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View Full Version : Chiefs Hypothetical Possibity:Trading Dorsey


Tribal Warfare
01-28-2009, 11:49 PM
I don't think he's a bust by any means, but I'm having a hardtime seeing Dorsey as a superstar in a 3-4 formation if KC switches the base defensive scheme.

J Diddy
01-29-2009, 12:01 AM
won't happen

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 12:10 AM
won't happen

Actually it could, a 4-3 defense will snatch due to his notoriety and ability. A team might take that 50 mill contract if they believe he has the juice to dominate.

Nightfyre
01-29-2009, 12:14 AM
If it was me, I'd try and build around the player on my team with the most upside and with more upside than any player in this year's draft. But that's just me.

KCtotheSB
01-29-2009, 12:14 AM
We're not trading Dorsey after one season. Good god....

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 12:16 AM
We're not trading Dorsey after one season. Good god....

If KC goes to a 3-4 do you see him becoming an elite star?

J Diddy
01-29-2009, 12:17 AM
Actually it could, a 4-3 defense will snatch due to his notoriety and ability. A team might take that 50 mill contract if they believe he has the juice to dominate.



Yeah but the chiefs won't. Cap hit will be huge plus who would give up equal in trade. They drafted him 5th in the first round. they won't get anywhere near that on the trading block.

J Diddy
01-29-2009, 12:18 AM
If KC goes to a 3-4 do you see him becoming an elite star?

You're talking about scrapping a whole lot of people real quick. The extra cap room will go to pot with a quickness.

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 12:20 AM
You're talking about scrapping a whole lot of people real quick. The extra cap room will go to pot with a quickness.

If he doesn't fit in Pioli's master plan I could see this happening. It doesn't mean I want it to happen but I foresee this occurring.

J Diddy
01-29-2009, 12:23 AM
If he doesn't fit in Pioli's master plan I could see this happening. It doesn't mean I want it to happen but I foresee this occurring.

If it were to happen, it will happen after his third season. They aren't just gonna throw that money away. They had to advertise a ton just to fill the seats this year to get that money.

Ultra Peanut
01-29-2009, 12:49 AM
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tk13
01-29-2009, 12:54 AM
The cap hit would be enormous. It'd probably eat up a good chunk of what huge cap space we had.

Mecca
01-29-2009, 01:01 AM
Generally I'd immediately be like um what are you smoking but new GM's equal wholesale changes and no commitments to any players.

Swazey
01-29-2009, 02:40 AM
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Fuck me! That shit was Funky!

Fritz88
01-29-2009, 03:51 AM
risky..too early to do it.

el borracho
01-29-2009, 07:25 AM
I would think that IF we switch to a 3-4 they would at least try to find a place for Dorsey for a year before trying to trade him.

DaKCMan AP
01-29-2009, 07:27 AM
Dumb.

talastan
01-29-2009, 07:39 AM
Failed Thread...A) Dorsey is going to be great, and secondly you build a team around its strengths, I really hope they don't go through and tear everything down this year.

bowener
01-29-2009, 08:11 AM
All I know is that there are some articles on the net that say he could possibly play 3-4 DE rather well. He will essentially be doing the same thing as a DE as he did in LSU as a DT. Holding up the point of attack and crashing down the line in the run game. He was not drafted here to be a Warren Sapp, though it was argued. He is not an elite pass rushing DT.

Also, he and Sedrick Ellis make some rather good 3-4 DE's on my Madden team..... currently have Ellis, but used Dorsey as such once.

RINGLEADER
01-29-2009, 08:25 AM
This thread needs some stats!

Dorsey's First Season: 46 tackles (32 solo), 1.0 sack, 1 pass defensed
Haynesworth's First Season: 30 tackles (21 solo), 1.0 sack, 3 passes defensed

Outside of Kevin Williams most of the Pro Bowl DTs take 3-4 years to become great. Jay Ratliff, Pat Williams, Kris Jenkins, Shaun Rogers all took a few years to get to the point that Dorsey reached last year with a terrible coaching staff. I think he has a great future with the team provided he gets some help at the ends and a coach who knows how to use him.

Jilly
01-29-2009, 09:05 AM
Is the argument that he's just not big enough for a 3-4?

DaKCMan AP
01-29-2009, 09:07 AM
Is the argument that he's just not big enough for a 3-4?

He's not big enough or the right type of player to be a NT in a 3-4, but some are arguing he can be a 3-4 DE.

EyePod
01-29-2009, 09:07 AM
If he doesn't fit in Pioli's master plan I could see this happening. It doesn't mean I want it to happen but I foresee this occurring.

If he doesn't fit in his master plan, he'll still keep him for a few seasons and then cut him.

