Transportation Secretary: Considering taxing you by the miles you drive

[Bootlegged]

newsday.com/news/nationworld/wire/sns-ap-lahood-vehicle-mileage-tax,0,586876.story


Newsday.com
AP Interview: Transportation secretary says taxing how much we drive may replace gasoline tax

By JOAN LOWY

Associated Press Writer

7:17 AM EST, February 20, 2009

WASHINGTON (AP) — Transportation Secretary Ray LaHood says he wants to consider taxing motorists based on how many miles they drive rather than how much gasoline they burn — an idea that has angered drivers in some states where it has been proposed.

Gasoline taxes that for nearly half a century have paid for the federal share of highway and bridge construction can no longer be counted on to raise enough money to keep the nation's transportation system moving, LaHood said in an interview with The Associated Press.

"We should look at the vehicular miles program where people are actually clocked on the number of miles that they traveled," the former Illinois Republican lawmaker said.

Most transportation experts see a vehicle miles traveled tax as a long-term solution, but Congress is being urged to move in that direction now by funding pilot projects.

The idea also is gaining ground in several states. Governors in Idaho and Rhode Island are talking about such programs, and a North Carolina panel suggested in December the state start charging motorists a quarter-cent for every mile as a substitute for the gas tax.

A tentative plan in Massachusetts to use GPS chips in vehicles to charge motorists by the mile has drawn complaints from drivers who say it's an Orwellian intrusion by government into the lives of citizens. Other motorists say it eliminates an incentive to drive more fuel-efficient cars since gas guzzlers will be taxed at the same rate as fuel sippers.

Besides a VMT tax, more tolls for highways and bridges and more government partnerships with business to finance transportation projects are other funding options, LaHood, one of two Republicans in President Barack Obama's Cabinet, said in the interview Thursday.

"What I see this administration doing is this — thinking outside the box on how we fund our infrastructure in America," he said.

LaHood said he firmly opposes raising the federal gasoline tax in the current recession.

The program that funds the federal share of highway projects is part of a surface transportation law that expires Sept. 30. Last fall, Congress made an emergency infusion of $8 billion to make up for a shortfall between gas tax revenues and the amount of money promised to states for their projects. The gap between money raised by the gas tax and the cost of maintaining the nation's highway system and expanding it to accommodate population growth is forecast to continue to widen.

Among the reasons for the gap is a switch to more fuel-efficient cars and a decrease in driving that many transportation experts believe is related to the economic downturn. Electric cars and alternative-fuel vehicles that don't use gasoline are expected to start penetrating the market in greater numbers.

"One of the things I think everyone agrees with around reauthorization of the highway bill is that the highway trust fund is an antiquated system for funding our highways," LaHood said. "It did work to build the interstate system and it was very effective, there's no question about that. But the big question now is, We're into the 21st century and how are we going to take care of our infrastructure needs ... with a highway trust fund that had to be plused up by $8 billion by Congress last year?"

A blue-ribbon national transportation commission is expected to release a report next week recommending a VMT.

The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped with global satellite positioning technology, a transponder, a clock and other equipment to record how many miles a vehicle was driven, whether it was driven on highways or secondary roads, and even whether it was driven during peak traffic periods or off-peak hours.

The device would tally how much tax motorists owed depending upon their road use. Motorists would pay the amount owed when it was downloaded, probably at gas stations at first, but an alternative eventually would be needed.

Rob Atkinson, president of the National Surface Transportation Infrastructure Financing Commission, the agency that is developing future transportation funding options, said moving to a national VMT would take about a decade.

Privacy concerns are based more on perception than any actual risk, Atkinson said. The satellite information would be beamed one way to the car and driving information would be contained within the device on the car, with the amount of the tax due the only information that's downloaded, he said.

The devices also could be programmed to charge higher rates to vehicles that are heavier, like trucks that put more stress on roadways, Atkinson said.

[dirk digler]

Yeah I don't think so

[rockymtnchief]

The system would require all cars and trucks be equipped with global satellite positioning technology, a transponder, a clock and other equipment to record how many miles a vehicle was driven.....
Piss on that and piss on your tax. Learn to balance the budget and keep your nose out of my shit.

