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AJKCFAN
01-30-2009, 02:12 PM
Tomorrow's the day. As long as someone can keep Gretz at the breakfast buffet and let ANYONE else state DT's case, #58 might make it to Canton this time!

http://www.profootballhof.com/enshrinement/story.jsp?story_id=3071

Four first-year eligible players, John Randle, Shannon Sharpe, Bruce Smith, and Rod Woodson, are among the 17 finalists who will be considered for election to the Pro Football Hall of Fame when the Hall’s Board of Selectors meets in Tampa, Florida on Saturday, January 31, 2009.

Joining the four first-year eligible players, are nine other modern-era players, two contributors and two players nominated earlier by the Hall of Fame’s Senior Committee. The contributor finalists are former National Football League Commissioner Paul Tagliabue and Buffalo Bills founder/owner Ralph Wilson, Jr. The Senior Committee nominees, announced in August 2008, are former Dallas Cowboys wide receiver Bob Hayes and former Atlanta Falcons defensive end Claude Humphrey. The other modern-era player finalists include wide receiver Cris Carter; center Dermontti Dawson; defensive end Richard Dent; guard Russ Grimm; defensive tackle Cortez Kennedy; guard Bob Kuechenberg; guard Randall McDaniel; wide receiver Andre Reed; and linebacker Derrick Thomas.

To be elected, a finalist must receive a minimum positive vote of 80 percent.

Listed alphabetically, the 17 finalists with their positions, teams, and years active follow:

Cris Carter – Wide Receiver – 1987-89 Philadelphia Eagles, 1990-2001 Minnesota Vikings, 2002 Miami Dolphins
Dermontti Dawson – Center – 1988-2000 Pittsburgh Steelers
Richard Dent – Defensive End – 1983-1993, 1995 Chicago Bears, 1994 San Francisco 49ers, 1996 Indianapolis Colts, 1997 Philadelphia Eagles
Russ Grimm – Guard – 1981-1991 Washington Redskins
Bob Hayes – Wide Receiver – 1965-1974 Dallas Cowboys, 1975 San Francisco 49ers
Claude Humphrey – Defensive End – 1968-1978 Atlanta Falcons, 1979-1981 Philadelphia Eagles
Cortez Kennedy – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Seattle Seahawks
Bob Kuechenberg – Guard – 1970-1984 Miami Dolphins
Randall McDaniel – Guard – 1988-1999 Minnesota Vikings, 2000-01 Tampa Bay Buccaneers
John Randle – Defensive Tackle – 1990-2000 Minnesota Vikings, 2001-03 Seattle Seahawks
Andre Reed – Wide Receiver – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000 Washington Redskins
Shannon Sharpe – Tight End – 1990-99, 2002-03 Denver Broncos, 2000-01 Baltimore Ravens
Bruce Smith – Defensive End – 1985-1999 Buffalo Bills, 2000-03 Washington Redskins
Paul Tagliabue – Commissioner – 1989-2006 National Football League
Derrick Thomas – Linebacker – 1989-1999 Kansas City Chiefs
Ralph Wilson – Team Founder/Owner – 1960-Present Buffalo Bills
Rod Woodson – Cornerback/Safety – 1987-1996 Pittsburgh Steelers, 1997 San Francisco 49ers, 1998-2001 Baltimore Ravens, 2002-03 Oakland Raiders

Carter, Dent, Grimm, Hayes, Humphrey, Kuechenberg, McDaniel, Reed, Tagliabue, Thomas, and Wilson have all been finalists in previous years. Although they were eligible in previous years, this is the first time Dawson and Kennedy have been finalists.

From this year’s list, five players – Dawson, Grimm, Kennedy, Kuechenberg and Thomas – spent their entire NFL career with just one team.

Hayes and Humphrey were selected as senior candidates by the Hall of Fame’s Seniors Committee at their August 2008 meeting. The Seniors Committee reviews the qualifications of those players whose careers took place more than 25 years ago. The remaining 15 modern-era finalists were determined by a vote of the Hall’s 44-member Board of Selectors from a list of 133 preliminary nominees that earlier was reduced to a list of 25 semifinalists. To be eligible for election, modern-era players and coaches must be retired at least five years while a contributor need not be retired.

At the 2009 election meeting, the selectors will thoroughly discuss the careers of each finalist before narrowing the field to seven candidates (two senior and five modern-era). At least four candidates must be elected but the total class cannot number more than seven.

Of the 2009 finalists, Hayes has been eligible for 29 years, Humphrey 23 years, Kuechenberg 20 years, Grimm 13 years, Dent seven years, Thomas five years, Dawson, Kennedy and Reed four years, McDaniel three years, Carter two years, and Randle, Sharpe, Smith, and Woodson are in their first year of eligibility. Contributors need not to be retired to be considered for Hall of Fame election. Therefore there is no specific year at which Tagliabue and Wilson first became eligible for consideration.

The Class of 2009 will be announced at a press conference at 2:30 p.m. (ET) on Saturday, January 31, at the Super Bowl media center.


Shannon Sharpe
Representatives of the accounting firm Deloitte & Touche will tabulate all votes during the meeting. At the press conference, they will present Pro Football Hall of Fame President/Executive Director Steve Perry with an envelope containing the names of the nominees elected. Each newly elected member will be contacted immediately by the Hall of Fame. Members of the Class of 2009 in Tampa for the Super Bowl will be asked to join the press conference. Those not able to attend will be asked to join via teleconference.

