actually bigger than Cato June.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 12:37 PM
He's a rookie right? Isn't it better to see if he can do it instead of asking a guy to do something you know for a fact he can't do? The teams 2-13 who gives a **** if a rookie makes a mistake, see if he gets better.

And Pollard is actually bigger than Cato June.


so, are you saying you didn't watch the game?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:38 PM
What the fuck point are you even trying to make?

Maybe you can neg rep me again over your inability to make a point or understand much cause you know I care about my rep!

Brock
12-22-2008, 12:39 PM
What the **** point are you even trying to make?

Maybe you can neg rep me again over your inability to make a point or understand much cause you know I care about my rep!

You're saying bad things about the Chiefs, it offends the homers.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 12:39 PM
so, are you saying you didn't watch the game?

I only caught part of it does Morgan suck worse than Pollard or is he better?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:41 PM
I only caught part of it does Morgan suck worse than Pollard or is he better?

Even if he's worse now, as a rookie you'd think he'd improve where Pollard has been in the league 3 years now...

And I'm not even saying anything bad about the Chiefs, how is saying putting a player in a position that plays to his weaknesses saying anything bad. It just stresses how stupid the coaching staff is.

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 12:43 PM
Isn't John Bunting the guy that highly recommended Ryan Sims?

Yes.

He was his college coach at North Carolina.

He was fired shortly thereafter.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
What the **** point are you even trying to make?

Maybe you can neg rep me again over your inability to make a point or understand much cause you know I care about my rep!

If you don't care about your rep why are you looking at it?

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 12:45 PM
Even if he's worse now, as a rookie you'd think he'd improve where Pollard has been in the league 3 years now...

And I'm not even saying anything bad about the Chiefs, how is saying putting a player in a position that plays to his weaknesses saying anything bad. It just stresses how stupid the coaching staff is.

I understand what you are saying and I agree with you.

So did anyone see Morgan play yesterday and how did he do?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:46 PM
If you don't care about your rep why are you looking at it?

I like to see the retard comments I get, maybe they'll involve thinking Tyler Thigpen is better than Carson Palmer.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 12:46 PM
Yes.

He was his college coach at North Carolina.

He was fired shortly thereafter.

He needs to be retained since Peppers might be a FA.

Peppers, Sims, Bunting. Championship.

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 12:47 PM
Considering that most of the college scouts felt that Dorsey was the most talented and best prospect in the 2008 draft, it's safe to say that he's been a disappointment.

Bust? No way. Is it his fault? Nope, it's the defensive staff is to blame.

Hopefully, it's just more fuel for the fire. I hope at very least, 95% of the defensive staff is fired next Monday. The only guy who should even possibly have a job is David Gibbs.

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 12:50 PM
What the fuck point are you even trying to make?



Coffey asked you a simple question: Did you watch the game?

I've asked you to join us in the game chat. The discussion there is generally extremely high-level but to date, you haven't.

I just think that people are questioning your actual involvement and whether or not you're just making biased opinions based on forum threads.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:51 PM
Oh yes I'm sure I don't watch the games....

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 12:53 PM
Oh yes I'm sure I don't watch the games....

Why are you so flippant when asked? It's a simple question and very valid. There are a lot of members on the 'Planet that don't get to watch each and every game. Many only listen on the radio. Some get their info from the game thread.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:56 PM
I think it's pretty obvious I watch all the games....I could completely rail people who don't watch anyone but the Chiefs play then have a skewed player view but I try to avoid doing that.

BigRedChief
12-22-2008, 12:57 PM
Hmmmmm....

http://www.profootballcentral.com/2008/03/26/glenn-dorsey-pro-day-results/

He measured in at 6-foot-1 3/4 and 297 pounds.
I'm 6'2". Tony G is listed at 6'8". Do you think he's 6 inches taller than me? Maybe 6'6" but no way he's 6'8".
http://eteamz.active.com/lscardinals/images/DougandTony.jpg

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
What the **** point are you even trying to make?

