Obama's Energy Sec. Wants Gasoline prices to be 3 times higher

[rrl308]

Gasoline where I am is back down to $1.49 a gallon. The national average right now is about $1.65 a gallon.

The Eco-Marxists aren’t happy with the price of gasoline being low. If you remember during the primaries, even Barack Obama said the price wasn’t bad, it just rose too fast.

To the green mafia, the price of gasoline should be so high that people can’t drive to work and have to rely on public transportation. And if the market won’t keep the price high, government will.

Steven Chu is Obama’s nominee for Energy Secretary. Here’s what he thinks about gas prices:

In a sign of one major internal difference, Mr. Chu has called for gradually ramping up gasoline taxes over 15 years to coax consumers into buying more-efficient cars and living in neighborhoods closer to work.

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

The price of petrol in Europe right now is more than three times the price of gasoline in America. So, given Mr. Chu’s preference, instead of paying $1.49 per gallon, I would be paying $4.50 a gallon. Instead of a tank of gas costing me $17 and some change, it would take $54 out of my wallet. For the record that would be $37 in taxes for each tank of gas I buy.

Believe it or not, this is what the environmentalists voted for. This is exactly what they want from an Obama government. This is the change they believed in, and we can expect more of the same across the board.

Posted by Duane Lester on Dec 18th, 2008

http://www.allamericanblogger.com/5786/obamas-energy-sec-wants-gasoline-price-increase-of-300/

[ClevelandBronco]

"Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe," Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

-------

And somehow, Mr. Chu, you'll have to come to understand that the U.S. isn't European, and it doesn't want to be.

[ClevelandBronco]

Chances are very good that Mr. Chu will back off his statement now that he's a member of the political class.

He was only flexing teacher muscles. They are the most accomplished of schoolyard bullies.

[AndChiefs]

And the fact that Europe is much smaller with a better public transit system probably never crossed Chu's mind. Thank you Mr. Chu but i'd prefer not to spend 6 hours a day getting the 25 miles to/from work.

[Guru]

Boy I do love how government takes care of its own.

[banyon]

And the fact that Europe is much smaller with a better public transit system probably never crossed Chu's mind. Thank you Mr. Chu but i'd prefer not to spend 6 hours a day getting the 25 miles to/from work.

What?

[banyon]

I think it's pretty clear that the high prices shaped the political campaign and actually had us thinking about doing things differently with respect to energy. Now that it's cheap again, I guess it's just business as usual until the next price rise (which China and India make inevitable).

[MagicHef]

My work is a 15 minute drive from where I live, I'd rather do that than the 1 hour 56 minute bus ride (according to Google Maps).

[whatsmynameagain]

And the fact that Europe is much smaller with a better public transit system probably never crossed Chu's mind. Thank you Mr. Chu but i'd prefer not to spend 6 hours a day getting the 25 miles to/from work.

move closer to your job numbnuts. if we raised the price more intiative would go towards building better public transit. im sure this nobel prize winning physicist had no clue on the euro model. are you that ****ing stupid?

[LOCOChief]

move closer to your job numbnuts. if we raised the price more intiative would go towards building better public transit. im sure this nobel prize winning physicist had no clue on the euro model. are you that ****ing stupid?

If WE raise the price? Who the ##ck are you? Take more of my tax dollars to curb my petro consumption? Public transit is not and will not be a viable option for everyone dickhead. You better believe any relief provided by the reduction in oil prices right now is needed by every sector.
Here's some good advice: take a bath and get a job you **cking hippie!

[Ultra Peanut]

The Eco-Marxists aren’t happy with the price of gasoline being low. oh boy, here comes a great article

[mikey23545]

The Eco-Marxists aren’t happy with the price of gasoline being low. If you remember during the primaries, even Barack Obama said the price wasn’t bad, it just rose too fast.

To the green mafia, the price of gasoline should be so high that people can’t drive to work and have to rely on public transportation. And if the market won’t keep the price high, government will.

http://www.allamericanblogger.com/5786/obamas-energy-sec-wants-gasoline-price-increase-of-300/

Resistance is futile.
You will be assimilated.

[AndChiefs]

move closer to your job numbnuts. if we raised the price more intiative would go towards building better public transit. im sure this nobel prize winning physicist had no clue on the euro model. are you that ****ing stupid?

Yep selling my house is certainly an option right now isn't it? What a great idea.

Guess what, I work for a retail company that operates all over the metro area. At any time I can be transferred to a new location with no notice. Back when I rented apartments I tried moving closer to work. Within a month I had been transferred back the other direction, meaning the 10 miles I moved closer was actually 10 miles farther to my new place.

Also bus and transit lines are very convoluted in trying to get from where I live to the side of town where I currently work. Sure I may get transferred to somewhere that is more public transit friendly, however, it's not an option right now.

