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View Full Version : Former Browns GM Phil Savage's nuggets of opinion on the Draft.


Direckshun
01-26-2009, 10:36 AM
Via Peter King (http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/peter_king/01/25/walkup/4.html).

I think, with no games this weekend, that I'll have Phil Savage, the former Browns' general manager who scouted all the practices at the Senior Bowl in Mobile last week, check in with his thoughts on the movers and shakers among the prospects there:

a. "The senior quarterback group is not strong. Matt Stafford and Mark Sanchez [juniors from Georgia and USC, respectively] must have known if they came out, they'd go high ... I liked the arm of Rhett Bomar, the Sam Houston State quarterback. He got a lot of exposure here and kept himself alive.''

b. "Alex Mack, the center from Cal, distanced himself from the pack at his position. He probably got himself into late in the first round.''

c. "Brian Cushing and Rey Maualuga get the attention as USC linebackers, and they're good. But Clay Matthews Jr. weighed in three pounds heavier than Cushing and showed he can play inside or outside linebacker. He went from being a mid-round guy in the fall to late in the first or the second round. He was a 175-pound kid in high school. He's 246 and instinctive, just like his dad.'' (Clay Matthews Sr. played 19 NFL seasons in Cleveland and Atlanta, and his 278 games played are third-most in history.)

d. "Cushing looks like a pro, an outside 'backer, kind of like a Kevin Greene.''

e. "Brian Robiskie, the Ohio State wide receiver, has had his speed questioned, but you can tell this is a kid who'd been to NFL camps and worked with his dad, because in the one-on-ones, he was very prepared and competitive. He's probably still a mid-round pick, but he's a good third-receiver type, a possession type who will make some plays with his size and his hands.''

f. "Rey Maualuga is a first- and second-down run defender. Not sure if he's going to be a great third-down player.''

g. "Pat White's been at the center of a lot of debate about whether he can play quarterback in the NFL. It's probably a longshot at 6-foot and 190, but who knows? I'd love to see him play that Wildcat spot. We had Josh Cribbs do it in Cleveland because he could throw the ball. I would think Pat White's a receiver, probably, but he can be a third quarterback type and play the Wildcat. He adds a dimension to the Wildcat because he can throw.''

h. "Michael Oher, the tackle from Ole Miss, is shrouded in mystery. He's the kid [Michael Lewis] wrote the book on, who kind of went from poverty to a suburban life because of football. He had a solid week, put himself in position to be a top 10 pick. He's 6-5, 325, with long arms. He's athletic, and he should be able to play left tackle. The great thing about taking a left tackle is if he doesn't pan out, he'll be able to be a right tackle.''

i. "The best three players I saw, maybe, were Cushing, Oher and Brandon Pettigrew, a tight end from Oklahoma State who is probably the most complete tight end in the country. Very impressed with him. He could go at the bottom of the first round.''

j. "Not much of a surprise, but 46 juniors came out, and I've seen most of them now, and I think it could potentially be the biggest draft for juniors ever. There will be something between 12 and 20 juniors picked in the first round.''

k. "First pick in the draft? If it's Detroit, and Jim Schwartz is talking about Bobby Layne, and the offensive coordinator is Scott Linehan, who wants a big, strong-thrower, I'd say the big strong QB with a strong arm would be the pick. Matthew Stafford is big and throws the ball so well. It's a pretty easy guess.''
Any guesses as to how great the Browns' drafting had been under Savage? ;)

Chiefnj2
01-26-2009, 10:41 AM
Good find. Rep your way.

His draft's were okay. It's hard to say if it was coaching or bad picks in some cases.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 10:47 AM
"The great thing about taking a left tackle is if he doesn't pan out, he'll be able to be a right tackle.''


CP "experts" calling Phil Savage an idiot in 3...2...1...

Dicky McElephant
01-26-2009, 10:56 AM
Damn.......I guess I can hope for this::

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Alex Mack
3rd round - Clay Matthews Jr.

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 11:32 AM
Damn.......I guess I can hope for this::

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Alex Mack
3rd round - Clay Matthews Jr.

All Pac-10 guys?

