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View Full Version : Chiefs Petro a& Lenny "Don't blame the offense"


petegz28
12-22-2008, 12:38 PM
On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss.

Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games".

Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead.

Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off.


Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.

suds79
12-22-2008, 12:42 PM
Sure I don't think anybody is purely faulting the offense after Sunday's game.

The defense blew it. No doubt about that. This one is on them.

But it would be nice if for once the offense didn't choke again in the 2nd half.

1st half - 28 points (At that rate they should easily score in the 40s and probably 50s)

2nd half - 3 points.

Out-coached by halftime adjustments again. :shake:

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:43 PM
On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss.

Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games".

Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead.

Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off.


Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.

R U sure that wasnt a replay from 2003 and the Circus Offense?

Herm Herm Herm, how you look foolish now for running your mouth...

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
We score so fast our awesome D never gets a break /Herm

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Sure I don't think anybody is purely faulting the offense after Sunday's game.

The defense blew it. No doubt about that. This one is on them.

But it would be nice if for once the offense didn't choke again in the 2nd half.

1st half - 28 points (At that rate they should easily score in the 40s and probably 50s)

2nd half - 3 points.

Out-coached by halftime adjustments again. :shake:

3 points in the second half is just amazing.. Our failure to adjust has cost this team at least 7 games this year... We should be at least 8-8 or better...

Bowser
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Not only has the game passed Gunther by, offenses around the league have effectively learned to counter the en vogue Cover 2. And, it doesn't help the Chiefs any by starting a number of guys who wouldn't even be on other NFL rosters.

petegz28
12-22-2008, 12:44 PM
Sure I don't think anybody is purely faulting the offense after Sunday's game.

The defense blew it. No doubt about that. This one is on them.

But it would be nice if for once the offense didn't choke again in the 2nd half.

1st half - 28 points (At that rate they should easily score in the 40s and probably 50s)

2nd half - 3 points.

Out-coached by halftime adjustments again. :shake:

We had the ball for 3 minutes in the 4th quarter. Hard to score without the ball.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:45 PM
We're just a really bad team...

Bowser
12-22-2008, 12:46 PM
We're just a really bad team...

Are you baiting KCJohnny here?

petegz28
12-22-2008, 12:46 PM
We're just a really bad coached team...

FYP...:D

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:47 PM
On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss.

Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games".

Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead.

Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off.


Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.
actually only QB's for the Chiefs have a stat called 'near INTs'...no other team's QB ever almost throws an INT.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 12:47 PM
FYP...:D

And YOU'RE baiting SensibleChiefsFan. Bunch of shit stirrers in here.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:47 PM
Are you baiting KCJohnny here?

KCJohnny is like our special ed superhero.... YOU really feel sorry for him, but his dedication to the cause makes you have goosebumps...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:48 PM
The Chiefs are just a really bad team...

FYP.

Don't try to lump yourself in with the actual fans.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:49 PM
FYP.

Don't try to lump yourself in with the actual fans.

I'd rather not be lumped with you, after that whole "I'd rather have Thigpen than Carson Palmer" thing I'd like to be thought of as far away from you as possible.

Reerun_KC
12-22-2008, 12:49 PM
The Chiefs without Huard are just a really bad team...

FYP

ROFL

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:51 PM
I'd rather not be lumped with you, after that whole "I'd rather have Thigpen than Carson Palmer" thing I'd like to be thought of as far away from you as possible.

I can't wait until the Palmer led Bengals win 5 or 6 games next year so I can laugh in your face...

Mr. Immobile/overrated is finished. Two more seasons before everyone figures out the guy is a fraud. No ball control, no pocket awareness, no good.

He's on name alone...

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:52 PM
And then Hootie will wonder why people think he's dumb.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:54 PM
It's ok Mecca...of course you're going to have the support on the board on this one...Carson Palmer is a big name...

But next season, and the one after that...it'll be hilarious to hear your excuses for not seeing it coming...

Palmer is FINISHED. He'll never lead another team to the playoffs.

DJ's left nut
12-22-2008, 12:55 PM
That entire exchange was absurd.

Someone would say "hey, so Thigpen made a couple of bad throws"

St. James would pipe up "so the defense gives up 38 and you're blaming the offense, you can't put this on the offense...blah blah blah".

The defense sucking does not change the performance of the offense. The offense cratered in the 2nd half, the playcalling was bizarre (sticking with the pass...like Petegz has asked them to do the last several weeks in an attempt to defend Thigpen) and Thigpen failed miserably on a number of occasions.

The offense was awful in the 2nd half. It's absolutely fair to point that out.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:57 PM
It's ok Mecca...of course you're going to have the support on the board on this one...Carson Palmer is a big name...

But next season, and the one after that...it'll be hilarious to hear your excuses for not seeing it coming...

Palmer is FINISHED. He'll never lead another team to the playoffs.

I'll trade basically the entire Chiefs roster for Carson Palmer.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 12:58 PM
It's also fair to point out that the offense scored 31 points without help from the defense and they still lost because the defense couldn't stop a team that is far from an offensive juggernaut.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 12:58 PM
Palmer is FINISHED. He'll never lead another team to the playoffs.

You really believe that and why?

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 12:58 PM
It's ok Mecca...of course you're going to have the support on the board on this one...Carson Palmer is a big name...

But next season, and the one after that...it'll be hilarious to hear your excuses for not seeing it coming...

Palmer is FINISHED. He'll never lead another team to the playoffs.

i think that palmer is washed up also. i've said that for a long time

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
You really believe that and why?

Because Hootie plays fantasy football.....

He told me Palmer had a bad shoulder last night, I like when he doesn't even know what Palmers actual injury is.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
i think that palmer is washed up also. i've said that for a long time

Well now I'm satisfied that he's not, you and Hootie believing something the same makes it a pretty safe bet to be on the other side.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 12:59 PM
I'll trade basically the entire Chiefs roster for Carson Palmer.

ROFL wow you love ANY usc player huh? palmer hasnt been the same since injuring his knee

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:00 PM
Well now I'm satisfied that he's not, you and Hootie believing something the same makes it a pretty safe bet to be on the other side.

we'll see

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:00 PM
ROFL wow you love ANY usc player huh? palmer hasnt been the same since injuring his knee

........

The retards have united.....they love Tyler Thigpen but hate Carson Palmer, jesus christ.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:00 PM
I'll trade basically the entire Chiefs roster for Carson Palmer.

ROFLROFLROFL

I'd trade maybe a 3rd round pick for an immobile, injury prone QB that can't protect the football.

The Carson Palmer/Drew Bledsoe type QB is done...

Look at all of the QB's coming into the league now...they are all CAPABLE of moving in the pocket...Culter, Romo, Rivers, Rodgers, Ryan, etc...and the QB's that have been good forever (Manning, Brady, Favre) have always had a knack for avoiding pressure and making plays by staying alive in the pocket.

Palmer can't do this stuff...we've seen him first hand fumble the game away against the Chiefs on several occasions...the guy can't feel pressure to save his life.

His only chance is playing behind a 2003 Chiefs-esque offensive line.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:01 PM
I'll trade basically the entire Chiefs roster for Carson Palmer.

That's pretty retarded.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:02 PM
That's pretty retarded.

You notice I said basically right, it's not like this team has alot of players, outside of 5-10 guys.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:02 PM
........

The retards have united.....they love Tyler Thigpen but hate Carson Palmer, jesus christ.

see thats why people hate you on here, we're stating a case against a guy and you start calling people retards. thats why i fucking hate you. if you told me you would show up at a function to punch me in the face i would be there with bells on asshole

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:03 PM
Because Hootie plays fantasy football.....

He told me Palmer had a bad shoulder last night, I like when he doesn't even know what Palmers actual injury is.

He had one good year that put him on the map...the year after that the Bengals won 7 games and he fumbled the ball 15 times...the year after that he threw 20 picks and the Bengals failed to make the playoffs again...

The dude is done. He loses as many, if not more football games than he wins...that's not a franchise QB.

Sorry USC fan boy, Palmer doesn't win you football games. You won't even take the bet on a healthy Palmer winning 7 games for the Bengals next year because you know it's a bad bet...

