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View Full Version : Chiefs Heh at the end of the first day of FA what do we have to show, Mike freaking Vrabel


MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 09:33 PM
Not sure what I had expected, but I guess I had hoped for a little more than that. Rome wasn’t built in a day or something like that right?

jAZ
02-27-2009, 09:35 PM
Just shut up.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-27-2009, 09:35 PM
Not sure what I had expected, but I guess I had hoped for a little more than that. Rome wasn’t built in a day or something like that right?

No. But spending as much money as the Chiefs need to spend should get started sooner rather than later. Unless of course they're shipping #3 off to NE and want to make Matt Cassel the highest paid QB in the league.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 09:36 PM
Just shut up.

blow me fucko

ArrowheadMagic
02-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Has Clark fired Pioli yet? Or is he too busy loving on soccer now? Doooooommmmed!1!1!111!!!!!

ChiefRon
02-27-2009, 09:37 PM
I didn't expect a whole lot, but with the 2nd most cap space in the entire league, and needs at almost every position, and some good young experienced talent available at some of those positions, I expected us to land at least 1 (or god forbid even 2) impact players.

jAZ
02-27-2009, 09:37 PM
Just shut up.

I'm not going to edit this, but I take it back.

Don't shut up.

I'll just add my objection to yours.

Which is to say, I'm sick of those people who have rushed to judge this new organization when it's drastically incomplete.

It's so unbelieveably early be frustrated by any lack of results.

doomy3
02-27-2009, 09:38 PM
You must have forgotten about this:

We also signed Receivers coach from the Indiana University of Pennsylvania to our coaching staff.

Nice work!!

Deberg_1990
02-27-2009, 09:40 PM
Damnit Scott!


I expected Haynsworth, Scott, Cassel, Canty and Fred Taylor by now!!

jAZ
02-27-2009, 09:40 PM
blow me ****o

No, but I will take it back.

ChiefRon
02-27-2009, 09:42 PM
Damnit Scott!


I expected Haynsworth, Scott, Cassel, Canty and Fred Taylor by now!!

I didn't expect that much, but I was really hoping we would land Brown. And it made so much sense, I guess I came to expect it.

Scott would have been nice, but I was pretty sure the Jets would get him if not Baltimore.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 09:42 PM
I didn't expect a whole lot, but with the 2nd most cap space in the entire league, and needs at almost every position, and some good young experienced talent available at some of those positions, I expected us to land at least 1 (or god forbid even 2) impact players.

Yea Im with you.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:02 PM
I didn't expect a whole lot, but with the 2nd most cap space in the entire league, and needs at almost every position, and some good young experienced talent available at some of those positions, I expected us to land at least 1 (or god forbid even 2) impact players.

Today is exactly as I expected (minus Vrabel) and I've posted as such several times.

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:05 PM
Today is exactly as I expected (minus Vrabel) and I've posted as such several times.

Yep, we should have listened to you, geniusROFL

DeezNutz
02-27-2009, 10:06 PM
Now that some of the "names" have found a home, expect a whole lot of "who the **** are those guys?". And I mean a lot.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:06 PM
Yep, we should have listened to you, geniusROFL

Hey Sam, when you fist yourself at night, do you scream your own name?

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:08 PM
Hey Sam, when you fist yourself at night, do you yell your own name?

That's funny because we all assume that's what you doROFL

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:09 PM
That's funny because we all assume that's what you doROFL

Who's we, cockbreath?

I'd be shocked if you could find ONE fucking person that would agree with your fucking retarded "takes".

You're a joke.

KcMizzou
02-27-2009, 10:09 PM
I'm not going to edit this, but I take it back.

Don't shut up.

I'll just add my objection to yours.

Which is to say, I'm sick of those people who have rushed to judge this new organization when it's drastically incomplete.

It's so unbelieveably early be frustrated by any lack of results.

Exactly.... WTF?

Calm down.

It's gonna be oooookkaaaayyyy. :evil:

KcMizzou
02-27-2009, 10:09 PM
(I meant everything but the Herm reference.)

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Who's we, cockbreath?

most of the boardROFL

OnTheWarpath58
02-27-2009, 10:10 PM
Yep, we should have listened to you, geniusROFL

Had you been listening to Clark Hunt for the past two months, you would have gotten the same thing you've gotten from Dane.

I can't believe people are surprised by this.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:11 PM
most of the boardROFL

Oh, you're so fucking funny.

Ha-ha.

Have fun with your little brown ring tonight.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:13 PM
Had you been listening to Clark Hunt for the past two months, you would have gotten the same thing you've gotten from Dane.

I can't believe people are surprised by this.

Sam's a graduate student that just too damn smart for the rest of us.

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:14 PM
Had you been listening to Clark Hunt for the past two months, you would have gotten the same thing you've gotten from Dane.

