PDA

View Full Version : Chiefs So, did the Vikes get what they wanted with Allen?


Tuckdaddy
01-04-2009, 06:18 PM
The way I see it we got the better end. They got one great player and we got what looks like two starters. Jared and his 15 sacks didn't change anything. They are done already. Like alot of us know, you need a team not a superstar. Team defense and team offense are what's important.

I will say a solid QB is a must. We need a franchise QB bad or nothing else we do will matter at all.

Short Leash Hootie
01-04-2009, 06:20 PM
he didn't have any sort of an impact today LMAO

Yeah right dude...we got a good deal but Jared is an absolute STUD.

StcChief
01-04-2009, 06:20 PM
at this point still too early to tell. Balance seems to be leaning toward KC

triple
01-04-2009, 06:22 PM
he's not worth the money they have invested in him, but no one probably is.

Count Zarth
01-04-2009, 06:22 PM
He had 16.5 sacks this year.

Imagine what he does if that offense gets a QB and the defense starts playing with a lead.

petegz28
01-04-2009, 06:23 PM
He had more sacks by himself than our entire team.........what more can be said?

TRR
01-04-2009, 06:24 PM
I think both teams got exactly what they expected out of the deal. The Chiefs were 4-12 with Jared Allen, and knew Allen wasn't a player that you could build a franchise around. Furthermore, KC needed help in several areas, and decided that the picks and the allocated money would be more of an asset than one player.

The Vikes thought they were one or two players away from a Super Bowl caliber team. Problem is, that position probably wasn't DE...It was a QB. Hindsight is always 20/20. Either way, Allen will be a wrecking ball for them until the day he hangs it up (or takes another drink, or sours on their front office.) And the Chiefs got two very good players (one in which will anchor the O Line for years to come IMHO.) and cap space.

petegz28
01-04-2009, 06:26 PM
I think both teams got exactly what they expected out of the deal. The Chiefs were 4-12 with Jared Allen, and knew Allen wasn't a player that you could build a franchise around. Furthermore, KC needed help in several areas, and decided that the picks and the allocated money would be more of an asset than one player.

The Vikes thought they were one or two players away from a Super Bowl caliber team. Problem is, that position probably wasn't DE...It was a QB. Hindsight is always 20/20. Either way, Allen will be a wrecking ball for them until the day he hangs it up (or takes another drink, or sours on their front office.) And the Chiefs got two very good players (one in which will anchor the O Line for years to come IMHO.) and cap space.

yeah a bad-ass pass rusher at age 26 is at the end of his career and cannot anchor a defense. :spock: I'm not saying we got the shit-end of the stick. But I think you are wrong on your take of Allen.

triple
01-04-2009, 06:31 PM
we went from 4-12 to 2-14.

in exchange we got three draft picks that look to translate at least into a franchise left tackle. plus, i guess you could say we saved the $75 million of salary that the Vikings have wrapped up in him

Davechief
01-04-2009, 06:33 PM
I think both sides came out Ok on the deal. Jared is in a much better immediate situation, but still hasn't won a playoff game.

TRR
01-04-2009, 06:34 PM
yeah a bad-ass pass rusher at age 26 is at the end of his career and cannot anchor a defense. :spock: I'm not saying we got the shit-end of the stick. But I think you are wrong on your take of Allen.

If you read my last post, I said BUILD A FRANCHISE AROUND...Not anchor a defense. Your talking about a very good player. But one that (1) Was already bickering with the front office (2) Was demanding to be paid like the King of Spain when the team had SO many needs, and (3) Was one drink away from being suspended indefinitely.

You can't build or turn around a franchise with a player like Jared Allen. Is he a piece of the puzzle? Absolutely. But he isn't what a young team like the Chiefs needed...they needed more players. And I never said he was at the end of his career?????

KChiefs1
01-04-2009, 06:38 PM
I'll take the Chiefs side of the trade.

plbrdude
01-04-2009, 06:39 PM
If you read my last post, I said BUILD A FRANCHISE AROUND...Not anchor a defense. Your talking about a very good player. But one that (1) Was already bickering with the front office (2) Was demanding to be paid like the King of Spain when the team had SO many needs, and (3) Was one drink away from being suspended indefinitely.

You can't build or turn around a franchise with a player like Jared Allen. Is he a piece of the puzzle? Absolutely. But he isn't what a young team like the Chiefs needed...they needed more players. And I never said he was at the end of his career?????

some people just see what they want to read.

macdawg
01-04-2009, 07:00 PM
Vikings win easily.

Chiefs won 2 games and set an NFL record for worst pass rush in football history. Of course Jared was bickering he was dealing with Carl and playing for one of the worst teams with no end in sight.

Vikes went from 8-8 to 10-6 and to a playoff appearance.

Only time will tell for sure and I hope the Chiefs hit on those picks, Albert so far is the only pick I like.

petegz28
01-04-2009, 07:03 PM
If you read my last post, I said BUILD A FRANCHISE AROUND...Not anchor a defense. Your talking about a very good player. But one that (1) Was already bickering with the front office (2) Was demanding to be paid like the King of Spain when the team had SO many needs, and (3) Was one drink away from being suspended indefinitely.

You can't build or turn around a franchise with a player like Jared Allen. Is he a piece of the puzzle? Absolutely. But he isn't what a young team like the Chiefs needed...they needed more players. And I never said he was at the end of his career?????

How dare a guy who led the league in sacks and that was making dick
for $'s ask for more money.

Carl fucked it up, plain and simple.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:10 PM
So, did the Vikes get what they wanted with Allen?

Well, seeing as how they thought that they were Jared Allen away from a Lombardi Trophy, then proceeded to go one-and-done in the playoffs, I'd say the answer is no.

And from our side of things, I'll take a franchise LT over every other position on the field, save the QB. If Morgan and/or Charles turn out to be even role players, it's icing on the cake.

Frazod
01-04-2009, 07:12 PM
I'll withhold judgment until I see what Dorsey can do when he's not coached by retards.

KcMizzou
01-04-2009, 07:15 PM
I'll withhold judgment until I see what Dorsey can do when he's not coached by retards.Exactly.

Edit: I guess the Dorsey pick wasn't part of the Allen trade though. (But I agree as far as evaluating Dorsey in general goes.)

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:15 PM
I'll withhold judgment until I see what Dorsey can do when he's not coached by retards.

What does Dorsey have to do with it, Tim?

Dorsey was our pick.

Albert was picked with the Vikes pick.

Valiant
01-04-2009, 07:17 PM
How dare a guy who led the league in sacks and that was making dick
for $'s ask for more money.

Carl ****ed it up, plain and simple.

If it were just about money you would be correct..

But I would never truth an alcoholic with that much money either..

Chiefs did fine in the deal..

Frazod
01-04-2009, 07:18 PM
What does Dorsey have to do with it, Tim?

Dorsey was our pick.

Albert was picked with the Vikes pick.

Getting that extra pick enabled us to take Dorsey instead of trading down and taking Clady or Albert.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:19 PM
Getting that extra pick enabled us to take Dorsey instead of trading down and taking Clady or Albert.

Assumption.

Truth is, we'll never know what MIGHT have happened.

smittysbar
01-04-2009, 07:19 PM
I'll withhold judgment until I see what Dorsey can do when he's not coached by retards.

we didn't get Dorsey with their pick

macdawg
01-04-2009, 07:20 PM
What does Dorsey have to do with it, Tim?

Dorsey was our pick.

Albert was picked with the Vikes pick.

Chiefs would have drafted differently had they kept Allen.

IMO they would have traded down and picked up Albert or Clady and would have been a completely different draft.

Frazod
01-04-2009, 07:21 PM
Assumption.

Truth is, we'll never know what MIGHT have happened.

True, but that was our most glaring need.

And now it is not.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 07:25 PM
If I was the Vikings I'd be happy. Jared had two sacks and forced a fumble and was active on defense. (That near-interception shows exactly why he's such a strong player - peeling off the pass rush and coming very close to a caromed interception 10 yards downfield.)

I'm hopeful that the Chiefs will beat the odds and come out okay on this trade. Right now, it looks like our left tackle will be solid, which is a huge relief. We also got a change-of-pace running back and a safety who made no impact at all.

All in all, I'd still rather have Allen, but it appears that we got lucky enough to get at least one good starter in return.

dorseybowe
01-04-2009, 07:30 PM
I might be mistaken, but I thought Charles was selected with our original third round pick, with Cottam and that safety from the Vikes.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:33 PM
I might be mistaken, but I thought Charles was selected with our original third round pick, with Cottam and that safety from the Vikes.

On second thought, I believe you are correct.

Which IMO, makes it an even better deal for us.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 07:36 PM
If I was the Vikings I'd be happy. Jared had two sacks and forced a fumble and was active on defense. (That near-interception shows exactly why he's such a strong player - peeling off the pass rush and coming very close to a caromed interception 10 yards downfield.)