[Rooster]

Change you can believe in. :rolleyes:

[Demonpenz]

this is a good idea, i see people driving RV's and shit all over the country, something needs to be done to keep people from needless driving all over the place

[PhillyChiefFan]

So...now we are taxed when you:
1. Buy the car
2. Fill up the car
3. Fix the car
4. Maintain the car
5. Drive the car
6. Sell the car

If this passes, I'm buying Trek and Huffy stock.

[Bugeater]

Hmmm...it sounds expensive and stupid, which only assures that the gov't will do it.

[dirk digler]

Ok if went by the NC panel it wouldn't be too expensive though I don't like the idea of having the gov. put extra shit in my car to make it work.

I suck at math so maybe someone can help using the NC model. Basically you are paying 1 cent every 4 miles? So for driving a 100 miles it would be a quarter?

[Garcia Bronco]

So...now we are taxed when you:
1. Buy the car
2. Fill up the car
3. Fix the car
4. Maintain the car
5. Drive the car
6. Sell the car

If this passes, I'm buying Trek and Huffy stock.

I consider car insurance a tax as well. You have to have it in most states plus medical liability

[ChiTown]

God bless Obama, and God Bless the United Socialist States of America.

[dirk digler]

I live in MO and I don't believe we have any toll roads in this state and that is probably why our roads and bridges suck so bad but I digress.

This would actually be cheaper than paying for toll roads.

[DJ's left nut]

Somebody's gotta keep this shell game going while we pump more money into entitlements.

[Bugeater]

Ok if went by the NC panel it wouldn't be too expensive though I don't like the idea of having the gov. put extra shit in my car to make it work.

I suck at math so maybe someone can help using the NC model. Basically you are paying 1 cent every 4 miles? So for driving a 100 miles it would be a quarter?
That is correct, but there's no way they allow it to be that low. I'll use 5 gals of gas to drive 100 miles in my current vehicle, and I'm sure I'm paying way more than a $0.25 in federal taxes on that.

[DeezNutz]

Great idea!

I can only hope that I can get a direct withdrawal set up from my checking account. I absolutely love having the government involved in my daily life as much as possible.

Do you think the GPS systems will talk? That would be neat!

[PhillyChiefFan]

I consider car insurance a tax as well. You have to have it in most states plus medical liability

True, forgot that. Add that to the list too!

I realize that 1/4 a cent per mile isn't that much that it will kill me, but I drive 45 miles to/from work every day. It'd add up quick.

[Bootlegged]

So gas/driving is DC worthy? Does everyone drive or just people in DC? More mod abuse.

[PhillyChiefFan]

Great idea!

I can only hope that I can get a direct withdrawal set up from my checking account. I absolutely love having the government involved in my daily life as much as possible.

Do you think the GPS systems will talk? That would be neat!

" Mile 50. You now owe the government $1.25."

Isn't there a tax on SUV's and Luxury cars? Seriously what's next a tax to turn on your air conditioner?

[ChiTown]

Great idea!

I can only hope that I can get a direct withdrawal set up from my checking account. I absolutely love having the government involved in my daily life as much as possible.

Do you think the GPS systems will talk? That would be neat!

You are nothing without Your Government. You can not possibly exist without It..........well, you could, but all the worthless, tit-sucking, generations of welfarians who have decided that the Gubment should take care them would strongly disagree.

Our Country is going to hell in a hand basket. :shake:

[dirk digler]

That is correct, but there's no way they allow it to be that low. I'll use 5 gals of gas to drive 100 miles in my current vehicle, and I'm sure I'm paying way more than a $0.25 in federal taxes on that.

I know we are talking about the government here but they really don't need to raise it above the NC limit because they are going to make a killing either way.

Right now there is 62 million cars registered in the US that probably doesn't take in account semi-trucks.

They will make $155,000 per mile if my math is correct.

[DeezNutz]

" Mile 50. You now owe the government $1.25."

Isn't there a tax on SUV's and Luxury cars? Seriously what's next a tax to turn on your air conditioner?

Yes. No kidding.

It will be part of the new "green" tax. We all need to sacrifice and give back, right?

[dirk digler]

According to treehugger.com...Great site name btw.