A franchise QB wins football games...Carson Palmer isn't a franchise QB...so trading our entire roster for a third tier injury prone QB doesn't exactly make you the GM you call yourself.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:04 PM
We didnt run it enough to be honest.

LJ avg damn near 10 ypc.

I have no clue on why we didn't continue to run the ball down their throats.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:04 PM
ROFL wow you love ANY usc player huh? palmer hasnt been the same since injuring his knee

Boy he was really shitty after blowing out his knee..

2006 Cincinnati 16 93.9 324 520 62.3 4035 252.2 7.8 28 13

Man that's a shitty shitty year.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:05 PM
He had one good year that put him on the map...the year after that the Bengals won 7 games and he fumbled the ball 15 times...the year after that he threw 20 picks and the Bengals failed to make the playoffs again...

The dude is done. He loses as many, if not more football games than he wins...that's not a franchise QB.

Sorry USC fan boy, Palmer doesn't win you football games. You won't even take the bet on a healthy Palmer winning 7 games for the Bengals next year because you know it's a bad bet...

A franchise QB wins football games...Carson Palmer isn't a franchise QB...so trading our entire roster for a third tier injury prone QB doesn't exactly make you the GM you call yourself.


:spock: LMAO This is just a dumbfucking post. Theres no other way to put it.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:05 PM
see thats why people hate you on here, we're stating a case against a guy and you start calling people retards. thats why i fucking hate you. if you told me you would show up at a function to punch me in the face i would be there with bells on asshole

You are railing on a 28 year old QB, that has every tool you could ask a QB to have after supporting Tyler Thigpen, do you understand how dumb that makes you look?

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:06 PM
If I had the choice between Carson Palmer and drafting a QB with say...the 25th pick in the draft I'd immediately take the 25th pick without thinking twice.

Every single QB that is successful in today's game and is a 'franchise' QB can move in the pocket...Palmer can't. He's the next Drew Bledsoe...Bledsoe was awesome before the hybrid DE's became a fixture on NFL defenses...then he became a downright liability...look at what Tony Romo has done for that team...and what can he do? Make plays with his feet.

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 01:07 PM
Palmer had a 41.3 rating against Tennesse this year.
Thigpen had a 68.8 rating against Tennesse this year.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:07 PM
He's not nearly as immobile as Bledsoe was....

And by the way if you haven't noticed, Tony Romo is sucking ass this year.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:07 PM
Palmer had a 41.3 rating against Tennesse this year.
Thigpen had a 68.8 rating against Tennesse this year.

Yes it's all based on 1 game.......you are way smarter than that.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:08 PM
Boy he was really shitty after blowing out his knee..

2006 Cincinnati 16 93.9 324 520 62.3 4035 252.2 7.8 28 13

Man that's a shitty shitty year.

the year he fumbled 15 times? What is he...Dave Krieg?

How many wins did they have that year?

They go 8-8 or 7-9 every year with Palmer because he's nothing more than average even when he's healthy.

Peyton Manning wins despite that defense...why? Because he's a franchise QB that protects the ball...

You can't be a franchise QB and fumble the ball 15 times in a season.

Demonpenz
12-22-2008, 01:08 PM
We didnt run it enough to be honest.

LJ avg damn near 10 ypc.

I have no clue on why we didn't continue to run the ball down their throats.

It is good for the team, we save some carries for LJ later on down the line. Then we loose getting us a better pick. The stars are aligning greatly

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:09 PM
the year he fumbled 15 times? What is he...Dave Krieg?

How many wins did they have that year?

They go 8-8 or 7-9 every year with Palmer because he's nothing more than average even when he's healthy.

Peyton Manning wins despite that defense...why? Because he's a franchise QB that protects the ball...

You can't be a franchise QB and fumble the ball 15 times in a season.

Take Warren Moon out of the HOF he sucked balls. That is basically what this post is saying.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:09 PM
He's not nearly as immobile as Bledsoe was....

And by the way if you haven't noticed, Tony Romo is sucking ass this year.

8-3 in games when he's healthy? That's sucking ass?

26 TD's and 13 INT's with a 95 QB rating...

8-3

are you retarded?

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:10 PM
Palmer is Trent Green. If he has an above average line and skill players, he will dominate. I don't see Carson as that guy that can lift the talent of the players around him, though.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:10 PM
Hootie, you amuse me.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:11 PM
Palmer is Trent Green. If he has an above average line and skill players, he will dominate. I don't see Carson as that guy that can lift the talent of the players around him, though.

Classic Chiefs planet line "No QB is good without a line"

HemiEd
12-22-2008, 01:11 PM
I'll trade basically the entire Chiefs roster for Carson Palmer.

Your dumbest post ever.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:11 PM
Tony Romo, undrafted, has accomplished far more to date, and is a far better QB than former #1 pick Carson Palmer...hands down.

and Carson Palmer is done in the NFL...two more years of mediocrity equals new team, equals backup job, equals just another #1 QB bust.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
Your dumbest post ever.

It's a tongue in cheek post but Carson Palmer is worth more than basically every player on the Chiefs roster.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
Hootie, you amuse me.

why? Because you just said a QB who is 8-3 as a starter this year with 26 TD's and 13 INT's with a QB rating higher than that of the 8-8 2006 Carson Palmer is 'sucking balls' this year?

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
Classic Chiefs planet line "No QB is good without a line"

My point was Carson is good, maybe borderline great, but he isn't elite.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:12 PM
It's a tongue in cheek post but Carson Palmer is worth more than basically every player on the Chiefs roster.

so you'd trade our #3 pick for Carson Palmer?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:13 PM
Tony Romo, undrafted, has accomplished far more to date, and is a far better QB than former #1 pick Carson Palmer...hands down.

and Carson Palmer is done in the NFL...two more years of mediocrity equals new team, equals backup job, equals just another #1 QB bust.

Tony Romo is only on the most talented team in the league, man I'm impressed...

And according to you he hasn't because Palmer and Romo have done the same thing they've both made the playoffs and lost. Palmer got injured in his game, Romo just fucked up.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:13 PM
My point was Carson is good, maybe borderline great, but he isn't elite.

That's fine if you think there's like 1 or 2 elite QB's.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:14 PM
My point was Carson is good, maybe borderline great, but he isn't elite.

if he was borderline great he'd have more than one playoff appearance under his belt with players like Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh and Chris Henry on his team...

He was average when healthy, and now he can't stay on the field...he's on name alone now.

People were taking him in the 2nd round of fantasy this year and I was cracking up...the dude will never be relevant again...I can't wait until the 5-11 2009 Bengals conclude their season with Palmer on IR so I can laugh in douche bag's face.

DeezNutz
12-22-2008, 01:14 PM
so you'd trade our #3 pick for Carson Palmer?

Would you trade LJ for Palmer?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:15 PM
It's Carson Palmers fault the Bengals are retards, he is obviously the QB, GM and head coach.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:15 PM
That's fine if you think there's like 1 or 2 elite QB's.

Brady (when healthy), Manning, and Favre of last year come to mind.

Phillip Rivers this year is a good comparison to Carson Palmer, imo.

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Wow we have some retards on the loose. Carson Palmer is a top 5 NFL QB. Period. Put him in city other than the cesspool of Cincinnati and you are talking about Peyton Manning and him in the same breath. And heck he took that cesspool to the playoffs through a division championship.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Tony Romo is only on the most talented team in the league, man I'm impressed...

And according to you he hasn't because Palmer and Romo have done the same thing they've both made the playoffs and lost. Palmer got injured in his game, Romo just ****ed up.

Romo has made the playoffs 2 seasons out of 2 and he played fucking awesome against the EVENTUAL SUPER BOWL CHAMPION GIANTS...only to have Crayton drop a sure fire, Tony Romo made (on an amazing scramble) dagger TD pass (if you watched the game you'd know the play) that would have been them up 28-17...instead they had to punt and the rest was history.

The Cowboys played the Giants better than the then 18-0 Patriots last year...if it wasn't for the Cowboys D surrendering a first half TD with 0:45 on the clock and said Crayton drop, the Cowboys represent the NFC in the Super Bowl and the Pats probably go 19-0.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:16 PM
Brady (when healthy), Manning, and Favre of last year come to mind.

