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View Full Version : Football Could Cassel be part of the Vrabel deal?


MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 01:59 PM
:cuss:

Patriots beat writer Mike Reiss wonders if Mike Vrabel's trade could be part of a larger deal including Matt Cassel.

Now that would be a doozy. Reiss is one of the most well-respected beat writers in the country, and is usually very cautious to publish anything resembling speculation. He rightly points out that we have no idea what the compensation in the Vrabel trade is.
Source: Boston Globe

Brock
02-27-2009, 01:59 PM
It shouldn't surprise anyone if it happens.

RustShack
02-27-2009, 01:59 PM
Repost #101

-King-
02-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Hmm, A deal between the two most secretive teams in the NFL. Damn, we wont know the compensation until draft day.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:00 PM
Repost #101

dont care.

-King-
02-27-2009, 02:01 PM
Reporter: Scott, with the 3rd pick, how come you didn't draft a quarterback knowing Thigpen is the only qb you have?

Pioli: Oh shit, did I forget to tell you, we traded for Peyton Manning in March.

CrazyHorse
02-27-2009, 02:09 PM
Wouldn't they pretty much have to have a deal in place with Cassel himself? It seems early for that.

Yes I agree you figure out compensation with the Pats 1st. But once you do that, you negotiate the money with Cassel before you pull the trigger on the deal.

So either the deal is complete which seems early, or there is no such deal for a 2 players trade, IMO.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-27-2009, 02:11 PM
I'm gonna repost this:

There is no way the Chiefs would be dumb enough to trade that for Cassell.

I would really like someone to explain to me how Matt Cassell is worth 1540 points. The entire Patriots Draft isn't even worth that.

So, unless you are telling me that Matt Cassell is worth more than our 2nd-7th rounders, plus next year's first, I don't know what else to say.

Mr. Plow
02-27-2009, 02:12 PM
A better question would be why isn't LJ part of the trade.

JASONSAUTO
02-27-2009, 02:13 PM
schefter said last night that his source calls cassell a top 5-8 qb RIGHT NOW. also said that the chiefs and lions should be on the phone already. he went on to state that if cassell was at the combine this year he would be the #1 pick without a doubt in his mind. and to all of the "he has no arm" guys it looked like that might not be true with the clips they showed on nfl net last night

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:14 PM
schefter said last night that his source calls cassell a top 5-8 qb RIGHT NOW. also said that the chiefs and lions should be on the phone already. he went on to state that if cassell was at the combine this year he would be the #1 pick without a doubt in his mind. and to all of the "he has no arm" guys it looked like that might not be true with the clips they showed on nfl net last night

Yea I saw that too, but there is NO WAY that guy is a top 5-8 QB no way in hell.

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:15 PM
Yea I saw that too, but there is NO WAY that guy is a top 5-8 QB no way in hell.

So you saw all of his games last season?

BigRedChief
02-27-2009, 02:16 PM
I'm gonna repost this:

There is no way the Chiefs would be dumb enough to trade that for Cassell.

I would really like someone to explain to me how Matt Cassell is worth 1540 points. The entire Patriots Draft isn't even worth that.

So, unless you are telling me that Matt Cassell is worth more than our 2nd-7th rounders, plus next year's first, I don't know what else to say.
No chit. This is Pioli we are talking about. No one snookers him on trades or draft day.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:19 PM
So you saw all of his games last season?

que?

Brock
02-27-2009, 02:19 PM
I'm not crazy about the idea, nor do I think the Chiefs should overpay to the rumored extent, BUT. I have made a point of watching the games that Cassel played in whenever they're replayed on NFLN, and I have to say that he's not nearly the POS that some people around here claim he is. He made some throws that Thigpen could only dream about.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:19 PM
No chit. This is Pioli we are talking about. No one snookers him on trades or draft day.

Or so we thought.....

mrdad45
02-27-2009, 02:20 PM
I wouldn't be upset about this...as long as nothing happens with our 1st round pick (aka Curry).

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:21 PM
que?

You're making a claim about Cassel and I'm trying to discover what you're basing that claim on.

soundmind
02-27-2009, 02:23 PM
If Cassel were coming out of school right now, would he still be coming out as a backup? :D I can't get enough today....

Not really advocating one way or another, but the hush on Cassel, the re-signing of Culpepper in the Motor City, and the quiet nature of Pioli's Chiefs, it would not surprise me in the slightest if we grab him up.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:24 PM
You're making a claim about Cassel and I'm trying to discover what you're basing that claim on.