Chiefsplanet would go nuts.

Dicky McElephant
01-26-2009, 11:35 AM
All Pac-10 guys?

Chiefsplanet would go nuts.

Ehhhh....screw em. I don't care if they come from the MAC....as long as their talented and can help this team.

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 11:39 AM
Ehhhh....screw em. I don't care if they come from the MAC....as long as their talented and can help this team.

I'm with you. But it's Big 12 country. So many people can't understand why Chase Daniel isn't a first rounder.

DrRyan
01-26-2009, 12:50 PM
I would be surprised to see very many mid-major conference players drafted. Some story about the Pioli/Bill B. drafts I read showed they rarely ever drafted players not from a major conference. This year the Big 12 had a great year and a ton of really good college players but I don't see many of them translating into great pro players. Obviously there are exceptions...

DaKCMan AP
01-26-2009, 01:11 PM
This year the Big 12 had a great year

Not so much when it came bowl time.

DrRyan
01-26-2009, 02:54 PM
Not so much when it came bowl time.

Uhhh, ok. Not going to take the bait here SEC homer. Yes, we all know the SEC had a great bowl season. That does not mean the Big 12 was trash in the bowls though. Both conferences continually put players into the NFL(some better than others), which was the point I was trying to make. Please read the post, then reply.

bdeg
01-26-2009, 03:15 PM
Damn.......I guess I can hope for this::

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Alex Mack
3rd round - Clay Matthews Jr.

You're gonna have to pick between Mack and Mathews with that 2nd. Tough choice, but I think I'd take Matthews if we are indeed moving to the 3-4. Unless we could package LJ and Tony to the same team or add in a pick with one of them and get back into the early 2nd.

Dicky McElephant
01-26-2009, 03:25 PM
You're gonna have to pick between Mack and Mathews with that 2nd. Tough choice, but I think I'd take Matthews if we are indeed moving to the 3-4. Unless we could package LJ and Tony to the same team or add in a pick with one of them and get back into the early 2nd.

Well here....how about this?

1st round - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia/Mark Sanchez QB USC
2nd round - Clint Sintim OLB Virginia/Clay Matthews Jr. OLB USC
3rd round - Paul Kruger DE Utah/Antoine Caldwell C Alabama

bdeg
01-26-2009, 03:30 PM
I like it.

DaKCMan AP
01-26-2009, 03:46 PM
Uhhh, ok. Not going to take the bait here SEC homer. Yes, we all know the SEC had a great bowl season. That does not mean the Big 12 was trash in the bowls though. Both conferences continually put players into the NFL(some better than others), which was the point I was trying to make. Please read the post, then reply.

The Big 12 had a good, not great, year. They had a bunch of teams ranked near the top most of the year but when they played top teams from other conferences they didn't fare as well. I'd be hesitant to draft many defensive players from the conference. Not saying the Big 12 is crap - it's not - and there are some great players coming out of the conference every year. However, some are overrated. A lot of Texas players under-perform in the NFL.

doomy3
01-26-2009, 04:44 PM
I'm with you. But it's Big 12 country. So many people can't understand why Chase Daniel isn't a first rounder.



Yeah, the board is just full of people wanting to take Chase Daniel in the first. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

Dicky McElephant
01-26-2009, 04:46 PM
Yeah, the board is just full of people wanting to take Chase Daniel in the first. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

Give you a break? There are people on here that think we should draft Maclin in the 1st.....take Chase in the 3rd and that we might as well grab Coffman while we're at it. There ARE people out there that are blinded so much by their homerism...that they think we should draft Missouri players because they're "good".

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 04:56 PM
Yeah, the board is just full of people wanting to take Chase Daniel in the first. :rolleyes:

Give me a break.

I was half joking with that response but I guess you weren't around much during the season.

There were several people that wanted Chase Daniel in the first round.

Seriously.

DrRyan
01-26-2009, 05:14 PM
Give you a break? There are people on here that think we should draft Maclin in the 1st.....take Chase in the 3rd and that we might as well grab Coffman while we're at it. There ARE people out there that are blinded so much by their homerism...that they think we should draft Missouri players because they're "good".