Also, even though he didn't stop him, he was a 60 yards downfield right behind Westbrook on his long catch. He also read a screen very well.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 07:39 PM
I might be mistaken, but I thought Charles was selected with our original third round pick, with Cottam and that safety from the Vikes.

I don't think so.

http://www.nfl.com/draft/tracker#dt-tab-set-1:dt-by-team/team-kc

petegz28
01-04-2009, 07:40 PM
If it were just about money you would be correct..

But I would never truth an alcoholic with that much money either..

Chiefs did fine in the deal..


Yea, better to give it to a woman beater. :p

dorseybowe
01-04-2009, 07:42 PM
Good call. I remember we picked him early, and I assumed (don't ever do this!) that we used our original third round pick, but we traded it away or something...right? Didn't we move up to get Albert and switched thirds with somebody?

whoaskew
01-04-2009, 07:44 PM
we went from 4-12 to 2-14.





Vikes went from 8-8 to 10-6 and to a playoff appearance.



Obviously, a Jared Allen is good for 2 extra wins

Now, if we could only find SEVEN Jared Allen's...

BigRock
01-04-2009, 07:44 PM
2007: 15.5 sacks in 14 games, or 1.107 sacks per game.
2008: 16.5 sacks in 17 games, or .970 sacks per game.

And that 2008 stat figures in his playoff appearance today, which helps his numbers. Just sticking to the regular season, it would be 14.5 sacks in 16 games, or .875 sacks per game.

There's no way the Vikings expected his production to drop despite having two more regular season games AND the Pro Bowl Williams' boys tying up blockers. And the Vikes' team sacks only increased by 6 or 7 from last year, so it's not like Allen's presence was creating all these sack opportunities for other people.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:46 PM
2007: 15.5 sacks in 14 games, or 1.107 sacks per game.
2008: 16.5 sacks in 17 games, or .970 sacks per game.

And that 2008 stat figures in his playoff appearance today, which helps his numbers. Just sticking to the regular season, it would be 14.5 sacks in 16 games, or .875 sacks per game.

There's no way the Vikings expected his production to drop despite having two more regular season games AND the Pro Bowl Williams' boys tying up blockers. And the Vikes' team sacks only increased by 6 or 7 from last year, so it's not like Allen's presence was creating all these sack opportunities for other people.

Reptastic.

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 07:48 PM
2007: 15.5 sacks in 14 games, or 1.107 sacks per game.
2008: 16.5 sacks in 17 games, or .970 sacks per game.

And that 2008 stat figures in his playoff appearance today, which helps his numbers. Just sticking to the regular season, it would be 14.5 sacks in 16 games, or .875 sacks per game.

There's no way the Vikings expected his production to drop despite having two more regular season games AND the Pro Bowl Williams' boys tying up blockers. And the Vikes' team sacks only increased by 6 or 7 from last year, so it's not like Allen's presence was creating all these sack opportunities for other people.

Terrible logic. No expects a DE to get sacks at the same rate as Allen did last year every year. If Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year annually he is meeting expectations.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 07:49 PM
Allen just got #10 on Deion's Primetime

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 07:50 PM
Terrible logic. No expects a DE to get sacks at the same rate as Allen did last year every year. If Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year annually he is meeting expectations.

I read that as anally.ROFL

ChiefsCountry
01-04-2009, 07:51 PM
Albert is going to keep Stafford or Sanchez off his ass for the next 15 years that is worth more than Jared Allen.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 07:51 PM
Also, even though he didn't stop him, he was a 60 yards downfield right behind Westbrook on his long catch. He also read a screen very well.

If I was a GM, this is the one attribute that I would watch for in every draftee. You watch Greg Wesley and William Bartee and other underachievers, and they start jogging once they think someone else is going to make the play. The Jared Allens of the world keep going full speed so they can get in on the tackle, and lo and behold, they end up coming up with more turnovers and tackles. High-motor guys are the key to a good defense, in my opinion.

Also, if you watch the great Priest-era offensive line, all of those guys kept running the whole play looking for others to block. Roaf, Waters, Wiegman, Shields, and Tait were all active, as compared to some of our guys now who you'll see walking toward the play when the ball is still alive. It drives me nuts.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 07:51 PM
Terrible logic. No expects a DE to get sacks at the same rate as Allen did last year every year. If Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year annually he is meeting expectations.

What?

Not for $70M, dude.

If you're being paid as the best defensive player, you damn well better play like it.

10 sacks a year is a joke for someone making that kind of scratch.

Jesus, Darren Howard had 10 sacks this year.

BigRock
01-04-2009, 07:53 PM
Terrible logic. No expects a DE to get sacks at the same rate as Allen did last year every year. If Allen gets 10-12 sacks a year annually he is meeting expectations.

If you're happy with 10 sacks a year from a guy you're paying $70+ million to, I don't know what to say other than I wish you were my boss.

whoaskew
01-04-2009, 07:55 PM
And the Vikes' team sacks only increased by 6 or 7 from last year, so it's not like Allen's presence was creating all these sack opportunities for other people.


I wish "SOMETHING" or "SOMEONE" would have increased our sack opportunities by 6 or 7 from last year. Hell, I would have been happy to have MATCHED our sack total from the previous year, instead of regressing the way we did.


P.S. I am happy with the trade, I am just looking at things objectively.

macdawg
01-04-2009, 07:55 PM
Albert is going to keep Stafford or Sanchez off his ass for the next 15 years that is worth more than Jared Allen.

lol, 15 years huh?

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 07:58 PM
If you're happy with 10 sacks a year from a guy you're paying $70+ million to, I don't know what to say other than I wish you were my boss.

10 is a bit low, but your expectations are insane. You are claiming that Allen was a disappointment because he didn't have over a sack a game. Allen gave them 14.5 sacks and played very well in the playoffs; he met expectations. Hes still 26, if he can keep up similar production for 4 or 5 more years the Vikings will be happy. Expecting a player to get 16 sacks every year is just unreasonable, the NFL doesn't work that way.

You are harping too much on the money, he was paid so much because NFL salaries are rising and he was the first premier DE to get onto the new market. You seem to expect Allen to play like a future HOFer or else he isn't worth the money.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 07:59 PM
ok so i looked it up so there is no confussion

from the trade with vikes in the draft we got

Branden Albert
Jamal Charles
Dajuan Morgan
Kevin Robinson

that is the four players to judge this trade by

to answer the charles was our pick thats not true cause we traded our third round pick to the lions along with the vikes 17 to lions in order to draft albert at 15 because whoever was 16 was gonna draft him.

I hope that clears things up

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:03 PM
If I was a GM, this is the one attribute that I would watch for in every draftee. You watch Greg Wesley and William Bartee and other underachievers, and they start jogging once they think someone else is going to make the play. The Jared Allens of the world keep going full speed so they can get in on the tackle, and lo and behold, they end up coming up with more turnovers and tackles. High-motor guys are the key to a good defense, in my opinion.

Also, if you watch the great Priest-era offensive line, all of those guys kept running the whole play looking for others to block. Roaf, Waters, Wiegman, Shields, and Tait were all active, as compared to some of our guys now who you'll see walking toward the play when the ball is still alive. It drives me nuts.

You know, rewatching the play, I see Allen jogging a little assuming someone else will make the play. But he still stayed with the play instead of stopping at the line of scrimmage. If he had kept going full speed he probably would have made the play.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:04 PM
I don't care about Clark's money. They were a gazillion dollars under the cap. Give me a guy who produces 15 sacks or whatever, and a couple of sacks in a playoff game, and I'll be happy with him.

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 08:06 PM
Teams fuck up by giving bad contracts to mediocre players, not by giving money to actual star players who play a essential positions. Allen is worth the money, the only way it is a good trade is his problems with KC were beyond repair or Albert turns out to be a franchise LT.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:07 PM
You know, rewatching the play, I see Allen jogging a little assuming someone else will make the play. But he still stayed with the play instead of stopping at the line of scrimmage. If he had kept going full speed he probably would have made the play.


Don't destroy my image of him. My hands are over my ears, and I'm singing the Star-Spangled Banner, which would be more effective if you were speaking instead of writing, now that I think about it.

Regardless, he was three yards from a running back on a 71-yard touchdown. For a lineman, that's impressive.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:08 PM
Don't destroy my image of him. My hands are over my ears, and I'm singing the Star-Spangled Banner, which would be more effective if you were speaking instead of writing, now that I think about it.

Regardless, he was three yards from a running back on a 71-yard touchdown. For a lineman, that's impressive.

I debated posting that because I knew it would make your whole post a waste.....

So sorry.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:12 PM
Teams **** up by giving bad contracts to mediocre players, not by giving money to actual star players who play a essential positions. Allen is worth the money, the only way it is a good trade is his problems with KC were beyond repair or Albert turns out to be a franchise LT.


That's a fantastic point. The problem isn't paying big money to guys like Allen, it's paying moderate money to the Nap Harrises and John Welbourns and Lew Bushes and Kendrell Bells. If you can minimize those, you can pay the Allens whatever they want.

wazu
01-04-2009, 08:14 PM
Holy lord. Reading the utter denial in this thread is depressing, because I have to think the Chiefs front office is saying the same B.S.