Yea I watched more than a few games the Pats played. (and Mecca said so.)

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:26 PM
Yea I watched more than a few games the Pats played. (and Mecca said so.)

Which games?

doomy3
02-27-2009, 02:26 PM
I posted this in another thread, but:

If Pioli thinks Cassel is better than Stafford or Sanchez (really only Sanchez will be there at 3), then I will fully trust him on a trade, and won't be upset in the least. He certainly knows more about Cassel than anyone on here.

Also, it would have been interesting if Cassel and Sanchez were both at USC at the same time, who would have been the QB. I have heard/read that many wanted Cassel to start over Booty, but Carrol didn't want that. Very similar to Sanchez's sophomore year...

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:29 PM
I posted this in another thread, but:

If Pioli thinks Cassel is better than Stafford or Sanchez (really only Sanchez will be there at 3), then I will fully trust him on a trade, and won't be upset in the least. He certainly knows more about Cassel than anyone on here.

Also, it would have been interesting if Cassel and Sanchez were both at USC at the same time, who would have been the QB. I have heard/read that many wanted Cassel to start over Booty, but Carrol didn't want that. Very similar to Sanchez's sophomore year...


http://www.patsfans.com/new-england-patriots/messageboard/10/219080-shefter-cassel-qb-merged.html

Shefter is on NFL Network tonight and he was saying that the people around the Patriots and football that he's talked to are telling him they think Cassel in a Top Eight QB in the league. That's paraphrased, I didn't get it exactly right but Mike Lombardi chimed in and said he hears much the same thing.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:33 PM
Which games?

:) More than a few, do YOU think he's a top 5 QB right now?

BigRock
02-27-2009, 02:37 PM
It's not getting much play here that I've noticed, but another probably BS rumor is that the Pats and Panthers are working on some kind of Cassell-for-Peppers swap, and the Vrabel trade might have been for the Pats to free up a little cap space before signing Peppers.

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:39 PM
:) More than a few, do YOU think he's a top 5 QB right now?

Top 5? No. I watched all 16 games and I couldn't honestly slot him in a particular place, but I wouldn't be slotting him in the top 5. I think it's safe to say that he's in the upper half of NFL quarterbacks (which isn't necessarily saying much), but where I'd slot him beyond that is a mystery to me. On the one hand, he put up back-to-back 400 yard games and looked almost Brady-like at times. On the other hand, he only beat 2 playoff teams and he really struggled against the aggressive defenses of San Diego and Pittsburgh. I also don't have the coaches' tape (and conversations with those involved) to be able to evaluate how much of his success was on him and how much was on the surrounding cast.

However, he's only had the one year starting, and there's definitely still room for improvement. No matter where I might slot him now, I'd have to say that it's quite possible that he'll rise higher than that over the next couple of years.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:40 PM
Cassel was in a QB friendly system, throwing to Moss and Welker (one where he had 4 years to watch and learn)

17 of his 21 TDs came in 5 games against Arizona (3), Denver(3), Mia (4), Jets (3), and Oakland (4)

In the Patriots' losses, he had 4 TDs and 5 INTs

He also fumbled 7 times and lost 4

He had 4 games with 2 int

Look at the teams he faced, 7 of the 16 teams he faced gave up at least 23 PPG. Rams (29.1), DEN (28), KC (27.5) ARI (26.6), SEA (24.5), Oakland (24.2), and SF (23.8)

He was sacked at least 3 times in 10 Games and 47 times overall.

Maybe im alone but im not sold.

Just Passin' By
02-27-2009, 02:41 PM
Cassel was in a QB friendly system, throwing to Moss and Welker (one where he had 4 years to watch and learn)

17 of his 21 TDs came in 5 games against Arizona (3), Denver(3), Mia (4), Jets (3), and Oakland (4)

In the Patriots' losses, he had 4 TDs and 5 INTs

He also fumbled 7 times and lost 4

He had 4 games with 2 int

Look at the teams he faced, 7 of the 16 teams he faced gave up at least 23 PPG. Rams (29.1), DEN (28), KC (27.5) ARI (26.6), SEA (24.5), Oakland (24.2), and SF (23.8)

He was sacked at least 3 times in 10 Games and 47 times overall.

Maybe im alone but im not sold.