Phillip Rivers this year is a good comparison to Carson Palmer, imo.

Rivers holds the ball and takes alot of sacks so if anyone is going to rail on Palmer for being immobile Rivers does the same stuff...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:17 PM
Would you trade LJ for Palmer?

Yes but LJ has no trade value.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:17 PM
if he was borderline great he'd have more than one playoff appearance under his belt with players like Chad Johnson, TJ Houshmandzadeh and Chris Henry on his team...

He was average when healthy, and now he can't stay on the field...he's on name alone now.

People were taking him in the 2nd round of fantasy this year and I was cracking up...the dude will never be relevant again...I can't wait until the 5-11 2009 Bengals conclude their season with Palmer on IR so I can laugh in douche bag's face.

This is why I made the Trent Green reference. Cinci, when Palmer was lighting it up, had no defense, ala the '02-'05 Chiefs when Trent was tearing it up.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:18 PM
Wow we have some retards on the loose. Carson Palmer is a top 5 NFL QB. Period. Put him in city other than the cesspool of Cincinnati and you are talking about Peyton Manning and him in the same breath. And heck he took that cesspool to the playoffs through a division championship.

It's unexplainable.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:18 PM
You are railing on a 28 year old QB, that has every tool you could ask a QB to have after supporting Tyler Thigpen, do you understand how dumb that makes you look?

who had a couple of good years and ALWAYS IS INJURED

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:19 PM
Always injured?

This is the first year he has missed any games due to injury....

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:19 PM
Would you trade LJ for Palmer?

I would in a heartbeat.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Always injured?

This is the first year he has missed any games due to injury....

but he always has injuries that limit his play. what's his career won loss record?

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:20 PM
Wow we have some retards on the loose. Carson Palmer is a top 5 NFL QB. Period. Put him in city other than the cesspool of Cincinnati and you are talking about Peyton Manning and him in the same breath. And heck he took that cesspool to the playoffs through a division championship.

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Carson Palmer isn't even in the same world as Peyton Manning.

Everyone gives the Colts credit for all of the pieces they surround Peyton with...but living in Illinois I get EVERY Colts game and they have a defense that is almost as bad as the one we field...Harrison is noticeably washed up...Clark is an average TE that Peyton glorifies...that offensive line is shaky at best and they have NO running game this year...

It's Peyton and Wayne...mostly Peyton...and he's willed that team on one knee from 3-4 to 11-4...

Carson Palmer is a #1 pick that has been surrounded by talent on the offensive side of the ball his whole career...the year he took over for Kitna the Bengals won 8 or 9 games I believe...they might have been a playoff team.

Since then Palmer has made the playoffs once and has underachieved every year because he has terrible ball control. Too many turnovers, not enough 3rd down conversions...the dude is flat out overrated...always has been...and now he's injury prone. I told Mecca the Bengals won't win 7 games next year with a healthy Palmer and he won't take the bet because he knows it's a bad bet.

A franchise QB wills their team to the playoffs, period.

See Matt Ryan.

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:21 PM
Always injured?

This is the first year he has missed any games due to injury....

Playoff game against Pittsburgh.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:21 PM
They can have everyone on the offense other than Bowe and Albert for Palmer....and they can take DJ too.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:21 PM
Playoff game against Pittsburgh.

Well he got injured in that game then was ready for the next season so he started the game.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
carson palmer career rating of 88.9!!! yeah thats top 5 qb worthy. you guys are hilarious

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
Rivers holds the ball and takes alot of sacks so if anyone is going to rail on Palmer for being immobile Rivers does the same stuff...

Sure, Rivers takes a lot of sacks...but he also makes plays with his feet...3 of his 4 TD passes yesterday were all because he is mobile and got out of the pocket and gave his receivers extra time to get open in the end zone.

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Carson Palmer isn't even in the same world as Peyton Manning.

Everyone gives the Colts credit for all of the pieces they surround Peyton with...but living in Illinois I get EVERY Colts game and they have a defense that is almost as bad as the one we field...Harrison is noticeably washed up...Clark is an average TE that Peyton glorifies...that offensive line is shaky at best and they have NO running game this year...

It's Peyton and Wayne...mostly Peyton...and he's willed that team on one knee from 3-4 to 11-4...

Carson Palmer is a #1 pick that has been surrounded by talent on the offensive side of the ball his whole career...the year he took over for Kitna the Bengals won 8 or 9 games I believe...they might have been a playoff team.

Since then Palmer has made the playoffs once and has underachieved every year because he has terrible ball control. Too many turnovers, not enough 3rd down conversions...the dude is flat out overrated...always has been...and now he's injury prone. I told Mecca the Bengals won't win 7 games next year with a healthy Palmer and he won't take the bet because he knows it's a bad bet.

A franchise QB wills their team to the playoffs, period.

See Matt Ryan.

You are also the idiot who pimped Damon Huard.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
but he always has injuries that limit his play. what's his career won loss record?

According to this argument I better never hear it's not Thigpens fault and it's the defenses fault ever again.

HemiEd
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
Palmer is Trent Green. If he has an above average line and skill players, he will dominate. I don't see Carson as that guy that can lift the talent of the players around him, though.

I agree, Palmer is no longer an ascending player.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:22 PM
but he always has injuries that limit his play. what's his career won loss record?

W-L record many times has nothing to do with QB play.

CIN defense have been among the worst units in the NFL for nearly 20 years.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:23 PM
I agree, Palmer is no longer an ascending player.

He's 28 and he's way more naturally gifted than Green ever was.

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:23 PM
carson palmer career rating of 88.9!!! yeah thats top 5 qb worthy. you guys are hilarious

Go look up John Elway's and then you will look like a jackass for bringing QB rating into the picture.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
2006 Palmer fumbles the ball 15 times...2007 he throws 20 picks...sorry dude, the guy is a turnover machine...hurts his team as much as he helps it...it's evidenced by their record...the Bengals are 7-9 or 8-8 every year...so fine, maybe he's not awful, but he's nothing more than average.

I'll take a guy like Thigpen because at least he has potential...you say you can't win a Super Bowl with Thigpen...which is probably true...but you can't win one with Carson Palmer either so why are we trading our entire roster for a guy that is worth a late 2nd round pick, tops?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
W-L record many times has nothing to do with QB play.

CIN defense have been among the worst units in the NFL for nearly 20 years.

Jasons argument basically says Tyler Thigpen blows fuckin balls you should hate him with this argument because as a starter he is now 1-9.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:24 PM
You are also the idiot who pimped Damon Huard.

Never pimped Damon Huard...

Said he was a better fit for the R2P2 than Trent Green and Brodie Croyle...which was 100% correct.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
Go look up John Elway's and then you will look like a jackass for bringing QB rating into the picture.

ok buddy how do YOU want to compare QBs? i guarantee palmer isnt top5 in any way you can measure by stats AND thats with 2 yes 2 all pro recievers(who would be on most any team)

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
W-L record many times has nothing to do with QB play.

CIN defense have been among the worst units in the NFL for nearly 20 years.

watch the Colts defense play a game this year and then tell me who's responsible for them being in the playoffs...

A healthy Palmer on the Colts and I'd say they'd have 3 or 4 wins this year.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:25 PM
You are also the idiot who pimped Damon Huard.

Peyton clearly has more talent around him than Palmer does. Its not even close.

Marvin lost a step but still is one of the better WRs in the NFL

Clark is better than any TE the Bengals ever had in the history if their existence.

Wayne is better than both Ocho Cinco and Housh.

Not to mention Manning almost NEVER gets sacked.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
According to this argument I better never hear it's not Thigpens fault and it's the defenses fault ever again.

Fortunately, Thigpen is a first year starter...when Manning was where Palmer is at now he was winning 12+ games a year and his team was a legit threat every year because Peyton Manning was QB...

Opposing defenses are suppose to fear a franchise QB...opposing defenses can't wait to square off against Palmer (see Jared Allen) because he can't feel the pressure and he's a turnover waiting to happen.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:27 PM
Jasons argument basically says Tyler Thigpen blows fuckin balls you should hate him with this argument because as a starter he is now 1-9.

yep AND he's only started 10 games how long has palmer been in the league?

