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shaneo69
01-09-2009, 07:13 PM
A Royal Dump
by Dave Cameron - January 9, 2009

Man, I feel bad for Royals fans. Today, they announced a two year contract for Willie Bloomquist, worth a total of $3 million. That gives us this unholy quarter of transactions:

Kyle Farnsworth - 2 years, $9 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.1 wins above replacement
Mike Jacobs - 1 year, $3.5 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.7 wins above replacement
Horacio Ramirez - 1 year, $1.9 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.2 wins above replacement
Willie Bloomquist - 2 years, $3 million, 2006 to 2008: 0.3 wins above replacement

Those Win Value totals are not per year, but three year totals. Over the last three seasons, that foursome has been worth 1.3 wins combined. Thatís 12 player-seasons to accumulate just over one marginal win. If you were trying to scrape up examples of major league players who represent replacement level performance, you couldnít do much better than this group.

That those four will earn a collective $11.4 million in 2009 is pretty staggering. $11.4 million for four guys who, if everything goes right, will add something like one win to the Royals roster next year. $11.4 million for one win. I guess itís better than the $12 million they spent to get 0.2 wins from Jose Guillen last winter, but thatís in the same way that getting stabbed is better than getting shot.

Dayton Moore came from Atlanta with a strong record of player development. Heís going to have be a Hall of Fame caliber GM at cultivating talent from within his own organization to overcome what can only be described as a devastatingly poor ability to evaluate major league players.

Really, in a market that could only be described as the best buyerís market weíve seen in a long time, Dayton Moore has still managed to squander money on unproductive players who do nothing to help his team win. Thatís amazing.

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/a-royal-dump/

keg in kc
01-09-2009, 07:17 PM
Wonder why he left out Coco Crisp?

Infidel Goat
01-09-2009, 07:21 PM
With the exception of the Farnsworth signing, he's talking about chump change in MLB.

eazyb81
01-09-2009, 07:22 PM
Darn, a sabremetric geek with a blog doesn't like Dayton Moore's moves this offseason. What will we do???

DeezNutz
01-09-2009, 07:24 PM
I'd admit that this FA period doesn't look the best on paper. We'll see, though.

I really think this is the year Pena breaks through to the tune of .218/.235/.278

eazyb81
01-09-2009, 07:26 PM
I'd admit that this FA period doesn't look the best on paper. We'll see, though.

I really think this is the year Pena breaks through to the tune of .218/.235/.278

For another team?

I'm assuming the signing of Bloomquist finally gets Pena off the roster.

DeezNutz
01-09-2009, 07:28 PM
For another team?

I'm assuming the signing of Bloomquist finally gets Pena off the roster.

Never!

If the Royals want to get to where they want to go, Pena is going to have to be a part of this. /LaFever/

Deberg_1990
01-09-2009, 07:33 PM
How long does Dayton get a pass??

This will be his 3rd full year right? What if the Royals are bad again this year??

eazyb81
01-09-2009, 07:34 PM
How long does Dayton get a pass??

This will be his 3rd full year right? What if the Royals are bad again this year??

What the hell are you talking about?

The Royals' record has improved every single year he's been here.

DeezNutz
01-09-2009, 07:35 PM
How long does Dayton get a pass??

This will be his 3rd full year right? What if the Royals are bad again this year??

The honeymoon period is over. Dayton's said this himself, though. No excuses. Said "they're no longer a young team."

Let's see what happens. He's been improving the team, especially in the draft, IMO.

Deberg_1990
01-09-2009, 07:44 PM
What the hell are you talking about?

The Royals' record has improved every single year he's been here.

Yea, i guess they didnt finish in last in 08. Thats progress.

eazyb81
01-09-2009, 07:47 PM
Yea, i guess they didnt finish in last in 08. Thats progress.

Yep, it is progress, especially when you consider the shape of the franchise when Moore took over (numerous insiders have said it was "expansion level").

