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Tribal Warfare
01-07-2009, 12:02 AM
On last day with Chiefs, Carl Peterson is defiant and not ready to retire (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/968422.html)

Ask yourself this: What would you write? Tuesday, in an odd scene, Chiefs former President/CEO/General Manager Carl Peterson stood behind a wooden lectern in the new team practice facility and for 40 minutes or so relived his time with the Chiefs, ripped the media, was overcome by emotion when talking about his wife, Lori, and Chiefs founder Lamar Hunt, was noticeably cool when talking about Herm Edwards and thanked every single person in his Rolodex.

What would you write now? Everyone in town has read a million words about the man who ran the Chiefs for two decades. What’s left to write? Everyone has read about how he brought football back in Kansas City. When he arrived in December 1988, the Chiefs had made the playoffs once in 18 years, and there were so few people in the stands that NFL Films guru Steve Sabol used to send his cameramen out with the order to “shoot low” in order to not show the empty upper deck.

Peterson hired Marty Schottenheimer to coach, and he put on stark black-and-white television commercials showing the Chiefs as a hard-working bunch, and he drafted Derrick Thomas, and he opened up the parking lot for tailgaters, and he moved the Chiefs broadcasts to the rockin’ 101 the Fox to go after a younger demographic, and he put it into contracts that players had to be a part of the community. And the Chiefs went to the playoffs seven times in nine years, they played in front of some of the most raucous crowds in the NFL, they became the biggest thing in the heartland.

Well, that has been written many, many times, including a few weeks ago when we found out Peterson was leaving. So what now? Would you write about the last 11 years of the Peterson era? The Chiefs made the playoffs only twice in that span, lost both playoff games, were led by four different coaches and lost 12 more games than they won. Peterson had built a model of stability in the early 1990s, but in the 2000s there were bad drafts and dreadful free-agent signings and plainly bizarre decisions like hiring Gunther Cunningham to run the defense three years after he was fired as head coach and telling Tony Gonzalez they would try to trade him and then not trying very hard at all to trade him.

No, that has all been written, too. What would you write? What could you say about Carl Peterson — good, bad, diplomatic, insensitive — that has not been written a hundred times already? What could you say about Carl Peterson that would not infuriate or annoy a huge number of readers who made up their minds about the man a long time ago?

Few want to read anything cruel about him now — that would impolite. And yet few want to read anything nice about him either. Over the years I wrote a lot of nice things about Peterson, and every time people would write in enraged — they didn’t want to see him as a real person, refused to believe that he had good qualities. Then, over the last couple of years, I have written that Peterson needed to go, and many people were still enraged because I didn’t say it often enough or loud enough.

He had that ability to tick people off, and that was true even when the Chiefs were winning. Peterson has always been a hard man for fans to love. He never had much of a sense of humor or a light touch. I remember in 1997 asking readers to offer up a nickname for that great Chiefs defense, and I wanted Peterson to be one of the voters. He said, “I vote for Chiefs defense. I don’t like nicknames.”

He didn’t mean anything by it; that was Peterson — straitlaced, serious, organized, certain, wearing a dark leather jacket. And sensitive. That was his most enduring quality. On Tuesday, it made me sad to hear him tear into the media for the first 10 minutes of his farewell address — not because we in the media are undeserving but because it made Peterson look small. He never could let go of criticisms, though, or stories he felt were inaccurate or even truths that had come from unofficial sources. In that way, he went out as honestly as he could.

What would you write? Would you write how in the end Peterson seemed to abandon his hire and longtime friend, Chiefs coach Herm Edwards? It seemed pretty obvious. Peterson spent a couple of enthusiastic minutes praising his old sidekick Denny Thum and aggressively campaigning for Thum to be the next president of the Chiefs. But he only mentioned Edwards when talking about how much he appreciated all four of his coaches through the years. And afterward when asked directly about Edwards, he told the story of how when he arrived in Kansas City he had to fire coach Frank Gansz. It wasn’t too subtle.

Then he said: “I don’t make that decision, and frankly, that’s probably good.” That was even less subtle.

