Will you vote differently

[HonestChieffan]

If its possible put your partisan hat away for a second and give some thought to this.

It seems to me we were all wronged by the house and the senate on this Stimulus vote. Regardless of if it was needed, to small, to big or whatever it just seems like the congress has walked away from its obligations on a number of fronts. Tis isnt about the bill, its about how WE are represented.

First, the bill was put together under a cloak of secrecy that House and Senate Democrats and Republicans could not break. Is that the way we expect legislation to begin? What other bills will move forward in that manner?

Then, the committee didnt allow for amendments or discussions.

On the floor debate was prevented, no ammendments were allowed per the rules committee. That prevented democrats as well as republicans to participate in the final language.

The conference committee that worked on the two versions was a closed session..

The final votes were done again without any debate, amendments or discussion one more time preventing your representative whomever thwey are from having any impact.

It seems we have been cheated badly by subversion of the process. Your and my representatives were not allowed to voice the needs of thier stste or district. They were not allowed dissent with their own party. And worse was they voted for something they did not know the contents of or they voted against something they didnt know the contents of.

Will you consider that in the next election? Can you in all fairness vote to return any of them? What happened to process and principal? And when did they get elected to represent the party and not the constituents at home?

Democrat or Republican...can we be smart enough to say no to this sort of thing?

[Simplex3]

I voted Libertarian last time, so no, I won't change unless the Libertarian candidates are retarded.

[Taco John]

I will vote for either a libertarian or a republican.

I will not vote for a socialist, regarless of what party he is attached to.

[alanm]

I will vote for either a libertarian or a republican.

I will not vote for a socialist, regarless of what party he is attached to.:bravo::bravo::bravo:

[ClevelandBronco]

I voted Libertarian last time, so no, I won't change unless the Libertarian candidates are retarded.

It would be odd for them to suddenly not be.

[Garcia Bronco]

I voted for Bob Barr last time.

[Direckshun]

If its possible put your partisan hat away for a second and give some thought to this.

It seems to me we were all wronged by the house and the senate on this Stimulus vote. Regardless of if it was needed, to small, to big or whatever it just seems like the congress has walked away from its obligations on a number of fronts. Tis isnt about the bill, its about how WE are represented.

First, the bill was put together under a cloak of secrecy that House and Senate Democrats and Republicans could not break. Is that the way we expect legislation to begin? What other bills will move forward in that manner?

Then, the committee didnt allow for amendments or discussions.

On the floor debate was prevented, no ammendments were allowed per the rules committee. That prevented democrats as well as republicans to participate in the final language.

The conference committee that worked on the two versions was a closed session..

The final votes were done again without any debate, amendments or discussion one more time preventing your representative whomever thwey are from having any impact.

It seems we have been cheated badly by subversion of the process. Your and my representatives were not allowed to voice the needs of thier stste or district. They were not allowed dissent with their own party. And worse was they voted for something they did not know the contents of or they voted against something they didnt know the contents of.

Will you consider that in the next election? Can you in all fairness vote to return any of them? What happened to process and principal? And when did they get elected to represent the party and not the constituents at home?

Democrat or Republican...can we be smart enough to say no to this sort of thing?

I've been a critic from day one of the opaqueness of how Obama handled the final days of the stimulus package, especially considering how transparent the process was in the House and the Senate. I've also been disappointed he hasn't lived up to his promise of leaving bills open for public comment on his website for five days before he signs them.

I will continue criticizing that, but for me, if the policies are generally how I agree with, I'm probably going to stick with that, albeit constantly active to make sure my administration reflects what I want -- as I always do.

I'm hoping this was just a gotta-do-this-now thing, and that future bills will be far more transparent when the urgency isn't as extreme.

[ClevelandBronco]

I've been a critic from day one of the opaqueness of how Obama handled the final days of the stimulus package, especially considering how transparent the process was in the House and the Senate. I've also been disappointed he hasn't lived up to his promise of leaving bills open for public comment on his website for five days before he signs them.

I will continue criticizing that, but for me, if the policies are generally how I agree with, I'm probably going to stick with that, albeit constantly active to make sure my administration reflects what I want -- as I always do.

