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the Talking Can
02-28-2009, 01:03 PM
I am not saying that Cassell is or will be a great QB. So spare me your crying, I'm not interested. I am fully aware that he could be Scott Mitchell 2.

But Pioli believes in him, and got him for an undeniable steal.



Cassell:
1 full year starter
11 wins
89.4 QB rating

acquired for a high second (with Vrabel thrown in)


Matt Schaub:
started 2 games in 3 years

acquired (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2807051) for a swap of 1st rounders and TWO future second rounders

When the trade is completed, Atlanta and Houston will flip-flop first-round picks in April's draft, and Atlanta will receive Houston's second-round picks in 2007 and 2008. The deal will be announced Thursday. Houston has the No. 8 pick in the first round of the draft, while Atlanta is slotted 10th.

MIAdragon
02-28-2009, 01:05 PM
Were there not alot here who wanted Schaub?

FAX
02-28-2009, 01:09 PM
In a perfect world, I'd love to draft and groom our own franchise quarterback. However, if Pioli thinks Cassel is more capable than Stafford of Sanchez (and nobody knows him better than Pioli), I'm happier than a suicide frog in frog heaven surrounded by 70 virgin frogs with a box of Triscuits.

Plus, he was relatively inexpensive. There's no reason to be negative about this acquisition. Pioli knows that we need a winner under center. If Cassel's not the guy, he'll find one. Apparently, he just doesn't believe that Stafford and Sanchez are the right player for us right now.

FAX

Manila-Chief
02-28-2009, 01:56 PM
Of course the true value of this trade will only be known in a year or so. If Stafford becomes a young Elway or Sanchez becomes a young Montana and we have a chance to draft either (they both may be gone when we draft???) ... I'll be disappointed.

But, as of today I think it was a good value trade. We got 2 players for the #34. One has a chance to be a franchise QB and the other will be a leader on defense.

Also, instead of paying a young QB $70 mil ... Cassel will be cheaper.

I agree with the guy on 810 radio ... it would have been good deal at #3 ... to get 2 quality players.

Rausch
02-28-2009, 02:02 PM
Of course the true value of this trade will only be known in a year or so.

I would disagree.

We don't get to make this decision in a year or so. The question is the value of Sanchez/Stafford, Cassel, and what we gave up to make this move.

Let's pretend we know for a fact Cassel is a failure. We've seen the future and he's not a Chief in 2 years. What did it cost us?

Right now nothing long term (as far as cap hit) and a 2nd. Plus any contributions Vrabel might add.

Hell, we gave up a 2nd an 4th just to hire our last two COACHES...

Bowser
02-28-2009, 02:03 PM
The Patriots aren't going to shit right for two weeks.

Valiant
02-28-2009, 02:05 PM
I would disagree.

We don't get to make this decision in a year or so. The question is the value of Sanchez/Stafford, Cassel, and what we gave up to make this move.

Let's pretend we know for a fact Cassel is a failure. We've seen the future and he's not a Chief in 2 years. What did it cost us?

Right now nothing long term (as far as cap hit) and a 2nd. Plus any contributions Vrabel might add.

Hell, we gave up a 2nd an 4th just to hire our last two COACHES...

Well lets hope those two go 1 and 2 so we don't have to second guess ourselves..

Baby Lee
02-28-2009, 02:06 PM
In a perfect world, I'd love to draft and groom our own franchise quarterback. However, if Pioli thinks Cassel is more capable than Stafford of Sanchez (and nobody knows him better than Pioli), I'm happier than a suicide frog in frog heaven surrounded by 70 virgin frogs with a box of Triscuits.

Plus, he was relatively inexpensive. There's no reason to be negative about this acquisition. Pioli knows that we need a winner under center. If Cassel's not the guy, he'll find one. Apparently, he just doesn't believe that Stafford and Sanchez are the right player for us right now.

FAX

Help me here, do the virgins collectively possess a single box of triscuits? Do each have their own box? Or does the suicide frog actually possess fee simple to the box of tasty wafers?

Fritz88
02-28-2009, 02:08 PM
Even if Sanchez or Stafford turned out to be great QBs, Pioli played it safe and picked the one he knows the best.

I have a lot of respect for Pioli. Great deal.

Gravedigger
02-28-2009, 02:10 PM
In a perfect world, I'd love to draft and groom our own franchise quarterback. However, if Pioli thinks Cassel is more capable than Stafford of Sanchez (and nobody knows him better than Pioli), I'm happier than a suicide frog in frog heaven surrounded by 70 virgin frogs with a box of Triscuits.

