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View Full Version : Chiefs Patriots want high 1st rounder for Cassel!!


Pooch
01-09-2009, 07:53 PM
I say no thanks!! On ESPN but I don't know how it post a link. Also on fanball.com.

blueballs
01-09-2009, 08:01 PM
Ricky Williams
is a high first rounder
score Miami

Nightfyre
01-09-2009, 08:02 PM
Pfft. He comes from a spread offense. What chance of success could he have?

Iowanian
01-09-2009, 08:03 PM
They didn't make the playoffs this year with him under center....

pr_capone
01-09-2009, 08:06 PM
They didn't make the playoffs this year with him under center....

11-5 and no playoffs is a travesty.

blueballs
01-09-2009, 08:06 PM
get LJ some crack

Chief Roundup
01-09-2009, 08:13 PM
He is going to get the Franchise tag so I think it is a little more than just a 1st round pick

Mr. Flopnuts
01-09-2009, 08:16 PM
They went 11-5. They're 5 games worse than they are with Tom Terrific under center. And they want what for him?

It's nice they're franchising him and paying him all those dollars next year, but if I was an underpaid overachiever on that team, I think I may be a little butthurt right now.

Basileus777
01-09-2009, 08:21 PM
If Matt Schaub is worth two 2nds and a swap of firsts, then Cassel is worth a first.

Iowanian
01-09-2009, 08:21 PM
11-5 and no playoffs is a travesty.

A team with a terrible record and another in their division made it out....

The Pats are on the same golf shedule as the Chiefs this weekend.
I'd say going from Superbowl expectations to golfing on wildcard weekend IS a disappointment.

ArrowheadHawk
01-09-2009, 09:05 PM
Patriots are high. He isn't worth that much.

The Bad Guy
01-09-2009, 09:10 PM
There is no way I'd even give a 2nd for Cassel.

RedThat
01-09-2009, 09:11 PM
Yeah good luck.

RedThat
01-09-2009, 09:12 PM
Wait, a high 1st rounder? could this have to do with Pioli coming to KC? hmmmmm

whoman69
01-09-2009, 09:21 PM
If Matt Schaub is worth two 2nds and a swap of firsts, then Cassel is worth a first.

But he's not really.

whoman69
01-09-2009, 09:23 PM
I want a date with Jessica Alba, but that ain't happening either. With the reports on Tom Terrific's rehab, the Patriots are going to want to hold onto Cassel.

Amnorix
01-09-2009, 10:00 PM
There is no way I'd even give a 2nd for Cassel.

I agree, he's probably not worth a high first. But not even a 2nd? For a guy who clearly seems to have an NFL arm and has had top coaching for 4 years and is still 27 or whatever years old?

You're either high, or you greatly overvalue what a 2nd round pick is worth.

Amnorix
01-09-2009, 10:02 PM
Nobody is going to give up the 2 1sts it would take to sign Cassell away from teh Pats. That's obvious.

I think the Pats are trying to establish what they think he's worth, so that the negotiations have a starting point. They're telling teams that if they're t hinking 3rd or low 2nd, to not waste their time. I think they're thinking either low 1st or high 2nd (maybe high 2nd plus another pick) to get it done.

I doubt they expect anyone to call offering the #8 pick or anything...

morphius
01-09-2009, 10:12 PM
good luck with that guys, but no thank you.

Mr. Laz
01-09-2009, 10:39 PM
no thanks

Valiant
01-09-2009, 10:46 PM
I agree, he's probably not worth a high first. But not even a 2nd? For a guy who clearly seems to have an NFL arm and has had top coaching for 4 years and is still 27 or whatever years old?

You're either high, or you greatly overvalue what a 2nd round pick is worth.

Or you are a complete homer of godlike proportions..

He will not have the talent around him elsewhere..
He was a byproduct of a system and players around him.. Kind of like Pittsburgh defenders when they leave..

That team without Brady/Cassel was worth ten victories and in the playoffs 90% of the time..

But keep acting like he is worth more, hopefully he signs that contract as fast as possible and sticks your team with the contract..

Valiant
01-09-2009, 10:47 PM
Nobody is going to give up the 2 1sts it would take to sign Cassell away from teh Pats. That's obvious.

I think the Pats are trying to establish what they think he's worth, so that the negotiations have a starting point. They're telling teams that if they're t hinking 3rd or low 2nd, to not waste their time. I think they're thinking either low 1st or high 2nd (maybe high 2nd plus another pick) to get it done.

I doubt they expect anyone to call offering the #8 pick or anything...

I will give your front office credit for this though.. At least they try for unreasonably demands first from others.. The Chiefs would have started with a 3rd or 4th round pick and went down from there..

Amnorix
01-09-2009, 10:50 PM
Or you are a complete homer of godlike proportions..

He will not have the talent around him elsewhere..
He was a byproduct of a system and players around him.. Kind of like Pittsburgh defenders when they leave..

Wow, funny, that's exactly what people said about Brady the first few years.

That team without Brady/Cassel was worth ten victories and in the playoffs 90% of the time..

But keep acting like he is worth more, hopefully he signs that contract as fast as possible and sticks your team with the contract..

:shrug: That's fine too. It ain't my money, and we're WAAAY under the cap.

You didn't see our crap defense play all year, or all the other key players we had injured. Cassell sucked early in the year, but by the end of the year he was playing extremely well. Only pass he couldn't hit was the deep ball to Moss. Other than that, he has an NFL arm, good size/strength, good feel for the pass rush, and good mobility. I do honestly think he's going to be a very solid NFL starter.

