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RippedmyFlesh
12-22-2008, 09:34 AM
Hunt’s master plan, we’re told, will then be for the new GM to make the ultimate decision on the team’s head coach.

That said, word is Hunt could be leaning toward retaining Edwards, who has a year left on his contract, and convincing whoever is hired as the GM to stick with Edwards and give him one more year to possibly earn himself a long-term reprieve. We also hear Edwards has substantial support from his current players.

Those rumblings, however, haven’t stopped some league sources from predicting that Edwards is as good as gone.

“Herm (Edwards) is out,” one executive insider told PFW. “He brought in all those college coaches (from Georgia Tech) and ran out some good ones. (Former Chiefs RB coach) James Saxon played in the league. He had Larry (Johnson) running angry and out of control. He’s doing the same thing down in Miami with the cast they have there. College coaches can’t handle these guys. But Herm ran Saxon out.”

Maybe herm thought with all the young players a college atmosphere would work?:shrug:

Added a longtime pro talent evaluator: “Herm is always in the news, talking about nothing. Just say your team is not playing good. He’s always blaming and pointing the finger. Good (leaders) take the blame.”

Not surprisingly, the potentially potent parlay of Patriots VP of player personnel Scott Pioli, who is rumored to be in line for any of a number of GM openings, and former Steelers head coach and Chiefs assistant Bill Cowher has been generating a healthy buzz in K.C.

But, as one team insider explained it: “The only problem is (the defense’s) 4-3 scheme. If you bring in a guy who is a 3-4 guy (like) Cowher or Pioli, it could run off talent.

“The team drafted (DT Glenn) Dorsey and (DE Tamba) Hali — two of the last four top picks would become obsolete. It would just set back the franchise even further. Those things should be considered, but who says they will be?

“Look at when (Eric) Mangini came to the Jets. They were a 4-3 scheme. They ran off (John) Abraham and (Jonathan) Vilma and (Dewayne) Robertson. That’s three first-round picks off your ‘D.’ It’s hard to replace that production. … You run off talent, and you’re not going to find anything like it on the street.”

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/WWHI/2008/wwhi122208.htm

Brock
12-22-2008, 09:38 AM
Pioli is a "3-4 guy"? rolleyes

MVChiefFan
12-22-2008, 09:39 AM
Hunt’s master plan, we’re told, will then be for the new GM to make the ultimate decision on the team’s head coach.

That said, word is Hunt could be leaning toward retaining Edwards, who has a year left on his contract, and convincing whoever is hired as the GM to stick with Edwards and give him one more year to possibly earn himself a long-term reprieve. We also hear Edwards has substantial support from his current players.

Those rumblings, however, haven’t stopped some league sources from predicting that Edwards is as good as gone.

“Herm (Edwards) is out,” one executive insider told PFW. “He brought in all those college coaches (from Georgia Tech) and ran out some good ones. (Former Chiefs RB coach) James Saxon played in the league. He had Larry (Johnson) running angry and out of control. He’s doing the same thing down in Miami with the cast they have there. College coaches can’t handle these guys. But Herm ran Saxon out.”

Maybe herm thought with all the young players a college atmosphere would work?:shrug:

Added a longtime pro talent evaluator: “Herm is always in the news, talking about nothing. Just say your team is not playing good. He’s always blaming and pointing the finger. Good (leaders) take the blame.”

Not surprisingly, the potentially potent parlay of Patriots VP of player personnel Scott Pioli, who is rumored to be in line for any of a number of GM openings, and former Steelers head coach and Chiefs assistant Bill Cowher has been generating a healthy buzz in K.C.

But, as one team insider explained it: “The only problem is (the defense’s) 4-3 scheme. If you bring in a guy who is a 3-4 guy (like) Cowher or Pioli, it could run off talent.

“The team drafted (DT Glenn) Dorsey and (DE Tamba) Hali — two of the last four top picks would become obsolete. It would just set back the franchise even further. Those things should be considered, but who says they will be?

“Look at when (Eric) Mangini came to the Jets. They were a 4-3 scheme. They ran off (John) Abraham and (Jonathan) Vilma and (Dewayne) Robertson. That’s three first-round picks off your ‘D.’ It’s hard to replace that production. … You run off talent, and you’re not going to find anything like it on the street.”