FringeNC
01-29-2009, 09:08 AM
It was pointed out in an earlier related thread that several scouting reports projected his best fit as a 3-4 DE.

rad
01-29-2009, 09:25 AM
Hey, if we go 3-4, couldn't Dorsey play end? :D

Jilly
01-29-2009, 09:32 AM
He's not big enough or the right type of player to be a NT in a 3-4, but some are arguing he can be a 3-4 DE.

He's too slow for that, right?

Mr. Laz
01-29-2009, 09:37 AM
the problem is the signing bonus that was already paid

unless Dorsey is gonna repay the bonus and then get it back from his new team, a trade is not gonna happen.

blueballs
01-29-2009, 09:38 AM
If there is a history of trading a #5 pick
a year after being drafted who had a bland as white bread season
it would have to be on a Matt Millen like scale of epic fail

JASONSAUTO
01-29-2009, 09:41 AM
It was pointed out in an earlier related thread that several scouting reports projected his best fit as a 3-4 DE.

i knew someone had posted that article. care to post it again?

Pestilence
01-29-2009, 09:45 AM
No....if they do choose to switch to a 3-4....then you try him out at the end position first. If he works....great. If not....then you try other avenues.

Mr. Laz
01-29-2009, 09:45 AM
He's too slow for that, right?
we dunno

i know some people were saying he could play end in a 3-4 defense duration the draft evaluation process last year.

the key imo would be the he plays the end on the rush backer side.

see in a 3-4 defense you have 3 Dlineman but you also bring a lineback up to rush the passer. If Dorsey were the Defensive end on that side, once the linebacker moved up, he would basically be a defensive tackle again.

he is supposed to be athletic enough to work in space.

MVChiefFan
01-29-2009, 09:46 AM
You really only need one pass rushing DE in a 3-4 scheme. Most of your rush then comes from blitzes with linebackers and safties. I personally think Dorsey would be BETTER suited for a 3-4 DE.

MVChiefFan
01-29-2009, 09:47 AM
we dunno

i know some people where saying he could play end in a 3-4 defense duration the draft evaluation process last year.

the key imo would be the he plays the end on the rush backer side.

see in a 3-4 defense you have 3 Dlineman but you also bring a lineback up to rush the passer. If Dorsey were the Defensive end on that side, once the linebacker moved up, he would basically be a defensive tackle again.

he is supposed to be athletic enough to work in space.


:p Laz, you beat me to it.

Jilly
01-29-2009, 09:50 AM
we dunno

i know some people where saying he could play end in a 3-4 defense duration the draft evaluation process last year.

the key imo would be the he plays the end on the rush backer side.

see in a 3-4 defense you have 3 Dlineman but you also bring a lineback up to rush the passer. If Dorsey were the Defensive end on that side, once the linebacker moved up, he would basically be a defensive tackle again.

he is supposed to be athletic enough to work in space.

So it would work, provided we had an incredibly fast and smart linebacker....

Mr. Flopnuts
01-29-2009, 10:01 AM
Again? We're not trading our 2nd year top 5 draft pick, who underperformed last year. It's not happening. And in a couple of years, you all will be very happy it didn't.

Sure-Oz
01-29-2009, 10:03 AM
What would his value be anyway? We sure as hell better not trade him

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 10:03 AM
Again? We're not trading our 2nd year top 5 draft pick, who underperformed last year. It's not happening. And in a couple of years, you all will be very happy it didn't.

I'll reiterate, I never said I want this to happen but I could see this happening if Dorsey doesn't fit in Pioli's scheme.

Jilly
01-29-2009, 10:03 AM
Again? We're not trading our 2nd year top 5 draft pick, who underperformed last year. It's not happening. And in a couple of years, you all will be very happy it didn't.

It seems the conclusion of this thread, if you read it...that we don't need to trade him if we go to a 3-4.... but again... do you draft the best player or do you draft the positions needed? Do you trade for the best players or do you trade to fill the positions needed? do you fit the framework to the players or do the players fit the framework?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-29-2009, 10:04 AM
What would his value be anyway? We sure as hell better not trade him

We could probably get a 2nd for him. And I have no doubt a few people on this board would jump on it. Thank God they don't run this organization.

Mr. Flopnuts
01-29-2009, 10:05 AM
It seems the conclusion of this thread, if you read it...that we don't need to trade him if we go to a 3-4.... but again... do you draft the best player or do you draft the positions needed? Do you trade for the best players or do you trade to fill the positions needed? do you fit the framework to the players or do the players fit the framework?

IMO, BPA all day. Best player available. We have tons of holes to fill. And, ftr, I didn't read the thread. This scenario and the opinions of some of the people on this board irritate me too much. I'm working on acceptance, even if I think it's stupid. :)

As far as the framework goes, I think there has to be a balance there. You have guys that you just aren't going to get rid of, therefore you have to put them in a position to succeed. Glenn Dorsey, IMO, is definitely one of those guys.

Balto
01-29-2009, 10:08 AM
Dorsey would be great at DE in a 3-4!!!!!