But you're taking a full season as if he was a plateau quarterback. That's just completely wrong. He improved an enormous amount over the course of the season.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:41 PM
Top 5? No. I watched all 16 games and I couldn't honestly slot him in a particular place, but I wouldn't be slotting him in the top 5. I think it's safe to say that he's in the upper half of NFL quarterbacks (which isn't necessarily saying much), but where I'd slot him beyond that is a mystery to me. On the one hand, he put up back-to-back 400 yard games and looked almost Brady-like at times. On the other hand, he only beat 2 playoff teams and he really struggled against the aggressive defenses of San Diego and Pittsburgh. I also don't have the coaches' tape (and conversations with those involved) to be able to evaluate how much of his success was on him and how much was on the surrounding cast.

However, he's only had the one year starting, and there's definitely still room for improvement. No matter where I might slot him now, I'd have to say that it's quite possible that he'll rise higher than that over the next couple of years.

I can agree with this, I just think people are high on the Pat's wagon and its a little too early to crown him the next Tom Brady.

soundmind
02-27-2009, 02:42 PM
It's not getting much play here that I've noticed, but another probably BS rumor is that the Pats and Panthers are working on some kind of Cassell-for-Peppers swap, and the Vrabel trade might have been for the Pats to free up a little cap space before signing Peppers.

I love Free Agency Friday. Minus our own local sh*theap of a "columnist" Fatlock (term being used very liberally) ....it's an absolute f**kin' rollercoaster...and I love that its abundant with theories.

Sofa King
02-27-2009, 02:47 PM
definantly against a cassel trade.. keep our #3, give thiggy a shot, if he sucks, draft a QB in the 1st next year... some good ones coming out..

Shox
02-27-2009, 02:50 PM
If we give up our #3 pick for him I will be very disappointed. A second would be a good deal, he is certainly worth a shot then.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:51 PM
Hmm wonder if TonyG and a 3rd or 4th would work?

Chief3188
02-27-2009, 02:53 PM
It's not getting much play here that I've noticed, but another probably BS rumor is that the Pats and Panthers are working on some kind of Cassell-for-Peppers swap, and the Vrabel trade might have been for the Pats to free up a little cap space before signing Peppers.

That doesn't make sense though. Why would the Pats need to free up cap space to sign Peppers when unloading Cassell gives them 14 million freed up?

Rooster
02-27-2009, 02:53 PM
He made some throws that Thigpen could only dream about.

You mean throws of 30 yards or more. :evil:

Chief3188
02-27-2009, 02:54 PM
Hmm wonder if TonyG and a 3rd or 4th would work?

If we are getting a new QB I don't think trading his best weapon would be in his or our best interests do you?

MOhillbilly
02-27-2009, 02:56 PM
I'm gonna repost this:

There is no way the Chiefs would be dumb enough to trade that for Cassell.

I would really like someone to explain to me how Matt Cassell is worth 1540 points. The entire Patriots Draft isn't even worth that.

So, unless you are telling me that Matt Cassell is worth more than our 2nd-7th rounders, plus next year's first, I don't know what else to say.

were talkin about the chiefs here. its almost second nature.

doomy3
02-27-2009, 02:56 PM
That doesn't make sense though. Why would the Pats need to free up cap space to sign Peppers when unloading Cassell gives them 14 million freed up?

Peppers was franchised, so in order to get him, they would need to trade for him.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 02:56 PM
If we are getting a new QB I don't think trading his best weapon would be in his or our best interests do you?

If the guy wants out, Id like to get something for him while I can, so yea I do.

ChiefsCountry
02-27-2009, 02:58 PM
I dont think KC would be a good fit for Cassel. Minnesota would have been ideal. Detroit could be a nice option as well.

Chief3188
02-27-2009, 02:59 PM
Peppers was franchised, so in order to get him, they would need to trade for him.

I understand that. What I am saying is why would the Pats need to trade Vrabel in order to free up cap space in order to trade Cassell for Peppers and have enough space to sign Peppers when unloading Cassell gives them that space in the first place.

doomy3
02-27-2009, 03:01 PM
I understand that. What I am saying is why would the Pats need to trade Vrabel in order to free up cap space in order to trade Cassell for Peppers and have enough space to sign Peppers when unloading Cassell gives them that space in the first place.

I don't think it was about freeing up cap space, but Vrabel and Peppers play/would play the same position in New England, so they freed up the position if this were to happen.

Chief3188
02-27-2009, 03:01 PM
If the guy wants out, Id like to get something for him while I can, so yea I do.

Well fair enough but I guess that depends on if the compensation we receive is more valuable to our teams future rather than helping to develop a QB by giving him every chance to succeed with good players.