I know people want a worst-to-first run, but that's not realistic. I don't know how anyone can rationally fault a GM when he's made the team better every year and hasn't abandoned the young players to do so.

keg in kc
01-09-2009, 07:57 PM
Baseball isn't football. It takes about 5 years to rebuild a MLB franchise from rookie-ball up. I don't know that people have a grasp on just how bad the Royals were, top-to-bottom, when he came onboard in '06. I would imagine the real, important, long-term FA signings will come in the 2010-2011 range, once more pieces come up from the farm system (assuming anything comes up from the farm system, of course). I've thought this was going to be a long process from the start.

Baseball is not a sport for the ritalin generation. Hell, both off the field and on it.

Silock
01-09-2009, 07:58 PM
Yep, it is progress, especially when you consider the shape of the franchise when Moore took over (numerous insiders have said it was "expansion level").

I know people want a worst-to-first run, but that's not realistic. I don't know how anyone can rationally fault a GM when he's made the team better every year and hasn't abandoned the young players to do so.

This. And I don't agree with sleazyb very often.

MIAdragon
01-09-2009, 07:59 PM
Baseball isn't football. It takes about 5 years to rebuild a MLB franchise from rookie-ball up. I don't know that people have a grasp on just how bad the Royals were, top-to-bottom, when he came onboard in '06. I would imagine the real, important, long-term FA signings will come in the 2010-2011 range, once more pieces come up from the farm system (assuming anything comes up from the farm system, of course). I've thought this was going to be a long process from the start.

Baseball is not a sport for the ritalin generation. Hell, both off the field and on it.

IMO it takes WAY more than 5 years.

DeezNutz
01-09-2009, 08:00 PM
This thread is going to end quickly b/c there's going to be too much agreement.

DeezNutz
01-09-2009, 08:00 PM
IMO it takes WAY more than 5 years.

I'm guessing keg means to the point of respectability, not a championship level.

keg in kc
01-09-2009, 08:03 PM
I'm guessing keg means to the point of respectability, not a championship level.Yep. And I really mean just in terms of rebuilding the minor leagues until it has a solid impact on the major league team. We were horrible drafting and horrible in player development. In all tiers of the organization from Rookie on up. That takes a lot of work and a lot of time to fix.

None of which is any sort of judgement on Moore, positive or negative. It's just an acknowledgement of how long I think it takes, and how long I think he should have before any sort of thumbs-up or thumbs-down is really justifiable.

KCCHIEFS27
01-09-2009, 08:48 PM
This "wins above replacement" is probably one of the most irrelevant figures I've seen used as basis for downplaying off-season acquisitions. AND he says it's a buyers market. Yeah it sure is, only if you have 200 million dollars to pay these hot commodities. I know it's been stated that Moore has an increased budget, but I didn't believe it then and I sure as hell don't believe it now. The guy is somehow making progress with a chain and ball wrapped around both feet. A round of applause from me to Dayton Moore for what he's been able to show me so far.

KC_Connection
01-09-2009, 09:07 PM
Why would anybody sign Willie Fucking Bloomquist to a 2 year deal?

Heck, why would anybody sign him at all?

Thig Lyfe
01-09-2009, 09:12 PM
Shoulda signed Sabathia.

Sam Hall
01-09-2009, 09:21 PM
They wanted a backup shortstop, and the other options were similar to Bloomquist. It might take a season like Tampa Bay had to get the big free agents to come here. They need to show people they can win. I'm hoping they finish .500 this season. The guys they already have need to improve.

KC_Connection
01-09-2009, 09:23 PM
They wanted a backup shortstop, and the other options were similar to Bloomquist. It might take a season like Tampa Bay had to get the big free agents to come here. They need to show people they can win. I'm hoping they finish .500 this season. The guys they already have need to improve.

You don't sign a backup shortstop for 2 years. Especially not one as shitty as Bloomquist. It just doesn't make any sense.

Sam Hall
01-09-2009, 09:27 PM
You don't sign a backup shortstop for 2 years. Especially not one as shitty as Bloomquist. It just doesn't make any sense.

David Eckstein wouldn't have been much better. He probably would've taken away at-bats from a younger player. I don't think two years and $3 million is a big commitment.

Demonpenz
01-09-2009, 09:53 PM
Mike Jacobs is going to win a couple of mike sweeney leadership awards i'll bet. It will be interesting to see how the royals awards shake down at the overland park convention center dinner coming up.