Plus we just out and pick up Haynesworth to play NT and we WIN!!!!

some might not agree but I think Peppers would be a good 3-4 DE too. He would be on the smaller size of 3-4 DE's BUT he has the strength to over come 10-15 pounds. There are 3-4 DE's in the NFL that are smaller then Peppers so I think it would work.

NEXT YEAR with a 3-4

Our Dline:

Dorsey----Haynesworth-----Peppers

Then just draft heavy on LB's HEHEHE

Trade down to around 8-10 and draft Rey Maualuga (best 3-4 LB in draft) and then with those couple extra draft picks we get from trading down (probably a 2nd and a 2010 2nd) we trade back up into the first and take either James Laurinaitis OR Brian Cushing. So our D COULD look like this

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----Laurinaitis-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

OK Wake me up now HEHE

jspchief
01-29-2009, 10:10 AM
What would his value be anyway? We sure as hell better not trade himHis value has to be rock bottom atm. He's getting #5 overall pay, but has yet to prove he's worth it.

I can't imagine a worse time to try and move him.

The obvious move, if we go to a 3-4, is to put him at DE. The main problem is he'd be a very expensive player in a position that usually doesn't command that kind of money.

jspchief
01-29-2009, 10:11 AM
Dorsey would be great at DE in a 3-4!!!!!

Plus we just out and pick up Haynesworth to play NT and we WIN!!!!

some might not agree but I think Peppers would be a good 3-4 DE too. He would be on the smaller size of 3-4 DE's BUT he has the strength to over come 10-15 pounds. There are 3-4 DE's in the NFL that are smaller then Peppers so I think it would work.

NEXT YEAR with a 3-4

Our Dline:

Dorsey----Haynesworth-----Peppers

Then just draft heavy on LB's HEHEHE

Trade down to around 8-10 and draft Rey Maualuga (best 3-4 LB in draft) and then with those couple extra draft picks we get from trading down (probably a 2nd and a 2010 2nd) we trade back up into the first and take either James Laurinaitis OR Brian Cushing. So our D COULD look like this

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----Laurinaitis-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

OK Wake me up now HEHEHoly shit. Can I get some of what you're smoking?

Balto
01-29-2009, 10:17 AM
lol its good stuff.

I agree getting Haynesworth AND Peppers in FA probably not gonna happen, but I think we could get at least oen of them IF NOT Suggs as well to play LB.

Also: It will probably be hard to trade down unless the Raiders really want Crabtree, but I think IF we do trade down to around 10 we could get a couple of 2nd rounders (this year and a 2010)

So honestly this will never happen, but its not to far off lol.

Hardest part to think will happen is us getting 2 of those 3 studs in FA. Suggs/Peppers/Haynesworth. Hell guess we could get Haynesworth AND suggs and let Haynesworth play the other DE and Suggs LB /shrug

Mr. Flopnuts
01-29-2009, 10:44 AM
I'll reiterate, I never said I want this to happen but I could see this happening if Dorsey doesn't fit in Pioli's scheme.

I wasn't trying to imply you did personally. Sorry if it came across that way. But I know for fact some folks on this board would love to.

bowener
01-29-2009, 10:49 AM
lol its good stuff.

I agree getting Haynesworth AND Peppers in FA probably not gonna happen, but I think we could get at least oen of them IF NOT Suggs as well to play LB.

Also: It will probably be hard to trade down unless the Raiders really want Crabtree, but I think IF we do trade down to around 10 we could get a couple of 2nd rounders (this year and a 2010)

So honestly this will never happen, but its not to far off lol.

Hardest part to think will happen is us getting 2 of those 3 studs in FA. Suggs/Peppers/Haynesworth. Hell guess we could get Haynesworth AND suggs and let Haynesworth play the other DE and Suggs LB /shrug

Why would be get Peppers as a DE in a 3-4? If he wants to play in a 3-4 he said he will want to play OLB. He is not the type of guy you want for a 3-4 DE.

Dorsey would be fast enough. He as said to have a quick initial burst off the line when we drafted him. A 3-4 DE (as far as I understand) is meant to occupy a blocker (or 2) in the passing game. Say that GD is the RDE, he would/could take on the LT, freeing up the outside to the OLB to pass rush. In the run game the DE is supposed to make initial contact at the line, hold that point/blocker and then crash down the line to the ball (if it is away from them) as soon as they read the play. If the ball is run at them or away, then they can also hold up the T and G (if the NT does not get doubled by the same G and C), which will allow the LBers to make the play for them.

You need meaty guys to play this postion. Usually around 290-300 lbs. Dorsey seems to fit the mold to me, but I am by no means an expert. Some say he is too short... I dont know why being 6'1" or 6'2" hurts him if he is still strong at the point of attack. It would seem to me to be a benefit for him, since most T's are not 6'5" or so. It would give him leverage as long as he maintained better body and hand control on the blocker of course.