Just through May last year Americans drove 1,188.5 billion miles

[dirk digler]

So doing the math that is:

1.842175 × 10¹⁷


Is that like almost 2 trillion dollars and that would only be for 5 months?

[HonestChieffan]

I live in MO and I don't believe we have any toll roads in this state and that is probably why our roads and bridges suck so bad but I digress.

This would actually be cheaper than paying for toll roads.

Missouri Constitution does not allow Toll Roads. Probably one of the more stupid things in the Constitution.

Toll Roads are the most pure way to manage who pays and how much for use of the road. If we had toll roads, and we honestly set rates based on wear and tear to the roads, we would be better off. But the trucking lobby and the average driver will scream bloody murder.

Id love to see more toll roads.

As cars become more efficient and we evolve the old gas eaters out, tax revenue from gas sales will drop. That will occur at the samre time road fixup and building expence is going up and at the same time inflation hits making matters worse. Like it or not, some way of charging based on use is coming in the future.

[DeezNutz]

According to treehugger.com...Great site name btw.

Just through May last year Americans drove 1,188.5 billion miles


Better idea.

Keep the tax on gasoline AND let's start a mileage tax. The government needs our help. It's just a 1/4 cent per mile. No problem. I promise that there will be no implications on food costs and other lesser important things.

[dirk digler]

Missouri Constitution does not allow Toll Roads. Probably one of the more stupid things in the Constitution.

Toll Roads are the most pure way to manage who pays and how much for use of the road. If we had toll roads, and we honestly set rates based on wear and tear to the roads, we would be better off. But the trucking lobby and the average driver will scream bloody murder.

Id love to see more toll roads.

As cars become more efficient and we evolve the old gas eaters out, tax revenue from gas sales will drop. That will occur at the samre time road fixup and building expence is going up and at the same time inflation hits making matters worse. Like it or not, some way of charging based on use is coming in the future.

Seriously? I had no idea it was in the Constitution and wondered why we don't have toll roads. The state would make a killing having I-70 and I-44 a toll road. Plus our roads and bridges would be in alot better shape.

I am in total agreement with you btw. Shocking I know. :D

[Chief Chief]

(begin Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2" now)

HEY!

HEY!

HEY!

YES, WE CAN tax the hell out of YOU!...YOU!...YOU! YOU! YOU! YOU!

(repeat until bankrupt)

[FishingRod]

this is a good idea, i see people driving RV's and shit all over the country, something needs to be done to keep people from needless driving all over the place

You are being sarcastic, Right?

[DeezNutz]

Seriously? I had no idea it was in the Constitution and wondered why we don't have toll roads. The state would make a killing having I-70 and I-44 a toll road. Plus our roads and bridges would be in alot better shape.

I am in total agreement with you btw. Shocking I know. :D

All of I-70 as a toll road? With all of the tractor trailer traffic on this stretch of highway?

We'd all take a bath on that proposal.

[Iowanian]

this is a good idea, i see people driving RV's and shit all over the country, something needs to be done to keep people from needless driving all over the place


As someone who drives all over the place, trying to get work and do jobs to feed my family....punch yourself in the dick.



yeah.....this will "stimulate" the shit out of the economy for salesmen, consultants, transportation companies, farmers and on and on and on.


Dumbasses. I'm thinking about going out to burn some shit just to pollute the environment. maybe throw a couple of tires on top.

[dirk digler]

Better idea.

Keep the tax on gasoline AND let's start a mileage tax. The government needs our help. It's just a 1/4 cent per mile. No problem. I promise that there will be no implications on food costs and other lesser important things.

Yeah I understand that but I have to get the administration credit for thinking outside the box on this since they are not willing to raise the gas tax.

If they could exempt trucks meaning semi's from this tax that might negate companies from raising their prices on items. That is a thought.

[banyon]

What a stupid f***ing idea.

Why would we de-incentivize fuel efficiency at the expense of some "miles driven" standard? If the goal is to improve fuel efficiency and reduce dependence on foreign oil, then this idea does exactly the opposite. Tax people the same no matter how efficient their vehicle is. Hope this gets shot down really fast.

