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View Full Version : Chiefs Carl's biggest blunders post-Montana era


FringeNC
01-07-2009, 11:00 AM
Certainly not a comprehensive list, but thoughts of the top of my head:

-Signing Bono after Montana retired. The 1995 team was a QB short. Bono was terrible.

-In 1997, We were a really good team. Denver was better. Don't fault Carl here. [Not going to get into the Gannon thing.]

-After Hackett left for USC, allowing Marty to replace him with Raye was a huge mistake. Also, I don't think Grbac had a QB coach, and regressed badly the following year. Say what you want about Hackett, but he was at least a top QB coach.

-Hiring Gunther in 1999 was a HUGE mistake.

-After the record setting offense DV brought here in 2002, unable to acquire good enough talent on D for 2003.

-Pressured Vermeil into hiring Gunther again. Terrible mistake. Also, he and Gunther thought they had talent on defense, and didn't upgrade at all going into 2004. 2004 D was a disaster.

-Hiring Herm Edwards in 2006 and giving up a draft choice to boot. Disaster.

-Going into 2007 season and 2008 season with Huard and Croyle as top two QBs.

Obviously the bad drafting and bad free agent signings are huge, but that's another thread.

I'd say the top two overall blunders were going with Bono, and completely wasting the 2002-2005 record setting offenses. Vermeil admitted he didn't bring anything to the table regarding defense, and evidently, neither does Carl. The other blunders didn't cost us as much because we weren't close.

keg in kc
01-07-2009, 11:01 AM
We could make a full sub-forum out of this topic.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 11:03 AM
4 draft picks that killed the DV era Chiefs:

Ryan Sims
Eddie Freeman
Junior Siavii
Kris Wilson

Demonpenz
01-07-2009, 11:04 AM
lets just be thankful he is gone and move on. Plenty of exciting stuff to talk about

DeezNutz
01-07-2009, 11:05 AM
lets just be thankful he is gone and move on. Plenty of exciting stuff to talk about

As soon as the new hire is made, this will immediately be the case. The last 11 or so painful years of Carl ineptness will be a distant memory.

milkman
01-07-2009, 11:09 AM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

Claynus
01-07-2009, 11:09 AM
Breathing.

Chief Faithful
01-07-2009, 11:10 AM
Relying on too many aging free agents while having so many failed drafts. Thus, the past failures of the scouting department I put as his biggest blunders.

Demonpenz
01-07-2009, 11:10 AM
no need to beat barbaro

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 11:12 AM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

heh, i know we have gone around about that one before.

Montana wasnt a mistake because he was the "final piece" of the puzzle.

Everyone knew that. It nearly worked.

FringeNC
01-07-2009, 11:15 AM
heh, i know we have gone around about that one before.

Montana wasnt a mistake because he was the "final piece" of the puzzle.

Everyone knew that. It nearly worked.

Montana retired a year too soon. Had he known how good the 1995 defense was going to be, he'd have come back.

cardken
01-07-2009, 11:16 AM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

Trading for Montana was the only corrsct thing he did besides drafting Okoye, and trading for Allen. The Allen/Montana moves got us the closest we ever got to a AFC title since 1970. WTF? I agree trying to catch lightning in a bottle with every S.F. Q.B was a dumb move.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 11:19 AM
Not leaving with Martha... Both blew ass after the 1994 season...

HC_Chief
01-07-2009, 11:20 AM
4 draft picks that killed the DV era Chiefs:

Ryan Sims
Eddie Freeman
Junior Siavii
Kris Wilson

I had a meltdown when we drafted Sims & Freeman. I went the (*$$#% off. Heh, I should find that thread.

Rooster
01-07-2009, 11:21 AM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

I hated it when KC brought in Montana. I was thinking WTF the whole time. He had hamstrings of glass and was one hit away from retirement, obviously. However, the Chiefs went to the AFC Championship game with him so I can't dog the decision too much.

Brock
01-07-2009, 11:22 AM
Hiring Vermeil to begin with.*

*Apologies to people who get hardons over record setting offenses that don't win anything.

Claynus
01-07-2009, 11:23 AM
Choosing to eat.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 11:24 AM
Hiring Vermeil to begin with.*

*Apologies to people who get hardons over record setting offenses that don't win anything.

