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View Full Version : Chiefs How Pissed-Off Will You Be If Herm Is Still HC in 2009?


Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 12:55 PM
Poll forthcoming....

:hmmm:

sedated
01-14-2009, 12:56 PM
PIOLI!!!!!

Bowser
01-14-2009, 12:56 PM
Just make it 1000-10 for "fucking well pissed".

Dave Lane
01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
Nuclear

Crush
01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
PIOLI!!!!!


PIOLI!!!

Baconeater
01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
This pissed.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=82867&d=1226735351

Basileus777
01-14-2009, 12:57 PM
I refuse to even consider the possibility of Herm returning.

penguinz
01-14-2009, 12:58 PM
I don;t mind if he comes back as head coach as long as he is not allowed to make any decisions.

Bowser
01-14-2009, 12:58 PM
This pissed.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=82867&d=1226735351

That's this >< close to having a stroke. In other words, pretty pissed.

Donger
01-14-2009, 12:58 PM
Ever see Scanners?

SLAG
01-14-2009, 12:59 PM
I think there should be no head coach only Pioli - Herm as D.C. and Chan or someone else as O.C.

Basileus777
01-14-2009, 01:00 PM
I think there should be no head coach only Pioli - Herm as D.C. and Chan or someone else as O.C.

Dick Curl.

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 01:04 PM
Dick Curl.

:cuss:

blueballs
01-14-2009, 01:06 PM
If Herm stays
he will be Pioli's puppet
I don't think HE could handle that

Dr. Facebook Fever
01-14-2009, 01:06 PM
If Scott thinks Herm is good enough to give him another year to see the rebuild through I'll accept it with hesitation. Pioli Doesn't want to fail or even get off to a bad start, so if he's OK with Herm I'll be Ok with Herm.... for now.

keg in kc
01-14-2009, 01:09 PM
I wouldn't like it (and I think there's about a zero percent chance it happens), but it's nothing I'd get pissed off over. It would be sort of like Dayton Moore keeping Buddy Bell for another year. The guy's supposed to be a guru so I don't think I'd go suicidal over his very first decision.

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 01:15 PM
I wouldn't like it (and I think there's about a zero percent chance it happens), but it's nothing I'd get pissed off over. It would be sort of like Dayton Moore keeping Buddy Bell for another year. The guy's supposed to be a guru so I don't think I'd go suicidal over his very first decision.

This. :thumb:

DaFace
01-14-2009, 01:15 PM
Poll n00b set it to multiple responses, so it looks like there are more who want Herm to stay than really do.

Otter
01-14-2009, 01:18 PM
You're going to milk this down to the last second aren't you Kotter?

DaWolf
01-14-2009, 01:21 PM
Based on his gameday coaching, I would not be happy. However, let's look at it this way: This team will most likely not win a Super Bowl next year, we're missing a lot of pieces. There may be a lot more attractive coaches available next year, so you may have better options at that time without that.

The overriding factor for me, however, would be if Gunther came back. That guy needs to be canned ASAP. This defense is abysmal. In my opinion, Herm could win with a good personnel guy getting him good players, good OC, and good DC. Herm cannot win with this coaching staff. If Pioli keeps Herm, he needs to pull a DV on him and force him to hire some new assistants...

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 01:32 PM
Based on his gameday coaching, I would not be happy. However, let's look at it this way: This team will most likely not win a Super Bowl next year, we're missing a lot of pieces. There may be a lot more attractive coaches available next year, so you may have better options at that time without that.

The overriding factor for me, however, would be if Gunther came back. That guy needs to be canned ASAP. This defense is abysmal. In my opinion, Herm could win with a good personnel guy getting him good players, good OC, and good DC. Herm cannot win with this coaching staff. If Pioli keeps Herm, he needs to pull a DV on him and force him to hire some new assistants...

Yup. For me....more attractive coaches available next year, and Gun being canned are the key. Under those circumstances...I can see Herm being back for a sink or swim season.

dirk digler
01-14-2009, 01:36 PM
I would be fucking pissed as hell BUT I could tolerate it if all the D coaches are gone. If Gun and Tim Krumrie are still here then I will blow a fucking gasket and I will instantly lose all respect for Pioli

talastan
01-14-2009, 01:44 PM
Based on his gameday coaching, I would not be happy. However, let's look at it this way: This team will most likely not win a Super Bowl next year, we're missing a lot of pieces. There may be a lot more attractive coaches available next year, so you may have better options at that time without that.

The overriding factor for me, however, would be if Gunther came back. That guy needs to be canned ASAP. This defense is abysmal. In my opinion, Herm could win with a good personnel guy getting him good players, good OC, and good DC. Herm cannot win with this coaching staff. If Pioli keeps Herm, he needs to pull a DV on him and force him to hire some new assistants...

THIS..My thoughts exactly!

