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JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 12:06 PM
any ideas?

blueballs
02-28-2009, 12:08 PM
trade it and Cassel for the #1

Hog Farmer
02-28-2009, 12:09 PM
#3 belongs to the Patriots ?????????

nychief
02-28-2009, 12:10 PM
crabtree or curry.

Red Beans
02-28-2009, 12:11 PM
Curry. I'm not talking Indian food. Actually I've begun to wonder if trading for Vrable wasn't a sign that were going to draft Curry. From what I understand the guy is a great mentor...

Shag
02-28-2009, 12:13 PM
Assuming we still have the #3, I think Pioli will shop the pick heavily. But if he can't move it, I think either Curry or one of the DEs...

Smed1065
02-28-2009, 12:13 PM
any ideas?

Kill ourself?

Or get ready for all the BS post by the sweet 16 for months because they are smarter than the front office and WILL MAKE SURE WE KNOW THAT? :rolleyes:

John_Wayne
02-28-2009, 12:13 PM
any ideas?


...... trade down, acquire picks and draft a.......
RT

Spott
02-28-2009, 12:14 PM
Trade the pick for Lawrence Maroney?

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 12:15 PM
Unless someone is willing to trade with us (unlikely), Curry has become the best option.

Go Mizzou & Chiefs
02-28-2009, 12:16 PM
trade down for 2 1st rounders and get maclin and a defensive end

arrowheadnation
02-28-2009, 12:16 PM
The Madden 09 in me says CRABTREE!!! because Bowe, Gonzalez, and Crabtree would be incredibly fun to watch.

But the conservative side of me says to go with an offensive lineman, DT, or LB.

Brock
02-28-2009, 12:23 PM
I guess you can now draft Curry, value judgements aside.

blueballs
02-28-2009, 12:27 PM
You DOn't go
full Saban

Woodrow Call
02-28-2009, 12:28 PM
They have a major boner for Curry IMO.

PastorMikH
02-28-2009, 12:35 PM
#3 belongs to the Patriots ?????????



I don't think anyone knows yet. We'll have to wait and see if we still have a #3.

ChiefsCountry
02-28-2009, 12:39 PM
trade down for 2 1st rounders and get maclin and a defensive end

You get mentioned trading down for 2 first rounders but Philadelphia is the only team with 2 first rounders and they are not trading up.

Rigodan
02-28-2009, 12:56 PM
Do we look at Raji? A good nose tackle is better than a LB with limited pass rushing abilities for the 3-4 isn't it?

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 12:59 PM
Do we look at Raji? A good nose tackle is better than a LB with limited pass rushing abilities for the 3-4 isn't it?

It becomes a no-brainer that Raji is on the top of the board if we're moving to a 3-4, assuming he does well in his evaluations.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:01 PM
This thread is a failure for not having a poll.

I'd say the answer is Curry, an edge rusher like Everette Brown, or Raji.

We need an edge rusher for the 3-4 so it may very well be Brown.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:01 PM
It becomes a no-brainer that Raji is on the top of the board if we're moving to a 3-4, assuming he does well in his evaluations.

How is it a no-brainer? We already have Tank and I just don't know if a 3-4 nose that has the main goal of taking up blockers is worthy of a #3 overall pick.

SenselessChiefsFan
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
any ideas?

Trade down.

Chiefs had a suitor last year, but didn't like the offer. I think the Chiefs will pick up a first, a second and next year's first for the #3 overall pick.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 01:04 PM
This thread is a failure for not having a poll.

I'd say the answer is Curry, an edge rusher like Everette Brown, or Raji.

We need an edge rusher for the 3-4 so it may very well be Brown.

sorry not good at polls start one and we'll ask to merge threads

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:04 PM
Trade down.

Chiefs had a suitor last year, but didn't like the offer. I think the Chiefs will pick up a first, a second and next year's first for the #3 overall pick.

Trade down is the obvious choice if someone is there, but right now we have to work with the assumption that we won't have that option.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:06 PM
sorry not good at polls start one and we'll ask to merge threads

i was just messing with you, but it would have been interesting to see what everyone thought.

patteeu
02-28-2009, 01:07 PM
Curry may not even be there. I was listening to sports talk out of St. Louis the other day and I was surprised to hear a guy say that he thought the Rams would consider taking him if Detroit passes even though they need a re-Pace-ment LT. I guess his theory was that there are several tackles available for the 2nd year in a row and that they might be able to get one later.

Priest4Prez
02-28-2009, 01:10 PM
Assuming we still have the #3, I think Pioli will shop the pick heavily. But if he can't move it, I think either Curry or one of the DEs...

NFLN reporting that compensation for both Bruschi and Cassel is the 2nd round pick :P

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 01:19 PM
How is it a no-brainer? We already have Tank and I just don't know if a 3-4 nose that has the main goal of taking up blockers is worthy of a #3 overall pick.

In a 3-4, the nose tackle is the most important position on the field. You don't just settle for a guy to play nose tackle--you have to be sure he is the right guy.

