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Micjones
12-22-2008, 11:58 AM
Three Rounds:::Kansas City Chiefs
#1 - Brian Orakpo, DE (Texas)
#2 - Alex Mack, C (California)
#3 - Darry Beckwith, MLB (LSU)

Could you live with that?

ArrowheadHawk
12-22-2008, 12:00 PM
Looks good to me.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 12:03 PM
Looks good to me.

How much better would it look if we moved Dorsey to the 3-tech spot?

lazepoo
12-22-2008, 12:06 PM
Three Rounds:::Kansas City Chiefs
#1 - Brian Orakpo, DE (Texas)
#2 - Alex Mack, C (California)
#3 - Darry Beckwith, MLB (LSU)

Could you live with that?
And how much better would that look if we had Haynesworth next to Dorsey?

Micjones
12-22-2008, 12:08 PM
And how much better would that look if we had Haynesworth next to Dorsey?

Will you settle for this guy?
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/demarcus_tyler.jpg

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 12:16 PM
The main problem I have with taking Orakpo #3 overall is I think you could get Selvie or Everett Brown at the top of the 2nd. I also like Ellerbe out of UGA more than Beckwith.

Brock
12-22-2008, 12:17 PM
The main problem I have with taking Orakpo #3 overall is I think you could get Selvie or Everett Brown at the top of the 2nd.

Nothing wrong with taking 2 out of those 3 players, really.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:18 PM
Beckwith has been benched 3 different times this year so there's that.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:18 PM
The main problem I have with taking Orakpo #3 overall is I think you could get Selvie or Everett Brown at the top of the 2nd. I also like Ellerbe out of UGA more than Beckwith.

So switch it over to Selvie or Brown in the 2nd (instead of Mack) and who do you take in the 1st?

suds79
12-22-2008, 12:20 PM
So switch it over to Selvie or Brown in the 2nd (instead of Mack) and who do you take in the 1st?

Here's a new idea. :p Take Stafford or Bradford then.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:21 PM
Here's a new idea. :p Take Stafford or Bradford then.

Stafford yes.

Bradford no.

And I'd rather see this

1st - Stafford
2nd - Everette Brown
3rd - Tuopo

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 12:22 PM
So switch it over to Selvie or Brown in the 2nd (instead of Mack) and who do you take in the 1st?

Well, following this particular mock Stafford is off the board so I would strongly consider Taylor Mays. Adding Mays, Selvie/Brown and Ellerbe to this defense would be outstanding.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:22 PM
I have a really hard time believing Brown will fall that far.

Extra Point
12-22-2008, 12:24 PM
Three Rounds:::Kansas City Chiefs
#1 - Brian Orakpo, DE (Texas)
#2 - Alex Mack, C (California)
#3 - Darry Beckwith, MLB (LSU)

Could you live with that?

Yes.

lazepoo
12-22-2008, 12:26 PM
How much better would it look if we moved Dorsey to the 3-tech spot?

Three Rounds:::Kansas City Chiefs
#1 - Brian Orakpo, DE (Texas)
#2 - Alex Mack, C (California)
#3 - Darry Beckwith, MLB (LSU)

Could you live with that?

Will you settle for this guy?
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/demarcus_tyler.jpg

Hahahahaha. Yeah, I could settle for that:) Doesn't hurt to dream big though...

Mr. Flopnuts
12-22-2008, 12:26 PM
Will you settle for this guy?
http://www.kcchiefs.com/media/players/demarcus_tyler.jpg

I will.

Mr. Flopnuts
12-22-2008, 12:28 PM
Well, following this particular mock Stafford is off the board so I would strongly consider Taylor Mays. Adding Mays, Selvie/Brown and Ellerbe to this defense would be outstanding.

Taylor Mays is going to be an amazing player. I'm probably a bigger fan of his on this board then Mecca. I've watched him play since he was 14. I don't think we would take him in the top 3 though. We'd be trading down if he's our guy.

BigCatDaddy
12-22-2008, 12:30 PM
That's a little higher then I've seen Orakpu rated I believe. Most rankings I've seen by the "experts" had him in the 20's.

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 12:30 PM
Taylor Mays is going to be an amazing player. I'm probably a bigger fan of his on this board then Mecca. I've watched him play since he was 14. I don't think we would take him in the top 3 though. We'd be trading down if he's our guy.