HemiEd
01-14-2009, 01:58 PM
I would be ****ing pissed as hell BUT I could tolerate it if all the D coaches are gone. If Gun and Tim Krumrie are still here then I will blow a ****ing gasket and I will instantly lose all respect for Pioli

This, and there is absolutely no fucking reason to keep this fucking, cocksucking, dipshit, stupid, lyeing, backstabbing, illiterate, motherfucking, asshole, cancerous, ignorant fucking Herm Edwards on the team any longer. :cuss::cuss::cuss:

talastan
01-14-2009, 02:00 PM
This, and there is absolutely no ****ing reason to keep this ****ing, cocksucking, dipshit, stupid, lyeing, backstabbing, illiterate, mother****ing, asshole, cancerous, ignorant ****ing Herm Edwards on the team any longer. :cuss::cuss::cuss:

I agree Hemi but if it does happen talk about epic Planet meltdown...ROFL

I don't hate Herm, just hate the fact he can't coach. This said Pioli has to take the defensive problems and correct them THIS year. Drop Gun and his staff like the bad prom date who won't put out. Get Spags as a DC/Asst HC, spend money on FAs, spend Draft picks, whatever it takes just get our D out of the cellar please Scott! :grovel:

Lex Luthor
01-14-2009, 02:03 PM
This pissed.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/attachment.php?attachmentid=82867&d=1226735351
No. THIS PISSED!

http://i295.photobucket.com/albums/mm160/moonchild1975/hellraiser.jpg

alpha_omega
01-14-2009, 02:08 PM
Very...Damnit Scott!!!

Tuckdaddy
01-14-2009, 02:09 PM
If Scott thinks Herm is good enough to give him another year to see the rebuild through I'll accept it with hesitation. Pioli Doesn't want to fail or even get off to a bad start, so if he's OK with Herm I'll be Ok with Herm.... for now.


I agree. He is considered the best in the NFL and we are beyond lucky to have gotten him. If he thinks it's best to keep Herm for one more year then fine.

|Zach|
01-14-2009, 02:18 PM
I wouldn't be that mad. I really think the pieces are here. We lost a lot of close game while totally changing up offenses midseason. Another year for players to grow and no Cunningham and I am just fine with Edwards at the helm.

EyePod
01-14-2009, 02:24 PM
As long as most of the coordinators go, I'm fine with it.

EyePod
01-14-2009, 02:24 PM
As long as most of the coordinators go, I'm fine with it.

But I'd still rather Spags over Herm.

GoHuge
01-14-2009, 02:27 PM
If Scott thinks Herm is good enough to give him another year to see the rebuild through I'll accept it with hesitation. Pioli Doesn't want to fail or even get off to a bad start, so if he's OK with Herm I'll be Ok with Herm.... for now.That's where I am right now.

DeezNutz
01-14-2009, 02:30 PM
If Scott thinks Herm is good enough to give him another year to see the rebuild through I'll accept it with hesitation. Pioli Doesn't want to fail or even get off to a bad start, so if he's OK with Herm I'll be Ok with Herm.... for now.

If Pioli thinks a coach who is 6-35 in his last 41 games is good enough, Pioli isn't nearly the hire that most of us think he is.

Brock
01-14-2009, 02:30 PM
It's going to be a real drag to have to listen to "that's kind of where we're at right now", "He's a good fooball player", "these kids deserve to win a game" etc. garbage from his press conferences for another year.

keg in kc
01-14-2009, 02:35 PM
Strategically, assuming you can get Herm to stay for a lame-duck year, you risk the chance of the Chiefs exceeding expectations. Hard to fire a coach after, say, a shocking 10-6 season and playoff appearance. Not so hard to fire a coach after 4-12 and 2-14. That's the inherent risk of the 'better coaches next year' ploy.

Mark M
01-14-2009, 02:42 PM
Pissed, even though Herm seems like a great guy. He's just a shitty pro coach.

IMHO, dude should be a college coach. His shtick would go over great and I honestly think he'd do a great job on that level.

Which, naturally, means he won't just stay, but get a contract extension ...

MM
~~:cuss:

Fish
01-14-2009, 02:43 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

talastan
01-14-2009, 02:57 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

Yep exactly!! I sorry but if Pioli decides to keep Herm it is his decision. The guy knows more about running a football franchise than any on this board combined. I'll defer to Clark and Scott for the HC decision. If Herm stays fine, I just hope that Gun is gone. He hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 03:39 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

Yeah, people can be funny that way. :doh!:

BigMeatballDave
01-14-2009, 03:49 PM
Highly.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 03:50 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

Damn Straight... Great Hire unless they keep that cancerous virus around the franchise...

Fuck Herm! That worthless son of a bitch can fucking rot in a bottomless piece of ass...

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 03:52 PM
Yep exactly!! I sorry but if Pioli decides to keep Herm it is his decision. The guy knows more about running a football franchise than any on this board combined. I'll defer to Clark and Scott for the HC decision. If Herm stays fine, I just hope that Gun is gone. He hasn't been relevant in over a decade.

Yeah Pitch fork Gun but suck off Herm....

WTF is wrong with people... Herm isnt a fucking genious when it comes to defense, yet people seem to think he can actually run a D on gameday?

Dear god, I wonder why peoples mothers didnt swallow...

crazycoffey
01-14-2009, 04:19 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...


they go so far as even saying, if pioli keeps herm and herm turned it around and won 13 games next year, the franchise would be forced to extend herm and then pioli would somehow feel cheated? it's so crazy on here right now.

and reerun - head coaches don't usually "run" the D on Sundays.

Fish
01-14-2009, 04:20 PM
Damn Straight... Great Hire unless they keep that cancerous virus around the franchise...

**** Herm! That worthless son of a bitch can ****ing rot in a bottomless piece of ass...

On cue....

Great hire... unless his professional opinion is different than yours, then he's terrible... like everything the man has done up to this point has been great, but if he makes this one decision that goes against your opinion, then that changes everything and proves Pioli is worthless...

Chiefs fans are the best!

Mr. Arrowhead
01-14-2009, 04:21 PM
IN Pioli i trust

keg in kc
01-14-2009, 04:21 PM
Yeah Pitch fork Gun but suck off Herm....