I don't know if Tank is the guy to be a 3-4 nose tackle. Most scouts believe Raji can be.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 01:21 PM
i was just messing with you, but it would have been interesting to see what everyone thought.

i agree sorry THREAD FAIL

bdeg
02-28-2009, 01:21 PM
Everette Brown. I dare anyone to tell me why he isn't worth the pick.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 01:23 PM
I'm gonna say Curry/Raji. Period. Nothing like 2 DT's with 2 top 5 picks on a defense converting to a 3-4. I could so easily see it happen. If we just throw Glenn Dorsey away, I will have a mental breakdown.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:25 PM
In a 3-4, the nose tackle is the most important position on the field. You don't just settle for a guy to play nose tackle--you have to be sure he is the right guy.

I don't know if Tank is the guy to be a 3-4 nose tackle. Most scouts believe Raji can be.

Actually I disagree. 3-4 doesn't work if you don't have that edge rusher on the outside. That's why teams spend early 1st round picks on those guys and usually wait on finding a nose or, more often, there are few journeymen NTs that can be picked up.

You can have the best NT in the world, but if you don't have that freak edge rusher the 3-4 simply will not work.

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 01:40 PM
Actually I disagree. 3-4 doesn't work if you don't have that edge rusher on the outside. That's why teams spend early 1st round picks on those guys and usually wait on finding a nose or, more often, there are few journeymen NTs that can be picked up.

You can have the best NT in the world, but if you don't have that freak edge rusher the 3-4 simply will not work.

The nose tackle is widely regarded as the most important position in a 3-4. Many would also argue that the 3-4 edge rusher is largely a product of the system--while they are difference makers, they aren't overly difficult to find. In fact, the reason teams run a 3-4 is because they believe finding a 3-4 rush backer is a lot easier than finding a 4-3 DE--there are so many "tweeners" in college that are too small to be an every-down DE but too big to be a LB.

On the flip side, it takes a very distinct breed of DT to be an effective 3-4 nose tackle. You have to be able to play 2-gap. Because they are so hard to find it becomes so much more important to grab one when you can find him.

I can't think of a single top-tier 3-4 defense that doesn't have an outstanding nose tackle. He doesn't get the sexy stats, but he's by far the most important defensive player on the field. The nose tackle is the lone guy in the interior, so if he doesn't do his job, then a million gaps open up and your run defense will get chewed up. If he doesn't do his job then the interior offensive linemen will swarm the linebackers as if it was a scene from Braveheart.

mrdad45
02-28-2009, 01:43 PM
While I think Curry is the pick...Welker in NE has me thinking of a possible trade down to pick up Maclin for that role. If J-mac could only stay healthy.

Buck
02-28-2009, 01:45 PM
If you stay at 3 you should go w/ Curry.

If you feel like trading down5 or 6 spots, you could get someone like Knowshown Moreno...

KCtotheSB
02-28-2009, 01:47 PM
Gotta be Curry. Outside possibility of Crabtree.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 01:48 PM
The nose tackle is widely regarded as the most important position in a 3-4. Many would also argue that the 3-4 edge rusher is largely a product of the system--while they are difference makers, they aren't overly difficult to find. In fact, the reason teams run a 3-4 is because they believe finding a 3-4 rush backer is a lot easier than finding a 4-3 DE--there are so many "tweeners" in college that are too small to be an every-down DE but too big to be a LB.

On the flip side, it takes a very distinct breed of DT to be an effective 3-4 nose tackle. You have to be able to play 2-gap. Because they are so hard to find it becomes so much more important to grab one when you can find him.

I can't think of a single top-tier 3-4 defense that doesn't have an outstanding nose tackle. He doesn't get the sexy stats, but he's by far the most important defensive player on the field. The nose tackle is the lone guy in the interior, so if he doesn't do his job, then a million gaps open up and your run defense will get chewed up. If he doesn't do his job then the interior offensive linemen will swarm the linebackers as if it was a scene from Braveheart.

Dallas went into last season with an undersized Jay Ratliff as their Nose, and he ended up having a good season.

Listen, anyone that knows the 3-4 will say that the NT and 3-4 edge rusher are both important, so it's stupid to sit here and argue about which one is more important.

Personally, I feel better going into next season with Tank Tyler as our NT rather than having someone like Tamba Hali at OLB. You have to evaluate your roster, and right now I think we need that dominant edge rusher in the mold of a Merriman, Ware, or Harrison, rather than a NT that will take up space.

ntexaschiefsfan
02-28-2009, 01:51 PM
I would like Brian Orakpo please.

buddha
02-28-2009, 01:55 PM
Raji has a bit too much Fridge Perry going on. Dude is chubby and isn't likely change anytime soon.

Curry is a thoroughbred. You can't have too many good linebackers and KC has had NONE for way too long. If Curry is gone, trade down.

Jerm
02-28-2009, 01:55 PM
Just got this feeling Haley is going to want Crabtree and push Pioli and co. hard on taking him.

Buck
02-28-2009, 01:56 PM
You could also trade down about 12-15 picks and try to get Aaron Maybin

keg in kc
02-28-2009, 02:25 PM
I don't think it's feasible, but I'd do everything possible to trade down.