I will raise you -

Hiring Herm to begin with *

*Apologies to people who get hardons for running the ball, playing defense that never will win anything...

Brock
01-07-2009, 11:24 AM
I will raise you -

Hiring Herm to begin with *

*Apologies to people who get hardons for running the ball, playing defense that never will win anything...

That point was already made. Fail.

FringeNC
01-07-2009, 11:26 AM
I will raise you -

Hiring Herm to begin with *

*Apologies to people who get hardons for running the ball, playing defense that never will win anything...

Hiring Herm was the beginning of the end for Carl. It's been three awful years with Herm, but at least Carl is paid the price for bringing in that clown.

DeezNutz
01-07-2009, 11:29 AM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

Montana was just successful enough to tantalize Carl into following the same course of action.

If Grbac had a man sack, we might have a entirely different view of this approach and the entire Carl tenure.

Mojo Jojo
01-07-2009, 11:31 AM
Trading for Montana was the only corrsct thing he did besides drafting Okoye, and trading for Allen. The Allen/Montana moves got us the closest we ever got to a AFC title since 1970. WTF? I agree trying to catch lightning in a bottle with every S.F. Q.B was a dumb move.

Okoye was already on the roster when Carl came to KC. He was drafted the same year as Paul Palmer. Allen was signed as a Free Agent not a trade. He kept signing S.F. QB's because Marty kept hiring "West Coast" offensive coordinators and wanted QB's with experience in that system.

Except for that your post is right on.

Claynus
01-07-2009, 11:33 AM
Choosing to speak.

milkman
01-07-2009, 11:40 AM
heh, i know we have gone around about that one before.

Montana wasnt a mistake because he was the "final piece" of the puzzle.

Everyone knew that. It nearly worked.

Trading for Montana was the only corrsct thing he did besides drafting Okoye, and trading for Allen. The Allen/Montana moves got us the closest we ever got to a AFC title since 1970. WTF? I agree trying to catch lightning in a bottle with every S.F. Q.B was a dumb move.

He was an aging, fragile QB, who, surprise! went down to injury in the biggest game the Chiefs had been involved in since the 1970 SB.

He only lasted two years, and couldn't stay healthy in those two years.

He was the final piece to the puzzle on a young ascending team?

He was a broken piece from another puzzle.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 12:40 PM
Certainly not a comprehensive list, but thoughts of the top of my head:

-Signing Bono after Montana retired. The 1995 team was a QB short. Bono was terrible.

-In 1997, We were a really good team. Denver was better. Don't fault Carl here. [Not going to get into the Gannon thing.]

-After Hackett left for USC, allowing Marty to replace him with Raye was a huge mistake. Also, I don't think Grbac had a QB coach, and regressed badly the following year. Say what you want about Hackett, but he was at least a top QB coach.

-Hiring Gunther in 1999 was a HUGE mistake.

-After the record setting offense DV brought here in 2002, unable to acquire good enough talent on D for 2003.

-Pressured Vermeil into hiring Gunther again. Terrible mistake. Also, he and Gunther thought they had talent on defense, and didn't upgrade at all going into 2004. 2004 D was a disaster.

-Hiring Herm Edwards in 2006 and giving up a draft choice to boot. Disaster.

-Going into 2007 season and 2008 season with Huard and Croyle as top two QBs.

Obviously the bad drafting and bad free agent signings are huge, but that's another thread.

I'd say the top two overall blunders were going with Bono, and completely wasting the 2002-2005 record setting offenses. Vermeil admitted he didn't bring anything to the table regarding defense, and evidently, neither does Carl. The other blunders didn't cost us as much because we weren't close.

You left out the Dan Williams and LJ big contracts.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 12:42 PM
Hiring Herm was the beginning of the end for Carl. It's been three awful years with Herm, but at least Carl is paid the price for bringing in that clown.

Even though the last 3 years are considered the Dark Ages of Modern Chiefs football... We are about to begin the dawn of a new era....

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 12:43 PM
You left out the Dan Williams and LJ big contracts.

Big Chester McDonalds...

BigChiefFan
01-07-2009, 12:44 PM
I would say his drafts have been pretty damn bad for some time now. Last year was decent,but besides that he, hasn't produced much at all in quite some time.