Would you write about how defiant he was on his last day with the Chiefs, how he made it clear that he is not retired, and he still feels like he has a lot to do in football? Many people around Kansas City never appreciated how much he wanted to win, how much those three big playoff losses — 1995 to Indianapolis, 1997 to Denver, 2003 to Indianapolis, all at home — crushed his spirits. He thought he had built Super Bowl teams; he could not imagine those teams losing at home in front of 80,000 raging Chiefs fans. When they did lose, he simply could not show his emotions, not publicly. He needed to present a face of calm. And because of that, people thought that winning was low on his list and he only wanted to fill the stadium and make the team a lot of money.

“Let me ask you something,” he asked me often. “How is someone supposed to fill the stadium without winning? Can you answer me that? Sure, I want the stadium filled. The only way to do that is to win games. Right? How can people think I don’t want to win?”

He agonized over these things. He highlighted what he considered errors in newspapers and sent long admonishing letters to the writers. He could get provoked by agents he felt were unprofessional and by players who felt like they got a raw deal. Also, before every home game, he walked through the parking lot, talked to fans, smelled the barbecue and felt very much at peace with the world.

What would you write? There’s a great moment near the beginning of “Citizen Kane,” when the producer of the newsreel on Kane’s life points at the screen and says: “All we saw up there was a big American.”

And somebody chimes in: “One of the biggest.”

Carl Peterson was one of the biggest. He made Kansas City a football town, and the town turned on him when the losing settled in. He made Chiefs football an event, and then fewer people came to games. He traded for Joe Montana and drafted Trezelle Jenkins. He signed Priest Holmes and Brian Waters and also signed Kendrell Bell and Vonnie Holliday. He kept Tony Gonzalez in Kansas City for more than a decade, but Jared Allen wanted out and so did many others.

As he said on Tuesday, he didn’t do these things alone. There were always people around to suggest, to coach, to argue, to support. But the Chiefs were his team, and like Harry Truman he kept a sign on his desk that said, “The buck stops here.” What would you write? I suspect two words would suffice after all these years. Good bye.

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 12:07 AM
Haha. Ending caught me by surprise.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 12:10 AM
Fuck off Carl... Go fuck up another fanbase... it will take years to correct the disfunctional shit you pulled here...

Fuck off and die!

TinyEvel
01-07-2009, 12:42 AM
stay down, bitch!

DanT
01-07-2009, 12:49 AM
Joe Posnanski is one of the classiest sportswriters that ever was.

smittysbar
01-07-2009, 12:55 AM
Haha....good bye

Ari Chi3fs
01-07-2009, 01:10 AM
Two words for Carl? Fuck Off.

booger
01-07-2009, 01:36 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/621/gallery/968196-a968187-t3.html

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 01:38 AM
Whoa. Interesting body language and position in the crowd.

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 01:41 AM
Jesus. You'd think he was royalty. ARE YOU ROYALTY, SON?

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/01/06/22/103-aCARL_ME_010609_DRE_0305f.slideshow_main.prod_affiliate.81.jpg

booger
01-07-2009, 01:41 AM
Herm was good for something afterall. Besides this years draft class(Kuharich and Chuck Cook deserve their share of credit) somebody needed to dethrone the King and it looks like it was Herm, while making a fool of himself with his game day blunders.

Yay!!! Everybody wins!!!

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 01:45 AM
Herm was good for something afterall. Besides this years draft class(Kuharich and Chuck Cook deserve their share of credit) somebody needed to dethrone the King and it looks like it was Herm, while making a fool of himself with his game day blunders.

Yay!!! Everybody wins!!!

I wouldn't thank Herm too hard. Carl was out of here after 2009 regardless.

booger
01-07-2009, 01:52 AM
I wouldn't thank Herm too hard. Carl was out of here after 2009 regardless.

Herm does have a big part in the cap room, youth on the roster, and the fact the king is gone NOW not a year from now and he himself is more than likely in his final days/weeks(fingers crossed) as HC.