If we can't do that, then I have no idea. One assumption with the Cassel trade is that they don't see Stafford or Sanchez as meriting that pick, in which case, I'm not sure there's anybody of high enough calibre in this draft for me to want to stay put. I think the entire top-10 of this draft may be 10-15 spots higher this year than any other because of the weakness of the class, a couple of the tackles aside (and I don't think we're going that direction), so we're probably reaching whoever we take.

Tribal Warfare
02-28-2009, 02:28 PM
Everette Brown. I dare anyone to tell me why he isn't worth the pick.

I believe this a likely option now too

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 02:29 PM
My dream is trading down, picking up a 2nd and 3rd rounder, and drafting Heyward-Bey or BJ Raji.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 02:32 PM
My dream is trading down, picking up a 2nd and 3rd rounder, and drafting Heyward-Bey or BJ Raji.

We better pick up more than that if we are dropping down far enough to take one of those players. I'd rather take Curry at three.

Jerm
02-28-2009, 02:33 PM
Kinda hoping Oakland or someone near falls in love with Crabtree, we trade down still inside the top 10 while regaining a 2nd round pick, and draft Maclin.

Yeah....probably not happening lol.

keg in kc
02-28-2009, 02:36 PM
Everette Brown would probably be the best pick, in my book, but (as is the case with everyone it appears) #3 is awfully high for him. But I'd probably like that pick better than any other I can think of if we stay put.

unothadeal
02-28-2009, 02:45 PM
I like Curry. Vrabel, Curry and DJ and someone else sounds like a good LB core.

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 02:50 PM
If you're going to draft Curry, why didn't you just give his money to Bart Scott?

Curry makes zero sense.

unothadeal
02-28-2009, 02:52 PM
Why do people care about Clark's money?

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 02:53 PM
Why do people care about Clark's money?

It's not about caring about the money.

It's about the draft pick.

Why spend 50m and a 3rd overall pick on a linebacker when you can spend the 50m and keep the 3rd overall pick?

You gonna tell me Curry is that much better than Bart Scott?

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 02:53 PM
If you're going to draft Curry, why didn't you just give his money to Bart Scott?

Curry makes zero sense.

Curry is a lot younger and has the potential to be much much better than Bart fucking Scott.

Rausch
02-28-2009, 02:54 PM
Why do people care about Clark's money?

I'm not sure.

I heard a rumor that the federal government was going to start asking him for loans instead of the chinese...

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
Curry is a lot young and has the potential to be much much better than Bart fucking Scott.

I disagree, especially if he's going to be an inside linebacker.

Rex Ryan thought Scott was worth 50m. You're not giving him nearly enough credit.

unothadeal
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
It's not about caring about the money.

It's about the draft pick.

Why spend 50m and a 3rd overall pick on a linebacker when you can spend the 50m and keep the 3rd overall pick?

You gonna tell me Curry is that much better than Bart Scott?

No, he will.

Curry is a lot young and has the potential to be much much better than Bart ****ing Scott.

StcChief
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
trade down is lookin better. Get greasy Al to trade up.

Rausch
02-28-2009, 02:55 PM
My dream is trading down, picking up a 2nd and 3rd rounder...

Ditto.

Now I'm going to take a shower and scrub myself like a rape victim to get this moment off of me...

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 02:56 PM
Bart Scott is nothing special. He's just another overrated linebacker that was mostly product of his system.

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 03:02 PM
Bart Scott is nothing special. He's just another overrated linebacker that was mostly product of his system.

Yeah well, at least he can rush the fucking passer.

Can Aaron Curry?

Now who's "nothing special?"

This obsession with a linebacker at #3 is the worst True Fan development since "Tyler Thigpen is our QBOTF."

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 03:03 PM
Dallas went into last season with an undersized Jay Ratliff as their Nose, and he ended up having a good season.

Listen, anyone that knows the 3-4 will say that the NT and 3-4 edge rusher are both important, so it's stupid to sit here and argue about which one is more important.

Personally, I feel better going into next season with Tank Tyler as our NT rather than having someone like Tamba Hali at OLB. You have to evaluate your roster, and right now I think we need that dominant edge rusher in the mold of a Merriman, Ware, or Harrison, rather than a NT that will take up space.

But the point is that edge rushers are a dime a dozen. There are a million tweeners that go into the draft because they just don't fit the physical profile of a LB or a DE. The reason teams run a 3-4 look is because edge rushers are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to find than a 4-3 DE. They aren't that hard to find. Hell, the Pats have had a dominant defense for years with Vrabel--while Vrabel is a good LB, I think most people would argue he was a product of the system. Rush Ends aren't nearly as important as you think. They succeed largely because the defensive line opens up a ton of lanes for them to go through. There are only a handful of DTs who will enter the draft as prospects for a 3-4. A good 3-4 defense can make an average rush end look very good. A 3-4 defense, however, canNOT survive without a good nose tackle. They are the most unappreciated position in football. They are the only line of defense against the entire interior offensive line. He has to control TWO gaps. It is one of the hardest physical jobs in football. And for the Chiefs to trade for Vrabel, that seems to be a pretty good indication that rush end is very low on their priority list right now.

