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bdeg
01-10-2009, 08:35 AM
According to the National Football Post's Michael Lombardi, Julius Peppers is "nowhere close to a new deal with the Panthers and will undoubtedly be franchised."

The Panthers will have to decide between Peppers or fellow All-Pro Jordan Gross for the franchise tag, which could enable Gross to hit the open market by March. Peppers is seeking a monster contract, and the tag would "not sit very well with him."

http://www.rotoworld.com/content/playernews.aspx?sport=NFL

At only 28, he could be our solution at RT if he isn't too expensive. We obviously have a lot of money to spend.

What are the chances he's affordable?

Delano
01-10-2009, 08:36 AM
The chances are nil.

He will command near left tackle money.

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 08:55 AM
Why is everyone on this board so worried about money? The Chiefs have something like $40,000,000 remaining under the salary cap, and Clark Hunt is a billionaire. What a loser's mentality. I bet you don't go on the Cowboys board and hear that players are too expensive. If the guy is worth the money, pay him.

milkman
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
The chances are nil.

He will command near left tackle money.

No he won't.

He'll command pro bowl LT money, because he was named the starter at LT for the NFC.

dirk digler
01-10-2009, 08:57 AM
Money is no obstacle so throw that excuse out.

milkman
01-10-2009, 09:00 AM
Why is everyone on this board so worried about money? The Chiefs have something like $40,000,000 remaining under the salary cap, and Clark Hunt is a billionaire. What a loser's mentality. I bet you don't go on the Cowboys board and hear that players are too expensive. If the guy is worth the money, pay him.

You worry about the money because you recognize the fact that the money has to be spent judiciously by the Chiefs, even with the kind of cap room that the Chiefs have going into next season.

It isn't practical to tie up a large salary into a RT.

You have to think about the future and spending money to improve the roster from top to bottom.

patteeu
01-10-2009, 09:20 AM
Money is no obstacle so throw that excuse out.

At some point you'd like to have a team full of good players. If you spend your entire salary cap on your offensive line, there won't be any money left to build the rest of your team.

Mr. Laz
01-10-2009, 09:27 AM
not unless they plan to use Gross at LT and move Albert to RT

bdeg
01-10-2009, 09:29 AM
No he won't.

He'll command pro bowl LT money, because he was named the starter at LT for the NFC.

And to the Allpro squad.

suds79
01-10-2009, 09:34 AM
At some point you'd like to have a team full of good players. If you spend your entire salary cap on your offensive line, there won't be any money left to build the rest of your team.

Yeah.

You've got to find some gems in the rough at some point on the O-line. If the only way for us to build a solid O-line is by 1st round picks and expensive FAs, we're screwed then.

KChiefs1
01-10-2009, 09:37 AM
And to the Allpro squad.

All-Pro Team:

Tackles:
Jordan Gross, Carolina, 34; Michael Roos, Tennessee, 32; Ryan Clady, Denver, 14; David Stewart, Tennessee, 3; Walter Jones, Seattle, 3; Jason Peters, Buffalo, 3; David Diehl, NY Giants, 3; Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3; Chris Samuels, Washington, 2; Jon Runyan, Philadelphia, 1; Levi Brown, Arizona, 1; Ryan Harris, Denver, 1.

StcChief
01-10-2009, 09:40 AM
wont happen in KC.

Mr. Laz
01-10-2009, 09:41 AM
Yeah.

You've got to find some gems in the rough at some point on the O-line. If the only way for us to build a solid O-line is by 1st round picks and expensive FAs, we're screwed then.
yep ..... but you usually don't 'fish' at the tackle positions imo

a center and guard you want cheaper system guys

LT - Gross
LG - waters
C - Taylor
RG - Niswanger
RT - Albert

looks like a big upgrade over last year to me and that would allow us to focus on other areas in the immediate future.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 09:51 AM
You worry about the money because you recognize the fact that the money has to be spent judiciously by the Chiefs, even with the kind of cap room that the Chiefs have going into next season.

It isn't practical to tie up a large salary into a RT.

You have to think about the future and spending money to improve the roster from top to bottom.

This.

People around here have no concept of the word "future."

Having $30M worth of cap space, then giving huge contracts to guys like Gross and Haynesworth, all but guarantees you will be up against the cap in the future - when you NEED the cap room, because you're hopefully trying to find a final piece of the puzzle or two to make a Championship run.

milkman
01-10-2009, 09:55 AM
yep ..... but you usually don't 'fish' at the tackle positions imo

a center and guard you want cheaper system guys

LT - Gross
LG - waters
C - Taylor
RG - Niswanger
RT - Albert

looks like a big upgrade over last year to me and that would allow us to focus on other areas in the immediate future.

As good as Gross is, Branden Albert has the potetial to be better.

You can find quality RTs in the 2nd, third, fourth and fifth rounds.

Branden Albert played great last year while learning on the job.

I just don't get why people want to just move him.

It's fucking stupid.

Chiefnj2
01-10-2009, 09:56 AM
This.

People around here have no concept of the word "future."

Having $30M worth of cap space, then giving huge contracts to guys like Gross and Haynesworth, all but guarantees you will be up against the cap in the future - when you NEED the cap room, because you're hopefully trying to find a final piece of the puzzle or two to make a Championship run.


KC has tons of room to give a huge base salary and not have it affect later years.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 09:59 AM
KC has tons of room to give a huge base salary and not have it affect later years.

And what do FA's want most?

Not base salary.

Guaranteed money. Signing bonuses.