Over-Head
01-09-2009, 10:58 PM
Too bad we already spent 60 MILLION in that area :banghead:

The Bad Guy
01-09-2009, 10:59 PM
I agree, he's probably not worth a high first. But not even a 2nd? For a guy who clearly seems to have an NFL arm and has had top coaching for 4 years and is still 27 or whatever years old?

You're either high, or you greatly overvalue what a 2nd round pick is worth.

Wherever he goes, he will not have the luxury of Randy Moss or Wes Welker making life easier on him.

The guy screams system QB.

Cornstock
01-09-2009, 11:01 PM
Conspiracy:
The Patriots pay Pioli to get hired by the Chiefs and trade our first to them for Cassel.

Demonpenz
01-09-2009, 11:01 PM
is he a good player? Or a derrick alexander.

HemiEd
01-09-2009, 11:27 PM
11-5 and no playoffs is a travesty.

I agree, that is a record, isn't it? The Chiefs have missed it twice with 10-6, pissed me off both times, can't imagine what 11-5 would be like.

Amnorix
01-09-2009, 11:37 PM
I agree, that is a record, isn't it? The Chiefs have missed it twice with 10-6, pissed me off both times, can't imagine what 11-5 would be like.

Happened once before. Cleveland Browns in something like 1990.

blueballs
01-09-2009, 11:40 PM
You see this is what's slowing down the Pioli hire
he's trying to work out a deal with him as Pat's GM
and as the Chiefs GM -when ****ing yourself take it slow

pr_capone
01-09-2009, 11:40 PM
I agree, that is a record, isn't it? The Chiefs have missed it twice with 10-6, pissed me off both times, can't imagine what 11-5 would be like.

I wish that the rules would change to where a Divisional Championship did not guarantee a playoff spot.

Let the wins and losses decide who goes to the playoffs.

Cornstock
01-09-2009, 11:43 PM
I wish that the rules would change to where a Divisional Championship did not guarantee a playoff spot.

Let the wins and losses decide who goes to the playoffs.

Or maybe 3 wildcards and only the best record in the conference gets a bye first round

blueballs
01-09-2009, 11:45 PM
You see this is what's slowing down the Pioli hire
he's trying to work out a deal with him as Pat's GM
and as the Chiefs GM -when ****ing yourself take it slow

It's going to be a package deal like DV and Green
a second for Cassel and a first for tampering

Ebolapox
01-10-2009, 12:39 AM
Wait, a high 1st rounder? could this have to do with Pioli coming to KC? hmmmmm

YOU SHUT YOUR GODDAMNED MONKEY FUCKING MOUTH!

Ebolapox
01-10-2009, 12:41 AM
Wow, funny, that's exactly what people said about Brady the first few years.



:shrug: That's fine too. It ain't my money, and we're WAAAY under the cap.

You didn't see our crap defense play all year, or all the other key players we had injured. Cassell sucked early in the year, but by the end of the year he was playing extremely well. Only pass he couldn't hit was the deep ball to Moss. Other than that, he has an NFL arm, good size/strength, good feel for the pass rush, and good mobility. I do honestly think he's going to be a very solid NFL starter.

you don't give up a high second or low first for a solid nfl starter





unless it's trent green in 2001.

HemiEd
01-10-2009, 12:48 AM
Happened once before. Cleveland Browns in something like 1990.

Damn, that would suck. My codolences, even if you guys are spoiled. :D

Ebolapox
01-10-2009, 12:50 AM
Damn, that would suck. My codolences, even if you guys are spoiled. :D

yep. they have no fucking room to speak after winning a super bowl in the last 38 years.

:shake:

HemiEd
01-10-2009, 12:50 AM
I wish that the rules would change to where a Divisional Championship did not guarantee a playoff spot.

Let the wins and losses decide who goes to the playoffs.

Yeah, an 8-8 team getting a home game, and an 11-5 team out, should not happen. Not sure what the best remedy would be though.

HemiEd
01-10-2009, 12:54 AM
yep. they have no ****ing room to speak after winning a super bowl in the last 38 years.

:shake:

Or 3 SB wins, a perfect season with another appearance, since my youngest grandson was born.

The last time the Chiefs won, I didn't even know my wife yet.

Mojo Rising
01-10-2009, 01:57 AM
If the Chiefs do hire Pioli you would think he would be the best person to determine Cassel's worth. If in the meetings the Pats were always worried about what would happen if Brady went down then Pioli would have been in those meetings.

Before Moss and Welker were there Pioli was there with Cassell as the back-up so he knows the comfort level.

Because they are with the same squad now doesn't mean their married. One report has the Iowa Coach joining Pioli, not Josh McDaniel, the Patriot assist. coach hot prospect now. What does Pioli know?

RedNeckRaider
01-10-2009, 02:26 AM
I agree, that is a record, isn't it? The Chiefs have missed it twice with 10-6, pissed me off both times, can't imagine what 11-5 would be like.

Years ago Denver stayed at home one year at 11-5 before the wild card I think it was 1988 not sure too lazy to look it up. The Browns went that year at 8-8

Paniero
01-10-2009, 03:32 AM
Oh noes.

Some savvy football folks are fishing for idiots, and the Chiefs are always drawn in by the shiny idiot lure.

HypnotizedMonkey
01-10-2009, 03:35 AM
Cassel isn't worth a half eaten cheese sandwich... IMO. That looser didn't even make the playoffs!

BigRichard
01-10-2009, 05:10 AM
I wish that the rules would change to where a Divisional Championship did not guarantee a playoff spot.