AND GREAT QB"S WIN NO MATTER WHAT RIGHT GUYS? i'm using YOUR arguments against thigpen and using YOUR CRITERIA palmer isnt good

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:28 PM
watch the Colts defense play a game this year and then tell me who's responsible for them being in the playoffs...

A healthy Palmer on the Colts and I'd say they'd have 3 or 4 wins this year.

In Palmers situation, its not him thats the problem.

Clearly Peyton has more value to his team than anyone else in the league.

Thats not what Im arguing though.

and Palmer would have more than just 3-4 wins if he played on the COlts.

thats just one of your many retarded statements you've made.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:28 PM
Some of this fan base really is retarded.

ChiefsCountry
12-22-2008, 01:29 PM
ok buddy how do YOU want to compare QBs? i guarantee palmer isnt top5 in any way you can measure by stats AND thats with 2 yes 2 all pro recievers(who would be on most any team)

Use QB rating go ahead - it will show that Elvis Grbac is the same or better than John Elway.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:30 PM
Peyton clearly has more talent around him than Palmer does. Its not even close.

Marvin lost a step but still is one of the better WRs in the NFL

Clark is better than any TE the Bengals ever had in the history if their existence.

Wayne is better than both Ocho Cinco and Housh.

Not to mention Manning almost NEVER gets sacked.

ROFLROFLROFL

All I ask is to watch a Colts game.

Manning almost never gets sacked. Correct. Why? BECAUSE HE FEELS THE FUCKING PRESSURE AND GETS RID OF THE BALL...WATCH A GOD DAMN GAME. This might be his most amazing talent. He is amazing at waiting until the last split second to get rid of the ball...if he does take a sack it's because a lineman flat out missed an assignment...plain and simple.

Wayne is better than CJ and Housh? Why do you say that? Wayne is great...but he drops a lot of passes and he does nothing that tells me he's better than those two...all three are #1 WR's...

Clark is totally overrated. He's a good TE...he catches a lot of passes...but he does nothing that is special. I watch every Colts game...he's not even CLOSE to Tony Gonzalez caliber...not even remotely close.

Peyton Manning makes the players around him an infinite amount of times better.

Carson Palmer makes NO ONE better.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
On Chiefsplanet Carson Palmer sucks and Troy Aikman was just a game manager.....ponder that.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:31 PM
Some of this fan base really is retarded.

This is what you always come back to...

Get off your high horse, I bet you still live with your parents, too.

I can't wait until Palmer sucks again next year. It is going to be great.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 01:32 PM
Hey, wait a minute. This thread is about how god awful the Chiefs defense is. Damn you people with your gnat sized attention spans.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:33 PM
Hey, wait a minute. This thread is about how god awful the Chiefs defense is. Damn you people with your gnat sized attention spans.

Why is it that when anyone says something wildly retarded it usually goes back to Hootie?

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:34 PM
clearly no one has watched a Colts game this year...CoMo just claimed Harrison is still an elite receiver...I can't count on 25 fingers how many times Harrison was wide open for a TD pass this year and he couldn't catch up to a Manning pass...or they were just slightly off...you're telling me this is Manning over Harrison? No way...how about the pass a few weeks ago where Harrison was running for a TD, 10 yards in front of everyone...and was chased down at the 2 by a strong safety?

The dude is slower than hell now and is nothing but another big name with little game...he is going to be cut this offseason.

Watching the Colts...wow. If you think Cassell and the 10-5 Patriots is some sort of a story the fact the Colts are 11-4 with this roster and the same philosophy as Herm fucking Edwards you'd really appreciate what Peyton has done this year...the Colts are easily one of the least talented teams that will be in the playoffs except for one thing...Peyton Manning.

The Colts defense is HORRENDOUS.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:34 PM
Peyton Manning makes the players around him an infinite amount of times better.

Carson Palmer makes NO ONE better.

You act as if no one ever watches the Colts. they're on TV almost every week you homo.

I guess Palmer doesn't make anyone better.......

hmmmm I guess thats why Chad Johnson made the pro bowl this season...........oh wait.......:doh!:

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
Why is it that when anyone says something wildly retarded it usually goes back to Hootie?

you're the one that said you'd trade the Chiefs entire roster for an injury prone, immobile QB that leads his team to 8-8 every year...

aren't you a non-true fan who doesn't want to see mediocrity anymore?

H
Y
P
O
C
R
I
T
E

***Here comes the 'OMG THE FAN BASE IS RETARDED!!!!!' mecca post***

Get a life, douche bag. Do you have a job yet?

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:35 PM
clearly no one has watched a Colts game this year...CoMo just claimed Harrison is still an elite receiver...I can't count on 25 fingers how many times Harrison was wide open for a TD pass this year and he couldn't catch up to a Manning pass...or they were just slightly off...you're telling me this is Manning over Harrison? No way...how about the pass a few weeks ago where Harrison was running for a TD, 10 yards in front of everyone...and was chased down at the 2 by a strong safety?

The dude is slower than hell now and is nothing but another big name with little game...he is going to be cut this offseason.

Watching the Colts...wow. If you think Cassell and the 10-5 Patriots is some sort of a story the fact the Colts are 11-4 with this roster and the same philosophy as Herm ****ing Edwards you'd really appreciate what Peyton has done this year...the Colts are easily one of the least talented teams that will be in the playoffs except for one thing...Peyton Manning.

The Colts defense is HORRENDOUS.

When did I say Harrison was an elite WR? I said he's lost a step but still is one of the better ones out there.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:36 PM
You act as if no one ever watches the Colts. they're on TV almost every week you homo.

I guess Palmer doesn't make anyone better.......

hmmmm I guess thats why Chad Johnson made the pro bowl this season...........oh wait.......:doh!:

Because when Palmer was playing at the beginning of the season Chad Johnson caught how many TD passes? Oh wait...zero. He didn't start catching passes at all until Ryan Fitzpatrick, the worst QB of all time, took over for THE ELITE CARSON PALMER.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:37 PM
When did I say Harrison was an elite WR? I said he's lost a step but still is one of the better ones out there.

how is he one of the better ones out there? Because his name is Marvin Harrison?

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:38 PM
clearly no one has watched a Colts game this year...CoMo just claimed Harrison is still an elite receiver...I can't count on 25 fingers how many times Harrison was wide open for a TD pass this year and he couldn't catch up to a Manning pass...or they were just slightly off...you're telling me this is Manning over Harrison? No way...how about the pass a few weeks ago where Harrison was running for a TD, 10 yards in front of everyone...and was chased down at the 2 by a strong safety?

The dude is slower than hell now and is nothing but another big name with little game...he is going to be cut this offseason.

Watching the Colts...wow. If you think Cassell and the 10-5 Patriots is some sort of a story the fact the Colts are 11-4 with this roster and the same philosophy as Herm ****ing Edwards you'd really appreciate what Peyton has done this year...the Colts are easily one of the least talented teams that will be in the playoffs except for one thing...Peyton Manning.

The Colts defense is HORRENDOUS.

You do know that IND defense is ranked 11th in the NFL right? Not exactly HORRENDOUS, infact we'd all be blowin loads everywhere if the Chiefs defense were ever ranked that high.

Hoover
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
We can bitch about the D all day, I agree they are bad. But its also fair to question why in the hell did we run the ball 12 times with LJ yesterday when its 10 degrees? Our D was on the field way too much because Herm did his best DV impresination.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:40 PM
how is he one of the better ones out there? Because his name is Marvin Harrison?

He's probably better than anyone the Chiefs have

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:42 PM
You do know that IND defense is ranked 11th in the NFL right? Not exactly HORRENDOUS, infact we'd all be blowin loads everywhere if the Chiefs defense were ever ranked that high.

in yards?! Wanna know why...and this will come to a big surprise to you since you don't watch the games...

THE ENTIRE OBJECTIVE OF THE COLTS OPPONENT IS TO RUN THE BALL AND KEEP PEYTON MANNING OFF THE FIELD.

