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View Full Version : Football Roethlisberger, Warner and the HOF


Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2009, 09:37 PM
Roethlisberger:

Two Super Bowls...he's already at 15k and 100 TD...he's only 26. Probably a lock for 30k and 200 TD, maybe another Super Bowl or two but two already is damn impressive.

I think he's a great, great player and that last drive was amazing. That throw was incredible.

Warner:

Three Super Bowl appearances, could have won all three if his defense hadn't collapsed (OK, he sort of sucked in his second appearance). Today he was AMAZING and will probably hit 30K and 200 TD if he comes back next year.

I'd say Roethlisberger, yes, barring a career-shortening injury. Warner might have trouble getting in on the first ballot.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 09:51 PM
Both will be in.

Thig Lyfe
02-01-2009, 09:53 PM
Yeah, Warner's throw to Fitzgerald should have been the SB and HOF clincher, but the D just couldn't keep them out of the end zone to the end. As it is, I think he'll get it, but it might take a ballot or two.

chief52
02-01-2009, 09:54 PM
If Warner gets in, why not Plunkett?

Sam Hall
02-01-2009, 09:58 PM
I think Warner's numbers and popularity will make him a first-ballot Hall of Famer.

Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2009, 10:04 PM
If Warner gets in, why not Plunkett?

Plunkett doesn't worship Jesus.

JASONSAUTO
02-01-2009, 10:06 PM
Plunkett doesn't worship Jesus.

why make every fucking thing a bash on religion?

Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2009, 10:06 PM
why make every fucking thing a bash on religion?

Why not? It brings out the tards like you, and that's entertainment!

JASONSAUTO
02-01-2009, 10:08 PM
Why not? It brings out the tards like you, and that's entertainment!

you are quite the little prick hiding behind that keyboard bro.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 10:11 PM
If Warner gets in, why not Plunkett?

Yeah! These players are identical in terms of their accomplishments and contributions to their team's success.

Warner:
2x League MVP
4 pro-bowls
career passer rating: 93.8

Plunkett
0 League MVP
0 pro-bowls
career passer rating: 67.5

Demonpenz
02-01-2009, 10:13 PM
nice job cdcox. we don't give enough love for people who know football

chief52
02-01-2009, 10:20 PM
Yeah! These players are identical in terms of their accomplishments and contributions to their team's success.

Warner:
2x League MVP
4 pro-bowls
career passer rating: 93.8

Plunkett
0 League MVP
0 pro-bowls
career passer rating: 67.5

People are basing Warner's HOF status on the Super Bowl. You seem to have left those stats out.

Plunkett...2 Super Bowl wins

Warner...1 Super Bowl win

Ya, those to careers are identical :):):)

Did you actually base part of your argument on Pro Bowl??? That is hilarious.

Plunkett is very good, but not a HOF'er. Same with Warner.

KCChiefsFan88
02-01-2009, 10:21 PM
Pittsburgh is going to have 2 starting WRs next season who are Super Bowl MVPs.

Thig Lyfe
02-01-2009, 10:24 PM
Pittsburgh is going to have 2 starting WRs next season who are Super Bowl MVPs.

That's crazy.

I think Santonio should thank Larry Fitzgerald for his award, because if he hadn't scored that touchdown, James Harrison would be the MVP.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 10:25 PM
People are basing Warner's HOF status on the Super Bowl. You seem to have left those stats out.

Plunkett...2 Super Bowl wins

Warner...1 Super Bowl win

Ya, those to careers are identical :):):)

Did you actually base part of your argument on Pro Bowl??? That is hilarious.

Plunkett is very good, but not a HOF'er. Same with Warner.

Warner was one of the top 2 players on 3 super bowl teams.

Plunkett was a game manger (role player) on 2 super bowl winning teams.

Lex Luthor
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
People are basing Warner's HOF status on the Super Bowl. You seem to have left those stats out.

Plunkett...2 Super Bowl wins

Warner...1 Super Bowl win

Ya, those to careers are identical :):):)

Did you actually base part of your argument on Pro Bowl??? That is hilarious.

Plunkett is very good, but not a HOF'er. Same with Warner.
The only thing you look at is Super Bowl wins?

You obviously think Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino.

Thig Lyfe
02-01-2009, 10:29 PM
Plunkett
career passer rating: 67.5

Yuk.

Hoover
02-01-2009, 10:32 PM
Plunkett = Big Ben IMO

Not pretty, but both are winners.

Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2009, 10:36 PM
Plunkett = Big Ben IMO

Not pretty, but both are winners.

They are not comparable in terms of talent.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 10:38 PM
Plunkett = Big Ben IMO

Not pretty, but both are winners.

Roethilsberger has an 89.5 career passer rating. That is about as pretty as you need.

Fat Elvis
02-01-2009, 10:42 PM
The only thing you look at is Super Bowl wins?

You obviously think Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino.

ROFL

cdcox
02-01-2009, 10:44 PM
They are not comparable in terms of talent.

Plunkett was plenty talented. When he came out in 1970, he was the overall #1 pick in the draft. He was at least as big a deal as when Elway came out. Plunkett was Vinney Testaverde, only he got lucky enough to get on to get on a really good team that could carry him to a couple of SB.

chief52
02-01-2009, 10:44 PM
The only thing you look at is Super Bowl wins?

You obviously think Trent Dilfer > Dan Marino.

No, but Super Bowls are what so many people are using to claim Warner was an HOF'er. Could you imagine Warner's name even being mentioned as an HOF'er if the Cards did not go on a run and make this Super Bowl.

Plunkett played on a lot worse teams than Warner did for the majority of his career. Hence his career stats are not as great as some. He was the winning QB on 2 Super Bowl winners. He was damn good, but not an HOF'er. Neither is Warner.

Thig Lyfe
02-01-2009, 10:46 PM
No, but Super Bowls are what so many people are using to claim Warner was an HOF'er. Could you imagine Warner's name even being mentioned as an HOF'er if the Cards did not go on a run and make this Super Bowl.

Plunkett played on a lot worse teams than Warner did for the majority of his career. Hence his career stats are not as great as some. He was the winning QB on 2 Super Bowl winners. He was damn good, but not an HOF'er. Neither is Warner.

Warner had some of the best seasons and Super Bowls a quarterback has ever had. He was flat-out amazing in a losing effort tonight.

The comeback angle adds another dimension. I mean, he's come back from the brink twice in his career to have a bunch of amazing seasons. He's a HOFer.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 10:51 PM
No, but Super Bowls are what so many people are using to claim Warner was an HOF'er.

You know that they hand out the league MVP before the SB, don't you? Warner has two of them. They don't give those to players who are just decent.

chief52
02-01-2009, 10:56 PM
You know that they hand out the league MVP before the SB, don't you? Warner has two of them. They don't give those to players who are just decent.

All I said is SB's are what people are hanging their hats on in this argument. Do you really think that if the Cards did not go on a playoff run this season that Warner's name would even be mentioned as an HOF'er? You and I both know it would not. Plunkett is not an HOF'er...nor is Warner at the present time. He still has time.

OnTheWarpath58
02-01-2009, 10:58 PM
Warner had some of the best seasons and Super Bowls a quarterback has ever had. He was flat-out amazing in a losing effort tonight.

The comeback angle adds another dimension. I mean, he's come back from the brink twice in his career to have a bunch of amazing seasons. He's a HOFer.

Warner holds the Top 3 passing performances in SB history - and only has 1 win.

This is the 2nd time he's brought his team back from down 13+ points in the 4th quarter of the Super Bowl, only to have his defense give up a game winning drive.

The guy is amazing, and is a lock HOFer, IMO.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 11:03 PM
All I said is SB's are what people are hanging their hats on in this argument. Do you really think that if the Cards did not go on a playoff run this season that Warner's name would even be mentioned as an HOF'er? You and I both know it would not. Plunkett is not an HOF'er...nor is Warner at the present time. He still has time.

Matter of fact I did call him a HOFer on January 7 this year, right after WC weekend.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199870

chief52
02-01-2009, 11:07 PM
Matter of fact I did call him a HOFer on January 7 this year, right after WC weekend.

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=199870

I did not go back and read it, but good for you. I personally do not agree, but that is my thing I guess. I saw Plunkett play. Saw him lead Stanford over Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. One tough winner. He was nothing for a few years because the Patriots and 49'ers where the sh@ts. I just feel that if Warner is an HOF'er then Plunkett needs consideration as well. Just my feelings.

Not arguing with you, cd. Appreciate your knowledgeable feed back.

OnTheWarpath58
02-01-2009, 11:15 PM
Whoa.

Did someone just say that Jim fucking Plunkett deserves HOF consideration?