However, improve the public transit and I'd be all for it. For now, this is not an option.

[whatsmynameagain]

If WE raise the price? Who the ##ck are you? Take more of my tax dollars to curb my petro consumption? Public transit is not and will not be a viable option for everyone dickhead. You better believe any relief provided by the reduction in oil prices right now is needed by every sector.
Here's some good advice: take a bath and get a job you **cking hippie!

i took a shower at 5:50am this morning before coming into work. nice insult!

IF WE DONT CHANGE HOW WE DO THINGS, WE WILL GO UNDER. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, AND PULL THE DICK OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. MAYBE ONE DAY YOULL GET TIRED OF FUCKING YOURSELF.

[Brock]

Public transportation is great for big cities, but what about the other 95 percent of the country?

[Donger]

“Somehow we have to figure out how to boost the price of gasoline to the levels in Europe,” Mr. Chu, who directs the Lawrence Berkeley National Laboratory in California, said in an interview with The Wall Street Journal in September.

Considering our march toward socialism, he may get his wish.

[LOCOChief]

i took a shower at 5:50am this morning before coming into work. nice insult!

IF WE DONT CHANGE HOW WE DO THINGS, WE WILL GO UNDER. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, AND PULL THE DICK OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. MAYBE ONE DAY YOULL GET TIRED OF ****ING YOURSELF.


I'm not the one who calls someone a dumbass because they don't have the ability to move closer to their job. You're a puss, **ck you, I would love to say that to your face.

[whatsmynameagain]

Yep selling my house is certainly an option right now isn't it? What a great idea.

Guess what, I work for a retail company that operates all over the metro area. At any time I can be transferred to a new location with no notice. Back when I rented apartments I tried moving closer to work. Within a month I had been transferred back the other direction, meaning the 10 miles I moved closer was actually 10 miles farther to my new place.

Also bus and transit lines are very convoluted in trying to get from where I live to the side of town where I currently work. Sure I may get transferred to somewhere that is more public transit friendly, however, it's not an option right now.

However, improve the public transit and I'd be all for it. For now, this is not an option.

so we both agree, public transit will not be possible without major changes. how are we going to implement and improve our current system without actions like the ones mr chu proposed?

it amazes me the selfishness and entitlement that people feel they have. i understand its hard not to live in the here and now but at some point we really need to look to the future and prepare for it so that the next generation has a chance.

[whatsmynameagain]

I'm not the one who calls someone a dumbass because they don't have the ability to move closer to their job. You're a puss, **ck you, I would love to say that to your face.

i didnt call him a dumbass for that. i called him a dumbass because he said that mr. chu is unaware of the euro model. mr. chu is a physicist and i replied with the dumbfuck mark.

im about to run by the mall on my lunch break for some last minute shopping, want me to get you some sort of reading comprehension software? I would love to give it to you in person so you can talk to my face.

[AndChiefs]

so we both agree, public transit will not be possible without major changes. how are we going to implement and improve our current system without actions like the ones mr chu proposed?

it amazes me the selfishness and entitlement that people feel they have. i understand its hard not to live in the here and now but at some point we really need to look to the future and prepare for it so that the next generation has a chance.

Personally, I prefer subway systems (I especially like London's). However, even with Mr. Chu's proposed ideas and influx of cash into taxes (most of which probably won't go into transit) I doubt that situation is feasible simply because of the size of our metro areas. A 3 million person metro area in Europe is crammed into a much smaller space then the US making it much easier to build a mass transit system that can benefit the masses.

However, as an example for how bad our current system is...an employee where i currently work doesn't have a car and got evicted from her apartment. She found a new apartment about a 10-15 minute drive away (the only one she can find). While she can take buses, they don't run at certain times of day on weekends. Since she always worked Saturday-Sunday she now loses some shifts because she is unable to get into work making her money problems even worse. Sure, some of it is her fault but it's still a major problem.

In essence, while I believe changes in our mass transit system is necessary, I don't think trying to break the bank of my middle-class self and others like me through raising my cost of gas 3x (think about cost of airline tickets then as well, flying to see my parents in Nebraska would probably be horrific) is not the way to go. Sure, the riches won't have a problem coping but all it will do is raise the amount of people that are having problems keeping up.

[MagicHef]

Personally, I prefer subway systems (I especially like London's). However, even with Mr. Chu's proposed ideas and influx of cash into taxes (most of which probably won't go into transit) I doubt that situation is feasible simply because of the size of our metro areas. A 3 million person metro area in Europe is crammed into a much smaller space then the US making it much easier to build a mass transit system that can benefit the masses.

However, as an example for how bad our current system is...an employee where i currently work doesn't have a car and got evicted from her apartment. She found a new apartment about a 10-15 minute drive away (the only one she can find). While she can take buses, they don't run at certain times of day on weekends. Since she always worked Saturday-Sunday she now loses some shifts because she is unable to get into work making her money problems even worse. Sure, some of it is her fault but it's still a major problem.