The Chiefs cannot just settle for a nose tackle. They have to get a good one and if they think Raji is a good one, they shouldn't hesitate to take him. Or else our LBs are going to have guards on them all game long and there will be massive running lanes to run through. The nose tackle position in a 3-4 is almost as important to the defense as a quarterback is to the offense.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 03:03 PM
Yeah well, at least he can rush the fucking passer.

Can Aaron Curry?

Now who's "nothing special?"

This obsession with a linebacker at #3 is the worst True Fan development since "Tyler Thigpen is our QBOTF."

Stop seeing shit in black and white. Anyone we take at #3 is now going to be a reach. I'd rather reach on Curry than an even lesser prospect.

Count Alex's Losses
02-28-2009, 03:04 PM
Stop seeing shit in black and white. Anyone we take at #3 is now going to be a reach. I'd rather reach on Curry than an even lesser prospect.

Hence why trading down looks so good right now.

I'd rather have Raji or Heyward-Bey in the early 20s, plus extra picks, than Curry at #3.

rockymtnchief
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
You could also trade down about 12-15 picks and try to get Aaron Maybin
Personally, I still like Simtin better. More experience and faster.

htismaqe
02-28-2009, 03:19 PM
Curry is a lot younger and has the potential to be much much better than Bart ****ing Scott.

There's alot of better places to get ILB than #3 overall. That's the place to take a pass rusher and passer, not an ILB.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 03:19 PM
There's alot of better places to get ILB than #3 overall. That's the place to take a pass rusher and passer, not an ILB.

I'm not disputing that. I just don't see any better options at this point. Trading down is pretty unrealistic.

RINGLEADER
02-28-2009, 03:23 PM
Assuming we still have the #3, I think Pioli will shop the pick heavily. But if he can't move it, I think either Curry or one of the DEs...

Yep. The only way to get real value is for number one picks in next year's draft (which I'd be for as long as we're not dropping down too far and can still get a solid player that can step in immediately and contribute for a decade) or going with the Eagles who have the first and second round picks this year to make it worth our while.

KChiefs1
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
It almost a lock now that it's Curry or a tradedown.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 03:30 PM
But the point is that edge rushers are a dime a dozen. There are a million tweeners that go into the draft because they just don't fit the physical profile of a LB or a DE. The reason teams run a 3-4 look is because edge rushers are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to find than a 4-3 DE. They aren't that hard to find. Hell, the Pats have had a dominant defense for years with Vrabel--while Vrabel is a good LB, I think most people would argue he was a product of the system. Rush Ends aren't nearly as important as you think. They succeed largely because the defensive line opens up a ton of lanes for them to go through. There are only a handful of DTs who will enter the draft as prospects for a 3-4. A good 3-4 defense can make an average rush end look very good. A 3-4 defense, however, canNOT survive without a good nose tackle. They are the most unappreciated position in football. They are the only line of defense against the entire interior offensive line. He has to control TWO gaps. It is one of the hardest physical jobs in football. And for the Chiefs to trade for Vrabel, that seems to be a pretty good indication that rush end is very low on their priority list right now.

The Chiefs cannot just settle for a nose tackle. They have to get a good one and if they think Raji is a good one, they shouldn't hesitate to take him. Or else our LBs are going to have guards on them all game long and there will be massive running lanes to run through. The nose tackle position in a 3-4 is almost as important to the defense as a quarterback is to the offense.

Huh? No, edge rushers are definitely not a dime a dozen. That's why teams spend high 1st round picks on them, and on average they're drafted higher than 3-4 NTs. Some teams like Pittsburgh look for tweeners in the mid-rounds like play an edge rushing role, but other teams spend premium picks to acquire guys like Ware, Merriman, Wimbley, McGinest.

The highest 3-4 NTs that have been drafted that I can think of are Hgata a few years back and Casey Hampton. I believe both were drafted around 15.

Again, they're both hugely important pieces for a 3-4 defense, but I am more comfortable with Tyler or Dorsey at NT than I am with Hali or Derrick Johnson at OLB in a 3-4.

htismaqe
02-28-2009, 03:41 PM
I'm not disputing that. I just don't see any better options at this point. Trading down is pretty unrealistic.

I think there's a better possibility it will be someone we don't expect.

I can't see Pioli taking an ILB or OT at #3, given our situation.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 03:51 PM
But the point is that edge rushers are a dime a dozen. There are a million tweeners that go into the draft because they just don't fit the physical profile of a LB or a DE. The reason teams run a 3-4 look is because edge rushers are SIGNIFICANTLY easier to find than a 4-3 DE. They aren't that hard to find. Hell, the Pats have had a dominant defense for years with Vrabel--while Vrabel is a good LB, I think most people would argue he was a product of the system. Rush Ends aren't nearly as important as you think. They succeed largely because the defensive line opens up a ton of lanes for them to go through. There are only a handful of DTs who will enter the draft as prospects for a 3-4. A good 3-4 defense can make an average rush end look very good. A 3-4 defense, however, canNOT survive without a good nose tackle. They are the most unappreciated position in football. They are the only line of defense against the entire interior offensive line. He has to control TWO gaps. It is one of the hardest physical jobs in football. And for the Chiefs to trade for Vrabel, that seems to be a pretty good indication that rush end is very low on their priority list right now.