The Colts have the least amount of offensive drives in the NFL because their defense can't get off the field...a higher percent of run plays equals less drives, equals less possessions, equals less points, equals less yards...

The total yards defensive rank is the biggest joke stat in the NFL. The Colts are as bad on 3rd and long as the Chiefs...opposing teams run the ball down the Colts throw to keep Peyton sidelined...when the Packers crushed the Colts the Colts had the ball 4 minutes in the entire first half.

So...watch a game and quit trying to cherry pick stats moron.

InChiefsHell
12-22-2008, 01:43 PM
Not only has the game passed Gunther by, offenses around the league have effectively learned to counter the en vogue Cover 2. And, it doesn't help the Chiefs any by starting a number of guys who wouldn't even be on other NFL rosters.

You mean guys like Kawika Mitchell, or Scott Fujita, or Benny Sapp...or even Ryan Sims, who is playing better in Tampa than he did here...

...I honestly don't think it's a talent issue, it's a coaching and a culture issue...hopefully Clark will change all that...

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:44 PM
Cherry pick stats that sounds familiar....

Also for the record if you really think Palmer is as immobile as Bledsoe that's sad, he's a pocket QB but he's not a statue.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:44 PM
We can bitch about the D all day, I agree they are bad. But its also fair to question why in the hell did we run the ball 12 times with LJ yesterday when its 10 degrees? Our D was on the field way too much because Herm did his best DV impresination.

It's like when we used to run the ball 40 times...people asked why weren't we passing the ball even when it was working.

Obviously we were scoring at will to start the game and we stuck to our gameplan...which was to pass the ball.

Obviously, if we keep Thigpen and the spread...we do need to run some plays from behind center because it's a much more conventional way to run the ball.

This is stuff that can be worked on in training camp and in the offseason...our players are learning this stuff on the fly...I don't think a lot of the 'omg this offense can never work' posters understand this.

HemiEd
12-22-2008, 01:44 PM
He's 28 and he's way more naturally gifted than Green ever was.

By your own standards, in two years he will be old. But, to give him credit, he lit the Chiefs up when he returned from the injury, correct?

Wasn't that the game, Herm was bitching afterwards, about DVs Chiefs running it up, the year before on Cincinatti? Then they punished Herm's Chiefs as revenge.

I was never overly impressed with Green, but he did a good job with the tools he had. Green was a system QB IMO. I thought he was an excellent leader though, excellent.

Brock
12-22-2008, 01:46 PM
You mean guys like Kawika Mitchell, or Scott Fujita, or Benny Sapp...or even Ryan Sims, who is playing better in Tampa than he did here...

...I honestly don't think it's a talent issue, it's a coaching and a culture issue...hopefully Clark will change all that...

That's a fair point, but most or all of those players are just role players on their new teams, and aren't expected to be superstars the way they were here.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:46 PM
By your own standards, in two years he will be old. But, to give him credit, he lit the Chiefs up when he returned from the injury, correct?

Wasn't that the game, Herm was bitching afterwards, about DVs Chiefs running it up, the year before on Cincinatti? Then they punished Herm's Chiefs as revenge.

I was never overly impressed with Green, but he did a good job with the tools he had. Green was a system QB IMO. I thought he was an excellent leader though, excellent.

the Bengals beat the Chiefs when Green got Geathered...but Jared Allen made Carson Palmer his bitch and LJ ran all over the Bengals last year when we beat them.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:47 PM
Kawika has a knack for big plays...he made a big time INT against Denver yesterday.

CoMoChief
12-22-2008, 01:47 PM
in yards?! Wanna know why...and this will come to a big surprise to you since you don't watch the games...

THE ENTIRE OBJECTIVE OF THE COLTS OPPONENT IS TO RUN THE BALL AND KEEP PEYTON MANNING OFF THE FIELD.

The Colts have the least amount of offensive drives in the NFL because their defense can't get off the field...a higher percent of run plays equals less drives, equals less possessions, equals less points, equals less yards...

The total yards defensive rank is the biggest joke stat in the NFL. The Colts are as bad on 3rd and long as the Chiefs...opposing teams run the ball down the Colts throw to keep Peyton sidelined...when the Packers crushed the Colts the Colts had the ball 4 minutes in the entire first half.

So...watch a game and quit trying to cherry pick stats moron.

Ah, so now Peyton helps the defense. God I love where this is going.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 01:48 PM
By your own standards, in two years he will be old. But, to give him credit, he lit the Chiefs up when he returned from the injury, correct?

Wasn't that the game, Herm was bitching afterwards, about DVs Chiefs running it up, the year before on Cincinatti? Then they punished Herm's Chiefs as revenge.

I was never overly impressed with Green, but he did a good job with the tools he had. Green was a system QB IMO. I thought he was an excellent leader though, excellent.

NO NO, QB's play at a high level for a longer period of time, QB's and OT's can be signed to longer contracts because they will generally be productive into their 30's.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:48 PM
Ah, so now Peyton helps the defense. God I love where this is going.

where the fuck did I say that?

I said Peyton wins despite having an awful defense...the fact the Chiefs rely on Thigpen to do the same thing is ridiculous.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 01:52 PM
You do know that IND defense is ranked 11th in the NFL right? Not exactly HORRENDOUS, infact we'd all be blowin loads everywhere if the Chiefs defense were ever ranked that high.

They're ranked 11th. Period. Teams attack the Chiefs the same way, and they're 32nd. Their D is not Horrendous. They just aren't that great.

And I would take Palmer in a milli-second. You people who think he washed up are in for a big surprise. He's a top 5 QB without a doubt, and probably top 3 in terms of talent.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 01:53 PM
If I had the choice between Carson Palmer and drafting a QB with say...the 25th pick in the draft I'd immediately take the 25th pick without thinking twice.

Every single QB that is successful in today's game and is a 'franchise' QB can move in the pocket...Palmer can't. He's the next Drew Bledsoe...Bledsoe was awesome before the hybrid DE's became a fixture on NFL defenses...then he became a downright liability...look at what Tony Romo has done for that team...and what can he do? Make plays with his feet.

I wouldn't use Tony Romo has any kind of example he chokes more than any QB playing today

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:54 PM
They're ranked 11th. Period. Teams attack the Chiefs the same way, and they're 32nd. Their D is not Horrendous. They just aren't that great.

And I would take Palmer in a milli-second. You people who think he washed up are in for a big surprise. He's a top 5 QB without a doubt, and probably top 3 in terms of talent.

ROFL

And teams aren't afraid of Tyler Thigpen so they don't make it a point to go on 15 play, 10 minute drives like the opposition does against the Colts.

Watch the Colts defense for a game...it's like watching the Chiefs...and since these are the two teams I watch I'm always disgusted by defense at the end of the day on Sunday.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:57 PM
I wouldn't use Tony Romo has any kind of example he chokes more than any QB playing today

That's a joke.

He botched a field goal snap two years ago...why the hell is your starting QB your placeholder?

and last year, against the Giants, he played a HELL of a game in the playoffs.

He was literally the only Cowboy to show up that game...and like I said earlier...had Crayton not dropped the sure fire dagger when Romo made a remarkable throw and scramble the Cowboys would have lost to the Pats and the Pats would have been 19-0 last year.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 01:58 PM
it's the dumbshits that only go by name recognition and what the media makes you believe that are in this thread...

I know, Carson Palmer was a former #1 pick...but so was David Carr.

Palmer is flat out average...and he'll be a backup QB in the next 2 or 3 years. His breed of QB is done. You have to be at least somewhat mobile with the way freakish athletes are being used on defense today.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 01:59 PM
They're ranked 11th. Period. Teams attack the Chiefs the same way, and they're 32nd. Their D is not Horrendous. They just aren't that great.

And I would take Palmer in a milli-second. You people who think he washed up are in for a big surprise. He's a top 5 QB without a doubt, and probably top 3 in terms of talent.

please show me ANYTHING he has ever done to warrant such high praise.


LETS PUT IT THIS WAY we draft a qb #3 5 years in he has the exact same stats and career palmer has. he's not from usc. do you feel as though we did good with our pick?