Guys like Gross, Haynesworth, Suggs, etc are going to command $20-$25M in guaranteed money. Which means you have to be SMART in who you sign to those types of deals.

Chiefnj2
01-10-2009, 10:01 AM
And what do FA's want most?

Not base salary.

Guaranteed money. Signing bonuses.

Guys like Gross, Haynesworth, Suggs, etc are going to command $20-$25M in guaranteed money. Which means you have to be SMART in who you sign to those types of deals.

They want money now. They don't care where it comes from. You could give him a base salary of 20 million his first year.

Mr. Laz
01-10-2009, 10:05 AM
As good as Gross is, Branden Albert has the potetial to be better.

You can find quality RTs in the 2nd, third, fourth and fifth rounds.

Branden Albert played great last year while learning on the job.

I just don't get why people want to just move him.

It's fucking stupid.
i never said i wanted to move him, dickweasel


i said ...... "not unless they plan to use Gross at LT and move Albert to RT"

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 10:05 AM
They want money now. They don't care where it comes from. You could give him a base salary of 20 million his first year.

Uh, yeah, they do.

Base salary is not guaranteed.

Feel free to bookmark this thread, and when Gross, Suggs or Haynesworth (provided they actually hit the market) doesn't get over $20M in guaranteed money, you can say "I told you so."

Players want GUARANTEED money.

It's the only security they have.

Chiefnj2
01-10-2009, 10:06 AM
Uh, yeah, they do.

Base salary is not guaranteed.

Feel free to bookmark this thread, and when Gross, Suggs or Haynesworth (provided they actually hit the market) doesn't get over $20M in guaranteed money, you can say "I told you so."

Players want GUARANTEED money.

It's the only security they have.

You can give a player 20 million his first year as base salary guaranteed.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 10:08 AM
You can give a player 20 million his first year as base salary guaranteed.

And again, when and if that ever happens, feel free to let me know.

Bottom line, it doesn't.

milkman
01-10-2009, 10:08 AM
i never said i wanted to move him, dickweasel


i said ...... "not unless they plan to use Gross at LT and move Albert to RT"

No, you didn't dick breath, but it's implied (or is that inferred?).

yep ..... but you usually don't 'fish' at the tackle positions imo

a center and guard you want cheaper system guys

LT - Gross
LG - waters
C - Taylor
RG - Niswanger
RT - Albert

looks like a big upgrade over last year to me and that would allow us to focus on other areas in the immediate future.

patteeu
01-10-2009, 10:09 AM
yep ..... but you usually don't 'fish' at the tackle positions imo

a center and guard you want cheaper system guys

LT - Gross
LG - waters
C - Taylor
RG - Niswanger
RT - Albert

looks like a big upgrade over last year to me and that would allow us to focus on other areas in the immediate future.

How many teams have 1st round draft picks at both OT positions? Surely not many. Here are the starting OTs for the remaining playoff teams and the round in which they were drafted in parentheses (and the pick number of that round after the decimal point).

David Stewart - Titans RT - (round 4.12)
Michael Roos - Titans LT - (2.09)

Adam Terry - Ravens RT - (2.32)
Jared Gaither - Ravens LT - (Supplemental round 5)

Willie Colon - Steelers RT - (4.34)
Max Starks - Steelers LT - (3.12)

Jerome Clary - Chargers RT - (6.18)
Marcus McNeill - Chargers LT - (2.18)

Kareem McKenzie - Giants RT - (3.17)
David Diehl - Giants LT - (5.25)

Jon Runyan - Eagles RT - (4.14)
William Thomas - Eagles LT - (1.11)

Levi Brown - Cardinals RT - (1.05)
Mike Gandy - Cardinals LT - (3.06)

Jeff Otah - Panthers RT - (1.19)
Jordan Gross - Panthers LT - (1.08)

Disclaimer: I don't know if any of these guys are injury replacements. I got the depth chart information from today's nfl.com depth charts.

Only Carolina has 2 first rounders and since they were both early in their careers they've been relatively cheap so far. Now as the older of the two comes up for his first really big contract, they just might lose him.

Chiefnj2
01-10-2009, 10:10 AM
And again, when and if that ever happens, feel free to let me know.

Bottom line, it doesn't.

Tait got around 14-16 million when the Bears stole him from KC.

It doesn't happen because most teams want to spread it out for 5 years over the signing bonus. Most teams don't come in 30 mil under the cap. It can be done if need be.

Mr. Laz
01-10-2009, 10:14 AM
No, you didn't dick breath, but it's implied (or is that inferred?).
hey ..... if they choose to move albert then my 2nd post is the possible result.

i never implied that would be my choice in fact i said "NOt ..... unless they plan to move albert"


you just wanted to bitch

the Talking Can
01-10-2009, 10:20 AM
How many teams have 1st round draft picks at both OT positions? Surely not many. Here are the starting OTs for the remaining playoff teams and the round in which they were drafted in parentheses (and the pick number of that round after the decimal point).

David Stewart - Titans RT - (round 4.12)
Michael Roos - Titans LT - (2.09)

Adam Terry - Ravens RT - (2.32)
Jared Gaither - Ravens LT - (Supplemental round 5)

Willie Colon - Steelers RT - (4.34)
Max Starks - Steelers LT - (3.12)

Jerome Clary - Chargers RT - (6.18)
Marcus McNeill - Chargers LT - (2.18)

Kareem McKenzie - Giants RT - (3.17)
David Diehl - Giants LT - (5.25)

Jon Runyan - Eagles RT - (4.14)
William Thomas - Eagles LT - (1.11)

Levi Brown - Cardinals RT - (1.05)
Mike Gandy - Cardinals LT - (3.06)

Jeff Otah - Panthers RT - (1.19)
Jordan Gross - Panthers LT - (1.08)

Disclaimer: I don't know if any of these guys are injury replacements. I got the depth chart information from today's nfl.com depth charts.