Maybe, but not far. Sean Taylor went #5, LaRon Landry #6, Michael Huff #7 and Donte Whittner #8. Mays is a much better prospect than most of those guys.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:31 PM
Taylor Mays is going to be an amazing player. I'm probably a bigger fan of his on this board then Mecca. I've watched him play since he was 14. I don't think we would take him in the top 3 though. We'd be trading down if he's our guy.

I'm at the position now...where we have so many holes to fill...that I would be happy with a lot of players. Mays is one of those players.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:32 PM
Maybe, but not far. Sean Taylor went #5, LaRon Landry #6, Michael Huff #7 and Donte Whittner #8. Mays is a much better prospect than most of those guys.

Imagine the reaction if we took Mays at #3.

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 12:33 PM
Imagine the reaction if we took Mays at #3.

I could care less what a lot of the dumb fans think.

Mr. Laz
12-22-2008, 12:35 PM
Three Rounds:::Kansas City Chiefs
#1 - Brian Orakpo, DE (Texas)
#2 - Alex Mack, C (California)
#3 - Darry Beckwith, MLB (LSU)

Could you live with that?

pretty high for Orakpo ..... i would hope we could trade down a bit and get another 2nd round if we take Orakpo.


i'll take it though

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:37 PM
Imagine the reaction if we took Mays at #3.

His upside is much higher than nearly anyone else in this draft, you don't find 235lb men that run like that very often.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:37 PM
I could care less what a lot of the dumb fans think.

Neither do I. I'm just saying.....the fall out would be pretty funny.

I would be ecstatic if we traded down a few spots and grabbed Mays. And then traded back into the mid to bottom of the 1st and grabbed Spikes at MLB. Sign Suggs in FA....and holy shit...you just improved our defense 10 fold.

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 12:39 PM
Neither do I. I'm just saying.....the fall out would be pretty funny.

I would be ecstatic if we traded down a few spots and grabbed Mays. And then traded back into the mid to bottom of the 1st and grabbed Spikes at MLB. Sign Suggs in FA....and holy shit...you just improved our defense 10 fold.

That would be a wet dream... but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 12:43 PM
That would be a wet dream... but I wouldn't get my hopes up.

Oh I'm not planning on it. It would be awesome though. That would be my perfect mock draft.

Sign Suggs in FA.

Trade down a couple of spots for an extra 2nd round pick.

Grab Mays in the 1st.

Trade back up into the 15-20 range. Not entirely sure where Spikes will go.

Grab Spikes in the 1st.

Grab Tuopo with our 3rd round pick.

That fills 4 holes on our team. FS, DE, MLB and RT.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
Imagine the reaction if we took Mays at #3.

People will go apeshit...and for good reason.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
People will go apeshit...and for good reason.

What is that good reason?

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
What is that good reason?

This team has bigger fish to fry.
And we can live with Jarrad Page at Free Safety.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
People will go apeshit...and for good reason.

Having a playmaker would suck.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
This team has bigger fish to fry.
And we can live with Jarrad Page at Free Safety.

This team lacks superstar talent on the defensive side. In the top 5, you need to try to draft an unbelievable talent, position be damned.

We lack talent at all positions. There are no bigger fish. Aside from K/P, any player you think is going to be an All-Pro is the player whom you should take at pick #2 or #3.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
This team has bigger fish to fry.
And we can live with Jarrad Page at Free Safety.

You upgrade the team at whatever position as the draft shakes out. You don't miss out on an Ed Reed or Sean Taylor type of safety to reach for a position of need.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Having a playmaker would suck.

God knows we don't have one in Page.
:rolleyes:

And that having one on the Defensive Line (where championships are built) isn't MORE important.
:rolleyes:

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:29 PM
You upgrade the team at whatever position as the draft shakes out. You don't miss out on an Ed Reed or Sean Taylor type of safety to reach for a position of need.

Quit plagiarizing my posts.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:29 PM
This team lacks superstar talent on the defensive side. In the top 5, you need to try to draft an unbelievable talent, position be damned.

Mays won't go Top 5 so that's a moot point.

We lack talent at all positions.

Err...no. We lack talent at several positions, but not all of them.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:29 PM
Page would make a fine backup/ST player.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:30 PM
God knows we don't have one in Page.
:rolleyes:

And that having one on the Defensive Line (where championships are built) isn't MORE important.
:rolleyes:

How many day-one picks do we need on the D-line for it to be decent?

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:30 PM
You upgrade the team at whatever position as the draft shakes out. You don't miss out on an Ed Reed or Sean Taylor type of safety to reach for a position of need.