That's why the pats signed Adalius Thomas to that huge contract a few years ago?

bdeg
02-28-2009, 03:52 PM
Personally, I still like Simtin better. More experience and faster.
Maybin is so much faster. Sintim has no burst.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 03:52 PM
That's why the pats signed Adalius Thomas to that huge contract a few years ago?

and Roosevelt Colvin a couple years before that.

ChiefRon
02-28-2009, 03:56 PM
My bet is on Crabtree or Curry.

I'm sure we'll try to trade down, but unless we do it for less than true value, I doubt we'll be able to.

Keep dreaming tho.

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 03:58 PM
Huh? No, edge rushers are definitely not a dime a dozen. That's why teams spend high 1st round picks on them, and on average they're drafted higher than 3-4 NTs. Some teams like Pittsburgh look for tweeners in the mid-rounds like play an edge rushing role, but other teams spend premium picks to acquire guys like Ware, Merriman, Wimbley, McGinest.

The highest 3-4 NTs that have been drafted that I can think of are Hgata a few years back and Casey Hampton. I believe both were drafted around 15.

Again, they're both hugely important pieces for a 3-4 defense, but I am more comfortable with Tyler or Dorsey at NT than I am with Hali or Derrick Johnson at OLB in a 3-4.

The reason that teams don't aggressively pursue nose tackles in the draft is that they will NEVER get rid of a productive nose tackle. That's why you rarely ever see nose tackles move from team to team. Wilfork, Hampton, Kelly Gregg, Jamal Williams. Even before Merriman's injury, most in San Diego believed that the Chargers weren't planning to keep Merriman around because they couldn't afford him, but they did everything they could to protect Williams. Last offseason, the Browns and Jets both very aggressively sought trades for Shaun Rodgers and Kris Jenkins because they knew that solidifying the nose tackle was of critical importance. Notice how the Ravens did everything to keep Gregg in Baltimore for so many years, but are reluctant to give Suggs an extension?

When you look at the consistently best defenses in the league, they have a rock at nose tackle. And you will notice that those nose tackles NEVER leave to go to another team, whereas teams are increasingly iffy about keeping their solid rush ends around. The rush end is important, but a team can function with an average one. A team absolutely cannot function without a solid nose tackle. Now, there's an argument that nose tackles are more widely available in later rounds of the draft simply because there are so few teams actively seeking a nose tackle, but Raji is an exception because many teams believe he could function well in both a 3-4 or a 4-3.

I can guarantee you that most fans that have watched a 3-4 defense for years will tell you that their nose tackle is a lot more critical to their success than the rush end is.

chiefzilla1501
02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
That's why the pats signed Adalius Thomas to that huge contract a few years ago?

...when they already had a stud at nose tackle in Wilfork.

Fat Elvis
02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Yeah well, at least he can rush the ****ing passer.

Can Aaron Curry?

Now who's "nothing special?"

This obsession with a linebacker at #3 is the worst True Fan development since "Tyler Thigpen is our QBOTF."

He really wasn't asked to rush the passer in the WF scheme, but when he did rush the QB, things like this happened:

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/5zc2swzWR_4&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/5zc2swzWR_4&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

At about 1:45 into the video, you can see what happens....
You can do that when you have 4.56 speed and hit like a freight train.

Dipshit.

mlyonsd
02-28-2009, 04:02 PM
He really wasn't asked to rush the passer in the WF scheme, but when he did rush the QB, things like this happened:

<EMBED src=http://www.youtube.com/v/5zc2swzWR_4&hl=en&fs=1 width=425 height=344 type=application/x-shockwave-flash allowfullscreen="true" allowscriptaccess="always"></EMBED>

At about 1:45 into the video, you can see what happens....
You can do that when you have 4.56 speed and hit like a freight train.

Dipshit.

I think we take Curry at #3 and I like it.

Chiefshrink
02-28-2009, 04:05 PM
Actually I disagree. 3-4 doesn't work if you don't have that edge rusher on the outside. That's why teams spend early 1st round picks on those guys and usually wait on finding a nose or, more often, there are few journeymen NTs that can be picked up.

You can have the best NT in the world, but if you don't have that freak edge rusher the 3-4 simply will not work.

You have to have both. A NT that is a very quick and strong 'tree stump' who requires 2-3 guys to stop him and an above average edge rusher who can make it around the end quicker than the those offensive lineman can pick him up. But the NT is the key to take up blockers to allow the DE/LBs to make plays

Chiefshrink
02-28-2009, 04:08 PM
The reason that teams don't aggressively pursue nose tackles in the draft is that they will NEVER get rid of a productive nose tackle. That's why you rarely ever see nose tackles move from team to team. Wilfork, Hampton, Kelly Gregg, Jamal Williams. Even before Merriman's injury, most in San Diego believed that the Chargers weren't planning to keep Merriman around because they couldn't afford him, but they did everything they could to protect Williams. Last offseason, the Browns and Jets both very aggressively sought trades for Shaun Rodgers and Kris Jenkins because they knew that solidifying the nose tackle was of critical importance. Notice how the Ravens did everything to keep Gregg in Baltimore for so many years, but are reluctant to give Suggs an extension?