It's all about the future and to hell with the past. It's and end of an era. Not like the end of the Marty era. Or Gun's or DV's. Herm is the only one who came into hell and will take the Devil with him when he leaves. Even the great DV couldn't do that.

Mecca
01-07-2009, 01:53 AM
That picture of Herm is hilarious he looks like he's thinking "this asshole is the reason I'm getting fired now"

booger
01-07-2009, 01:55 AM
That picture of Herm is hilarious he looks like he's thinking "this asshole is the reason I'm getting fired now"
Sounds like the feeling is mutual: from the article


And afterward when asked directly about Edwards, he told the story of how when he arrived in Kansas City he had to fire coach Frank Gansz. It wasnít too subtle.

Then he said: ďI donít make that decision, and frankly, thatís probably good.Ē That was even less subtle.

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 01:55 AM
Herm does have a big part in the cap room, youth on the roster, and the fact the king is gone NOW not a year from now and he himself is more than likely in his final days/weeks(fingers crossed) as HC.

It's all about the future and to hell with the past. It's and end of an era. Not like the end of the Marty era. Or Gun's or DV's. Herm is the only one who came into hell and will take the Devil with him when he leaves. Even the great DV couldn't do that.

I see what you're saying. But Carl was leaving regardless.

I'll give Herm credit for one thing definitely - the cap situation and roster situation look good. A different head coach and we might be sitting here debating how much John Welbourn and will cost to cut, and how we're going to find a replacement for Damon Huard.

booger
01-07-2009, 01:59 AM
I'm just glad they're probably both gone now and not next year.

The cap room, youth, the way the Hunts don't micro manage, etc, all make this a very attractive spot for a GM like Pioli. Or DeCosta and any others.

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 02:00 AM
I'm just glad they're probably both gone now and not next year.

The cap room, youth, the way the Hunts don't micro manage, etc, all make this a very attractive spot for a GM like Pioli. Or DeCosta and any others.

We're going to be a like freshly douched vagina...

booger
01-07-2009, 02:02 AM
We're going to be a like freshly douched vagina...

I wonder if Clark puts it that way in the interviews?

Mecca
01-07-2009, 02:03 AM
We're going to be a like freshly douched vagina...

So we're going to smell like vinegar?

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 02:04 AM
So we're going to smell like vinegar?

All that barbecue in the parking lot...you bet.

It's time to get FUCKED by a GM with a GREAT BIG SUPER-BOWL WINNING DICK!

blueballs
01-07-2009, 02:05 AM
Makes you wonder if Carl didn't retire
until he told Clark he wanted an extension
and Clark said -Oh hell no

bowener
01-07-2009, 02:40 AM
That picture of Herm is hilarious he looks like he's thinking "this asshole is the reason I'm getting fired now"

Funnier yet, that is what Carl thinks when he looks at Herm!

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 02:41 AM
Whitlock should have run in there and spiked a football in front of the podium.

philfree
01-07-2009, 06:25 AM
Whitlock should have run in there and spiked a football in front of the podium.

Why? Whitlock tried like hell for 10 years to get Carl fired and he couldn't do it. There were alot of KC media that had been trying to get rid of Carl for the same length of time. Articles were written and radio hacks ran their yaps from their pulpits but they couldn't get Carl fired. If it were a contest then Carl won. I'm not supporting Carl either way just making an observation.

PhilFree:arrow:

Fire Me Boy!
01-07-2009, 06:46 AM
All that barbecue in the parking lot...you bet.

It's time to get ****ED by a GM with a GREAT BIG SUPER-BOWL WINNING DICK!

Dude.

Carolina barbecue smells like vinegar.

KC barbecue smells like meat and smoke.

Trust the words from a man that lived in KC and cooks KC barbecue and judged in a few KC barbecue contests, who now lives in South Carolina... there's a HUGE difference.

WilliamTheIrish
01-07-2009, 07:04 AM
I have a few words for Carl:

Office. Grinch. Whoville. Clean out like.