We wouldn't be reaching to draft Orakpo at #3.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:30 PM
We wouldn't be reaching to draft Orakpo at #3.

It remains to be seen.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Page would make a fine backup/ST player.

Throw Pollard in there as well.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
How many day-one picks do we need on the D-line for it to be decent?

Apparently more than we have.
I HATE the idea of investing more day-one picks, but you have to do it.
Unless they're going to sell out and sign a Terrell Suggs.
IF they do, I'm fine with passing on Orakpo, or Brown, or Selvie.

But we can't take this same defensive line into next season.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Mays won't go Top 5 so that's a moot point.



Err...no. We lack talent at several positions, but not all of them.

If he's whom the organization has as the highest-rated player, they should take him. I'm not concerned if we're taking him 3-4 slots too high.

What areas are completely locked down on the defensive side?

The line? No.
The LB's? ****. No.
The secondary? No.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:32 PM
It remains to be seen.

Indeed.

Still... I wouldn't take Mays with the #1 pick.
I'm fine with Page for another year.
Trade down and take Maualuga or Laurinaitis.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:33 PM
What areas are completely locked down on the defensive side?

The line? No.
The LB's? ****. No.
The secondary? No.

I don't think we need to make a big investment at Corner, Safety, or Defensive Tackle.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
I don't think we need to make a big investment at Corner, Safety, or Defensive Tackle.

You're happy with Page and Pollard at safety? I love having safeties that can't tackle for shit.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
I don't think we need to make a big investment at Corner, Safety, or Defensive Tackle.

Corner is the strongest of the three. Flowers looks awesome. I'd love to have another Flowers on the other side, though, with Carr as the nickle.

Safety. Until this team has Ed Reed, we should be searching for him.

DT. Let's hope Dorsey is the answer. Given the investment from last year's draft, this would be the 3rd priority, based on the positions we're talking about in this post.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:36 PM
Having a playmaker would suck.

So would passing on filling one of the 8 huge holes we have in the starting 22 to take a guy at 3 you could trade back and get at 5-8.

I'm a HUGE fan of Mays, but taking him at 3 with the holes this team has is retarded.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 01:37 PM
So would passing on filling one of the 8 huge holes we have in the starting 22 to take a guy at 3 you could trade back and get at 5-8.

I'm a HUGE fan of Mays, but taking him at 3 with the holes this team has is retarded.

I'd love to trade down and grab an extra pick.....I just don't see that happening.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:38 PM
You're happy with Page and Pollard at safety? I love having safeties that can't tackle for shit.

Completely happy? No.
But I think Pollard has improved this season and Page makes plays.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:39 PM
I'd love to trade down and grab an extra pick.....I just don't see that happening.

Me either.

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Safety. Until this team has Ed Reed, we should be searching for him.

I'm fine with that, but do we have to go there with our #1?

DT. Let's hope Dorsey is the answer. Given the investment from last year's draft, this would be the 3rd priority, based on the positions we're talking about in this post.

I think he and Tyler are the two most promising guys on the line.
We just need someone other than Krumrie to coach them.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
So would passing on filling one of the 8 huge holes we have in the starting 22 to take a guy at 3 you could trade back and get at 5-8.

I'm a HUGE fan of Mays, but taking him at 3 with the holes this team has is retarded.

For the sake of argument: You're the coach. You think Mays is going to be a HOF player. That's what your scouts are telling you and your own evaluation has caused you to come to the same conclusion. Oh, and you can't trade out of your pick. No partners.

You like one of the DE prospects. He could be a Pro-Bowl player 1-2 times during his career. He'll have a very nice, solid tenure in the NFL.

Are you saying you're passing on the HOFer because of 2 draft slots? Dude, this seems like tunnel vision and overcommitment to the perceived "value" of a pick.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
Me either.

So who is worth the #3 pick then?

Stafford?
Orakpo?

Micjones
12-22-2008, 01:42 PM
For the sake of argument: You think Mays is going to be a HOF player. That's what your scouts are telling you and your own evaluation has caused you to come to the same conclusion.

You like one of the DE prospects. He could be a Pro-Bowl player 1-2 times during his career. He'll have a very nice, solid tenure in the NFL.

Are you saying you're passing on the HOFer because of 2 draft slots? Dude, this seems like tunnel vision and overcommitment to the perceived "value" of a pick.

Calling any collegiate player a Hall of Famer before he ever sets foot on an NFL field is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

We all know what Mays can be.
He'll probably be a very special player, but come on.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Calling any collegiate player a Hall of Famer before he ever sets foot on an NFL field is ABSOLUTELY RIDICULOUS.