The same Jim Plunkett that has only thrown for 25K in 15 years?

The same Jim Plunkett that has thrown 34 more INT's than TD's in his career?

The same Jim Plunkett that has a career 67.5 QB rating?

Please tell me this is a joke, and I missed it.

cdcox
02-01-2009, 11:18 PM
I did not go back and read it, but good for you. I personally do not agree, but that is my thing I guess. I saw Plunkett play. Saw him lead Stanford over Ohio State in the Rose Bowl. One tough winner. He was nothing for a few years because the Patriots and 49'ers where the sh@ts. I just feel that if Warner is an HOF'er then Plunkett needs consideration as well. Just my feelings.

Not arguing with you, cd. Appreciate your knowledgeable feed back.

Plunkett was able to be a winner with the Raiders and turn his career around. The rings are far more important than the HOF. But he wasn't the driving force on those Raider teams, which is why I don't give him the nod.

whoman69
02-01-2009, 11:22 PM
If Warner gets in, why not Plunkett?

Plunkett? The Raiders were good enough to win depite having Plunkett. Plunkett was never one of the best QBs in the league, never close to being MVP for even one season. He had a 15 year career and didn't hit 30K yards. He has nearly 30 more INTs than TDs. The first half of his career was a total bust for two different teams. With the Raiders he did not have one season where he was healthy enough to start every game. His career high in TDs was 20 in a season which he threw 18 picks. He was benched in '81, the year after winning the Super Bowl, when the team was shut out in three straight games.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-01-2009, 11:30 PM
All I know is that after watching that game, anyone who was on the fence about the importance of a franchise QB of all else should probably have their head bashed in with a stop sign, Ken Hamlin style.

Count Alex's Losses
02-01-2009, 11:33 PM
All I know is that after watching that game, anyone who was on the fence about the importance of a franchise QB of all else should probably have their head bashed in with a stop sign, Ken Hamlin style.

Guess what I'm writing about?

:cuss::cuss::cuss:

cdcox
02-01-2009, 11:34 PM
Guess what I'm writing about?

:cuss::cuss::cuss:

Mecca wrote it in the game thread, too. Thief.

chief52
02-01-2009, 11:50 PM
Whoa.

Did someone just say that Jim ****ing Plunkett deserves HOF consideration?

The same Jim Plunkett that has only thrown for 25K in 15 years?

The same Jim Plunkett that has thrown 34 more INT's than TD's in his career?

The same Jim Plunkett that has a career 67.5 QB rating?

Please tell me this is a joke, and I missed it.

You need to read the thread before you go ranting...

Shaid
02-01-2009, 11:56 PM
Warner is good but I'm not sure if he was another position that he'd get in. Because of how highly valued QB's are, it leans towards his favor that he gets in. I think he gets in after a couple of tries.

Big Ben is IMO very overrated. The first superbowl was won in spite of him. He was a simple game manager and rode a defense and running game to the win. This superbowl he played much better but I still think he's just an average QB. His biggest attribute is that he is so big that he can brush off a lot of would-be sacks and still make a play. He's on the Steelers though and they are consistently contenders(because of defense and running, not passing) so he's got a shot at another title or two and I think that is what will get him in.

doomy3
02-01-2009, 11:57 PM
All I know is that after watching that game, anyone who was on the fence about the importance of a franchise QB of all else should probably have their head bashed in with a stop sign, Ken Hamlin style.

Yeah, it's a good thing the Cardinals drafted their franchise QB in the first round a couple years ago. Where would they be without him?

Thig Lyfe
02-01-2009, 11:59 PM
Warner is good but I'm not sure if he was another position that he'd get in. Because of how highly valued QB's are, it leans towards his favor that he gets in. I think he gets in after a couple of tries.



Well, yeah. The quarterback is the leader of the offense. When you're the leader, and you're really good, you're valued more than a really good fullback.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:00 AM
Yeah, it's a good thing the Cardinals drafted their franchise QB in the first round a couple years ago. Where would they be without him?

Yes, because 2 time former MVPs who are cut loose twice and appear to have lost their fastball, sign for almost nothing, and then become a dominant QB again just fall off of fucking trees.

Let's apply the same logic to the most important position in all of professional sports, and just hope we get lucky.

Better yet, let's do what Arizona did and reach for a lineman like Levi Brown or Leonard Davis, because those guys never bust.

You do realize that Arizona could have an offense with Larry Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Adrian Peterson, right?

