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View Full Version : General Politics Benjamin Franklin was REALLY smart...


Stewie
02-22-2009, 02:38 PM
I posted part of Benjamin Franklin's speech to the Continental Congress earlier. This is the entire speech. Not wordy, no cameras, but absolutely clear and to the point. Obama needs to realize BF was calling him out 200+ years ago. That is, thinking you have all the answers pretty much proves you don't.



Mr. President


I confess that there are several parts of this constitution which I do not at present approve, but I am not sure I shall never approve them: For having lived long, I have experienced many instances of being obliged by better information, or fuller consideration, to change opinions even on important subjects, which I once thought right, but found to be otherwise. It is therefore that the older I grow, the more apt I am to doubt my own judgment, and to pay more respect to the judgment of others. Most men indeed as well as most sects in Religion, think themselves in possession of all truth, and that wherever others differ from them it is so far error. Steele a Protestant in a Dedication tells the Pope, that the only difference between our Churches in their opinions of the certainty of their doctrines is, the Church of Rome is infallible and the Church of England is never in the wrong. But though many private persons think almost as highly of their own infallibility as of that of their sect, few express it so naturally as a certain french lady, who in a dispute with her sister, said "I don't know how it happens, Sister but I meet with no body but myself, that's always in the right — Il n'y a que moi qui a toujours raison."


In these sentiments, Sir, I agree to this Constitution with all its faults, if they are such; because I think a general Government necessary for us, and there is no form of Government but what may be a blessing to the people if well administered, and believe farther that this is likely to be well administered for a course of years, and can only end in Despotism, as other forms have done before it, when the people shall become so corrupted as to need despotic Government, being incapable of any other. I doubt too whether any other Convention we can obtain, may be able to make a better Constitution. For when you assemble a number of men to have the advantage of their joint wisdom, you inevitably assemble with those men, all their prejudices, their passions, their errors of opinion, their local interests, and their selfish views. From such an assembly can a perfect production be expected? It therefore astonishes me, Sir, to find this system approaching so near to perfection as it does; and I think it will astonish our enemies, who are waiting with confidence to hear that our councils are confounded like those of the Builders of Babel; and that our States are on the point of separation, only to meet hereafter for the purpose of cutting one another's throats. Thus I consent, Sir, to this Constitution because I expect no better, and because I am not sure, that it is not the best. The opinions I have had of its errors, I sacrifice to the public good. I have never whispered a syllable of them abroad. Within these walls they were born, and here they shall die. If every one of us in returning to our Constituents were to report the objections he has had to it, and endeavor to gain partizans in support of them, we might prevent its being generally received, and thereby lose all the salutary effects & great advantages resulting naturally in our favor among foreign Nations as well as among ourselves, from our real or apparent unanimity. Much of the strength & efficiency of any Government in procuring and securing happiness to the people, depends, on opinion, on the general opinion of the goodness of the Government, as well as of the wisdom and integrity of its Governors. I hope therefore that for our own sakes as a part of the people, and for the sake of posterity, we shall act heartily and unanimously in recommending this Constitution (if approved by Congress & confirmed by the Conventions) wherever our influence may extend, and turn our future thoughts & endeavors to the means of having it well administered.


On the whole, Sir, I can not help expressing a wish that every member of the Convention who may still have objections to it, would with me, on this occasion doubt a little of his own infallibility, and to make manifest our unanimity, put his name to this instrument.

BucEyedPea
02-22-2009, 02:39 PM
Bring back the Articles of Confederation.

aturnis
02-22-2009, 03:26 PM
I'm pretty sure Barack Obama knows he doesn't have all the answers, and has said as much many times.

Dave Lane
02-22-2009, 04:09 PM
Bring back the Articles of Confederation.

Why stop there, I say bring back George III !!

Stewie
02-22-2009, 04:21 PM
I'm pretty sure Barack Obama knows he doesn't have all the answers, and has said as much many times.

He had all the answers until he won. Then he backed off big time ("people who voted for me voted for the person I am not!) because now he has to produce. Who is he listening to? The same old tired bankers, Fed jokers, advisers... Summers? Really? Geithner? Were these the people by his side when he accepted the position? NO! He tries to project an image that is completely impossible. I wish him well, but I'm betting against him.

BucEyedPea
02-22-2009, 04:27 PM
Why stop there, I say bring back George III !!

Well, if ya' really wanna know, monarchy can be a fine form of govt. A That is if you get a benign one. The problem with it is you can't guarantee anything with succession. So a republic is the next best thing...or a loose federation.

And no George the III was certifiably crazy...and was blamed at home for losing the colonies.

petegz28
02-22-2009, 04:36 PM
I'm pretty sure Barack Obama knows he doesn't have all the answers, and has said as much many times.