I can't believe people are surprised by this.

I knew what Clark was saying, and let's all listen to the genius Dane remind us of the obviousROFL. We're used to this in free agency.

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:15 PM
Sam's a graduate student that just too damn smart for the rest of us.

that coming from you? ROFL

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 10:16 PM
I know it's not a surprise but it's still frustrating that Clark Hunt is one of the cheapest owners in the NFL. Having David Glass own the Royals is bad enough, having to deal with another cheap ass in town just sucks.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:17 PM
I knew what Clark was saying, and let's all listen to the genius Dane remind us of the obviousROFL. We're used to this in free agency.

When have you added any VALUE to this forum?

You provide NO insight.

You don't have any solid views about anything.

You don't research.

You don't know jackshit.

I hope that's working for you with your graduate degree from the local trade school.

Sam Hall
02-27-2009, 10:18 PM
When have you added any VALUE to this forum?

You provide NO insight.

You don't have any solid views about anything.

You don't research.

You don't know jackshit.

I hope that's working for you with your graduate degree from the local trade school.

You're overreacting again to someone you disagree withROFL

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:19 PM
I know it's not a surprise but it's still frustrating that Clark Hunt is one of the cheapest owners in the NFL. Having David Glass own the Royals is bad enough, having to deal with another cheap ass in town just sucks.

JFC.

Are you not following along?

Clark Hunt has been saying all along that he intends to build the Chiefs through the draft.

Why would you assume he's be a big spender in free agency?

Especially after stating that he, Pioli and Haley were all on the same page?

Do people not know how to read in this forum?

PHOG
02-27-2009, 10:22 PM
:PPL: Did too!!....Did not!!!

FAX
02-27-2009, 10:24 PM
I would just like to say that, by now, I had hoped Mr. Rain Man would have stopped wearing socks with sandals.

I guess sometimes things just take time, peep.

FAX

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 10:25 PM
JFC.

Are you not following along?

Clark Hunt has been saying all along that he intends to build the Chiefs through the draft.

Why would you assume he's be a big spender in free agency?

Especially after stating that he, Pioli and Haley were all on the same page?

Do people not know how to read in this forum?

Ahh bullshit, that's nothing more than a cop out. Build through the draft my ass. This is not an either/or with the draft and free agency. Believe it or not, we can hit some home runs in the draft and still sign some talent in free agency.

I would love to hear one good reason as to why we always avoid the top free agents? Because you have to overspend? Big fucking deal, we have the 2nd most cap room in the NFL. Signing a few top end free agents would hardly even put a dent in our cap. It's not our money, so why should we complain about signing free agents? What is our money is the money being spent on parking, tickets, concessions, chiefs merchandise, etc. and what do we get in return? We sure as hell don't get the very best from the team. Clark Hunt gives a half ass effort in rebuilding the team.

Saying we are building through the draft is nothing more than an excuse to not spend money.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:26 PM
Ahh bullshit, that's nothing more than a cop out. Build through the draft my ass. This is not an either/or with the draft and free agency. Believe it or not, we can hit some home runs in the draft and still sign some talent in free agency.

I would love to hear one good reason as to why we always avoid the top free agents? Because you have to overspend? Big fucking deal, we have the 2nd most cap room in the NFL. Signing a few top end free agents would hardly even put a dent in our cap. It's not our money, so why should we complain about signing free agents? What is our money is the money being spent on parking, tickets, concessions, chiefs merchandise, etc. and what do we get in return? We sure as hell don't get the very best from the team. Clark Hunt gives a half ass effort in rebuilding the team.

Saying we are building through the draft is nothing more than an excuse to not spend money.

Thanks for playing

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 10:28 PM
Thanks for playing

Brilliant, way to just completely ignore an opinion other than your own.

By the way, you asked me if I read anything? I never stated I was surprised by what is happening. I said I knew this would happen but it is unfortunate that Clark is so cheap.

I sure as hell wasn't surprised when that article came out from arrowheadpride showing the Chiefs had spent the the 2nd least amount in the NFL on payroll since 2001 (I think it's 2001?).

I don't see how anybody can deny that this is a cheap franchise.

Tylerthigpen!1!
02-27-2009, 10:30 PM
JFC.

Are you not following along?

Clark Hunt has been saying all along that he intends to build the Chiefs through the draft.

right... thats why Clark said Scott brought in close to 20 FAs his first year at new england and he would expect the same here.. gratned they might not be the biggest names but you arent necessarily "building" through the draft. Maybe our definitions of building are different.

DeezNutz
02-27-2009, 10:31 PM
Brilliant, way to just completely ignore an opinion other than your own.

By the way, you asked me if I read anything? I never stated I was surprised by what is happening. I said I knew this would happen but it is unfortunate that Clark is so cheap.

