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View Full Version : Football Tony Dungy - HOF Coach?


Mile High Mania
01-12-2009, 03:09 PM
I'm curious... yes, he's a great coach... he has his ring and set a nice double digit winning streak in Indy, but is he a HOF coach?

I ask because many around here look at Shanahan and say "he did nothing after Elway". Well, Dungy was pretty average prior to getting Manning.

As the HC in Tampa, he was 54-42 ... a 56% winning percentage. They never won the title until Dungy left and Gruden took over.

Dungy takes over a Colts team with Manning in year 5 of his career and proceeds to go 75-27... a 74% winning percentage.

Did Manning make Dungy? That is one hell of an increase in winning percentatges... The Colts had a bad 2001 season, but in the the previous 2, they won 10+ games each time with Mora.

Sure, Dungy brought some discipline and did well, but is he a HOF coach?

kstater
01-12-2009, 03:10 PM
I think he's a sure fire HOF coach. Yeah Manning brought a lot, but he's still the coach with that record.

Mile High Mania
01-12-2009, 03:11 PM
I'm not suggesting he's not a HOF coach... just asking the question.

DaFace
01-12-2009, 03:12 PM
I'd give him a 90% chance of getting in at some point, though not necessarily first-ballot.

raybec 4
01-12-2009, 03:13 PM
He's won one superbowl. Granted he was the first black coach to win one but is that enough?

DaFace
01-12-2009, 03:13 PM
Oh, and as for the "did Manning make Dungy" question, I don't think you can ever separate the coach from the quarterback in these types of situations. The same could be said of Shanahan. He's a great coach, but he hasn't done anything especially spectacular without Elway.

Mile High Mania
01-12-2009, 03:13 PM
I think he's getting in on the first ballot for the simple fact that he has the wins, the title and he was the first african-american HC to win the title. I was just curious to hear the thoughts of others...

Mile High Mania
01-12-2009, 03:14 PM
Oh, and as for the "did Manning make Dungy" question, I don't think you can ever separate the coach from the quarterback in these types of situations. The same could be said of Shanahan. He's a great coach, but he hasn't done anything especially spectacular without Elway.

And, that's why I asked... I know how you guys feel about Shanahan. :eek:

Fruit Ninja
01-12-2009, 03:15 PM
He's going to get in. The first black HC is enough, but he also has the WP to back it up.

DaFace
01-12-2009, 03:18 PM
And, that's why I asked... I know how you guys feel about Shanahan. :eek:

Well, if we take off the homer glasses, Shanahan's a no-brainer for the HOF too. I think that there's a little bit of luck required to be in the Hall.

As much as we'd like to think that it's based purely on the skills of the player (or coach), those skills go largely unnoticed unless you're on a good team. That typically means that dynastic teams have a bunch of players who get in that may not have been all that special had they been on crappier teams. Unless you're Barry Sanders.

Scorp
01-12-2009, 03:18 PM
he also has the WP to back it up.

White Power????:shrug:

OnTheWarpath58
01-12-2009, 03:19 PM
I wonder where Hootie stands on this issue?

raybec 4
01-12-2009, 03:19 PM
Well, if we take off the homer glasses, Shanahan's a no-brainer for the HOF too. I think that there's a little bit of luck required to be in the Hall.

As much as we'd like to think that it's based purely on the skills of the player (or coach), those skills go largely unnoticed unless you're on a good team. That typically means that dynastic teams have a bunch of players who get in that may not have been all that special had they been on crappier teams. Unless you're Barry Sanders.

Or Tony G.

Micjones
01-12-2009, 03:20 PM
*He's won a Superbowl
*Only coach to have made the post-season 10 years straight
*Winningest coach for both Tampa Bay and Indianapolis
*Career winning percentage of 64%

I think he's in...

Hoover
01-12-2009, 03:21 PM
I think he's in especially when you consider that he built that Tampa team.

Basileus777
01-12-2009, 03:23 PM
I wouldn't put him in the HOF because he's mostly been a failure in the postseason. He had a decade coaching a top 5 qb all time his in prime and other than one fluke year the Colts underachieved in the postseason. He couldn't win it all in Tampa either, but Gruden did it with the same team.