Tuckdaddy
01-07-2009, 07:26 AM
Good ridence. This is what he should have been done 4 years ago. He should quit after DV failed.

jidar
01-07-2009, 07:45 AM
“Let me ask you something,” he asked me often. “How is someone supposed to fill the stadium without winning? Can you answer me that? Sure, I want the stadium filled. The only way to do that is to win games. Right? How can people think I don’t want to win?”

I've always wondered the same thing. Of course he wants to win, the only question in my mind was whether or not he could.

jidar
01-07-2009, 07:46 AM
All that barbecue in the parking lot...you bet.

It's time to get ****ED by a GM with a GREAT BIG SUPER-BOWL WINNING DICK!

Okay you have over embraced the metaphor and it's getting way too gay in here.

Otter
01-07-2009, 07:53 AM
What would you write?

"There's a lesson to be learned here. Know when to call it quits".

Now just go away.

Brock
01-07-2009, 07:55 AM
He thought he had built Super Bowl teams; he could not imagine those teams losing at home in front of 80,000 raging Chiefs fans.

Evidence that Carl is a goddamn moron.

Iowanian
01-07-2009, 07:57 AM
JP should have written only this.

'STFD STFU GTF OUT!"

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 07:57 AM
I suspect two words would suffice after all these years. Good bye.


Thats really all he needed to write. What a waste of time and paper.

Kerberos
01-07-2009, 08:02 AM
Evidence that Carl is a goddamn moron.

QFT :LOL: ROFL

Rep dude.

blaise
01-07-2009, 08:03 AM
Don't worry Carl. I'm sure you'll land another cush job that will give you a 20 year pass very soon.

Kerberos
01-07-2009, 08:19 AM
Don't worry Carl. I'm sure you'll land another cush job that will give you a 20 year pass very soon.


Not much of a JOB but a "Dirt Nap" could pull that off.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 08:21 AM
Evidence that Carl is a goddamn moron.


heh, good point.

I think Carl thought many times over the years that just having the "Arrowhead advantage" would be good enough to get the team over the top.

KC Jones
01-07-2009, 08:24 AM
heh, good point.

I think Carl thought many times over the years that just having the "Arrowhead advantage" would be good enough to get the team over the top.

So it was the fans fault! /Carl

FringeNC
01-07-2009, 08:37 AM
And afterward when asked directly about Edwards, he told the story of how when he arrived in Kansas City he had to fire coach Frank Gansz. It wasnít too subtle.

Then he said: ďI donít make that decision, and frankly, thatís probably good.Ē That was even less subtle.

I wonder at what point Carl wanted to throw Herm under the bus, but Herm yanked him under instead? Don't worry Carl, the bus is now bearing down on Herm and he's strapped down.

Count Alex's Wins
01-07-2009, 08:52 AM
Okay you have over embraced the metaphor and it's getting way too gay in here.

"This is paradise, I'm tellin' ya. This town like a great big pussy just waiting to get fucked."

http://s3.amazonaws.com/coolspotters2_development/photos/2100/medium_tony_montana2_profile.jpg

TEX
01-07-2009, 09:07 AM
Herm was good for something afterall. Besides this years draft class(Kuharich and Chuck Cook deserve their share of credit) somebody needed to dethrone the King and it looks like it was Herm, while making a fool of himself with his game day blunders.

Yay!!! Everybody wins!!!

Holds true only if Herm goes too...

Brock
01-07-2009, 09:09 AM
I half expected the Rufus Dawes stuff to be pulled as of today.

Crush
01-07-2009, 09:19 AM
Good riddance to bad rubbish.

Kerberos
01-07-2009, 09:26 AM
"This is paradise, I'm tellin' ya. This town like a great big pussy just waiting to get ****ed."

http://s3.amazonaws.com/coolspotters2_development/photos/2100/medium_tony_montana2_profile.jpg

"Say Hello to My Little Friend"

You could use that on a date in the future couldn't you?