I sure as hell wasn't surprised when that article came out from arrowheadpride showing the Chiefs had spent the the 2nd least amount in the NFL on payroll since 2001 (I think it's 2001?).

I don't see how anybody can deny that this is a cheap franchise.

The Chiefs have consistently used up their cap space throughout the Carl years. Last season was the exception, due to circumstances that we should all understand, not the norm.

After going out and landing arguably the top young GM prospect on the block, and spending some serious $$$ to accomplish this, it defies credulity for anyone to arrive at the conclusion that Clark Hunt is cheap.

Cheap is the absolute least of our problems.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:32 PM
Brilliant, way to just completely ignore an opinion other than your own.

This is exactly what Clark Hunt said he wanted before hiring Scott Pioli. Draft and develop a franchise QB and build through the draft.

Did you think he was lying?

Or did you expect Christmas Day today?

I swear, there are two camps of Chiefs fans: Those who understand what's happening and those who ignore absolutely everything and hope that things play out like THEY'D like to see them.

Regardless of the facts.

chiefscafan
02-27-2009, 10:33 PM
We are gonna sign people on the Monday tuesday part there is still great talent available.

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 10:33 PM
Damnit Scott!


I expected Haynsworth, Scott, Cassel, Canty and Fred Taylor by now!!

??? Joking, right?

tk13
02-27-2009, 10:36 PM
The Patriots were never players in the big time FA sweepstakes. The big moves they made like Moss and Welker were usually trades using draft picks.

The funny thing is we go through stuff like this every year, but the teams who win like the Pats, Colts, Steelers don't usually make a ton of waves on these first couple days of FA.

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 10:38 PM
This is exactly what Clark Hunt said he wanted before hiring Scott Pioli. Draft and develop a franchise QB and build through the draft.

Did you think he was lying?

Or did you expect Christmas Day today?

I swear, there are two camps of Chiefs fans: Those who understand what's happening and those who ignore absolutely everything and hope that things play out like THEY'D like to see them.

Regardless of the facts.

Again, I never said I was surprised. I am saying it is the wrong approach and I believe it is just an excuse for him to be cheap and avoid spending the money.

I understand everything Clark Hunt said. He wants to build through the draft and avoid signing free agents. Gotcha. I understand that.

Now I am saying it is ridiculous to completely avoid a method by which you can add a talent to a team that can help you win football games. Is a player drafted by your team any better than a player you sign in free agency? Perhaps he is cheaper, and that is where the problem is. Clark is cheap.

Of course I find it funny that they have no problem giving out $25 million guaranteed to an unproven rookie yet they are probably unwilling to give even half that to a free agent. Doesn't make sense to me.

ChiefsCountry
02-27-2009, 10:39 PM
I dont get the bitching about the Chiefs being cheap.
Posted via Mobile Device

Scorp
02-27-2009, 10:41 PM
Wow, another look at me Dane thread. Dude you are seriously f*cking annoying as hell. You are ranking right up there with Go Queefs.

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 10:44 PM
Now that some of the "names" have found a home, expect a whole lot of "who the **** are those guys?". And I mean a lot.

Exactly. They're gonna' sign/field marginal improvements over the current pile of shite while we continue to build through the draft.

I know it's not a surprise but it's still frustrating that Clark Hunt is one of the cheapest owners in the NFL. Having David Glass own the Royals is bad enough, having to deal with another cheap ass in town just sucks.

They're not being cheap. We're not signing big name guys to give us one or two years of SB-level play right now, because we're not going to the Super Bowl! Expect a play-off level team, or at least one ready to TRY and make a run, by 2011 at the earliest.

I would just like to say that, by now, I had hoped Mr. Rain Man would have stopped wearing socks with sandals.

I guess sometimes things just take time, peep.

FAX

Birkenstocks = Horrid.

Birkenstocks w/ socks = Abomination.

The Chiefs have consistently used up their cap space throughout the Carl years. Last season was the exception, due to circumstances that we should all understand, not the norm.

After going out and landing arguably the top young GM prospect on the block, and spending some serious $$$ to accomplish this, it defies credulity for anyone to arrive at the conclusion that Clark Hunt is cheap.

Cheap is the absolute least of our problems.

No shit. And keep in mind; if it weren't for Clark, we'd still be up to our knees in CarlHerm shit.
I'll give these guys the benefit of the doubt for now.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Wow, another look at me Dane thread. Dude you are seriously f*cking annoying as hell. You are ranking right up there with Go Chiefs.

Go fist yourself.

Who the FUCK are you, anyway?

DeezNutz
02-27-2009, 10:47 PM
Here are some numbers if you want to talk about the Chiefs cheapness. Below I've posted statistics from USA Today. Year, median salary, total payroll. Chiefs first, Pats second. http://content.usatoday.com/sports/football/nfl/salaries/teamresults.aspx?team=19

I rounded the total payroll up or down accordingly (5 or > up, 4 < down), so it's not exact, but over the last 9 years, the Pats have spent a total of approximately 732 mil. in payroll. The Chiefs have spent approximately 706 mil. This is a difference of approximately 2.8 mil. per year.