Thig Lyfe
02-02-2009, 12:01 AM
Yeah, it's a good thing the Cardinals drafted their franchise QB in the first round a couple years ago. Where would they be without him?

Where would the Steelers be without Roethlisberger?

Bowser
02-02-2009, 12:01 AM
Warner got hosed on his career numbers during his year with the Giants. Coughlin caved to pressure and put Eli in, but Warner had thrown something like 15 TD's to that point, and had 11 passes completed between the 4 and 1 yard line.

cdcox
02-02-2009, 12:01 AM
Warner is good but I'm not sure if he was another position that he'd get in. Because of how highly valued QB's are, it leans towards his favor that he gets in. I think he gets in after a couple of tries.

Big Ben is IMO very overrated. The first superbowl was won in spite of him. He was a simple game manager and rode a defense and running game to the win. This superbowl he played much better but I still think he's just an average QB. His biggest attribute is that he is so big that he can brush off a lot of would-be sacks and still make a play. He's on the Steelers though and they are consistently contenders(because of defense and running, not passing) so he's got a shot at another title or two and I think that is what will get him in.

Steelers were 23rd in rushing this year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:03 AM
Where would the Steelers be without Roethlisberger?

Mike Tomczak, Kordell Stewart, Tommy Maddox, and Neil O'Donnell, FTW!!

Cowher proved you can win the playoffs with all those guys. Even <del>win the Super Bowl and all those conference championship triumphs</del>.

Thig Lyfe
02-02-2009, 12:08 AM
Warner got hosed on his career numbers during his year with the Giants. Coughlin caved to pressure and put Eli in, but Warner had thrown something like 15 TD's to that point, and had 11 passes completed between the 4 and 1 yard line.

Yeah, that was bullshit. Warner would have had a killer year. If I recall correctly, the Giants were like 5-1 when they put in Manning and then they tanked to the tune of 7-9 or 8-8.

Man, I barely remember Warner as a Giant. It's like it never happened.

Thig Lyfe
02-02-2009, 12:09 AM
Yeah, that was bullshit. Warner would have had a killer year. If I recall correctly, the Giants were like 5-1 when they put in Manning and then they tanked to the tune of 7-9 or 8-8.

Man, I barely remember Warner as a Giant. It's like it never happened.

Never mind, they were 5-4. But they still finished 6-10.

doomy3
02-02-2009, 12:10 AM
Yes, because 2 time former MVPs who are cut loose twice and appear to have lost their fastball, sign for almost nothing, and then become a dominant QB again just fall off of ****ing trees.

Let's apply the same logic to the most important position in all of professional sports, and just hope we get lucky.

Better yet, let's do what Arizona did and reach for a lineman like Levi Brown or Leonard Davis, because those guys never bust.

You do realize that Arizona could have an offense with Larry Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Adrian Peterson, right?

I was joking. Calm the fuck down.

And by the way, if the Titans didn't shit all over themselves when they got the ball inside the red zone against the Steelers, there could have been 2 "journeyman" QBs playing in the Super Bowl.

And you do realize that Arizona could have an offense with Larry Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Santonio Holmes if they wouldn't have drafted their franchise QB in Leinart. Or they could have grabbed Cromartie, so maybe Santonio wouldn't have shred them like he did.

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:15 AM
Whoa.

Did someone just say that Jim fucking Plunkett deserves HOF consideration?

The same Jim Plunkett that has only thrown for 25K in 15 years?

The same Jim Plunkett that has thrown 34 more INT's than TD's in his career?

The same Jim Plunkett that has a career 67.5 QB rating?

Please tell me this is a joke, and I missed it.

Well Joe Namath is in somehow.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:16 AM
I was joking. Calm the fuck down.

And by the way, if the Titans didn't shit all over themselves when they got the ball inside the red zone against the Steelers, there could have been 2 "journeyman" QBs playing in the Super Bowl.

And you do realize that Arizona could have an offense with Larry Fitzgerald, Boldin, and Santonio Holmes if they wouldn't have drafted their franchise QB in Leinart. Or they could have grabbed Cromartie, so maybe Santonio wouldn't have shred them like he did.

They aren't the fucking Lions. Do you remember Bryant Johnson? The 1st round WR that they picked in front of Boldin? Hell, Holmes couldn't do any more for them than what Breaston did this year....1000 yards, + a dangerous punt returner.