Only Carolina has 2 first rounders and since they were both early in their careers they've been relatively cheap so far. Now as the older of the two comes up for his first really big contract, they just might lose him.


that should be eye-opening...you just don't burn back to back 1st on OL....good teams find OL everywhere

as an aside, I think the only 1st rounder on the Giants OL is Snee, a guard...he should be remembered by Chiefs fans for whipping Sims so bad in a preseason game (Snee was a rookie that year, 04) that Whitlock wrote about it declaring Sims a hopeless bust...iirc....

* edit - i checked, Snee was the 2nd pick in the 2nd round

chiefsngop
01-10-2009, 11:16 AM
that should be eye-opening...you just don't burn back to back 1st on OL....good teams find OL everywhere

as an aside, I think the only 1st rounder on the Giants OL is Snee, a guard...he should be remembered by Chiefs fans for whipping Sims so bad in a preseason game (Snee was a rookie that year, 04) that Whitlock wrote about it declaring Sims a hopeless bust...iirc....

* edit - i checked, Snee was the 2nd pick in the 2nd round

I like this post.

We need a right side O-line, no doubt about it.

But I would hate to see the Chiefs start focusing on one position in the draft year after year. We've already lived throught that with the D-line positions.

If the new regime wants to prove their player assessment abilities, find us a solid O-lineman in the 3rd to 5th rounds, it can be done, and has been done.

beach tribe
01-10-2009, 11:21 AM
I really think we should have picked Gaither in the sup. draft.

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 11:54 AM
i never said i wanted to move him, dickweasel


i said ...... "not unless they plan to use Gross at LT and move Albert to RT"

Who from the Chiefs organization has EVER indicated that the Chiefs would move Albert to Left Tackle?

Oh, that's right. NO ONE.

Only dumbfucks with too much time on their hands and no understanding of line play.

YOU opened the door to this idiocy and deserve any negative remarks that come your way.

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 11:56 AM
As good as Gross is, Branden Albert has the potetial to be better.

You can find quality RTs in the 2nd, third, fourth and fifth rounds.

Branden Albert played great last year while learning on the job.

I just don't get why people want to just move him.

It's fucking stupid.

QFT

Thig Lyfe
01-10-2009, 11:58 AM
SIGN HIM SCOTT!!!

aturnis
01-10-2009, 12:20 PM
Why is everyone on this board so worried about money? The Chiefs have something like $40,000,000 remaining under the salary cap, and Clark Hunt is a billionaire. What a loser's mentality. I bet you don't go on the Cowboys board and hear that players are too expensive. If the guy is worth the money, pay him.

The Cowboys are sitting at home...

John_Wayne
01-10-2009, 12:34 PM
The chances are nil.

He will command near left tackle money.

We'll need to spend some big money on a RT because Tebow is a lefty. :D

aturnis
01-10-2009, 12:34 PM
Who from the Chiefs organization has EVER indicated that the Chiefs would move Albert to Left Tackle?

Oh, that's right. NO ONE.

Only dumb****s with too much time on their hands and no understanding of line play.

YOU opened the door to this idiocy and deserve any negative remarks that come your way.

Whatever Dane...Laz is right, you and Milkman are wrong. He did nothing but say, "That is stupid and would not happen unless they plan to move Albert to RT." I read the post and could sense a doubt that such a move would ever take place. Get off your high fucking horses.

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 12:44 PM
Whatever Dane...Laz is right, you and Milkman are wrong. He did nothing but say, "That is stupid and would not happen unless they plan to move Albert to RT." I read the post and could sense a doubt that such a move would ever take place. Get off your high fucking horses.

This post is worthless

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 12:49 PM
And again, when and if that ever happens, feel free to let me know.

Bottom line, it doesn't.

John Tait

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 12:53 PM
The Cowboys are sitting at home...

...polishing their 5 Superbowl trophies.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 12:59 PM
John Tait

$20M and little to no signing bonus?

Try again.

aturnis
01-10-2009, 01:17 PM
This post is worthless

This poster is worthless.

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 01:59 PM
This poster is worthless.

Worthless?

Do you know what's worthless, Champ?

Using the #15 pick overall in the NFL Draft on a Left Tackle, then moving that Left Tackle to Right Tackle to make room for an over-priced, 28 year-old free agent.

That's worthless. And fucking stupid to boot.

But go ahead and continue to endorse the idea.

It just makes you seem dumber and dumber with each post.

bowener
01-10-2009, 02:25 PM
I didnt read the whole thread bc there is brown lava racing through my bowels right now, so this has to be quick.

Id love to sign Khalif Barnes as RT. I if remember right he plays LT for the Jags this year, but did a bad job. He is young, 26, and big, 6'5" and 325 lbs. From what Ive read, he would make a great RT, especially for the running game. I think he would be a great player to go after especially if he was not good at LT since he cannot demand a ton of money since most teams wont be offering large chunks of change for his services at LT, but instead RT. It would be a great set of T's for us possibly, and hopefully solve that fucking problem for the next 5-8 years.