In essence, while I believe changes in our mass transit system is necessary, I don't think trying to break the bank of my middle-class self and others like me through raising my cost of gas 3x (think about cost of airline tickets then as well, flying to see my parents in Nebraska would probably be horrific) is not the way to go. Sure, the riches won't have a problem coping but all it will do is raise the amount of people that are having problems keeping up.

Also, any product that required shipping or transport would become more expensive. Nothing important, just stuff like food.

[AndChiefs]

Also, any product that required shipping or transport would become more expensive. Nothing important, just stuff like food.

True, another thing I meant to bring up. Our warehouse/distribution center is located in northern California. Do you think prices would stay the same at our stores when gas is three times as expensive?

[talastan]

Also, any product that required shipping or transport would become more expensive. Nothing important, just stuff like food.

Nothing like rampant inflation!! Yippie....Boy sounds like the Carter years already.

[FishingRod]

Call me selfish but, I would rather spend/save the money I earn as I see fit. I'm not really a fan of the Government taking even more of my income and for my own good. No thank you. Now if the rest of you are filled with the spirit of giving, by all means send an extra $40 to uncle Sam every time you fill up. I would rather spend the money on A nice steak and a couple of beers.

[Garcia Bronco]

From the link in the bloggers(Please stop quoting these dumbasses, quote yourself) own waste of space

"But Mr. Obama has dismissed the idea of boosting the federal gasoline tax, a move energy experts say could be the single most effective step to promote alternative energies and temper demand. Mr. Obama said Sunday that a heightened gas tax would be a "mistake" because it would put "additional burdens on American families right now.""

http://sec.online.wsj.com/article/SB122904040307499791.html

[Garcia Bronco]

so we both agree, public transit will not be possible without major changes. how are we going to implement and improve our current system without actions like the ones mr chu proposed?

it amazes me the selfishness and entitlement that people feel they have. i understand its hard not to live in the here and now but at some point we really need to look to the future and prepare for it so that the next generation has a chance.

It's not your business where the man lives or how he gets to work. It's not selfish to want to drive to work in your own car and not pay 300 percent taxes on a tank of gas. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go home. Stick your head up your own ass.

[whatsmynameagain]

Also, any product that required shipping or transport would become more expensive. Nothing important, just stuff like food.

i work in shipping. more stuff should move rail, cheaper and better for the enviroment. we have to change a lot of things if we are gonna keep america going. i love how people give the dont take anymore from me mindset. our country functioning properly allows you to have everything you have. its all reciprical but most of you are too stupid or too stubborn to make any sacrifices.

[Donger]

i work in shipping. more stuff should move rail, cheaper and better for the enviroment. we have to change a lot of things if we are gonna keep america going. i love how people give the dont take anymore from me mindset. our country functioning properly allows you to have everything you have. its all reciprical but most of you are too stupid or too stubborn to make any sacrifices.

What sacrifices have you made for the collective good?

[blaise]

I wouldn't assume the government would be spending any additional tax revenue on improving mass transit. 90% of it would just get sucked up in gov't waste and paying incompetent government employees.
If they keep the price of gas around $4.50, two years later they'll need to raise the minimum wage by $2 an hour.

[banyon]

Public transportation is great for big cities, but what about the other 95 percent of the country?

Couldn't you also say the other 20% of the population?

[blaise]

Yes, those stubborn idiots barely getting by should be taking their kids out of bed at 4:45 so they can get them to daycare on a bus at and then catching a different bus to work by 7:30. Then turn around and do that on the way home.
Selfish idiots.

[banyon]

Also, any product that required shipping or transport would become more expensive. Nothing important, just stuff like food.

More expensive in the short term, cheaper in the long run.

[banyon]

Yes, those stubborn idiots barely getting by should be taking their kids out of bed at 4:45 so they can get them to daycare on a bus at and then catching a different bus to work by 7:30. Then turn around and do that on the way home.
Selfish idiots.

Yeah, I remember where people wanted buses to be the sole means of transportation in this thread. You won't even be allowed to walk from the street back to your front door either. There will be a tiny short bus to take you to your doorstep.

[mikey23545]

You've now glimpsed the face of the coming tyranny, and from the posts of it's disciples on this thread you have also seen that no tolerance or sympathy may be expected, no resistance will be allowed.

[Garcia Bronco]

Yes, those stubborn idiots barely getting by should be taking their kids out of bed at 4:45 so they can get them to daycare on a bus at and then catching a different bus to work by 7:30. Then turn around and do that on the way home.
Selfish idiots.

Exactly. People talk about this stuff from their own perspective. The amusingly talk about the big picture, yet they use their own tiny one to describe a solution for all.