:D

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 09:35 AM
Jesus. You'd think he was royalty. ARE YOU ROYALTY, SON?

http://media.kansascity.com/smedia/2009/01/06/22/103-aCARL_ME_010609_DRE_0305f.slideshow_main.prod_affiliate.81.jpg
Is that the Red Coat contingent on the left?

blaise
01-07-2009, 09:40 AM
In the words of Lord Humongous:
"There has been too much violence, too much pain. None here are without sin.
....
But I have an honorable compromise.
Just walk away.
Just walk away. I will give you safe passage in the Wasteland.
Just walk away and there will be an end to the horror."

Baby Lee
01-07-2009, 09:45 AM
Dude.

Carolina barbecue smells like vinegar.

KC barbecue smells like meat and smoke.

Trust the words from a man that lived in KC and cooks KC barbecue and judged in a few KC barbecue contests, who now lives in South Carolina... there's a HUGE difference.

Since there isn't 'St. Louis BBQ' [except WT Mauls and Pork Steak], we're kind of sitting at a nexus. Most BBQ places offer three varieties [almost all are dry smoked] on the table, Carolina mustard, vinegar and tobasco, KC sweet and smoky, and Texas tomato/black pepper.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 09:47 AM
Dude.

Carolina barbecue smells like vinegar.

KC barbecue smells like meat and smoke.

Trust the words from a man that lived in KC and cooks KC barbecue and judged in a few KC barbecue contests, who now lives in South Carolina... there's a HUGE difference.

And that wretched, wretched brine pulled-pork; are those people fucking retarded?

And don't forget that other standout; coleslaw with ketchup in it!:Lin:

Carolina "Barbecue"; converting meat-eaters to TOFU since 1864.

Baby Lee
01-07-2009, 09:49 AM
And that wretched, wretched brine pulled-pork; are those people ****ing retarded?

And don't forget that other standout; coleslaw with ketchup in it!:Lin:

Carolina "Barbecue"; converting meat-eaters to TOFU since 1864.

Not a fan of vinegar/peppers only, but I've been converted to mustard based. Bandanas has an excellent iteration that's made it's way across the state to KC.

blaise
01-07-2009, 09:50 AM
And that wretched, wretched brine pulled-pork; are those people ****ing retarded?

And don't forget that other standout; coleslaw with ketchup in it!:Lin:

Carolina "Barbecue"; converting meat-eaters to TOFU since 1864.

Dude, Carolina style BBQ is awesome. The Carolina style pulled pork sandwich at Oklahoma Joe's is great.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 09:50 AM
Since there isn't 'St. Louis BBQ' [except WT Mauls and Pork Steak], we're kind of sitting at a nexus. Most BBQ places offer three varieties [almost all are dry smoked] on the table, Carolina mustard, vinegar and tobasco, KC sweet and smoky, and Texas tomato/black pepper.

You'll find an identity one day, little feller. :Poke::toast:

Baby Lee
01-07-2009, 09:55 AM
You'll find an identity one day, little feller. :Poke::toast:

Hey, I grew up on KC BBQ, the only birthday decision was Sneads, Keegans or Smokestack.
But Bandanas has carved it's way into my heart, and judging on their growth, the hearts of a lot of others.
What I still miss in Big Derrty is a Stroudt's style Pan Fried chicken place [and KT Fryers in Lenexa for that matter]. They had one for a minute that was OK, but the beans were more a crisp French style and they didn't offer additional portions of the side dishes, and didn't last long either.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 10:07 AM
Dude, Carolina style BBQ is awesome. The Carolina style pulled pork sandwich at Oklahoma Joe's is great.


1) I'm not eating anywhere with the balls to put the words "Barbecue" and "Oklahoma" in the same title.

2) I'm not a fan of GOB(gristle on a bun).

3) "Sweet and Smokey" is NOT the signature sauce of Kansas City. It's offered, the local giants make their own versions of it, but the liberal dosing of molasses in the recepie is a Southern/Texas thing.

I could strangle Rich Davis for bottling molasses-paste and calling it Kansas City.

blaise
01-07-2009, 10:12 AM
To each his own. I've lived here, in Houston, and in Virginia (where they made a lot of Carolina style BBQ) and eaten a lot of BBQ in all three places. I like all three styles for different reasons, and I don't care what they name the place that makes it.