Maybe you can neg rep me again over your inability to make a point or understand much cause you know I care about my rep!


have I personally attacked you, or your father (or grandfather)? in anyway, I asked because I wanted to talk about a few things I noticed, you never answered, but somehow I'm the tard that doesn't get it.

DJ's left nut
12-22-2008, 01:00 PM
Pollard can play SS and do so at a high level.

He can't do it in a cover-2 where he's asked to essentially be a FS.

Yet again, this coaching staff doesn't have a clue what to do with its talent. Fire them all.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 01:02 PM
I only caught part of it does Morgan suck worse than Pollard or is he better?

yes, he missed a few tackles and missed coverage on a deep pass, giving up a touchdown.

maybe he's not showing enough improvement in the film room and practice field. But what I see right now is he may need more work. Pollard is doing a better job.

Does pollard fit in as a LB? I don't know. Mecca was all over Morgan after we drafted him, somehow Herm must have heard about that and has decided not to play Morgan, just to piss off Mecca.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 01:03 PM
I like to see the retard comments I get, maybe they'll involve thinking Tyler Thigpen is better than Carson Palmer.


you reap what you sow. these are the seeds you plant.


I think it's pretty obvious I watch all the games....I could completely rail people who don't watch anyone but the Chiefs play then have a skewed player view but I try to avoid doing that.


It's not OBVIOUS you watch all the games, and even so, I was asking you if you watched this one game. I wanted to talk to you about it, because it pertained to what you were talking about in this thread. Not because it was bad about a chief, or that I'm a homer (brock = pussy). But I actually try to engage in real conversations with you. But you can't do it. You must be sometype of bot or something. We must have reached the end of your programmed responses.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:06 PM
you reap what you sow. these are the seeds you plant.

So I cause people to be retarded?

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:09 PM
I'm 6'2". Tony G is listed at 6'8". Do you think he's 6 inches taller than me? Maybe 6'6" but no way he's 6'8".
http://eteamz.active.com/lscardinals/images/DougandTony.jpg

Tony isnt 6'8.

crazycoffey
12-22-2008, 01:13 PM
So I cause people to be retarded?


you will when you reproduce....

Demonpenz
12-22-2008, 01:15 PM
Height being shorter would help him get under blocks and shoot under tackles. He is soooo slow off the ball. Everyone else on the line has taken a step before dorsey takes a step (ususally backwards>!>!>) That is all before he gets swallowed up.

chiefsfan4life1978
12-22-2008, 03:29 PM
I'm 6'2". Tony G is listed at 6'8". Do you think he's 6 inches taller than me? Maybe 6'6" but no way he's 6'8".


Dude, where have you seen Tony listed at 6'8". Get on the NFL's official site and he's listed at 6'5". So that would make your picture pretty accurate. I am in no way an expert but I can say with great certainty that the NFL doesn't exagerate player's height.

Sully
12-22-2008, 03:56 PM
Thing is, in college Dorsey played a 2-gap. For whatever reason, he hasn't adjusted to playing 1-gap. The extent of Krumrie's coaching is for him to yell at the guys, "Get off the ball!" at the top of his lungs. I honestly think he doesn't know how to teach defensive line. He was a tough SOB when he played, but has any D-lineman gotten appreciably better in his tenure?

When I watch Ellis, it's clear he has been/is being taught how to rush the passer. His hand movement is working, his feet are going. Dorsey seems to just lock onto a guy and try to bull him, like he did in college. To me, that's all coaching. He hasn't figured out to try and get to an edge or a shoulder, and work through half a man, rather than the whole man. Again...I put this 100% on coaching. DOrsey is quick as hell. He's got a motor, but he has no one to teach him how to make the jump from the SEC where he could dominate inferior opponents, to the NFL, where he's going up against the best.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 04:01 PM
Thing is, in college Dorsey played a 2-gap. For whatever reason, he hasn't adjusted to playing 1-gap. The extent of Krumrie's coaching is for him to yell at the guys, "Get off the ball!" at the top of his lungs. I honestly think he doesn't know how to teach defensive line. He was a tough SOB when he played, but has any D-lineman gotten appreciably better in his tenure?