[blaise]

Yeah, I remember where people wanted buses to be the sole means of transportation in this thread. You won't even be allowed to walk from the street back to your front door either. There will be a tiny short bus to take you to your doorstep.


That was in response to this line, "its all reciprical but most of you are too stupid or too stubborn to make any sacrifices." (not by you) which I consider pompous. It's easy to say people don't give a crap, but that doesn't mean it's because they're stupid or stubborn.

[banyon]

You've now glimpsed the face of the coming tyranny, and from the posts of it's disciples on this thread you have also seen that no tolerance or sympathy may be expected, no resistance will be allowed.

You've now glimpsed the face of the coming hyperbole, and from the posts of "it's" (sic.) disciples on this thread, you also have seen that no change no matter how productive or minimally invasive will not be contorted into a controversy and faux outrage of the most ludicrous proportions.

[banyon]

That was in response to this line, "its all reciprical but most of you are too stupid or too stubborn to make any sacrifices." (not by you) which I consider pompous. It's easy to say people don't give a crap, but that doesn't mean it's because they're stupid or stubborn.

I agree with that sentiment, but not with the overall conclusion in your post.

[Brock]

Couldn't you also say the other 20% of the population?

Fuck 'em, I guess.

[banyon]

**** 'em, I guess.

So, if 80% of the population becomes significantly more fuel efficient, then that doesn't help the other 20%?

[mikey23545]

You've now glimpsed the face of the coming hyperbole, and from the posts of "it's" (sic.) disciples on this thread, you also have seen that no change no matter how productive or minimally invasive will not be contorted into a controversy and faux outrage of the most ludicrous proportions.

Yes, Master!

[Garcia Bronco]

More expensive in the short term, cheaper in the long run.

No it wouldn't. It would just get more expensive.

[whatsmynameagain]

What sacrifices have you made for the collective good?

to name a few:

i recycle every piece of paper, plastic, cardboard, and can that i use.

i pick up trash on the side of the roads in the area i live in.

i got a more fuel effecient vehicle.

changed to the higher effeciency bulbs

i normally tip 20% but have been giving closer to 30% lately because people that live off tips need the money more than i do right now.

i cut back on credit card purchases.

i try to use as much 2nd hand stuff as i can.

i buy local as often as possible.

i know these all seem pretty minute and maybe stupid to some, but if everyone did their part we would be better off.

[Donger]

to name a few:

i recycle every piece of paper, plastic, cardboard, and can that i use.

i pick up trash on the side of the roads in the area i live in.

i got a more fuel effecient vehicle.

changed to the higher effeciency bulbs

i normally tip 20% but have been giving closer to 30% lately because people that live off tips need the money more than i do right now.

i cut back on credit card purchases.

i try to use as much 2nd hand stuff as i can.

i buy local as often as possible.

i know these all seem pretty minute and maybe stupid to some, but if everyone did their part we would be better off.

Those aren't stupid at all.

[MagicHef]

More expensive in the short term, cheaper in the long run.

How?

[Garcia Bronco]

Those aren't stupid at all.

And some are hardly sacrifices either.

[MagicHef]

to name a few:

i recycle every piece of paper, plastic, cardboard, and can that i use.

i pick up trash on the side of the roads in the area i live in.

i got a more fuel effecient vehicle.

changed to the higher effeciency bulbs

i normally tip 20% but have been giving closer to 30% lately because people that live off tips need the money more than i do right now.

i cut back on credit card purchases.

i try to use as much 2nd hand stuff as i can.

i buy local as often as possible.

i know these all seem pretty minute and maybe stupid to some, but if everyone did their part we would be better off.

I don't want to nitpick your list, but if you're benefiting from something, it's not a sacrifice. Some of those benefit you directly, especially monetarily.

[whatsmynameagain]

It's not your business where the man lives or how he gets to work. It's not selfish to want to drive to work in your own car and not pay 300 percent taxes on a tank of gas. Here's what I want you to do. I want you to go home. Stick your head up your own ass.

theres a reason we're in the mess we're in today, look no further than the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitudes. our current system does not work. we will need to take drastic measures now to prepare for a more stable future.

i probably wont have children but that doesnt mean im going to fuck up everything i can just because i can. do you have kids? are you willing to make sacrifices now for their future? i am.

[Jenson71]

I really think there's needs to be a greater push for fuel-efficient cars, living closer to work (abandoning tearing up farms for suburbs) and a push for public transportation. Does putting a huge tax on what would otherwise be rather inexpensive or normal gas prices solve it? Well, I'd rather see incentives go to fuel-efficient car producers in that regard. Otherwise, it seems obvious that we would need to tax gas to bring a push for public transportation.

One thing I'd like to see is a regional set up push for greater extent of Amtrak. I'd like to board a train in Waterloo, IA and get to KC in 3 hours. It can happen.

