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View Full Version : Chiefs Matt Cassell -- My Assessment


Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:15 PM
I've posted at some length about Cassell before in some no doubt long forgotten threads. Given the latest developments, however, I'll try to repeat my thoughts.

I think Matt Cassell has a better than average opportunity to succeed as a starting QB in the NFL. I think, therefore, he represents a much lower risk than nearly any pick that is taken in the draft.

Cassell's season with the Patriots last year showed much about him. It was really a tale of two seasons -- the early part, when he more or less stunk, and the latter part when he came into his own, the coaches and team played to his strengths and stayed away from his weaknesses, and the game clearly slowed down for him and he became more confident and capable in his position and play.

The GOOD:

1. Cassell CLEARLY has all the physical skills. He is big, tall, strong and tough. He takes a wallop and gets right back up. He has the arm strength to throw all the passes -- the deep out or the deep ball. He is reasonably shifty in the pocket (but note pocket presence/timing below) and has good speed in running out of the pocket. There is no physical limitation in his game.

2. Cassell appears to have good leadership skills. Everything I saw/read about Cassell suggests a mature and intelligent individual to whom the team responded. A veteran team, the Patriots players could have folded their tent on him, but he appeared to get the team to buy into him -- both coaches and other players.

3. He isn't a rookie. You may not appreciate this much, but rookies, whether QBs or any other NFL position players, take a hell of a lot of time to understand what the NFL is all about. It's relatively rare for players to have tremendous impact in their first years for precisely this reason. He not only isn't a rookie, but he has been well coached and has seen the best in the game conduct his business.

4. Patience/coachability. He clearly is very coachable. His tremendous improvement as 2008 went along is evidence of that, as well as all the statements made by the Patriots coaches and other players. He also took a beating early in the season, which was partly his fault and partly the fault of the OLine, but continued to progress and elevate his game.


The BAD:

1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

2. Timing/pocket presence. Although it got better as the year went along, Cassell took far too many sacks, held the ball too long, and didn't seem to have a good feel for the pocket. Note that this DID get better as teh year went along, and my main source of comparison was Tom Brady, who has about the best pocket presence since Dan Marino, so I may be a bit unreasonable here.

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.


In summary, I think he has a better than average chance to be a high quality NFL starting QB. His ceiling is not yet determined, but I think it is quite high.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:18 PM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:19 PM
I was waiting for this post. Thanks.

ChiefsCountry
02-28-2009, 03:20 PM
Finally a post from a non-troll Patriot fan. Thanks Ammorix.

ArrowheadHawk
02-28-2009, 03:21 PM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

ROFL

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:22 PM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

ct
02-28-2009, 03:22 PM
As always, thanks Amnorix!

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:24 PM
+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

Im not defending Thigpen and Im not mad about the Cassell trade, but when did Thiggy have a lousy attitude?

Deberg_1990
02-28-2009, 03:25 PM
heh, i hope people dont take this the wrong way, but he sounds kind of similiar to Elvis Grbac circa 1997.

chop
02-28-2009, 03:25 PM
But can he catch the deep pass as well as TT?

sparkky
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
thanks for your input. always glad to read it. ALWAYS

ChiefRon
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

Does sound a lot like Thigpen.

Another thing that I haven't seen mention: Josh McDaniels knows this guy better than anyone, and will know how to attack his weaknesses. May not mean much, but...

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:26 PM
heh, i hope people dont take this the wrong way, but he sounds kind of similiar to Elvis Grbac circa 1997.

He reminds me a lot of Grbac in many ways.

Except his attitude appears to be the exact opposite.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

Just watch Cassel's highlight reel. You'll see how much more accurate he is. He's a major upgrade over Thigpen. Tyler was fucking terrible.

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
Im not defending Thigpen and Im not mad about the Cassell trade, but when did Thiggy have a lousy attitude?

As soon as he started doing skeletons from the rear.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

He is quite accurate. The result of alot of pass plays during the year was Cassell either throwing sideways, or throwing straight in front of him to someone on a crossing route, whether it was Faulk or Welker in the gap between the LBs and DBs, or a Moss or Welker doing a deeper in cut.

That speaks to his ability to see the entire field. We'll see how that comes along. It seemed to imrpove over the course of the season, but his excellent accuracy in the short/mid range throws was a saving grace.

rad
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

Tyler Thigpen v.2

DenverChief
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
I

3. Needs the shotgun. As a result of item 2, above, the Patriots starting putting Cassell into the shotgun. ALOT. A whole lot. That definitely helped him quite a bit in terms of seeing/processing the field of play, making quicker decisions, avoiding sacks, etc., but the shotgun also limits the offensive playcalling a fair bit.

.

But but but a QB MUST be able to operate out of the "traditional" offense to be successful in the NFL :rolleyes:

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 03:27 PM
But but but a QB MUST be able to operate out of the "traditional" offense to be successful in the NFL :rolleyes:

I just want you to know that I don't have any hair on my testicles.