I dont really give a shit about DMac, but maybe he can play RG good. He seems to have trouble dealing with people in space, so maybe moving to the inside would be a better place for him. He could go there and play and allow us to draft a 3rd or 4th round RG to plug in there half way through the season, or next season if DMac does alright.

Niswanger isn't the answer at Center apparently, so I guess draft, or FA. Who is out there in FA that is a viable option?

KCChiefsMan
01-10-2009, 04:27 PM
I don't care if you are paying him LT money, we need a good o-line. Then we may actually be able to run to the right

KChiefs1
01-10-2009, 07:01 PM
to have a great team you have to have a great OL.

Basileus777
01-10-2009, 07:10 PM
to have a great team you have to have a great OL.

A good oline yes. But you don't need big money/or draft picks invested in it.

Gross is an excellent RT who is also a solid LT. But he's going to want LT money, which is too much when he would play RT for us.

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 07:11 PM
$20M and little to no signing bonus?

Try again.

$20M and little to no signing bonus?

Try again.

It was about $12M. In 2004 cap dollars, that would be almost the exact same as giving someone $20M today.

Nobody said anything about no signing bonus, but the giant first year contract is essentially the same thing as a signing bonus. Your post saying that a player wouldn't take that contract because a signing bonus is guaranteed and the first year salary isn't is asinine.

Do you really think that Julius Peppers is worried that the Chiefs would sign him to a $20M first year salary and cut him, thus denying him his money?

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 07:14 PM
It was about $12M. In 2004 cap dollars, that would be almost the exact same as giving someone $20M today.

Nobody said anything about no signing bonus, but the giant first year contract is essentially the same thing as a signing bonus. Your post saying that a player wouldn't take that contract because a signing bonus is guaranteed and the first year salary isn't is asinine.

Do you really think that Julius Peppers is worried that the Chiefs would sign him to a $20M first year salary and cut him, thus denying him his money?


I'm saying that anyone with any common fucking sense realizes that it's not going to happen.

In all the free agent transactions that have taken place in this league, you can come up with ONE that fits your argument.

It's beyond rare.

kstater
01-10-2009, 07:17 PM
...polishing their 5 Superbowl trophies.

The Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in almost as long as the Chiefs

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 07:30 PM
The Cowboys haven't won a playoff game in almost as long as the Chiefs

So the franchises are equal?

The Cardinals have won a playoff game more recently than the Patriots, but I don't think Bob Kraft is going to try to rebuild his franchise in their image.

The point is that successful teams don't get all misty-eyed when faced with the prospect of spending money to land the most talented players, especially when they have $40M of cap space.

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 07:32 PM
I'm saying that anyone with any common ****ing sense realizes that it's not going to happen.

In all the free agent transactions that have taken place in this league, you can come up with ONE that fits your argument.

It's beyond rare.

It's not that rare for a team to front-load a contract when they have more current cap room than they expect to have in the future, but you did a fine job of moving the goalposts.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 07:35 PM
It's not that rare for a team to front-load a contract when they have more current cap room than they expect to have in the future, but you did a fine job of moving the goalposts.

I didn't move shit.

You can't seem to accept the fact that in this day, a player looking for that big FA contract isn't going to accept a front-loaded contract in place of a signing bonus.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

bdeg
01-10-2009, 07:59 PM
I didn't move shit.

You can't seem to accept the fact that in this day, a player looking for that big FA contract isn't going to accept a front-loaded contract in place of a signing bonus.

I don't know how to make it any clearer.

Why not both? A decent signing bonus with a front-loaded salary

bdeg
01-10-2009, 08:00 PM
I believe you can also pay out the signing bonus whenever you want. Most teams spread it out, but we shouldn't have to.

Douche Baggins
01-10-2009, 08:00 PM
Gross would cost too much money to be a stopgap RT for a few years.

OnTheWarpath58
01-10-2009, 08:01 PM
Why not both? A decent signing bonus with a front-loaded salary

A top tier FA isn't going to come here for a front loaded contract and a $15M signing bonus, when other teams are offering the $25M guaranteed guys like Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs are likely to get. (If they even hit the FA market)

bdeg
01-10-2009, 08:03 PM
A top tier FA isn't going to come here for a front loaded contract and a $15M signing bonus, when other teams are offering the $25M guaranteed guys like Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs are likely to get. (If they even hit the FA market)

I believe he will be over priced.

That said, the contract could be comparable and still be front-loaded. Obvoiusly a contract that pays them less is worth less.

bdeg
01-10-2009, 08:04 PM
Who said a front loaded contract couldnt include 25m guaranteed?

Cornstock
01-10-2009, 08:45 PM
Having soo much salary cap room available I am of the opinion that we should spend some of it (not all, but some). Maybe not necessarily at RT with Gross, but if I were Clark Hunt and I were serious about competing, that money would be burning a hole in my pocket.

I know we're a long way from it, especially because we're such a young team, but I don't want the Chiefs to be like the Royals with their joke of a pay roll.

Saul Good
01-10-2009, 09:03 PM
A top tier FA isn't going to come here for a front loaded contract and a $15M signing bonus, when other teams are offering the $25M guaranteed guys like Peppers, Haynesworth and Suggs are likely to get. (If they even hit the FA market)

A $15M signing bonus along with a $15M first year base salary would be a better offer than a $25M signing bonus and a $5M base salary.

KCChiefsFan88
01-10-2009, 09:52 PM
Considering all the needs the Chiefs have, what is the point in spending big $$$ on a left tackle when the Chiefs already have their LT of the future in place?