WTF is wrong with people... Herm isnt a ****ing genious when it comes to defense, yet people seem to think he can actually run a D on gameday?

Dear god, I wonder why peoples mothers didnt swallow...I've heard the opposite, too, pitchfork herm but suck off gun, cause apparently herm is 'holding him back'.

I'm like...wtf? Has KCJ failure worship spread like some kind of virus?

Fish
01-14-2009, 04:28 PM
they go so far as even saying, if pioli keeps herm and herm turned it around and won 13 games next year, the franchise would be forced to extend herm and then pioli would somehow feel cheated? it's so crazy on here right now.

and reerun - head coaches don't usually "run" the D on Sundays.

Herm hate > Franchise progress

dirk digler
01-14-2009, 04:29 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

If he keeps Herm, Pioli will have no honeymoon here in KC and he will open himself to widespread criticism because no one in there right mind believes Herm deserves to be an NFL head coach.

Chiefnj2
01-14-2009, 04:31 PM
The Chiefs floundered the past several years because nobody was on the same page.
- Herm was too scared to scrap the Vermeil team his first and second year although part of him wanted to rebuild.
- When Herm finally did bite the bullet to rebuild Peterson still wanted older players.
- Herm wanted a cover 2 defense that didn't match the existing talent and kept a non-cover 2 DC.
- Herm wanted a 3 yards up the middle cloud of dust run team but he tried to run it with Vermeil's team.
- Virtually none of the free agent acquisitions worked.
- Herms ability to draft well was greatly exagerrated.

Everyone was rowing the boat in different directions and nobody was comfortable with what the other was doing.

If Pioli comes in and really thinks that Herm's way is the right way, then Clark should have just re-upped Peterson's contract and saved some of his dad's money.

The entire staff needs to be released and Pioli needs to build from scratch.

talastan
01-14-2009, 04:33 PM
Yeah Pitch fork Gun but suck off Herm....

WTF is wrong with people... Herm isnt a ****ing genious when it comes to defense, yet people seem to think he can actually run a D on gameday?

Dear god, I wonder why peoples mothers didnt swallow...

Yes Rerun, because that is exactly what I said. Read the whole damn thread next time....

I agree Hemi but if it does happen talk about epic Planet meltdown...ROFL

I don't hate Herm, just hate the fact he can't coach. This said Pioli has to take the defensive problems and correct them THIS year. Drop Gun and his staff like the bad prom date who won't put out. Get Spags as a DC/Asst HC, spend money on FAs, spend Draft picks, whatever it takes just get our D out of the cellar please Scott! :grovel:

I've never said I love Herm as a coach, but if Pioli decides he does I'll give him the benefit of the doubt. I think the GermWarfare might be scared that they would be wrong. AGAIN NOT THAT I THINK HERM CAN COACH WORTH A CRAP, but I'm not going to judge Pioli before I even know what is going on. :shake:

dirk digler
01-14-2009, 04:35 PM
Scott Pioli isn't going to make Herm coach better. We have seen what Herm can do with his 6 wins in 2 years.

If they decide to keep Herm it really makes you wonder who's decision that really was.

smittysbar
01-14-2009, 04:42 PM
Poll n00b set it to multiple responses, so it looks like there are more who want Herm to stay than really do.

This.....Recount

Craqhead
01-14-2009, 04:42 PM
A little bit. But, I'll defer to Pioli and Clark on it.

I really want for him too be gone... if he has too stay, GUN and every coach on the defensive side of the ball needs too be shown the door.

Fish
01-14-2009, 04:50 PM
If he keeps Herm, Pioli will have no honeymoon here in KC and he will open himself to widespread criticism because no one in there right mind believes Herm deserves to be an NFL head coach.

So Pioli should take this job and simply adhere to popular fan opinion for fear of "widespread criticism"? I'm not sure that is the way important decisions are made in multi-million dollar professional organizations, but I could be wrong.

Do you believe he can't think for himself? Or do you not trust his judgment on the matter?

Bearcat
01-14-2009, 04:52 PM
I voted "Pretty ticked-off. Herm will never be a SuperBowl Coach. Send him on his way. Now.", because I don't think there's a very good chance that he can ever win more than one or two games in a playoff season, so I don't think there's any reason to keep him around.

As far as if Pioli keeps him... eh, I'll get over it. I've read in a couple of places that Belichick likes Herm, so I could see why Pioli would want to give him a chance. I'd just really like it if he went away forever.

Micjones
01-14-2009, 04:53 PM
http://galatea.stetson.edu/~bcampbel/images/uploads/cash.jpg

dirk digler
01-14-2009, 04:59 PM
So Pioli should take this job and simply adhere to popular fan opinion for fear of "widespread criticism"? I'm not sure that is the way important decisions are made in multi-million dollar professional organizations, but I could be wrong.

Do you believe he can't think for himself? Or do you not trust his judgment on the matter?

As I have said before I am willing to give the new GM all the trust in the world EXCEPT when it comes to Herm.

If they keep Herm then I will no longer trust their judgment and they might as well have kept Carl.

ChiTown
01-14-2009, 05:00 PM
Scott Pioli isn't going to make Herm coach better. We have seen what Herm can do with his 6 wins in 2 years.

If they decide to keep Herm it really makes you wonder who's decision that really was.