The Enshrinement of the Class of 2009 will take place at the Pro Football Hall of Fame in Canton, on Saturday, August 8, 2009. The Enshrinement Ceremony will be televised live by both ESPN and the NFL Network. The annual Hall of Fame Game will be played on Sunday, August 9, 2009 at 8:00 p.m. and broadcast live by NBC. Teams have not yet been announced.

The Pro Football Hall of Fame Enshrinement Festival, a multi-day celebration of the enshrinement of the newest Hall of Fame Class, is held each year in Canton. The festival which culminates with the Enshrinement Ceremony and NFL Hall of Fame Game includes 15 special public events over an 11-day period. Two major events are the Enshrinees Dinner (Friday, August 7), and the Enshrinees GameDay Roundtable (Sunday, August 9). It is at the Enshrinees Dinner where each member of the Class of 2009 will be presented his gold Pro Football Hall of Fame Jacket. At the Enshrinees GameDay Roundtable, the Class of 2009 will be featured center stage as they share memories of the game and their personal feelings about being inducted into the Pro Football Hall of Fame.

RustShack
01-30-2009, 02:13 PM
Hes not going to make it :(

Stewie
01-30-2009, 02:27 PM
It sounds like his chances are slim with a strong field this year.

Brock
01-30-2009, 02:30 PM
I think it comes down to him vs. Richard Dent.

dirk digler
01-30-2009, 02:30 PM
This will be the year DT makes it. I think momentum is in his favor.

Also I was reading something the other day where Sharpe said he doesn't think he will make it. That kind of shocked me considering he has 3 SB rings and had the receiving and TD records until Tony passed him.

Jerm
01-30-2009, 02:31 PM
I think we're in for another year of disappointment.

Gretz needs to get the hell out and let someone else make the case for DT.

soopamanluva
01-30-2009, 02:54 PM
I don't think he will make it this time either, too many others on there with superbowl appearances. He needs to make it tho.

SCTrojan
01-30-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm holding out a bit of hope, but think he'll be passed by again.

chiefs1111
01-30-2009, 03:06 PM
I think he will get in eventually but I don't think he will get in this year....

AJKCFAN
01-30-2009, 03:09 PM
DT in 1990 had twice as many sacks as the ENTIRE 2008 Chiefs D!

Rain Man
01-30-2009, 03:10 PM
This will be the year where Gretz goes in and screws it up again, but some reporter from Oakland or San Diego will get exasperated and stand up and say, "That guy KILLED us! He was unstoppable! I don't know why this Gretz fellow can't communicate that, but seriously, Derrick Thomas should be in the Hall of Fame." And then he'll get in.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 03:11 PM
The locks are Bruce Smith, Rod Woodson and probably Sharpe. I think DT makes it this year.

rambleonthruthefog
01-30-2009, 03:14 PM
looks like hed be the last one in if he made it.

Count Alex's Losses
01-30-2009, 03:24 PM
I'm trying to figure out why Ralph Wilson is being considered. He's a terrible owner. Cheapskate. Bills fans hate him.

KCrockaholic
01-30-2009, 03:27 PM
The locks are Bruce Smith, Rod Woodson and probably Sharpe. I think DT makes it this year.

Chris Carter? John Randle? It will be very difficult for DT to get in, its very sad. Its been to long, hes arguably the greatest Chief of all time, next to TG, Lenny, Buck, yet they still wont put him in.

KCrockaholic
01-30-2009, 03:28 PM
I'm trying to figure out why Ralph Wilson is being considered. He's a terrible owner. Cheapskate. Bills fans hate him.

cuz he was old...Same reason Al Davis will get in some day

Buck
01-30-2009, 03:28 PM
When do they announce it?

Brock
01-30-2009, 03:29 PM
cuz he was old...Same reason Al Davis will get in some day

He got in a long time ago.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Chris Carter? John Randle? It will be very difficult for DT to get in, its very sad. Its been to long, hes arguably the greatest Chief of all time, next to TG, Lenny, Buck, yet they still wont put him in.

Cris Carter should, but he's not a lock. John Randle and his 7 pro bowls, 556 tackles and 137.5 sacks in 14 years should not get in before DT's 9 pro bowls, 642 tackles and 126.5 sacks in 11 years.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 03:31 PM
When do they announce it?

2:30pm Saturday.

Learn to read, boltsucker.

unothadeal
01-30-2009, 03:37 PM
Was DT still playing when he died or had he retired?

Buck
01-30-2009, 03:38 PM
2:30pm Saturday.

Learn to read, boltsucker.

Suck my d*** gator-bater

StcChief
01-30-2009, 03:43 PM
I think we're in for another year of disappointment.

Gretz needs to get the hell out and let someone else make the case for DT.this. Costas (STL Native), Bernie Michlaz (STL Post) could do a much better job.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 03:45 PM
Was DT still playing when he died or had he retired?

DT had not retired.

DTLB58
01-30-2009, 03:46 PM
Very tough class this year as we discussed yesterday in the DT video tribute thread.

At first I didn't think he would make it this year, but you know, I think he makes it the year that we expect it the least.

I have been seeing the #58 associated with everything I do the last 2 weeks. I think it's some kind of omen.

I have also started to hear some of the voters mention DT and that they think his time is near.