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 10:19 PM
Considering all the needs the Chiefs have, what is the point in spending big $$$ on a left tackle when the Chiefs already have their LT of the future in place?

People are fucking stupid.

Get over it.

bdeg
01-10-2009, 10:23 PM
Its not about signing a LT. If you read the top it says he could be our solution at RT. It's widely known the panthers hoped to draft a LT and move Gross back to RT. I don't know if the rest of the NFL regards him as a probowl LT, and we need a right tackle. I like the idea of Khalif Barnes though.

milkman
01-10-2009, 10:34 PM
Its not about signing a LT. If you read the top it says he could be our solution at RT. It's widely known the panthers hoped to draft a LT and move Gross back to RT. I don't know if the rest of the NFL regards him as a probowl LT, and we need a right tackle. I like the idea of Khalif Barnes though.

Well, since Gross was voted into the Pro Bowl, and he made the All Pro team as a LT, then I think there might be a slim chance that the rest of the NFL "regards him as a probowl LT".

But, hey.
Maybe I'm reading too much into those honors.

aturnis
01-10-2009, 11:04 PM
Worthless?

Do you know what's worthless, Champ?

Using the #15 pick overall in the NFL Draft on a Left Tackle, then moving that Left Tackle to Right Tackle to make room for an over-priced, 28 year-old free agent.

That's worthless. And ****ing stupid to boot.

But go ahead and continue to endorse the idea.

It just makes you seem dumber and dumber with each post.

Yeah, it is, and not one single person insinuated that it would be a good idea to do that.

aturnis
01-10-2009, 11:10 PM
So the franchises are equal?

Right now...they are both sitting at home. So if the goal is to win superbowls, then yes, they are equal.

I don't think you can really say that every Cowboys superbowl team throughout their long history has leaned heavily on free agency.

beach tribe
01-10-2009, 11:11 PM
Well, since Gross was voted into the Pro Bowl, and he made the All Pro team as a LT, then I think there might be a slim chance that the rest of the NFL "regards him as a probowl LT".

But, hey.
Maybe I'm reading too much into those honors.

No matter how many times I come here, I'm still amazed at how many people have absolutely no clue.

aturnis
01-10-2009, 11:21 PM
No matter how many times I come here, I'm still amazed at how many people have absolutely no clue.

I'm amazed at how retarded guys like Dane are. The whole putting words in guys mouth's thing. Fucking asinine. Pay no mind to the fact that I haven't even stated where I stand on solving the RT issue. Just pick a place to put me, and then attack. Without even reading my new posts, just assume they are contrary to your own opinion and punch your keys with malice force. What an ass...

BTW....I'd like to draft a RT somewhere around the fourth.

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 11:25 PM
I'm amazed at how retarded guys like Dane are. The whole putting words in guys mouth's thing. Fucking asinine. Pay no mind to the fact that I haven't even stated where I stand on solving the RT issue. Just pick a place to put me, and then attack. Without even reading my new posts, just assume they are contrary to your own opinion and punch your keys with malice force. What an ass...

BTW....I'd like to draft a RT somewhere around the fourth.

Well honestly, I think your posts are pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

Retard.

And furthermore, GFY, n00b.

You're a fucking MORON.

AND you add absolutey NOTHING to the conversation.

Thanks.

cmh6476
01-10-2009, 11:34 PM
can we hope gross is franchised so peppers becomes available?

Valiant
01-10-2009, 11:34 PM
I believe you can also pay out the signing bonus whenever you want. Most teams spread it out, but we shouldn't have to.

Really?? Didn't we have a big surplus on the Chiefs the last two years??? Someone should have told them they could spend it towards bonuses..

DaneMcCloud
01-10-2009, 11:39 PM
can we hope gross is franchised so peppers becomes available?

Peppers will be too old.

AND he's sucked until this year (contract year).

He was a big factor tonight, eh? :shake:

NO to Peppers.

Wilson8
01-11-2009, 01:21 AM
The Chiefs need to improve their offensive line from center over to the right tackle. Signing a free agent right tackle would help to rebuild the Kansas City offensive line. Also to improve the line, KC should draft a center in the 2nd or 3rd round. There are several good center prospects that could be drafted. Alex Mack California, Max Unger Oregon, Jonathan Lugis Arkansas, Antoine Caldwell Alabama, or Eric Wood Louisville are all rated somewhere between late 1st to 3rd round draft picks. There are 3 other free agent right tackles besides Jordan Gross that are possibilities, MIA - Vernon Carey, GB - Mark Tauscher, and CIN – Stacy Andrews. They have several players on their current roster which should be given a chance at right guard, Damion McIntosh, Rudy Niswanger, Herb Taylor, and Wade Smith. McIntosh has struggled with speed rushers and moving him inside might help him. Niswanger has been getting over powered at center and moving him to guard might allow him to focus on the block rather than getting the ball to the QB. Taylor has been playing tackle but maybe his best position is at guard. So although Jordan Gross might not be the answer, signing a free agent right tackle could improve the KC line into a solid unit.

Wilson8
01-11-2009, 01:40 AM
Another possibility is to go after a free agent center and draft a right tackle in the 2nd or 3rd round. There is not as good of a selection of free agent centers as there are right tackles though. Most of the free agents that I see have split time between guard and center like SF – Eric Heitmann or CLV – Seth McKinney.