KC_Connection
01-09-2009, 10:28 PM
David Eckstein wouldn't have been much better. He probably would've taken away at-bats from a younger player. I don't think two years and $3 million is a big commitment.

Not having roster flexibility because you used it on one of the worst players in the league is a stupid move. If a team wants to sign Bloomquist (before today, I didn't really see why anybody would), go from year-to-year with him, it makes far more sense than what the Royals have done.

Sam Hall
01-09-2009, 10:34 PM
One good thing is Bloomquist may push Tony Pena Jr. off the roster. Gathright is gone, and people like Pena and Gload won't get as many at-bats.

doomy3
01-09-2009, 11:06 PM
The thing that pisses me off is the signings of Farnsworth and the trade for Crisp. We could have saved money, kept Ramirez, and signed Burrell for $9Mill and had an outfield with Burrell, DeJesus, and Guillen. That looks a lot better IMO than Crisp out there. Plus our bullpen would be better, and it would still be cheaper.

Sam Hall
01-09-2009, 11:11 PM
Sounds good, but I doubt Burrell would go from the world champs to KC. It reminds me of what the Nationals are trying. They are throwing money at the big names, but can't sign them.

eazyb81
01-10-2009, 09:19 AM
Not having roster flexibility because you used it on one of the worst players in the league is a stupid move. If a team wants to sign Bloomquist (before today, I didn't really see why anybody would), go from year-to-year with him, it makes far more sense than what the Royals have done.

Why the F#ck does it matter? Will we not need a backup SS next year? Does Bloomquist have a small track record that would make us doubt he'll do what we expect this year and next?

It's amazing that people can even take the time to bitch about signing a backup infielder. Do you not have any hobbies?

eazyb81
01-10-2009, 09:23 AM
The thing that pisses me off is the signings of Farnsworth and the trade for Crisp. We could have saved money, kept Ramirez, and signed Burrell for $9Mill and had an outfield with Burrell, DeJesus, and Guillen. That looks a lot better IMO than Crisp out there. Plus our bullpen would be better, and it would still be cheaper.

What makes you think Burrell would sign with us, considering the last three major free agents we've gone after (Hunter, Jones, Furcal) have just used us to drive up the price for other teams?

It's great in theory to say we should have just signed Burrell, Dunn, or Manny, but those players simply are not going to sign with the KC Royals at this point. Hell, we had to overpay just to sign Jose Guillen.

So it comes down to sitting on that cash and doing nothing, or using available payroll to sign other players that will add depth and improve the team. I prefer the latter.

KC_Connection
01-10-2009, 02:12 PM
Why the F#ck does it matter? Will we not need a backup SS next year? Does Bloomquist have a small track record that would make us doubt he'll do what we expect this year and next?


Signing somebody like Willie Bloomquist (arguably one of the worst players in baseball) for 2 years isn't good roster management, there is no way around that.

And yes, I'd rather save the cash than, as the article states, pay "unproductive players who do nothing to help his team win."

|Zach|
01-10-2009, 03:45 PM
How long does Dayton get a pass??

This will be his 3rd full year right? What if the Royals are bad again this year??

You are the king of internet message board sports fan losers.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 03:50 PM
How long does Dayton get a pass??

This will be his 3rd full year right? What if the Royals are bad again this year??

You are a moron. The teams record has gotten better every year since he's been here. That's improvement. That's what he was hired to do. You don't turn around a small market baseball team in a year or two. Seriously just shut up if you don't know what you're talking about.

doomy3
01-10-2009, 03:59 PM
What makes you think Burrell would sign with us, considering the last three major free agents we've gone after (Hunter, Jones, Furcal) have just used us to drive up the price for other teams?

It's great in theory to say we should have just signed Burrell, Dunn, or Manny, but those players simply are not going to sign with the KC Royals at this point. Hell, we had to overpay just to sign Jose Guillen.

So it comes down to sitting on that cash and doing nothing, or using available payroll to sign other players that will add depth and improve the team. I prefer the latter.