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+Way+We+Hear+It/WWHI/2008/wwhi122208.htm


WHAT?! I can say with 100% confidence that if we run off Hali he won't go to the Falcons and be a pro bowler.

blueballs
12-22-2008, 09:41 AM
If Hunt tells Herm he's done too early
he will try to save face and get another HC gig
by running players in the ground ala LJ

RippedmyFlesh
12-22-2008, 09:43 AM
Pioli is a "3-4 guy"? rolleyes
I don't think he's married to it either.
He seems too smart to me to be "scheme stubborn".

RippedmyFlesh
12-22-2008, 09:48 AM
If Hunt tells Herm he's done too early
he will try to save face and get another HC gig
by running players in the ground ala LJ

Not that I think he should or anything but I think he gets 1 more shot from someone.
I am not saying he would be better than anyone he replaced but there will be 1 owner who thinks so.

blueballs
12-22-2008, 09:50 AM
Not that I think he should or anything but I think he gets 1 more shot from someone.
I am not saying he would be better than anyone he replaced but there will be 1 owner who thinks so.

He can give a nice hand job
with words
you're probably right

Chief_in_Commander
12-22-2008, 09:56 AM
I don't think changing our scheme that runs off Tamba Hali is something devastating to the franchise.

RippedmyFlesh
12-22-2008, 10:09 AM
I don't think changing our scheme that runs off Tamba Hali is something devastating to the franchise.
I agree.
It doesn't matter what scheme is used alot of work has to be done anyways.

raybec 4
12-22-2008, 10:12 AM
Using the Jets as an example of changing scheme is not a bad thing to me.
They did lose some guys but, Mangini took over when Herm left. They have been in contention for their divsion title all year so is that really what you don't want to do?

RippedmyFlesh
12-22-2008, 10:15 AM
Using the Jets as an example of changing scheme is not a bad thing to me.
They did lose some guys but, Mangini took over when Herm left. They have been in contention for their divsion title all year so is that really what you don't want to do?
I would be up for ANY scheme that gets us off the bottom of the heap.
I do get envious watching a good 3-4 though but thats just taste not a right or wrong issue.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 10:21 AM
That is what scares me about someone as stubborn as Cowher....

Could for once we adapt to the players and not force stubborn styles on the franchise?

RedThat
12-22-2008, 10:23 AM
Is Tamba Hali a FA after this year?

rookie contracts are 3 years right?

Extra Point
12-22-2008, 10:34 AM
I suffered throught the CBS broadcast, but a comment made about Miami's D from Randy Cross indicated that Miami rotated personnel quite a bit, to keep fresh legs on the field. What about our depth? #94 (Babin) and #97 (Johnston) have been let-downs at DE. Suffer throught this: http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80bc7471&campaign=ec0009

King_Chief_Fan
12-22-2008, 11:33 AM
Coming in to clean up Herms mess is a dream come true for some coaches. You don't have to do much to make an improvement over what he has done.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 11:36 AM
Coming in to clean up Herms mess is a dream come true for some coaches. You don't have to do much to make an improvement over what he has done.

Very good way to look at it.. And with the cap space, a new GM could make a few FA moves with next years draft and by cutting some of the WTF roster players, this team could easily win 8 games or more...

milkman
12-22-2008, 06:33 PM
Using the Jets as an example of changing scheme is not a bad thing to me.
They did lose some guys but, Mangini took over when Herm left. They have been in contention for their divsion title all year so is that really what you don't want to do?

The thing here is this.

Clark Hunt has stated that whoever he hires to be the GM would have to be someone that believes, like he does, in building the team through the draft.

If he hires someone that is tied to bringing a 34 defense to KC, then not only is Glen Dorsey a wasted (top 5) pick (as in Tamba, but wtf cares), almost every other player in the front 7 is absolutely useless, and you have to blow it all up and start all over.

That may not be a bad thing if you believe that everyone in that front 7 is wasted roster space, as many do.