Wilson8
01-11-2009, 01:46 AM
Last year the Chiefs attempted to improve at center by getting a free agent. They wanted Jeff Faine that ended up in Tampa and they also looked at Justin Hartwig who signed with Pittsburgh.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-11-2009, 01:55 AM
As good as Gross is, Branden Albert has the potetial to be better.

You can find quality RTs in the 2nd, third, fourth and fifth rounds.

Branden Albert played great last year while learning on the job.

I just don't get why people want to just move him.

It's fucking stupid.

And Gross isn't that good. He's a product of two great backs and a fucking phenomenal line of road graders that look far better than they are when they run 60% of the time.

He's a RT.

Hell, the Chiefs would be better off taking Andre Smith or Oher (provided Stafford or Sanchez (downgrade) aren't there) than signing Jordan Gross, and drafting either one of those guys would be stupid, as they'd have probably 80 million in two tackles.

beach tribe
01-11-2009, 03:05 AM
Well honestly, I think your posts are pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

Retard.

And furthermore, GFY, n00b.

You're a ****ing MORON.

AND you add absolutey NOTHING to the conversation.

Thanks.

And no matter how many times I come here, I'm still amazed at how raged some people get over a discussion. People are going to have different opinions.

bdeg
01-11-2009, 06:38 AM
Well, since Gross was voted into the Pro Bowl, and he made the All Pro team as a LT, then I think there might be a slim chance that the rest of the NFL "regards him as a probowl LT".

But, hey.
Maybe I'm reading too much into those honors.

He had a great season and stepped up for his contract year. He hadn't played like a probowl lt (edit: or even a good one!)in the past. If this were another conversation that would lead people, including nfl people, to think he's currently over-rated.

bdeg
01-11-2009, 07:06 AM
milkman probowl is decided 2/3's by fans and media, and ap is 100% media. You have no idea what the nfl thinks. Please take the arrogance out of the thread.

milkman
01-11-2009, 07:15 AM
milkman probowl is decided 2/3's by fans and media, and ap is 100% media. You have no idea what the nfl thinks. Please take the arrogance out of the thread.

JFC, did you get butt hurt?

He's a Pro Bowl and All Pro LT, regardless of who votes.

When/if he hits the open market he's going to command LT money, and someone is going to pay it.

bdeg
01-11-2009, 07:21 AM
You're probably right. But I don't think he'll get pro-bowl lt money. Flozell Adams was voted to the probowl for godsake

bdeg
01-11-2009, 07:26 AM
Amazing how little performance seems to impact probowl voting:

1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack
2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER
3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11)
3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks
3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury)
7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks
8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games)
8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games)
8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER
8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15)
13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks [B]PRO BOWLER
13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER
15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks
15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games)
15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts)
18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games)
20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks
21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game)
21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks
23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER
24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13)
27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks
28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks
29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks
30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks
T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks
T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games)

milkman
01-11-2009, 07:32 AM
Amazing how little performance seems to impact probowl voting:

1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack
2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER
3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11)
3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks
3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury)
7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks
8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games)
8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games)
8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER
8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15)
13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks [B]PRO BOWLER
13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER
15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks
15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games)
15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts)
18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games)
20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks
21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game)
21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks
23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER
24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13)
27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks
28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks
29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks
30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks
T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks
T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games)

No question that the Pro Bowl vote is a popularity contest among the fans, and that there's an east coast bias in the media.

But the fact remains, he got the accolades and that will affect how he is viewed in free agency.

bdeg
01-11-2009, 07:36 AM
I'm just questioning the value of such accolades in the view of the people in charge. They know it's a popularity contest too.

But it only takes one team.

And no I didnt get butt-hurt but ya it was a bit of an overreaction. Just been a rough couple days. I need a smoke

bdeg
01-11-2009, 08:21 AM
Jags fans believe Khalif Barnes will be a free agent. He is young and was OK at LT, should be decent on the right and not too expensive.

NaptownChief
01-11-2009, 09:09 AM
Amazing how little performance seems to impact probowl voting:

1. Ryan Clady, Denver, 0.5 sack
2. Michael Roos, Tennessee, 1 sack PRO BOWLER
3-T. Tony Ugoh, Indianapolis, 2 sacks* (Started 11)
3-T. Tra Thomas, Philadelphia, 2 sacks
3-T. Jared Gaither, Baltimore, 2 sacks* (He missed first quarter of Philadelphia game because of a shoulder injury)
7. Jake Long, Miami, 2.5 sacks
8-T. Marcus McNeill, San Diego, 3 sacks* (13 games)
8-T. Chris Samuels, Washington, 3 sacks* (Only appeared in 12 games)
8-T. Jordan Gross, Carolina, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game) PRO BOWLER
8-T. Jammal Brown, New Orleans, 3 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
8-T. Todd Weiner, Atlanta, 3 sacks* (Started 10 games and appeared in 15)
13-T. Joe Thomas, Cleveland, 3.5 sacks [b]PRO BOWLER
13-T. Walter Jones, Seattle, 3.5 sacks* (12 games) PRO BOWLER
15-T. D'Brickashaw Ferguson, NY Jets, 4 sacks
15-T. Bryant McKinnie, Minnesota, 4 sacks* (11 games)
15-T. Max Starks, Pittsburgh, 4 sacks* (10 starts)
18. Brandon Albert, Kansas City, 4.5 sacks* (Missed 1 game)
19. Levi Jones, Cincinnati, 5.5 sacks* (10 games)
20. Mike Gandy, Arizona, 6.25 sacks
21-T. Chad Clifton, Green Bay, 6.5 sacks* (missed 1 game)
21-T. David Diehl, NY Giants, 6.5 sacks
23. Flozell Adams, Dallas, 7.25 PRO BOWLER
24-T. Khalif Barnes, Jacksonville, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Matt Light, New England, 7.5 sacks
24-T. Kwame Harris, 7.5 sacks* (Started 11, appeared in 13)
27. Donald Penn, Tampa Bay, 8 sacks
28. Joe Staley, San Francisco, 8.5 sacks
29. Jeff Backus, Detroit, 9.25 sacks
30. John St. Clair, Chicago, 9.75 sacks
T-31. Duane Brown, Houston, 11.5 sacks
T-31. Jason Peters, Buffalo, 11.5 sacks* PRO BOWLER (13 games)