Had we not made this abortion of a trade, we could have taken Clady in round one, and had Allen instead of Dorsey. Of course this was obvious to many of us when it happened, while others thought it was a great idea, so I don't know why I'm surprised.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:16 PM
Was Allen's record cleared before or after the trade happened?

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 08:18 PM
That's a fantastic point. The problem isn't paying big money to guys like Allen, it's paying moderate money to the Nap Harrises and John Welbourns and Lew Bushes and Kendrell Bells. If you can minimize those, you can pay the Allens whatever they want.

It's also why building through the draft is so important. The players actually worth spending a lot of money on rarely see the open market. The remaining group of second and third tier players are inevitably overpaid by desperate teams who have money to spend.

Saul Good
01-04-2009, 08:19 PM
That's a fantastic point. The problem isn't paying big money to guys like Allen, it's paying moderate money to the Nap Harrises and John Welbourns and Lew Bushes and Kendrell Bells. If you can minimize those, you can pay the Allens whatever they want.

Let's say that Allen would have been worth 2 additional wins this season. What is a better position for our future:

Picking 6th with a franchise DE and no Left Tackle
or
Picking 2nd with a franchise LT for the next 10-15 years and $30 million in cap room

I'll take the second scenario any day, and it doesn't even figure in the production of Jamaal Charles. Now we have more options. I would like to see us send LJ packing and start Charles at RB, take a stab at drafting a potential franchise QB with the 3rd pick, and use the cap space to bring in Julius Peppers. All of a sudden, you turned Jared Allen (and the 6th pick in the 2009 draft) into a franchise QB, starting RB, and an all-pro DE.

wazu
01-04-2009, 08:20 PM
It's also why building through the draft is so important. The players actually worth spending a lot of money on rarely see the open market. The remaining group of second and third tier players are inevitably overpaid by desperate teams who have money to spend.

Of course, we did build Jared Allen through the draft, so by all means, dump him for "picks" at the first opportunity.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:21 PM
Was Allen's record cleared before or after the trade happened?

IIRC, after.

Apparently the people who are defending Allen have never had an alcoholic relative/loved one/friend, or they would realize why the Chiefs couldn't give a $70M contract to a guy that had been clean for less than a year.

You all can bitch and moan all you want, but in the end, we got 3 future starters and a special teamer for ONE player that had some serious issues and didn't want to be here.

Get the fuck over it, or go buy a fucking Vikings jersey.

Saul Good
01-04-2009, 08:22 PM
Of course, we did build Jared Allen through the draft, so by all means, dump him for "picks" at the first opportunity.

You're pretending that he didn't refuse to play for us. It's not like the front office got together over cocktails and decided to randomly trade him for picks.

wazu
01-04-2009, 08:24 PM
You all can bitch and moan all you want, but in the end, we got 3 future starters and a special teamer for ONE player...

Please name all three future starters and the special teamer.

Rigodan
01-04-2009, 08:25 PM
2007 Chiefs Defense

#1 3rd down defense
#1 in negative plays - 121 (77 rushing, 44 passing)
#2 in redzone defense- 37.1 red zone TD%
#2 in defensive TD efficieny - opponents scored TDs on 14.5% of possessions
#5 in first downs allowed - 278
#5 pass defense - 188.9 passing ypg.

If our offense didn't go 3 and out every other possesion they would have been top 10 in total yards allowed instead of #13. Our Defense was actually pretty good in '07. In '08 without Allen we have one of the worst Defenses in the league. Coincidence?

wazu
01-04-2009, 08:25 PM
It's not like the front office got together over cocktails and decided to randomly trade him for picks.

Whether they did it over cocktails or breakfast is irrelevant. They did it. I don't believe it was random, just a huge, obvious mistake.

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 08:25 PM
You're pretending that he didn't refuse to play for us. It's not like the front office got together over cocktails and decided to randomly trade him for picks.

He refused to play for us because we wouldn't pay him.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:26 PM
You're pretending that he didn't refuse to play for us. It's not like the front office got together over cocktails and decided to randomly trade him for picks.

.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:27 PM
Get the **** over it, or go buy a ****ing Vikings jersey.

I just might do that.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:27 PM
Please name all three future starters and the special teamer.

Albert, Cottam, Morgan and Robinson.

KcMizzou
01-04-2009, 08:28 PM
I just might do that.Obligatory...

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:28 PM
Albert, Cottam, Morgan and Robinson.

I only see one who is a sure starter. Also, so it's not Charles and is Cottam?

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:28 PM
Jared acted like a big fucking baby over the whole deal. I thought it was a bad move, but I did and still do understand why the Chiefs didn't want to break the bank on a drunk.

kcpasco
01-04-2009, 08:29 PM
:toast: Heres to Allen getting lots of sacks in the regular season and being 1 and done in the playoffs because the Vikes still have absolute shit at QB.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:29 PM
Obligatory...

LMAO

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Jared acted like a big ****ing baby over the whole deal. I thought it was a bad move, but I did and still do understand why the Chiefs didn't want to break the bank on a drunk.

He was only acting like a baby because Carl lied to him about paying him.

smittysbar
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
People also forget that if Carl would have resigned him before the last year of his contract, it wouldn't have cost near as much.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
I only see one who is a sure starter. Also, so it's not Charles and is Cottam?


Go ahead. Bookmark the post.

Cottam will be the starter when Gonzalez is traded/retires, and Morgan could be the starter as soon as 2009, depending on the coaching staff.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Hey truth is carl made that situation unbareable it sounds like he promised allen a raise if he played out the year on his current deal. Then in order to low ball him proclaimed you are an at risk player.


Carl lost us
Tait and
allen plain and simple.

I love the trade though as some have stated we don't know what morgan can do he may be better than both page and pollard you really don't know.

Truthfully I'm getting excited about Piolli for the first time or ever watching and following the chiefs I'd be confident that our GM will get the right guys. I hope I'm not disapointed and we hire a cheap gm.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
Jared plays his ass off that is for sure. Can't fault his effort now maybe stafford is on the board and they trade up to get him and we can trade down and draft a couple DE's

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
People also forget that if Carl would have resigned him before the last year of his contract, it wouldn't have cost near as much.

You mean the year before, when he demanded a trade - for the first time - and right after his SECOND conviction in KC?

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:30 PM
:toast: Heres to Allen getting lots of sacks in the regular season and being 1 and done in the playoffs because the Vikes still have absolute shit at QB.

Here's to us picking in the top 10 for the next 5 years.

wazu
01-04-2009, 08:31 PM
Albert, Cottam, Morgan and Robinson.

So let's weigh this, you are allowed to pick 1 of the following 2 options:

Option 1

OT Ryan Clady
DE Jared Allen

Option 2

OT Brandon Albert
DT Glenn Dorsey
TE Brad Cottam
S Dajuan Morgan
"Special Teamer" Robinson (sorry, can't remember his first name.)

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:31 PM
Whether they did it over cocktails or breakfast is irrelevant. They did it. I don't believe it was random, just a huge, obvious mistake.

Are you high? He didn't want to be here.We got THREE possible pro-bowlers in Albert, Morgan and Charles and only have to pay them a fraction of what Minny gave Allen.

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:32 PM
So let's weigh this, you are allowed to pick 1 of the following 2 options:

Option 1

OT Ryan Clady
DE Jared Allen

Option 2

OT Brandon Albert
DT Glenn Dorsey
TE Brad Cottam
S Dajuan Morgan
"Special Teamer" Robinson (sorry, can't remember his first name.)

Option 2. Way more cap room and potential, and it's Charles not Cottam

Basileus777
01-04-2009, 08:32 PM
People also forget that if Carl would have resigned him before the last year of his contract, it wouldn't have cost near as much.

And that's exactly what good teams do; they lock up their good young players before they become free agents or break out. The Chargers and Eagles are known for this.

ChiefsCountry
01-04-2009, 08:32 PM
Chiefs would have took Dorsey with or without Allen.

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:33 PM
He was only acting like a baby because Carl lied to him about paying him.

I don't care why he was doing it. If he didn't want people making an issue out of his being a stupid fucking drunk, he should have stopped drinking before it became one.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 08:33 PM
Wow ok i stated before i'll do it again

the trade got us


Branden Albert
Jamal Charles
Dajuan Morgan
Kevin Robinson

we didn't have our pick because we traded it to the lions for the 15th Cottam was the third we got in exchange with lions so he wasn't part of that deal

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:34 PM
So let's weigh this, you are allowed to pick 1 of the following 2 options:

Option 1

OT Ryan Clady
DE Jared Allen

Option 2

OT Brandon Albert
DT Glenn Dorsey
TE Brad Cottam
S Dajuan Morgan
"Special Teamer" Robinson (sorry, can't remember his first name.)

Wow.

Way to cherry pick there.