[Iowanian]

At least this won't encourage odometers to be unhooked....


hell....screw the commuters! Screw those people who live out west where its 80 miles to school and the neighbor's house...

[HonestChieffan]

Your logic is consistantly bad.

[dirk digler]

All of I-70 as a toll road? With all of the tractor trailer traffic on this stretch of highway?

We'd all take a bath on that proposal.

Yep. I-70 is a shitty ass highway and needs alot of work. The State would make alot of money and could fund alot of things just off that.

[DeezNutz]

Yeah I understand that but I have to get the administration credit for thinking outside the box on this since they are not willing to raise the gas tax.

If they could exempt trucks meaning semi's from this tax that might negate companies from raising their prices on items. That is a thought.

I'm all for creative solutions to difficult problems.

But GPS systems in private automobiles? Fuck. No. On so many different levels.

I'm anxiously awaiting the breathing monitor that will soon by installed in my home as part of the "green" movement.

[HonestChieffan]

Everybody wants good roads.

Free.

[DeezNutz]

Yep. I-70 is a shitty ass highway and needs alot of work. The State would make alot of money and could fund alot of things just off that.

Of course. It would make a killing.

And the heavy truck traffic would mean that their costs are going to be passed on to you when you go the store. Missouri residents would be paying that tax everyday, whether they were driving or not.

[Iowanian]

The language in this bill is confusing to the average working American, mostly because the most of the legistlation proposed in the past 2 months has been written in dumbf@ckanese.


vehichle registration, gas taxes, fed income, state income and a plethora of other taxes are ALREADY paid to fix our effing roads.


How about stop giving tax "refunds" to people who don't work and sponge off the system and use THAT money to fix roads...

[dirk digler]

I'm all for creative solutions to difficult problems.

But GPS systems in private automobiles? Fuck. No. On so many different levels.

I'm anxiously awaiting the breathing monitor that will soon by installed in my home as part of the "green" movement.

I agree that is the downside to all of this and probably why I would oppose it.

I might change my mind if they gave me a cool GPS system that talks to me and plays music. :D

[DeezNutz]

Everybody wants good roads.

Free.

Not true.

People want sensible approaches to funding the essentials. Some of the suggestions in the article are beyond stupid.

[banyon]

The language in this bill is confusing to the average working American, mostly because the most of the legistlation proposed in the past 2 months has been written in dumbf@ckanese.


vehichle registration, gas taxes, fed income, state income and a plethora of other taxes are ALREADY paid to fix our effing roads.


How about stop giving tax "refunds" to people who don't work and sponge off the system and use THAT money to fix roads...

Who is getting those?

[dirk digler]

What a stupid f***ing idea.

Why would we de-incentivize fuel efficiency at the expense of some "miles driven" standard? If the goal is to improve fuel efficiency and reduce dependence on foreign oil, then this idea does exactly the opposite. Tax people the same no matter how efficient their vehicle is. Hope this gets shot down really fast.

That is a downside as well and people are afraid they would stop using fuel efficient cars. Makes sense.

[Demonpenz]

You are being sarcastic, Right?

yes I am. we need a revolution badly

[dirk digler]

Everybody wants good roads.

Free.

But you are in support of toll roads which isn't free.

[dirk digler]

I think this is the fundamental question and how do we go about fixing it?

"One of the things I think everyone agrees with around reauthorization of the highway bill is that the highway trust fund is an antiquated system for funding our highways," LaHood said. "It did work to build the interstate system and it was very effective, there's no question about that. But the big question now is, We're into the 21st century and how are we going to take care of our infrastructure needs ... with a highway trust fund that had to be plused up by $8 billion by Congress last year?"

[Bootlegged]

The answers to what "Change" means are becoming clear.

[Iowanian]

Who is getting those?

You're shitting me, right?

[HonestChieffan]

Im in support of toll roads. No doubt. Id love free highways, I just dont think we can do that.

GPS and technobabble aside, the technology is already in use, even in places like Kansas...can you believe that?...you pay into an account, you place the transmitter in your car and every month your balance drops based on the miles you drove. You dont have to stop, it doesnt slow you down and it works like a charm.

So, ignoring the idiocy of the proposals of gps and and all such garbage, a logical transition to a better way to tax us on road useage is a viable discussion.