Chief3188
02-27-2009, 03:01 PM
I don't think it was about freeing up cap space, but Vrabel and Peppers play/would play the same position in New England, so they freed up the position if this were to happen.

That could very well be true.

orange
02-27-2009, 03:02 PM
Hmm, A deal between the two most secretive teams in the NFL. Damn, we wont know the compensation until draft day.

They'll probably exchange 7th rounders in 2010 just so they can append "plus undisclosed picks" to the announcement.

DaWolf
02-27-2009, 03:18 PM
There might be more than meets the eye to the deal between the New England Patriots and the Kansas City Chiefs, then we know about at this time. We do know that Mike Vrabel is headed to KC, supposedly for an undisclosed draft pick. Who or what else might be included, may not be known until later this evening.

Sources out of New England, have it pegged thatís thereís a ďmajor announcementĒ involving this KC-NE trade coming at 6 pm EST tonight. Does the deal include quarterback Matt Cassel going to KC along with Vrabel? KC sending a player and possibly draft picks as part of the package? Or is it just the media having fun and messing with the minds of NFL fans?

No one knows at this time, but weíll have the answers in just about 75 (itís 4:53 pm currently) minutes or so. Stay tuned as Iíll have all the details once itís all know. This could become a very interesting move for both sides, if thereís more to it than we know at this time. Would be a great for both clubs, helps get KC the players they need to rebuild faster. While freeing up salary cap on the NE side of it, plus a few extra draft picks means an ability to reshape the defense also.

http://musketfire.com/2009/02/27/1618/

doomy3
02-27-2009, 03:22 PM
http://musketfire.com/2009/02/27/1618/

Holy Shit. This would be crazy.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 03:24 PM
http://musketfire.com/2009/02/27/1618/

http://emmaline2.homestead.com/files/nuke4.jpg

Mecca
02-27-2009, 03:30 PM
Atleast we now know Pioli realizes you don't use top 5 picks on LB's...

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 03:31 PM
Atleast we now know Pioli realizes you don't use top 5 picks on LB's...

There he is!!!

Mecca
02-27-2009, 03:33 PM
There he is!!!

Were you waiting on something?

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 03:35 PM
Were you waiting on something?

Yea we've been having fun all day w/o you. :)

tboss27
02-27-2009, 03:52 PM
I dont think KC would be a good fit for Cassel. Minnesota would have been ideal. Detroit could be a nice option as well.

If he's a good fit for them he's a good fit for us. We might not be his #1 choice, but he doesn't get a say in the matter. Each of those teams needs a QB in the worst way, he fits w/ any of them.

Mecca
02-27-2009, 03:53 PM
If he's a good fit for them he's a good fit for us. We might not be his #1 choice, but he doesn't get a say in the matter.

Minnesota is a win now team where if their QB can just play ok they would have a shot...that is nothing like here.

DrRyan
02-27-2009, 03:57 PM
Atleast we now know Pioli realizes you don't use top 5 picks on LB's...

How exactly do we know that?

sedated
02-27-2009, 04:03 PM
http://musketfire.com/2009/02/27/1618/

announcement at 6pm EST? Isn't that 3 minutes ago here in the midwest?

Huffman83
02-27-2009, 04:09 PM
I think 6pm ish is implied.

I don't know how..but an "ish" is involved."

Mecca
02-27-2009, 04:11 PM
How exactly do we know that?

The Sarcasm meter is broken today.

sparkky
02-27-2009, 04:13 PM
Hmm wonder if TonyG and a 3rd or 4th would work?

I doubt it.
NE has signed TE Chris Baker and RB Fred Taylor to add to their "stable" of running backs.

not saying Baker=Gonzo but signing a TE and trading for one the same day could be a first I would think. Baker isn't really known as a "blocking" TE.
and Taylor added to the many RBs they already have would exclude LJ too. not for sure even NE would want the baggage that LJ brings.

IMO

kstater
02-27-2009, 04:17 PM
If he's a good fit for them he's a good fit for us. We might not be his #1 choice, but he doesn't get a say in the matter. Each of those teams needs a QB in the worst way, he fits w/ any of them.

Actually Cassell has a very important say in where he goes. If a team is going to trade for him, he'll have to sign off on it by negotiating a contract.

Detoxing
02-27-2009, 04:18 PM
So i take it that this 6pm ish rumor is BS?

tboss27
02-27-2009, 04:21 PM
Actually Cassell has a very important say in where he goes. If a team is going to trade for him, he'll have to sign off on it by negotiating a contract.