I have said before if they were to take a WR in the first round to compliment Bowe, Maclin would make much more sense than Crabtree. I do not want them drafting either of them in the first, but Maclin IMO would make more sense for this team than Crabtree. It is looking like it may very well be QB at #3, which I am not a huge fan of, but if that is the direction Pioli and the personnel dept. go then it is probably the right move. I just see too many holes on the defensive side of the ball(line especially).

But, I like your option here:
1st round - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia/Mark Sanchez QB USC
2nd round - Clint Sintim OLB Virginia/Clay Matthews Jr. OLB USC
3rd round - Paul Kruger DE Utah/Antoine Caldwell C Alabama

All good looking talents/values while also filling holes.

milkman
01-26-2009, 09:11 PM
I have said before if they were to take a WR in the first round to compliment Bowe, Maclin would make much more sense than Crabtree. I do not want them drafting either of them in the first, but Maclin IMO would make more sense for this team than Crabtree. It is looking like it may very well be QB at #3, which I am not a huge fan of, but if that is the direction Pioli and the personnel dept. go then it is probably the right move. I just see too many holes on the defensive side of the ball(line especially).

But, I like your option here:
1st round - Matthew Stafford QB Georgia/Mark Sanchez QB USC
2nd round - Clint Sintim OLB Virginia/Clay Matthews Jr. OLB USC
3rd round - Paul Kruger DE Utah/Antoine Caldwell C Alabama

All good looking talents/values while also filling holes.

The problem here is that there are still holes everywhere on this roster.

We need a QB, 3 O-linemen from center to the right, probably another receiver and very likely another RB on offense.

On the defense, depending on whether we stay in a 43 or switch to a 34 (probably) we need defensive lineman (either two DEs, or a NT and at least one DE), LBs (2 or 3), and at least one safety.

That's 10 or 11 holes to fill.

I think Pioli is going to be fairly active in free agency.

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 09:27 PM
I think Pioli is going to be fairly active in free agency.

I took a pretty extensive look at the free agents available and I think there are only three or four that can truly help the Chiefs.

I guess if they can sign all of those guys, they may be able to grab the rest in the draft and with undrafted free agents.

Even still, I don't think they'll fill their primary needs on defense adequately. Pioli would have to be extremely lucky to grab a Justin Tuck/Jared Allen type of guy.

Sam Hall
01-26-2009, 09:39 PM
I took a pretty extensive look at the free agents available and I think there are only three or four that can truly help the Chiefs.

I guess if they can sign all of those guys, they may be able to grab the rest in the draft and with undrafted free agents.

I'm getting closer and closer to making you the first person I've put on ignore.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 09:40 PM
I took a pretty extensive look at the free agents available and I think there are only three or four that can truly help the Chiefs.

I guess if they can sign all of those guys, they may be able to grab the rest in the draft and with undrafted free agents.

Even still, I don't think they'll fill their primary needs on defense adequately. Pioli would have to be extremely lucky to grab a Justin Tuck/Jared Allen type of guy.

And I'm betting that the majority of the guys you're talking about don't even hit the market.

milkman
01-26-2009, 10:01 PM
I took a pretty extensive look at the free agents available and I think there are only three or four that can truly help the Chiefs.

I guess if they can sign all of those guys, they may be able to grab the rest in the draft and with undrafted free agents.

Even still, I don't think they'll fill their primary needs on defense adequately. Pioli would have to be extremely lucky to grab a Justin Tuck/Jared Allen type of guy.

I'd like to get a close look at the second tier guys, the guys that have to grind every day to keep a job in the NFL.

Those are the kind of guys that I expect Pioli to take a close look at, cause those are the kind of guys whose work ethic that he'll want as examples for the young guys that are here.

I'd be real surprised if we see him go after any big names.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 10:03 PM
I'd like to get a close look at the second tier guys, the guys that have to grind every day to keep a job in the NFL.

Those are the kind of guys that I expect Pioli to take a close look at, cause those are the kind of guys whose work ethic that he'll want as examples for the young guys that are here.

I'd be real surprised if we see him go after any big names.