Let the wins and losses decide who goes to the playoffs.

But why have divisions then?

Ultra Peanut
01-10-2009, 07:51 AM
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MahiMike
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
How about LJ and NEXT year's 1st rounder?

FringeNC
01-10-2009, 09:04 AM
Some think Cassel is worth a LOT:

"It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel," ESPN analyst and former Tennessee Titans general manager Floyd Reese said. "Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

Michael Lombardi, who last week was the first to report the Patriots would put the franchise tag on Cassel, said the starting price should be the draft choices the San Diego Chargers received for Eli Manning.

At the 2004 draft, the New York Giants acquired Manning's rights for Philip Rivers' rights along with a third-round pick that year and their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005.

"Whatever the Giants gave up for Eli has to be the market," Lombardi said. "It's got to be a first-rounder, and not the 22nd or 24th pick in the draft. It has to be a substantial one and one that keeps on giving."

Lombardi was an executive with the Cleveland Browns when Bill Belichick was the coach and has worked with the San Francisco 49ers and Oakland Raiders among other clubs.

Lombardi couldn't come up with any corollary trade examples for a quarterback like Cassel.

"All trades have a predetermined value based on past trades," Lombardi said. "But to trade a quarterback as young as Cassel, after watching him do what he did, it doesn't happen."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-4-738/Cassel-trade-talk-opens-with-high-1st-rounder.html

milkman
01-10-2009, 09:26 AM
Some think Cassel is worth a LOT:



http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-4-738/Cassel-trade-talk-opens-with-high-1st-rounder.html

All I can say is, I'm glad neither are the Chiefs GM.

I wouldn't give a first for Cassell.

MahiMike
01-10-2009, 09:32 AM
All I can say is, I'm glad neither are the Chiefs GM.

I wouldn't give a first for Cassell.

See I don't get this. All the talk about what to do w/our #3 pick and most folks here want to bet the farm on an unproven kid straight out of college. Here we have a proven commodity that has done quite well already in the NFL and for some reason he's not worth a 1st-rounder?

milkman
01-10-2009, 09:33 AM
See I don't get this. All the talk about what to do w/our #3 pick and most folks here want to bet the farm on an unproven kid straight out of college. Here we have a proven commodity that has done quite well already in the NFL and for some reason he's not worth a 1st-rounder?

Cassell is a system QB with a weak arm.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:43 AM
I wish that the rules would change to where a Divisional Championship did not guarantee a playoff spot.

Let the wins and losses decide who goes to the playoffs.

But if you do that, then sorting the teams into divisions barely matters anymore.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:46 AM
you don't give up a high second or low first for a solid nfl starter

unless it's trent green in 2001.

First, it's a QB. Second, he's still young. Third, I think you are just wrong. It depends on the player, his talent, his ceiling, his age and his history of problems and/or injuries.

Honestly, nobody is quite sure what his ceiling is. If he went to a team with a solid offensive cast around him, there's no reason that I could see that he couldn't be above average, and possibly a pro bowler. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but there's no reason he couldn't be a Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers or whatever. Very solid / above average, with a pro bowl or two.

i'm not predicting it, but it's not inconceivable or anything.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:49 AM
Damn, that would suck. My codolences, even if you guys are spoiled. :D

Honestly, it is annoying, BUT

1. we had a pretty soft schedule.

2. we LOST to the Chargers, Steelers, Colts and Dolphins (1 out of 2). We didn't play the Ravens or Titans. How much are we entitled to complain?

IMHO the whole AFC East had overinflated records. Next year I see Miami going to back under double digit wins, and the Jets too unless their coach really steps it up, or they get a very, very good QB. Pats with Brady and a healthy defense should be in the +/-13 wins category and win the AFC East.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:50 AM
Because they are with the same squad now doesn't mean their married. One report has the Iowa Coach joining Pioli, not Josh McDaniel, the Patriot assist. coach hot prospect now. What does Pioli know?

1. Ferentz is also a Belichick disciple.

2. BB and SP may be negotiating Pioli's exit, and what he can/can't take with him. BB reached a similar agreement with Romeo Crennell (don't touch the asst. coaches), and Dimitroff (don't raid our scouting department).

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:55 AM
All I can say is, I'm glad neither are the Chiefs GM.

I wouldn't give a first for Cassell.

Because you like the 50/50 chance that a first rounder gives you? Because Ryan Leaf and a massive host of 1st round total bust QBs hasn't proven, in your mind, that drafting is always a MASSIVE gamble?

Because you like Junior Siavii better?

IMHO ***ALL fans*** overvalue trade picks. I had wars on here and elsewhere regarding how stupid the Pats were to give up a 2nd for Welker. Nobody expected him to be a pro bowler, but honestly -- an obviously establish NFL player who could play slot very well and return punts, NOW, instead of someone who was hit or miss and would be a project in either case? WRs especially take a long time to develop. To me, it was a no-brainer.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:55 AM
See I don't get this. All the talk about what to do w/our #3 pick and most folks here want to bet the farm on an unproven kid straight out of college. Here we have a proven commodity that has done quite well already in the NFL and for some reason he's not worth a 1st-rounder?

Exactly correct.

Now, I'm not saying that Cassell is necessarily worth the #3 pick, but your analysis in general is perfectly correct.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 09:56 AM
Cassell is a system QB with a weak arm.

First, we had a long thread about what "system QB" even means, and pretty much decided that no two people agree on it. It's a silly thing to say.

Second, he does NOT have a weak arm. He couldn't CONNECT on the long ball with Randy, but that was timing. Half the time he OVERthrew him.