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:00 PM
7-9, 8-8, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8, 0 and whatever he was this year before he got hurt...

Yeah, top 3 QB right there!

Franchise QB's win football games. Carson Palmer is not one of those.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 02:01 PM
it's the dumbshits that only go by name recognition and what the media makes you believe that are in this thread...

I know, Carson Palmer was a former #1 pick...but so was David Carr.

Palmer is flat out average...and he'll be a backup QB in the next 2 or 3 years. His breed of QB is done. You have to be at least somewhat mobile with the way freakish athletes are being used on defense today.

Palmer can maneuver in the pocket. You're wrong about his future.

Disclaimer: I am a fan with an opinion. Just like everyone else here.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 02:01 PM
7-9, 8-8, 11-5, 8-8, 8-8, 0 and whatever he was this year before he got hurt...

Yeah, top 3 QB right there!

Franchise QB's win football games. Carson Palmer is not one of those.

He plays for the Bungles. Nuff said.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:01 PM
I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with a QB that hits about 64% has 4000 yards and a 28-13 TD/INT ratio.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:02 PM
Palmer can maneuver in the pocket. You're wrong about his future.

Disclaimer: I am a fan with an opinion. Just like everyone else here.

the dude has no pocket awareness whatsoever...and he fumbles like Dave Krieg.

and he's injury prone.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:02 PM
I'm pretty sure most people would be happy with a QB that hits about 64% has 4000 yards and a 28-13 TD/INT ratio.

until you look at those 15 fumbles...and then the 20 picks the next year.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:03 PM
the dude has no pocket awareness whatsoever...and he fumbles like Dave Krieg.

and he's injury prone.

LOL...like I said better take Moon out of the hall then cause he fumbled alot. And this is still the first year he's actually missed games due to injury, yea heavily injury prone.

Palmer is also not nearly as immobile as you make him out to be...

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:04 PM
Look Hootie if you are going to make that argument than every QB that has suited up for the Chiefs since 2000 sucks ass because they couldn't win games with a bad defense.

Cornstock
12-22-2008, 02:06 PM
This Cover 2 is really starting to piss me off. On 3rd and 10 you know exactly what the opposing offense is going to do: either throw a lob right down the middle of the field over the MLB's head and between the 2 safteys (usually made all the easier because Gunther will bring a SS on 3rd down and the FS will be up in the box, leaving him a lot of ground to cover to be in position), or throw a 10 and out/curl just outside the OLB and inside the corner.

Just go back and watch and particular 3rd down play, i think you'll agree with me.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
On a 3rd-and-13 play from the Dallas 17 late in the third quarter, Crayton bobbled a pass from quarterback Tony Romo on a crossing pattern and dropped it.

If he had caught the pass, Crayton may have turned the play into a long gain - perhaps even a game-clinching touchdown.

Instead, the Cowboys were forced to punt and seven plays later the Giants scored to take the lead for good, 21-17.

In total, the wide receiver, who had stirred up a war of words with the Giants leading up to the game, finished with a pair of huge drops and muffed a punt.

People blame Tony Romo for the loss last season but that's just plain absurd. On that 3rd and 13 play, he amazingly escaped about 19 blitzers and made one of the greatest improvisational plays I've ever seen to a wide open Crayton who had nothing but green grass in front of him and the dude dropped it.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 02:07 PM
until you look at those 15 fumbles...and then the 20 picks the next year.

A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:09 PM
Look Hootie if you are going to make that argument than every QB that has suited up for the Chiefs since 2000 sucks ass because they couldn't win games with a bad defense.

Green was a good QB, but overrated and pretty much just a system QB. He obviously wasn't a franchise QB.

Huard sucked and everyone knows that. Croyle sucks...

Thigpen at least has potential.

We're looking for a franchise QB...right?

I doubt Thigpen turns out to be a franchise QB, but he does have potential and he's played very well considering Herm Edwards is the coach and the circumstance he was thrown into.

He should get an A on his postseason grade...that's for sure.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:09 PM
A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

Hootie is enamored with the running QB....people have been saying that kinda shit for years you notice the best QB's in the league are still pocket guys.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:09 PM
A lot of the great QBs have a bad INT year. It's not like he did that most of the years he has played.

I think 2005, and 2006 is more of what Palmer is, and I guarantee he has more seasons at that kind of production. He's still young, and he can still play.

We'll see...

I bet the Bengals win about 6 games next year and Palmer has another shit year...follows that up with another one in 2010 and he'll be done.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:10 PM
Hootie is enamored with the running QB....people have been saying that kinda shit for years you notice the best QB's in the league are still pocket guys.

No I'm not...

I'm enamored with guys like Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger...guys who can manipulate the coverage with their feet and buy time for their receivers to get open and make plays.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:11 PM
Yea Palmer is gonna be out of the league at 30 while Kerry Collins is still around at 35 while never being remotely as good as Palmer ever.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:11 PM
and Thigpen has rarely ran the ball this year on plays that weren't designed for him to run...he looks to pass first...

He reminds me of Donovan McNabb McNabb's rookie and sophomore season.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:11 PM
No I'm not...

I'm enamored with guys like Tony Romo, Jay Cutler, Ben Roethlisberger...guys who can manipulate the coverage with their feet and buy time for their receivers to get open and make plays.

You know Jay Cutler turns the ball over an awful lot right...weren't you just bagging on someone for that...

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:12 PM
In fact, Donovan in 2000 (his 2nd year) and Thigpen this year have pretty similar stat sheets if you stretch them over 16 games and Donovan was widely praised that year as a future stud QB.

The only reason everyone is down on Thigpen is because he's a 7th round pick...if he was 15th overall everyone would be stoked about the guys progress.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 02:13 PM
That's a joke.

He botched a field goal snap two years ago...why the hell is your starting QB your placeholder?

and last year, against the Giants, he played a HELL of a game in the playoffs.

He was literally the only Cowboy to show up that game...and like I said earlier...had Crayton not dropped the sure fire dagger when Romo made a remarkable throw and scramble the Cowboys would have lost to the Pats and the Pats would have been 19-0 last year.

It is not a joke.

He has a label of choker on him because he is...so far. In that Giants game last year he threw an INT in the end zone to seal the game for the Giants. If he had thrown a TD they would have won.

He could have gotten the Cowboys in the playoffs this week but he choked that as well by throwing 2 INT's.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:15 PM
You know Jay Cutler turns the ball over an awful lot right...weren't you just bagging on someone for that...

Cutler has the tools for today's NFL...

Palmer doesn't.

You have to be able to manipulate the coverage...Palmer can't do it. Opposing defenses have to respect Cutler and keep containment for the bootleg...which also opens up running lanes...I don't think anyone is worried about any sort of a bootleg from Carson Palmer.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:15 PM
In fact, Donovan in 2000 (his 2nd year) and Thigpen this year have pretty similar stat sheets if you stretch them over 16 games and Donovan was widely praised that year as a future stud QB.

The only reason everyone is down on Thigpen is because he's a 7th round pick...if he was 15th overall everyone would be stoked about the guys progress.

Donovan McNabb was playing under center in Andy Reid's west coast offense..Tyler Thigpen is playing in the gimmick, it's not just about stats here.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 02:15 PM
Peyton Manning threw 19 INTs his 5th year in the league.

Palmer threw 20 INTs his 5th year in the league........big difference huh?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:16 PM
Cutler has the tools for today's NFL...

Palmer doesn't.

You have to be able to manipulate the coverage...Palmer can't do it. Opposing defenses have to respect Cutler and keep containment for the bootleg...which also opens up running lanes...I don't think anyone is worried about any sort of a bootleg from Carson Palmer.

You know Carson Palmer isn't nearly as immobile as you think he is...he moved around quite alot in college, in 2006 he didn't because he was coming off an ACL but he is not nearly as immobile as he was that 1 season which contributed to his fumbles.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:18 PM
It is not a joke.

He has a label of choker on him because he is...so far. In that Giants game last year he threw an INT in the end zone to seal the game for the Giants. If he had thrown a TD they would have won.

He could have gotten the Cowboys in the playoffs this week but he choked that as well by throwing 2 INT's.