It would not eliminate all other forms of auto use tax but it can and needs to replace some. As fuel tax revenue falls and Highway upkeep costs rise the difference has to be replaced.

[banyon]

You're shitting me, right?

Unless you are referring to the one time expanded social security credit (which is a pretty minor part of the bill), then no, there aren't any "tax refunds" for people who don't work.

[HonestChieffan]

It was a payment of taxes made by those who work and pay tax to those who dont pay tax.

[Iowanian]

One time?

Do you know how many non-producer Americans get checks at tax time, for thousands of dollars, more than they earn in a year?

You're engaging in too much plasticbagonyourhead masterbation if you don't think its true.

[petegz28]

Who is getting those?

I know a person who worked all of 5 months last year. 1 of the jobs was at McDonald's. Not sure where the other one was? Needless to say, because she has a child, she is getting a $3k tax refund.

[Chief Henry]

How about a methane gas tax on the number of farm animals farmers have !

[banyon]

It was a payment of taxes made by those who work and pay tax to those who work and pay FICA and medicare taxes comprising a larger portion of their income and dont pay income tax.

FYP.

[Iowanian]

They're trying that too. I think the last number I saw was $87.50/cow.

[banyon]

I know a person who worked all of 5 months last year. 1 of the jobs was at McDonald's. Not sure where the other one was? Needless to say, because she has a child, she is getting a $3k tax refund.

So, she worked?

[dirk digler]

Im in support of toll roads. No doubt. Id love free highways, I just dont think we can do that.

GPS and technobabble aside, the technology is already in use, even in places like Kansas...can you believe that?...you pay into an account, you place the transmitter in your car and every month your balance drops based on the miles you drove. You dont have to stop, it doesnt slow you down and it works like a charm.

So, ignoring the idiocy of the proposals of gps and and all such garbage, a logical transition to a better way to tax us on road useage is a viable discussion.

It would not eliminate all other forms of auto use tax but it can and needs to replace some. As fuel tax revenue falls and Highway upkeep costs rise the difference has to be replaced.

I am in total agreement with you. Alot of states use FastPass or whatever it is called in those states and people seem to like it.

There is no reason why that can't be implemented every where.

[Brock]

Looks like another way for the government to keep their eye on you. Mmm, thanks, nah.

[Iowanian]

So, she worked?

Sure as hell not enough to have even paid in $3k total in that timeframe.


Very common story.


Do some research, ask around. It should take you a grand total of 5minutes to know you're wrong.

[dirk digler]

I know a person who worked all of 5 months last year. 1 of the jobs was at McDonald's. Not sure where the other one was? Needless to say, because she has a child, she is getting a $3k tax refund.

It is the child credit act and it has been that way for a very long time.

Trust me I know my ex gets to claim our child and she gets $5000 dollars a year back.

[petegz28]

So, she worked?

If you want to call it that. She worked reluctantly and barely at all and received a larger tax refund than people who paid 10 times more in taxes than her and worked much harder.


So she worked the system is all she did.

By the same token, I met a gal several years ago that didn't work lived off the Fed Gov on a nice duplex and sent her kids to private schools. All on the Gov's dime.

So take your pick? Neither did shit to justify what they received.

[HonestChieffan]

Sure as hell not enough to have even paid in $3k total in that timeframe.


Very common story.


Do some research, ask around. It should take you a grand total of 5minutes to know you're wrong.

He knows he is wrong, its his little game that he plays trying to not admit money you and I and he made was sent to those who didnt pay income tax and on and on and on.

[FishingRod]

yes I am. we need a revolution badly

Thank you! I try very hard to keep a civil tone and have a fair give and take with those that differ from my opinion on things. I can usually even understand why another's opinion on things may completely in contrast with my own. I try not to lower myself to petty insults and name calling when frustrated.

I thought, just for a minute, I was going to have a failure of epic proportions.

[dirk digler]

It is actually called the Child Earned Income Tax Credit and in order to get it you have to meet these requirements:

Tax Year 2008

Earned income (http://www.irs.gov/individuals/article/0,,id=176508,00.html) and adjusted gross income (AGI) must each be less than:


$38,646 ($41,646 married filing jointly) with two or more qualifying children;
$33,995 ($36,995 married filing jointly) with one qualifying child;
$12,880 ($15,880 married filing jointly) with no qualifying children.