[Adept Havelock]

I don't want to nitpick your list,
Then why did you?

but if you're benefiting from something, it's not a sacrifice.
Untrue. Cutting out bacon and eggs for breakfast benefits my health, and it's damn well a sacrifice.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

sacrifice

• noun 1 the practice or an act of killing an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity. 2 an animal, person, or object offered in this way. 3 an act of giving up something one values for the sake of something that is of greater importance.

• verb offer or give up as a sacrifice.

— DERIVATIVES sacrificial adjective.

— ORIGIN Latin sacrificium, from sacer ‘holy’.

The sacrifice is in giving something up. Having a positive effect from it in no way invalidates that sacrifice. :shrug:


BTW- That's an excellent Avatar you've got. Vonnegut's desired epitaph, IIRC? Hi Ho.

[whatsmynameagain]

I don't want to nitpick your list, but if you're benefiting from something, it's not a sacrifice. Some of those benefit you directly, especially monetarily.

the very reason i didnt want to get into this.

i recycle every piece of paper, plastic, cardboard, and can that i use.<---- i get no monetary benefit from this, i had to buy two extra trash cans for this shit and we drive to the recycle center to make a drop off.

i pick up trash on the side of the roads in the area i live in.<---- benefit from a cleaner neighborhood

i got a more fuel effecient vehicle.<---- this saved me some money because i downgraded from a lexus

changed to the higher effeciency bulbs<---- these cost up front but save in the end

i normally tip 20% but have been giving closer to 30% lately because people that live off tips need the money more than i do right now.<---- im totally benefitting from this

i cut back on credit card purchases.<---- not a sacrifice as much as being more responsible which is equally as strong imo

i try to use as much 2nd hand stuff as i can.<---- i benefit from having used goods instead of buying new ones, helps keep junk out of landfills

i buy local as often as possible.<---- never cheap

[Garcia Bronco]

theres a reason we're in the mess we're in today, look no further than the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitudes. our current system does not work. we will need to take drastic measures now to prepare for a more stable future.

i probably wont have children but that doesnt mean im going to **** up everything i can just because i can. do you have kids? are you willing to make sacrifices now for their future? i am.

No. The reason we are in then mess financially is people and businesses spending money they don't have. That's it. You can't live your life on a credit card and expect to somehow be solvent. I don't know your personal situation, but the best sacrifice you or anyone can make is to not live in debt.

[Garcia Bronco]

Then why did you?

Untrue. Cutting out bacon and eggs for breakfast benefits my health, and it's damn well a sacrifice.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

sacrifice

• noun 1 the practice or an act of killing an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity. 2 an animal, person, or object offered in this way. 3 an act of giving up something one values for the sake of something that is of greater importance.

• verb offer or give up as a sacrifice.

— DERIVATIVES sacrificial adjective.

— ORIGIN Latin sacrificium, from sacer ‘holy’.

The sacrifice is in giving something up. Having a positive effect from it in no way invalidates that sacrifice. :shrug:


BTW- That's an excellent Avatar you've got. Vonnegut's desired epitaph, IIRC? Hi Ho.

Sacrifice is not really used in a personal benefit context here. Now you could argue that by cutting out bacon and eggs that you MIGHT have reduced you health care burden, but you've also screwed they people that make a living off of selling and producing bacon and eggs.

[Adept Havelock]

Sacrifice is not really used in a personal benefit context here. Now you could argue that by cutting out bacon and eggs that you MIGHT have reduced you health care burden, but you've also screwed they people that make a living off of selling and producing bacon and eggs.

I wouldn't dispute that. I just felt like pointing out the definition of the word does not preclude some form of gain, as MagicHef suggested.

[Guru]

I do everything I can to conserve but purposely raising gas prices to force people to conserve isn't the answer.

It doesn't matter how much we as individuals do as long as they keep making it harder and harder to support your own family. High gas prices affect every thing we do. Putting them back up to the ridiculous levels they were a few months ago will only serve to bankrupt people and small businesses.

[Guru]

No. The reason we are in then mess financially is people and businesses spending money they don't have. That's it. You can't live your life on a credit card and expect to somehow be solvent. I don't know your personal situation, but the best sacrifice you or anyone can make is to not live in debt.BINGO

[FishingRod]

I too am in the transportation business and intermodal is the best way to go, where available. It just takes longer. An exception is the 4th qtr where Wal-Mart and Target buy up the eastbound rail capacity for shipping imported cheap crap from overseas. It can cost more than over the road before Christmas.
I would use mass transit if it were practical. It would be great to read the paper and have a cup of coffee on the way to work. The simple truth of the matter is that our country from top to bottom runs on oil. It does this because it is the most cost effective way to do so. Sooner or later a better technology will replace fossil fuels but in the meantime they are what we have. Green seems to have become a new religion with a fair share of blind followers. The difference is you choose when and how much you give to the Church in hopes they do good with it. So now Gas can have the next SIN tax. Whoooooo hoooooo