Nice assumption they would have picked Clady to make your argument look better.

Even with that assumption, Option 2 will likely have more of a positive impact on the next 10 years of Chiefs football than Option 1 would, regardless of the ridiculous contract we would have had to give an immature alcoholic.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 08:35 PM
That this is over

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:35 PM
Let's say that Allen would have been worth 2 additional wins this season. What is a better position for our future:

Picking 6th with a franchise DE and no Left Tackle
or
Picking 2nd with a franchise LT for the next 10-15 years and $30 million in cap room

I'll take the second scenario any day, and it doesn't even figure in the production of Jamaal Charles. Now we have more options. I would like to see us send LJ packing and start Charles at RB, take a stab at drafting a potential franchise QB with the 3rd pick, and use the cap space to bring in Julius Peppers. All of a sudden, you turned Jared Allen (and the 6th pick in the 2009 draft) into a franchise QB, starting RB, and an all-pro DE.


I hope Albert becomes a franchise LT for us, and he looks good this year. However, he could've just as easily been a Trezelle Jenkins or Tony Mandarich or Robert Gallery. We stuck a league-leading pass rusher into the slot machine and pulled the arm, which was not a good risk, OnTheWarpath's alcoholism issues aside.

Let me ask folks about the alcohol issue, because I have no experience with that. My impression is that a lot of young men get drunk frequently, based on what I read here and some research projects I've done. Do people think he's an alcoholic because of the DUI's? I guess I view that as a stupid lack of planning rather than proof that he's an alcoholic. If it's just about getting drunk, then we must have a lot of alcoholics on this board. (This is a sincere question, not an argument. I really don't know.)

smittysbar
01-04-2009, 08:35 PM
ok so i looked it up so there is no confussion

from the trade with vikes in the draft we got

Branden Albert
Jamal Charles
Dajuan Morgan
Kevin Robinson

that is the four players to judge this trade by

to answer the charles was our pick thats not true cause we traded our third round pick to the lions along with the vikes 17 to lions in order to draft albert at 15 because whoever was 16 was gonna draft him.

I hope that clears things up

Go ahead. Bookmark the post.

Cottam will be the starter when Gonzalez is traded/retires, and Morgan could be the starter as soon as 2009, depending on the coaching staff.

Cottam wasn't picked with their pick

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:36 PM
I think it was Jamaal Charles. Still a high quality player.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Chiefs would have took Dorsey with or without Allen.

Also an assumption, but much more likely. Staying true to the board makesmuch more sense than some harebrained idea about trading back and taking a lower rated player.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:36 PM
So let's weigh this, you are allowed to pick 1 of the following 2 options:

Option 1

OT Ryan Clady
DE Jared Allen

Option 2

OT Brandon Albert
DT Glenn Dorsey
TE Brad Cottam
S Dajuan Morgan
"Special Teamer" Robinson (sorry, can't remember his first name.)

Wouldn't we have had our pick of all Tackles aside from Long in option 1?

kcpasco
01-04-2009, 08:36 PM
Here's to us picking in the top 10 for the next 5 years.

And if you think Jared Allen alone would have prevented that, I want some of what your smoking.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:37 PM
I don't care why he was doing it. If he didn't want people making an issue out of his being a stupid fucking drunk, he should have stopped drinking before it became one.

This.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:37 PM
I think it was Jamaal Charles. Still a high quality player.

Also this.

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:38 PM
Wouldn't we have had our pick of all Tackles aside from Long in option 1?

so

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:38 PM
And if you think Jared Allen alone would have prevented that, I want some of what your smoking.

I'm just saying the Chiefs are no better off than the Vikings and Jared Allen.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:40 PM
Are you high? He didn't want to be here.We got THREE possible pro-bowlers in Albert, Morgan and Charles and only have to pay them a fraction of what Minny gave Allen.

Morgan is a possible pro bowler? Unless there's a position for Left Blown Assignment, I'm not sure about that.

The problem is that he didn't want to be here because of Carl Peterson. The trade was not about getting value for the Chiefs. The trade was because it was either Carl or Jared, and the Chiefs kept Carl. For one year.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:41 PM
so

People are all hyped about Albert being a solid starter for 15 years so we could have had him.

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:41 PM
Dujuan Morgan is going to be a good player.

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:42 PM
People are all hyped about Albert being a solid starter for 15 years so we could have had him.

Yes. We could have had him but Clady was selected first, so whatever I guess

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:43 PM
Can someone respond to my alcoholism question in Post 88? I want to know why Allen is labeled an alcoholic rather than a wild guy with poor planning skills. Maybe he's an alcoholic, I don't know. But I'm not sure that's a confirmed diagnosis.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Morgan is a possible pro bowler? Unless there's a position for Left Blown Assignment, I'm not sure about that.

The problem is that he didn't want to be here because of Carl Peterson. The trade was not about getting value for the Chiefs. The trade was because it was either Carl or Jared, and the Chiefs kept Carl. For one year.

Kevin, you're too intelligent of a man to miss this as badly as you are.

REGARDLESS of his relationship with Carl Peterson, Jared Allen is an immature drunk.

4 alcohol related arrests dating back to his college days, 2 of them while in the NFL.

As a business owner yourself, I have a hard time believing you'd shell out top dollar for an employee with these personal issues.

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:44 PM
Morgan is a possible pro bowler? Unless there's a position for Left Blown Assignment, I'm not sure about that.

The problem is that he didn't want to be here because of Carl Peterson. The trade was not about getting value for the Chiefs. The trade was because it was either Carl or Jared, and the Chiefs kept Carl. For one year.

So you'd rather have Dorsey and Allen with no cap room and a possiblitly of Allen being suspended for an entire year at any moment?

kcpasco
01-04-2009, 08:45 PM
I'm just saying the Chiefs are no better off than the Vikings and Jared Allen.

I like Jared, I think he's an absolute stud at DE

If we could only go back in time and give LJ's money to him. But we can't so I'm glad we don't have 2 huge contracts without the ability to sign other players.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 08:46 PM
so wait a minute you would have been happy taking Claddy at 5 not on what he did this year but the bad reviews he was getting at the combine and such. It's easy to say claddy would have made since looking now but at that time he was considered raw.

We don't know what Dorsey can do yet what happens if because we made this trade we got him and he turns out to be an all pro because of that deal we got two great players besides everyone else in that deal.

Now i loved jared allen he was my favorite chief however when I looked at it I said we got a steal of a trade for a DE who is one strike away. I'm a bartender so I can speak on this if a person is that out of controll sometimes a DuI will wake you up and you'll change.

However some people don't learn and continue to be at risk I hate to say this because he was my favorite chief it is too much to invest in. I hope he doesn't do it again and its woke him up. But I've heard the man justin this woke me up I'm never gonna drink and drive again. ONly to come back a couple of months later and tell me they got another DUI.

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:47 PM
If alcohol has interfered with your career, it's a sign you may be an alcoholic, that's all. If you've had multiple DUIs, that's usually an indicator too.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:47 PM
So you'd rather have Dorsey and Allen with no cap room and a possiblitly of Allen being suspended for an entire year at any moment?

He wouldn't have been suspended for a year because his slate was cleared. I believe that means he'd start with a warning and so forth.

Mecca
01-04-2009, 08:48 PM
I see the Jared Allen stuff has returned.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:49 PM
I like Jared, I think he's an absolute stud at DE

If we could only go back in time and give LJ's money to him. But we can't so I'm glad we don't have 2 huge contracts without the ability to sign other players.

That's the real problem. LJ's huge contract had a big impact on Allen's trade IMO.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:49 PM
Dujuan Morgan is going to be a good player.

I hope so. I hope we get lucky and they're all good players.

I'm just still mad about losing Allen. He's the type of player I really like watching.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:49 PM
He wouldn't have been suspended for a year because his slate was cleared. I believe that means he'd start with a warning and so forth.

His slate wasn't cleared until AFTER the trade, and there was NO reason to believe at the time that his slate would be cleared.

And with Goodell as Commish, the slate being cleared thing carries no weight at all. If you disrespect the league, you're going to pay.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:50 PM
I see the Jared Allen stuff has returned.

It's amazing how many people would rather have a drunk redneck than 4 future pieces of the puzzle, one of them being at the 2nd most important position on the field...

Brock
01-04-2009, 08:51 PM
I hope so. I hope we get lucky and they're all good players.

I'm just still mad about losing Allen. He's the type of player I really like watching.

I hated losing him too. It was probably a smart business decision though.

Mecca
01-04-2009, 08:52 PM
Look my personal belief is you don't drop the biggest contract for a defensive player ever to a guy with a drinking problem that just opened a bar.

With or without Jared Allen this is a horrible team, people need to let it go that was one of the right moves the Chiefs made.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 08:53 PM
However I'm also the guy who got critizied a couple of years ago when I said LJ has a bad attitude and we should trade him for draft picks and not bank all our money on him.