We all know what Mays can be.
He'll probably be a very special player, but come on.

This is a hypothetical situation. We're talking about potential upside of any given player. Take Mays' name away, and just think safety. I shouldn't have listed anyone. I worried that some might react to a specific player like this.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:44 PM
For the sake of argument: You're the coach. You think Mays is going to be a HOF player. That's what your scouts are telling you and your own evaluation has caused you to come to the same conclusion. Oh, and you can't trade out of your pick. No partners.

You like one of the DE prospects. He could be a Pro-Bowl player 1-2 times during his career. He'll have a very nice, solid tenure in the NFL.

Are you saying you're passing on the HOFer because of 2 draft slots? Dude, this seems like tunnel vision and overcommitment to the perceived "value" of a pick.

Holy strawman, Batman.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:45 PM
Holy strawman, Batman.

No strawman. We're talking upside. These are the types of decisions that have to be made.

How much do you value where you are in the draft vs. what you believe a player's upside is going to be.

He's not good enough for #3 simply b/c of the position he plays, but he's ok for #5?

In the top 5, I think a team's need, for the most part, should be an ancillary concern.

BigRedChief
12-22-2008, 01:46 PM
Orakapo is not worth the #3 pick in the draft.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:46 PM
So who is worth the #3 pick then?

Stafford?
Orakpo?

Stafford is, but he won't be there.

Orakpo isn't a Top 5 guy, IMO.

This is a draft that is solid across the board, but lacks elite talent at the top. You have Stafford and the OT's.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:47 PM
I value safety more than most people do and honestly I don't really like these ends and I wouldn't take a LB with a top 5 pick.

I think a rare safety can go top 5, if he turns into what he can be no one will complain. If you could get Ed Reed with the 1st pick everyone would take it.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:47 PM
Stafford is, but he won't be there.

Orakpo isn't a Top 5 guy, IMO.

This is a draft that is solid across the board, but lacks elite talent at the top. You have Stafford and the OT's.

That's the way it looks now. I expect Mays to shoot up the boards though.

BigRedChief
12-22-2008, 01:49 PM
So would passing on filling one of the 8 huge holes we have in the starting 22 to take a guy at 3 you could trade back and get at 5-8.

I'm a HUGE fan of Mays, but taking him at 3 with the holes this team has is retarded.
I agree, this is going to be a great year to trade down but the problem is that noone want to trade up anymore because of the increased SB's and past failures at the top of the draft. GM's are much more cautious these days.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:49 PM
No strawman. We're talking upside. These are the types of decisions that have to be made.

How much do you value where you are in the draft vs. what you believe a player's upside is going to be.

He's not good enough for #3 simply b/c of the position he plays, but he's ok for #5?

In the top 5, I think a team's need, for the most part, should be an ancillary concern.

Uh, yeah, strawman.

You're going over the top in your evaluation of Mays to make him worth it, and devaluing Orakpo as a POS that won't be better than Tamba Hali, all to make your argument look better.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:51 PM
Someone has to go in those picks, even if they aren't worth it, I'd rather go for a playmaker with huge upside than an end that I'm a bit iffy on, not to mention this is a deep end year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:52 PM
I value safety more than most people do and honestly I don't really like these ends and I wouldn't take a LB with a top 5 pick.

I think a rare safety can go top 5, if he turns into what he can be no one will complain. If you could get Ed Reed with the 1st pick everyone would take it.

Be honest.

Neither a safety or a MLB are good positional value in the Top 5.

But, if you're going to take one anyway, wouldn't you agree that the MLB is going to have more of an impact on your defense overall, therefore making him the better choice?

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:53 PM
Uh, yeah, strawman.

You're going over the top in your evaluation of Mays to make him worth it, and devaluing Orakpo as a POS that won't be better than Tamba Hali.

No. You're too focused on player names, and thus missing my point. I'm not even talking about Orakpo. Haven't even mentioned his name. And, as I responded to mic, it was a mistake to list Mays originally. I don't know enough about the kid, aside from what I've read on-line to form an opinion on him.

Aside from kicker and guards, I don't buy into the fact that a certain position isn't "worthy" of a selection. C would be another, of course.

In the top 5, I want the player whom the organization thinks has the most upside and is an elite talent. Period. This idea that someone would be a steal at #5, but shouldn't be taken at #3 is shortsighted to me.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 01:53 PM
I value safety more than most people do and honestly I don't really like these ends and I wouldn't take a LB with a top 5 pick.