List of selectors below: http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp



Pro Football Hall of Fame Board of Selectors

Arizona Kent Somers, Arizona Republic
Atlanta Len Pasquarelli, ESPN.com
Baltimore Scott Garceau, WMAR-TV
Buffalo Mark Gaughan, Buffalo News
Carolina Charles Chandler, Charlotte Observer
Chicago Dan Pompei, Chicago Tribune
Cincinnati Chick Ludwig, Dayton Daily News
Cleveland Tony Grossi, Cleveland Plain Dealer
Dallas Rick Gosselin, Dallas Morning News*
Denver Jeff Legwold, Rocky Mountain News
Detroit Tom Kowalski, Booth Newspapers
Green Bay Cliff Christl, Milwaukee Journal Sentinel
Houston John McClain, Houston Chronicle*
Indianapolis Mike Chappell, Indianapolis Star
Jacksonville Sam Kouvaris, WJXT-TV
Kansas City Bob Gretz, KCFX Overland Park, KS
Miami Edwin Pope, Miami Herald*
Minnesota Sid Hartman, The Minneapolis Star-Tribune
New England Ron Borges, HBO Sports/Pro Football Weekly
New Orleans Pete Finney, Times-Picayune
New York (Giants) Vinny DiTrani, Bergen Record
New York (Jets) Paul Zimmerman, Sports Illustrated
Oakland Frank Cooney, The Sports Xchange
Philadelphia Paul Domowitch, Philadelphia Daily News
Pittsburgh Ed Bouchette, Pittsburgh Post-Gazette
St. Louis Bernie Miklasz, St. Louis Post-Dispatch
San Diego Nick Canepa, San Diego Union Tribune
San Francisco Nancy Gay, San Francisco Chronicle
Seattle Clare Farnsworth, Seattle Post-Intelligencer
Tampa Bay Ira Kaufman, Tampa Tribune
Tennessee David Climer, The Tennessean
Washington David Elfin, Washington Times
PFWA Alex Marvez, FOXSports.com
At Large Howard Balzer, The Sports Xchange
At Large Jarrett Bell, USA Today
At Large John Clayton, ESPN/ESPN Magazine
At Large John Czarnecki, FoxSports.com
At Large Dave Goldberg, Associated Press*
At Large Peter King, Sports Illustrated
At Large Ira Miller, The Sports Xchange
At Large Len Shapiro, Miami Herald*
At Large Vito Stellino, Florida Times Union
At Large Jim Trotter, Sports Illustrated
At Large Charean Williams, Ft. Worth Star Telegram



* Also serves on the Senior Selection Committee. There is one selector still to be determined who will serve on the Senior Selection Committee.

HemiEd
01-30-2009, 03:48 PM
This will be the year DT makes it. I think momentum is in his favor.

Also I was reading something the other day where Sharpe said he doesn't think he will make it. That kind of shocked me considering he has 3 SB rings and had the receiving and TD records until Tony passed him.

Do you think Shannon Sharpe was being serious, or was it a horse's ass attempt at being humble? (decoder ring needed to understand him)

Every time I have heard him discuss it on the Sirius channel, he goes into this painful dialogue about how great he was.

HemiEd
01-30-2009, 03:50 PM
I'm trying to figure out why Ralph Wilson is being considered. He's a terrible owner. Cheapskate. Bills fans hate him.

I agree, but he is an expansion team owner, 1960.

Buck
01-30-2009, 03:50 PM
I guarantee you that the voters from Denver/KC/Oakland/San Diego/Seattle vote for him every year.

AJKCFAN
01-30-2009, 03:51 PM
Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson are the only locks to make it, IMHO.

warrior
01-30-2009, 03:56 PM
I think we're in for another year of disappointment.

Gretz needs to get the hell out and let someone else make the case for DT.

Hope not but your right about Gretz.

DJJasonp
01-30-2009, 03:58 PM
Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson are the only locks to make it, IMHO.

Loved Rod Woodson as a player....but now on to Smith...which gets me fired up every year about this time...

Smith was a very good player (maybe great?)...but his per game numbers are lower than DT's in most categories:

Sacks per game:
Smith: .72
Thomas: .75

Forced fumbles:
Smith: .15
Thomas: .24

Tackles:
Smith: 3.86
Thomas:3.56

Thomas had 19 Fumble recoveries...Smith 15

Super Bowls:
Smith: 0-4
Thomas: 0-0 :)

CoMoChief
01-30-2009, 04:08 PM
This years field is too strong. No way he makes it.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 04:12 PM
Loved Rod Woodson as a player....but now on to Smith...which gets me fired up every year about this time...

Smith was a very good player (maybe great?)...but his per game numbers are lower than DT's in most categories:

Sacks per game:
Smith: .72
Thomas: .75

Forced fumbles:
Smith: .15
Thomas: .24

Tackles:
Smith: 3.86
Thomas:3.56

Thomas had 19 Fumble recoveries...Smith 15

Super Bowls:
Smith: 0-4
Thomas: 0-0 :)

Ok, so Smith played too long. If you take his time just with Buffalo his sacks per game number jumps to 0.78.

DJJasonp
01-30-2009, 04:14 PM
Ok, so Smith played too long. If you take his time just with Buffalo his sacks per game number jumps to 0.78.

The point I was making is that DT gets screwed because he lost 4-5 more years of stats because of his untimely death.

To effectively evaluate his career, you really need to put the per game stats into the equation to see how much of a force he was.

FAX
01-30-2009, 04:15 PM
Uhhh.

This is probably a stupid question. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. But, why is Gretz carrying the water for DT on this deal? Who appointed him to do it? How does that work, anyhow? Did he volunteer? Was he named in DT's will? Did the Chiefs give him the responsibility? Does he get to keep on trying until he chokes on a chicken bone or can somebody else have a turn?

FAX

Sure-Oz
01-30-2009, 04:18 PM
I certainly hope so, it's way overdue.

DaKCMan AP
01-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Uhhh.

This is probably a stupid question. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. But, why is Gretz carrying the water for DT on this deal? Who appointed him to do it? How does that work, anyhow? Did he volunteer? Was he named in DT's will? Did the Chiefs give him the responsibility? Does he get to keep on trying until he chokes on a chicken bone or can somebody else have a turn?