Chiefs:
2008 $ 695,000 $ 83,623,776
2007 $ 822,460 $108,482,459
2006 $ 710,000 $ 81,748,009
2005 $ 780,030 $ 83,390,185
2004 $ 788,700 $ 84,617,626
2003 $ 705,000 $ 77,394,073
2002 $ 552,520 $ 71,456,693
2001 $ 576,720 $ 59,800,143
2000 $ 505,650 $ 56,337,200

Pats:
2008 $ 931,200 $ 92,734,120
2007 $ 728,680 $ 117,963,182
2006 $ 650,580 $ 105,110,495
2005 $ 669,620 $ 94,409,059
2004 $ 660,300 $ 76,999,180
2003 $ 707,650 $ 82,128,250
2002 $ 540,300 $ 46,194,915
2001 $ 535,500 $ 65,793,825
2000 $ 476,800 $ 51,344,300

DeezNutz
02-27-2009, 10:50 PM
Yep. That Clark sure is a cheap mother****er. It's that 2.8 mil that's made all the difference.

Relax folks. There are far greater things fucked up with this franchise that we can focus our frustrations upon.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 10:51 PM
Again, I never said I was surprised. I am saying it is the wrong approach and I believe it is just an excuse for him to be cheap and avoid spending the money.

I understand everything Clark Hunt said. He wants to build through the draft and avoid signing free agents. Gotcha. I understand that.

Now I am saying it is ridiculous to completely avoid a method by which you can add a talent to a team that can help you win football games. Is a player drafted by your team any better than a player you sign in free agency? Perhaps he is cheaper, and that is where the problem is. Clark is cheap.

Of course I find it funny that they have no problem giving out $25 million guaranteed to an unproven rookie yet they are probably unwilling to give even half that to a free agent. Doesn't make sense to me.

I disagree with this take.

The Hunt family has not been historically cheap.

Since Peterson arrived, they have done things the wrong way.

They built their teams (after the Jim Schaaf/Jack Steadman talent ran out) through free-agency and tried to supplement that with draft.

Meanwhile, Dynasties were being built through the draft.

Clark realizes that the for the Chiefs to succeed, the "core" of the team needs to come from the draft. That doesn't mean every player and it doesn't mean that free-agency and trades don't have value.

It means that the Chiefs core should be built and grown through the draft.

And it certainly doesn't mean "cheap".

DeezNutz
02-27-2009, 10:54 PM
Similar market size, Green Bay.

Approximate total payroll over the last 9 years, using the same method: 688 mil.

Mecca
02-27-2009, 11:01 PM
I think people need to relax just a bit, top notch teams aren't built by throwing out 200 million dollars in FA.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-27-2009, 11:02 PM
The Patriots were never players in the big time FA sweepstakes. The big moves they made like Moss and Welker were usually trades using draft picks.

The funny thing is we go through stuff like this every year, but the teams who win like the Pats, Colts, Steelers don't usually make a ton of waves on these first couple days of FA.

Adalius Thomas, Roosevelt Colvin, and Rodney Harrison were all big money acquisitions.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 11:04 PM
I think people need to relax just a bit, top notch teams aren't built by throwing out 200 million dollars in FA.

2009 is the worst class of n00bs.

EVAR!!!1!!!!!!!!11111!!1

Mecca
02-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Did they really give Harrison all that much money, he was a late signing if I recall.

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 11:06 PM
Adalius Thomas, Roosevelt Colvin, and Rodney Harrison were all big money acquisitions.

Would you agree with me that at this point, we're not yet at the point where we augment with high-dollar FA?

It seems to me you do THAT when you're a player or three shy for a Super Bowl run, yes?

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 11:11 PM
I think people need to relax just a bit, top notch teams aren't built by throwing out 200 million dollars in FA.

I don't expect to throw out 200 million in FA. But I also don't want to be the cheapest team in the league either. Finding a medium between the two extremes would be nice.

I don't know, I just don't get it. Signing a guy like Jason Brown, Chris Canty, Derrick Dockery, Bart Scott, etc., just any one of those or plenty of other guys would fill a big need on this team and allow us to address other needs in the draft.

I guess some people are happy with a slow, methodical approach to building a team but i'm not one of them. I realize we are not going to turn this thing around in a day but at the pace we are going I don't see us being competitive for another 4 or 5 years. And with relying completely on the draft if even a single one of your high draft picks is a anywhere close to a bust it could set back the franchise another year or two.