You mean on a 4th down on the last play of the game? Those are real high percentage situations.

The Cowboys play the Giants 10 times in the playoffs last year they win 9.5 of them...the defense allowing a TD at the end of the half when they had a 14-3 lead with 0:45 when they scored their 2nd TD was a huge momentum changer...and the fact they could have gone up 28-17 with 5 minutes left had Crayton not dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands is the reason they lost that game. It had nothing to do with Romo...who played a damn gritty game with that relentless pass rush...he played a far superior game to that of Tom Brady against that same defense in the Super Bowl...is Tom Brady a choker?

The Cowboys still control their fate this week...we'll see how he does.

As for last year...he was not a choker in the playoffs. Don't let the media feed you that bullshit...sometimes it's cool to watch games and form your own opinions...lay off of the Skip Bayless bullshit.

Skip will make you believe T.O. is an average WR at best when he's been the best damn receiver in the NFL for a LONG time.

Brock
12-22-2008, 02:18 PM
He looks big and slow, but so does Manning. I wouldn't write him off yet, but it does appear he's on the downside.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:19 PM
Donovan McNabb was playing under center in Andy Reid's west coast offense..Tyler Thigpen is playing in the gimmick, it's not just about stats here.

the west coast was a gimmick before it became a staple, at least that's what the old timers tell me

Chiefnj2
12-22-2008, 02:20 PM
A gimmick that can put up 31 points against one of the better D's in the league is a decent gimmick.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:21 PM
I was just looking at Peyton's stats...he has 1 fumble in the last 3 years...god damnit he's good.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:23 PM
A gimmick that can put up 31 points against one of the better D's in the league is a decent gimmick.

funny thing is...

Thigpen and the offense could have played two complete halves and these people would still write him off...

I don't know what to think...the 2nd half has become a definite worry sign...I won't lie...but at this point, he pretty much has to be the starter in 2009...and I'm open to drafting a QB #3 overall or waiting until the 2nd or 3rd round...or bringing in an Alex Smith if we keep Gailey and the spread as a viable backup to see if we can win games using a 'gimmick' offense.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 02:23 PM
You mean on a 4th down on the last play of the game? Those are real high percentage situations.

The Cowboys play the Giants 10 times in the playoffs last year they win 9.5 of them...the defense allowing a TD at the end of the half when they had a 14-3 lead with 0:45 when they scored their 2nd TD was a huge momentum changer...and the fact they could have gone up 28-17 with 5 minutes left had Crayton not dropped a pass that hit him right in the hands is the reason they lost that game. It had nothing to do with Romo...who played a damn gritty game with that relentless pass rush...he played a far superior game to that of Tom Brady against that same defense in the Super Bowl...is Tom Brady a choker?

The Cowboys still control their fate this week...we'll see how he does.

As for last year...he was not a choker in the playoffs. Don't let the media feed you that bullshit...sometimes it's cool to watch games and form your own opinions...lay off of the Skip Bayless bullshit.

Skip will make you believe T.O. is an average WR at best when he's been the best damn receiver in the NFL for a LONG time.

When Romo wins a SB then he will not be a choker. The same label was applied to Peyton until he won one.

I think the Cowboys play the Eagles this week in Philly so let's see how he does but I have a feeling I already know the outcome. :D

the Talking Can
12-22-2008, 02:23 PM
On the way to the airport I was listening to Soren and Lenny. While Lenny was a bit more critical of Thigy, both said this game was not the fault of the offense. 500 yard and 31 points should never net you a loss.

Lenny reminded us what some here tried to say yesterday, "offense is fun to watch but defense wins games".

Miami had the ball for 12 minutes in the 4th quarter. That says it right there. That is the game. This offense battled back from poor special teams play and defensive play (opening play), to hand the defense yet another lead.

Both said Thigy's performance is expected for a 1st year QB. Did he make dumb throws? Yes. Should he have had more INT's? Yes. But as Soren pointed out, Pennignton also got away with 2 or 3 balls that were tipped and close to being picked off.


Bottom line is the offense has been moving the ball and scoring and the defense has yet to hold a lead. Again as Lenny said, you can't keep trying to outscore your opponents ala DV. Defense has to show up and play.

neither think Thigpen is the QBOTF

Petro has said repeatedly that you have to draft Bradford or Stafford (petro prefers bradford), he said so again today.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:24 PM
funny thing is...

Thigpen and the offense could have played two complete halves and these people would still write him off...

I don't know what to think...the 2nd half has become a definite worry sign...I won't lie...but at this point, he pretty much has to be the starter in 2009...and I'm open to drafting a QB #3 overall or waiting until the 2nd or 3rd round...or bringing in an Alex Smith if we keep Gailey and the spread as a viable backup to see if we can win games using a 'gimmick' offense.

If you think a new coach isn't going to run most of the offense from under center I have some bad news...

the Talking Can
12-22-2008, 02:24 PM
When Romo wins a SB then he will not be a choker. The same label was applied to Peyton until he won one.

I think the Cowboys play the Eagles this week in Philly so let's see how he does but I have a feeling I already know the outcome. :D

Romo can't win a playoff game.

Dallas may not even make the playoffs this year.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:26 PM
If you think a new coach isn't going to run most of the offense from under center I have some bad news...

who says the new coach won't retain Gailey?

I am up for anything...I'm not sold on Gailey, I'm not sold on Herm, I'm wait and see...if a new coach comes in with new assistants I'll be excited to see what happens...as of now this is what we have so this is what I am talking about.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:28 PM
When Romo wins a SB then he will not be a choker. The same label was applied to Peyton until he won one.

I think the Cowboys play the Eagles this week in Philly so let's see how he does but I have a feeling I already know the outcome. :D

Tom Brady won those Super Bowls because he was clutch?! Holy christ how hard is it to drive 20 yards into field goal range and watch Vinatieri do his thing?

It's sickening that a QB can be labeled a choker when the rest of his team lets him down...

If anyone watched that Giants/Cowboys game last year and came to the conclusion they lost because of Tony Romo they are downright dumb.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 02:28 PM
neither think Thigpen is the QBOTF

Petro has said repeatedly that you have to draft Bradford or Stafford (petro prefers bradford), he said so again today.

Christ, I hate it when people start up with the draft Bradford crap. He has a line that is NFL worthy. ALL of them. No QB in college had the luxury he did by playing behind that line. How many times did he get sacked this year? 10 or less?

I can absolutely see him pulling an Alex Smith if he goes top 5.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:28 PM
Christ, I hate it when people start up with the draft Bradford crap. He has a line that is NFL worthy. ALL of them. No QB in college had the luxury he did by playing behind that line. How many times did he get sacked this year? 10 or less?

I can absolutely see him pulling an Alex Smith if he goes top 5.

He plays in the Big 12 they've all likely seen him more.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:30 PM
apparently Mark Sanchez has bust written all over him...I liked the guy but I guess he has a long delivery and is rather unimpressive...I don't ever watch him so I don't know...just repeating what I heard...but makes sense, USC likes to produce those QB busts.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:31 PM
who would have thought out of Palmer, Leinart and Cassell Cassell would have turned out the best?

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:32 PM
Oh for the love of christ.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 02:33 PM
Tom Brady won those Super Bowls because he was clutch?! Holy christ how hard is it to drive 20 yards into field goal range and watch Vinatieri do his thing?

It's sickening that a QB can be labeled a choker when the rest of his team lets him down...



Yes Tom Brady is clutch and is a sure-fire 1st ballot HOF.

Yet you are on here claiming Carson Palmer sucks when the rest of his team lets him down...specifically the shitty D they have had the last 5 years.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:34 PM
Oh for the love of christ.

Leinart riding pine on a mediocre Cardinals team...

Palmer playing so poorly the team blamed it on a fake injury and benched him...

and Matt Cassell...backup to both...plays pro bowl caliber football and leads the Patriots to a potential 11 win season...

looks like USC was playing the wrong guy

Bowser
12-22-2008, 02:34 PM
who would have thought out of Palmer, Leinart and Cassell Cassell would have turned out the best?


Now you're just trying to piss him off.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Yes Tom Brady is clutch and is a sure-fire 1st ballot HOF.