However, if you believe that there are some players there that have some upside with good coaching, then throwing all of them away to install a new scheme would be a damn shame.

bowener
12-22-2008, 06:46 PM
Pioli is a "3-4 guy"? rolleyes

I would imagine any good GM or head coach may have personal preferences, but I think they would at least realize that if they don't have the players for a particular scheme, they adapt and run a different scheme until they can get enough of their players on the team to make the transition easier. Watching the Pats play, it would seem they could run just about any style of O or D they want.

edit:

The team drafted (DT Glenn) Dorsey and (DE Tamba) Hali — two of the last four top picks would become obsolete. It would just set back the franchise even further. Those things should be considered, but who says they will be?

Who is to say they aren't basically obsolete already?

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2008, 07:04 PM
Pioli is a "3-4 guy"? rolleyesYeah, that doesn't make any sense.

BigMeatballDave
12-22-2008, 07:08 PM
Is Tamba Hali a FA after this year?

rookie contracts are 3 years right?I don't think there is any such thing as a 'rookie contract', per se. That said, I don't know the length of his contract.

aturnis
12-22-2008, 07:24 PM
Hali is signed through 2010.

jjjayb
12-22-2008, 08:12 PM
“The team drafted (DT Glenn) Dorsey and (DE Tamba) Hali — two of the last four top picks would become obsolete. It would just set back the franchise even further.

Further back than the 30th ranked defense? Dropping two spots to last wouldn't be that big of a set back.

NFL16
12-22-2008, 08:51 PM
The thing here is this.

Clark Hunt has stated that whoever he hires to be the GM would have to be someone that believes, like he does, in building the team through the draft.

If he hires someone that is tied to bringing a 34 defense to KC, then not only is Glen Dorsey a wasted (top 5) pick (as in Tamba, but wtf cares), almost every other player in the front 7 is absolutely useless, and you have to blow it all up and start all over.

That may not be a bad thing if you believe that everyone in that front 7 is wasted roster space, as many do.

However, if you believe that there are some players there that have some upside with good coaching, then throwing all of them away to install a new scheme would be a damn shame.

Very good point.

Do you believe we have a talented enough front 7 that can be coached up so we can stay in the 4-3?

milkman
12-22-2008, 09:04 PM
Further back than the 30th ranked defense? Dropping two spots to last wouldn't be that big of a set back.

He's not talking about D ranking.

He's talking about blowing up the defensive roster again and starting all over because you have to now draft players that fit the new scheme.

milkman
12-22-2008, 09:07 PM
Very good point.

Do you believe we have a talented enough front 7 that can be coached up so we can stay in the 4-3?

I really think there are only three players in the front 7 that have any real potential.

So blowing it up and starting all over wouldn't really be that big.

J Diddy
12-22-2008, 09:08 PM
Very good point.

Do you believe we have a talented enough front 7 that can be coached up so we can stay in the 4-3?

probably need 3 more players

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 09:10 PM
Would Dorsey really be that bad of 3-4 DE? I don't think so, but DL is probably the position I know the least about, and I do know that it wouldn't be the best position for him, but I don't think he would be that horrible there.

Count Zarth
12-22-2008, 09:12 PM
Would Dorsey really be that bad of 3-4 DE? I don't think so, but DL is probably the position I know the least about, and I do know that it wouldn't be the best position for him, but I don't think he would be that horrible there.

I think he'd be pretty average as a 3-4 DE.

Do we really want to take our top five pick and turn him into an average player?

whoman69
12-22-2008, 09:16 PM
I hardly think it matters one iota which scheme a GM prefers. I've never heard of a GM telling his head coach what scheme to run. Does that mean he can't spot talent for a 4-3?

I'm glad we're not the only ones who notice that Herm cannot face the music when it comes to the blame game.

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 09:20 PM
I really think there are only three players in the front 7 that have any real potential.

So blowing it up and starting all over wouldn't really be that big.

DJ, Dorsey, Tyler?

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 09:20 PM
I don't think there is any such thing as a 'rookie contract', per se. That said, I don't know the length of his contract.

Yes, there is a rookie contract for players who are drafted.

Most sign 4-year contracts. First rounders generally sign a 5 year contract (or longer) to spread out the cap hit.

Undrafted free-agents generally sign 3 year contracts.