I just don't understand the idea of putting all of our eggs in one basket, betting everything on one hand, you get my point.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 11:17 PM
I don't know, I just don't get it. Signing a guy like Jason Brown, Chris Canty, Derrick Dockery, Bart Scott, etc., just any one of those or plenty of other guys would fill a big need on this team and allow us to address other needs in the draft.

You're missing a very important aspect to free agency: Guys want to WIN.

Why would ANY of those guys want to spend their prime in KC? A team that hasn't won a playoff game in 16 years?

Money isn't the answer: All NFL teams have money.

So the question becomes this: Why would they want to come to KC? No QB, no offensive line, old RB, one WR, and nearly the worst defense in the league.

Why?

This team will need to be built through the draft and be close to winning before they'll attract the "big name" free agents.

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 11:17 PM
Would you agree with me that at this point, we're not yet at the point where we augment with high-dollar FA?

It seems to me you do THAT when you're a player or three shy for a Super Bowl run, yes?

Why not do it sooner?

If signing a guy like Jason Brown helps us protect the most important player on the team, why not do so regardless of the state of the rest of the team? Offensive line is one position group where IMO you do not mess around and you do not just throw guys in the fire because the health of your quarterback/team leader depends on that.

Hell, even before they were even considered anything close to Super Bowl contenders the Giants relied on free agency to add some talent to their team. Kareem McKenzie, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce, Fred Robbins, Shaun O'Hara, etc. Most of thsoe guys were big time free agent signings at the time. All are still starters on the team that won the super bowl just a year ago (well except for Burress of course but that has nothing to do with his talent).

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 11:18 PM
I don't expect to throw out 200 million in FA. But I also don't want to be the cheapest team in the league either. Finding a medium between the two extremes would be nice.

I don't know, I just don't get it. Signing a guy like Jason Brown, Chris Canty, Derrick Dockery, Bart Scott, etc., just any one of those or plenty of other guys would fill a big need on this team and allow us to address other needs in the draft.

I guess some people are happy with a slow, methodical approach to building a team but i'm not one of them. I realize we are not going to turn this thing around in a day but at the pace we are going I don't see us being competitive for another 4 or 5 years. And with relying completely on the draft if even a single one of your high draft picks is a anywhere close to a bust it could set back the franchise another year or two.

I just don't understand the idea of putting all of our eggs in one basket, betting everything on one hand, you get my point.

Think of it this way; it's a 5-year plan that will actually bear fruit! After 20 years of disappointment, apathy, and shite; I can do 5 easily! And hell, who knows? Maybe in year three these players get a fire lit under their ass, things go our way, and we end up there sooner than we thought!

:toast:

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 11:21 PM
Why not do it sooner?

If signing a guy like Jason Brown helps us protect the most important player on the team, why not do so regardless of the state of the rest of the team? Offensive line is one position group where IMO you do not mess around and you do not just throw guys in the fire because the health of your quarterback/team leader depends on that.

Hell, even before they were even considered anything close to Super Bowl contenders the Giants relied on free agency to add some talent to their team. Kareem McKenzie, Plaxico Burress, Antonio Pierce, Fred Robbins, Shaun O'Hara, etc. Most of thsoe guys were big time free agent signings at the time. All are still starters on the team that won the super bowl just a year ago (well except for Burress of course but that has nothing to do with his talent).

Valid points. I just can't say anything definite until FA is a done deal, the draft is a done deal, and the October deadline comes around.

There's too many questions unanswered right now. :shrug:

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 11:23 PM
You're missing a very important aspect to free agency: Guys want to WIN.

Why would ANY of those guys want to spend their prime in KC? A team that hasn't won a playoff game in 16 years?

Money isn't the answer: All NFL teams have money.

So the question becomes this: Why would they want to come to KC? No QB, no offensive line, old RB, one WR, and nearly the worst defense in the league.

Why?

This team will need to be built through the draft and be close to winning before they'll attract the "big name" free agents.

The Saints were perennial losers at the time that they got Drew Brees to come to town.

We have lost out on big time free agent offensive linemen Jacob Bell and Jason Brown to the Rams the last two years, a team that has won fewer games than us over the past two seasons.

4-12 Atlanta got Michael Turner to come to town.

This really is a bad example but i'm going to use it anyways. The Raiders got Gibril Wilson, Javon Walker, and DeAngelo Hall to come to town. Yes Hall was a trade but he had to agree to a contract extension before he came.

Point is, whether they were good signings or not, bad teams can attract free agents. The idea that nobody wants to come to a losing team simply isn't true. There are certain players that would just simply avoid us altogether but there are players that will sign with these franchises for the right money.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-27-2009, 11:23 PM
Would you agree with me that at this point, we're not yet at the point where we augment with high-dollar FA?

It seems to me you do THAT when you're a player or three shy for a Super Bowl run, yes?

We'd be idiotic to give money to any FA who will command more than 10 mil guaranteed. We should be signing guys who are 25-28, who have low mileage and who can fit a role at an adequate price.