Yet you are on here claiming Carson Palmer sucks when the rest of his team lets him down...specifically the shitty D they have had the last 5 years.

the rest of his team doesn't turn the ball over 20-25 times a season...

If Tony Romo is a choker...at least he puts himself in position to choke...Palmer doesn't even sniff the playoffs...real great for a 'franchise' QB.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Now you're just trying to piss him off.
Yeah I know.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:35 PM
Leinart riding pine on a mediocre Cardinals team...

Palmer playing so poorly the team blamed it on a fake injury and benched him...

and Matt Cassell...backup to both...plays pro bowl caliber football and leads the Patriots to a potential 11 win season...

looks like USC was playing the wrong guy

Those back to back national titles really sucked....

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:36 PM
Those back to back national titles really sucked....

Ken Dorsey was 39-2 in college.

Mecca
12-22-2008, 02:39 PM
Ken Dorsey was 39-2 in college.

Which means in college they started the right guy......I know you're just trying to annoy me here.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:40 PM
Which means in college they started the right guy......I know you're just trying to annoy me here.

Maybe USC had it right in college...Leinart and Palmer were good college QB's...just not good NFL QB's.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 02:41 PM
the rest of his team doesn't turn the ball over 20-25 times a season...

If Tony Romo is a choker...at least he puts himself in position to choke...Palmer doesn't even sniff the playoffs...real great for a 'franchise' QB.

No they give up an ungodly amount of points therefore putting pressure on the QB and the offense to keep up.

We have seen first hand how that turns out.

Listen I don't know if Palmer is washed up and I am pretty sure Romo will start winning playoff games but when you make these wild statements you come off looking silly.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 02:42 PM
No they give up an ungodly amount of points therefore putting pressure on the QB and the offense to keep up.

We have seen first hand how that turns out.

Listen I don't know if Palmer is washed up and I am pretty sure Romo will start winning playoff games but when you make these wild statements you come off looking silly.

well I'll look pretty smart next year when Palmer continues to suck.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 02:46 PM
well I'll look pretty smart next year when Palmer continues to suck.

or you will look pretty dumb when he doesn't

just saying...:shrug:

DaneMcCloud
12-22-2008, 02:47 PM
the rest of his team doesn't turn the ball over 20-25 times a season...

If Tony Romo is a choker...at least he puts himself in position to choke...Palmer doesn't even sniff the playoffs...real great for a 'franchise' QB.

If Romo played for the Bengals, they'd have 2 wins this year.

If a healthy Carson Palmer played for the Cowboys, they'd have at least 12.

Bowser
12-22-2008, 02:48 PM
And Dane shows up with kindling for the fire.

Hydrae
12-22-2008, 03:12 PM
I am trying to understand. Palmer is a great QB but can't win because the rest of the team sucks. So I would guess that drafting a great QB isn't the end all that some here seem to be wanting.

Brady is a low level draft pick but is a great because of the rest of the team around him. That certainly would explain why a Cassell can come off the bench and win with that same team.

But with the Chiefs, it is all about drafting a stud QB to take us to the Super Bowl rather than shoring up the obvious weaker areas on the team. Sounds to me like this is the Bengals approach that doesn't seem to have worked. :shrug:

Brock
12-22-2008, 03:20 PM
I am trying to understand. Palmer is a great QB but can't win because the rest of the team sucks. So I would guess that drafting a great QB isn't the end all that some here seem to be wanting.

Brady is a low level draft pick but is a great because of the rest of the team around him. That certainly would explain why a Cassell can come off the bench and win with that same team.

But with the Chiefs, it is all about drafting a stud QB to take us to the Super Bowl rather than shoring up the obvious weaker areas on the team. Sounds to me like this is the Bengals approach that doesn't seem to have worked. :shrug:

The Bengals are a losing team for various reasons, none of which have much to do with the talent level on their team.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 03:32 PM
If Romo played for the Bengals, they'd have 2 wins this year.

If a healthy Carson Palmer played for the Cowboys, they'd have at least 12.

:banghead:

That is so dumb...we saw how good they were before Romo with Bledsoe at the helm...

Tony Romo is constantly running for his life...the Cowboys are a horrendous pass blocking team...you really think that would be a good fit for Palmer?

I'll take this out of the book of DaneMcCloud...

JFC

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 03:33 PM
If Romo played for the Bengals, they'd have 2 wins this year.

If a healthy Carson Palmer played for the Cowboys, they'd have at least 12.

and they have what, 3 wins and a tie with Ryan Fitzpatrick...

you're trying to tell me Fitzpatrick is better than Romo?

Wow.

Short Leash Hootie
12-22-2008, 03:34 PM
And Dane shows up with kindling for the fire.

what Dane said was easily dumber than anything Mecca or I said the entire thread.

That includes trading the entire Chiefs roster for Palmer and taking Thigpen over Palmer.

Hydrae
12-22-2008, 03:34 PM
The Bengals are a losing team for various reasons, none of which have much to do with the talent level on their team.

That is very true and leads one to think that we can't really evaluate this team properly given the coaching staff we have currently.

dirk digler
12-22-2008, 03:35 PM
The Bengals are a losing team for various reasons, none of which have much to do with the talent level on their team.

Next to the Lions they are one of the most inept franchises in the NFL.

Mike Brown couldn't run a lemonade stand let alone run a successful NFL franchise.

Detoxing
12-22-2008, 03:36 PM
That is very true and leads one to think that we can't really evaluate this team properly given the coaching staff we have currently.

Won't need to worry about that much longer

googlegoogle
12-22-2008, 04:14 PM
Herm has to get credit for finding Thigpen.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 04:23 PM
Herm has to get credit for finding Thigpen.

Actually, I believe it was Carl, but I could be wrong.

OnTheWarpath58
12-22-2008, 05:00 PM
Wow, this thread is prime with stupidity.

I think it's fair to say that the truth lies in the middle.

Palmer is no where near as bad as Hootie claims, yet no where near as good as Mecca claims.

One thing I've noticed about the QB talk here as of late:

There are plenty of excuses to go around if your speaking about a QB you like, but when the conversation shifts to a QB you don't like, you blast people for making excuses.

beach tribe
12-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Wow, this thread is prime with stupidity.

I think it's fair to say that the truth lies in the middle.

Palmer is no where near as bad as Hootie claims, yet no where near as good as Mecca claims.

One thing I've noticed about the QB talk here as of late:

There are plenty of excuses to go around if your speaking about a QB you like, but when the conversation shifts to a QB you don't like, you blast people for making excuses.

Yep. Everything is either one extreme or the other. One QB is bashed for something, but the reason for whatever the complaint one has about a QB can be overlooked on the QB that is being backed.

Baby Lee
12-22-2008, 05:05 PM
Seems more like we have a team with the conditioning to compete for a half, more than adjustments by the other team. If it were adjustments alone, there'd be a team or two fully prepped from the get go as the season wore on.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 05:24 PM
Yea Palmer is gonna be out of the league at 30 while Kerry Collins is still around at 35 while never being remotely as good as Palmer ever.

REALLY? a guy who has been in a super bowl AND has what 37,000 career yards is not even remotely as good as a guy who has played almost half as long and has 15,000 yards AND has NEVER sniffed a super bowl?:rolleyes:

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 05:29 PM
If Romo played for the Bengals, they'd have 2 wins this year.

If a healthy Carson Palmer played for the Cowboys, they'd have at least 12.

GOTTA disagree here dane, do you think ryan fitzpatrick is better than romo?
and palmer has been hurt.

JASONSAUTO
12-22-2008, 05:32 PM
Wow, this thread is prime with stupidity.

I think it's fair to say that the truth lies in the middle.

Palmer is no where near as bad as Hootie claims, yet no where near as good as Mecca claims.

One thing I've noticed about the QB talk here as of late:

There are plenty of excuses to go around if your speaking about a QB you like, but when the conversation shifts to a QB you don't like, you blast people for making excuses.

true true, hell i started using all THEIR reasons against thigpen against palmer(except the shotgun) and they all every one of them said it all didnt matter, still yet not one of them could tell my WHY palmer is a top 5 qb in their minds