Bingo

Herm and KC are not a match. Cut the head off now, and start anew. For fucks sake, now is the opportune time!

crazycoffey
01-14-2009, 05:00 PM
Herm hate = Franchise progress


FYP [/reerun]

KC4EVER
01-14-2009, 05:00 PM
Herm deserves to come back one more year to show what his plan can do when given more than one freaking year! You Herm haters truly disgust me, right along with all the tin throats on the radio, if you truly can't see that Herm hasn't been given a fare shot at turning this team around (handcuffed by CP) then you just don't understand what it means to commit to a plan and follow through with it. Almost all of you at the beginning of last year were soooooo ready for the "rebuild" and said a 3 or 4 win season would be okay because we were heading in the right direction and now Herms the antichrist. I just don't get it, maybe it's because I've met him and through our very short conversations by the end of the weekend even I was ready to run through a brick wall for the guy!

crazycoffey
01-14-2009, 05:02 PM
on another note, cowher isn't going to coach for anyone this year, maybe herm stays to finish and we can get cowher?



:p

Bearcat
01-14-2009, 05:06 PM
Herm deserves to come back one more year to show what his plan can do when given more than one freaking year! You Herm haters truly disgust me, right along with all the tin throats on the radio, if you truly can't see that Herm hasn't been given a fare shot at turning this team around (handcuffed by CP) then you just don't understand what it means to commit to a plan and follow through with it. Almost all of you at the beginning of last year were soooooo ready for the "rebuild" and said a 3 or 4 win season would be okay because we were heading in the right direction and now Herms the antichrist. I just don't get it, maybe it's because I've met him and through our very short conversations by the end of the weekend even I was ready to run through a brick wall for the guy!

It's not about his record, it's about his coaching abilities and philosophy.

You can't fix stupid.

KCChiefsFan88
01-14-2009, 05:06 PM
on another note, cowher isn't going to coach for anyone this year, maybe herm stays to finish and we can get cowher?



:p

Cowher will want full control when he comes back, which won't happen with Pioli in KC.

Second of all, you want to essentially throw away another season under Herm, with the UNLIKELY chance that Cowher would agree to come to KC?

That is beyond crazy

crazycoffey
01-14-2009, 05:32 PM
Cowher will want full control when he comes back, which won't happen with Pioli in KC.

Second of all, you want to essentially throw away another season under Herm, with the UNLIKELY chance that Cowher would agree to come to KC?

That is beyond crazy


see the smilie - I was being humorous...

StcChief
01-14-2009, 05:37 PM
If Scott thinks Herm is good enough to give him another year to see the rebuild through I'll accept it with hesitation. Pioli Doesn't want to fail or even get off to a bad start, so if he's OK with Herm I'll be Ok with Herm.... for now.this. and some quality assistances, FA signing, Draft picks.

whoman69
01-14-2009, 05:51 PM
I will go as far as to say that if Herm is back as HC then I will not watch a single Chiefs game next year. I boycotted the NBA when they went on strike for the right to smoke dope, I can boycott the Chiefs.

Braincase
01-14-2009, 07:00 PM
I'm willing to wait a season if it means getting the right coach. I think Herm does a pretty good job in the draft, so I figure they team will get the best talent in house that they can. If there is a coach out there that Pioli wants, but can't get til next year, I'd rather wait and get the right guy , than get the wrong guy in here for three years now.

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 07:07 PM
Herm deserves to come back one more year to show what his plan can do when given more than one freaking year! You Herm haters truly disgust me, right along with all the tin throats on the radio, if you truly can't see that Herm hasn't been given a fare shot at turning this team around (handcuffed by CP) then you just don't understand what it means to commit to a plan and follow through with it. Almost all of you at the beginning of last year were soooooo ready for the "rebuild" and said a 3 or 4 win season would be okay because we were heading in the right direction and now Herms the antichrist. I just don't get it, maybe it's because I've met him and through our very short conversations by the end of the weekend even I was ready to run through a brick wall for the guy!

I'm in the same boat as you, buddy. I will never understand the hate for the man.

Pioli deserves the right to pick a coach that best fits what he wants and that man is most likely NOT Herm Edwards, but Herm Edwards would have made a decent coach without a stubborn prick running the team above him. It's a shame he has to go out this way, but I don't see any other way that it could end and keeping him is not in the best interest of teh Chiefs.

KCChiefsFan88
01-14-2009, 07:10 PM
I'm in the same boat as you, buddy. I will never understand the hate for the man.

Pioli deserves the right to pick a coach that best fits what he wants and that man is most likely NOT Herm Edwards, but Herm Edwards would have made a decent coach without a stubborn prick running the team above him. It's a shame he has to go out this way, but I don't see any other way that it could end and keeping him is not in the best interest of teh Chiefs.


For God sakes... the Chiefs have won TWO, TWO of their last 25 games under Herm and some people continue to defend him.

Tiger's Fan
01-14-2009, 07:10 PM
I love how most people have splooged all over the board at the Pioli signing praising Clark and Scott, but have added that in the slight chance that they keep Herm, it proves that they are both worthless dumbasses.

Geniouses and Saviors of the franchise!!! Unless they like Herm.... then screw those guys.... what a couple scumbags...

I think it would be a pretty good indicator of their competence if they collectively decided to keep a coach as fucking bad as Herm Edwards has proven to be time and time again.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 07:11 PM
For God sakes... the Chiefs have won TWO, TWO of their last 25 games under Herm and some people continue to defend him.

Some people just embrace and accept fail better than others...

Tiger's Fan
01-14-2009, 07:12 PM
I'm in the same boat as you, buddy. I will never understand the hate for the man.