The fact of the matter is that Arizona did the right thing. They didn't have a franchise QB, so they drafted someone who was perceived as being one. It's not Leinart's fault that the current coach installed a scheme that is antipodal to his talents. He's not Vince Young or Cade McNown. He can play.

Hell, they spent two first round picks on corners too in DRC and Rolle (who was moved to safety). Should they spend all their picks on just WRs, CBs and OL???

Antonio Cromartie would have made no difference on the two biggest plays of that drive, as they were in zone on the long catch and run, and the safety took a horrible angle, and no cornerback on earth could have covered that throw and catch without committing PI. It was perfect.

doomy3
02-02-2009, 12:19 AM
They aren't the ****ing Lions. Do you remember Bryant Johnson? The 1st round WR that they picked in front of Boldin? Hell, Holmes couldn't do any more for them than what Breaston did this year....1000 yards, + a dangerous punt returner.

The fact of the matter is that Arizona did the right thing. They didn't have a franchise QB, so they drafted someone who was perceived as being one. It's not Leinart's fault that the current coach installed a scheme that is antipodal to his talents. He's not Vince Young or Cade McNown. He can play.

Hell, they spent two first round picks on corners too in DRC and Rolle (who was moved to safety). Should they spend all their picks on just WRs, CBs and OL???

Antonio Cromartie would have made no difference on the two biggest plays of that drive, as they were in zone on the long catch and run, and the safety took a horrible angle, and no cornerback on earth could have covered that throw and catch without committing PI. It was perfect.


I was just playing your little "what if" game. If they had Santonio, he couldn't have beat them today!

And yes, the throw to Holmes was perfect, but the coverage was far from perfect. There were three guys around him, but none were tight.

Bowser
02-02-2009, 12:23 AM
I was just playing your little "what if" game. If they had Santonio, he couldn't have beat them today!

And yes, the throw to Holmes was perfect, but the coverage was far from perfect. There were three guys around him, but none were tight.

Looked like the nickle picked the safety on that play.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:23 AM
I was just playing your little "what if" game. If they had Santonio, he couldn't have beat them today!

And yes, the throw to Holmes was perfect, but the coverage was far from perfect. There were three guys around him, but none were tight.

It didn't matter. That pass was uncoverable. That's why people talk about the importance of throwing to the outside shoulder down the sideline, and the lead shoulder across the field. A perfect throw will beat any coverage, b/c the DB can't get to it without being in the receiver's body.

doomy3
02-02-2009, 12:28 AM
It didn't matter. That pass was uncoverable. That's why people talk about the importance of throwing to the outside shoulder down the sideline, and the lead shoulder across the field. A perfect throw will beat any coverage, b/c the DB can't get to it without being in the receiver's body.

I disagree. The guy fronting Holmes leaped and just missed the pass. He was probably 5-6 yards in front of Holmes, but if he would have been tighter, he would have gotten a hand on it. Probably just one yard tighter.

Granted, Mewelde Moore was in the flat, so he had to honor that. Regardless, great throw, great catch, great playcall. One of those defenders should have been tighter though. Then the throw isn't even made.

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:29 AM
Without Roethlisberger the Steelers don't even make this game, this game summed up their year he made plays in clutch moments to win the game...it happened numerous times over the season.

But hey he isn't a franchise player I read it here on CP.

doomy3
02-02-2009, 12:32 AM
Without Roethlisberger the Steelers don't even make this game, this game summed up their year he made plays in clutch moments to win the game...it happened numerous times over the season.

But hey he isn't a franchise player I read it here on CP.

Same could be said of Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley...Without any of those guys, there is a good chance they don't make the Super Bowl.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:32 AM
Without Roethlisberger the Steelers don't even make this game, this game summed up their year he made plays in clutch moments to win the game...it happened numerous times over the season.

But hey he isn't a franchise player I read it here on CP.

What more do you want a player to do than what he did on that last drive. That was every bit as good as any drive any QB has had in any Super Bowl, including Montana in XXIII, Elway in XXXIII, and Brady in XXXIV.

And I just saw a replay of that Holmes catch. The corner missed that ball by a significant margin.

Shaid
02-02-2009, 12:34 AM
Steelers were 23rd in rushing this year.

and first in Defense. The point is that the team is built to be a running/defensive team. Rothlisberger is a big QB who would only be average or a little above average on most other teams. JMO

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:34 AM
The Steelers are a defensive team that has a QB, without that QB they're the Titans, numerous of us pointed this out numerous times.