I think a rare safety can go top 5, if he turns into what he can be no one will complain. If you could get Ed Reed with the 1st pick everyone would take it.

I've gotta admit, it's hilarious watching you twist and turn to make a serious case for drafting a safety with a top 5 pick, but you wouldn't take an LB in the top ten unless he was a rush backer. Too funny.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:55 PM
I've gotta admit, it's hilarious watching you twist and turn to make a serious case for drafting a safety with a top 5 pick, but you wouldn't take an LB in the top ten unless he was a rush backer. Too funny.

I wouldn't generally take a safety that high either but Mays is an extremely rare player...

I'm sorry if you don't see how absolutely rare he is I can't help you, Taylor Mays is something that doesn't come around very often.

As for what OTW said depends on the players, Troy Polamalu means alot to to the Steelers.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 01:55 PM
Someone has to go in those picks, even if they aren't worth it, I'd rather go for a playmaker with huge upside than an end that I'm a bit iffy on, not to mention this is a deep end year.

Huge upside? Mays isn't a ballhawk with sick instincts like Ed Reed who will rack up the INTs. He's a phenomenal athlete, no doubt, but he would have to be in a scheme that really catered to him to be a big playmaker.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 01:57 PM
No. You're too focused on player names, and thus missing my point. I'm not even talking about Orakpo. Haven't even mentioned his name. And, as I responded to mic, it was a mistake to list Mays originally. I don't know enough about the kid, aside from what I've read on-line to form an opinion on him.

Aside from kicker and guards, I don't buy into the fact that a certain position isn't "worthy" of a selection. C would be another, of course.

In the top 5, I want the player whom the organization thinks has the most upside and is an elite talent. Period. This idea that someone would be a steal at #5, but shouldn't be taken at #3 is shortsighted to me.

If that's truly how you feel, then it's a no-brainer.

Andre Smith, RT, Kansas City Chiefs.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:59 PM
If that's truly how you feel, then it's a no-brainer.

Andre Smith, RT, Kansas City Chiefs.

Ok. Then worse things have happened. We have 2 very, very talented players on the line with him and Albert. KC fans should be happy. Depending upon what happens with Albert, we either don't have to worry about the tackles or the left side for another 10 years. Cool.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:00 PM
You're basing that off what he's asked to do in coverage.....many many times Mays is asked to cover the entire deep middle by himself and he does it. He has outstanding range and ability and he does what the scheme asks him to do. USC has one of the best past defenses in all of college giving up 122 yards a game, Mays is a huge part of that.

I believe Mays will be a better pro player than he has been a college player....

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:03 PM
You're basing that off what he's asked to do in coverage.....many many times Mays is asked to cover the entire deep middle by himself and he does it. He has outstanding range and ability and he does what the scheme asks him to do. USC has one of the best past defenses in all of college giving up 122 yards a game, Mays is a huge part of that.

I believe Mays will be a better pro player than he has been a college player....

Oh please. He gets to cheat so much in coverage due to the talent he has in front of him. You really don't think that helps him look better than he actually is? I don't see how you can think logically about it and think he really will be even better in the pros.

Also, my point remains that he doesn't have great instincts. That's been a consistent knock on him, and it could get exposed in the pros. To me he seems like a Roy Williams type player, a guy who makes sick plays in the running game but will get exposed in coverage due to lack of instincts and discipline.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:06 PM
He's light years faster than Williams ever was....the best part of his game is coverage really have you ever seen him or are you just looking at him and reading reports?

He's the FS not the SS, he's not the one that comes up to the line or blitzes Ellison does that. Mays is the one who plays coverage 99% of the time.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:16 PM
He's light years faster than Williams ever was....the best part of his game is coverage really have you ever seen him or are you just looking at him and reading reports?

The best part of his game is that he's fast and big. To be great in coverage in the NFL you have to have instincts and discipline - I know he's lacking in instincts and I question if he'll have the necessary discipline in the NFL due to the talent he's played with at USC. He won't be able to stay back a second or two longer in the NFL, he won't be able to take as many chances jumping a route, etc.

He's not great in coverage like you are saying he is, but he still makes plays in college because of his athleticism and surrounding talent.

Fat Elvis
12-22-2008, 02:16 PM
You upgrade the team at whatever position as the draft shakes out. You don't miss out on an Ed Reed or Sean Taylor type of safety to reach for a position of need.