Which people on this board said you are crazy he's the best rb in the league lol now who looks right.

not being mean bout it but just stating the facts carl petterson was an idiot to give LJ that deal and that money could have payed allen but that's too much money to invest in a player with risk. No matter how beloved he was.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 08:53 PM
I hated losing him too. It was probably a smart business decision though.

this minus the probably part

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:53 PM
I hated losing him too. It was probably a smart business decision though.

Look my personal belief is you don't drop the biggest contract for a defensive player ever to a guy with a drinking problem that just opened a bar.

With or without Jared Allen this is a horrible team, people need to let it go that was one of the right moves the Chiefs made.

Co-signed.

Mecca
01-04-2009, 08:54 PM
However I'm also the guy who got critizied a couple of years ago when I said LJ has a bad attitude and we should trade him for draft picks and not bank all our money on him.

Which people on this board said you are crazy he's the best rb in the league lol now who looks right.

not being mean bout it but just stating the facts carl petterson was an idiot to give LJ that deal and that money could have payed allen but that's too much money to invest in a player with risk. No matter how beloved he was.

They should have dumped LJ too but thath as more to do with his position than him personally.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 08:55 PM
I just love allen because he is a drunken white redneck that plays balls out reminds me of me.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 08:55 PM
Kevin, you're too intelligent of a man to miss this as badly as you are.

REGARDLESS of his relationship with Carl Peterson, Jared Allen is an immature drunk.

4 alcohol related arrests dating back to his college days, 2 of them while in the NFL.

As a business owner yourself, I have a hard time believing you'd shell out top dollar for an employee with these personal issues.


I have no idea of my employees' personal lives. I grade them on how they perform at work, and Jared Allen had a pretty good work record with the Chiefs.

Brock's point is valid about alcohol interfering with his work, via the two-game suspension. Maybe that means he's an alcoholic, but I don't think every person with a DUI is an alcoholic. Some are just stupid, and being stupid doesn't mean you can't be a good defensive lineman in the NFL.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:55 PM
However I'm also the guy who got critizied a couple of years ago when I said LJ has a bad attitude and we should trade him for draft picks and not bank all our money on him.

Which people on this board said you are crazy he's the best rb in the league lol now who looks right.

not being mean bout it but just stating the facts carl petterson was an idiot to give LJ that deal and that money could have payed allen but that's too much money to invest in a player with risk. No matter how beloved he was.

There were a LOT of people that didn't want Carl to give LJ that contract.

And speaking of risk, LJ has YET to be convicted of anything, unlike Allen.

The sooner we start treating RB's the way the Colts do, the better off we'll be as a franchise. Draft, trade/cut after 1st contract, rinse, repeat.

L.A. Chieffan
01-04-2009, 08:56 PM
I'm just still mad about losing Allen. He's the type of player I really like watching.

He was my favorite player on the Chiefs.

I bought an authentic Allen Jersey and had to get it custom made.

I was one of the few on here defending him when the DUI news first came out.
He still is one of my favorites in the NFL, but I came to realize it is what is and we got some good out of it.

unothadeal
01-04-2009, 08:56 PM
not being mean bout it but just stating the facts carl petterson was an idiot to give LJ that deal and that money could have payed allen but that's too much money to invest in a player with risk. No matter how beloved he was.

If LJ had not been re-signed, how much money would be left in cap room if the Chiefs re-signed Allen?

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 08:56 PM
I have no idea of my employees' personal lives. I grade them on how they perform at work, and Jared Allen had a pretty good work record with the Chiefs.

Brock's point is valid about alcohol interfering with his work, via the two-game suspension. Maybe that means he's an alcoholic, but I don't think every person with a DUI is an alcoholic. Some are just stupid, and being stupid doesn't mean you can't be a good defensive lineman in the NFL.

In this case, you would.

And he's not just a guy with a DUI, he's a guy with FOUR alcohol related arrests, 2 of them being DUI's - who thought it would be wise to open a BAR as a business investment.

Mecca
01-04-2009, 08:59 PM
It's not like he was Terrell Owens just running his mouth in no danger of being suspended...Allen had been arrested several teams and suspended on the verge of a year long suspension opens a bar then wants to be the highest paid D player in the league..

Tell me how a person thinking in their right mind thinks this sounds like a good idea?

Chiefshrink
01-04-2009, 08:59 PM
Only time will tell but we can all be proud Chief fans that we drafted a "gem in the rough". I just wished LJ's $$ would have went to Allen instead letting LJ go. Hindsite is 20/20 though.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:00 PM
i bet he still drinks, just has someone baby sit him at his house

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:05 PM
well whoever asked about why is the DUI thing bad I hope I answered it been a bartender for 8 years I"ve seen it all and for once I have some authority to speak on this .


As I stated some people learn from a incident and never do anything that stupid again others keep making bad choices.

jared was my favorite chief he was the first one I really only cheered for by his name since DT so it killed me we traded him. Then I thought about it one
dui fine but two?

Let me ask you this how do you know he isn't just on his best behavior I've seen it before he could slip if his track record stands.

great de no question on the field top notch but once again way too big of a risk to invest that kind of money on.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:06 PM
well whoever asked about why is the DUI thing bad I hope I answered it been a bartender for 8 years I"ve seen it all and for once I have some authority to speak on this .


As I stated some people learn from a incident and never do anything that stupid again others keep making bad choices.

jared was my favorite chief he was the first one I really only cheered for by his name since DT so it killed me we traded him. Then I thought about it one
dui fine but two?

Let me ask you this how do you know he isn't just on his best behavior I've seen it before he could slip if his track record stands.

great de no question on the field top notch but once again way too big of a risk to invest that kind of money on.

:clap:

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:07 PM
Only time will tell but we can all be proud Chief fans that we drafted a "gem in the rough". I just wished LJ's $$ would have went to Allen instead letting LJ go. Hindsite is 20/20 though.

in this case it is not. Running backs in the league have the lifespan as a huey gunner in nam'

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:10 PM
thanks denonpenz

I agree how great has tomlinson been guess what guys he's done rb 4 to six if they are lucky you should never give long time contracts to rbs you can find them . Don't you think sd is sorry bout trading turner now should have tradded tomlinson LOL

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:11 PM
thanks denonpenz

I agree how great has tomlinson been guess what guys he's done rb 4 to six if they are lucky you should never give long time contracts to rbs you can find them . Don't you think sd is sorry bout trading turner now should have tradded tomlinson LOL

I couldn't agree more.

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:13 PM
ok so i looked it up so there is no confussion

from the trade with vikes in the draft we got

Branden Albert
Jamal Charles
Dajuan Morgan
Kevin Robinson

that is the four players to judge this trade by

to answer the charles was our pick thats not true cause we traded our third round pick to the lions along with the vikes 17 to lions in order to draft albert at 15 because whoever was 16 was gonna draft him.

I hope that clears things up


I would have sworn'
they traded the pick they got for Green
the 1st of the 5th round

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 09:14 PM
I just love allen because he is a drunken white redneck that plays balls out reminds me of me.

I think that's why I like him, too. He reminds me of you.


I'll readily admit I'm wrong if Allen ends up ruining his career because of alcohol. I'm just willing to bet against it. And right now, the score for 2009 is:

Jared Allen - 1 pro bowl
Albert, Charles, Morgan - 0 pro bowls

Hopefully they'll pass him at some point.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:14 PM
Me and my brother the other day were talking bout this and I told him too much risk jonathan too much risk.

keg in kc
01-04-2009, 09:15 PM
Sure they did. And so did we.

Come on people. This is last year's news. Let's find something new to bitch about for 2009.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:16 PM
I think that's why I like him, too. He reminds me of you.


I'll readily admit I'm wrong if Allen ends up ruining his career because of alcohol. I'm just willing to bet against it. And right now, the score for 2009 is:

Jared Allen - 1 pro bowl
Albert, Charles, Morgan - 0 pro bowls

Hopefully they'll pass him at some point.

he isn't going to ruin his career with the vikes, but sure as boner on penis he would have got another dui here

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:17 PM
Me and my brother the other day were talking bout this and I told him too much risk jonathan too much risk.

rep

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:17 PM
nope went to nfl .com and they explained the entire trade I don't know who we got for miami's pick in the fifth

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 09:18 PM
I think that's why I like him, too. He reminds me of you.


I'll readily admit I'm wrong if Allen ends up ruining his career because of alcohol. I'm just willing to bet against it. And right now, the score for 2009 is:

Jared Allen - 1 pro bowl
Albert, Charles, Morgan - 0 pro bowls

Hopefully they'll pass him at some point.

Alcohol was just PART of the equation.

There are 70M other reasons why he was dealt.

Ever notice that good franchises let star players reach free agency and don't lock them up for themselves? Because they want TOO MUCH MONEY.

We actually got a nice haul in return, and people are upset.