You're telling me that if we paid Burrell 1.5-2 Million more than what he signed for, he wouldn't come here? Maybe he wouldn't have, but I still don't like throwing 3 million at a guy like Bloomquist. It just doesn't make sense.

And I don't usually pick apart every move the Royals make, and I am a huge fan of Dayton, but this offseason has been puzzling to say the least.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:10 PM
And I don't usually pick apart every move the Royals make, and I am a huge fan of Dayton, but this offseason has been puzzling to say the least.

I'm a Royals fan first and foremost. I like the Jacobs and Crisp signings. I think we paid way too damn much for Farnsworth but he's likely to be trade bait at the deadline anyway. The Bloomquist signing does absolutely nothing to impress me but I believe in Dayton's ability to see something in a player more than my own so for now I'll just wait and see on that one.

He's signed a couple guys I really questioned... Kyle Davies for one... but Davies turned into a decent pitcher by the 2nd half of last season so I think Dayton is still to be trusted. Even a hard core Cardinal fan I work with thinks Davies has a bright future. People just have to be freakin patient... but I know that's not how it works in football and that's what this site is made of... football fans.

Dayton has done a good job of finding contributors without breaking the bank. I think he's one of the best GM's in baseball. He doesn't have a NY budget to work with. Give it a couple, three more years. I think we're heading in the right direction.

DeezNutz
01-10-2009, 04:13 PM
I believe in Dayton's ability to see something in a player more than my own.

And this is the type of attitude that's preventing you from reaching your potential as a poster. Trusting a professional GM more than yourself...unbelievable. :D

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:16 PM
And this is the type of attitude that's preventing you from reaching your potential as a poster. Trusting a professional GM more than yourself...unbelievable. :D

I know... I don't try to pretend like I know it all MOST of the time and that holds be back from greatness when it comes to this place. Oh well.


:sulk:

doomy3
01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
I'm a Royals fan first and foremost. I like the Jacobs and Crisp signings. I think we paid way too damn much for Farnsworth but he's likely to be trade bait at the deadline anyway. The Bloomquist signing does absolutely nothing to impress me but I believe in Dayton's ability to see something in a player more than my own so for now I'll just wait and see on that one.

He's signed a couple guys I really questioned... Kyle Davies for one... but Davies turned into a decent pitcher by the 2nd half of last season so I think Dayton is still to be trusted. Even a hard core Cardinal fan I work with thinks Davies has a bright future. People just have to be freakin patient... but I know that's not how it works in football and that's what this site is made of... football fans.

Dayton has done a good job of finding contributors without breaking the bank. I think he's one of the best GM's in baseball. He doesn't have a NY budget to work with. Give it a couple, three more years. I think we're heading in the right direction.


my thing though is throwing medium range money at guys who are scrap heap type of players. The guys like Bloomquist, Farnsworth, last year Tomko and Yabuta. Those are just bad deals IMO. No matter what your market. I would just much rather go young instead of playing these guys and then use the money we are spending on those bad contracts and get some impact guys.

tk13
01-10-2009, 04:17 PM
You're telling me that if we paid Burrell 1.5-2 Million more than what he signed for, he wouldn't come here? Maybe he wouldn't have, but I still don't like throwing 3 million at a guy like Bloomquist. It just doesn't make sense.

And I don't usually pick apart every move the Royals make, and I am a huge fan of Dayton, but this offseason has been puzzling to say the least.
That's hard to say, especially since the Rays played in the World Series last year, and we didn't. I think we're just having a difficult time getting free agents to come here, and that probably won't change until we win.

No matter what happens, even this year... Dayton will and should eventually be judged about how these draft classes do. That's the biggest change he's made according to just about everyone. We spent a baseball record on draft picks this year.. and overall we're actually paying market value for late round guys, foreign players, etc. But those aren't going to be instant results.

doomy3
01-10-2009, 04:20 PM
That's hard to say, especially since the Rays played in the World Series last year, and we didn't. I think we're just having a difficult time getting free agents to come here, and that probably won't change until we win.

No matter what happens, even this year... Dayton will and should eventually be judged about how these draft classes do. That's the biggest change he's made according to just about everyone. We spent a baseball record on draft picks this year.. and overall we're actually paying market value for late round guys, foreign players, etc. But those aren't going to be instant results.