When you look at the consistently best defenses in the league, they have a rock at nose tackle. And you will notice that those nose tackles NEVER leave to go to another team, whereas teams are increasingly iffy about keeping their solid rush ends around. The rush end is important, but a team can function with an average one. A team absolutely cannot function without a solid nose tackle. Now, there's an argument that nose tackles are more widely available in later rounds of the draft simply because there are so few teams actively seeking a nose tackle, but Raji is an exception because many teams believe he could function well in both a 3-4 or a 4-3.

I can guarantee you that most fans that have watched a 3-4 defense for years will tell you that their nose tackle is a lot more critical to their success than the rush end is.

Precisely!!!!

CupidStunt
02-28-2009, 04:09 PM
Why people think Cassel = Curry is beyond me. The only thing it ACTUALLY means is that they won't take a QB.

Like it or not, they COULD take a LT if they feel he's a can't-miss prospect and/or Albert will be elite at RT/guard, or more likely they could take Raji to play the nose or an edge rusher. Curry's the favorite, but not a lock.

Chiefshrink
02-28-2009, 04:11 PM
It almost a lock now that it's Curry or a tradedown.

Damn right!!! And we will get our 2nd rd pick back if we trade down and I will have all of Hamas's casino cash!!!ROFLROFLROFLROFL

Rausch
02-28-2009, 04:11 PM
I can guarantee you that most fans that have watched a 3-4 defense for years will tell you that their nose tackle is a lot more critical to their success than the rush end is.

And you'll find that rush end making the probowl, cut/traded, and easily replaced. The Steelers have done it for well over a decade. They have a new OLB netting 10+ sacks every other year.

The 3-4 rush end also tends to move the the 4-3 and be less productive than the average high school drop-out who starts a band.

If we're moving to the 3-4 we should land that tweener/rush end in the 2nd or 3rd. And this year it looks like there a few good 3-4 DT's out there after the first as well.

It's hard to predict what we'll do with all the changes but we'll likely see what we did with Herm's first year: put what we've got into the offensive/defensive schemes and see what we have before a complete overhaul...

Rausch
02-28-2009, 04:12 PM
I can't see Pioli taking an ILB or OT at #3, given our situation.

I don't see KC having the no 3 pick when it comes around...

Chiefshrink
02-28-2009, 04:12 PM
Stop seeing shit in black and white. Anyone we take at #3 is now going to be a reach. I'd rather reach on Curry than an even lesser prospect.

CHA-CHING!!!!!!:clap::clap::clap: And IF we trade down we make'em PAAAAAY!!:D

Chiefshrink
02-28-2009, 04:16 PM
I don't see KC having the no 3 pick when it comes around...

You don't see a stellar LT being switched to the right side now that we have acquired Cassel? Cassel will be behind the exact same line as Thigpen if we DON'T improve our line. Pioli will have none of that IMO. It will be Curry, LT or trade down that happens. Count on it!!!!:thumb:

Lovin Pioli, BABeeeeeeeeeeeee!!!:clap::clap::clap::clap:

melbar
02-28-2009, 04:46 PM
It's not about caring about the money.

It's about the draft pick.

Why spend 50m and a 3rd overall pick on a linebacker when you can spend the 50m and keep the 3rd overall pick?

You gonna tell me Curry is that much better than Bart Scott?

Maybe Bart wasnt an option. He went to the Jets to be with his D coordinator. The kid is talented, young and considered by most to be the most talented player in the draft. Why not? There are lots of great QB's who dont rush the passer, but if you watched the combine interview he just needs and wants the opportunity. "I have the speed and the power i just need someone to coach me." He makes tackles and he makes plays thats something we're sorely lacking.

Rain Man
02-28-2009, 05:26 PM
Hopefully this frees us up to take the best player available.

blueballs
02-28-2009, 05:36 PM
If Staffords there
you take him
auction him off if you have too

CaliforniaChief
02-28-2009, 05:37 PM
Send it to the Vikings along with Tony G. for Jared Allen. Freak edge rusher for the 3-4? Check. Redemption of past sins? Check. Vikings get best TE in league to replace Shiancoe and the opportunity to draft a franchise QB because Rosenfels isn't it.

*wakes up*

crazycoffey
02-28-2009, 05:43 PM
Gotta be Curry. Outside possibility of Crabtree.


I concur; oh, and kindly remove your avatar, I have the copyrights lawyers from CP on speed dial.... :p

Pitt Gorilla
02-28-2009, 05:53 PM
I love the options. Take the best player or let someone trade up for a QB or Curry. The Cassel deal sets us up very well for the draft.

suds79
02-28-2009, 05:54 PM
BPA right now.

If I had to guess? I'd say probably Curry.

But I think a trade down possibility is still there.

Mr. Krab
02-28-2009, 05:57 PM
trade the #3 and Cassel to Detroit for the 1st and 20th :p

Braincase
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
BPA right now.

If I had to guess? I'd say probably Curry.

But I think a trade down possibility is still there.

Agreed. Trade down to the bottom half of the top 10, or early teens, grab the BPA (OL? Oher?) and another 2nd rounder. Trade TG, BW, & LJ for additional picks.

chop
02-28-2009, 06:15 PM
trade the #3 and Cassel to Detroit for the 1st and 20th :p

That would go down as a "how to move up in the draft and it not cost you anything" type of a move.