FAX

http://www.profootballhof.com/hof/selectionprocess.jsp

Fruit Ninja
01-30-2009, 04:19 PM
Cris Carter should, but he's not a lock. John Randle and his 7 pro bowls, 556 tackles and 137.5 sacks in 14 years should not get in before DT's 9 pro bowls, 642 tackles and 126.5 sacks in 11 years.

He did that while playing DT i believe, that makes that shit much much much more impressive.

Fruit Ninja
01-30-2009, 04:21 PM
Uhhh.

This is probably a stupid question. In fact, I'm pretty sure it is. But, why is Gretz carrying the water for DT on this deal? Who appointed him to do it? How does that work, anyhow? Did he volunteer? Was he named in DT's will? Did the Chiefs give him the responsibility? Does he get to keep on trying until he chokes on a chicken bone or can somebody else have a turn?

FAX
Dont think for a minute that Anyone presenting anything to the NFL or the writers has anything to do with it. writers have that shit in their mind who they want long before some fucking presentation. People want to lay the blame on Gretz and imo is the wrong thing to do.

If his impressive stats dont get him in, then i dunno what the fuck will. You could have his son make the presentation and i dont think it would matter.

Planetman
01-30-2009, 04:22 PM
If someone assassinates Gretz, D.T. might have a shot this year.

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 04:29 PM
Dont think for a minute that Anyone presenting anything to the NFL or the writers has anything to do with it. writers have that shit in their mind who they want long before some fucking presentation. People want to lay the blame on Gretz and imo is the wrong thing to do.

If his impressive stats dont get him in, then i dunno what the fuck will. You could have his son make the presentation and i dont think it would matter.

Not true.

I've spoken to Bernie Miklasz several times, on and off air about DT, and Gretz' presentation.

Bernie made it perfectly clear that if he were doing the presentation, DT would already be in. That's saying a lot, because Bernie typically isn't a "pound his chest" kind of guy.

FWIW, Miklasz and Howard Balzer (both from STL) vote for DT every year...

DeezNutz
01-30-2009, 04:31 PM
Not true.

I've spoken to Bernie Miklasz several times, on and off air about DT, and Gretz' presentation.

Bernie made it perfectly clear that if he were doing the presentation, DT would already be in. That's saying a lot, because Bernie typically isn't a "pound his chest" kind of guy.

FWIW, Miklasz and Howard Balzer (both from STL) vote for DT every year...

Was he specific about how/what Gretz was fucking up? Or is the Blob just his usual mess of a self?

Mr. Flopnuts
01-30-2009, 04:52 PM
DT in 1990 had twice as many sacks as the ENTIRE 2008 Chiefs D!

He damn near had as many in 1 game as the entire 08 squad. Could we put him in the hall of fame, and the 08 squad in the hall of shame?

OnTheWarpath58
01-30-2009, 04:57 PM
Was he specific about how/what Gretz was fucking up? Or is the Blob just his usual mess of a self?

Gretz isn't a salesman, and you have to sell these guys, no matter how much of a "lock" you think they are.

Here's an interesting piece on Miklasz' presentation for Roger Wehrli:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Usually journalists are covering stories, not being part of them.

But that wasn’t the case last weekend when Post-Dispatch sports columnist and KSLG (1380 AM) sports talk show co-host Bernie Miklasz was doing both.

Miklasz, representing St. Louis in the meeting of 40 media members who cover pro football, was making the pitch for Roger Wehrli to the voters who were selecting this year’s Pro Football Hall of Fame class.

“I don’t think I’ve ever had a happier day in sportswriting,” Miklasz said. “My stomach was doing flips. I was just really fired up. It was an absolute thrill to pull this off.”

Howard Balzer was one of the voters and was in the room.

“His presentation was very measured; it was done well,” said Balzer, also of KSLG. “It was a big factor, certainly. And it helped that guys came in with open minds. Who knows what swayed it, but he presented a strong case.”

Making the case

Miklasz did extensive research on Wehrli’s career, including gaining testimonials from former standout quarterbacks Roger Staubach and Sonny Jurgensen, personnel guru Ron Wolf and former Raiders coach and longtime NFL broadcaster John Madden.

Miklasz also had statistical information that was augmented by Cardinals executive Greg Gladysiewski, who has been with the club since its St. Louis days. Gladysiewski came up with a gem, the fact that in the 1970s half of Wehrli’s interceptions either stopped the foe on a drive in which it could have tied the game or taken the lead, or gave the Big Red the ball in a spot in which they could tie or take the lead.

Miklasz said he also stressed that there were only seven pure cornerbacks in the Hall, that it was an underrepresented position, and that Wehrli had very little help from standout pass rushers. He said only once did the Cardinals have a defensive lineman make a Pro Bowl, let alone the Hall of Fame, in his 14-year career.

“The only guy to be a Pro Bowler was somebody named ‘Brooks’ and I made the point I don’t even know who he is, I never heard of him,” Miklasz said. “People laughed, but I think I scored big points with that. Plus, they wouldn’t throw at him because he was so good.”

Even though Miklasz was armed with the testimonials and stats, he still had to make a winning presentation.

“It’s almost like a lawyer’s closing argument,” he said. “You can’t just write a speech and drone on, because people fall asleep. You also can’t come on too strong and brow-beat people, because that backfires. And you can’t rely only on stats. You have to make it interesting, throw some humor in.”