No. In the case of Ed Reed, you trade up so you can snag a Ryan Sims.

Brock
12-22-2008, 02:17 PM
No. In the case of Ed Reed, you trade up so you can snag a Ryan Sims.

:cuss:

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:18 PM
The best part of his game is that he's fast and big. To be great in coverage in the NFL you have to have instincts and discipline - I know he's lacking in instincts and I question if he'll have the necessary discipline in the NFL due to the talent he's played with at USC. He won't be able to stay back a second or two longer in the NFL, he won't be able to take as many chances jumping a route, etc.

He's not great in coverage like you are saying he is, but he still makes plays in college because of his athleticism and surrounding talent.

You've obviously watched USC play like one time, I'm not going to argue about this anymore because it's going to get dumb.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:19 PM
You've obviously watched USC play like one time, I'm not going to argue about this anymore because it's going to get dumb.

Finally, the classic mecca response. It only took about 3 replies this time for you to give up and accuse someone of not watching.

With determination like that you'll never get out of the telemarketing business.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:22 PM
You are telling me the thing he's best at is what he sucks at.....I'm sorry that is just retarded. And every player that plays for SC is scheme disciplined it's why everyone bitches that they don't have big stats.

It's pretty unfortunate that the SC defense is better coached than the Chiefs defense.

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 02:23 PM
Huge upside? Mays isn't a ballhawk with sick instincts like Ed Reed who will rack up the INTs. He's a phenomenal athlete, no doubt, but he would have to be in a scheme that really catered to him to be a big playmaker.

Oh please. He gets to cheat so much in coverage due to the talent he has in front of him. You really don't think that helps him look better than he actually is? I don't see how you can think logically about it and think he really will be even better in the pros.

Also, my point remains that he doesn't have great instincts. That's been a consistent knock on him, and it could get exposed in the pros. To me he seems like a Roy Williams type player, a guy who makes sick plays in the running game but will get exposed in coverage due to lack of instincts and discipline.

The best part of his game is that he's fast and big. To be great in coverage in the NFL you have to have instincts and discipline - I know he's lacking in instincts and I question if he'll have the necessary discipline in the NFL due to the talent he's played with at USC. He won't be able to stay back a second or two longer in the NFL, he won't be able to take as many chances jumping a route, etc.

He's not great in coverage like you are saying he is, but he still makes plays in college because of his athleticism and surrounding talent.

ROFL

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 02:24 PM
You're happy with Page and Pollard at safety? I love having safeties that can't tackle for shit.

I don't think I could go through another season of this pass rush.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:26 PM
ROFL

But Aaron Curry is the greatest prospect ever.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:27 PM
You are telling me the thing he's best at is what he sucks at.....I'm sorry that is just retarded. And every player that plays for SC is scheme disciplined it's why everyone bitches that they don't have big stats.

It's pretty unfortunate that the SC defense is better coached than the Chiefs defense.

Really? He's "best" at instincts and discipline? He has great ball skills? Okay.

Well I guess we'll just have to bookmark this page and come back to it in a few months to see what the experts are saying. Somehow I have a feeling that you'll drastically twist and turn your argument again.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:27 PM
But Aaron Curry is the greatest prospect ever.

No, just a top ten pick, like I've said consistently.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:30 PM
Taylor Mays is a coverage safety, if you watched him or watched how he's used you'd see that, you are looking at his size and comparing him to Roy Williams which is a fucking joke.

The guy is not used like him or does he remotely play like him.

the Talking Can
12-22-2008, 02:32 PM
For the sake of argument: You're the coach. You think Mays is going to be a HOF player. That's what your scouts are telling you and your own evaluation has caused you to come to the same conclusion. Oh, and you can't trade out of your pick. No partners.

You like one of the DE prospects. He could be a Pro-Bowl player 1-2 times during his career. He'll have a very nice, solid tenure in the NFL.

Are you saying you're passing on the HOFer because of 2 draft slots? Dude, this seems like tunnel vision and overcommitment to the perceived "value" of a pick.

spot

on

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Taylor Mays is a coverage safety, if you watched him or watched how he's used you'd see that, you are looking at his size and comparing him to Roy Williams which is a ****ing joke.

The guy is not used like him or does he remotely play like him.

He's a centerfielder. Being the last line of defense in your scheme does not automatically mean that you have excellent instincts, discipline, and ball skills. Why the f#ck can't you comprehend that? He's not going to get insane INT numbers like Reed, which means he loses some value, especially when we're talking about spending a damn top 5 pick in him.