Pioli deserves the right to pick a coach that best fits what he wants and that man is most likely NOT Herm Edwards, but Herm Edwards would have made a decent coach without a stubborn prick running the team above him. It's a shame he has to go out this way, but I don't see any other way that it could end and keeping him is not in the best interest of teh Chiefs.

The depth of your stupidity can't even be measured.

KCChiefsFan88
01-14-2009, 07:12 PM
see the smilie - I was being humorous...

I know you weren't being serious but you know there are Herm-supporters out there who are using this argument.

kstater
01-14-2009, 07:12 PM
It's not about his record, it's about his coaching abilities and philosophy.

You can't fix stupid.

This X 1000

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 07:13 PM
For God sakes... the Chiefs have won TWO, TWO of their last 25 games under Herm and some people continue to defend him.

But how many games would we have won with a better coach? That's the appropriate question to ask.

Even with a better coach, this is a 5-6 win team at best. At the very best. I've said many times that Herm has never proven to be better than an average coach, but people are missing the big piece here that the front office did such a lousy job with personnel that this team was fucked no matter who coached in 2007 and 2008.

KCChiefsFan88
01-14-2009, 07:15 PM
But how many games would we have won with a better coach? That's the appropriate question to ask.

Even with a better coach, this is a 5-6 win team at best. At the very best. I've said many times that Herm has never proven to be better than an average coach, but people are missing the big piece here that the front office did such a lousy job with personnel that this team was ****ed no matter who coached in 2007 and 2008.

Herm had a huge role in the personnel moves this team made the past 2 seasons.

Going into two seasons with Brodie Croyle as the default starter... that was Herm.

Sitting out free agency and relying 100% on rookies and young players... that was Herm.

It has been widely reported that Dictator Carl lost a power struggle to Herm last offseason so for you and other Herm supporters to continue to act like Herm was a victim of having no control over the Chiefs personnel fiasco the past 2 seasons is complete and utter nonsense.

Tiger's Fan
01-14-2009, 07:15 PM
As I have said before I am willing to give the new GM all the trust in the world EXCEPT when it comes to Herm.

If they keep Herm then I will no longer trust their judgment and they might as well have kept Carl.

BAM! This...

FringeNC
01-14-2009, 07:16 PM
Scott Pioli did not leave the Bill Belichick and the NE dynasty to tie his future to Herm f'n Edwards. Belichick is a cerebral Xs and Os guy; obviously, Herm is not. If Herm stays, pissed isn't the right word. More like shocked -- either my impression of Pioli or of Herm would be completely wrong.

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 07:21 PM
Herm had a huge role in the personnel moves this team made the past 2 seasons.

Going into two seasons with Brodie Croyle as the default starter... that was Herm.

Sitting out free agency and relying 100% on rookies and young players... that was Herm.

It has been widely reported that Dictator Carl lost a power struggle to Herm last offseason so for you and other Herm supporters to continue to act like Herm was a victim of having no control over the Chiefs personnel fiasco the past 2 seasons is complete and utter nonsense.

The Croyle decision was Herm's mistake and that's inexcusable.

The decision to go with youth was not a mistake. Only Herm haters would disagree on this point. Almost every single person on Kansas City thinks it was a great decision. And I can guarantee you it is a huge reason Pioli came into Kansas City.

We have heard multiple sources say that Herm wanted a rebuild much sooner and Peterson resisted. We have sources that say that Peterson was such an arrogant asshole that in the past few years, agents wouldn't even TALK to him. Did Herm have some control? It sounds like he had some control over the draft toward the end. But how do you as a head coach play youth when your boss demands you play veterans? And what good does it do you as a head coach to want a free agent when your GM is so hated around the league that he can't bring anybody good in? I love how people insist that Herm was so much to blame for personnel problems in KC when almost every source suggest otherwise.

Bwana
01-14-2009, 07:22 PM
Very

mcan
01-14-2009, 07:45 PM
But how many games would we have won with a better coach? That's the appropriate question to ask.

Even with a better coach, this is a 5-6 win team at best. At the very best. I've said many times that Herm has never proven to be better than an average coach, but people are missing the big piece here that the front office did such a lousy job with personnel that this team was ****ed no matter who coached in 2007 and 2008.


You're not giving NEAR enough credit to how much good coaching helps a team. The fact is, Herm is a great motivator, but doesn't know how to prepare his team. They aren't conditioned enough to play well in the 2nd half, and everyone looks sloppy all the time. That's coaching. I have no doubt that with a decent coach at the helm, this team could have won the division this year with the exact same personnel.

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 08:15 PM
You're not giving NEAR enough credit to how much good coaching helps a team. The fact is, Herm is a great motivator, but doesn't know how to prepare his team. They aren't conditioned enough to play well in the 2nd half, and everyone looks sloppy all the time. That's coaching. I have no doubt that with a decent coach at the helm, this team could have won the division this year with the exact same personnel.

You really think this team had even remotely close to the talent to have been a playoff team with this crappy roster? Sorry, this was a losing team no matter who coached. Even Houdini could not have pulled off a winning season with this sorry group of shits.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 08:16 PM
You really think this team had even remotely close to the talent to have been a playoff team with this crappy roster? Sorry, this was a losing team no matter who coached. Even Houdini could not have pulled off a winning season with this sorry group of shits.

This crappy roster was assembled by 2 people... Herm and Carl....

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 08:18 PM
This crappy roster was assembled by 2 people... Herm and Carl....