Brock
01-10-2009, 10:00 AM
If Matt Schaub is worth 2 second rounders, Cassell's probably worth quite a bit more than that. The comparisons to the Eli situation is kind of ridiculous though.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 10:03 AM
If Matt Schaub is worth 2 second rounders, Cassell's probably worth quite a bit more than that. The comparisons to the Eli situation is kind of ridiculous though.

Yes and no. I personally don't think I'd give a top 5 pick for Cassell or anything. But the point is that NOBODY really knows what Eli or Rivers would do in the NFL. Sure, they had hopes, but it's all projection and guesswork and prayer and luck. People thought highly of Leaf, Mirer and god knows how many top 10 picks that completely flamed out in the NFL, or had perfectly mediocre careers.

With Cassell, you have a MUCH better idea of what you're getting, AND you don't have to spend a year or two sucking while they figure out how to play in the NFL, which is almost inevitable with a rookie starting QB.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 10:04 AM
If Matt Schaub is worth 2 second rounders, Cassell's probably worth quite a bit more than that. The comparisons to the Eli situation is kind of ridiculous though.

One more thought -- forget being a Chiefs fan for a second.

What is Cassell worth to the Bears, Jets, Ravens (I haven't seen much of their new kid, maybe he's the real deal and if so forget them), or any other established, very good team that just CAN'T solve their QB problem?

I'd say easily a 1st. He might be the difference between real SB contender and just being a good team. The Chiefs with someone like Cassell might have won that SB a couple years ago, etc.

milkman
01-10-2009, 10:08 AM
First, we had a long thread about what "system QB" even means, and pretty much decided that no two people agree on it. It's a silly thing to say.

Second, he does NOT have a weak arm. He couldn't CONNECT on the long ball with Randy, but that was timing. Half the time he OVERthrew him.

Weak armed QBs often do overthrow the deep ball.

I don't like the zip (or lack thereof) on the 15 yard out, for instance.

FringeNC
01-10-2009, 10:11 AM
One more thought -- forget being a Chiefs fan for a second.

What is Cassell worth to the Bears, Jets, Ravens (I haven't seen much of their new kid, maybe he's the real deal and if so forget them), or any other established, very good team that just CAN'T solve their QB problem?

I'd say easily a 1st. He might be the difference between real SB contender and just being a good team. The Chiefs with someone like Cassell might have won that SB a couple years ago, etc.

Minnesota. I can't see them wasting another season with Tavaris Jackson and Gus Frerotte.

chiefsngop
01-10-2009, 11:37 AM
I don't think a 1st for Cassell will happen.

Maybe if the Raiders didn't have Jamar. Russell then some dumbass like Al Davis might give that for him.

If they actually do pull a 1st for Cassell then I'll stop thinking it's entirely ridiculous to get a 2nd rounder for LJ.

But I don't see it happening.

RedNeckRaider
01-10-2009, 12:05 PM
I'd say easily a 1st. He might be the difference between real SB contender and just being a good team. The Chiefs with someone like Cassell might have won that SB a couple years ago, etc.

Brady comes out of nowhere and comes up huge, he gets hurt and this kid does the same thing. It makes me and I am sure most GMs wonder if it is the player or the team and system.

Amnorix
01-10-2009, 03:54 PM
Weak armed QBs often do overthrow the deep ball.

I don't like the zip (or lack thereof) on the 15 yard out, for instance.

:shrug: He hit them all year long, so I honestly don't see the problem. He showed me, by the end of the year, that he could hit every pass pattern there is. Deep outs were not a problem.

dorseybowe
01-10-2009, 04:42 PM
In defense of Cassell, Cassell has hardly played throughout his career and should still improve, but he's obviously not a candidate for the Chiefs.

Cornstock
01-10-2009, 05:31 PM
In the cases where the team is built around the QB, like with Brady and Manning, people never call them a system QB. Their offenses were completely designed around them but they're not system QBs. They are the "good" QBs. But with Cassel, the Patriots have hardly missed a beat, except for the very beginning of the year when he was learning the ropes. I think it would be interesting if Manning went down to see what a competant backup could do.
Everyone knows if I called Tom Brady a system QB I would be crucified, but if I called Cassell a system QB many would agree with me. Its because the offense came first, not the QB.

It is curious to extrapolate that situation upon Thigpen because he attempted to play in the old Chiefs offense and didnt do so hot, but now he has an offense designed for him and he plays well in it. Using this logic, it would seem that Thigpen will eventually fit into the "good" QB category if he can continue(or improve rather) to play well in this offense designed for him rather than be called a system QB.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-10-2009, 06:23 PM
Yes and no. I personally don't think I'd give a top 5 pick for Cassell or anything. But the point is that NOBODY really knows what Eli or Rivers would do in the NFL. Sure, they had hopes, but it's all projection and guesswork and prayer and luck. People thought highly of Leaf, Mirer and god knows how many top 10 picks that completely flamed out in the NFL, or had perfectly mediocre careers.

With Cassell, you have a MUCH better idea of what you're getting, AND you don't have to spend a year or two sucking while they figure out how to play in the NFL, which is almost inevitable with a rookie starting QB.

No way he's worth a top 5 pick IMO. He wasn't good enough to start ahead of Leinert but he's worth a higher draft pick? I could easily see him in Chicago next year though.

Ebolapox
01-10-2009, 06:43 PM
First, it's a QB. Second, he's still young. Third, I think you are just wrong. It depends on the player, his talent, his ceiling, his age and his history of problems and/or injuries.