[jAZ]

The cost of roads doesn't go down because we move from gas to electric cars, but the amount of money collected and spet on those highways will, unless they change the formula.

[Brock]

The cost of roads doesn't go down because we move from gas to electric cars, but the amount of money collected and spet on those highways will, unless they change the formula.

As long as the formula doesn't infringe on my privacy, great.

[Iowanian]

The cost of roads doesn't go down because we move from gas to electric cars, but the amount of money collected and spet on those highways will, unless they change the formula.

Then completely eliminate the fuel tax, make gas cheaper and THEN tax me for the miles I drive, or raise vehicle registration fees.

[FishingRod]

The cost of roads doesn't go down because we move from gas to electric cars, but the amount of money collected and spet on those highways will, unless they change the formula.
I tend to agree,

I love the idea of an electric car that doesn't pollute. I do wonder what the effect of all the batteries sent to the landfill would be and, wonder how the amount of pollution coming from coal plants to power these cars would compare be since that is what creates most of the electricity now. If we could somehow reliably charge them via solar power that would be a vast improvement.

[cookster50]

Of course. It would make a killing.

And the heavy truck traffic would mean that their costs are going to be passed on to you when you go the store. Missouri residents would be paying that tax everyday, whether they were driving or not.

Or they'd go a different route.

[Mr. Kotter]

Until mass transportation is much more available and established, this would be assinine.

[banyon]

Until mass transportation is much more available and established, this would be assinine.

yep

[banyon]

He knows he is wrong, its his little game that he plays trying to not admit money you and I and he made was sent to those who didnt pay income tax and on and on and on.

Well, now you're calling it income tax and not saying that people didn't work.
You finally got the hang of it.

Looks like my "little game" to get you to accurately describe the tax provisions worked.

[DeezNutz]

Or they'd go a different route.

Good luck with that, considering the road system in Missouri. There just aren't a lot of viable alternatives.

[HonestChieffan]

Yea Im looking forward to the day when we have mass transportation that will get me from Appleton City to Joplin and let me get off, pick up some feed, a few fence posts and bale wrap and get me back home.

In the meantime we will enjoy a high speed train from LA to LV.


Look at transportation in Europe today and you see it here in the future with some modifications. The US will never invest what is needed to rebuild rail. Its a national shame we allowed it to go down. The Trucking lobby will never sit still for improved rail that takes away their business regardless of how fuel efficient it is and how much the roads will be improved with fewer semis tearing them up and the pollution issues they produce.

What we will see is toll roads. Lots of them. Its inevitable and its fair...you drive on it, you pay. And yes we will still pay fuel taxes becuse there will be roads that are not toll roads that require maintainence.

No one likes taxes but somehow we have to pay for these things. If we have this much disagreement on something as clear as roads/fuel/taxes and toll roads what will the debate be when we hit the wall and see we have to pay for this stimulus...wait for that tax hit...

[Mr. Kotter]

The cost of roads doesn't go down because we move from gas to electric cars, but the amount of money collected and spet on those highways will, unless they change the formula.

Any friggin' "formula" the bureauracrats come up with has to account for urban/suburban/rural settings, and commuting differences associated wtih geographic and occupational issues...or else it would be ridiculously unfair--and the rural/small state contingent of the Senate will beat it down.

Such complexities will likely sink this B.S.

[Chief Henry]

I know a person who worked all of 5 months last year. 1 of the jobs was at McDonald's. Not sure where the other one was? Needless to say, because she has a child, she is getting a $3k tax refund.

It happens like that all over the place, and they get they're college paid for that way. I Don't exactly know how that works, but young girls are getting they're college taken care of all over the place...it has someting to do with the kid they have from some sperm donor.

[Chief Henry]

They're trying that too. I think the last number I saw was $87.50/cow.

I knew something was in the pipeline about that...unbelievable :shake:

[Taco John]

What a stupid f***ing idea.