And we have heard multiple reports suggesting that the latter had a lot more influence on the personnel decisions than the former.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 08:20 PM
And we have heard multiple reports suggesting that the latter had a lot more influence on the personnel decisions than the former.

And the former didnt have the back bone to stand up for himself, He had to go around the GM's back and weasel his way into Clarks boxers to get his way...

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 08:40 PM
And the former didnt have the back bone to stand up for himself, He had to go around the GM's back and weasel his way into Clarks boxers to get his way...

Every single personnel decision had to go through Carl Peterson. It doesn't matter how much the head coach screams. And if you scream too much, you get fired. Lane Kiffin anyone?

We are confusing what he should have done with what he could actually do. Every single decision goes through Carl Peterson. Herm can't sign players. He can't promise them contracts. He can only hope that his GM will give him the players he wants. Based on everything we've read, Herm has been at bitter disagreement with Peterson on personnel decisions for some time now.

Quite simply: if Carl Peterson commits to bringing in Donnie Edwards and Damion McIntosh, what can Herm Edwards do to stop that? Nothing. If Carl Peterson's arrogant attitude pushes a player like Jared Allen away, what can Herm do to change that? Nothing. If Carl Peterson is so hated in the NFL that no agent for a good free agent will negotiate him, what can Herm Edwards possibly do to bring in quality free agents? Nothing.

There is nothing Herm Edwards can do when a powerful, 20+ yeared tenured General Manager with a ridiculous amount of power insists on doing something his way. He can kick and scream, but Peterson makes the decisions, not Herm Edwards.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 08:42 PM
BTW Chiefzilla, I didnt know you had a radio show...

Brock
01-14-2009, 08:44 PM
For God sakes... the Chiefs have won TWO, TWO of their last 25 games under Herm and some people continue to defend him.

I don't care if he didn't win any games. The fact is, the team didn't really improve as the season went on, certainly not enough.

StcChief
01-14-2009, 08:45 PM
thank GOD somebody has seen the light and King Carl is gone.
an new day dawned Jan 13 2009.

TEX
01-14-2009, 08:46 PM
Every single personnel decision had to go through Carl Peterson. It doesn't matter how much the head coach screams. And if you scream too much, you get fired. Lane Kiffin anyone?

We are confusing what he should have done with what he could actually do. Every single decision goes through Carl Peterson. Herm can't sign players. He can't promise them contracts. He can only hope that his GM will give him the players he wants. Based on everything we've read, Herm has been at bitter disagreement with Peterson on personnel decisions for some time now.

Quite simply: if Carl Peterson commits to bringing in Donnie Edwards and Damion McIntosh, what can Herm Edwards do to stop that? Nothing. If Carl Peterson's arrogant attitude pushes a player like Jared Allen away, what can Herm do to change that? Nothing. If Carl Peterson is so hated in the NFL that no agent for a good free agent will negotiate him, what can Herm Edwards possibly do to bring in quality free agents? Nothing.

There is nothing Herm Edwards can do when a powerful, 20+ yeared tenured General Manager with a ridiculous amount of power insists on doing something his way. He can kick and scream, but Peterson makes the decisions, not Herm Edwards.


And all this has what to do with his game time coaching decisions?

chiefzilla1501
01-14-2009, 08:49 PM
And all this has what to do with his game time coaching decisions?

I have said about a gajillion times that Herm doesn't have the gameday coaching skills to take this team over the top. Old news.

My argument is that he would not have been nearly as bad if he had an even remotely competent GM. He is probably an 8-8 to 9-7 coach when he gets a fair shake. That's NOT acceptable to us as Chiefs fans and the reason why I have supported his firing, but I'm just tired of people pinning the majority of the blame on him. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame for the problems in KC, and Herm deserves enough blame to get fired. That's my stance. But it amazes me that there are lots of people who don't agree with that. I thought that was common sense.

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 08:53 PM
I have said about a gajillion times that Herm doesn't have the gameday coaching skills to take this team over the top. Old news.

My argument is that he would not have been nearly as bad if he had an even remotely competent GM. He is probably an 8-8 to 9-7 coach when he gets a fair shake. That's NOT acceptable to us as Chiefs fans and the reason why I have supported his firing, but I'm just tired of people pinning the majority of the blame on him. Peterson deserves the majority of the blame for the problems in KC, and Herm deserves enough blame to get fired. That's my stance. But it amazes me that there are lots of people who don't agree with that. I thought that was common sense.

Dude, not everybody will always agree with you...

You blame Carl, some of us hate Herm.. Big Deal, the quicker Herm is gone the better the team becomes...

Fish
01-14-2009, 09:12 PM
And the former didnt have the back bone to stand up for himself, He had to go around the GM's back and weasel his way into Clarks boxers to get his way...

ROFL Conflicted hatred?

If he went to Clark saying he didn't agree with Carl, then wouldn't that be standing up for himself? Who's he supposed to go to other than Clark?

You're wanting to call him a weasel for going to Clark saying he disagreed with Carl. But you also want to call him yellow because he didn't overrule Carl?

Which is it? You've managed to hate him for both....

PastorMikH
01-14-2009, 09:15 PM
I've thought about this a bit. I came to the realization that if Herm stays he probably won't be the same coach next year he was this year. It's one thing when the GM is a lame duck and Herm seemed to be more liked by the owner than Carl was. Now, with Pioli, Herm won't be able to buck the chain of command. IF Pioli decides to keep Herm, I would imagine the bar Herm has to jump over will be set pretty high and Herm won't be able to fall back Clark's support when he fails to clear the bar. Herm will have to worry about Pioli stepping into his office after each game and going over the mistakes of the game.