Agreed, 100%

Clark said as much. When asked if we would be active in FA, he said that we'd be more active than in the past, but not necessarily when it comes to Tier 1 guys - more like Tier 2/3 guys.

In other words, more Demorrio Williams types.

milkman
01-26-2009, 10:06 PM
Agreed, 100%

Clark said as much. When asked if we would be active in FA, he said that we'd be more active than in the past, but not necessarily when it comes to Tier 1 guys - more like Tier 2/3 guys.

In other words, more Demorrio Williams types.

Except Williams isn't that grinder type I'm thinking of.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 10:09 PM
Except Williams isn't that grinder type I'm thinking of.

Yeah, I almost added that.

I meant money-wise.

Most guys will be paid much, much less IMO.

That one comment of Pioli's was amazing - that in 2002? they signed 21 FA's and gave out a COMBINED $2.5M in guaranteed money.

That's a lot of Oliver Celestin types...

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 10:12 PM
And I'm betting that the majority of the guys you're talking about don't even hit the market.

After spending quite a bit of time looking at the free agent market, I came up with this list of guys that I'd personally be interested in signing. I'm not necessarily saying I'd sign them if I were Pioli, but these would be the only guys that interest me.

QB: None. I hate them all.
RB: Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward
WR: Shaun MacDonald
OL: Jahri Evans, Jason Brown
LB: Channing Crowder, Terrell Suggs, Jonathon Vilma, Michael Boley (RFA)
DL: Julius Peppers

I think that Crowder, Suggs, Boley and Peppers don't go anywhere. That's just a guess, but I'd be surprised.

That leaves Jacobs or Ward (taking over for the traded/released LJ), Shaun MacDonald (a more reliable #2 than Bradley, who I like but can't seem to stay healthy), Evans and/or Brown. And if Vilma checks out medically, I'd be interested in his contract demands.

That's it. Maybe four guys, tops. IMO, the rest of the list contains guys that are either too old or that would be short term stop gaps or guys that really don't upgrade the roster.

Feel free to flame away.

milkman
01-26-2009, 10:15 PM
Assuming we go to a 34 (not a sure thing), Vilma is not a good fit.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 10:16 PM
After spending quite a bit of time looking at the free agent market, I came up with this list of guys that I'd personally be interested in signing. I'm not necessarily saying I'd sign them if I were Pioli, but these would be the only guys that interest me.

QB: None. I hate them all.
RB: Brandon Jacobs, Derrick Ward
WR: Shaun MacDonald
OL: Jahri Evans, Jason Brown
LB: Channing Crowder, Terrell Suggs, Jonathon Vilma, Michael Boley (RFA)
DL: Julius Peppers

I think that Crowder, Suggs, Boley and Peppers don't go anywhere. That's just a guess, but I'd be surprised.

That leaves Jacobs or Ward (taking over for the traded/released LJ), Shaun MacDonald (a more reliable #2 than Bradley, who I like but can't seem to stay healthy), Evans and/or Brown. And if Vilma checks out medically, I'd be interested in his contract demands.

That's it. Maybe four guys, tops. IMO, the rest of the list contains guys that are either too old or that would be short term stop gaps.

Feel free to flame away.

No flaming.

I doubt both Jacobs and Ward hit the market, and I also doubt that Vilma or Evans hit the market.

We're in complete agreement on Jason Brown, and we couldn't be farther apart on Shaun McDonald. As someone who saw quite a bit of him in STL, I can't fathom him ever being a #2.

JMO.

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 10:17 PM
Assuming we go to a 34 (not a sure thing), Vilma is not a good fit.

Right.

And that's another thing: Outside of Pioli and the next head coach, no one knows what they're thinking defensively.

Ari Chi3fs
01-26-2009, 10:22 PM
I want Chase Daniel..... well, his head on a pike! mw hah aha ahah

Dicky McElephant
01-26-2009, 10:23 PM
Jason Brown would be the #1 guy that I would go after in FA.

OnTheWarpath58
01-26-2009, 10:24 PM
Jason Brown would be the #1 guy that I would go after in FA.

Me too.

He's really the only guy that excites me.