Won't happen but it would be funny.

ChiefRon
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Stafford or Sanchez

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:09 PM
This Crabtree shit is out of hand, think logically for 5 seconds, a team that seems to be hell bent on a 3-4 defense with a GM from a team that used 3 top 15 picks on DL.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:12 PM
This Crabtree shit is out of hand, think logically for 5 seconds, a team that seems to be hell bent on a 3-4 defense with a GM from a team that used 3 top 15 picks on DL.

i can see their point about a WR, BUT i see this draft as now having to focus on the defensive side

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:15 PM
I am pretty much going to guarantee this team has BJ Raji rated higher than most other teams do if they think he can play NT because it's the most important position in the 3-4.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:18 PM
I am pretty much going to guarantee this team has BJ Raji rated higher than most other teams do if they think he can play NT because it's the most important position in the 3-4.

i would think so too, who ya got mecca as of right now if we keep the #3(not to argue, just genuinely want to know) you do know more about the draft than most, just sometimes you are way to condescending. i am interested in your opinion on this

speak24
02-28-2009, 07:23 PM
Cake?

milkman
02-28-2009, 07:24 PM
Why people think Cassel = Curry is beyond me. The only thing it ACTUALLY means is that they won't take a QB.

Like it or not, they COULD take a LT if they feel he's a can't-miss prospect and/or Albert will be elite at RT/guard, or more likely they could take Raji to play the nose or an edge rusher. Curry's the favorite, but not a lock.

If I'm Scott Pioli and I just traded for Caseel, one of my priorities is going to try to find players that can give him protection.

I am not, however, going to use the #3 overall to replace the one bright spot on that line.

I can find players in the third and fourth round that can play and improve the line without moving the kid that has immense potential.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:24 PM
i would think so too, who ya got mecca as of right now if we keep the #3(not to argue, just genuinely want to know) you do know more about the draft than most, just sometimes you are way to condescending. i am interested in your opinion on this

Lets put it this way, I don't think it's going to be a WR or a non rushing LB....

milkman
02-28-2009, 07:25 PM
I am pretty much going to guarantee this team has BJ Raji rated higher than most other teams do if they think he can play NT because it's the most important position in the 3-4.

I'd have to agree.

I think BJ Raji just jumped to the top of his board.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 07:27 PM
I am pretty much going to guarantee this team has BJ Raji rated higher than most other teams do if they think he can play NT because it's the most important position in the 3-4.
This.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:27 PM
Lets put it this way, I don't think it's going to be a WR or a non rushing LB....

mecca i really want to know how you feel as of right now, i understand things will change from now to the draft, i wont hold you to it.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:28 PM
I'd have to agree.

I think BJ Raji just jumped to the top of his board.

what about shaun rogers he's not happy, lj and swap 7ths for rogers:D

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:29 PM
They traded a 2nd for Rogers so in 1 year I doubt they're going to ask for that little...I think the Chiefs will target someone for those nose whether it be in FA or the draft...

Saul Good
02-28-2009, 07:31 PM
Lets put it this way, I don't think it's going to be a WR or a non rushing LB....Yep. I kinda figured you wanted a LT.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:31 PM
They traded a 2nd for Rogers so in 1 year I doubt they're going to ask for that little...I think the Chiefs will target someone for those nose whether it be in FA or the draft...

well if they could trade rogers it would save them like 9 million this year right, still who ya got at 3

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:32 PM
I doubt it will save them much at all seeing as he's only in the 2nd year of his deal...he hates Mangini so he wants out.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:37 PM
I am pretty much going to guarantee this team has BJ Raji rated higher than most other teams do if they think he can play NT because it's the most important position in the 3-4.

I think he can play it. All he does is power through guys and push them out of his way.

It's between Raji and Brown, with Curry having an outside chance if Pioli thinks he can rush.

unothadeal
02-28-2009, 07:38 PM
I hope Stafford is there at 3

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:39 PM
I think he can play it. All he does is power through guys and push them out of his way.

It's between Raji and Brown, with Curry having an outside chance if Pioli thinks he can rush.

I know people are going to say trade down but I just think that will be nearly impossible in this teams pick position.

And I'm not sure Everette Brown is tall enough to play OLB.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 07:39 PM
I hope Stafford is there at 3
That would make great bait to trade down.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:40 PM
I know people are going to say trade down but I just think that will be nearly impossible in this teams pick position.

And I'm not sure Everette Brown is tall enough to play OLB.

so who would you take if you had the choice

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:41 PM
I'd have to agree.

I think BJ Raji just jumped to the top of his board.

If Stafford and Sanchez go 1, 2 in the mock, that's who I'm taking. I don't really have a choice.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:41 PM
so who would you take if you had the choice

Don't ask me that question because I wouldn't have traded for Matt Cassell, me and the Chiefs FO not on the same page :)

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:41 PM
If Stafford and Sanchez go 1, 2 in the mock, that's who I'm taking. I don't really have a choice.

would you take a qb still at #3 if not

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:41 PM
I know people are going to say trade down but I just think that will be nearly impossible in this teams pick position.