Who knows, with the right person pushing Herm to do what Herm needs to but doesn't want to do, Herm could look like a success.

boogblaster
01-14-2009, 09:23 PM
Herm is history ... print it ...

whoman69
01-14-2009, 09:31 PM
The Croyle decision was Herm's mistake and that's inexcusable.

The decision to go with youth was not a mistake. Only Herm haters would disagree on this point. Almost every single person on Kansas City thinks it was a great decision. And I can guarantee you it is a huge reason Pioli came into Kansas City.

We have heard multiple sources say that Herm wanted a rebuild much sooner and Peterson resisted. We have sources that say that Peterson was such an arrogant asshole that in the past few years, agents wouldn't even TALK to him. Did Herm have some control? It sounds like he had some control over the draft toward the end. But how do you as a head coach play youth when your boss demands you play veterans? And what good does it do you as a head coach to want a free agent when your GM is so hated around the league that he can't bring anybody good in? I love how people insist that Herm was so much to blame for personnel problems in KC when almost every source suggest otherwise.

Its not a mistake to younger more athletic players on your team. It is a mistake to bring in players just because they are young despite the fact they could never be a part of your future. Sometimes you need a veteran to make sure the job will get done. All the rebuilding and we have more holes than when we started.

Herm also brings a scheme destined to fail. Control running game offense with a defense which brings no pressure, just sits back and hopes that eventually a mistake will be made. Putting Gunther Cunningham in charge of such an emasculated scheme is the height of idiocy.

Tiger's Fan
01-14-2009, 10:48 PM
You really think this team had even remotely close to the talent to have been a playoff team with this crappy roster? Sorry, this was a losing team no matter who coached. Even Houdini could not have pulled off a winning season with this sorry group of shits.

This is where you're wrong, have always been wrong, and continue to be wrong. I've never seen worse prepared teams than the ones Herm fields. This will all finally be apparent to you when a real coach takes over. Be sure to take lots of notes because lord knows you need all the help you can get learning about football.

Fruit Ninja
01-14-2009, 11:05 PM
i want him gone, but i wouldnt be pissed. I have always thought he would be around 1 more season. IF he doesnt, then great, if he stays, then i expected it.

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 11:11 PM
I still want him gone, given a choice....

the thing I keep coming back to is Clark conceded this would be a rebuilding year. Herm operated under the assumption and premise that this was a rebuilding year. I don't think it's fair for us to assume that some of his decisions this year would not have been different than they were if it had not been, clearly, a rebuilding year. I'm convinced a few decisions he made, due to rebuilding, could have easily have cost him 3 or 4 games last year---but would not have contibuted as much to the "rebuilding." I think that's one of the reasons Clark is said to still be supportive of Herm, and why giving him another year could be in the cards.

JMHO

Reerun_KC
01-14-2009, 11:14 PM
ROFL Conflicted hatred?

You've managed to hate him for both....

Pretty cool Huh?

It doesnt matter what he does/did/wants to do/or how flustrated he gets... I dont like him, the sight of him is repulsive and the sooner he is gone from KC, the better the fanbase will be as a whole...

He can rot in a bottomless pit of butt for all I care...

Mr. Kotter
01-14-2009, 11:28 PM
Pretty cool Huh?

It doesnt matter what he does/did/wants to do/or how flustrated he gets... I dont like him, the sight of him is repulsive and the sooner he is gone from KC, the better the fanbase will be as a whole...

He can rot in a bottomless pit of butt for all I care...

You seem a little tense. Maybe a trip to 12th and Vine is in order? ;)

dj56dt58
01-15-2009, 01:12 AM
if we keep Herm im done with this fucking team

Dylan
01-15-2009, 01:49 AM
Herm Edwards' job ended the day Carl Peterson stepped down.


Cleaning house will be the easiest decision for Scott Pioli.


I have a feeling that Edwards and his staff will be let go as early as tomorrow.



nite

ClevelandBronco
01-15-2009, 02:27 AM
I usually don't vote in polls such as these. They're clearly meant for Chiefs fans.

But...

The guy deserves (at least) one more year. This past off season was filled with threads about the disastrous season that was ahead because of the rebuild.

Herm finally had to try it with Tyler Thigpen of all people (I dare any one of you to point out a preseason post that predicted that.)

I'll understand if Herm is fired, but I think Clark dealt him a losing hand from under the deck.

But, hell, I'd have kept Shanny. Maybe I overvalue loyalty.

DTLB58
01-15-2009, 03:49 PM
I just don't think you can just give Herm one more year, it's gotta be a long term thing and that would be just nuts for Hunt and Pioli to committ to that now.

Someone somewhere will give Herm another chance down the road, it just shouldn't be here and now. :shake:

talastan
01-15-2009, 04:43 PM
if we keep Herm im done with this ****ing team

Well...(You know the rest!) :D

chiefsngop
01-16-2009, 10:47 AM
I usually don't vote in polls such as these. They're clearly meant for Chiefs fans.

But...

The guy deserves (at least) one more year. This past off season was filled with threads about the disastrous season that was ahead because of the rebuild.

Herm finally had to try it with Tyler Thigpen of all people (I dare any one of you to point out a preseason post that predicted that.)

I'll understand if Herm is fired, but I think Clark dealt him a losing hand from under the deck.

But, hell, I'd have kept Shanny. Maybe I overvalue loyalty.

Yes. I'd want Herm as your coach for one more year also.