I agree with that, and that's why I'm most excited about the direction. I just hope we start to see some of those results. I would also like us to sign more free agents that are those type of guys. Young, high upside types. Last year, we throw all this money at Guillen, Tomko, and Yabuta among others and meanwhile, the White Sox are signing young high upside guys like Alexi Ramirez and Quentin.

DeezNutz
01-10-2009, 04:22 PM
You're telling me that if we paid Burrell 1.5-2 Million more than what he signed for, he wouldn't come here? Maybe he wouldn't have, but I still don't like throwing 3 million at a guy like Bloomquist. It just doesn't make sense.

And I don't usually pick apart every move the Royals make, and I am a huge fan of Dayton, but this offseason has been puzzling to say the least.

I doubt that little would have made a difference. We had to go an extra year and an extra mil. per to get Meche. 15 mil. more total.

I'm guessing we'd have to do about the same with any front-line FA. Would Burrell be worth it? Not sure...

tk13 and others are right about the draft. One thing: we're paying well beyond market value in the later rounds. This is a great sign, and if Moore and his staff have been making the right picks, the FA market will soon start to open up to us a bit more.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:27 PM
my thing though is throwing medium range money at guys who are scrap heap type of players. The guys like Bloomquist, Farnsworth, last year Tomko and Yabuta. Those are just bad deals IMO. No matter what your market. I would just much rather go young instead of playing these guys and then use the money we are spending on those bad contracts and get some impact guys.

I understand that. Tomko was a solid but not spectacular pitcher coming in. Yabuta not so much. People won't admit it because of his attitude but Guillen was an impact player. He lead the team in homers. I think he just hates losing and that's fine with me. People act like he was worthless while he was far from it. I think they got Jacobs at the right time. He could become a star. Hell he already brings in 10 more homers a year last year than even Guillen.

When you have guys on your team that obviously aren't going to be stars... German, Callaspo, etc... and you can't sign a guy like Furcal because of money, then you see something in a player like Bloomquist and take a chance. The money isn't big and it may work out at 2nd. Thus is the connundrum of being a small market/low budget team. You do what you can (Jacobs, Crisp) and then try to fill holes(Bloomquist, Farnsworth). It takes some luck but the team is getting better and I believe we have every reason to believe they will be better this year than last. If anything I want more pitching at this point... as in a starter.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:33 PM
I agree with that, and that's why I'm most excited about the direction. I just hope we start to see some of those results. I would also like us to sign more free agents that are those type of guys. Young, high upside types. Last year, we throw all this money at Guillen, Tomko, and Yabuta among others and meanwhile, the White Sox are signing young high upside guys like Alexi Ramirez and Quentin.

And btw... the White Sox finished behind us.

doomy3
01-10-2009, 04:40 PM
And btw... the White Sox finished behind us.

right. So, obviously Guillen, Tomko and Yabuta were better signings than Alexi Ramirez and Carlos Quentin last year.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:46 PM
right. So, obviously Guillen, Tomko and Yabuta were better signings than Alexi Ramirez and Carlos Quentin last year.

No... but results speak loudest.

KC_Connection
01-10-2009, 04:46 PM
And btw... the White Sox finished behind us.

The White Sox won the AL Central last year.

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 04:47 PM
The White Sox won the AL Central last year.

They were last. Behind the Royals.

KC_Connection
01-10-2009, 04:48 PM
They were last. Behind the Royals.

Check again, dude.

KC_Connection
01-10-2009, 04:53 PM
Central
y-Chicago White Sox 89 74 .546
Minnesota Twins 88 75 .540 1.0
Cleveland Indians 81 81 .500 7.5
Kansas City Royals 75 87 .463 13.5
Detroit Tigers 74 88 .457 14.5

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-10-2009, 05:14 PM
Check again, dude.

Ok it was Detroit. I'm drunk.




ROFL

Ari Chi3fs
01-10-2009, 07:21 PM
A guy named BEER ME is drunk? No way!

KCChiefsFan88
01-10-2009, 09:49 PM
at least the Royals are more competitive than Clark's Chiefs