Why would we de-incentivize fuel efficiency at the expense of some "miles driven" standard? If the goal is to improve fuel efficiency and reduce dependence on foreign oil, then this idea does exactly the opposite. Tax people the same no matter how efficient their vehicle is. Hope this gets shot down really fast.



I think it's hilarious that the socialists on this board are against this idea - not for the principle that the government shouldn't be so involved in our lives that they're taxing our miles - no - but for the fact that it runs counter to their ideas on the type of fuel efficiency that we should all be striving for...

[HonestChieffan]

Realists...that would be a fun group to define...understand that revenue has to be generated to pay for stuff the government buys at every level from township to fed. Like it or not, what we enjoy in terms of "stuff" paid for by government, WE are the ones who pay for it and the only way for governmental bodies to create revenue is taxes and fees.

Next time you gat a warm feeling over anything the government does for you....remember, they just spent your money. And you dont get to spend it. Ever. Stuff you want to buy has to wait till you pay for stuff you had no input on that was spent on your behalf.

[dirk digler]

Yea Im looking forward to the day when we have mass transportation that will get me from Appleton City to Joplin and let me get off, pick up some feed, a few fence posts and bale wrap and get me back home.

In the meantime we will enjoy a high speed train from LA to LV.


Look at transportation in Europe today and you see it here in the future with some modifications. The US will never invest what is needed to rebuild rail. Its a national shame we allowed it to go down. The Trucking lobby will never sit still for improved rail that takes away their business regardless of how fuel efficient it is and how much the roads will be improved with fewer semis tearing them up and the pollution issues they produce.

What we will see is toll roads. Lots of them. Its inevitable and its fair...you drive on it, you pay. And yes we will still pay fuel taxes becuse there will be roads that are not toll roads that require maintainence.

No one likes taxes but somehow we have to pay for these things. If we have this much disagreement on something as clear as roads/fuel/taxes and toll roads what will the debate be when we hit the wall and see we have to pay for this stimulus...wait for that tax hit...

Has someone hijacked hcf's account? Anyone?

I can't believe how much in agreement we are on this.

The one thing Obama wants to do is get high-speed rail up and going in this country especially between large cities. I hope he can make it happen.

[HonestChieffan]

Dirk, we have never been totally at odds, you just have some loony ideas.

[dirk digler]

Dirk, we have never been totally at odds, you just have some loony ideas.

LMAO

Probably so. I like to think outside the box and not get dragged into ideologically thinking and the same tired worn out arguments.

[Mr. Kotter]

LMAO

Probably so. I like to think outside the box and not get dragged into ideologically thinking and the same tired worn out arguments.

Thinking outside the box is great. Some of us just think that it's important to make sure you critically analyze those ideas before you embrace them so strongly. Otherwise, it's kinda like....fair-weather fans or bandwagon fans in sports; going along with what's popular, or following someone who is charismatic. Been there done that, personally. But I've learned from it, and now am much more cautious about accepting people's words. I'm more interested in their actions. Time will tell with Obama.

[dirk digler]

Thinking outside the box is great. Some of us just think that it's important to make sure you critically analyze those ideas before you embrace them so strongly. Otherwise, it's kinda like....fair-weather fans or bandwagon fans in sports; going along with what's popular, or following someone who is charismatic. Been there done that, personally. But I've learned from it, and now am much more cautious about accepting people's words. I'm more interested in their actions. Time will tell with Obama.

Yeah I hear ya. I kind of feel like this place is good for brainstorming. Just throw stuff up and let people whack at it and in the end some ideas are good others suck balls.

[Hydrae]

We have not raised the tax price for a gallon of gas in what, 20 years? Meanwhile the price of that gallon has basically doubled and the cost of maintaining our roads has gone up via inflation just like everything else. I wonder why we have a funding shortage. :hmmm:


Damned idiots, get out of my day to day life!!! :cuss:

[Calcountry]

Change you can believe in. :rolleyes:That's the change we need.

[Calcountry]

God bless Obama, and God Bless the United Socialist States of America.Change=USSA

[Calcountry]

Somebody's gotta keep this shell game going while we pump more money into entitlements.We have to create more entitlement.

We need amnesty for illegal Aliens so they can vote themselves more entitlements in the next election.