[whatsmynameagain]

I too am in the transportation business and intermodal is the best way to go, where available. It just takes longer. An exception is the 4th qtr where Wal-Mart and Target buy up the eastbound rail capacity for shipping imported cheap crap from overseas. It can cost more than over the road before Christmas.
I would use mass transit if it were practical. It would be great to read the paper and have a cup of coffee on the way to work. The simple truth of the matter is that our country from top to bottom runs on oil. It does this because it is the most cost effective way to do so. Sooner or later a better technology will replace fossil fuels but in the meantime they are what we have. Green seems to have become a new religion with a fair share of blind followers. The difference is you choose when and how much you give to the Church in hopes they do good with it. So now Gas can have the next SIN tax. Whoooooo hoooooo

Sounds like we may have the same job

[Garcia Bronco]

Least we forget that mass transit systems sieze homes, cost billions, and never produce a profit. Carry on

[banyon]

Yes, Master!

par for the course from you.

We'll see you next time with the next installment of your weekly passing hateful jab posting.

[whatsmynameagain]

Originally Posted by whatsmynameagain
theres a reason we're in the mess we're in today, look no further than the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitudes. our current system does not work. we will need to take drastic measures now to prepare for a more stable future.



No. The reason we are in then mess financially is people and businesses spending money they don't have. That's it. You can't live your life on a credit card and expect to somehow be solvent. I don't know your personal situation, but the best sacrifice you or anyone can make is to not live in debt.

You say no, but did you read my post? I think we agree. Its the attitude that we can do whatever we want, that includes spending, and never worry about the end result. I call that the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitude. Its more than just debt, its something bigger, its called RESPONSIBILITY. The majority of our country doesnt have it.

[blaise]

Originally Posted by whatsmynameagain
theres a reason we're in the mess we're in today, look no further than the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitudes. our current system does not work. we will need to take drastic measures now to prepare for a more stable future.





You say no, but did you read my post? I think we agree. Its the attitude that we can do whatever we want, that includes spending, and never worry about the end result. I call that the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitude. Its more than just debt, its something bigger, its called RESPONSIBILITY. The majority of our country doesnt have it.


It's all relative isn't it? I bet there's people even more green than you that would tell you you're just as guilty.

[whatsmynameagain]

Least we forget that mass transit systems sieze homes, cost billions, and never produce a profit. Carry on

In the past, you are right. How will we change that? We will never know, if we never try. Thats the crossroads we are at right now as Americans. To fix our problems we must make sacrifices to try make them better.

[banyon]

No it wouldn't. It would just get more expensive.

Having an alternative fuel source and more efficient infrastructure makes things more expensive you think?

So, the less infrastructure and more beholden we are to foreign oil cartels the better?

[Garcia Bronco]

Originally Posted by whatsmynameagain
theres a reason we're in the mess we're in today, look no further than the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitudes. our current system does not work. we will need to take drastic measures now to prepare for a more stable future.





You say no, but did you read my post? I think we agree. Its the attitude that we can do whatever we want, that includes spending, and never worry about the end result. I call that the "i can do whatever i want" shitsucking attitude. Its more than just debt, its something bigger, its called RESPONSIBILITY. The majority of our country doesnt have it.

The underlying attitude stems from the same place, but I don't think people are generally aware of it. But the way we get out of it is by setting the example, not through ramed down my throat legislation from the "There outta be a law" crowd that ultimately doesn't help nor fix the problem.

[whatsmynameagain]

It's all relative isn't it? I bet there's people even more green than you that would tell you you're just as guilty.

Oh, I want to do more, and I will. Its one thing to acknowledge it, its quite another to turn the other cheek. I know Im guilty of a lot of things and am constantly striving to be better. It's not easy, thats why its sacrifice. Breaking bad habits is always hard. February will be my 1 year no cigg anniversery. If I can quit smoking ciggs I can do anything hahaha!

[Garcia Bronco]

In the past, you are right. How will we change that? We will never know, if we never try. Thats the crossroads we are at right now as Americans. To fix our problems we must make sacrifices to try make them better.

Friend, it's happening here in Denver right now. RTD wants to sieze thousands of homes to increase a lightrail system west bound. They are billions over budget and it loses money. In fact the governemnt has had to reduce services this summer during all time high fuel prices when demand was at it's greatest in the number of trains and buses. RTD in Denver is trying to us eminent domain to sieze homes and hand it over to private developers not even related to the train. I tell you what, head to these homes with families, tell them you are going to sieze their homes, tell them you are going to give them less than their home is worth, you are going to turn it into a McDonalds, and I'll show you a sacrifice.