Even if you are a defensive team you need a QB that can make plays.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:35 AM
Same could be said of Santonio Holmes, James Harrison, Lamar Woodley...Without any of those guys, there is a good chance they don't make the Super Bowl.

Do you realize that his O-line sucks and he has no running game at all?

Funny thing is that when Harrison, Woodley and company had a chance to stop the Cards, they failed. When Roethlisberger had to drive the Steelers down the field with no room for error, he did.

How many games this year did he do this in?

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:35 AM
and first in Defense. The point is that the team is built to be a running/defensive team. Rothlisberger is a big QB who would only be average or a little above average on most other teams. JMO

.....

Average? Are you nuts...he's a clutch player, people think he's average because of his stats and fantasy football. If he was put on a passing team he could put up a bunch of ridiculous stats.

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:36 AM
The vaunted Steelers defense gave up 14 points in the 4th quarter that is folding...

Roethlisberger won them that game with his ability to avoid rushers behind his shitty line and make great clutch throws.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 12:37 AM
and first in Defense. The point is that the team is built to be a running/defensive team. Rothlisberger is a big QB who would only be average or a little above average on most other teams. JMO

Do you know what Bruce Arians' specialty is? Do you know what he coached before he was O-Coordinator?

I want to know how a team with that offensive line, and a pass-first coordinator, and a franchise QB, is anything resembling a run-first team.

Bill Cowher isn't coach any more.

Mecca
02-02-2009, 12:39 AM
Do you know what Bruce Arians' specialty is? Do you know what he coached before he was O-Coordinator?

I want to know how a team with that offensive line, and a pass-first coordinator, and a franchise QB, is anything resembling a run-first team.

Bill Cowher isn't coach any more.

I want someone to tell me how great the Steelers run game was this year with Parker sucking being hurt, Mendenhall being on IR and Mewelde Moore having to start games.

cdcox
02-02-2009, 12:39 AM
From the live look, I didn't think there was any way it was going to be complete in bounds. That ball was in a place where only the receiver was going to catch it.

DCs don't even plan to stop a pass like that. They try to stop the easy stuff and just concede the passes that are that deep in the end zone and that far toward the sideline.

Chris Meck
02-02-2009, 12:40 AM
I take back my previous statements about Big Ben not being a franchise QB. All the way back. I stand corrected. He was awesome today.

so was Warner.

Bowser
02-02-2009, 12:41 AM
From the live look, I didn't think there was any way it was going to be complete in bounds. That ball was in a place where only the receiver was going to catch it.

DCs don't even plan to stop a pass like that. They try to stop the easy stuff and just concede the passes that are that deep in the end zone and that far toward the sideline.

And Ben made TWO throws like that, only Holmes let the first one go right through his hands....

doomy3
02-02-2009, 12:43 AM
And Ben made TWO throws like that, only Holmes let the first one go right through his hands....

Holmes was WIDE open on the first one

cdcox
02-02-2009, 12:45 AM
And Ben made TWO throws like that, only Holmes let the first one go right through his hands....

Hell, I didn't blame Holmes for the first one. That would have been a great catch. Then he just makes a ridiculous catch on the next play.

What is hilarious is that my Steeler buddy went into a Chiefsplanet-worthy rant the day they drafted Holmes. He still wouldn't admit Holmes was a good player last week. I'm gonna have some fun with this.

Shaid
02-02-2009, 01:04 AM
.....

Average? Are you nuts...he's a clutch player, people think he's average because of his stats and fantasy football. If he was put on a passing team he could put up a bunch of ridiculous stats.

I've never been impressed with the guy in the games I've seen him play. I don't watch him all the time but when I have, he has not impressed me at all. If we are going to talk stats, it does prove my point.

Here are his 2008 stats.
TD's - 17 - 15th - Average
Yards - 3301 - 14th - Average
QB Rating - 80.1 - 24th - Way Below Average
Completion % - 59.9% - 21st - Below Average

Oh, he is in the top 5 in one category!
Interceptions - 15 - Tied for the 4th most in the NFL - Thigpen threw more TD's and less picks that Roethlisberger!

The stats say he is a below average QB but I call him average/above average because of the intangibles like leadership, escapability, etc. You might be right on the ridiculous stats comment. He probably would throw a ridiculous # of INT's if he was on a passing team. :D

Mecca
02-02-2009, 01:10 AM
If you think Tyler Thigpen is remotely comparable I'm going to laugh at you...