BigChiefFan
01-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Big Chester McDonalds...I'd take him over anybody we've had in recent memory, besides Dorsey(if he pans out). Many love to pile on McGlockton, but I'm of the opinion, that he was better than he gets credit for.

Mi_chief_fan
01-07-2009, 12:48 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character." Man, almost makes me as mad as the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh to draft Darko.

Also, first round busts such as Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris all set the franchise back.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 12:48 PM
I'd take him over anybody we've had in recent memory, besides Dorsey(if he pans out). Many love to pile on McGlockton, but I'm of the opinion, that he was better than he gets credit for.

True, but he was the big impact signing and didnt produce to the level of his contract... JMO....

wasi
01-07-2009, 12:49 PM
You left out the Dan Williams and LJ big contracts.

Deciding to make a go of it on the O-line in 2007 by signing only McIntosh and staying with Welbourne, Turley, Svitek, Sampson. At least he admitted to that mistake.

J Diddy
01-07-2009, 01:01 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character." Man, almost makes me as mad as the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh to draft Darko.

Also, first round busts such as Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris all set the franchise back.

snow and slymo were injuries, nothing you can do about that

EyePod
01-07-2009, 01:14 PM
lets just be thankful he is gone and move on. Plenty of exciting stuff to talk about

I know. I can't wait for the freaking draft. It will be a million times better than last years, and that was absolutely great!

Mi_chief_fan
01-07-2009, 01:15 PM
snow and slymo were injuries, nothing you can do about that

Yah, but Snow caused his own injury, much like Kellen Winslow II.

Baby Lee
01-07-2009, 01:21 PM
I will raise you -

Hiring Herm to begin with *

*Apologies to people who get hardons for running the ball, playing defense that never will win anything...

Especially when they, you know, SUCK at running the ball and playing defense.

Using Herm as an indictment of a defensive and running philosophy is akin to positing that the Ford Pinto is proof that the four wheeled automobile is a failure.

Otter
01-07-2009, 01:26 PM
Carl's biggest mistake:

Never developing a QB. Even when the QB situation came back to bite him in the ass over and over and he had Joe Montana for a protege' he never pulled the trigger.

You know what's even more funny? Trent Green and Elvis Grbac were drafted in 1993, Montana's first year who Carl later gave up draft picks for each.

Can we stop making threads about this douche and move on?

DJJasonp
01-07-2009, 01:28 PM
I think handing LJ (a malcontent, immature child) a monster contract after coming off of a 400+ carry season.......then, booting the NFL's leading sack artist off a defense that wasnt good to begin with.

Those are the acts of an arrogant man.....both were personal...and not in the best interest of the organization.

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 01:31 PM
Carl's biggest mistake:

Never developing a QB. Even when the QB situation came back to bite him in the ass over and over and he had Joe Montana for a protege' he never pulled the trigger.

You know what's even more funny? Trent Green and Elvis Grbac were drafted in 1993, Montana's first year who Carl later gave up draft picks for each.

Can we stop making threads about this douche and move on?

This....

Really never let the franchise develop into any type of contender...

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 01:31 PM
I think handing LJ (a malcontent, immature child) a monster contract after coming off of a 400+ carry season.......then, booting the NFL's leading sack artist off a defense that wasnt good to begin with.

Those are the acts of an arrogant man.....both were personal...and not in the best interest of the organization.

:clap:

RippedmyFlesh
01-07-2009, 01:57 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character." Man, almost makes me as mad as the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh to draft Darko.

Also, first round busts such as Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris all set the franchise back.

That was when the bottom fell out and he should have been gone.

Valiant
01-07-2009, 02:06 PM
Trading for Montana was the only corrsct thing he did besides drafting Okoye, and trading for Allen. The Allen/Montana moves got us the closest we ever got to a AFC title since 1970. WTF? I agree trying to catch lightning in a bottle with every S.F. Q.B was a dumb move.

I must be in the minority, but I hated having Allen here.. The guy was great in goalline and punching it in but a liability in between the 20's...

He never broke 900yards, 4.3 average was his best here for one year.. Never had a run over 40 yards..