I also think that Tank will make a respectable NT. He will not be a Ngata most likely, but who else is 330lbs and moves like that man? Tank has the arm strength for sure, do his legs?? I dont know, but I would think the man has some powerful legs. I know he is listed at 306lbs on the Chiefs site, but there is no fucking way in this reality he ways that. He looks like a damn bowling ball with cannons strapped to the side.

I, by no means, think that we should stick soley with him. I would hope we signed another NT from FA, or drafted a stud rookie. The kid out of BC may be there with our 2nd pick, but he may also climb beyond that. I know there are some other good NT's too, just havent memorized them.

In the end we have no idea what D we are going to be running, but I would love to see a 3-4 in Arrowhead sometime soon. It seems to be more versatile, and it seems with the college DE's coming out now you have a better chance of getting a great OLB/tweener kid than getting a stud RDE for a 4-3 D.

dj56dt58
01-29-2009, 10:50 AM
why not play a balanced D? mix in some 3-4 and 4-3, then we can try him out at both positions and see what works best, while keeping the offense off guard

CoMoChief
01-29-2009, 10:51 AM
Who says we're gonna run a 3-4?

We don't even have a fucking HC yet.

jspchief
01-29-2009, 10:54 AM
Why would be get Peppers as a DE in a 3-4?

Because it only makes sense to take the best 4-3 DE in the league and move him to a less productive position.

bowener
01-29-2009, 10:54 AM
why not play a balanced D? mix in some 3-4 and 4-3, then we can try him out at both positions and see what works best, while keeping the offense off guard

This is what I would like most. I hate the patriots, but their D seems like it can run whatever scheme it wants. That would be ideal.

bowener
01-29-2009, 10:56 AM
Because it only makes sense to take the best 4-3 DE in the league and move him to a less productive position.

:)

Some forget that Carl no longer works for the Chiefs.

Balto
01-29-2009, 10:59 AM
Your right,

I forgot Peppers said he wants to play a OLB in a 3-4 ERRR.

So we just grab Haynesworth to play the other DE and Suggs/Peppers to play OLB. THEN instead of drafting Rey Mauagula at 8th we take B.J. Raji to play NT, but still draft James L. to play LB.

Dorsey-----Raji------Haynesworth

D. Williams---James L.------D. Johnson--------Suggs/Peppers

HMMMM this actually might be better then

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----James L.-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

HemiEd
01-29-2009, 11:05 AM
Failed Thread...A) Dorsey is going to be great, and secondly you build a team around its strengths, I really hope they don't go through and tear everything down this year.

I don't think Clark will allow it to happen. I think he wants to build on the foundation of young talent, that has already been sacrificed for.

My impression of Pioli is that he will do what is best for the team, not just his ego.

bowener
01-29-2009, 11:09 AM
Your right,

I forgot Peppers said he wants to play a OLB in a 3-4 ERRR.

So we just grab Haynesworth to play the other DE and Suggs/Peppers to play OLB. THEN instead of drafting Rey Mauagula at 8th we take B.J. Raji to play NT, but still draft James L. to play LB.

Dorsey-----Raji------Haynesworth

D. Williams---James L.------D. Johnson--------Suggs/Peppers

HMMMM this actually might be better then

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----James L.-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

You have got to be an ALT or something.....

Do you understand how much that would cost?? At all?

Dorsey is already ridiculously expensive, then you want to throw Haynesworth on this team at $10 million a year or more? Then on top of that you want to pay $60 million to Peppers to play a position he has never played. All of that, AND we then pay another defender we drafted $30-40 million??

WOW.

Demonpenz
01-29-2009, 12:26 PM
move tamba to outside line backer

B_Ambuehl
01-29-2009, 12:51 PM
If the Chiefs used this draft correctly they could build the ultimate 3-4 defense. They could take that #3 pick and trade down a few slots for a #2 and pick up B.J. Raji at NT. They could team him up with Dorsey just like NE did with Wilfork and Seymour. Then they could use both #2's and trade back into the first round for a starting 3-4 OLB or MLB. There will be starting caliber edge rushers available as late as the 3rd round.

Then they'd have a defense consisting of:

DT- Dorsey
NT- Raji
DT- ?
OLB- rookie
MLB- DJ
MLB- rookie
OLB- Tamba


It's nice to theorize. Hell, if they would've played things correclty tlast year they would've had Albert, Flowers, AND 3 first rounders in this years draft.

Frankie
01-29-2009, 12:54 PM
Why is EVERYBODY so convinced we will switch to 34? Has Pioli said that?

Mr. Laz
01-29-2009, 01:01 PM
Why is EVERYBODY so convinced we will switch to 34? Has Pioli said that?
no ... Pioli hasn't said anything at all, that's why everyone is just trying to anticipate what he might do.


it's all fun and games until somebody gets his penis ripped from his body by a wild raccoon.

bowener
01-29-2009, 01:02 PM
no ... Pioli hasn't said anything at all, that's why everyone is just trying to anticipate what he might do.


it's all fun and games until somebody gets his penis ripped from his body by a wild raccoon.