He said he had a wee-hours brainstorm before the voting, writing out his presentation in longhand until nearly 5 a.m. — two hours before he had to be at the meeting. It worked, as his oration helped Wehrli survive the first cut, from 17 candidates to 10 (which actually became 11 because of a voting tie). But because only a maximum of six candidates make the Hall, Miklasz had to keep campaigning.

Round 2

The second presentation runs only about 90 seconds, and Miklasz went last because the candidates are discussed alphabetically. Among those ahead of Wehrli were the two players nominated by the senior committee, and Miklasz said the voters were told, “If you don’t vote them in now, they’ll fade away.”

(Both, Gene Hickerson and Charlie Sanders, ended up being elected.)

“I saw people in the room nodding,” Miklasz said. “So I thought, ‘I’m going to appeal to the same logic because it looks like it’s going over pretty well.’ So I said, ‘Listen, this is Roger Wehrli’s last chance (to make it in conventional voting). You obviously think enough of him to make him one of the finalists, so let’s think about this logically. If you don’t vote him in today he goes to the senior committee, where he either will fade away — which you don’t want because you think enough of him to put him in the final 11 — or if he doesn’t fade away, the senior committee is going to nominate him two or three years from now and he’s going to take the place of another deserving senior.’

“I said, ‘Think about this logically. What’s the point of rejecting him now when we can take care of him now and take care of other players later?’ I saw people nodding, and some told me later that was a great closing argument and it tipped the balance for them.”

This isn’t the first time a local media member has been involved in getting a former Cardinals player into the Hall. Jack Buck lobbied hard for Dan Dierdorf, who finally made it in 1996, and Jackie Smith, who was elected in 1994. Buck was so mad after Smith had narrowly missed the previous year that he threw a clipboard across a room when Smith missed out.

Fruit Ninja
01-30-2009, 04:58 PM
He damn near had as many in 1 game as the entire 08 squad. Could we put him in the hall of fame, and the 08 squad in the hall of shame?

08 squad is already in the hall of shame. Worst defensive line in the history of the NFL. You can go back to 14 game seasons, and its still worse then that.

Fruit Ninja
01-30-2009, 04:59 PM
Not true.

I've spoken to Bernie Miklasz several times, on and off air about DT, and Gretz' presentation.

Bernie made it perfectly clear that if he were doing the presentation, DT would already be in. That's saying a lot, because Bernie typically isn't a "pound his chest" kind of guy.

FWIW, Miklasz and Howard Balzer (both from STL) vote for DT every year...

His resume should speak for itself. When you are an all time great which i think DT is, you shouldnt need a presentation to get you in over the top. There is something else that is bothering the voters imo. If you need a "speech" to help you get in, then something is wrong.

DeezNutz
01-30-2009, 05:02 PM
Gretz isn't a salesman, and you have to sell these guys, no matter how much of a "lock" you think they are.

Here's an interesting piece on Miklasz' presentation for Roger Wehrli:

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------


Good read.

With Gretz, it seems like we're taking the proverbial knife-to-a-gunfight approach, obviously.

Despite all of his faults, Carl was a savvy business guy, who also loved DT, so I'm surprised he allowed this to continue.

Micjones
01-30-2009, 05:06 PM
His resume should speak for itself. When you are an all time great which i think DT is, you shouldnt need a presentation to get you in over the top. There is something else that is bothering the voters imo. If you need a "speech" to help you get in, then something is wrong.

Exactly.

The Hall's induction process is a black eye on the face of the NFL.

KcKing
01-30-2009, 05:50 PM
Dont think for a minute that Anyone presenting anything to the NFL or the writers has anything to do with it. writers have that shit in their mind who they want long before some ****ing presentation. People want to lay the blame on Gretz and imo is the wrong thing to do.

If his impressive stats dont get him in, then i dunno what the **** will. You could have his son make the presentation and i dont think it would matter.

JMHO,

But I believe if Len Dawson did DT's presentation.... He'd get in... I have no f'ing idea why Bob Gretz gets to be KC's rep when Lenny the Cool (Media Member/Super Bowl MVP/HOF'er his damn self) is just sitting on Channel 9's set wondering what to have for lunch....

KcKing
01-30-2009, 05:51 PM
His resume should speak for itself. When you are an all time great which i think DT is, you shouldnt need a presentation to get you in over the top. There is something else that is bothering the voters imo. If you need a "speech" to help you get in, then something is wrong.

At the same time... I agree with this.

Rain Man
01-30-2009, 06:25 PM
Good read.

With Gretz, it seems like we're taking the proverbial knife-to-a-gunfight approach, obviously.

Despite all of his faults, Carl was a savvy business guy, who also loved DT, so I'm surprised he allowed this to continue.


And a dull knife at that.


Man, have you ever heard Bob Gretz speak? I heard him on a couple of preseason games a while back, and he was slightly less dynamic than the dead bodies they find in the first five minutes of Law & Order.

Ari Chi3fs
01-30-2009, 07:50 PM
Im thinking Derrick Thomas would have played until 2003-2005... and his untimely death certainly hurt his numbers, but his greatness can no longer be ignored.

Frosty
01-30-2009, 08:17 PM
Gunther and his dumbass "Falcon" scheme hurt DT a lot in peoples' minds. Now they think of him as a situational pass rusher rather than a complete LB who was a great pass rusher.

DeezNutz
01-30-2009, 08:43 PM
And a dull knife at that.


Man, have you ever heard Bob Gretz speak? I heard him on a couple of preseason games a while back, and he was slightly less dynamic than the dead bodies they find in the first five minutes of Law & Order.

This, unfortunately, is an apt description.