Honestly, nobody is quite sure what his ceiling is. If he went to a team with a solid offensive cast around him, there's no reason that I could see that he couldn't be above average, and possibly a pro bowler. I'm not saying he's Peyton Manning or Tom Brady, but there's no reason he couldn't be a Carson Palmer, Philip Rivers or whatever. Very solid / above average, with a pro bowl or two.

i'm not predicting it, but it's not inconceivable or anything.

ROFL

we get it. you like matt cassell. more than anybody on this forum. shit, you want to have his lovechild if you think he can be carson palmer or philip rivers. shit, hype him up more. he's a system QB. nothing more, nothing less. in a system where a pro bowl QB can put up record numbers and go undefeated, he couldn't even lead his team to the playoffs (:p)

I'm just not impressed with him. you don't give up a high pick for 'solid.' that's just fucking dumb.

and apparently you missed my sarcasm, as we gave up a first round pick (12 or 13 overall) for trent green in 2001. but then again, the chiefs are a dumb organization sometimes.

jjchieffan
01-10-2009, 08:57 PM
I will give your front office credit for this though.. At least they try for unreasonably demands first from others.. The Chiefs would have started with a 3rd or 4th round pick and went down from there..

You pulled that bs completely out of your ass. Name one time that Peterson got less value than a player was worth in a trade. It never happened. The Trent Green trade dragged on forever because Peterson held out for max value. We got great value for Allen. Hell, he even got picks for a used up Dante Hall, a never was Ryan Sims, a mediocre kicker Tynes, and an average Michael Bennett.

Valiant
01-10-2009, 09:06 PM
You pulled that bs completely out of your ass. Name one time that Peterson got less value than a player was worth in a trade. It never happened. The Trent Green trade dragged on forever because Peterson held out for max value. We got great value for Allen. Hell, he even got picks for a used up Dante Hall, a never was Ryan Sims, a mediocre kicker Tynes, and an average Michael Bennett.

TonyG??? Started out low instead of asking for a higher pick first, unless you want to count rumors..

Ultra Peanut
01-10-2009, 09:24 PM
It's a shame Carolina had to trade away this year's draft in order to get Stewart and Otah, because they need someone like Cassel who isn't prone to completely imploding.

Cornstock
01-10-2009, 09:53 PM
It's a shame Carolina had to trade away this year's draft in order to get Stewart and Otah, because they need someone like Cassel who isn't prone to completely imploding.

No joke Delhomme just threw ANOTHER int

jjchieffan
01-10-2009, 10:13 PM
TonyG??? Started out low instead of asking for a higher pick first, unless you want to count rumors..

Uh, Tony G didn't get traded now did he? If Carl had started low, like you say, he would be gone.

KCChiefsFan88
01-10-2009, 10:53 PM
Name one time that Peterson got less value than a player was worth in a trade. It never happened.

Not a player, but a coach... Herm Edwards

jjchieffan
01-10-2009, 11:09 PM
Not a player, but a coach... Herm Edwards

I wish Peterson would have traded Herm. The discussion was about players the Chiefs were trading away, not for. Yes. I agree we got the bad end of that trade.

DJ's left nut
01-10-2009, 11:12 PM
I saw nothing from Cassel as a passer that I didn't see from Thigpen, and I don't like Thigpen.

He cannot throw a deep ball at all and is not even that accurate on the intermediate routes. Without an A+ recieving corps and a very good offensive scheme, he's a 55% passer with limited mobility and a college arm.

Pass...a thousand times pass.

BossChief
01-11-2009, 12:41 AM
CASSELL=GRBAC

THIGPEN=GANNON

NOT AGAIN....

Basileus777
01-11-2009, 12:44 AM
I saw nothing from Cassel as a passer that I didn't see from Thigpen, and I don't like Thigpen.

ROFL

You clearly didn't watch any Pats games in the 2nd half of the season. Say what you want about him, but please don't compare him to Thigpen.

BossChief
01-11-2009, 12:44 AM
I would trade our first next year and a third this year for Tom Terrific though...

The Bad Guy
01-11-2009, 12:47 AM
ROFL

You clearly didn't watch any Pats games in the 2nd half of the season. Say what you want about him, but please don't compare him to Thigpen.

100% agreed.

What I saw from Thigpen was overthrowing every deep ball.

eazyb81
01-12-2009, 08:26 AM
Minnesota is preparing to offer a 1st AND a 2nd for Cassel. Yikes.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/84694-vikings-zeroing-in-on-cassel

It's looking more likely than ever that the quarterback the Vikings will target is the Patriots' Matt Cassel, who could cost $30 million in guaranteed money as well as first- and second-round draft picks. The Vikings' first-round pick is expected to be between Nos. 21 and 23 overall this spring. Cassel, 26, has played four seasons in the NFL, has learned from no-nonsense coaches Bill Belichick in New England and Pete Carroll at Southern California, and is of strong character, as Carroll will tell them when the Vikings do their background checks.

Tribal Warfare
01-12-2009, 08:33 AM
I would trade our first next year and a third this year for Tom Terrific though...

:spock:

Tribal Warfare
01-12-2009, 08:35 AM
THIGPEN=Stewart


FYP

Rausch
01-12-2009, 08:52 AM
Minnesota is preparing to offer a 1st AND a 2nd for Cassel. Yikes.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/84694-vikings-zeroing-in-on-cassel

Fucking stupid...

crazycoffey
01-12-2009, 08:57 AM
trade LJ for him....