ROFL

Oh, jesus, REP for cross thread reference.

Frankie
01-29-2009, 01:35 PM
no ... Pioli hasn't said anything at all, that's why everyone is just trying to anticipate what he might do.


it's all fun and games until somebody gets his penis ripped from his body by a wild raccoon.

I would assume Pioli should know more than one way to build a team, especially on Defense. I would think our roster right now is more geared toward 43 and I doubt he will INSIST in switching. Maybe in a few years, but not necessarily right away.

OnTheWarpath58
01-29-2009, 01:39 PM
It's nice to theorize. Hell, if they would've played things correclty tlast year they would've had Albert, Flowers, AND 3 first rounders in this years draft.

WTF are you talking about?

Who was going to give us 2 first round picks, and for WHO?

B_Ambuehl
01-29-2009, 06:01 PM
The Saints offered a 1st this year and a 7th last year to move up from their #10 to our #5. The Panthers offered a 1st this year and a 2nd last year to move up from wherever they were and get our other 1st rounder to snag Otah. Bottom line is we would've had Albert at #10, Flowers with our 2nd rounder, someone else with our other 2nd rounder (from Carolina), and 2 additional first rounders this year.

RNR
01-29-2009, 06:42 PM
Talk about buying at the peak and selling in the valley. I have said several times it takes two years or more for a guy at that position to get it. Pay top and sell bottom is crazy to me. As a rival I hope this happens.

OnTheWarpath58
01-29-2009, 09:13 PM
The Saints offered a 1st this year and a 7th last year to move up from their #10 to our #5. The Panthers offered a 1st this year and a 2nd last year to move up from wherever they were and get our other 1st rounder to snag Otah. Bottom line is we would've had Albert at #10, Flowers with our 2nd rounder, someone else with our other 2nd rounder (from Carolina), and 2 additional first rounders this year.

:LOL:

Hey Dane, I'll leave this low hanging fruit for you...

rad
01-29-2009, 09:22 PM
I would assume Pioli should know more than one way to build a team, especially on Defense. I would think our roster right now is more geared toward 43 and I doubt he will INSIST in switching. Maybe in a few years, but not necessarily right away.


Plus, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Dorsey could play end..........










:D

rad
01-29-2009, 09:24 PM
:LOL:

Hey Dane, I'll leave this low hanging fruit for you...


Can't you just say "kill yourself" or "go play in traffic", or maybe" kindly stick a fork in your eye"

Or maybe this:

OnTheWarpath58
01-29-2009, 09:25 PM
Can't you just say "kill yourself" or "go play in traffic", or maybe" kindly stick a fork in your eye"

Or maybe this:

I'm definitely stealing that image.

It WILL be used.

rad
01-29-2009, 09:26 PM
I'm definitely stealing that image.

It WILL be used.

Well you won't be stealing it. Consider it a gift.

(just don't use it on me, m'kay)

OnTheWarpath58
01-29-2009, 09:31 PM
Well you won't be stealing it. Consider it a gift.

(just don't use it on me, m'kay)

As long as you don't try to pass off dispelled rumors about the Saints and Panthers offering us picks, or say we should trade down four times in the 1st round, you're safe.

bowener
01-29-2009, 09:31 PM
I would assume Pioli should know more than one way to build a team, especially on Defense. I would think our roster right now is more geared toward 43 and I doubt he will INSIST in switching. Maybe in a few years, but not necessarily right away.

Right now it is geared towards FAIL. It is not a very impressive grouping of talent, so this may be the best time to make the switch, rather than accrue a bunch of players to have a good 43 team and waste a few years. We can bite the bullet and hope that Dorsey works out as a 34 DE and get the talent needed to play a 34. Keeping Dorsey, and hoping he pans out as a good DE, also gives us great versatility to switch back to a 43 lineup during a game if it is better suited for stopping the opponent.

Ebolapox
01-29-2009, 09:32 PM
Dorsey would be great at DE in a 3-4!!!!!

Plus we just out and pick up Haynesworth to play NT and we WIN!!!!

some might not agree but I think Peppers would be a good 3-4 DE too. He would be on the smaller size of 3-4 DE's BUT he has the strength to over come 10-15 pounds. There are 3-4 DE's in the NFL that are smaller then Peppers so I think it would work.