Didn't stop him from wasting almost $1 trillion of our money

Direckshun
02-22-2009, 05:22 PM
Bring back the Articles of Confederation.
Bring back Shay's Rebellion!

BucEyedPea
02-22-2009, 05:31 PM
I'd love it because the European war investors were demanding payment in gold and silver.:thumb:

aturnis
02-22-2009, 08:15 PM
Didn't stop him from wasting almost $1 trillion of our money

...and how much did Bush waste? There's the $1.3 trillion deficit...and how much was his stimulus worth? Not to mention his funding of failed programs such as "No Child Left Behind". Give me a break.

petegz28
02-22-2009, 08:24 PM
...and how much did Bush waste? There's the $1.3 trillion deficit...and how much was his stimulus worth? Not to mention his funding of failed programs such as "No Child Left Behind". Give me a break.

So it's ok for Obama to repeat?

J Diddy
02-22-2009, 09:13 PM
So it's ok for Obama to repeat?


Difference being Bush's deficit was due to military spending in a war we shouldn't have been in. At least Obama's spending it on us.

banyon
02-22-2009, 09:16 PM
Difference being Bush's deficit was due to military spending in a war we shouldn't have been in. At least Obama's spending it on us.

That's true. At least this money (even if some of it is waste) is on our infrastructure.

petegz28
02-22-2009, 09:19 PM
Difference being Bush's deficit was due to military spending in a war we shouldn't have been in. At least Obama's spending it on us.

Fair enough, except we could of cut out 1/2 the spending on this bill and get the same amount of stimulation from it.

NickAthanFan
02-22-2009, 09:23 PM
Difference being Bush's deficit was due to military spending in a war we shouldn't have been in. At least Obama's spending it on us.

Us? I'm not getting anything. I do get to give more to you I guess. Hooray.

banyon
02-22-2009, 09:40 PM
Us? I'm not getting anything. I do get to give more to you I guess. Hooray.

You don't use roads, bridges, make more than $75k, don't own a small business that makes less than $15 million, aren't purchasing any new equipment for your small business, don't want to buy a new car, aren't a first time home buyer, don't have a kid in college, refuse to use more efficient energy even if it becomes cheaper, aren't a teacher, don't use health care, aren't ever going to contract certain diseases, and are insulated from the effects of increased consumption throughout the economy?

I think I've got it figured out:

You're Dr. Moreau from that sh***y Marlon Brando movie.

petegz28
02-22-2009, 09:47 PM
Us? I'm not getting anything. I do get to give more to you I guess. Hooray.

This is the exact problem with our society today. You benefit by others getting the benefits. If your neighbor has his house foreclosed, your house WILL go down in value. I am not thrilled about alot of things either in this spending bill but some of it just has to happen. It benefits you for your neighbor not to be broke. It benefits you in the long run. I know it sucks, I am not going to get the direct benefits from this bill either. But in the long run if it helps the country then it helps you and me both.

NickAthanFan
02-22-2009, 09:55 PM
This is the exact problem with our society today. You benefit by others getting the benefits. If your neighbor has his house foreclosed, your house WILL go down in value. I am not thrilled about alot of things either in this spending bill but some of it just has to happen. It benefits you for your neighbor not to be broke. It benefits you in the long run. I know it sucks, I am not going to get the direct benefits from this bill either. But in the long run if it helps the country then it helps you and me both.

The housing market isn't going to return to the artifically inflated highs of 05 for at least a decade, more like 2. If you've ever looked at historical trends, the ups and downs of markets, real estate is usually down 20, up 10. We just came off the up 10.

Taking money from producers to give to people who are not, does not prop society up. It tears it down.

petegz28
02-22-2009, 10:01 PM
The housing market isn't going to return to the artifically inflated highs of 05 for at least a decade, more like 2. If you've ever looked at historical trends, the ups and downs of markets, real estate is usually down 20, up 10. We just came off the up 10.

Taking money from producers to give to people who are not, does not prop society up. It tears it down.

We will have to disagree in this case. It was not a natural cycle in real estate prices that caused this, but rather bad decisions made by investment banks that chose to securitize loans and then trade the insurance on said loans on unregulated markets. So in other words, the people are paying the price for the bad decisions some greedy companies made. I am not talking about people who tool out interest only or 0-down loans, mind you.

penchief
02-22-2009, 10:50 PM
IMO, Ben Franklin is the true father of our country. Everything America represents is embodied in Franklin's life and philosophy; Liberty, independence, ingenuity, work ethic, humanity. America followed his lead.

His contributions to American society and the revolution were invaluable. He was one of a kind and no other person could have filled his shoes at that period in human history.

Amnorix
02-23-2009, 09:06 AM
Bring back the Articles of Confederation.

Wow, you are over the top. Even your boys Madison and Jefferson rejected them.