FAX
01-30-2009, 09:07 PM
His resume should speak for itself. When you are an all time great which i think DT is, you shouldnt need a presentation to get you in over the top. There is something else that is bothering the voters imo. If you need a "speech" to help you get in, then something is wrong.

You make an excellent point, Mr. kcxiv ... as usual.

After thinking about it, though, I'm not sure that the nominees would be "presented" if the "presentation" wasn't somehow useful in the decision-making process. Obviously, many of these voters aren't intimately familiar with every candidate's career, so it's important to get them up to speed ... quickly and favorably, if possible.

Although it's certainly true that a player's stats are and should be the primary consideration, I think that a solid, compelling case could make the difference - especially with swing voters or in years when it's a close call between two guys. Apparently, Gretz' problem is that he begins his pitch with, "We all know that DT's run defense kinda sucked and he didn't get a lot of INTs but ...". Essentially, I think he has the dynamic presentation skills of a forlorn cow. Anyway, even though it might not be the deciding factor, I don't see how he helps DT's case.

Anyhow, I honestly think that if DT had a more dynamic advocate, he'd probably already be in the hall.

FAX

DeezNutz
01-30-2009, 09:10 PM
You make an excellent point, Mr. kcxiv ... as usual.

After thinking about it, though, I'm not sure that the nominees would be "presented" if the "presentation" wasn't somehow useful in the decision-making process. Obviously, many of these voters aren't intimately familiar with every candidate's career, so it's important to get them up to speed ... quickly and favorably, if possible.

Although it's certainly true that a player's stats are and should be the primary consideration, I think that a solid, compelling case could make the difference - especially with swing voters or in years when it's a close call between two guys. Apparently, Gretz' problem is that he begins his pitch with, "We all know that DT's run defense kinda sucked and he didn't get a lot of INTs but ...". Essentially, I think he has the dynamic presentation skills of a forlorn cow. Anyway, even though it might not be the deciding factor, I don't see how he helps DT's case.

Anyhow, I honestly think that if DT had a more dynamic advocate, he'd probably already be in the hall.

FAX

The NFL HOF seems to be primarily ring driven in a lot of instances. Win the big one, put up some numbers, and you're a lock.

Put up the numbers, no ring, and few playoff victories, and you're going to need an advocate.

Ebolapox
01-30-2009, 09:21 PM
Was DT still playing when he died or had he retired?

:spock:

really? REALLY?!?

are you fucking kidding me? fuck. you can't call yourself a chiefs fan if you don't know that.

:shake:

FAX
01-30-2009, 09:24 PM
Who is this guy? Who let him in here?

Let's kill him.

No ... let's take his liquor and cigarettes first, then kill him.

FAX

unothadeal
01-30-2009, 09:26 PM
:spock:

really? REALLY?!?

are you ****ing kidding me? ****. you can't call yourself a chiefs fan if you don't know that.

:shake:

Gimmie a break I'm only 12

Ebolapox
01-30-2009, 09:26 PM
Gimmie a break I'm only 12

you're on the goddamned internet. google it, dumbass. no need to douche it up like that.

FAX
01-30-2009, 09:27 PM
12?

Hand over all your liquor and cigarettes, young man.

FAX

Fruit Ninja
01-30-2009, 09:29 PM
you're on the goddamned internet. google it, dumbass. no need to douche it up like that.

Why so fucking hostile when the guy just asked a damned question. This reply is almost as stupid as his question.

unothadeal
01-30-2009, 09:29 PM
you're on the goddamned internet. google it, dumbass. no need to douche it up like that.

Inhale, exhale, inhale, exhale.

Here.

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/-NLnUFdpROE&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/-NLnUFdpROE&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Calm yet?

Ebolapox
01-30-2009, 09:39 PM
Why so fucking hostile when the guy just asked a damned question. This reply is almost as stupid as his question.

eh, willful ignorance is one of my pet peeves. if a person asks an obvious question that ANYBODY with a 56k internet connection can find in literally 25 seconds (I timed it), they deserve at least a little bit of scorn.

it's not like we're talking about an obscure player from the AFL days. we're talking about the guy who was the face of our franchise for ten years. possibly the best chief of all-time. who died a tragic (albeit perfectly preventable) death, and it was a public item for a month or so afterward.

fuck.

AJKCFAN
01-31-2009, 09:07 AM
Definitely should have Len Dawson or Joe Po or even Mitch Holthus do the presentation. Dawson and Posnanski would easily command far more respect and Holthus would present a more persuasive and emotional fan-based presentation.

How Andre Tippett got inducted over DT on Gretz's "watch" I'll never know and is the smoking gun why someone else needs to handle DT's presentation?

BTW, is Otis Taylor eligible as a senior or veterans player?

rad
01-31-2009, 12:22 PM
Soon........

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 12:31 PM
We'll find out in an hour.

kstater
01-31-2009, 12:56 PM
I'm going to admit it, I have butterflies in my stomach.

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 12:57 PM
I'm going to admit it, I have butterflies in my stomach.

I don't.

I've reached the point where I don't really care either way.

Last year was a slap in the face, so the HOF committee can F off.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 12:58 PM
I'm going to admit it, I have butterflies in my stomach.

Me too.

I've been putting off shoveling snow until after the announcement.

I figure if he gets in, time will fly and I'll almost forget I'm shoveling snow.

If he's passed over again, it will be a good outlet to take out some frustration.

Reaper16
01-31-2009, 12:59 PM
I don't.

I've reached the point where I don't really care either way.

Last year was a slap in the face, so the HOF committee can F off.
I absolutely agree.