I think people became enamored with his average play, because before it we flat out sucked at RB.. He had the TDs from always being in goalline situations.. I think it hurt our other RB's having him here..

Now granted Hill had some 'heart' issues on the field, but was still a better RB then Allen while here..

HemiEd
01-07-2009, 02:28 PM
As far as I'm concerned, trading for Montana was a blunder, and it acted as a domino effect leading to some of the later blunders (Bono, Grbac).

Yep, Carl's first real act of desperation, trying to make his self imposed time limit of the "5 year plan."

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 02:34 PM
43 posts and no mention of Lin Elli*tt yet?

Chief Faithful
01-07-2009, 02:35 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character."

That particular scouting effort and decision making process was on par with the Lions organization. The very strength quoted turned out to be Sims greatest weakness. Un-real how bad the scouting missed on that tub of lard.

I really hope the new GM is big on scouting and is a good talent evaluator.

HemiEd
01-07-2009, 02:39 PM
I think handing LJ (a malcontent, immature child) a monster contract after coming off of a 400+ carry season.......then, booting the NFL's leading sack artist off a defense that wasnt good to begin with.

Those are the acts of an arrogant man.....both were personal...and not in the best interest of the organization.

Several of these posts are upsetting, when the mrmories are refreshed, but this one just plain pisses me off to think about it.

HemiEd
01-07-2009, 02:39 PM
43 posts and no mention of Lin Elli*tt yet?

nuthooks!

DaWolf
01-07-2009, 02:46 PM
How about overpaying Carlton Gray to be the replacement for Dale Carter?

DaWolf
01-07-2009, 02:53 PM
How about trading our 2nd and 6th rounders away in '95 for Victor Bailey and a 4th rounder?

Ari Chi3fs
01-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Getting rid of Nick Lowery and hiring Lin Douchebag... and Montana retiring after 94... really sucked. We would have won it all in 95, if not for Bono and Lin the kicker.

Brock
01-07-2009, 02:57 PM
How about trading our 2nd and 6th rounders away in '95 for Victor Bailey and a 4th rounder?

He recorded 1 catch for the Chiefs. 1 catch.

Chief Faithful
01-07-2009, 03:01 PM
From 1998 to 2004 the Chiefs picked 19 first day of the draft players (rounds 1-3). Out of that came 4 average NFL starters (21% success rate). That is Carl's biggest blunder and the reason the team has won only 6 of the last 32 games.

From 2005 to 2008 the Chiefs have picked 14 first day of the draft players and 11 are average to very good NFL starters (78%+ success rate). Of the remaining 3 they are still in the NFL and still have a good chance of being NFL starters (Cottam, Morgan, Croyle). This tells me Carl did correct the scouting problems, but it took him too long and he missed on way too many free agents so I no longer trust him as a talent evaluator.

DaWolf
01-07-2009, 03:02 PM
One of his biggest blunders, and he admits this, is sitting pat after the 1995 season and expecting the team to repeat the performance in 1996. Obviously that didn't happen.

It also coincided with Mark Collins bitterly leaving and complaining that Carl promised to take care of him contractually after 1995 but them breaking that promise. It was the beginning of a trend that we saw for the next 13 or so years with Carl and players...

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 03:07 PM
Eric Warfield over Donnie Edwards...

cardken
01-07-2009, 03:23 PM
I must be in the minority, but I hated having Allen here.. The guy was great in goalline and punching it in but a liability in between the 20's...

He never broke 900yards, 4.3 average was his best here for one year.. Never had a run over 40 yards..

I think people became enamored with his average play, because before it we flat out sucked at RB.. He had the TDs from always being in goalline situations.. I think it hurt our other RB's having him here..

Now granted Hill had some 'heart' issues on the field, but was still a better RB then Allen while here..

Donnell Bennett, Barry Word, Greg(real deal) Hill, Todd Mc Nair, Harvey Williams, Le Roy Thompson, Kimble Anders(FB)? I really don't think
Allen was holding anybody back, in those years. He was older when he got here but punched alot of TD's in that time, goalline or elsewhere.

KCChiefsFan88
01-07-2009, 03:32 PM
One of his biggest blunders, and he admits this, is sitting pat after the 1995 season and expecting the team to repeat the performance in 1996. Obviously that didn't happen.