Our stars should come from the last week of April, not the first week of March.

BradyFTW!
02-27-2009, 11:25 PM
The first day of FA is for the Dan Snyders of the league. You don't win SBs by signing guys to $100M contracts and guaranteeing $25M to DeAngelo hall. Pioli knows this, but apparently the OP does not.

kcchiefsus
02-27-2009, 11:26 PM
We'd be idiotic to give money to any FA who will command more than 10 mil guaranteed. We should be signing guys who are 25-28, who have low mileage and who can fit a role at an adequate price.

Our stars should come from the last week of April, not the first week of March.

What's the difference from giving $20 million guaranteed to a 25 year old Jason Brown and $25 million to an unproven 22 year old rookie who has never played at this level?

I know we have no choice but to give that money to a rookie but it still astounds me that we will give the money to a rookie but not to a proven veteran that has already shown he can perform at a high level.

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 11:29 PM
We'd be idiotic to give money to any FA who will command more than 10 mil guaranteed. We should be signing guys who are 25-28, who have low mileage and who can fit a role at an adequate price.

Our stars should come from the last week of April, not the first week of March.
Sounds reasonable. New Guy seems to be quite lamented over in Patriotville. Don't know if that's due to ability, TG-like sentimentality, or a combination of the two.

I know he's not a badass leader or player like Lewis, but perhaps a serviceable, low-cost, stop-gap to help ease the transition to the new defensive scheme?

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-27-2009, 11:30 PM
What's the difference from giving $20 million guaranteed to a 25 year old Jason Brown and $25 million to an unproven 22 year old rookie who has never played at this level?

I know we have no choice but to give that money to a rookie but it still astounds me that we will give the money to a rookie but not to a proven veteran that has already shown he can perform at a high level.

Jason Brown is a guard.

The only guys in the draft getting 20 million guaranteed are top 10 picks.

Would you trade Jason Brown for a top 10 pick, even though he's a proven player?

I fucking hope not.

DaneMcCloud
02-27-2009, 11:31 PM
The Saints were perennial losers at the time that they got Drew Brees to come to town.

We have lost out on big time free agent offensive linemen Jacob Bell and Jason Brown to the Rams the last two years, a team that has won fewer games than us over the past two seasons.

Got? He was a free agent. They also had Sean Payton. And he received a large contract.

4-12 Atlanta got Michael Turner to come to town.

He was a backup. He received a huge contract.


This really is a bad example but i'm going to use it anyways. The Raiders got Gibril Wilson, Javon Walker, and DeAngelo Hall to come to town. Yes Hall was a trade but he had to agree to a contract extension before he came.

Way overpaid, way overpaid and way overpaid. Hall and Walker didn't last past one season.

Horrible, horrible signings.

Point is, whether they were good signings or not, bad teams can attract free agents. The idea that nobody wants to come to a losing team simply isn't true. There are certain players that would just simply avoid us altogether but there are players that will sign with these franchises for the right money.

Two out of the three guys you mentioned sucked and were cut. But they got a payday.

San Diego couldn't afford Turner. The Falcons were in the NFC Championship game in 2004 and had a tough couple of years. But their defense was still solid.


The Chiefs have nothing. A completely depleted roster. No franchise QB. No franchise RB. A shitty O-line. And on and on and on.

Guys like Brown and Scott, etc. have a better chance to win before their careers are over in other cities.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-27-2009, 11:32 PM
Sounds reasonable. New Guy seems to be quite lamented over in Patriotville. Don't know if that's due to ability, TG-like sentimentality, or a combination of the two.

I know he's not a badass leader or player like Lewis, but perhaps a serviceable, low-cost, stop-gap to help ease the transition to the new defensive scheme?

Here are my problems (well chronicled)

1. I hate the idea of a move to a 3-4 with Dorsey
2. The Patriots aren't trading Vrabel for a late pick when they are in win-now mode unless they think he's washed up.
3. Why give a pick for a washed up player when you can just as easily sign an old leader in FA and give up nothing? We need every pick we can get.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 11:39 PM
The first day of FA is for the Dan Snyders of the league. You don't win SBs by signing guys to $100M contracts and guaranteeing $25M to DeAngelo hall. Pioli knows this, but apparently the OP does not.

Wow thanks for your insight assclown, please show me where I said I wanted to shell out insane $$ to marginal talent? If you're going to troll at least get your shit straight.

Darth CarlSatan
02-27-2009, 11:40 PM
Here are my problems (well chronicled)

1. I hate the idea of a move to a 3-4 with Dorsey
2. The Patriots aren't trading Vrabel for a late pick when they are in win-now mode unless they think he's washed up.
3. Why give a pick for a washed up player when you can just as easily sign an old leader in FA and give up nothing? We need every pick we can get.