Micjones
01-12-2009, 03:24 PM
I wouldn't put him in the HOF because he's mostly been a failure in the postseason. He had a decade coaching a top 5 qb all time his in prime and other than one fluke year the Colts underachieved in the postseason. He couldn't win it all in Tampa either, but Gruden did it with the same team.

Dungy gets no credit for having built that team?

cdcox
01-12-2009, 03:41 PM
*He's won a Superbowl
*Only coach to have made the post-season 10 years straight
*Winningest coach for both Tampa Bay and Indianapolis
*Career winning percentage of 64%

I think he's in...

I agree. Let's look at Shanahan:

*Has two Super Bowl titles.
*Career winning percentage of .598 overall .616 in Denver
*Cheated the salary cap in order to win his Super Bowls

I think he gets in with an asterisks next to his name.

Fruit Ninja
01-12-2009, 03:41 PM
White Power????:shrug:

lol, Winning Percentage.

Fruit Ninja
01-12-2009, 03:42 PM
The Rat gets in as well.

cdcox
01-12-2009, 03:42 PM
Dungy gets no credit for having built that team?

Of course he does.

I'm not a fan of Dungy as a head coach, but his accomplishments warrant the Hall, IMO.

Reerun_KC
01-12-2009, 03:52 PM
Not a chance...

Rain Man
01-12-2009, 03:55 PM
I think with coaches longevity is a big deal. Longevity as in 20 years of excellence. Landry, Shula, etc. Also innovation. I don't think Dungy meets that first requirement, does he? And I'm not sure how he really changed the game via his coaching. He didn't invent the flex defense or the west coast offense or shifting backs. He just told his incredible quarterback to throw it.

Nah, Dungy doesn't meet the criteria. And I sure hope that "being the first black coach to win the Super Bowl" is considered a substitute for those things, because it's not.

Fruit Ninja
01-12-2009, 04:03 PM
I think with coaches longevity is a big deal. Longevity as in 20 years of excellence. Landry, Shula, etc. Also innovation. I don't think Dungy meets that first requirement, does he? And I'm not sure how he really changed the game via his coaching. He didn't invent the flex defense or the west coast offense or shifting backs. He just told his incredible quarterback to throw it.

Nah, Dungy doesn't meet the criteria. And I sure hope that "being the first black coach to win the Super Bowl" is considered a substitute for those things, because it's not.

Well, he did insert the tampa 2 which is a modified version of the cover 2 we all know and for a while every team was trying to copy that. He's going to get in.

Christofire
01-12-2009, 04:04 PM
I say yes, Dungy makes the hall of Fame. Not just for his coaching accomplishments, though, which are significant. I don't think voters will be able to separate his reputation as a classy, thinking man's coach and one of the great role models in NFL history from his statistical accomplishments. He did it his way, and succeeded.

Rain Man
01-12-2009, 04:13 PM
Well, he did insert the tampa 2 which is a modified version of the cover 2 we all know and for a while every team was trying to copy that. He's going to get in.

Really? I didn't know that.

However, it apparently only works in Tampa, so I'm not sure if it counts.

doomy3
01-12-2009, 04:21 PM
yes, no question

RJ
01-12-2009, 04:29 PM
Yes, Tony Dungy will be and should be a HOF coach.

He has an excellent W/L ratio, coached a SB champion and was co-inventor with Kiffin of the Tampa 2 defense.

keg in kc
01-12-2009, 04:31 PM
No question he will. 10 consecutive playoff appearances, a championship and the only coach in NFL history with 6 consecutive 12-win seasons.

Hoover
01-12-2009, 05:39 PM
Compare Tom Coughlin to Dungy

I don't think Coughlin is a HOF HC, so if thats the case what is the difference between him and Dungy.

Looks like I changed my mind...

FringeNC
01-12-2009, 05:41 PM
He's a lock.

cardken
01-12-2009, 05:49 PM
He's won one superbowl. Granted he was the first black coach to win one but is that enough?