I'm hoping this was just a gotta-do-this-now thing, and that future bills will be far more transparent when the urgency isn't as extreme.

You sound as if you'd like to be an honorable man.

[HonestChieffan]

I guess im looking at this from a different perspective. I have voted for Ike Skelton for a long time. Come next election I do not see how I can. He really let me down with a total lack of any leadership to make the process work. And he has the time and grade to have made a difference.

Claire was equally a disappointment. I did not vote for her but i respected her stand on earmarks. That just was lipservice becuase when push came to shove she has been silent. Its like she is on the anti earmark bandwagon untill she had to actually do something.

[Nightwish]

It's always a tough decision for me whenever the major elections come around. On the one hand, I can't stand the two-party system anymore. On the other hand, I don't want my vote to be a throw-away vote on a party that has no chance of getting elected. Over the past two decades, I've waded back and forth between Republican, Democrat and Libertarian. After the last eight years, unless something dramatically changes within the party, I cannot in good conscience vote for a Republican. I've been disappointed with the lack of productivity with the Democratically controlled Congress the last couple years, but at worst they've been no worse than the Republican Congress that reigned before them, and at best they've been dead weight. As for Obama, nobody knows how well or how badly this stimulus will work out. Everybody has their theories, but ultimately it could go either way, so I'll wait until I see how it plays out before I decide whether voting for him was a mistake or not. I gave Bush a couple years before I started kicking myself for voting for him in 2000, and I can't do less for Obama. As far as Socialists, I honestly couldn't give a whit one way or the other. I'm not going to carry a flag for Socialism, but I'm not frightened of it either, at least not of the hybrid Socio-Capitalism that is the direction we are actually going in.

[HonestChieffan]

I cant couch this issue on party lines. We dont vote for a party, we dont send a party to congress.

[banyon]

I have already posted criticism of this process earlier in this forum, but it's silly to suggest that there's a meaningful difference between the parties on this particular topic.

Republicans did the same things with the Patriot Act, and when they "fast-tracked" NAFTA through. They'll plan to do it again too with an even worse cowardly unaccountable "up or down" vote on Social Security revisions probably some time later in this Presidential term.

[Silock]

No one I voted for voted for the Stimulus package.

[jAZ]

Too small and too big are vastly different things.

If you think it's too small, there are other methods to increase spending. If you think it's too big, there's no taking it back.

I am in the too small catagory, but I'm very happy with what they got through.

I don't think you are going to get many of the "it's too small" camp to join in your "throw the bums out!" party.

[jAZ]

I've been a critic from day one of the opaqueness of how Obama handled the final days of the stimulus package, especially considering how transparent the process was in the House and the Senate. I've also been disappointed he hasn't lived up to his promise of leaving bills open for public comment on his website for five days before he signs them.

I will continue criticizing that, but for me, if the policies are generally how I agree with, I'm probably going to stick with that, albeit constantly active to make sure my administration reflects what I want -- as I always do.

I'm hoping this was just a gotta-do-this-now thing, and that future bills will be far more transparent when the urgency isn't as extreme.

Agreed 100%.

[HonestChieffan]

Electing the person in your district is far different than voting for President. I cant see where party has anything to do with the fact these people, regardless of party, have tossed thier principals and the very reason we send them aside. Is this what we want?

[banyon]

Electing the person in your district is far different than voting for President. I cant see where party has anything to do with the fact these people, regardless of party, have tossed thier principals and the very reason we send them aside. Is this what we want?

It has everything to do with it, because there would have to be a viable alternative that would behave differently.

[ClevelandBronco]

Agreed 100%.

Another who wishes he was virtuous.

[HonestChieffan]

So you vote in the representaive election based on the party not the individual?

[Buster Hymen]

No one I voted for voted for the Stimulus package.

I was proud of the house R's on this vote, and the three traitors in the senate will lose their jobs over this.

This whole farce is opening the door to Republicans in 2010.

[banyon]

So you vote in the representaive election based on the party not the individual?