Perhaps it wasn't a "pick" that was traded? We'll see.

MIAdragon
02-27-2009, 11:40 PM
Here are my problems (well chronicled)

1. I hate the idea of a move to a 3-4 with Dorsey
2. The Patriots aren't trading Vrabel for a late pick when they are in win-now mode unless they think he's washed up.
3. Why give a pick for a washed up player when you can just as easily sign an old leader in FA and give up nothing? We need every pick we can get.

All of this.

blueballs
02-27-2009, 11:49 PM
The Chiefs totally fucked up the free part

aturnis
02-28-2009, 12:31 AM
We'd be idiotic to give money to any FA who will command more than 10 mil guaranteed. We should be signing guys who are 25-28, who have low mileage and who can fit a role at an adequate price.

Our stars should come from the last week of April, not the first week of March.

Great post. Agree 100% on FA's and their true value vs. their ridiculous paydays.

While it's disappointing to see us not pursue a guy like Brown, it's the smart thing to do. He did play C last year, but he's a LG and we already have a LG. Not to mention he wanted $$$. As for the rest of the line. I'm sure Pioli and Haley will be able to find a few young, diamond in the rough guys in the late stages of free agency. Along with some later round guys who will be just as good for this team. Young talent at bargain basement prices.

aturnis
02-28-2009, 12:58 AM
1. I hate the idea of a move to a 3-4 with Dorsey

only b/c of Dorsey, I've always been a fan of the 3-4 though.

2. The Patriots aren't trading Vrabel for a late pick when they are in win-now mode unless they think he's washed up.

Not necessarily, Pioli may not be "the enemy" now, but he still has a good relationship with the Pats which has to do wonders for negotiations. It frees up cap space, which they have little of, and they say goodbye to an old guy, and hello to a young one. It might not be a "win now" move, it might be a move for the future.

3. Why give a pick for a washed up player when you can just as easily sign an old leader in FA and give up nothing? We need every pick we can get.

I'm sure with Pioli and Haley, it has as much to do with his play on the field as it does with his locker room attitude. It'll be easier to usher in the Patriots culture if there's a guy in the locker room to act as an example. He might also be able to usher in a REAL winning mentality rather than Herm's idea of one. Vrabel should be a good example, not only to the young guys, but to Waters and Tony, as to what it takes to win a SUPERBOWL.

yanno.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 01:07 AM
1. I hate the idea of a move to a 3-4 with Dorsey

only b/c of Dorsey, I've always been a fan of the 3-4 though.

2. The Patriots aren't trading Vrabel for a late pick when they are in win-now mode unless they think he's washed up.

Not necessarily, Pioli may not be "the enemy" now, but he still has a good relationship with the Pats which has to do wonders for negotiations. It frees up cap space, which they have little of, and they say goodbye to an old guy, and hello to a young one. It might not be a "win now" move, it might be a move for the future.

3. Why give a pick for a washed up player when you can just as easily sign an old leader in FA and give up nothing? We need every pick we can get.

I'm sure with Pioli and Haley, it has as much to do with his play on the field as it does with his locker room attitude. It'll be easier to usher in the Patriots culture if there's a guy in the locker room to act as an example. He might also be able to usher in a REAL winning mentality rather than Herm's idea of one. Vrabel should be a good example, not only to the young guys, but to Waters and Tony, as to what it takes to win a SUPERBOWL.

yanno.

Why do I have a hard time believing Gonzalez or Waters would remotely care what Vrabel has to say?

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 01:10 AM
Why do I have a hard time believing Gonzalez or Waters would remotely care what Vrabel has to say?

True, but how do we know either of those guys are going to be around anyway?

SDChiefs
02-28-2009, 01:17 AM
Honestly, I think most of you just bash eachother just to bash eachother. You could agree on something but you bash the person anyways. I don't care, its funny to watch, but seriously? Start talking football and not whos who and whats what? Btw. Phil's my best friend. He does what I say.

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 01:22 AM
Honestly, I think most of you just bash eachother just to bash eachother. You could agree on something but you bash the person anyways. I don't care, its funny to watch, but seriously? Start talking football and not whos who and whats what? Btw. Phil's my best friend. He does what I say.

Huh? You lost me.

aturnis
02-28-2009, 02:39 AM
Why do I have a hard time believing Gonzalez or Waters would remotely care what Vrabel has to say?

Not saying what he has to say. More so lead by example. Don't bitch. Do what you're told. Everyone has a job. They do their job. You don't do your job, your standing in the way of my Superbowl ring...buhbye. I'm not here to make friends. We play football, we don't cry about what's fair and what's not. Come on now, I'm here to fuck shit up. Let's go.

aturnis
02-28-2009, 02:41 AM
Honestly, I think most of you just bash eachother just to bash eachother. You could agree on something but you bash the person anyways. I don't care, its funny to watch, but seriously? Start talking football and not whos who and whats what? Btw. Phil's my best friend. He does what I say.