I never compared his play to Roy Williams; what I did say is that he reminds me of a guy like Roy Williams who will make great tackles in space but can be beaten deep. His size and speed have nothing to do with why I brought up RW.

Again, we'll bookmark this page to see what the experts say a couple months from now.

AustinChief
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Ok, let's say we have the #2 pick and the only QB who came out (Stafford or Bradford) is picked by the Lions...

Obviously it would be great to trade down, but highly unlikely....

I just don't see any "value" outside of the tackle position.

I know a few people love Taylor Mays and I'm sure some want Curry... but I have a feeling we will be stuck drafting another tackle.

Does anybody else have a feeling this is likely?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:38 PM
He's a centerfielder. Being the last line of defense in your scheme does not automatically mean that you have excellent instincts, discipline, and ball skills. Why the f#ck can't you comprehend that? He's not going to get insane INT numbers like Reed, which means he loses some value, especially when we're talking about spending a damn top 5 pick in him.

I never compared his play to Roy Williams; what I did say is that he reminds me of a guy like Roy Williams who will make great tackles in space but can be beaten deep. His size and speed have nothing to do with why I brought up RW.

Again, we'll bookmark this page to see what the experts say a couple months from now.

Taylor Mays runs like a CB, Roy Williams runs like a LB, once again how do they remotely compare?

Taylor Mays is a big guy sure but his speed is ridiculous, if you think guys are just going to run by him you're mistaken.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Ok, let's say we have the #2 pick and the only QB who came out (Stafford or Bradford) is picked by the Lions...

Obviously it would be great to trade down, but highly unlikely....

I just don't see any "value" outside of the tackle position.

I know a few people love Taylor Mays and I'm sure some want Curry... but I have a feeling we will be stuck drafting another tackle.

Does anybody else have a feeling this is likely?

Yes, very. I could very well see an OT, or have them nab Orakpo there, although from what I gather from those who follow college closer than I, Orakpo at #2 would be a huge reach.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Taylor Mays runs like a CB, Roy Williams runs like a LB, once again how do they remotely compare?

Taylor Mays is a big guy sure but his speed is ridiculous, if you think guys are just going to run by him you're mistaken.

Does he actually have a clue while he's in coverage, unlike our safeties (especially Pollard)?

AustinChief
12-22-2008, 02:40 PM
Yes, very. I could very well see an OT, or have them nab Orakpo there, although from what I gather from those who follow college closer than I, Orakpo at #2 would be a huge reach.

I am unsure on Orakpo... I have watched him beat some DAMN good linemen... but for some reason... he never jumped out and impressed me... I can't really say why....

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 02:42 PM
That's a nice looking mock IMO.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:42 PM
Does he actually have a clue while he's in coverage, unlike our safeties (especially Pollard)?

I think so from watching him, how many times do you ever see SC get beat deep, alot of the time the other team avoids him.

He's had very good college coaching and been on the field since he was a true freshman.

DaKCMan AP
12-22-2008, 02:43 PM
I never compared his play to Roy Williams; what I did say is that he reminds me of a guy like Roy Williams

:doh!:

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:43 PM
Taylor Mays runs like a CB, Roy Williams runs like a LB, once again how do they remotely compare?

What about this quote that you just replied to:

I never compared his play to Roy Williams; what I did say is that he reminds me of a guy like Roy Williams who will make great tackles in space but can be beaten deep. His size and speed have nothing to do with why I brought up RW.

made you make another comment comparing the size and/or speed of the two players? Are you high right now?

Taylor Mays is a big guy sure but his speed is ridiculous, if you think guys are just going to run by him you're mistaken.

Mecca - PAY ATTENTION.

Mays is a physical freak - no argument. His combination of size and speed is fantastic. No one is going to run by him in a foot race. But that has nothing - NOTHING - to do with his instincts, discipline, and ball skills.

It's like I'm telling you Tamba Hali has poor pass rush moves, and you responding by giving me his 40 time. You're not doing anything to counter what I'm bringing up.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:44 PM
After looking at that post above yours this is getting really funny.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 02:47 PM
After looking at that post above yours this is getting really funny.

Good retort.

Are you planning on responding to the Tom Brady thread anytime soon?

KevB
12-22-2008, 03:00 PM
I'll say this, after watching Morgan try to tackle Fasano's shoelace yesterday, I don't think we have our next great safety waiting in the wings. If the new regime thinks Mays can have the same impact as Bob Sanders, Ed Reed and Polamalu, I'm fine with a safety at #3.

unothadeal
12-22-2008, 03:01 PM
Wasn't Mecca really high on Morgan?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 03:04 PM
Wasn't Mecca really high on Morgan?