When I watch Ellis, it's clear he has been/is being taught how to rush the passer. His hand movement is working, his feet are going. Dorsey seems to just lock onto a guy and try to bull him, like he did in college. To me, that's all coaching. He hasn't figured out to try and get to an edge or a shoulder, and work through half a man, rather than the whole man. Again...I put this 100% on coaching. DOrsey is quick as hell. He's got a motor, but he has no one to teach him how to make the jump from the SEC where he could dominate inferior opponents, to the NFL, where he's going up against the best.

It's like Waters said, he's playing over the guard, and Ellis is playing the 3 tech, and getting penetration. It's all coaching. How funny is it that a bunch of message board posters have a better idea of how to use our first pick than our coaches?

That is just disgusting.

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2008, 04:06 PM
I'm 6'2". Tony G is listed at 6'8". Do you think he's 6 inches taller than me? Maybe 6'6" but no way he's 6'8".
http://eteamz.active.com/lscardinals/images/DougandTony.jpgI've never seen TG listed any higher than 6'5". Usually 6'4". I'd imagine he's only 6'3".

Sully
12-22-2008, 04:06 PM
It's like Waters said, he's playing over the guard, and Ellis is playing the 3 tech, and getting penetration. It's all coaching. How funny is it that a bunch of message board posters have a better idea of how to use our first pick than our coaches?

That is just disgusting.

From what I've watched, he's actually lining up in the "3."
But at the snap, he's going back to his instinct, and going head-to-head with the guard. It's close to what I'd call a "2" (head up), but he actually has been on the shoulder, rather than nose to nose. But like I said, at the snap, he's simply crashing into his guy...and he's being coached to do so.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 04:12 PM
From what I've watched, he's actually lining up in the "3."
But at the snap, he's going back to his instinct, and going head-to-head with the guard. It's close to what I'd call a "2" (head up), but he actually has been on the shoulder, rather than nose to nose. But like I said, at the snap, he's simply crashing into his guy...and he's being coached to do so.

Have you also noticed that we hardly ever run any stunts, or twists?

Oh, and they definitely have him playing 2 gaps most of the time.

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 04:13 PM
It's really sad. I just hope the new coach & DC and work with Dorsey before it's too late.

Can it be "too late"?

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 04:24 PM
Can it be "too late"?

It can be, but it's not.

B_Ambuehl
12-22-2008, 05:55 PM
I think the reason for the way Dorsey is being used is due to what was mentioned in the article. Dorsey has looked heavy and slow all year long and this article confirms it. They evaluated a 297 pound defensive tackle who is now playing at 315. You can't ask an overweight defensive tackle to be your 3 technique when you have another young first day pick in Tank Tyler who has spent the last year and a half really working on his conditioning and weight who is doing a better job at that position. I imagine the only reason Dorsey is even starting at all is because he was a top 5 pick. Ron Edwards is a better 2 gapper at this point.

Sully
12-22-2008, 06:08 PM
Tank Tyler has been working on his weight?

What?

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 06:21 PM
No, he's not...

better watch the last couple of weeks again, 80% are doubles as far sa i can tell esp. against the chargers

Mr. Laz
12-22-2008, 06:54 PM
Can it be "too late"?
hell yes it can be too late


many players never recover from shitty coaching and being a shitty team at the beginning of their career.

especially Quarterbacks


that said it's only been 1 season so i doubt Dorsey is ruined.

Demonpenz
12-23-2008, 03:08 PM
maybe with him being smaller he could play 3-4

rtmike
12-23-2008, 03:41 PM
If not Dorsey, who? Gholston hasn't exactly been tearing the league up.

I don't know, trade down, maybe Sedrick Ellis?

The defense needs a "Chan Gailey". Someone who takes what he's dealt with and schemes them to succeed. Chicken salad out of chicken shit.

Hindsight's a bitch.