NEXT YEAR with a 3-4

Our Dline:

Dorsey----Haynesworth-----Peppers

Then just draft heavy on LB's HEHEHE

Trade down to around 8-10 and draft Rey Maualuga (best 3-4 LB in draft) and then with those couple extra draft picks we get from trading down (probably a 2nd and a 2010 2nd) we trade back up into the first and take either James Laurinaitis OR Brian Cushing. So our D COULD look like this

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----Laurinaitis-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

OK Wake me up now HEHE

you're a tard. peppers is a 3-4 rushbacker. he's not a 3-4 de. 3-4 defensive ends hold their point of attack, they don't blitz. they're space fillers. so you burn through your cap room by signing two players to the richest contracts for defensive linemen EVER, then proceed to play ONE of them completely out of position. you put probably 160 million dollars into your defensive line, in which 2/3 of the line is playing out of position. THEN, you somehow get two first round picks and draft two MLBs?

you never go full retard, man.

Ebolapox
01-29-2009, 09:36 PM
Your right,

I forgot Peppers said he wants to play a OLB in a 3-4 ERRR.

So we just grab Haynesworth to play the other DE and Suggs/Peppers to play OLB. THEN instead of drafting Rey Mauagula at 8th we take B.J. Raji to play NT, but still draft James L. to play LB.

Dorsey-----Raji------Haynesworth

D. Williams---James L.------D. Johnson--------Suggs/Peppers

HMMMM this actually might be better then

Dorsey------Haynesworth------Peppers

D. Williams-----James L.-----------Maualuga------D. Johnson

alright. you've become even stupider.

WHERE THE FUCK DO WE GET TWO FIRST ROUND PICKS? raji is a top ten pick after his senior bowl performance. lauranitis is likely a first round pick.

so, you still have 160 million dollars tied into your front three (unimportant in a 3-4, except for the nose tackle). fail.

bowener
01-29-2009, 09:37 PM
Plus, I'm pretty sure I read somewhere that Dorsey could play end..........
:D
I found this article (http://www.nfldraftdog.com/2008_nfl_draft/glenn_dorsey.htm) a few weeks back.

In terms of sheer movement skills, Dorsey could conceivably play DE in any style of front. He might be a bit slow for the position, but the man does move like he’s 30 lbs lighter. Watching Dorsey against LSU, I had chills thinking about him playing next too John Henderson and Marcus Stroud on the Jaguars D-line. A pipe dream sure, but that would be the best run-stopping unit in the league immediately. I’ve heard his name get mentioned as a possible 3-4 nose tackle if he goes to Miami, which is a mistake. That is not Dorsey’s game and I don’t think he would be effective in that role. He is far better on the move and getting penetration. His game is disruption, not occupation. He can be a 3-4 end though. He has the ability and drive to be a Richard Seymour type, but his most effective position is at tackle in a cover-2 (4-3) or attacking defense such as the Eagles.


Eagles run a 3-4 right?

Tribal Warfare
01-29-2009, 09:39 PM
you're a tard. peppers is a 3-4 rushbacker. he's not a 3-4 de. 3-4 defensive ends hold their point of attack, they don't blitz. they're space fillers. so you burn through your cap room by signing two players to the richest contracts for defensive linemen EVER, then proceed to play ONE of them completely out of position. you put probably 160 million dollars into your defensive line, in which 2/3 of the line is playing out of position. THEN, you somehow get two first round picks and draft two MLBs?

you never go full retard, man.


n00bs

rad
01-29-2009, 09:49 PM
As long as you don't try to pass off dispelled rumors about the Saints and Panthers offering us picks, or say we should trade down four times in the 1st round, you're safe.

I'm not a busybody, and rarely start threads.

As far as the draft goes, don't the Eagles have 2 first rounders......?







j/k ;)

bowener
01-29-2009, 09:51 PM
Another site (http://mvn.com/homeofthechiefs/2009/01/does-scott-pioli-3-4-defense.html)about Dorsey in the 3-4.

So the attractiveness of the 3-4 is that while the Chiefs would be challenged with the very difficult task of finding two outstanding defensive ends to make the 4-3 work, they would need to find only one outstanding nose tackle to make a 3-4 work. Arguably, the Chiefs aren't as far away from running a 3-4 as people might think.

While a Cover 2 defense might suit the strengths of Carr and Flowers, both have shown the lockdown ability to be able to handle man-to-man situations and to cover for an eternity. The question becomes, who on the defensive line could make an impact in a 3-4? Tamba Hali would probably need to be phased out, but there is reason to believe Glenn Dorsey, Tank Tyler, and Turk McBride could all fare well in this defense. I actually think Turk McBride could excel in this defense. Dorsey is a bit of an interesting situation. First, it would be tough to justify using a #5 pick on a 3-4 DE. Second, I worry that Dorsey might be a little short for the position and that the position would not fully utilize his talents. Either way, you can't let one player like Dorsey dictate what defense you want to run.