HC_Chief
01-16-2009, 11:16 AM
Herm doesn't "deserve" anything other than a pink slip. He has been f*ck-awful as the HC in KC.

That said, Clark waited too long to get the ball rolling and it may be unavaoidable that Herm remains. Off-season scouting begins VERY soon and Pioli has just come on board. It would be a monumental task to fire everyone, build a new scouting department + coaching staff, an have a cogent plan in place prior to the draft. I hope he can do it, but it may be inevitable that Herm remains one last painful, horribly-coached, stupid public statement-filled season in KC.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2009, 11:19 AM
Herm doesn't "deserve" anything other than a pink slip. He has been f*ck-awful as the HC in KC.

That said, Clark waited too long to get the ball rolling and it may be unavaoidable that Herm remains. Off-season scouting begins VERY soon and Pioli has just come on board. It would be a monumental task to fire everyone, build a new scouting department + coaching staff, an have a cogent plan in place prior to the draft. I hope he can do it, but it may be inevitable that Herm remains one last painful, horribly-coached, stupid public statement-filled season in KC.

Clark didn't wait too long to get the ball rolling.

He got the #1 candidate in the most important position for any football team. Regardless of how it happened, he got it done. I don't think anybody can criticize any decision that ultimately led to the hiring of Scott Pioli. Even if Hunt didn't hire Pioli until June, it still would be okay with me.

BigChiefFan
01-16-2009, 11:45 AM
Herm won't be retained. This I'm sure of.

RedThat
01-16-2009, 12:11 PM
At the very least you can see how he does this year with a new gm? if he fails, you don't extend his contract. that simple.

FringeNC
01-16-2009, 12:13 PM
Herm won't be retained. This I'm sure of.

I'd shocked if he was. So many reasons why... bad coach, players coach, cover-2, etc.

RedThat
01-16-2009, 12:21 PM
I wouldn't exactly hold my breath for Herm getting fired. you just never know..what if there is not a coach out there this year that Pioli wants?

BigChiefFan
01-16-2009, 12:23 PM
I wouldn't exactly hold my breath for Herm getting fired. you just never know..what if there is not a coach out there this year that Pioli wants?
ROFL There's plenty of candidates. We are only competing with St. Louis and Oakland.

Zouk
01-16-2009, 12:27 PM
Herm won't be retained. This I'm sure of.

I feel a quiet late Friday afternoon press release coming. Just my sense.

crazycoffey
01-16-2009, 12:38 PM
I know you weren't being serious but you know there are Herm-supporters out there who are using this argument.


no, I believe anti-herms think herm supporters believe that, and since I've gone on record to say I think he's a good coach and if he stays I'm ok with it, that is what makes it all so funny

blueballs
01-16-2009, 12:41 PM
If Herm would be kept to placate Clark
a coordinator could be but in place
to replace HE mid-season if neccessary

Ultra Peanut
01-16-2009, 12:44 PM
The problem with keeping him is his continued deleterious effect on the young guys, and the possibility that Dorsey continues to be completely misused.

The plus to keeping him? Hello Top 5 pick in 2010!

Reerun_KC
01-16-2009, 12:52 PM
At the very least you can see how he does this year with a new gm? if he fails, you don't extend his contract. that simple.

You have to extend his contract before the season... IF not then it will fail, for the players will not play or believe in a lame ass coach...

Frosty
01-16-2009, 12:55 PM
Herm won't be retained. This I'm sure of.

I've been wondering if he might be kept in some kind of non-coaching capacity. Clark has to pay him anyway so they might create some BS front office position, like Assistant GM. He can go get Krispy Kreme donuts for Pioli ("The sign has to say "HOT", Herm").

Herm wouldn't be up for any head coaching positions available now and would be free to take a coordinator position if one came up, but he could stay and help the transition otherwise and placate the surprising number of people that want Herm to stay.

chiefzilla1501
01-16-2009, 12:57 PM
At the very least you can see how he does this year with a new gm? if he fails, you don't extend his contract. that simple.

My two concerns are:
1) what is the definition of "fails"? I fear that the Chiefs get to 9-7 and feel that's good enough to keep Herm's job. You would hope that nothing short of a playoff win would be acceptable.
2) the Chiefs must fire Gun if they are to keep Herm, and I'm not sure that any coordinator would agree to coordinate for one year knowing he could be fired the year after. While your idea of firing the HC to retain the DC midseason sounds good in theory, the only coordinators who would agree to do that are second-rate assistants who weren't good enough to be heavily considered for head coaching gigs.

I don't think there are many scenarios where you can imagine Herm being head coach in 2009.

Ultra Peanut
01-16-2009, 01:05 PM
I've been wondering if he might be kept in some kind of non-coaching capacity. Clark has to pay him anyway so they might create some BS front office position, like Assistant GM. He can go get Krispy Kreme donuts for Pioli ("The sign has to say "HOT", Herm").

Herm wouldn't be up for any head coaching positions available now and would be free to take a coordinator position if one came up, but he could stay and help the transition otherwise and placate the surprising number of people that want Herm to stay.Interesting. Shuffle him off to a "consultant" role for a year and have him walk in and give the players pep talks every now and again, maybe?

Frosty
01-16-2009, 01:10 PM
Interesting. Shuffle him off to a "consultant" role for a year and have him walk in and give the players pep talks every now and again, maybe?

That's kind of what I was thinking.

"Herm, it's a promotion. Really."

Calcountry
01-16-2009, 01:39 PM
If Herm is still the coach, my boycott continues.