If they priced these lightrail tickets and bus fares to just break even the cost benefit wouldn't be worth it to the consumer.

[whatsmynameagain]

Having an alternative fuel source and more efficient infrastructure makes things more expensive you think?

So, the less infrastructure and more beholden we are to foreign oil cartels the better?


Sacrifice today for tomorrow's benefit. Sign me up!

[MagicHef]

Then why did you?

Untrue. Cutting out bacon and eggs for breakfast benefits my health, and it's damn well a sacrifice.

From the Oxford English Dictionary:

sacrifice

• noun 1 the practice or an act of killing an animal or person or surrendering a possession as an offering to a deity. 2 an animal, person, or object offered in this way. 3 an act of giving up something one values for the sake of something that is of greater importance.

• verb offer or give up as a sacrifice.

— DERIVATIVES sacrificial adjective.

— ORIGIN Latin sacrificium, from sacer ‘holy’.

The sacrifice is in giving something up. Having a positive effect from it in no way invalidates that sacrifice. :shrug:


BTW- That's an excellent Avatar you've got. Vonnegut's desired epitaph, IIRC? Hi Ho.

Huh. I must admit, I didn't look up the definition of sacrifice before I made that comment, but that was not what I was expecting.

Going by that definition, if I drive to McDonald's to buy a burger, I am sacrificing my money, my time, and my gasoline for that burger. I value my money, time, and gasoline, and the burger must be of greater importance to me, otherwise why would I get it? What a valiant soul I am, making such brave sacrifices!

I suppose my comment makes less sense based on the definition of the word sacrifice and more sense (to me at least) based on where that line of discussion had come from.

Yes, it is Vonnegut.

[whatsmynameagain]

Friend, it's happening here in Denver right now. RTD wants to sieze thousands of homes to increase a lightrail system west bound. They are billions over budget and it loses money. In fact the governemnt has had to reduce services this summer during all time high fuel prices when demand was at it's greatest in the number of trains and buses. RTD in Denver is trying to us eminent domain to sieze homes and hand it over to private developers not even related to the train. I tell you what, head to these homes with families, tell them you are going to sieze their homes, tell them you are going to give them less than their home is worth, you are going to turn it into a McDonalds, and I'll show you a sacrifice.

If they priced these lightrail tickets and bus fares to just break even the cost benefit wouldn't be worth it to the consumer.


Whats a budget, if you're billions over it? Sounds like a huge mess. That doesnt mean it cant be done. It just means the people who were put in charge, cant get it done.

[Garcia Bronco]

Having an alternative fuel source and more efficient infrastructure makes things more expensive you think?

So, the less infrastructure and more beholden we are to foreign oil cartels the better?

A 300 percent tax on fuel would not reduce the cost on anything. A 300 percent fuel tax isn't going to create an alternative fuel source. It's not going to build more efficent infrastructure. Further more, we don't have to buy oil from Canada. We have plenty right here in our own country It would only raise the price on everything. Now you have a low income problem. Now those people can't get to work.

Now I support alternative sources of energy, but a 300 percent tax on fuel doesn't get us there.

Least we forget that once you feed the beast, aka government, it needs more. Why? Because they can't deliver on the conditions as they are with pie in the sky promises. So the tax just keeps going up.

[whatsmynameagain]

Huh. I must admit, I didn't look up the definition of sacrifice before I made that comment, but that was not what I was expecting.

Going by that definition, if I drive to McDonald's to buy a burger, I am sacrificing my money, my time, and my gasoline for that burger. I value my money, time, and gasoline, and the burger must be of greater importance to me, otherwise why would I get it? What a valiant soul I am, making such brave sacrifices!

I suppose my comment makes less sense based on the definition of the word sacrifice and more sense (to me at least) based on where that line of discussion had come from.

Yes, it is Vonnegut.


Anytime you eat mcdonalds you sacrifice years of your life

[banyon]

A 300 percent tax on fuel would not reduce the cost on anything. A 300 percent fuel tax isn't going to create an alternative fuel source. It's not going to build more efficent infrastructure. Further more, we don't have to buy oil from Canada. We have plenty right here in our own country It would only raise the price on everything. Now you have a low income problem. Now those people can't get to work.

Now I support alternative sources of energy, but a 300 percent tax on fuel doesn't get us there.

Least we forget that once you feed the beast, aka government, it needs more. Why? Because they can't deliver on the conditions as they are with pie in the sky promises. So the tax just keeps going up.

This is our main point of contention then. You just don't believe that people react to high gas prices, which i think the last several months have shown is just flatly false. I'm not necessarily for taxing us to get to that point either (probably a carrot would work better), but I do think it's time to make some major changes.