No, and there's nothing in my post that would lead anyone to conclude that either.

[FishingRod]

I voted for Bob Barr last time.

I did to. I liked Michael Badnerik better the time before.

I am disgusted both the Democrats and Republicans. I think neither party has done a very good job of putting country above party.

[HonestChieffan]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan
Electing the person in your district is far different than voting for President. I cant see where party has anything to do with the fact these people, regardless of party, have tossed thier principals and the very reason we send them aside. Is this what we want?

Baynon responded
It has everything to do with it, because there would have to be a viable alternative that would behave differently.


I took your answer to say you would vote party over individual. I was confused I guess. So you will vote for a new person rather than vote for the one who we jnow voted as they did? Is that what you are saying?

[jAZ]

Another who wishes he was virtuous.

You say that as if you have experience with virtue and honor.

[banyon]

Originally Posted by HonestChieffan
Electing the person in your district is far different than voting for President. I cant see where party has anything to do with the fact these people, regardless of party, have tossed thier principals and the very reason we send them aside. Is this what we want?

Baynon responded
It has everything to do with it, because there would have to be a viable alternative that would behave differently.


I took your answer to say you would vote party over individual. I was confused I guess. So you will vote for a new person rather than vote for the one who we jnow voted as they did? Is that what you are saying?

No, I am saying that I doubt there will be any viable candidates who run in my voting districts that will have stances meaningfully different on this issue, so no, I doubt it will alter my vote.

[Rain Man]

I always lean hard toward voting against the incumbent unless it's really someone I respect, and I don't have that much loyalty to anyone. So for me, this will be no different, other than the fact that in four years voting will be limited only to people making under $100,000 per year.

[HonestChieffan]

just how bad does an incumbant have to be to vote for a replacement? Have we not gotten enough of this treatment to feel like we were given a bad performance by our representatives?

[patteeu]

I've been a critic from day one of the opaqueness of how Obama handled the final days of the stimulus package, especially considering how transparent the process was in the House and the Senate. I've also been disappointed he hasn't lived up to his promise of leaving bills open for public comment on his website for five days before he signs them.

I will continue criticizing that, but for me, if the policies are generally how I agree with, I'm probably going to stick with that, albeit constantly active to make sure my administration reflects what I want -- as I always do.

I'm hoping this was just a gotta-do-this-now thing, and that future bills will be far more transparent when the urgency isn't as extreme.

So that's what this "hope" thing was all about. You get to keep hoping that Obama will eventually change.

[Calcountry]

I've been a critic from day one of the opaqueness of how Obama handled the final days of the stimulus package, especially considering how transparent the process was in the House and the Senate. I've also been disappointed he hasn't lived up to his promise of leaving bills open for public comment on his website for five days before he signs them.

I will continue criticizing that, but for me, if the policies are generally how I agree with, I'm probably going to stick with that, albeit constantly active to make sure my administration reflects what I want -- as I always do.

I'm hoping this was just a gotta-do-this-now thing, and that future bills will be far more transparent when the urgency isn't as extreme.The "got to do this now" thing had more to do with making him look good, than anything to do with stimulating the economy

[Otter]

I voted Libertarian last time, so no, I won't change unless the Libertarian candidates are retarded.

What he said

[ClevelandBronco]

You say that as if you have experience with virtue and honor.

No, I whore out my vote just like the vast majority here.

[HonestChieffan]

Sure seems like for a bunch of people with a lot of opinions, no one seems to even draw a distinction between National/Presidential elections and US House of Representative elections. And the apathy of well if nothing is better why change attitude is downright disheartening.

It does help understand why we have fallen to this level however.

[King_Chief_Fan]

I will vote the same....against Obama

[tmax63]

I have a tendency to vote party over candidate because the system is set up so that "to the victor goes the spoils". Whoever wins the majority gets to set the rules, chair the committees, etc, etc. We see this now with the Dems running over the Reps with the stimulus bill and the Reps did it back when they had control. That's why we seldom have one-party control for very long. There hasn't been 10 statesmen (people who really thought country before party or re-election) in the last 30 years.