Fire Me Boy!
01-07-2009, 11:44 AM
To each his own. I've lived here, in Houston, and in Virginia (where they made a lot of Carolina style BBQ) and eaten a lot of BBQ in all three places. I like all three styles for different reasons, and I don't care what they name the place that makes it.

Gimme KC, Texas or Memphis BBQ. Keep the Georgia and Carolina shit the fuck away from me.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 11:48 AM
Gimme KC, Texas or Memphis BBQ. Keep the Georgia and Carolina shit the fuck away from me.

There's only ONE place to get BBQ in Texas; name it.

OnTheWarpath58
01-07-2009, 11:50 AM
There's only ONE place to get BBQ in Texas; name it.

For me, it's Sonny Bryan's in Dallas.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 11:51 AM
Gimme KC, Texas or Memphis BBQ. Keep the Georgia and Carolina shit the fuck away from me.

Ever had Rosedale sauce? Worst...sauce...ever.:cuss:

There's a place up on Main, fairly near the Peanut that makes great smoked meats. Their sauce is total "meh", but they've got their own unique take on the craft.

Fire Me Boy!
01-07-2009, 11:54 AM
There's only ONE place to get BBQ in Texas; name it.

It would be my house, if I had a house in Texas.

I don't know. When I lived in KC, I cooked about 75 percent of the BBQ I consumed. Now that I'm in SC, I cook 100 percent of the BBQ I consume.

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 11:55 AM
It would be my house, if I had a house in Texas.

I don't know. When I lived in KC, I cooked about 75 percent of the BBQ I consumed. Now that I'm in SC, I cook 100 percent of the BBQ I consume.

Is there really any other choice?

Rausch
01-07-2009, 11:56 AM
Peterson always wanted to win. I'll argue with anyone who says he didn't care about a championchip.

The problem was, like everyone he brought in to help him, no matter how many tools he was given he couldn't get it done...

Fire Me Boy!
01-07-2009, 12:01 PM
Is there really any other choice?

No.

On a semi-related note, I'm a member of the SC Barbecue Association and will be certified as a judge at the end of the month. They have some weird shit in BBQ competitions around here.

Whoever heard of shrimp and grits at a BBQ contest?

Mark M
01-07-2009, 12:16 PM
On Tuesday, it made me sad to hear him tear into the media for the first 10 minutes of his farewell address ó not because we in the media are undeserving but because it made Peterson look small.

It didn't make Peterson look small. It exposed Peterson as being small.

Dude was petty, vindictive and arrogant. And hopefully, we can stop discussing him soon and let him go wherever the hell it is he'll go.

MM
~~:cuss:

dtebbe
01-07-2009, 12:41 PM
On last day with Chiefs, Carl Peterson is defiant and not ready to retire (http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/968422.html)

What would you write? I suspect two words would suffice after all these years. Good bye.

I'd add 9 words:

Don't let the door hit you in the a$$

DT

Dylan
01-07-2009, 12:59 PM
The new owner of the Dolphins, Steve Ross hired Carl Peterson, whose primary responsibility is to run the business side of the operations. Ross agreed to buy 50% of the business last week. Po is a good man.

This is just my opinion...

Darth CarlSatan
01-07-2009, 01:09 PM
No.

On a semi-related note, I'm a member of the SC Barbecue Association and will be certified as a judge at the end of the month. They have some weird shit in BBQ competitions around here.

Whoever heard of shrimp and grits at a BBQ contest?

ROFL

My god; they ARE retarded!

Answer to Texas Quiz is as follows:


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/STUBBSCOLLAGE.png

HC_Chief
01-07-2009, 01:31 PM
I'd add 9 words:

Don't let the door hit you in the a$$

this

King_Chief_Fan
01-07-2009, 01:39 PM
It don't matter....Carl doesn't work here

Extra Point
01-07-2009, 08:20 PM
This is the second-best article JoPo has written; the first was the day after the SD loss, which, I believe, was the straw that broke Clark's back.