DaneMcCloud
01-26-2009, 10:25 PM
No flaming.

I doubt both Jacobs and Ward hit the market, and I also doubt that Vilma or Evans hit the market.

We're in complete agreement on Jason Brown, and we couldn't be farther apart on Shaun McDonald. As someone who saw quite a bit of him in STL, I can't fathom him ever being a #2.

JMO.

I haven't seen much of MacDonald. All I know is that when I have seen him, he's looked good. And he had 79 catches in 2007 on a horrible team. I don't think he's a long-term solution at #2 but with the right contract, he could slide into the #3 spot, once a #2 was drafted and developed.

He's definitely a 50 catch per season guy and the Chiefs are in desperate need of a guy that can get at least that many opposite Bowe. But I'll trust your evaluation above mine, not having seen him but a handful of times.

I have a feeling that the Giants won't be able to keep both. One of those guys will get a contract that the Giants won't match. But if that's the case, we're talking extremely slim-pickens come the end of February.

Dicky McElephant
01-27-2009, 08:44 AM
I have a feeling that Brandon Jacobs is going to want a HUGE contract.

ChiefsCountry
01-27-2009, 02:30 PM
The problem with Ward is that he is the same age as LJ.

DaneMcCloud
01-27-2009, 08:05 PM
The problem with Ward is that he is the same age as LJ.

He's more than a year younger and he's only had 342 carries in 5 seasons. He should be good for at least 2 more years.

I wouldn't break the bank for the guy but with LJ conceivably traded, the Chiefs will need an "every down" back and they may not have not draft choices available to fill that need.

Mosbonian
01-28-2009, 10:36 AM
I was half joking with that response but I guess you weren't around much during the season.

There were several people that wanted Chase Daniel in the first round.

Seriously.

I'd like to see all the people who did....because I don't remember any. Even the most diehard Tiger fan knows that, at best, the only way Daniel's career was going any further is if he took it North to Canada.

Someone in the NFL may take a flyer on him, but I wouldn't bet it would be anywhere but in the very late rounds.

mmaddog
*******

DaKCMan AP
01-28-2009, 10:50 AM
I'd like to see all the people who did....because I don't remember any. Even the most diehard Tiger fan knows that, at best, the only way Daniel's career was going any further is if he took it North to Canada.

Someone in the NFL may take a flyer on him, but I wouldn't bet it would be anywhere but in the very late rounds.

mmaddog
*******

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3479202&postcount=31

Wanting Daniel in the 2nd round:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5085957&postcount=45

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5044480&postcount=13

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5044490&postcount=16

Chiefnj2
01-28-2009, 10:52 AM
You searched back to 2006 to find someone who thought he might be a 1st round caliber QB? Maybe Rausch's opinion changed over the last three years.

DaKCMan AP
01-28-2009, 10:54 AM
You searched back to 2006 to find someone who thought he might be a 1st round caliber QB? Maybe Rausch's opinion changed over the last three years.

It was a 2-min quick search. Some want him in the 2nd round going back to October. That's, IMO, just as disturbing as thinking he's a 1st rounder.

DaneMcCloud
01-28-2009, 12:26 PM
http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=3479202&postcount=31

Wanting Daniel in the 2nd round:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5085957&postcount=45

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5044480&postcount=13

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showpost.php?p=5044490&postcount=16

Thank you.

No offense to mmaddog but I think that most people aren't paying as much attention to the Chase Daniel/Chase Coffman stuff that's gone around the past few seasons.

Frankie
01-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Damn.......I guess I can hope for this::

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Alex Mack
3rd round - Clay Matthews Jr.

I can live with that.

Frankie
01-28-2009, 01:29 PM
You're gonna have to pick between Mack and Mathews with that 2nd. Tough choice, but I think I'd take Matthews if we are indeed moving to the 3-4. Unless we could package LJ and Tony to the same team or add in a pick with one of them and get back into the early 2nd.

Don't trade Tony.

bigdreams1
01-28-2009, 01:59 PM
Damn.......I guess I can hope for this::

1st round - Mark Sanchez
2nd round - Alex Mack
3rd round - Clay Matthews Jr.

This would be amazing