DaFace
01-31-2009, 01:04 PM
I've got low expectations, but if he gets in, I'll be ecstatic.

doomy3
01-31-2009, 01:05 PM
is this on TV or anything?

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:08 PM
is this on TV or anything?

NFL Network.

JASONSAUTO
01-31-2009, 01:17 PM
Gimmie a break I'm only 12

COME ON 12? and you've been a member since 06 when you were 9 or 10 i call bullshit

Ultra Peanut
01-31-2009, 01:25 PM
COME ON 12? and you've been a member since 06 when you were 9 or 10 i call bullshitWow, nobody Seymore Butts than you, Uncle Tony!

JASONSAUTO
01-31-2009, 01:25 PM
Wow, nobody Seymore Butts than you, Uncle Tony!

WTF is that supposed to mean?

Ultra Peanut
01-31-2009, 01:27 PM
WTF is that supposed to mean?What, are you twelve years old or something? That was a classic reference.

Back me up, tk.

shaneo69
01-31-2009, 01:28 PM
According to Howard Balzer on XM, Derrick's in the final 5...

shaneo69
01-31-2009, 01:30 PM
According to Howard Balzer on XM, Derrick's in the final 5...


With Randall McDaniel, Woodson, Bruce Smith, and Ralph Wilson (and the senior candidates)...

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:30 PM
According to Howard Balzer on XM, Derrick's in the final 5...

:spock:

I thought they narrowed it down to 7, and HAVE to induct 4.

(and is a good sign, because Balzer has always been an advocate for DT)

Reaper16
01-31-2009, 01:30 PM
According to Howard Balzer on XM, Derrick's in the final 5...
I'd feel better about the final four (considering there is a minimum of four elected).

Basileus777
01-31-2009, 01:31 PM
:spock:

I thought they narrowed it down to 7, and HAVE to induct 4.

(and is a good sign, because Balzer has always been an advocate for DT)

Five not counting the senior candidates.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:32 PM
Five not counting the senior candidates.

Ah, yes.

Forgot about the Seniors.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:32 PM
Schefter thinks he's got a great shot.

shaneo69
01-31-2009, 01:33 PM
Balzer can't see any of the last 5 not making it...

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:34 PM
Well its been 10 years right?

Maybe some of the voters have a 10 year rule unless you are a no-doubt First shot hall of famer.

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 01:34 PM
Any minute now.

Ultra Peanut
01-31-2009, 01:35 PM
Here we go.

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:35 PM
Good Luck everybody

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:35 PM
Good Luck everybody

Thanks, Buck.

Agent V
01-31-2009, 01:37 PM
Oh God... the suspense.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:37 PM
He made the final 10.

kstater
01-31-2009, 01:38 PM
DT top 10

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:38 PM
Nice

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:38 PM
He made the final 5.

DaKCMan AP
01-31-2009, 01:38 PM
DT top 5

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:38 PM
He made the top 5!

No Chris Carter or Shannon Sharpe

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 01:39 PM
He's ALMOST there.

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:39 PM
So exciting!!!

Agent V
01-31-2009, 01:39 PM
Holy guacamole.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
http://i41.tinypic.com/2wqzoyq.jpg

DaKCMan AP
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
DT IN THE HOF!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

rockymtnchief
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
WOOHOO....HE'S IN!!!!

ZootedGranny
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

Agent V
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
Fuck yeah!

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
http://img228.imageshack.us/img228/892/dt1pq5.jpg (http://imageshack.us)


DERRICK THOMAS IS IN THE HALL OF FAME

Ultra Peanut
01-31-2009, 01:40 PM
YEEEEEEESSSSSSSS

DaFace
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
PBJ PBJ PBJ PBJ PBJ

Thig Lyfe
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
YES!

Basileus777
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
It's Hayes, McDaniel, Smith, Thomas, Wilson and Woodson.

Chocolate Hog
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
He's in!

kstater
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
DT IN

MUSHMOUTH OUT

Crush
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
YEEESSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
CONGRATS!!!

No Kutchenberg

Reaper16
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
Fucking finally. A breeze of fucking intelligence must have swept through the room at the right time.

Demonpenz
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
yesss

JASONSAUTO
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
YYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYYEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
YES!!!!!!!

Time to get my tickets.

GOING TO CANTON. BABY!

JASONSAUTO
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
no sharpe HHHHHHHHHHHHAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA

Captain Obvious
01-31-2009, 01:41 PM
About damn time!!!

chiefs1111
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
awesome

Demonpenz
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
hahaha sharpe left out. i bet he is speachless

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
Why is Eisen Tearing up over Rod Woodson?

They must be good friends.

Crush
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
Woo Hoo

DaKCMan AP
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
CONGRATS!!!

No Kutchenberg

He doesn't deserve it when there are guys like Randall McDaniel.

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:42 PM
Why is Eisen Tearing up over Rod Woodson?

They must be good friends.

NFL Network has been pushing for him.

tk13
01-31-2009, 01:43 PM
It's about time. It's a great day.

Agent V
01-31-2009, 01:43 PM
Sharpe gets pwned.

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:43 PM
So DT Planet?

Crush
01-31-2009, 01:44 PM
hahaha sharpe left out. i bet he is speachless


It must be due to the "No Horse Policy" that they have instituted for this year.

ChiefsCountry
01-31-2009, 01:44 PM
#58 is offically retired now. :)

Also my autographed DT jersey just went up in price.

doomy3
01-31-2009, 01:45 PM
Outstanding

kstater
01-31-2009, 01:46 PM
Nice DaFace.

tk13
01-31-2009, 01:47 PM
I think we should make the banner at the top all DT pictures too.