This goes to show how stats can be really misleading. Having watched all the Colts games closely and several of them in person I can say Tony Ugoh's stats are very misleading. You would think he had a great year based on this list but the reality is he was the weakest link on the Colts line. Between false starts and holding penalties he put the Colts in a lot of bad situations. One game against the Texans I think he got penalties on three consecutive plays.

bdeg
01-11-2009, 09:22 AM
Wow. It would be great if the stats included all penalties, AND % of passing plays when the LT has help.

Those would be very telling stats.

Also knockdowns allowed. The qb may have great pocket awareness and consistently throw it away, as opposed to the huard.

NaptownChief
01-11-2009, 09:40 AM
Wow. It would be great if the stats included all penalties, AND % of passing plays when the LT has help.

Those would be very telling stats.

Also knockdowns allowed. The qb may have great pocket awareness and consistently throw it away, as opposed to the huard.


That is definitely a big factor as well. Ugoh sucks but Peyton Manning knows where to go quickly and unloads it much faster than most QB's thus making Ugoh and the rest of the Colts line statistically look better than they are. If you look at sacks allowed stats you would assume the Colts line is pretty good but you only have to look at their running game to realize how they actually suck and Manning covers up most of their mistakes in the passing game.

milkman
01-11-2009, 10:17 AM
That is definitely a big factor as well. Ugoh sucks but Peyton Manning knows where to go quickly and unloads it much faster than most QB's thus making Ugoh and the rest of the Colts line statistically look better than they are. If you look at sacks allowed stats you would assume the Colts line is pretty good but you only have to look at their running game to realize how they actually suck and Manning covers up most of their mistakes in the passing game.

Did you get lost?

milkman
01-11-2009, 10:19 AM
Wow. It would be great if the stats included all penalties, AND % of passing plays when the LT has help.

Those would be very telling stats.

Also knockdowns allowed. The qb may have great pocket awareness and consistently throw it away, as opposed to the huard.

There is a sight that does list penalties for O-Linemen.

I'll see if I can find it sometime for you.

But I believe that Albert was penalized only once (false Start) all season.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 10:20 AM
should be decent on the right

Is that the goal? "Decent"?

The Chiefs can find "decent" in the 5th round. Hell, Carl Nicks was a 5th rounder and he started for one of the best offenses in the league.

Personally, I don't see any reason to sign a RT or RG until after the draft. I'd rather have a young offensive line than one that's held together with string and cheese.

Mr. Laz
01-11-2009, 10:22 AM
Well honestly, I think your posts are pretty much the bottom of the barrel.

Retard.

And furthermore, GFY, n00b.

You're a fucking MORON.

AND you add absolutey NOTHING to the conversation.

Thanks.
well isn't this the pot calling kettle black

you're nothing but a jackass that goes around yelling at people. In fact that seems to be what you get off on.


if someone doesn't write something you can yell about you just make something up.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 10:24 AM
well isn't this the pot calling kettle black

you're nothing but a jackass that goes around yelling at people. In fact that seems to be what you get off on.


if someone doesn't write something you can yell about you just make something up.

Go fuck your mother.

Again.

You're nothing but a moronic child that absolutely makes up shit on a daily basis. Your biggest contribution is to link pictures of hot chicks and you add absolutely ludicrous "insight" to football threads. Hence "maybe if we move Albert to right tackle, we can sign Gross and have him play left tackle".

Fucking stupid and retarded.

Good job.

Mr. Laz
01-11-2009, 10:27 AM
Go fuck your mother.

Again.
eat a bag of shit, Universal Sucker of Cock asshole

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 10:27 AM
eat a bag of shit, Universal Sucker of Cock asshole

Wow, what a command of the English language you have, Laz!

:rolleyes:

Mr. Laz
01-11-2009, 10:30 AM
Go fuck your mother.

Again.

You're nothing but a moronic child that absolutely makes up shit on a daily basis. Your biggest contribution is to link pictures of hot chicks and you add absolutely ludicrous "insight" to football threads. Hence "maybe if we move Albert to right tackle, we can sign Gross and have him play left tackle".

Fucking stupid and retarded.

Good job.
blah,blah,blah scream ... blah,blah,blah

nice edit ....... maybe you can keeping editing your post so that you have an entire paragraph of you screaming like the petulant child.

you know, i think you told virtually every poster on this board that they are an "idiot and contribute nothing". At some point the common denominator becomes the man in the mirror.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 10:32 AM
blah,blah,blah scream ... blah,blah,blah

nice edit ....... maybe you can keeping editing your post so that you have an entire paragraph of you screaming like the petulant child.

you know, i think you told virtually every poster on this board that they are an "idiot and contribute nothing". At some point the common denominator becomes the man in the mirror.