And I'm not sure Everette Brown is tall enough to play OLB.

You said that in the last thread we talked about him in too, so I'll repeat myself

All I'm saying is 6'2 isn't 6', and the 6'4 or 6'5 recommended for 4-3 DE is not required to be a rush backer. Harrison is 6'0, Joey Porter 6'3 & same weight as Brown.

And those were the first 2 heights I checked, I'm not finding the shortest here.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:42 PM
Don't ask me that question because I wouldn't have traded for Matt Cassell, me and the Chiefs FO not on the same page :)

ok if you are the gm and they already had cassell who ya got:D

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:42 PM
would you take a qb still at #3 if not

Yes. Cassel is not a franchise QB.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 07:43 PM
Yes. Cassel is not a franchise QB.

ok youre entitled to your opinion, but watch some video he might just be

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:43 PM
You said that in the last thread we talked about him in too, so I'll repeat myself

None of them were drafted all that high and he's not built like them, Everette Brown is kind of round in the middle, he looks way more like a DE than he does a lean player who can play OLB.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
None of them were drafted all that high and he's not built like them, Everette Brown is kind of round in the middle, he looks way more like a DE than he does a lean player who can play OLB.

Really?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2ikEvVMmmzg/SXENFFidw2I/AAAAAAAACZk/AdEQ2jrgHqs/s320/brown.jpg

I don't know. And that's a very small reason to disqualify someone who plays like he does.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Really?
http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_2ikEvVMmmzg/SXENFFidw2I/AAAAAAAACZk/AdEQ2jrgHqs/s320/brown.jpg

I don't know. And that's a very small reason to disqualify someone who plays like he does.

You just can't take him 3 and this is from me someone who likes him.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:53 PM
You just can't take him 3 and this is from me someone who likes him.

Because internet mock drafters say he's not worth it? I just don't get it. What makes him not worth it?

What makes Raji so different? Everette Brown was considered a higher pick before the seniorbowl.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 07:54 PM
I'd have to agree.

I think BJ Raji just jumped to the top of his board.

Unless a miracle trade down happens, I completely agree.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:54 PM
Because internet mock drafters say he's not worth it? I just don't get it. What makes him not worth it?

What makes Raji so different? Everette Brown was considered a higher pick before the seniorbowl.

A NT is a much rarer position than a rush backer is....I'd be surprised if Brown is the first end/rush backer picked to be honest with you.

If you really wanted Brown you literally could trade down and not worry about him getting picked.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:54 PM
And as far as him being soft, I wouldn't be surprised if he was bulking up for the combine so 4-3 teams won't write him off.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 07:56 PM
A NT is a much rarer position than a rush backer is....I'd be surprised if Brown is the first end/rush backer picked to be honest with you.

If you really wanted Brown you literally could trade down and not worry about him getting picked.

I'd guess there are around the same number of elite NTs as there are ELITE OLB's. I think Brown has the potential to be elite. Maybe Raji does too, I don't know.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:59 PM
I'd guess there are around the same number of elite NTs as there are ELITE OLB's. I think Brown has the potential to be elite. Maybe Raji does too, I don't know.

And also Mike Mayock hates Everette Brown I'm not one to go with Mayock but I just find that weird

Tribal Warfare
02-28-2009, 08:02 PM
If you really wanted Brown you literally could trade down and not worry about him getting picked.

I believe this is the plan

unothadeal
02-28-2009, 08:03 PM
So is #3 too high for Raji?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:06 PM
So is #3 too high for Raji?

That's kind of up in the air to tell you the truth.

Will
02-28-2009, 08:14 PM
So is #3 too high for Raji?

Really in this years draft there isn't much worth taking at 3. almost anyone on the board would be to high for 3. The one thing going against Raji is that interior lineman have a hard time adjusting to the NFL. At best it probably take him 2-3 yrs before you really see him making a huge difference.

bdeg
02-28-2009, 08:21 PM
And also Mike Mayock hates Everette Brown I'm not one to go with Mayock but I just find that weird

link? I'm trying to find it. He actually has him ranked as a DE in his rankings on 2/23

bdeg
02-28-2009, 08:22 PM
By the way don't forget just last year Mayock had Mendenhall rated WELL above McFadden. His #1 RB was actually the 4th taken. He's not bullet-proof.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:24 PM
a kicker?

Saul Good
02-28-2009, 08:33 PM
Yes. Cassel is not a franchise QB.If Stafford is on the board, you grab him. If it's Sanchez, I just don't see it. I am a fan of his, but you don't reach on a QB at 3 unless you are desperate. Either Stafford or Cassel would be a fantastic trading chip, though.

Will
03-01-2009, 08:56 AM
Yes. Cassel is not a franchise QB.

Well how do you know that Stafford or Sanchez are franchise QB? I beleive that Stafford has the ability (as long as he doesn't go to the lions lol) but I don't see Sanchez as anything more than an average QB. Either way we were going to take a gamble on a QB and if not the trade then with the number 3 pick. I would much rathar use Cassel for 2nd round pick then take one with 3. If cassel doesn't work out then we don't lose much and we can draft another QB aonther year when the QB crop is a little deeper and better.