Roethlisberger is a clutch player...Tyler Thigpen doesn't know what clutch means. He thinks it's something he burned in his old car.

Shaid
02-02-2009, 01:20 AM
I don't think Thigpen is comparable. He's a servicable backup. I'm just making a point that Ben's numbers this year were not impressive in any way.

Mecca
02-02-2009, 01:20 AM
That's why numbers aren't the end all be all.

Dylan
02-02-2009, 03:06 AM
Hopefully, Ben will have a long career in the NFL.

Alan Schwarz from The New York Times writes a series on concussions suffered by N.F.L players and other athletes. His 2007 series was nominated for a Pulitzer Prize. The following articles were written and published recently.

Here's one by Alan Schwartz in his 2008 N.F.L brain injuries series on Ben Rothlisberger:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/02/sports/football/02steelers.html


Here's one on Steelers James Harrison
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/02/02/sports/football/02harrison.html


Here's another excellent piece written by Schwartz. It is called "Physics of the Hit." In this article Schwartz noted the serious hits taken by the players in the Steelers and Ravens Championship game. Besides other players in the N.F.L.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/01/31/sports/football/31hit.html

kstater
02-02-2009, 04:41 AM
That's crazy.

I think Santonio should thank Larry Fitzgerald for his award, because if he hadn't scored that touchdown, James Harrison would be the MVP.

Harrison lost the MVP when he used that lineman as a punching bag.

BigRichard
02-02-2009, 05:32 AM
What more do you want a player to do than what he did on that last drive. That was every bit as good as any drive any QB has had in any Super Bowl, including Montana in XXIII, Elway in XXXIII, and Brady in XXXIV.

And I just saw a replay of that Holmes catch. The corner missed that ball by a significant margin.


Did you just compare Big Ben to Montana, Elway and Brady? Give me a fucking break. He had a good year this year. Not a great year. He was part of a team that won the super bowl. If anything I would say the Cardinals defense let them win. I am not bashing Big Ben he just shouldn't be mentioned in the same line as those other guys.

the Talking Can
02-02-2009, 05:42 AM
it never ends

morning after the superbowl and Roethliesrjfswejf is still a game manager...Thigpen etc.....


we deserve to suck

Short Leash Hootie
02-02-2009, 05:49 AM
I can't believe some of you watched the same game as me...

The QB play on both sides was exceptional...Warner obviously made one crucial error but both QB's played great football in the 4th quarter and that was truly an exceptional and entertaining football game.

How could anyone bash Big Ben after some of the ridiculous plays he made yesterday?

He's a great QB. I don't like him, either...he's a douche bag. But he's a great QB...

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 05:49 AM
Did you just compare Big Ben to Montana, Elway and Brady? Give me a fucking break. He had a good year this year. Not a great year. He was part of a team that won the super bowl. If anything I would say the Cardinals defense let them win. I am not bashing Big Ben he just shouldn't be mentioned in the same line as those other guys.

Look tiny dick, did he, or did he not lead that drive down to win the game in a two minute situation just like the aforementioned quarterbacks?

Does the fact that he did so mean that I am equating him to those QBs for the entirety of his career?

Are you a fucktard in real life, or do you just play one on the intertubes?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-02-2009, 05:50 AM
I can't believe some of you watched the same game as me...

The QB play on both sides was exceptional...Warner obviously made one crucial error but both QB's played great football in the 4th quarter and that was truly an exceptional and entertaining football game.

How could anyone bash Big Ben after some of the ridiculous plays he made yesterday?

He's a great QB. I don't like him, either...he's a douche bag. But he's a great QB...

The vast majority of Chiefs fans hate quarterbacks. I almost wonder if they think they should have separate water fountains to drink out of.

mylittlepony
02-02-2009, 06:59 AM
.....

Average? Are you nuts...he's a clutch player, people think he's average because of his stats and fantasy football. If he was put on a passing team he could put up a bunch of ridiculous stats.

ROFL

Ebolapox
02-02-2009, 07:21 AM
Look tiny dick, did he, or did he not lead that drive down to win the game in a two minute situation just like the aforementioned quarterbacks?

Does the fact that he did so mean that I am equating him to those QBs for the entirety of his career?

Are you a fucktard in real life, or do you just play one on the intertubes?.