That in itself will get him P.C.and all. Not that his accomplishments are'nt enough

KCBOSS1
01-12-2009, 06:09 PM
Absolutely no question, a hall of fame coach. The first coach ever to enter the playoffs for 10 strait years....10 STRAIT YEARS! I personally think that his ability to turn Tampa Bay out of a totally losing culture is more of a credit than what he has done in Indianapolis.

Jerm
01-12-2009, 06:10 PM
Yeah no doubt he's a HOF coach...should probably get in on how he turned Tampa Bay around lol.

Bane
01-12-2009, 06:11 PM
He's a lock.

Agreed:banghead:

JASONSAUTO
01-12-2009, 06:11 PM
Absolutely no question, a hall of fame coach. The first coach ever to enter the playoffs for 10 straight years....10 STRAIGHT YEARS! I personally think that his ability to turn Tampa Bay out of a totally losing culture is more of a credit than what he has done in Indianapolis.

FYP

kobebehar
01-12-2009, 06:14 PM
You cant hate on Coaches for having great players.

I mean, all sorts of brilliant coaches have been tied to great QBs.

Do we hate on Bill Walsh for having Montana?

No.

Because Marino never got there, and who's going to say Manning is better than Marino? You'd be insane.

Talent isnt an argument against a great coach, just look at Dallas from this year.

what his teams have made the playoffs for like 11 years?

Surefire HOF without question.

KCChiefsFan88
01-12-2009, 06:16 PM
The only blemish on his resume that I can see is the fact he had Herm on his coaching staff at one time. That is worth 70 de-merits.

whoman69
01-12-2009, 06:24 PM
Consider what Tampa was before he got there:
John McCay 45-91-1
Leeman Bennett 4-28
Ray Perkins 19-41
Richard Williamson 4-15
Sam Wyche 23-41

For him to have a winning record there is nothing short of a miracle. They couldn't get over the hump, but Gruden hasn't done much beyond that one Super Bowl season. He is only 57-55 with three losing seasons and two first round defeats since the Super Bowl.

Only coach in history with 10 straight playoff seasons. Only coach with 6 straight 12 win seasons. First black coach to win a Super Bowl.

KCBOSS1
01-12-2009, 06:25 PM
What's FYP?

Amnorix
01-12-2009, 07:43 PM
Yeah, he's probably in. One SB probably wouldn't be enough, most of the time, and it's not like he had the longest career, but between his overwhelming regular success at Indy, and turning around a historically god-awful Bucs team, I think it's enough. Probably not first ballot.

But he's amazingly popular with teh writers. Chidiha's deep-throat job on ESPN is amazing to watch. If he was writing about Belichick being so business-like if BB's son committed suicide, he would've been described as a cold-blooded monster instead of "resolute" etc.

:shrug: I think he was a top coach for alot of years. That's good enough.

Amnorix
01-12-2009, 07:45 PM
What's FYP?

"Fixed Your Post". It's when someone hits quote but then changes what you actually wrote in some manner. Usually it's to sarcastically change something you said into something that whoever is FYP'ing you think is more correct.

In this case it was a spelling nazi fixing your misspelling of the word "straight".

Very worthwhile contribution to the board there... :shake:

JASONSAUTO
01-12-2009, 07:47 PM
"Fixed Your Post". It's when someone hits quote but then changes what you actually wrote in some manner. Usually it's to sarcastically change something you said into something that whoever is FYP'ing you think is more correct.

In this case it was a spelling nazi fixing your misspelling of the word "straight".

Very worthwhile contribution to the board there... :shake:

awwww hell i was just kiddin

DT58HOF
01-12-2009, 07:52 PM
I'm curious... yes, he's a great coach... he has his ring and set a nice double digit winning streak in Indy, but is he a HOF coach?

AS WWE's Vince Mcmahaon say NO CHANCE ,NO CHANCE IN HELL!!

EyePod
01-12-2009, 08:05 PM
He's won one superbowl. Granted he was the first black coach to win one but is that enough?

Yeah, he'll get it. That's a pretty big milestone. I'm sure Barrack Obama will make the Presidential HoF too.