Dictator Carl did the same thing following the Chiefs 2003 season... doing essentially nothing to fix a defense that failed to force a single punt against the Colts in that fateful playoff game.

Adept Havelock
01-07-2009, 03:34 PM
Carlton Gray and Dan Williams come to mind.

Crush
01-07-2009, 03:35 PM
1) Grbac over Gannon
2) Keeping Greg Robinson after the disastrous 2002 season
3) Hiring Herm Edwards (extra fail for wasting a 4th round draft pick for him)
4) LJ's big contract
5) Dan Williams's big contract
6) Hiring Gunther as HC
7) Signing Steve Bono
8) The Justin Medlock fiasco

Mi_chief_fan
01-07-2009, 04:10 PM
How about trading our 2nd and 6th rounders away in '95 for Victor Bailey and a 4th rounder?

Excellent memory, Armen. Remember who Philly got in Round 2? Bobby Taylor, who starred at CB for quite a while before injuries slowed him, but was one of the better CBs in the league for a short while.

I might mention, only drafting 2 o-lineman in last year' draft, when they needed a minimum of 3.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:11 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character." Man, almost makes me as mad as the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh to draft Darko.

Also, first round busts such as Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris all set the franchise back.

Percy Snow and Sly cannot be categorized with Jenkins. Their careers succumbed to injury. I think they were both talented.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:13 PM
I know. I can't wait for the freaking draft. It will be a million times better than last years, and that was absolutely great!

We can't say that yet, can we.

BWillie
01-07-2009, 04:14 PM
1) Grbac over Gannon
2) Keeping Greg Robinson after the disastrous 2002 season
3) Hiring Herm Edwards (extra fail for wasting a 4th round draft pick for him)
4) LJ's big contract
5) Dan Williams's big contract
6) Hiring Gunther as HC
7) Signing Steve Bono
8) The Justin Medlock fiasco

In all-fairness I think the Elvis Grbac debate is overrated. It's not like Elvis played really bad the last two years he was in KC. He actually probably played better than anybody else would have imagined.

Mi_chief_fan
01-07-2009, 04:16 PM
Percy Snow and Sly cannot be categorized with Jenkins. Their careers succumbed to injury. I think they were both talented.

Yeah, I know, but Snow's was self-inflicted, so I count him. I'll give Sly a pass. Wonder what both of them are doing now?

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:20 PM
Carl's biggest mistake:

Never developing a QB. Even when the QB situation came back to bite him in the ass over and over and he had Joe Montana for a protege' he never pulled the trigger.

A lot of that blame rests on Marty. He stubbornly nailed 3 or 4 2nd round Qbs to the bench for years and never let them see the field. Even in meaningless games. Whatever skills they had we never saw and rusted away on the bench. I still believe that among Blundin and the others we drafted in the 90s someone like Belichik would have created at least one viable starting QB.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:27 PM
I think handing LJ (a malcontent, immature child) a monster contract after coming off of a 400+ carry season.......

Up to that point Carl was dangling on a thread in my book. That deal brought him down in a violent crash. it was purely his ego about his handpicked player that he had picked against DV's wishes. That was the biggest disservice to the Chiefs that I have ever witnessed. Especially with all the STRONG rumors about a few teams wanting to pay us rather highly to get our headache off our hand.
:cuss:

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:29 PM
How about trading our 2nd and 6th rounders away in '95 for Victor Bailey and a 4th rounder?

He did that? Yikes.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 04:32 PM
8) The Justin Medlock fiasco

Thanks for renewing my pain about that.

88TG88
01-07-2009, 04:32 PM
Passing on Albert Haynesworth AND John Hederson for Ryan SIms, citing Sims' "character." Man, almost makes me as mad as the Pistons passing up Carmelo Anthony, Dwayne Wade & Chris Bosh to draft Darko.

Also, first round busts such as Percy Snow, Trezelle Jenkins, Sylvester Morris all set the franchise back.

That did it for me.

ChiefsCountry
01-07-2009, 04:38 PM
Taking the wrong safeties in 1996 draft (Woods and Tongue) instead of (Milloy and Dawkins)

WilliamTheIrish
01-07-2009, 05:06 PM
Letting Keith Traylor leave after the 96 season because he wouldn't pay him. Traylor beat Grunhard like a drum all day in the 97/98 playoff game. Fuck you, Carl.