Amnorix
01-12-2009, 09:07 AM
Minnesota is preparing to offer a 1st AND a 2nd for Cassel. Yikes.

http://www.fannation.com/truth_and_rumors/view/84694-vikings-zeroing-in-on-cassel

They've got a running game and very solid defense and a QB who is a pathetic joke. They're exactly the kind of team that should be looking closely at Cassell. He might be enough to put them over the top.

eazyb81
01-12-2009, 09:31 AM
They've got a running game and very solid defense and a QB who is a pathetic joke. They're exactly the kind of team that should be looking closely at Cassell. He might be enough to put them over the top.

It's hilarious that they're even in this situation, considering they could have had Pennington last offseason without giving up any draft picks.

smittysbar
01-12-2009, 09:32 AM
Cassel, as a QB not in a Pat's uniform=average at best IMO

el borracho
01-12-2009, 09:50 AM
Heh. It that is true, we should contact the Vikings and offer them Thigpen for a 2nd.

Rausch
01-12-2009, 09:52 AM
Cassel, as a QB not in a Pat's uniform=average at best IMO

Reminds me of Bono/Girlbac.

Yeah, surrounded with SB talent they looked good...

BigChiefFan
01-12-2009, 10:02 AM
Heh. It that is true, we should contact the Vikings and offer them Thigpen for a 2nd.
:D

DeezNutz
01-12-2009, 10:04 AM
Heh. It that is true, we should contact the Vikings and offer them Thigpen for a 2nd.

Yes.

Or Thigpen and our 2nd for JA.

orange
01-12-2009, 10:06 AM
Brady comes out of nowhere and comes up huge, he gets hurt and this kid does the same thing. It makes me and I am sure most GMs wonder if it is the player or the team and system.

It was the Offensive Coordinator!

At least I hope it was...

BigChiefFan
01-12-2009, 10:07 AM
It was the Offensive Coordinator!

At least I hope it was...
ROFL

Amnorix
01-12-2009, 10:21 AM
It's hilarious that they're even in this situation, considering they could have had Pennington last offseason without giving up any draft picks.

I didn't pay much attention to the Pennington free agency situation, but I think Pennington is better than some starting QBs out there, no doubt about it.

smittysbar
01-12-2009, 10:41 AM
It was the Offensive Coordinator!

At least I hope it was...

You havn't heard? It was Pioli that got him and Tom playing good, pretty amazing really

FringeNC
01-12-2009, 10:43 AM
I wouldn't mind having the guy the Patriots drafted last year. Jaworski seemed almost as high on him as he was Cutler the previous year.

orange
01-12-2009, 10:47 AM
You havn't heard? It was Pioli that got him and Tom playing good, pretty amazing really

I heard that was still up in the air - maybe it was Pioli, maybe it wasn't. I think they're supposed to decide in a few more days.

smittysbar
01-12-2009, 10:52 AM
I heard that was still up in the air - maybe it was Pioli, maybe it wasn't. I think they're supposed to decide in a few more days.

It was a joke

orange
01-12-2009, 10:57 AM
It was a joke

...as was my response - I think.

84638

smittysbar
01-12-2009, 10:58 AM
...as was my response - I think.

84638

10-4

Ebolapox
01-12-2009, 11:29 AM
It was the Offensive Coordinator!

At least I hope it was...

yeah, cuz he was the coordinator starting in 2000 when brady was a rookie, right?

:spock:

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-07-2010, 11:28 PM
See I don't get this. All the talk about what to do w/our #3 pick and most folks here want to bet the farm on an unproven kid straight out of college. Here we have a proven commodity that has done quite well already in the NFL and for some reason he's not worth a 1st-rounder?


Dear God...

Direckshun
10-07-2010, 11:29 PM
God damn it. Can we please stop this shit?

Not that I am, but is MahiMike really that important of a poster here, that we have to dig up this shit from two years ago?

J Diddy
10-07-2010, 11:33 PM
God damn it. Can we please stop this shit?

Not that I am, but is MahiMike really that important of a poster here, that we have to dig up this shit from two years ago?


I would agree that anyone who bumps a year old thread needs to die from food sickness from the ghonnarhea soup

SNR
10-07-2010, 11:33 PM
Yesssss.

Dig up MOAR THREDS, PLZ!!!!!

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-07-2010, 11:36 PM
God damn it. Can we please stop this shit?

Not that I am, but is MahiMike really that important of a poster here, that we have to dig up this shit from two years ago?

It was referenced in another thread, it tickled my fancy. Case fucking closed.

DBOSHO
10-07-2010, 11:54 PM
I just jimped lol

I misinterpreted and thought the patriots were offering us a first to get cassel back

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-07-2010, 11:55 PM
I just jimped lol

I misinterpreted and thought the patriots were offering us a first to get cassel back

ROFL

DBOSHO
10-07-2010, 11:58 PM
ROFL

Well scott IS the gm of the decade right?

MAKE IT HAPPEN SCOTT!

Sweet Daddy Hate
10-08-2010, 12:01 AM
Well scott IS the gm of the decade right?

MAKE IT HAPPEN SCOTT!

I would never say another unkind word about him for as long as I lived.

SNR
10-08-2010, 12:06 AM
*ring*

Belichick: Hello?

Pioli: Hai Bil i fixed ur qb 4u!!

easymobee
10-08-2010, 12:51 AM
Read the whole thread.

Looks like the Chiefs got their cake and ate it too.

Got to keep the 1st rounder (Tyson Jackson) excellent ....

And got their QBOTF in Cassel , even more excellent ......

Then in some twisted way, because of all of this Jay Cutler will be riding the bus in his bathrobe by 45.