MahiMike
01-12-2009, 08:13 PM
Is this a serious thread? The guy was an assistant coach to the QB.

Buehler445
01-12-2009, 08:28 PM
I think he's in. I think it will ultimately because he's "the first black coach.." They will support it with his good numbers, but under the table, it will be "the first black coach.."

IMO, regardless of color, he should be in. I think what separates him is that in addition to the numbers is that he changed the way a lot of guys coach. He paved the way for guys that are not vein popping disciplinarian that can be successful. Even though the epic fail we chose is just that, Dungy paving the way for guys like that is more important than we think. They really have no disciplinary issues, and play team ball all the time. I think the NFL will place a lot of value on that in years to come.

DISCLAIMER: I am not racist. I am not suggesting he is a bad coach because he is black. I'm not suggesting that any conclusions SHOULD be drawn from his color. What I'm saying is that there probably will.

Marcellus
01-12-2009, 08:28 PM
Consider what Tampa was before he got there:
John McCay 45-91-1
Leeman Bennett 4-28
Ray Perkins 19-41
Richard Williamson 4-15
Sam Wyche 23-41

For him to have a winning record there is nothing short of a miracle. They couldn't get over the hump, but Gruden hasn't done much beyond that one Super Bowl season. He is only 57-55 with three losing seasons and two first round defeats since the Super Bowl.

Only coach in history with 10 straight playoff seasons. Only coach with 6 straight 12 win seasons. First black coach to win a Super Bowl.

QFT. He gets in for turning Tampa around alone.

I bet Marty gets in and he has no ring.

Direckshun
01-12-2009, 09:00 PM
What HOF coaches haven't had their success with HOF QBs?

Can anybody name a couple?

Basileus777
01-12-2009, 09:04 PM
What HOF coaches haven't had their success with HOF QBs?

Can anybody name a couple?

I wasn't criticizing him for having success with a HOF QB, I was criticizing for not have more playoff success. The Bucs and Colts were constant playoff underachievers under Dungy.

luv
01-12-2009, 09:10 PM
He's not completely closing the door on coaching. I'd trade Herm for him.

kysirsoze
01-12-2009, 09:23 PM
Is this a serious thread? The guy was an assistant coach to the QB.:shake:

There is no way in hell Dungy misses the HoF. I will be shocked if he isn't in as soon as he's eligible.

Fruit Ninja
01-12-2009, 10:00 PM
AS WWE's Vince Mcmahaon say NO CHANCE ,NO CHANCE IN HELL!!

Many of us think Derrick Thomas is a HoF'er as well, and that hasnt exactly happened now has it? Dungy is automatic.

boogblaster
01-12-2009, 10:08 PM
He's a damn good coach ... Who knows ... He's had a good offense for years but no defense ... I think you should have to had both ....

tk13
01-12-2009, 10:47 PM
It's a slam dunk, no doubt about it. If Dungy isn't, then there's only one HOF coach in the NFL right now and that's Belichick. He completely changed the culture in Tampa. It'd be exactly like if somebody took over the Bengals or Lions right now and turned them into contenders in two years. Most people would say that's insanity, but that's pretty much what he did.

Then he went to Indy... and people say he had Manning, but Jim Mora had Manning, and they didn't make the playoffs, that's why he got canned. Not only did they make the playoffs every year, they've probably had one of the most consistent runs in NFL history. 12 wins and a playoff appearance on a yearly basis... I think that's incredible, people act like it's a cakewalk. He's only had one losing season ever and that's his first year with Tampa. Especially in the salary cap era where everyone proclaims parity and how good teams one year will miss the playoffs and vice versa, Dungy's teams were almost 100% consistent year to year.

Reaper16
01-12-2009, 10:54 PM
Of course he'll get in. Everyone (except for super-amazing LB) gets in to the NFL HoF.
Besides, he actually earned it, for the reasons given multiple times already in this thread.

J Diddy
01-12-2009, 11:00 PM
I don't think so.

ClevelandBronco
01-13-2009, 12:26 AM
In my opinion, Tony Dungy is not Hall of Fame material.

He'll make it anyway.