Extra Point
01-07-2009, 05:15 PM
Gannon, T-Rich, Tait, Traylor. Leaking the promise to Saunders and yanking the rug.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 05:22 PM
Letting Keith Traylor leave after the 96 season because he wouldn't pay him. Traylor beat Grunhard like a drum all day in the 97/98 playoff game. **** you, Carl.

YEP.

whoman69
01-07-2009, 05:40 PM
I think Carl's biggest blunder was pulling out a late round plum like Scott Fujita and then trying to pull the same magic in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. His second round picks were horrible every year as he drafted with too much emphasis on potential and not enough on talent.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 05:42 PM
I think Carl's biggest blunder was pulling out a late round plum like Scott Fujita and then trying to pull the same magic in the 2nd and 3rd rounds. His second round picks were horrible every year as he drafted with too much emphasis on potential and not enough on talent.

The Chiefs have always been able to draft decently in the later rounds.

It could be argued they have got more production in the mid to late rounds than in the first two rounds during the Carl era.

DJJasonp
01-07-2009, 05:47 PM
Eric Warfield over Donnie Edwards...

ouch.:cuss:

Mi_chief_fan
01-07-2009, 05:53 PM
Letting Joe Horn go because $10 million was "too expensive." Never really did replace him, and he became a star in N.O.

Valiant
01-07-2009, 06:06 PM
Donnell Bennett, Barry Word, Greg(real deal) Hill, Todd Mc Nair, Harvey Williams, Le Roy Thompson, Kimble Anders(FB)? I really don't think
Allen was holding anybody back, in those years. He was older when he got here but punched alot of TD's in that time, goalline or elsewhere.

Goalline was it.. Everybody loves to remember Allen as a better back then he was here.. If he was so great as everybody remembered he would have had more yards..

Valiant
01-07-2009, 06:09 PM
Letting Joe Horn go because $10 million was "too expensive." Never really did replace him, and he became a star in N.O.

Honestly If Horn stayed I don't think he would have blossomed here.. It's all about opportunity and scheme for a lot of players.. He would have never been targeted that much here with our philosophy at the time..

Sully
01-07-2009, 06:13 PM
Brett Perriman.

WilliamTheIrish
01-07-2009, 06:14 PM
Honestly If Horn stayed I don't think he would have blossomed here.. It's all about opportunity and scheme for a lot of players.. He would have never been targeted that much here with our philosophy at the time..

Disagree. In 98 Marty went with the "We need to get offense in chunks" philosophy, remember?

Horn played one play in the 97/98 playoff game and on a straight GO pattern, he outran everybody and hauled in a 50 yard pass. He went to the bench and didn't play again.
You don't let big play receivers rot on you bench. Right under your nose.

Could you imagine if we had used Horn all season instead *sigh* Lake Dawson along with Rison? That's potent combo.

DJJasonp
01-07-2009, 06:23 PM
Goalline was it.. Everybody loves to remember Allen as a better back then he was here.. If he was so great as everybody remembered he would have had more yards..

He did have over 1,000 total yds in 4 of the 5 seasons in KC. 3 of 5, he averaged over 4 yds per carry.

He wasnt awesome...but when we needed a play, 1st down, or goal line TD...he was the man. He was really used perfectly by splitting time with Hill, Anders, and Bennett...so he was fresh towards the end of the season.

chiefzilla1501
01-07-2009, 06:37 PM
Honestly, I think Carl Peterson started out as a pretty decent GM. During the Marty years, I think the right players were on the field, but they made stupid mistakes at the most inopportune times and Marty always found a way to lose.

Easily Peterson's worst mistake was hiring his buddy Lynn Stiles to run the team's personnel from 2001-2005.
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199882&page=6
Look at who this team drafted during Stiles' wonderful era.

My apologies if any of you just barfed all over yourself.

nychief
01-07-2009, 06:41 PM
Bam Morris

ChiefsCountry
01-07-2009, 06:53 PM
The Chiefs have always been able to draft decently in the later rounds.

It could be argued they have got more production in the mid to late rounds than in the first two rounds during the Carl era.