Jenson71
10-08-2010, 01:03 AM
I would agree that anyone who bumps a year old thread needs to die from food sickness from the ghonnarhea soup

LMAO

I think "gonorrhea soup" could be the next AIDS tree if only it wasn't so completely difficult to spell.

Pasta Giant Meatball
10-08-2010, 06:08 AM
Read the whole thread.

Looks like the Chiefs got their cake and ate it too.

Got to keep the 1st rounder (Tyson Jackson) excellent ....

And got their QBOTF in Cassel , even more excellent ......

Then in some twisted way, because of all of this Jay Cutler will be riding the bus in his bathrobe by 45.

That Denver franchise is in such great hands with the great Mickey D ROFL It's not like they haven't bombed on any recent picks lately.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-08-2010, 07:11 AM
I didn't respond to this thread a year ago. However, I am on record plenty that I was fine with trading the second for Cassel. I didn't want to trade our first, but the second was fine.

Even now, looking back, I am okay with trading our second for Cassel on its face. The problem I have is with the TJ pick. I was not a huge fan of the pick initially, but was willing to give him a chance. He has not lived up, and will probably never live up to his draft status.

I think TJ will be a solid defender here for the next 10 years or so..... it is hard to call that kind of production a 'bust'. But, it is unlikely that he will ever live up to his draft position.

Now, as far as Cassel goes.... he is playing under his fourth offensive coordinator in the span of less than two calendar years. Until this year, he has had mediocre talent around him at best. He has improved each week this season.

It may be a little early to write the final chapter of this book just yet. I was giving him until the Houston game, but he had a good game against the 9ers... more of that would be nice.

I think the one thing I was the most wrong about was Sanchez. I know he has more talent around him, but he has looked very good other than that first game. I may be eating crow on Sanchez for the next 10 years of Pro Bowls. I am looking forward to watching the Monday Night game. I am still not sold on him. But, I hated him so much coming out of college... I may not fully buy in until he is inducted to the HOF. :)

milkman
10-08-2010, 08:19 AM
I didn't respond to this thread a year ago. However, I am on record plenty that I was fine with trading the second for Cassel. I didn't want to trade our first, but the second was fine.

Even now, looking back, I am okay with trading our second for Cassel on its face. The problem I have is with the TJ pick. I was not a huge fan of the pick initially, but was willing to give him a chance. He has not lived up, and will probably never live up to his draft status.

I think TJ will be a solid defender here for the next 10 years or so..... it is hard to call that kind of production a 'bust'. But, it is unlikely that he will ever live up to his draft position.

Now, as far as Cassel goes.... he is playing under his fourth offensive coordinator in the span of less than two calendar years. Until this year, he has had mediocre talent around him at best. He has improved each week this season.

It may be a little early to write the final chapter of this book just yet. I was giving him until the Houston game, but he had a good game against the 9ers... more of that would be nice.

I think the one thing I was the most wrong about was Sanchez. I know he has more talent around him, but he has looked very good other than that first game. I may be eating crow on Sanchez for the next 10 years of Pro Bowls. I am looking forward to watching the Monday Night game. I am still not sold on him. But, I hated him so much coming out of college... I may not fully buy in until he is inducted to the HOF. :)

Sanchez has played better the last couple of weeks than I expected that he would at this point, but I would not be surprised to see him regress some as the season moves forward.

I still believe that next season will be the one that Sanchez really emerges.

I also still believe that the Chiefs would have been better served long term to have used that #3 pick on Sanchez, and to have sit him on the bench for a couple years, than to have traded for Cassel, at any price.

notorious
10-08-2010, 08:36 AM
Jesus, Amorix had Cassels dick all the way down his throat.



We all make bad predictions and evaluations on here, but good lord.

SenselessChiefsFan
10-08-2010, 08:40 AM
Sanchez has played better the last couple of weeks than I expected that he would at this point, but I would not be surprised to see him regress some as the season moves forward.

I still believe that next season will be the one that Sanchez really emerges.

I also still believe that the Chiefs would have been better served long term to have used that #3 pick on Sanchez, and to have sit him on the bench for a couple years, than to have traded for Cassel, at any price.

Well, it would be revisionist of me to agree with you. I made my choice last year.

When I made my choice, I didn't think that TJ would be the pick... but I have to judge the Cassel move independent of the TJ pick.

I also don't think we can completely overlook the contribution of Vrabel to this team. He has clearly provided leadership and helped the defense to turn it around.

So, really, the second was for Vrabel.... Cassel was a throw in to seal the deal. :)

Amnorix
10-08-2010, 08:48 AM
Jesus, Amorix had Cassels dick all the way down his throat.



We all make bad predictions and evaluations on here, but good lord.


:rolleyes: He didn't suck when *I* was watching him play. Note that EVERYTHING was miles better with the Patriots. Passer rating of 90. Ran more times for more yards. Higher completion percentage. Better TD/Pick ratio. Led team to 11 wins. And he clearly got better as the year went along. Other than giving up WAY too many sacks, he was a much better performer in 2008.