[Garcia Bronco]

Whats a budget, if you're billions over it? Sounds like a huge mess. That doesnt mean it cant be done. It just means the people who were put in charge, cant get it done.

The mass transit systems in Norfolk, Virginia - over budget
The mass transit systems in Portland, Oregon - over budget
The MTA in New York - Losing money and over budget

This is just a small sampling from a simple search.

[triple]

Are you surprised by this?

expensive gasoline = less financial independence for you = more government dependence

[triple]

by the way, this sounds like a fabulous plan in a down economy

[Garcia Bronco]

This is our main point of contention then. You just don't believe that people react to high gas prices, which i think the last several months have shown is just flatly false. I'm not necessarily for taxing us to get to that point either (probably a carrot would work better), but I do think it's time to make some major changes.

From a federal level, hopefully President Obama keeps his promise of that carrot by reducing taxes and creating other incentives on different fuel sources.

[AndChiefs]

Anytime you eat mcdonalds you sacrifice years of your life

I'm surprised there's still people alive if this were true. ;)

[MagicHef]

Anytime you eat mcdonalds you sacrifice years of your life

Exactly. Yet another sacrifice I'm willing to make for the noble purpose of getting a burger.

[Hydrae]

You know, I wish more social engineering was driven from the private sector instead of insisting on government intervention to get things done.

For a fairly easy example, look at MADD. Through their raising awareness of the issue of driving drunk they not only got new laws passed but have reduced the number of people driving in an inebrated state. This was not something started by some senator or even a county councilman. It was a private group that saw an issue they cared about deeply and they worked to change public perception. When they started people laughed at them while toasting them from the drivers seat. Now people get yelled at here on the Planet for thinking about driving while drunk. This is social change without government intrusion.

How about T Boone Pickins and his push for natural gas? I know a lot of people are skeptical that he is just pushing that due to the amount of the stuff he owns that is still in the ground but he is putting his money where his mouth is right now. Is this the answer to our power needs even on a short term basis? I don't know but I apprciate that it is an individual driving this and I have the option on whether to join him or not instead of some governmental idiot dictating some of my income go to support whichever cause.

To me this is how a democracy should work. The most well intentioned laws always have unintended consequences. Or to put it another way, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.

[SNR]

You know, I wish more social engineering was driven from the private sector instead of insisting on government intervention to get things done.

For a fairly easy example, look at MADD. Through their raising awareness of the issue of driving drunk they not only got new laws passed but have reduced the number of people driving in an inebrated state. This was not something started by some senator or even a county councilman. It was a private group that saw an issue they cared about deeply and they worked to change public perception. When they started people laughed at them while toasting them from the drivers seat. Now people get yelled at here on the Planet for thinking about driving while drunk. This is social change without government intrusion.

How about T Boone Pickins and his push for natural gas? I know a lot of people are skeptical that he is just pushing that due to the amount of the stuff he owns that is still in the ground but he is putting his money where his mouth is right now. Is this the answer to our power needs even on a short term basis? I don't know but I apprciate that it is an individual driving this and I have the option on whether to join him or not instead of some governmental idiot dictating some of my income go to support whichever cause.

To me this is how a democracy should work. The most well intentioned laws always have unintended consequences. Or to put it another way, the road to hell is paved with good intentions.Yeah, but it's also probably easier to stick your fingers in your ears and sing loudly.

HE'S A PINBALL WIZARD!!

[H5N1]

Whats a budget, if you're billions over it? Sounds like a huge mess. That doesnt mean it cant be done. It just means the people who were put in charge, cant get it done.

jesus tapdancing christ--you just described government! 'for the people by the people' my ass. it's not the democrats, it's not the republicans. it's BOTH of them. that's my main issue with this 'solution'--it puts the power in the hands of the people who I wouldn't trust to balance my paycheck, let alone a budget (wait--they CAN'T balance a budget)--it's a fucking travesty. bigger government is NEVER the solution--they have no clue as to the meaning of efficient. it's like feeding more into the system than you ultimately get out--it's a losing proposition, but some people are obsessed with making the monster bigger. and the problem is the government never gets smaller, it just gets more bloated and more bloated.

fuck.

[ROYC75]

What?

That's walking or by a horse .......

[banyon]

Exactly. Yet another sacrifice I'm willing to make for the noble purpose of getting a burger.

Burgers are important. People punch windows over them.

[patteeu]

i took a shower at 5:50am this morning before coming into work. nice insult!

IF WE DONT CHANGE HOW WE DO THINGS, WE WILL GO UNDER. PULL YOUR HEAD OUT OF YOUR ASS, AND PULL THE DICK OUT OF YOUR MOUTH. MAYBE ONE DAY YOULL GET TIRED OF ****ING YOURSELF.

You may have taken a shower, but your posts still stink.

[MagicHef]

Burgers are important. People punch windows over them.

As they should.