Buck
01-31-2009, 01:48 PM
What are the odds on Bruce Smith falling asleep during his acceptance speech?

SCTrojan
01-31-2009, 01:48 PM
Woot!

KCChiefsMan
01-31-2009, 01:48 PM
finally! I'm very happy, he shouldn't have had to wait this long but at least he's in now!

DaFace
01-31-2009, 01:48 PM
I think we should make the banner at the top all DT pictures too.

If someone can come up with something, I'd be glad to do it. C-Mac's been a bit busy lately, and he's the one who knows how to do it best.

Big Chief Homer
01-31-2009, 01:54 PM
It's been along time coming, but FINALLY !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Congrats DT !!!!!!

Demonpenz
01-31-2009, 01:54 PM
i sent all the voters tecmo super bowl and told them to play as DT in excellent condition

Jerm
01-31-2009, 01:54 PM
It's about damn time!!! Finally....YESSSSSSSSSS!!!!

I'm so thrilled right now, can't even put it into words.

The fact that Horseface got left out just adds the cherry on top!

DTLB58
01-31-2009, 01:55 PM
I'm going to the induction Ceremony....

Just purchased tickets to the ceremony and Muesum!!!!

:clap::DPBJ

DaFace
01-31-2009, 01:56 PM
is it being televised?

NFL Network, streaming on NFL.com

BigMeatballDave
01-31-2009, 01:59 PM
Great news! I'm a little choked up at the moment...

OnTheWarpath58
01-31-2009, 01:59 PM
I'm going to the induction Ceremony....

Just purchased tickets to the ceremony and Muesum!!!!

:clap::DPBJ

Me too.

Section 12, Row R

Need to log back on and get museum tickets.

unothadeal
01-31-2009, 02:00 PM
Argh! I missed the announcement! Anywhere I can see it?

ChiefsCountry
01-31-2009, 02:07 PM
Looks like Buffalo will be the team to play in the Hall of Fame game.

Fruit Ninja
01-31-2009, 02:09 PM
Ralph Wilson is a funny old guy. lol

Fruit Ninja
01-31-2009, 02:12 PM
Clark on now talking about DT.

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 02:12 PM
Clark is really excited.

Johnny Vegas
01-31-2009, 02:13 PM
Marty or Neil should be talking, but Clark will do.

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 02:13 PM
Edith! Holla!

Johnny Vegas
01-31-2009, 02:14 PM
Clark is really excited.

He's being cocky.:D

DaFace
01-31-2009, 02:14 PM
Clark is so scripted. Oh well.

unothadeal
01-31-2009, 02:19 PM
Clark is so scripted. Oh well.

Ya

SCTrojan
01-31-2009, 02:21 PM
Clark is so scripted. Oh well.

Yep. Some just don't have the gift of delivering a good speech.

Bob Hayes' sister is doing a pretty good job, though.

unothadeal
01-31-2009, 02:24 PM
Yep. Some just don't have the gift of delivering a good speech.

Bob Hayes' sister is doing a pretty good job, though.

Thank ya kindly sir

Count Alex's Losses
01-31-2009, 02:25 PM
Rich Eisen is queer for Rod.

unothadeal
01-31-2009, 02:29 PM
I wanna hear that guy's second question.

Reaper16
01-31-2009, 02:30 PM
I wanna hear that guy's second question.
Heh, Covitz got pwned.

rockymtnchief
01-31-2009, 02:31 PM
I'm just glad that Covitz asked Bruce Smith about DT and got the show rolling again. It was quickly turning into the Bruce Smith Show without anyone else getting to speak about the other inductees.

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-31-2009, 03:02 PM
That's really great. He truly deserved that accolade, and it was well past his time.

Sure-Oz
01-31-2009, 03:15 PM
AWESOME DAY!

'Hamas' Jenkins
01-31-2009, 03:27 PM
I personally think it's incredibly stupid that Rod Woodson gets in on his first ballot an Cris Carter and Shannon Sharpe didn't.

I doubt he gets in if he doesn't work for NFLN.

Frazod
01-31-2009, 03:31 PM
I don't care one way or another about Carter, but fuck Shannon Sharpe. Perhaps if wasn't such a mouthy cocksucking scumbag he'd have got in.

Thomas in, Sharpe denied. Perfect. :thumb:

Reaper16
01-31-2009, 03:51 PM
You know, fuck Sharpe as a person and analyst and all, but I think he deserved to go in.

FD
01-31-2009, 03:54 PM
A beautiful day

Cheater5
01-31-2009, 03:55 PM
No doubt Sharpe will be in, eventually. But I do wonder if his personality kept him out this year.

Rain Man
01-31-2009, 04:07 PM
This is really shaping up to be the best offseason ever.

Carl - gone

Herm - gone

Derrick - in the Hall of Fame

Even the trim around the bunting is nice, with Derrick not having to go in with that stupid Bronco

The way it's going, I fully expect Holy Pioli to sign Vince Lombardi as head coach.

FAX
01-31-2009, 04:12 PM
Awesome. Just awesome.

FAX

Rain Man
01-31-2009, 04:14 PM
It's official: Bruce Smith and Rod Woodson are in the Hall of Fame, along with four others.

http://www.nfl.com/halloffame/story?id=09000d5d80e7a4fc&template=with-video-with-comments&confirm=true&icampaign=SB43_FRI_2column_2

Smith, Woodson inducted into Pro Football Hall of Fame
Associated Press

TAMPA, Fla. -- Career sacks leader Bruce Smith, versatile defensive back Rod Woodson and four others made the Pro Football Hall of Fame on Saturday, while former commissioner Paul Tagliabue was denied entry for the third straight year.