No, the common denominator would be people who speculate and make up shit versus people who actually discuss football.

Calling Milkman of all people wrong about the offensive line is just about as stupid as arguing defenses with Gaz.

But since you don't discuss football, I shouldn't expect you to understand.

Mr. Laz
01-11-2009, 10:36 AM
No, the common denominator would be people who speculate and make up shit versus people who actually discuss football.

Calling Milkman of all people wrong about the offensive line is just about as stupid as arguing defenses with Gaz.

But since you don't discuss football, I shouldn't expect you to understand.
you're a crying bitch and will always be a crying bitch
http://blueroof.files.wordpress.com/2008/01/mls-cry-babies.png?w=317&h=198

have someone change your diaper for chrissakes

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 10:38 AM
blah,blah,blah scream ... blah,blah,blah

nice edit ....... maybe you can keeping editing your post so that you have an entire paragraph of you screaming like the petulant child.

you know, i think you told virtually every poster on this board that they are an "idiot and contribute nothing". At some point the common denominator becomes the man in the mirror.

ROFL

"Petulant child"? You're leaving neg rep instead of dealing with this in front of everyone, but I'm the "child"?

Get over yourself.

JFC.

All of this because you came up with some asinine notion that the Chiefs would sign Jordan Gross to a mega contract and move their first year left tackle to right tackle to accommodate that signing?

Talk about childish.

milkman
01-11-2009, 10:47 AM
Jags fans believe Khalif Barnes will be a free agent. He is young and was OK at LT, should be decent on the right and not too expensive.

Barnes is big, strong, and fast and athletic for a man his size, and will probably be an outstanding RT.

However, he has started on the left since he came into the league, so he will also command LT money.

Perhaps a smaller contract than Gross, but LT money, nonetheless.

But he just might be the guy I 'd try to sign to a front loaded contract with a reasonable signing bonus.

Mr. Laz
01-11-2009, 10:54 AM
ROFL

"Petulant child"? You're leaving neg rep instead of dealing with this in front of everyone, but I'm the "child"?

Get over yourself.

JFC.

All of this because you came up with some asinine notion that the Chiefs would sign Jordan Gross to a mega contract and move their first year left tackle to right tackle to accommodate that signing?

Talk about childish.
you intimidate some people in to backing down with all your screaming and cussing but i got no problem telling a jackass like yourself to "eat shit and die in a fire preferrably while drinking antifreeze"


btw i disagree ...... i gave you a neg rep telling you to eat shit AND told you to eat shit in front of everyone else.

so in case you missed it you cum guzzling, mongoloid piece of crap, "eat a bag of shit"

.... see right there in front of everyone.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-11-2009, 10:55 AM
Go fuck your mother.

Again.

You're nothing but a moronic child that absolutely makes up shit on a daily basis. Your biggest contribution is to link pictures of hot chicks and you add absolutely ludicrous "insight" to football threads. Hence "maybe if we move Albert to right tackle, we can sign Gross and have him play left tackle".

Fucking stupid and retarded.

Good job.

ROFL

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-11-2009, 10:58 AM
Barnes is big, strong, and fast and athletic for a man his size, and will probably be an outstanding RT.

However, he has started on the left since he came into the league, so he will also command LT money.

Perhaps a smaller contract than Gross, but LT money, nonetheless.

But he just might be the guy I 'd try to sign to a front loaded contract with a reasonable signing bonus.

If you could do it, I could see that, but FA is out of control. Someone will give him 50-60 million.

However, you gotta love any guy who gets pulled over while driving drunk and says the following (about the cop who pulled him over) [He's] a KKK devil who hates all colored people".

To me, that's worth another 2 million just for the sake of comedy.

DaneMcCloud
01-11-2009, 11:02 AM
you intimidate some people in to backing down with all your screaming and cussing but i got no problem telling a jackass like yourself to "eat shit and die in a fire preferrably while drinking antifreeze"


btw i disagree ...... i gave you a neg rep telling you to eat shit AND told you to eat shit in front of everyone else.

so in case you missed it you cum guzzling, mongoloid piece of crap, "eat a bag of shit"

.... see right there in front of everyone.

OIC.

Thanks for pointing out the "petulant child".

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2009, 02:19 PM
Barnes is big, strong, and fast and athletic for a man his size, and will probably be an outstanding RT.

However, he has started on the left since he came into the league, so he will also command LT money.

Perhaps a smaller contract than Gross, but LT money, nonetheless.

But he just might be the guy I 'd try to sign to a front loaded contract with a reasonable signing bonus.

Charley Casserly was just on the pre-game show saying he thinks Gross will re-sign with the Panthers before the FA period starts, for over $10M per season, making him the highest paid tackle in the league.

milkman
01-11-2009, 02:22 PM
Charley Casserly was just on the pre-game show saying he thinks Gross will re-sign with the Panthers before the FA period starts, for over $10M per season, making him the highest paid tackle in the league.

That is simply too much money for a RT that plays LT capably, but is far from the best at the position.

Hamas describes his overall level of talent pretty well in his post earlier.

OnTheWarpath58
01-11-2009, 02:25 PM
That is simply too much money for a RT that plays LT capably, but is far from the best at the position.

Hamas describes his overall level of talent pretty well in his post earlier.

I agree, just wanted to point out that someone that knows quite a bit more about the NFL than we do shares your opinion about him getting paid LT money.