ClevelandBronco
01-13-2009, 12:28 AM
...If Dungy isn't, then there's only one HOF coach in the NFL right now and that's Belichick...

And I agree with this.

Count Zarth
01-13-2009, 02:09 AM
We'll all see what a fraud Dungy was when the Colts do just as well without him...

Brock
01-13-2009, 07:08 AM
Guaranteed first ballot lock.

bkkcoh
01-13-2009, 07:37 AM
but the bucs won the SB with the team he left. there were a couple of differences, but it was basically his team.

Similar to the OSU Buckeyes winning with Tressel with John Coopers recruits....

FringeNC
01-13-2009, 09:39 AM
We'll all see what a fraud Dungy was when the Colts do just as well without him...

I'm not a huge Dungy fan, but that isn't fair. 49ers did great with Seifert for a few years. Does that diminish Walsh's legacy?

It's a lot easier to maintain it than it is to build it. We saw how well Seifert did in Carolina.

Goapics1
01-13-2009, 09:43 AM
I'm curious... yes, he's a great coach... he has his ring and set a nice double digit winning streak in Indy, but is he a HOF coach?

I ask because many around here look at Shanahan and say "he did nothing after Elway". Well, Dungy was pretty average prior to getting Manning.

As the HC in Tampa, he was 54-42 ... a 56% winning percentage. They never won the title until Dungy left and Gruden took over.

Dungy takes over a Colts team with Manning in year 5 of his career and proceeds to go 75-27... a 74% winning percentage.

Did Manning make Dungy? That is one hell of an increase in winning percentatges... The Colts had a bad 2001 season, but in the the previous 2, they won 10+ games each time with Mora.

Sure, Dungy brought some discipline and did well, but is he a HOF coach?

I'm not sure how old some of you are on here but before Dungy got to Tampa, they were a load of shit. Tampa could be compared to the current state of the Detroit Lions before he arrived. Those are HOF credentials right there.

Count Zarth
01-13-2009, 09:45 AM
I'm not a huge Dungy fan, but that isn't fair. 49ers did great with Seifert for a few years. Does that diminish Walsh's legacy?


Walsh built that offense from the ground up.

I guess we can give Dungy the credit for Indy's awesome defense. He's certainly not responsible for their offense.

Brock
01-13-2009, 09:48 AM
Walsh built that offense from the ground up.

I guess we can give Dungy the credit for Indy's awesome defense. He's certainly not responsible for their offense.

Well, real sportswriters will vote him in on the first ballot for sure, but your "professional opinion" ROFL is noted.

FringeNC
01-13-2009, 09:57 AM
Walsh built that offense from the ground up.

I guess we can give Dungy the credit for Indy's awesome defense. He's certainly not responsible for their offense.

I actually was thinking of more of his time in Tampa. The cover-2 innovation is Dungy's, is it not?

Don't get me wrong -- I think Dungy is overrated, but if Caldwell is successful that does not prove Dungy is a fraud.

Count Zarth
01-13-2009, 10:05 AM
The cover-2 innovation is Dungy's, is it not?


Fuck no.

FringeNC
01-13-2009, 10:07 AM
**** no.

Dungy and Bucs defensive coordinator Monte Kiffin developed the Cover 2 when they were together in Minnesota working for Dennis Green. Dungy made the Cover 2 a staple when he brought Kiffin to Tampa Bay and turned the Bucs into a dominating defense. Players loved it. A middle linebacker might drop back into coverage to give a Cover 3 look, but Dungy set up the defense so players made plays.

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/playoffs06/columns/story?columnist=clayton_john&id=2738645

Count Zarth
01-13-2009, 10:18 AM
Saying Dungy invented the Cover 2 is like saying Bill Walsh invented the west-coast offense.

Basileus777
01-13-2009, 11:07 AM
Even Dungy admits that they adopted the Cover 2 from the 70s Steelers. Kiffen and Dungy adapted it to their personnel in Tampa and put their own spin on it, but the cover 2 is pretty damn old.

Garcia Bronco
01-13-2009, 11:37 AM
Dungy will be in the HOF with Mike Shanahan.