<TABLE class=datatablecell cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=datatabledatahead><TD rowSpan=2>Season</TD><TD rowSpan=2>Team</TD><TD colSpan=2></TD><TD colSpan=10>Passing</TD><TD colSpan=4>Rushing</TD><TD colSpan=2>Fumbles</TD></TR><TR class=datatabledatahead><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>Comp</TD><TD>Att</TD><TD>Pct</TD><TD>Yds</TD><TD>Avg</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>Int</TD><TD>Sck</TD><TD>SckY</TD><TD>Rate</TD><TD>Att</TD><TD>Yds</TD><TD>Avg</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>FUM</TD><TD>Lost</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className=''"><TD>2010 </TD><TD>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) </TD><TD>3 </TD><TD>3 </TD><TD>42</TD><TD>77</TD><TD>54.5</TD><TD>494</TD><TD>6.4</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>75.4</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>2.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>--</TD><TD>--</TD></TR><TR class=rowAlt onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className='rowAlt'"><TD>2009 </TD><TD>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>271</TD><TD>493</TD><TD>55.0</TD><TD>2,924</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>243</TD><TD>69.9</TD><TD>50</TD><TD>189</TD><TD>3.8</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>3</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className=''"><TD>2008 </TD><TD>New England Patriots (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) </TD><TD>16 </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>327</TD><TD>516</TD><TD>63.4</TD><TD>3,693</TD><TD>7.2</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>47</TD><TD>219</TD><TD>89.4</TD><TD>73</TD><TD>270</TD><TD>3.7</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

notorious
10-08-2010, 08:56 AM
:rolleyes: He didn't suck when *I* was watching him play. Note that EVERYTHING was miles better with the Patriots. Passer rating of 90. Ran more times for more yards. Higher completion percentage. Better TD/Pick ratio. Led team to 11 wins. And he clearly got better as the year went along. Other than giving up WAY too many sacks, he was a much better performer in 2008.





Just breaking balls. I have been wrong plenty of times on this board. I do apologize for my colorful description, though.


BUT

He was surrounded by possibly the greatest team in NFL history. It would have been hard for him to screw up that situation.

Reerun_KC
10-08-2010, 08:59 AM
Just breaking balls. I have been wrong plenty of times on this board. I do apologize for my colorful description, though.


BUT

He was surrounded by possibly the greatest team in NFL history. It would have been hard for him to screw up that situation.

Depends on what side of the fence your on, but there is always a "but" or an "excuse" to prove or disprove the player your "like" or "dont like"...

Amnorix
10-08-2010, 09:09 AM
Just breaking balls. I have been wrong plenty of times on this board. I do apologize for my colorful description, though.


BUT

He was surrounded by possibly the greatest team in NFL history. It would have been hard for him to screw up that situation.

I get ya. But honestly, he WAS accurate. He was slow in his decision-making, and took too long to get the ball out, leading to too many sacks, but when he delivered, he did it well. Had good arm strength, etc. The only issue was absolutely ZERO touch on deep throws.

But he could throw every other type of pass there is to throw. I suspect that he's been messed up by the mediocre OLine/receiving group in KC in 2009, and will need to be brought along with this newer, seemingly better group.

DJ's left nut
10-08-2010, 09:44 AM
Damn I'm good.

He cannot throw a deep ball at all and is not even that accurate on the intermediate routes. Without an A+ recieving corps and a very good offensive scheme, he's a 55% passer with limited mobility and a college arm.








<TABLE class=datatablecell cellSpacing=1 cellPadding=0 width="100%"><TBODY><TR class=datatabledatahead><TD rowSpan=2>Season</TD><TD rowSpan=2>Team</TD><TD colSpan=2></TD><TD colSpan=10>Passing</TD><TD colSpan=4>Rushing</TD><TD colSpan=2>Fumbles</TD></TR><TR class=datatabledatahead><TD>G</TD><TD>GS</TD><TD>Comp</TD><TD>Att</TD><TD>Pct</TD><TD>Yds</TD><TD>Avg</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>Int</TD><TD>Sck</TD><TD>SckY</TD><TD>Rate</TD><TD>Att</TD><TD>Yds</TD><TD>Avg</TD><TD>TD</TD><TD>FUM</TD><TD>Lost</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className=''"><TD>2010 </TD><TD>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) </TD><TD>3 </TD><TD>3 </TD><TD>42</TD><TD>77</TD><TD>54.5</TD><TD>494</TD><TD>6.4</TD><TD>4</TD><TD>3</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>10</TD><TD>75.4</TD><TD>8</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>2.0</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>--</TD><TD>--</TD></TR><TR class=rowAlt onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className='rowAlt'"><TD>2009 </TD><TD>Kansas City Chiefs (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/kansascitychiefs/profile?team=KC) </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>271</TD><TD>493</TD><TD>55.0</TD><TD>2,924</TD><TD>5.9</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>16</TD><TD>42</TD><TD>243</TD><TD>69.9</TD><TD>50</TD><TD>189</TD><TD>3.8</TD><TD>0</TD><TD>14</TD><TD>3</TD></TR><TR onmouseover="this.className='over'" onmouseout="this.className=''"><TD>2008 </TD><TD>New England Patriots (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/teams/newenglandpatriots/profile?team=NE) </TD><TD>16 </TD><TD>15 </TD><TD>327</TD><TD>516</TD><TD>63.4</TD><TD>3,693</TD><TD>7.2</TD><TD>21</TD><TD>11</TD><TD>47</TD><TD>219</TD><TD>89.4</TD><TD>73</TD><TD>270</TD><TD>3.7</TD><TD>2</TD><TD>7</TD><TD>4</TD></TR></TBODY></TABLE>

Valiant
10-08-2010, 10:59 AM
I just jimped lol

I misinterpreted and thought the patriots were offering us a first to get cassel back

Yeah with them going after branch. Might as well see what we can get for vrabel and cassle.

FAX
10-08-2010, 11:05 AM
Damn I'm good.

That was pretty good, Mr. DJ's left nut ... actually ... unfortunately.

FAX