In order to change to this defense, the Chiefs would likely need to get an impact nose tackle, a few outside linebackers, and a DE/OLB tweener. For the DE/OLB tweener, you could quickly revamp that position by investing in a guy like Terrell Suggs who will likely carry a lower price tag than Julius Peppers and probably has a lot more gas in the tank. You can also look into trading down and drafting a player like Aaron Maybin, who could be a great fit for that role. From a LB standpoint, you have multiple options. You can take a stud LB like Rey Maualuga, who would be a good fit for the inside, or you can even look in later rounds for linebackers like Brian Cushing. There also could be a wealth of free agent options this offseason.

I don't know that there is any difference in effectiveness between the 3-4 and the 4-3 in terms of overall effectiveness and am not necessarily supporting one defense or the other, but I think the most obvious advantage is that it is just a much easier defense to build. Scott Pioli has what is pretty close to a blank chalkboard to work with right now and it will be interesting to see if the moves he makes will suggest a shift to the defense he seemed to love when he was in New England. Given that two of the four defenses in the playoffs right now are dominant 3-4's, I don't see much reason why the Chiefs shouldn't at least look into it.

OnTheWarpath58
01-29-2009, 09:56 PM
I'm not a busybody, and rarely start threads.

As far as the draft goes, don't the Eagles have 2 first rounders......?







j/k ;)

They do, and it's already been brought up eleventy billion times - just like Dallas last year.

Ebolapox
01-29-2009, 09:57 PM
ya know, it wouldn't shock me in the least if we go to a hybrid defense like the ravens, patriots, and (rarely) steelers do--a base 4-3 defense with a 3-4 look... or vice versa.

B_Ambuehl
01-30-2009, 12:14 PM
As long as you don't try to pass off dispelled rumors about the Saints and Panthers offering us picks

Those aren't rumors. The Carolina trade offer is well known in Carolina circles and has been written about multiple times this year by members of their media. They contacted several teams with that deal trying to move up for Otah before Philly finally took them up on it, which is why Philly has an extra 1st rounder this year. The Saints trade was reported by Adam Schefter on nfl.com. The only "rumor" was that the Saints had offered a 1st and 2nd in '09. They offered 1st and 7th, not 1st and 2nd.

B_Ambuehl
01-30-2009, 12:30 PM
In fact, here's an article regarding the Carolina trade.

http://www.sportingnews.com/yourturn/viewtopic.php?t=495859

Bold draft-day deal for Otah transformed Panthers

HARLOTTE, N.C. (AP) -- Rookie right tackle Jeff Otah kept opening giant holes Monday and rookie running back Jonathan Stewart kept rumbling through them. The night ended with the Carolina Panthers rushing for a team-record 299 yards in a decisive win over Tampa Bay.

And general manager Marty Hurney looked like the shrewdest guy at Bank of America Stadium.

Hurney's bold, draft-day trade that sent next year's first-round pick to Philadelphia for an extra first-round choice this year allowed the Panthers to get both Stewart and Otah, key additions in Carolina's turnaround from 7-9 a year ago to 10-3 this season.

"We felt like the combination of Jeff and Jonathan would certainly help enhance the personality of our offense," Hurney said Wednesday.

But getting them required a risky move that was met with plenty of skepticism back in April.

After missing the playoffs for the second straight season, Hurney and coach John Fox were under pressure to fix things quickly. They dumped running back DeShaun Foster, made DeAngelo Williams the starter and wanted another back.

But the Panthers also were determined to get bigger on the offensive line. So as they gathered on the morning of the first day of the draft to decide what to do with the 13th overall pick, they mapped out a venturesome plan.

"We made the decision coming in that we were going to take Jonathan," Hurney said. "But immediately after we made the pick we would get on the phone and see if anybody was interested in giving us their first round pick. ... We thought Jeff was that good and he fit into what we were trying to do."

Stewart was still there at No. 13, so the Panthers took the powerful, stocky Oregon product. Hurney then got on the phone with Chicago, Kansas City, Arizona, Detroit and Baltimore. All declined his offer.

But the 6-foot-6, 330-pound Otah was still there at No. 19, and Philadelphia was willing to make a deal with Hurney. The Eagles were also weighing at least one other offer.

Hurney waited anxiously, and with three minutes left before having to make a selection, the deal was made.

The Panthers agreed to send their second- and fourth-round picks this year and their first-round choice next year for the 19th pick. The Panthers then quickly selected Otah, whose stock had dropped because of a lingering ankle injury from his senior year at Pittsburgh.

"You never like trading away draft picks at all. But I think the feeling was we were confident in our evaluations of him," Hurney said. "We felt like big, athletic tackles like Jeff are hard to find. He fit into what we want to do."

That was on display Monday night, when Otah dominated the left side of the Buccaneers' defensive line. Stewart (115 yards rushing) and Williams (186) raced through huge holes as the Panthers took sole possession of first place in the NFC South.

"Both running backs did a great job running for all those yards," said the soft-spoken Otah. "That's the first time I did something like that, so it was kind of cool."

While it looks like a great move now, the draft-day deal could have been disastrous. What if Stewart and Otah didn't produce? What if the Panthers failed to have a winning record for the third straight year and were faced with having no first-round pick next year?