Plus, he was relatively inexpensive. There's no reason to be negative about this acquisition. Pioli knows that we need a winner under center. If Cassel's not the guy, he'll find one. Apparently, he just doesn't believe that Stafford and Sanchez are the right player for us right now.

FAX

LAWL with the frog comment, I agree, in theory this is a great trade because we have taken a QB that was groomed under a proven system, we take the GM that helped find and develop that system and we combine the two along with a leader of that system on defense. If you wanted a new look in Kansas City, this might not be brand new but its something we haven't seen in Kansas City for quite sometime. If I was a frog I'd commit suicide and join you on the lily pads up there.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 02:10 PM
Even if Sanchez or Stafford turned out to be great QBs, Pioli played it safe and picked the one he knows the best.

I have a lot of respect for Pioli. Great deal.

Only in KC could "playing it safe" even when wrong, be considered a positive.

xbarretx
02-28-2009, 02:11 PM
In a perfect world, I'd love to draft and groom our own franchise quarterback. However, if Pioli thinks Cassel is more capable than Stafford of Sanchez (and nobody knows him better than Pioli), I'm happier than a suicide frog in frog heaven surrounded by 70 virgin frogs with a box of Triscuits.

Plus, he was relatively inexpensive. There's no reason to be negative about this acquisition. Pioli knows that we need a winner under center. If Cassel's not the guy, he'll find one. Apparently, he just doesn't believe that Stafford and Sanchez are the right player for us right now.

FAX

i gotta agree FAX. initially i was bummed about Cassel, but thin i think.. well heck i didnt want us taking a QB in the first this year... and would of rather us snatches one in the 2nd or 3rd. so in this case i can deal with it b/c its like we did and we at least have a better opinion on him than a RC outta college.

welcome Cassel :clap:

now i wonder if we go Curry or OT with the 3rd or try to fandangle some first roudn swap trades to get back into the second again?

CupidStunt
02-28-2009, 02:12 PM
Glad to see you're not just an "anti-true fan" drone, Can. Always thought you had good takes.

Believe me, I hate all the RT/defense/9-7 types, but at the same time I understand football, and this is a GOOD freaking trade.

doomy3
02-28-2009, 02:13 PM
This was great value. Forgot about the Schaub trade. ROFL

Stewie
02-28-2009, 02:14 PM
I'm pretty sure Cassel won 11 games last year. If Pioli likes him, I do too. I also know Pioli stated he likes guys with smarts and toughness. Cassel must fill the bill or Pioli wouldn't have made the deal.

Shag
02-28-2009, 02:16 PM
I would disagree.

We don't get to make this decision in a year or so. The question is the value of Sanchez/Stafford, Cassel, and what we gave up to make this move.

Let's pretend we know for a fact Cassel is a failure. We've seen the future and he's not a Chief in 2 years. What did it cost us?

Right now nothing long term (as far as cap hit) and a 2nd. Plus any contributions Vrabel might add.

Hell, we gave up a 2nd an 4th just to hire our last two COACHES...

Obviously, the biggest cost would be not drafting Stafford/Sanchez (assuming either/both are available at 3), and having that player turn out to be a true franchise QB.

Hog Farmer
02-28-2009, 02:17 PM
http://www.patriotsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=43638



:clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap::clap:ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL Post #10


And they're trying to justify it by saying they saved 20 million salary cap.

Basileus777
02-28-2009, 02:18 PM
People need to stop mentioned Stafford as if he was an actual option. He's going to Detroit. That's it. If you want to want a comparison, the one to do is Cassel vs Sanchez.

Manila-Chief
02-28-2009, 02:20 PM
I would disagree.

We don't get to make this decision in a year or so. The question is the value of Sanchez/Stafford, Cassel, and what we gave up to make this move.

Let's pretend we know for a fact Cassel is a failure. We've seen the future and he's not a Chief in 2 years. What did it cost us?

Right now nothing long term (as far as cap hit) and a 2nd. Plus any contributions Vrabel might add.

Hell, we gave up a 2nd an 4th just to hire our last two COACHES...

I agree with you ... I agree the decision had to be made NOW!!! It is a good decision.

You are correct ... in case of a bust ... Cassel is a better value bust!!!

Oh, I'm not one to say we should wait until he proves himself ... coz we wouldn't get him then.