I highly doubt if Cassel were traded he would hold out on signing a contract in hopes to be traded somewhere else. The guy wants to play, not watch Brady from the bench.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 04:22 PM
nothing on Boston.com

kstater
02-27-2009, 04:25 PM
I highly doubt if Cassel were traded he would hold out on signing a contract in hopes to be traded somewhere else. The guy wants to play, not watch Brady from the bench.

No team will trade a 1st round pick(and likely more) for a player that has a 1 year contract. Won't happen. He'll agree to a contract prior to being traded. Therefore he can choose where to go. Ever heard of a guy named Jared Allen? He had kind of a similar situation last year.

Pioli Zombie
02-27-2009, 04:26 PM
Yea I watched more than a few games the Pats played. (and Mecca said so.)

Another Meccasexual,huh?


This Cassel isn't that great stuff cracks me up

Patriot fans, the people who have watched Tom Brady for nearly a decade, are gaga over the kid. There was even a bonehead trade brady crowd. If people who have been spoiled to death by the best came to love the kid by the end of the year......

I mean get real people.
Posted via Mobile Device

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 04:29 PM
Another Meccasexual,huh?


This Cassel isn't that great stuff cracks me up

Patriot fans, the people who have watched Tom Brady for nearly a decade, are gaga over the kid. There was even a bonehead trade brady crowd. If people who have been spoiled to death by the best came to love the kid by the end of the year......

I mean get real people.
Posted via Mobile Device

http://wwwdelivery.superstock.com/WI/223/1647/PreviewComp/SuperStock_1647R-74446.jpg

Terribilis
02-27-2009, 04:31 PM
Another Meccasexual,huh?


This Cassel isn't that great stuff cracks me up

Patriot fans, the people who have watched Tom Brady for nearly a decade, are gaga over the kid. There was even a bonehead trade brady crowd. If people who have been spoiled to death by the best came to love the kid by the end of the year......

I mean get real people.
Posted via Mobile Device
QFT

kstater
02-27-2009, 04:32 PM
Another Meccasexual,huh?


This Cassel isn't that great stuff cracks me up

Patriot fans, the people who have watched Tom Brady for nearly a decade, are gaga over the kid. There was even a bonehead trade brady crowd. If people who have been spoiled to death by the best came to love the kid by the end of the year......

I mean get real people.
Posted via Mobile Device

You mean fans of a team liked their QB? Well that's shocking.

tboss27
02-27-2009, 04:38 PM
No team will trade a 1st round pick(and likely more) for a player that has a 1 year contract. Won't happen. He'll agree to a contract prior to being traded. Therefore he can choose where to go. Ever heard of a guy named Jared Allen? He had kind of a similar situation last year.

Itís apples and oranges. Cassel wants a chance to start, end of story. Allen was a premier player at his position who was sick of playing for an awful team in the process of rebuilding. He demanded a trade to a contender, we complied cause we got picks to rebuild with. Cassel has played 15 games in the NFL. He may have the power to refuse a trade by not signing a contract, but thereís no chance he will refuse the first chance he gets to go start somewhere. The Patriots aren't going to be at his mercy like we were Allen's, they know he wants to start somewhere and if they want to trade him they'll take the best offer they can find, and Cassel will be giddy about it.

Pioli Zombie
02-27-2009, 04:38 PM
You mean fans of a team liked their QB? Well that's shocking.
We are talking Boston fans. Cynical. Whiney. Spoiled Boston fans.

Most qbs get rheemed out of new england

Try knowing what you are talking about
Posted via Mobile Device

Tuckdaddy
02-27-2009, 04:41 PM
Getting Matt would not bother me one bit. He's got what draft picks don't have. Real NFL experience.

sedated
02-27-2009, 04:42 PM
Allen was a premier player at his position who was sick of playing for an awful team in the process of rebuilding.

I think Allen just wanted to get away from King Carl

Tuckdaddy
02-27-2009, 04:47 PM
Getting Matt would not bother me one bit. He's got what draft picks don't have. Real NFL experience.

doomy3
02-27-2009, 04:48 PM
You mean fans of a team liked their QB? Well that's shocking.

Actually, it is shocking. I wish I followed a team like that.

ChiefsCountry
02-27-2009, 04:48 PM
Actually, it is shocking. I wish I followed a team like that.

Come April you can.