"You don't have a first-round pick in '09. Well, that's right. We have him in '08 and he's a year ahead of the '09 first-round pick," quarterback Jake Delhomme said. "It was a guy they targeted and a guy they wanted, obviously. To me, that's smart drafting. If that's what you want, go out and get it and hopefully it works out. So far we think it has."

But even Delhomme acknowledged some frustration early. Otah couldn't participate in some offseason workouts as he recovered from his ankle injury. Stewart was also sidelined as he worked his way back from toe surgery.

The patience paid off. Stewart and Williams have become one of the top rushing tandems in the league, and Otah has been a key cog in an improved offensive line.

Plus, the more the Panthers win, the happier Hurney gets and the lower that first-round pick will be for the Eagles next season.

"We know we want to run the football," Hurney said. "When we've been successful we've been a downhill running team. So to be able to do that against a very good defense it obviously makes you feel good."

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 12:36 PM
The Saints rumor has been refuted by everyone EXCEPT Schefter. It's been discussed here ad nauseum.

Regarding Carolina: You're making assumptions that the Panthers made the same offer to Chicago, Kansas City, Arizona, Detroit and Baltimore that they did to Philly.

But please, keep telling us how we fucked up by not having eleventy billion 1st round picks...

crazycoffey
01-30-2009, 12:57 PM
All I know is that there are some articles on the net that say he could possibly play 3-4 DE rather well. He will essentially be doing the same thing as a DE as he did in LSU as a DT. Holding up the point of attack and crashing down the line in the run game. He was not drafted here to be a Warren Sapp, though it was argued. He is not an elite pass rushing DT.

Also, he and Sedrick Ellis make some rather good 3-4 DE's on my Madden team..... currently have Ellis, but used Dorsey as such once.


besides the Madden part, this is what I've heard too, and no one has debunked this theory to me, why won't he work in a 3-4?

B_Ambuehl
01-30-2009, 12:58 PM
Blah blah blah.

People like you are the same folks who make excuses saying we got the better end of the Jared Allen trade too.

LOL

No wonder this team always sucks. When the fans are that f'in stupid incompetency doesn't matter.

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 12:59 PM
besides the Madden part, this is what I've heard too, and no one has debunked this theory to me, why won't he work in a 3-4?

I don't think it's an issue of him being a solid DE in a 3-4 scheme, but that people have a problem using the 5th overall pick on a position that isn't very important.

Now, if he made the switch and turned into Richard Seymour, case closed.

Otherwise, I think people are concerned about "wasting" high draft pick.

rad
01-30-2009, 01:02 PM
I don't think it's an issue of him being a solid DE in a 3-4 scheme, but that people have a problem using the 5th overall pick on a position that isn't very important.

Now, if he made the switch and turned into Richard Seymour, case closed.

Otherwise, I think people are concerned about "wasting" high draft pick.

Why isn't a 34 DE important compared to a 43 DE?

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 01:04 PM
Why isn't a 34 DE important compared to a 43 DE?

They aren't valued as high, because you can find competent 34 DE's later in the draft. The responsibility of a 34 DE is to keep the OL off the LB's, so they can make plays, where the 43 DE is used as a pass rusher.

NT is the value position on the line - they are hard to find.

rad
01-30-2009, 01:11 PM
They aren't valued as high, because you can find competent 34 DE's later in the draft. The responsibility of a 34 DE is to keep the OL off the LB's, so they can make plays, where the 43 DE is used as a pass rusher.

NT is the value position on the line - they are hard to find.

Ah, thanks.

So Dorsey wouldn't be a good NT just because of his size and/or technique set?

bowener
01-30-2009, 01:12 PM
They aren't valued as high, because you can find competent 34 DE's later in the draft. The responsibility of a 34 DE is to keep the OL off the LB's, so they can make plays, where the 43 DE is used as a pass rusher.

NT is the value position on the line - they are hard to find.

I believe Pioli spent a #6 pick on a 34 DE... that seems rather close to the #5 we spent on Dorsey. Dorsey has also been compared to Seymour as a DE prospect.

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 01:16 PM
Ah, thanks.

So Dorsey wouldn't be a good NT just because of his size and/or technique set?

Size.

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 01:18 PM
I don't think it's an issue of him being a solid DE in a 3-4 scheme, but that people have a problem using the 5th overall pick on a position that isn't very important.

Now, if he made the switch and turned into Richard Seymour, case closed.

Otherwise, I think people are concerned about "wasting" high draft pick.

I believe Pioli spent a #6 pick on a 34 DE... that seems rather close to the #5 we spent on Dorsey. Dorsey has also been compared to Seymour as a DE prospect.

I've yet to see anyone who compared him to Seymour coming out, but like I said in the above post - if he turned into Seymour, then you're fine.

But that's a tall order.