[Hydrae]

yes I am. we need a revolution badly

This.

I have been patiently waiting for a non-violent revolution for 30 years. I am about done waiting and pretty much given up that it will be non-violent.

[RINGLEADER]

Another fantastic idea from Obama and/or Dems! They're amazing!

[The Rick]

(begin Gary Glitter's "Rock and Roll Part 2" now)

HEY!

HEY!

HEY!

YES, WE CAN tax the hell out of YOU!...YOU!...YOU! YOU! YOU! YOU!

(repeat until bankrupt)
Thanks for making me spit Diet Coke out my nose! ROFL

[Guru]

How is charging by the mile really any different than charging by the gallon. If you drive a lot you use a lot of gasoline.

We don't need another special tax that has to be figured in to our already complicated tax structure.

[HonestChieffan]

Charge by mile/weight allows more fair distribution of the tax, also can change by vehical type and is a constant income producer vs variable on reducing consumption of gas.

[badmajama]

God bless Obama, and God Bless the United Socialist States of America.

a republican is making this proposal. Obama has been president for 30 days he's all the sudden the center of blame. Bush would have gone on vacation during this mess.

[Garcia Bronco]

Either way it's a regressive tax. If we make transportation cost prohibitive then people will use other methods of transportation. What's next? A bicycle tax? Uni-cycle tax? skateboard tax? These bastards will find everyway they can to shake every loose nickle and dime out of your pocket.

[HonestChieffan]

like what will they use...say going from Denver to Ft Collins and back to Loveland then home to Aurora all in one day....think up what my alternatives are....

[Valiant]

Let them do it.. There are ways already to swap the gps to something else.. The rest would not take much work either knowing our government is the one doing it..

A smart person would never be taxed much on this..

[Guru]

Charge by mile/weight allows more fair distribution of the tax, also can change by vehical type and is a constant income producer vs variable on reducing consumption of gas.either way you are using more or less gas. We don't need our tax prep to be more complicated than it already is. Bet they would also charge us to install the GPS that it requires rather than provide it free.

Unless they can find a way to not make us have to account for this ourselves on taxes they can take this idea and shove it. We need simpler taxes not more complicated.

I don't really mind the idea as I only drive 7500 miles per year on my vehicles. They need to find a better way to implement it though. I am sick of things being made more complicated than they need to be.

[banyon]

I think it's hilarious that the socialists on this board are against this idea - not for the principle that the government shouldn't be so involved in our lives that they're taxing our miles - no - but for the fact that it runs counter to their ideas on the type of fuel efficiency that we should all be striving for...

I'm pretty consistent in my longing for American fuel efficiency and independence from foreign oil, no matter whether the terrible ideas like this one come from government or corporations. The source doesn't make the idea bad. The fact that it's a bad idea makes it bad.

[BucEyedPea]

Hey! What did I tell ya'all before. The Greenies are just commie watermelons. They want to destroy freedom and free market capitalism.That really is their intention. They HATE it.
This is an example of their totalitarianianism...and there's more coming.

[dirk digler]

I forgot to post this earlier but Gibbs stated this afternoon that basically the Transportation Sec was speaking out of his ass. It is not going to happen.

[Mr. Kotter]

I forgot to post this earlier but Gibbs stated this afternoon that basically the Transportation Sec was speaking out of his ass. It is not going to happen.


Gosh, such incompetency and failed "communication" is reminiscent of the Bush years.... :hmmm:


;)

[Direckshun]

Gosh, such incompetency and failed "communication" is reminiscent of the Bush years.... :hmmm:

;)
Actually, the incompetence from the Bush years would be the IMPLEMENT the policy, watch it self-destruct, then argue that it was not only right to implement it, but that it never self-destructed.

[Mr. Kotter]

Actually, the incompetence from the Bush years would be the IMPLEMENT the policy, watch it self-destruct, then argue that it was not only right to implement it, but that it never self-destructed.

Of course, Comrad Direckshun.

Heil, Obam-ler! :wayne:

[Direckshun]

Of course, Comrad Direckshun.

Heil, Obam-ler! :wayne:

Thaaaaaaaaaaaat'll catch on.