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:18 PM
We let napolean harris go and he got a 10th of our sacks in one game today

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 09:19 PM
We let napolean harris go and he got a 10th of our sacks in one game today

LMAO

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:20 PM
ok we traded the green pick to the lions also in order to move up to get albert

man we risked alot to get him i didn't realize that at the time

Demonpenz
01-04-2009, 09:21 PM
ok we traded the green pick to the lions also in order to move up to get albert

man we risked alot to get him i didn't realize that at the time

this

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:22 PM
Damn well let's just hope pioli or someone smart is the hire. and fires herm LOL

I'll take a 6 win season if we have someone smart in charge

Ari Chi3fs
01-04-2009, 09:22 PM
Alcohol was just PART of the equation.

There are 70M other reasons why he was dealt.

Ever notice that good franchises let star players reach free agency and don't lock them up for themselves? Because they want TOO MUCH MONEY.

We actually got a nice haul in return, and people are upset.

Yeah, we didn't get shit for John Tain't.

alanm
01-04-2009, 09:24 PM
Vikings win easily.

Chiefs won 2 games and set an NFL record for worst pass rush in football history. Of course Jared was bickering he was dealing with Carl and playing for one of the worst teams with no end in sight.

Vikes went from 8-8 to 10-6 and to a playoff appearance.

Only time will tell for sure and I hope the Chiefs hit on those picks, Albert so far is the only pick I like.So you're saying that because the Vikes won a whopping 2 more games and were bounced in the 1st rnd that they easily got the better deal?
I'd rather have the guys we got and hopefully a franchise QB in April.
Plus saving a shitload of cash in the process in able to go out after a guy or two to plug in where needed.

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:25 PM
ok we traded the green pick to the lions also in order to move up to get albert

man we risked alot to get him i didn't realize that at the time

and switched thirds

Deberg_1990
01-04-2009, 09:25 PM
Yeah, we didn't get shit for John Tain't.

heh, people still wax nostalgic for that guy and hes never even made the pro bowl.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:27 PM
Well one idiot is gone Carl

hopefully the other follows - HERM

Mecca
01-04-2009, 09:27 PM
I hope the Chiefs get a franchise QB this year so I never have to hear about Jared Allen or Tyler Thigpen again, that is my wish.

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:27 PM
So I THINK
#19 + a 5th -switched 3rds
got #17 and a 7th rounder

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 09:28 PM
yeah that was the trade but cottam wasn' t a pick in the vike trade it was Charles

Deberg_1990
01-04-2009, 09:28 PM
I hope the Chiefs get a franchise QB this year so I never have to hear about Jared Allen or Tyler Thigpen again, that is my wish.


Are u kidding me? We still hear about Brodie Croyle from a few guys on here.

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 09:29 PM
Yeah, we didn't get shit for John Tain't.

John Tait wasn't an elite player, contrary to popular belief.

Chiefs fans have made him out to be a 1st ballot HOFer.

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:34 PM
yeah that was the trade but cottam wasn' t a pick in the vike trade it was Charles

THis trade could go on for days if broken down
the traded 5th was from trading Green
from #19 to #17 by trading a former #12 trade(GReen from StL)

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:38 PM
and in the trade for Green
they got a pick they used for Daunte Hall
then traded Hall to StL for .........

Mecca
01-04-2009, 09:39 PM
Are u kidding me? We still hear about Brodie Croyle from a few guys on here.

Thankfully that is few and far between.

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 09:40 PM
If the alcohol is the problem put it in the contract. People get no trouble making clauses and if he was confident he wouldn't have gotten in trouble he would have agreed to it. Dorsey has a 5 year $51 mill deal JA has a 6 year $73 mill deal. Thats $2 mill/yr difference. I'm sure we'd have no cap space eh? I know Jared has $9 mill more in guaranteed money, but considering he is a proven player IMHO he is worth it as a DE compared to the difference of the DT. A lot of people are saying sign Suggs or Peppers what do you think they are gonna be cheap? Also I feel we would have traded down we supposedly had offers and we could have gotten our LT still and got a DT later in the draft. If you have an impact player who is only 26 lock him up for a few years then let him go when he's not worth the cash.

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:46 PM
all so in the trade for Hall
the Chiefs swopped 3rds
with STL in '07 draft

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-04-2009, 09:48 PM
The way I see it we got the better end. They got one great player and we got what looks like two starters. Jared and his 15 sacks didn't change anything. They are done already. Like alot of us know, you need a team not a superstar. Team defense and team offense are what's important.

I will say a solid QB is a must. We need a franchise QB bad or nothing else we do will matter at all.

I haven't read the thread so this might have been said. The Viks got a guy who beat the Chiefs in sacks all by himself and a long term solution at DE, plus the playoffs. We got 2-14 and no one at that position. They win.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 09:50 PM
John Tait wasn't an elite player, contrary to popular belief.

Chiefs fans have made him out to be a 1st ballot HOFer.


Dude, come on. Career rushing average of 28.0 yards per carry. That's more than five times Jim Brown's average. What more does he have to do?

blueballs
01-04-2009, 09:50 PM
wth the trade from STL(from Buffalo) for Hall
the Chiefs got Kolby Smith

aturnis
01-04-2009, 09:51 PM
He had more sacks by himself than our entire team.........what more can be said?

Almost double our whole team.

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 09:52 PM
I haven't read the thread so this might have been said. The Viks got a guy who beat the Chiefs in sacks all by himself and a long term solution at DE, plus the playoffs. We got 2-14 and no one at that position. They win.

This. We drafted Dorsey so people would look at our line and see a stud DT and not that we are missing our old stud DE. If we still had JA we would have got a left tackle so everyone saying we have a LT for 15 years and all that we would have gotten that anyway. The other guys we got are good and all but are they worth the game changing franchise DE we are looking to replace now?

DaWolf
01-04-2009, 10:01 PM
This. We drafted Dorsey so people would look at our line and see a stud DT and not that we are missing our old stud DE. If we still had JA we would have got a left tackle so everyone saying we have a LT for 15 years and all that we would have gotten that anyway. The other guys we got are good and all but are they worth the game changing franchise DE we are looking to replace now?

I guess that depends on if Dorsey winds up being a bust or not. I am curious what a competent defensive coordinator would be able to do with him.

Hindsight is 20/20. If we knew Dorsey wasn't going to make an impact, Carl and Herm would be gone, and could have traded down from #5 to get Albert and some other guys, then we probably could have managed to re-sign Allen and get a LT anyway.

Whatever the case, water under the bridge. Here's to a new GM who won't make crappy decisions and alienate half the players on the team...

triple
01-04-2009, 10:02 PM
will the crying never end?

he's gone. he's not coming back. he's gone and the people who made the decision are gone.

no matter how much you love mulleted drunks who think 69 jokes are funny and dance on the field like they are penetrating a sheep, it doesn't matter.

he is not coming back. he's gone. we have branden albert now. we got some picks, we have $75 million unlike the Vikings, who paid it to him.

i hope when the new GM comes along people find something else to complain about because this is really tiresome.

Jared Allen is gone, he's been gone for a whole season now. Carl Peterson is gone too. it's water under the bridge, why the incessant bitching about it

OnTheWarpath58
01-04-2009, 10:04 PM
will the crying never end?

he's gone. he's not coming back. he's gone and the people who made the decision are gone.

no matter how much you love mulleted drunks who dance on the field who think 69 jokes are funny and dance on the field like they are penetrating a sheep, it doesn't matter.

he is not coming back. he's gone. we have branden albert now. we got some picks, we have $75 million unlike the Vikings, who paid it to him.

i hope when the new GM comes along people find something else to complain about because this is really tiresome.

Jared Allen is gone, he's been gone for a whole season now. Carl Peterson is gone too. it's water under the bridge, why the incessant bitching about it

:clap:

triple
01-04-2009, 10:05 PM
:clap:

you made the clap smiley! people would have clapped for 4 wins instead of 2 if jared allen were still here! waaaahhhhh!!! :deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee::deevee:

Chiefshrink
01-04-2009, 10:12 PM
I think that's why I like him, too. He reminds me of you.


I'll readily admit I'm wrong if Allen ends up ruining his career because of alcohol. I'm just willing to bet against it. And right now, the score for 2009 is:

Jared Allen - 1 pro bowl
Albert, Charles, Morgan - 0 pro bowls

Hopefully they'll pass him at some point.

Listen just give it time. If we get a good GM and coach in here that establish just half the dynasty of the Steelers,Niners and Pats it will be well worth it.

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 10:16 PM
I'm a n00b and just trying to get my post count up so i'm gonna throw this out there. No bitching or crying just something to talk about. Do the Giants win the Superbowl without a pass rush in Brady's face all day? That offense destroyed teams that year and when the Giants got consistent pressure they struggled. We traded away our pass rush. It's over and done with now, but we still have to find a way to get after the QB.

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 10:17 PM
speaking of which it's being leaked that pioli isn't happy with the browns cap situation next year and feels they are gonna be over the cap

Chiefshrink
01-04-2009, 10:17 PM
I am curious what a competent defensive coordinator would be able to do with him.