Chiefs also did well in plucking players from CFL, Arena Football and using NFL Europe well.

Skip Towne
01-07-2009, 08:02 PM
Donnell Bennett, Barry Word, Greg(real deal) Hill, Todd Mc Nair, Harvey Williams, Le Roy Thompson, Kimble Anders(FB)? I really don't think
Allen was holding anybody back, in those years. He was older when he got here but punched alot of TD's in that time, goalline or elsewhere.

Short yardage backs get a break on their ypc. Go look at John Riggins career ypc. "The Bus" is another one. I was very happy to have Marcus here.

Valiant
01-07-2009, 08:04 PM
Disagree. In 98 Marty went with the "We need to get offense in chunks" philosophy, remember?

Horn played one play in the 97/98 playoff game and on a straight GO pattern, he outran everybody and hauled in a 50 yard pass. He went to the bench and didn't play again.
You don't let big play receivers rot on you bench. Right under your nose.

Could you imagine if we had used Horn all season instead *sigh* Lake Dawson along with Rison? That's potent combo.


Actually that just furthers my point of him not blossoming here..

TEX
01-07-2009, 09:35 PM
I personally liked the mid '90's (can't remember the exact year amymore) draft day trade with the Jets for WR Victor Baily. I was shaking my head at the time and still am.:shake:

Frankie
01-07-2009, 09:43 PM
Letting Joe Horn go because $10 million was "too expensive." Never really did replace him, and he became a star in N.O.

YES YES YES, I forgot about that. I really liked Horn and saw a good future in him. I was royally pissed when he was cut.

Deberg_1990
01-07-2009, 09:44 PM
Ill never forgive Carl for drafting Blackledge...

Frankie
01-07-2009, 09:46 PM
Goalline was it.. Everybody loves to remember Allen as a better back then he was here.. If he was so great as everybody remembered he would have had more yards..

Allen performed his role perfectly. He was in the late stages of his career and could no longer be an every-play back. Also he provided a great role model with his professionalism.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 09:47 PM
Honestly If Horn stayed I don't think he would have blossomed here.. It's all about opportunity and scheme for a lot of players.. He would have never been targeted that much here with our philosophy at the time..

That's the only way I comforted myself for his loss. That and the fact that we would perhaps never have gotten Roaf.

ChiefsCountry
01-07-2009, 09:48 PM
I personally liked the mid '90's (can't remember the exact year amymore) draft day trade with the Jets for WR Victor Baily. I was shaking my head at the time and still am.:shake:

Eagles not Jets.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 09:51 PM
Horn played one play in the 97/98 playoff game and on a straight GO pattern, he outran everybody and hauled in a 50 yard pass. He went to the bench and didn't play again.
You don't let big play receivers rot on you bench. Right under your nose.

That's why I never want Marty anywhere close to our sideline again. I have already posted that I believe one of our Qb draftees in the 90s would have developed if Marty would not have fused their asses to the bench. He was funny that way.

Frankie
01-07-2009, 09:53 PM
Ill never forgive Carl for drafting Blackledge...

Go to bed!

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 10:46 PM
Disagree. In 98 Marty went with the "We need to get offense in chunks" philosophy, remember?

Horn played one play in the 97/98 playoff game and on a straight GO pattern, he outran everybody and hauled in a 50 yard pass. He went to the bench and didn't play again.
You don't let big play receivers rot on you bench. Right under your nose.

Could you imagine if we had used Horn all season instead *sigh* Lake Dawson along with Rison? That's potent combo.

Agree William, This is why I cant stand Marty... Greg Hill would come out, bust off one or two big runs, then finds himself on the bench the rest of the game...

Marty is a fucking joke... His 5-13 playoff record speaks for itself...

Reerun_KC
01-07-2009, 10:47 PM
Ill never forgive Carl for drafting Blackledge...

I will never forgive you for never forgiving Carl!

Deberg_1990
01-08-2009, 07:28 AM
That's why I never want Marty anywhere close to our sideline again. I have already posted that I believe one of our Qb draftees in the 90s would have developed if Marty would not have fused their asses to the bench. He was funny that way.


and yet Marty developed Kosar, Brees and Rivers..

Strange he could never do it in KC? Or was that Carl??