As a 3rd rounder yea, but you have to understand he was recruited as a WR and doesn't have alot of experience at the position, he's very raw and will need some time to learn his position.

KevB
12-22-2008, 03:17 PM
As a 3rd rounder yea, but you have to understand he was recruited as a WR and doesn't have alot of experience at the position, he's very raw and will need some time to learn his position.

Most people believed it was a good pick, but safeties that like to hit (which is generally a prerequisite for the position) don't try to tackle like the attempt yesterday in the red zone. That was painful. He can still be a player IMO, but not sure it will be next year.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 03:18 PM
Be honest.

Neither a safety or a MLB are good positional value in the Top 5.

But, if you're going to take one anyway, wouldn't you agree that the MLB is going to have more of an impact on your defense overall, therefore making him the better choice?

Still waiting on a response.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Still waiting on a response.

I would say yes but it all depends on the quality of the player you are looking at taking....and also the dropoff between said person and the next player for that position.

There looks to be a number of MLBs available in this draft.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 03:20 PM
Still waiting on a response.

I covered that question if you didn't like the answer, that isn't my problem.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 03:25 PM
I covered that question if you didn't like the answer, that isn't my problem.

I don't see a single response from you that answers that question after I posed it to you.

If all things were equal, who makes more of an impact on defense - MLB or Safety?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 03:27 PM
I don't see a single response from you that answers that question after I posed it to you.

If all things were equal, who makes more of an impact on defense - MLB or Safety?

And I said who are the players and gave an example....you are starting to go overboard on positional value.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 03:34 PM
And I said who are the players and gave an example....you are starting to go overboard on positional value.

Who cares who the players are.

What position makes more of an impact on the defense, MLB or safety?

Micjones
12-22-2008, 03:49 PM
Would you rather have Ray Lewis or Ed Reed?

talastan
12-22-2008, 03:50 PM
Would you rather have Ray Lewis or Ed Reed?

Ray Lewis FTW!

Stryker
12-22-2008, 03:53 PM
Who cares who the players are.

What position makes more of an impact on the defense, MLB or safety?

MLB

Stryker
12-22-2008, 03:54 PM
Would you rather have Ray Lewis or Ed Reed?

Ed Reed

aturnis
12-22-2008, 05:15 PM
MLB without a doubt. Every defensive rookie of the year since 2000 has been a MLB with the exception of Peppers. So, I guess they are the most likely to make an IMMEDIATE impact.

That being said. I wouldn't mind seeing what it'd take to get Vilma. If the Chiefs decided to make a big splash in FA w/ the new GM that is. Then we could justifiably make our first to picks DE's, or DE OLB, or DE, C.

Pestilence
12-22-2008, 05:17 PM
MLB without a doubt. Every defensive rookie of the year since 2000 has been a MLB with the exception of Peppers. So, I guess they are the most likely to make an IMMEDIATE impact.

That being said. I wouldn't mind seeing what it'd take to get Vilma. If the Chiefs decided to make a big splash in FA w/ the new GM that is. Then we could justifiably make our first to picks DE's, or DE OLB, or DE, C.

Honestly if we're going to go that route....then I would rather grab Suggs in FA and then draft a MLB like Maulaugu in the 1st round.

'Hamas' Jenkins
12-22-2008, 05:23 PM
I don't see a single response from you that answers that question after I posed it to you.

If all things were equal, who makes more of an impact on defense - MLB or Safety?

It's scheme dependent. In a traditional base 4-3, a MLB. In a Tampa 2, a safety. In a 3-4, it's a toss up.

talastan
12-22-2008, 05:41 PM
It's scheme dependent. In a traditional base 4-3, a MLB. In a Tampa 2, a safety. In a 3-4, it's a toss up.

Why, I'm just curious, because I've always thought the MLB was especially important in a Tampa 2.

RustShack
12-22-2008, 05:45 PM
Why, I'm just curious, because I've always thought the MLB was especially important in a Tampa 2.

That would be the UT, RE, and OLB. Sapp, Rice, and Brooks.

eazyb81
12-22-2008, 05:55 PM
That would be the UT, RE, and OLB. Sapp, Rice, and Brooks.

or some guy named Urlacher for the Bears.

MLB is definitely important in a Tampa 2. They have major coverage responsibilities.