He will put Dorsey in a scheme that works to his strengths along with surrounding him with better DE talent. That should be the first thing he does on top of taking a stud LB in the upcoming draft. Not necessarily a 1st rounder but a top 2nd rdr.

Mecca
01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
I'm a n00b and just trying to get my post count up so i'm gonna throw this out there. No bitching or crying just something to talk about. Do the Giants win the Superbowl without a pass rush in Brady's face all day? That offense destroyed teams that year and when the Giants got consistent pressure they struggled. We traded away our pass rush. It's over and done with now, but we still have to find a way to get after the QB.

Do the Giants win the Superbowl without Eli Manning making an outstanding play at the end of the game?

blueballs
01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
I'm a n00b and just trying to get my post count up so i'm gonna throw this out there. No bitching or crying just something to talk about. Do the Giants win the Superbowl without a pass rush in Brady's face all day? That offense destroyed teams that year and when the Giants got consistent pressure they struggled. We traded away our pass rush. It's over and done with now, but we still have to find a way to get after the QB.

#49

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 10:18 PM
lol he probably won't leave NE lol that would be our luck

chiefscafan
01-04-2009, 10:19 PM
this team is ready for a new era past decisions don't mean anything now

blueballs
01-04-2009, 10:20 PM
#49

come to think of it
maybe Pioli wants some revenge

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 10:21 PM
Do the Giants win the Superbowl without Eli Manning making an outstanding play at the end of the game?

Nope they sure don't...plenty of threads discussing who to take with that #3 pick going on right now.

Chiefshrink
01-04-2009, 10:23 PM
I'm still not sold on Cassel. The real question is would Cassel have played as well as Thiggy on this same Chiefs team. I say no because I don't think Cassel is as physically or mentally as tough as Thiggy. Thiggy made something out of shit this year and I don't think Cassel would have had the mental toughness or fortitude for that matter coming in here from a 'posh pampered environment'. Just IMO.

Rain Man
01-04-2009, 10:34 PM
Of course, the other frustrating part of this is that in the past three years, we've drafted the top-rated defensive tackle in Dorsey, a DT who was considered one of the top DTs in the draft in Tyler, Hali who was a consensus legitimate first-rounder, and McBride, who...well, I have no idea where the McBride pick came from. That is not a group that should've set a sack record in the wrong direction, and it's hard to believe that all of them are busts.

Boyceofsummer
01-04-2009, 10:34 PM
This guy is at his pinnacle. The Chiefs could not use this now. The cap space and potential picks and or money to sign talent was an immediate need. Allen will most likely go downhill from this day forth. I'm thinking of all of the kissing my sister senarios for the Vikings. Deja vu!

Mecca
01-04-2009, 10:35 PM
Of course, the other frustrating part of this is that in the past three years, we've drafted the top-rated defensive tackle in Dorsey, a DT who was considered one of the top DTs in the draft in Tyler, Hali who was a consensus legitimate first-rounder, and McBride, who...well, I have no idea where the McBride pick came from. That is not a group that should've set a sack record in the wrong direction, and it's hard to believe that all of them are busts.

It's because outside of what Dorsey could be they are all complimentary players at best.

el borracho
01-04-2009, 10:41 PM
Looking only at the 2008 season, the Vikings got the better end of the deal and it wasn't even close.

Looking ahead, who can say? Albert looks to be a fixture, which is great but Robinson looks worthless, Morgan barely saw the field and while I think Charles is a good player I do not see him as a ProBowler nor a player to build a team around. I would say that both Albert and Morgan would have to make multiple ProBowls between them for the trade to tip in our favor.

el borracho
01-04-2009, 10:44 PM
By the way, we had to trade up to get Albert; that means the cost was slightly more than the pick we received from the Allen trade.

BigRock
01-04-2009, 10:45 PM
10 is a bit low, but your expectations are insane.

Why are they insane? Allen had 15.5 sacks last year despite only playing in 14 games. And even though he had middling talent at defensive tackle.

It's insane to think that, with a full 16 games and two Pro Bowl players at DT, he should be able to improve on those numbers?

I don't think it's insane at all. I think it's actually pretty logical to assume that his stats could improve in a situation that's so much more advantageous than the one he played in last year.

And I doubt the Vikings think it's insane considering the investment they made in him. The money has been talked about plenty, but let's not forget that they also gave up a first-round pick and two third-rounders. Add it all up and that's quite a haul. You don't put that much into 10-12 sack guy.

You're basically saying that the Vikings signed him expecting that he'd already peaked. I really do not think that's the case.

BigRock
01-04-2009, 10:46 PM
He wouldn't have been suspended for a year because his slate was cleared. I believe that means he'd start with a warning and so forth.

His slate was "cleared" under the substance abuse policy.

But he gets another DUI and his rosy red ass will be toasted crispy under the personal conduct policy, especially considering Goodell lightened his suspension last year. A year might be the starting point.

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 10:57 PM
His slate was "cleared" under the substance abuse policy.

But he gets another DUI and his rosy red ass will be toasted crispy under the personal conduct policy, especially considering Goodell lightened his suspension last year. A year might be the starting point.

Again put a clause in the contract...soon there will be a personal conduct clause in every NFL contract to go along with this personal conduct policy. If a player isn't willing to sign a contract that has that worded in, then he shouldn't be signed anyway. That would also be my argument to the NFLPA when they try to make sure this doesn't happen.

Valiant
01-04-2009, 11:36 PM
I have no idea of my employees' personal lives. I grade them on how they perform at work, and Jared Allen had a pretty good work record with the Chiefs.

Brock's point is valid about alcohol interfering with his work, via the two-game suspension. Maybe that means he's an alcoholic, but I don't think every person with a DUI is an alcoholic. Some are just stupid, and being stupid doesn't mean you can't be a good defensive lineman in the NFL.

How many DUI's does it take to be an alcoholic??

Valiant
01-04-2009, 11:38 PM
well whoever asked about why is the DUI thing bad I hope I answered it been a bartender for 8 years I"ve seen it all and for once I have some authority to speak on this .


As I stated some people learn from a incident and never do anything that stupid again others keep making bad choices.

jared was my favorite chief he was the first one I really only cheered for by his name since DT so it killed me we traded him. Then I thought about it one
dui fine but two?

Let me ask you this how do you know he isn't just on his best behavior I've seen it before he could slip if his track record stands.

great de no question on the field top notch but once again way too big of a risk to invest that kind of money on.

Actually we should have had a few Chiefs fans tale him after their loss and video tape him drinking his sorrows away as he is driving..

Kyle DeLexus
01-04-2009, 11:44 PM
How many DUI's does it take to be an alcoholic??

Personally I feel DUI's aren't what makes someone an alcoholic. Alcoholism is a disease and that person feels a need to drink. A DUI just means that the person isn't the brightest crayon in the box. I've had plenty of friends get DUI's, some even multiple DUI's, not one of them I'd consider an alcoholic. They just feel that they are alright to drive and that is a stupid mistake, but in now way classifies them as an alcoholic. If your using that logic it's like saying the guy who drinks a 12 pack every night when he gets home because he feels he needs it but doesn't go out driving afterwards so has never gotten a DUI isn't an alcoholic?

Valiant
01-04-2009, 11:45 PM
Again put a clause in the contract...soon there will be a personal conduct clause in every NFL contract to go along with this personal conduct policy. If a player isn't willing to sign a contract that has that worded in, then he shouldn't be signed anyway. That would also be my argument to the NFLPA when they try to make sure this doesn't happen.

Personal conduct clause means jack shit depending on how much the NFLPA want to fight it..

Valiant
01-04-2009, 11:48 PM
Personally I feel DUI's aren't what makes someone an alcoholic. Alcoholism is a disease and that person feels a need to drink. A DUI just means that the person isn't the brightest crayon in the box. I've had plenty of friends get DUI's, some even multiple DUI's, not one of them I'd consider an alcoholic. They just feel that they are alright to drive and that is a stupid mistake, but in now way classifies them as an alcoholic. If your using that logic it's like saying the guy who drinks a 12 pack every night when he gets home because he feels he needs it but doesn't go out driving afterwards so has never gotten a DUI isn't an alcoholic?

So getting a DUI in college and then two more in the NFL does not mean he has problems with the drink?? Both JA and your 12pack a night guy are alcoholics..

Kyle DeLexus
01-05-2009, 12:03 AM
So getting a DUI in college and then two more in the NFL does not mean he has problems with the drink?? Both JA and your 12pack a night guy are alcoholics..

Your basing too much on the DUI's. He very well could be an alcoholic I have no idea, I've never sat down and discussed this with JA. The point is no one else on here has an idea either. Like I said I have many friend who have done the exact same thing. For their first few offenses the consequences weren't great enough for them to act any differently. Once a couple of them got their licenses taken they changed. My point is that out of all my friends who have gotten multiple DUI's, only one still drinks and he's always been a social drinker that made stupid mistakes at the end of the night. If you know anything about JA, you know he is a thrill seeker and lives his life to it's fullest. That could explain why he liked to drink and until the consequences were high enough, he still did what he wanted. Even after his last offense he only served 48 hours of jail time. Also, after his last DUI he has stopped drinking yet everyone still calls him an alcoholic. He was just still trying to live the college life and had NFL money to back that life. I feel he has grown up a little and hopefully realizes that it only took one time for him to get behind the wheel drunk to take anothers life.