After the fourth season, a player becomes a restricted free agent.

After his fifth year, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, unless a new contract is negotiated.

Hali signed a 5 year deal.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 09:22 PM
Yes, there is a rookie contract for players who are drafted.

Most sign 4-year contracts. First rounders generally sign a 5 year contract (or longer) to spread out the cap hit.

Undrafted free-agents generally sign 3 year contracts.

After the fourth season, a player becomes a restricted free agent.

After his fifth year, he becomes an unrestricted free agent, unless a new contract is negotiated.

Hali signed a 5 year deal.

You sure?

booger
12-22-2008, 09:27 PM
Running off those coaches had to happen anyway. Solari might be a OC again one day but it wasn't going to happen here. Matsko needed to go but is doing well with the ravens. Same with Joiner going to SD. I would have liked to see them keep Saxon but i like Curtis Modkins and think he has done well.

With Chan coming in it was natural to bring in new faces and ideas in the rest of teh offensive staff.

And Larry Johnson Sr. couldn't get LJ to perform any better than he did or motivate him better. His problems are off the field and his fat paycheck. Anyone who can't see that....... it's obvious.

milkman
12-22-2008, 09:28 PM
DJ, Dorsey, Tyler?

I was thinking of Dorsey, Tank, and Turk as a rotational player.

I'm not sure that DJ hasn't passed the stage that he can't be coached up any longer.

booger
12-22-2008, 09:40 PM
I agree with the view of herm not taking responsibility and defending his staff too much. Most coaches will defend their asst's no matter what until the season is over even if they have thoughts about making changes. But i would think it couldn't hurt for a HC to call out the coaches on D after giving up 300 yrds rushing to the raiders with Russel at QB. At points like that a little ass chewing is in order and Herm doesn't stand up and challenge or criticize them. Hell, i've never heard him say that they were out played and outcoached, a phrase that gets throw around all the time after a loss.

If Hunt wants to keep Herm around for another year, he will have to get a GM who not only knows personell but can also micro manage Herm and have some control on who stays and who goes on the coaching staff. And i don't think they can find the right candidate that could co exist with the kind of ego Herm has. If he wants to stay bad enough he would need to be Dungied even to a higher extent than Tony himself. Let the O go on its own, which he has appeared too but also find a competent DC that can run the show and stay out of his way. Stick to motivating the players to keep playing hard, etc.

That's kind of the hole point of being a HC though.....Managing people. Players and Coaches. He doesn't seem to be the type of guy willing to change his ways and taking orders from managment on what to do, somewhat comparable to some organizations in MLB.

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 09:42 PM
I was thinking of Dorsey, Tank, and Turk as a rotational player.

I'm not sure that DJ hasn't passed the stage that he can't be coached up any longer.

Yeah, but I don't think he's been coached up by the best coaches. When the next staff comes in here and DJ underperforms, I'll write him off. But until then I'm not counting him out.

booger
12-22-2008, 09:44 PM
I think he'd be pretty average as a 3-4 DE.

Do we really want to take our top five pick and turn him into an average player?

Could turn out to be even worse than average. Look back at Oakland and Rob Ryan running a 34 with Sapp at DE and Grant Irons and Tyler Brayton at OLB's.

Got to the point that Sapp was like a third down pass rush DT only.

booger
12-22-2008, 09:49 PM
Also, NE ran some 4-3 in the first few years with Seymore as a DT.

Pioli would scout all players like i'm sure he does, it would just be fitting them into a new system. The rookie LB they took this year from Tennessee would have fit very well in a 4-3 but they picked him to play inside in their D.

I don't buy that about Pioli. Even though i like Cowher, i could see it as a bad fit if in fact he would be determined to run the 3-4 no matter what. That's too stubborn for my tastes no matter who the coach is.

RustShack
12-22-2008, 09:53 PM
810 said inside sources told them Herm could be fired as early as next Monday...

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 09:55 PM
810 said inside sources told them Herm could be fired as early as next Monday...
Fuck that! Sunday night!

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 09:58 PM
810 said inside sources told them Herm could be fired as early as next Monday...

:clap:

Bring the Ax down Clark, drop that sorry bitch!