Phil Kloster? or Phil MaCrackin?

KcMizzou
02-28-2009, 02:50 AM
Honestly, I think most of you just bash eachother just to bash eachother. You could agree on something but you bash the person anyways. I don't care, its funny to watch, but seriously? Start talking football and not whos who and whats what? Btw. Phil's my best friend. He does what I say.I alway knew Kloster was a puppet. First he was Athan's, now he belongs to "random dude #3".

beach tribe
02-28-2009, 03:17 AM
IMO you have to build a base through the draft before you go after the big names in FA, or else you don't know which FA you really need.

beach tribe
02-28-2009, 03:19 AM
Not saying what he has to say. More so lead by example. Don't bitch. Do what you're told. Everyone has a job. They do their job. You don't do your job, your standing in the way of my Superbowl ring...buhbye. I'm not here to make friends. We play football, we don't cry about what's fair and what's not. Come on now, I'm here to **** shit up. Let's go.

Bingo. You always seem to have sensible takes, and don't even have to call someone a dumbfuck to express them.

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 03:26 AM
IMO you have to build a base through the draft before you go after the big names in FA, or else you don't know which FA you really need.

True. And there's a LOT of team yet to be built. With the exception of Albert, Dorsey( assuming he makes the transition to 3-4), Charles( assuming we go full-time 2-back set ), and our 3 Corners; we got a whole fuckin' roster to fill.

I'm dead serious man; you look at the shit on defense that Carl and Herm drafted prior to last year? There's nothing there.

If Waters, LJ, and Gonzo split; that's three more.

Do we have a Quarterback? FUCK NO.

Lot of spots. Lot of work to do. And I'm okay with it.

old_geezer
02-28-2009, 06:21 AM
I like the trade. What does this defense need as much as anything right now ?.........How about a leader? Bang - now we've got one; and he's familiar with the way Pioli work's. Good move IMO.

orange
02-28-2009, 06:51 AM
Good morning. The Broncos just signed another player. Details to follow.

Ralphy Boy
02-28-2009, 07:32 AM
I'm not going to edit this, but I take it back.

Don't shut up.

I'll just add my objection to yours.

Which is to say, I'm sick of those people who have rushed to judge this new organization when it's drastically incomplete.

It's so unbelieveably early be frustrated by any lack of results.

Not going to take the time to read the entire thread, but I assume that a lot of people agreed with you on this.

Any idiot GM or owner can throw a ton of money around on the first day of FA but as every football person knows a good front office makes their money in the days that follow. Idiots rush out to market and overpay just to make their idiot fans happy.

Given that Clark liked Herms plan of building the team thru the draft, does it really surprise anyone that we haven't already spent every penny we have?

keg in kc
02-28-2009, 07:47 AM
Apparently nobody listened to the interviews where clark said we probably weren't going to be active early in free agency.

htismaqe
02-28-2009, 10:17 AM
Any idiot GM or owner can throw a ton of money around on the first day of FA

Derrick Alexander and Shawn Barber were both signed within hours of free agency starting. Both of them were high profile FA's that got big money.

It doesn't always work that way we think it will.

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 10:34 AM
I'm really not sure what some of you expect of your new GM. Did you think he was just going to chuck all he's learned into the hopper? The Patriots lost arguably the league's best long snapper and their #2 outside receiver. They will likely lose more players before it's all over. The two players they did sign weren't technically "free agents" in the sense of players who had to wait for friday, since both had been cut from their previous teams.

Of the Patriots 'tree', only the Broncos have gone nuts in free agency in terms of multiple signings, and they aren't exactly breaking the bank for players like Gaffney, Paxton, Davis and company.

Relax, enjoy the weekend and have fun laughing at teams like the Redskins as they keep throwing good money after bad.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 12:25 PM
Just shut up.

I'm not going to edit this, but I take it back.

Don't shut up.

I'll just add my objection to yours.

Which is to say, I'm sick of those people who have rushed to judge this new organization when it's drastically incomplete.

It's so unbelieveably early be frustrated by any lack of results.

No, but I will take it back.

Can I take back my take back and just stick with the shut up?

:D

Gravedigger
02-28-2009, 12:26 PM
Yeah and Matt Freakin Cassel.

MIAdragon
02-28-2009, 12:44 PM
Can I take back my take back and just stick with the shut up?

:D

LMAO no!

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 12:48 PM
Needed a starter, signed a starter. QB still on the way, and GTFO Thigpen.

Micjones
02-28-2009, 12:49 PM
Crazy ass fans have been running around bitching.
Pioli just pulled off THE BEST FA move of any GM in the league.

Sit down and shut up.
All of this panic, this early, is retarded.