Plus, it's a good decision coz Detroit, St. Loser or someone trading with them may take Stafford & Sanchez before we get a chance to draft. Do I think that will happen? No! but it's possible so if Pioli believes Cassel is a QBOTF better to make this deal now. The trade might alert other teams as a trade partner.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 02:22 PM
I don't think this move had anything to do with playing it safe. Pioli has worked directly with Matt Cassel for the last four years and has watched him go from an unknown to one of the best young QBs in the league. He knows his strengths, weaknesses, how he works in practice, how he works with others, and what type of system he needs to thrive in.

An opportunity to trade for him and Mike Vrabel for a measly 2nd round pick came along, and he pounced on it.

That's not playing it safe - that's playing it smart.

melbar
02-28-2009, 02:28 PM
Only in KC could "playing it safe" even when wrong, be considered a positive.

Why is it always "playing it safe" to pick a known quality somewhat proven commodity over a maybe he will maybe he wont guy? Thats playing it smart. You dont lose anything tools wise over Sanchez or Stafford, and you do know Cassels work ethic and ability to perform against NFL talent. All you lose is a couple of years age wise.

If by "safe" you mean smart, I'll take that any day over the week over gambling on potential. I still like the 2 QB's in the draft and would have taken that chance, but we had 3 strong choices and we took the one we know the most about, who will take less time to develop, and we paid much less for him.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 02:29 PM
Why is it always "playing it safe" to pick a known quality somewhat proven commodity over a maybe he will maybe he wont guy? Thats playing it smart. You dont lose anything tools wise over Sanchez or Stafford, and you do know Cassels work ethic and ability to perform against NFL talent. All you lose is a couple of years age wise.

If by "safe" you mean smart, I'll take that any day over the week over gambling on potential. I still like the 2 QB's in the draft and would have taken that chance, but we had 3 strong choices and we took the one we know the most about, who will take less time to develop, and we paid much less for him.

Read the post I responded to, FFS.

CupidStunt
02-28-2009, 02:32 PM
I'm pretty sure Cassel won 11 games last year. If Pioli likes him, I do too. I also know Pioli stated he likes guys with smarts and toughness. Cassel must fill the bill or Pioli wouldn't have made the deal.

Cassel has been described by coaches and teammates as one of the hardest workers on the team, a real film rat and competitor.

melbar
02-28-2009, 02:41 PM
Read the post I responded to, FFS.

K, I see your point. Sorry bout that...:D I just get frustrated by "safe" generally being used as a curse word. I dont think the Chiefs have done very much safe or smart for a while. Obviously, making any decision "if its wrong" would just be stupid.

melbar
02-28-2009, 02:44 PM
Cassel has been described by coaches and teammates as one of the hardest workers on the team, a real film rat and competitor.

That honestly is one of the things that has really made me feel good about this. He also has very nice footwork and mechanics in place. I also like the fact that he got better as he went corrected mistakes, and grew as a QB as the season went on.

sparkky
02-28-2009, 02:51 PM
as I said in the other thread the risk/reward factor on this deal is almost off the chart. we have a lot more to gain than we have to lose.

ncCHIEFfan
02-28-2009, 03:05 PM
Only in KC could "playing it safe" even when wrong, be considered a positive.

Not knowing the future, this was not "playing it safe" dude, it was smart. Hopfully we will get use to smart moves around here

ncCHIEFfan
02-28-2009, 03:06 PM
sorry melbar, guess I am behind in the conversation

the Talking Can
02-28-2009, 03:09 PM
Of course the true value of this trade will only be known in a year or so. If Stafford becomes a young Elway or Sanchez becomes a young Montana and we have a chance to draft either (they both may be gone when we draft???) ... I'll be disappointed.
.


actually i forgot to mention this and i agree

but we have scenarios:

Sanchez is great
Cassell sucks

Sanchez is great
Cassell is great

Sanchez sucks
Cassell is great

Sanchez sucks
Cassell sucks

so there is only 1 scenario in 4 where we really lose for passing on Sanchez, the first one....

ncCHIEFfan
02-28-2009, 03:17 PM
actually i forgot to mention this and i agree

but we have scenarios:

Sanchez is great
Cassell sucks

Sanchez is great
Cassell is great

Sanchez sucks
Cassell is great

Sanchez sucks
Cassell sucks

so there is only 1 scenario in 4 where we really lose for passing on Sanchez, the first one....

LOL...great point

cdcox
02-28-2009, 03:23 PM
No question that we got good value in the trade.