Rigodan
01-05-2009, 01:56 AM
Do the Giants win the Superbowl without Eli Manning making an outstanding play at the end of the game?

You mean David Tyree right?

Rigodan
01-05-2009, 02:02 AM
will the crying never end?

he's gone. he's not coming back. he's gone and the people who made the decision are gone.

no matter how much you love mulleted drunks who think 69 jokes are funny and dance on the field like they are penetrating a sheep, it doesn't matter.

he is not coming back. he's gone. we have branden albert now. we got some picks, we have $75 million unlike the Vikings, who paid it to him.

i hope when the new GM comes along people find something else to complain about because this is really tiresome.

Jared Allen is gone, he's been gone for a whole season now. Carl Peterson is gone too. it's water under the bridge, why the incessant bitching about it


What? You want us to stop crying and bithcing about the Chiefs? I'm confused. This is CP isn't it?

Hoover
01-05-2009, 02:37 AM
I think this was a win win trade for both teams.

The Vikes get a young DE playmaker in Allen and the Chiefs were able to get their franchise LT and other solid players.

The problem for the Vikes is they neglected the QB position.

Ultra Peanut
01-05-2009, 02:45 AM
Eh. Win/win.

veist
01-05-2009, 03:12 AM
Eh, once again JA was a no show in the 4th quarter... unless/until he starts making a real impact in the 4th quarter when it matters is he really that great?

J Diddy
01-05-2009, 03:43 AM
Eh, once again JA was a no show in the 4th quarter... unless/until he starts making a real impact in the 4th quarter when it matters is he really that great?


his bank account says he is

oaklandhater
01-05-2009, 03:50 AM
I think this was a win win trade for both teams.

The Vikes get a young DE playmaker in Allen and the Chiefs were able to get their franchise LT and other solid players.

The problem for the Vikes is they neglected the QB position.

they pulled a classic chiefs move and went into the season with a blaring hole at QB hopeing every thing would be a ok.

veist
01-05-2009, 03:57 AM
That they were dumb enough to make him the highest paid defensive player in the league has no bearing on his abilities. It just simply speaks to the dysfunction that is the Vikes FO. This is the same team that has a HC that couldn't run the two minute drill to save his life, and doesn't understand the basic rules of time keeping in the NFL. And decided on a QB who is so wildly hot and cold its not even funny as their starter. Saddled with this handicap barely managed to win the NFC North with easily one of the most talented rosters in the NFL and went one and done in the playoffs. So lets not judge his talent on their ability to discern quality. Plus, give that he is the highest paid defensive player it makes it really easy to think of at least 5 players I'd rather have over him that are paid less and therefore aren't as good using your "who has the fattest stack" metric.

BigChiefFan
01-05-2009, 07:31 AM
Let's see... the best, young DE in the game or an above-average LT? Yea, we got screwed.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:32 AM
"Above average LT" ROFL

BigChiefFan
01-05-2009, 07:35 AM
"Above average LT" ROFLOh I forgot, some of you already have him as a lock for the HOF.

dirk digler
01-05-2009, 07:35 AM
I think both teams got exactly what they expected out of the deal. The Chiefs were 4-12 with Jared Allen, and knew Allen wasn't a player that you could build a franchise around. Furthermore, KC needed help in several areas, and decided that the picks and the allocated money would be more of an asset than one player.

The Vikes thought they were one or two players away from a Super Bowl caliber team. Problem is, that position probably wasn't DE...It was a QB. Hindsight is always 20/20. Either way, Allen will be a wrecking ball for them until the day he hangs it up (or takes another drink, or sours on their front office.) And the Chiefs got two very good players (one in which will anchor the O Line for years to come IMHO.) and cap space.

Yep couldn't agree more though it would have been nice to keep Allen because we are going to be looking for a DE this off-season.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:36 AM
Oh I forgot, some of you already have him as a lock for the HOF.

Oh I forgot, some of you can't see beyond this season or next.

unothadeal
01-05-2009, 07:38 AM
"Above average LT" ROFL

What is after "above average"? Good? Okay I'll give him "good." After that is "great?" He's definitely not "great."

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:40 AM
What is after "above average"? Good? Okay I'll give him "good." After that is "great?" He's definitely not "great."

Why on earth would anyone judge what Albert is or isn't after one season?
That's dumb, dumb, DUMB.

BigChiefFan
01-05-2009, 07:41 AM
Oh I forgot, some of you can't see beyond this season or next.
Well when comparing them CURRENTLY, that's all we have to go on, but don't let that stop you from pretending to act the convo starts and ends with you.

unothadeal
01-05-2009, 07:43 AM
Why on earth would anyone judge what Albert is or isn't after one season?
That's dumb, dumb, DUMB.

I thought we were talking about as of right now.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:45 AM
Well when comparing them CURRENTLY, that's all we have to go on, but don't let that stop you from pretending to act the convo starts and ends with you.

Well comparing them CURRENTLY is a FUCKING STUPID thing to do, but don't let that stop you from acting like a woman on the rag when it's pointed out to you.

BigChiefFan
01-05-2009, 07:46 AM
Well comparing them CURRENTLY is a ****ING STUPID thing to do, but don't let that stop you from acting like a woman on the rag when it's pointed out to you.Sure thing Brockie, I love to see you be right.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:47 AM
I thought we were talking about as of right now.

That's pretty pointless, if that's the case.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:48 AM
Sure thing Brockie, I love to see you be right.

No problem, lady.

unothadeal
01-05-2009, 07:48 AM
Well comparing them CURRENTLY is a ****ING STUPID thing to do, but don't let that stop you from acting like a woman on the rag when it's pointed out to you.

Okay. Let's all just talk about the potential of all our players and pretend Albert is the second coming of Willie Roaf, and Charles and Dejuan Morgan are going to the pro bowl.

Brock
01-05-2009, 07:53 AM
No, pointless is guessing how their careers are going to turn out.

Pointless describes 99 percent of the conversation around here, but that doesn't change the fact that it's incredibly dumb to decide how a draft went after one season.

BigChiefFan
01-05-2009, 08:33 AM
No problem, lady.YOU are the one that weeps out your vaginal cavity when someone has a differing view from yours. Sorry, that some think trading a young, proven, PB DE is a dumb ass move and you can't handle it-evidenced by your hurling of insults antytime somebody disagrees. Sucktit.

Demonpenz
01-05-2009, 08:38 AM
being an alcoholic is just a label for people that that have problems with alcohol to say "whew" glad I am not an alcoholic. The focus should be on the problems, not a trival label. If you get in trouble with the law, or can't stop drinking once you start, hurt family friends, have financial trouble, can't stop drinking, you are probably have early signs of an alcoholic, but in the end the label doesn't matter it is a problem no matter if what you call it.

Chiefnj2
01-05-2009, 08:49 AM
Did the Vikes get what they wanted out of Allen?

Yes. Without Allen they probably don't make the playoffs. Allen had a great year considering he played half of it with a separated shoulder and he had a very good playoff game.

BossChief
01-05-2009, 08:55 AM
The way I see it we got the better end. They got one great player and we got what looks like two starters. Jared and his 15 sacks didn't change anything. They are done already. Like alot of us know, you need a team not a superstar. Team defense and team offense are what's important.

I will say a solid QB is a must. We need a franchise QB bad or nothing else we do will matter at all.

How about a pass rusher for our record breaking defense, before we try to upgrade our capable and developing QB?ROFLROFLROFL

Demonpenz
01-05-2009, 09:00 AM
When judging how a draft went, can we hold off on Matt Ryan for a couple years, who knows how he will look after a couple years. Wouldn't surprise me if he dropped of and dorsey kicked ass the rest of the way out.

triple
01-05-2009, 09:07 AM
Well comparing them CURRENTLY is a ****ING STUPID thing to do, but don't let that stop you from acting like a woman on the rag when it's pointed out to you.

all you have to do is mention jared allen. it's like having a trained parakeet

Demonpenz
01-05-2009, 09:09 AM
How about a pass rusher for our record breaking defense, before we try to upgrade our capable and developing QB?ROFLROFLROFL

I have a fever for more smiley's

RINGLEADER
01-05-2009, 09:12 AM
If we get some production out of some of the other players the ratings could obviously change but if you just look at trading Jared Allen for Brandon Albert and if Albert keeps playing at the same level (and hopefully gets better) we would have traded an "A" DE for an "A-" or "B+" LT. Albert could become an "A" player as well. He certainly has the potential. If Charles or any of the other players come along we could end up getting the better end but only slightly.

Jared Allen is one of the best and I suspect will continue to be one of the best for the next 4-5 years if not longer.