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:28 PM
He is quite accurate.

This alone makes him a completely different quarterback when compared to Thigpen.

End of discussion.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:28 PM
Just watch Cassel's highlight reel. You'll see how much more accurate he is. He's a major upgrade over Thigpen. Tyler was ****ing terrible.

To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

Deberg_1990
02-28-2009, 03:28 PM
He reminds me a lot of Grbac in many ways.

Except his attitude appears to be the exact opposite.



Both 7th rounders. Both big strong armed guys, had all the tools. Lets hope Cassel has a better head.

DenverChief
02-28-2009, 03:29 PM
I just want you to know that I don't have any hair on my testicles.

LMAO

Stewie
02-28-2009, 03:29 PM
Heh. These complaints are every complaint for any QB that doesn't win the SB. You want a breakdown of Elway, Montana, Bradshaw, Aikman, and Marino's deficiencies? There's a laundry list. It's not about, "I see this, I see that." Hell, the coaches are on edge with every playcall and pass with the Johnny Unitases of the world.

PastorMikH
02-28-2009, 03:29 PM
I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown,



Hey, can Cassell help it if Moss doesn't run fast enough to catch up to the ball???


:):)

Deberg_1990
02-28-2009, 03:30 PM
To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

Which is funny because in that highlight reel the first play was the long bomb to Moss.

I noticed he had a 63% completion percentage. Very good for a first year starter.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 03:30 PM
To be honest, I should have put accuracy as another strength. He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.

The long bombs -- ugh.

I watched him throw some decent posts. Of course the highlight reel didn't show all the misses and I'm confident you saw about 12 games more than I did last year so I'll defer to you. But the deep throws I did watch him make gave me a 4 hour boner compared to what I saw from Tyler fucking Thigpen last year. And I'm pretty sure I saw about 15 more games of him than you did.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 03:31 PM
LMAO

I figured you could add that to your sig. Circle of life and all.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:31 PM
This alone makes him a completely different quarterback when compared to Thigpen.

End of discussion.

To be honest, accuracy is perhaps THE most important trait for a modern NFL QB.

Pennington has made an entire career on it and it alone for chrissakes.

Cassell has very good accuracy, and good instincts. Not alot of stupid decisions.

Heck -- good decision-making should have been another strength.

The question isn't whether his decisions are GOOD, ti's whether they are made FAST enough. They had to go to alot of shotgun to help him process the field faster. By later in the season, he was processing his options much faster, but still not fast enough.

Then again, I have Tom frickin' Brady as my baseline, so maybe I just don't have a fair frame of reference.

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 03:31 PM
1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.

This is not completely accurate or fair. What opposing teams did was double Moss on almost every play and leave the other receivers in one-on-one situations. It's true that Cassel had difficulties getting it to Moss against those double teams, but to say they were incapable of hooking up is just false. From the very first game, where he hit the long pass against the Chiefs, to the game against the Chargers where Moss should have have multiple bombs but failed to make the plays, to the pass that hit Gaffney right in the hands and was dropped against the Colts, Cassel showed he has the ability to make the throw. He definitely needs to get better at it, but he was clearly not 'incapable'.

-King-
02-28-2009, 03:31 PM
This alone makes him a completely different quarterback when compared to Thigpen.

End of discussion.

Shhh! Now Hamas will come and tell you that he doesnt have a strong arm.

the Talking Can
02-28-2009, 03:33 PM
so he's a black Thigpen?

keg in kc
02-28-2009, 03:33 PM
1. He had no touch on the long ball. None. Whenever he went deep to Moss or anyone else, whether they were open or not, they were completely incapable of hooking up. I imagine that was a timing thing as much as anything, and it may be that having a full training camp/preseason to work on this will help tremendously, but I can't tell you how aggravating it was to see Moss 5 yards behind the entire defense running free and to have the ball overthrown, or whatever. It happened time and time again.I doubt that'll be an issue here. I mean, I think the normal response for any KC QB when they see one of our receivers 5 yards behind anybody is shock and disbelief, followed by a fainting spell.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:33 PM
I watched him throw some decent posts. Of course the highlight reel didn't show all the misses and I'm confident you saw about 12 games more than I did last year so I'll defer to you. But the deep throws I did watch him make gave me a 4 hour boner compared to what I saw from Tyler ****ing Thigpen last year. And I'm pretty sure I saw about 15 more games of him than you did.

Deep OUTS were fine.

Teh bomb to teh guy behind the defense missed time and again. He must have missed Moss at least 5 times when Moss was open behind the defense. It was a theme, and a very aggravating one.

Then again, your WR corps might never get open behind the defense as currently constituted, so it might be less of a problem for you guys. :p :D

(sorry, couldn't resist)

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
This is not completely accurate or fair. What opposing teams did was double Moss on almost every play and leave the other receivers in one-on-one situations. It's true that Cassel had difficulties getting it to Moss against those double teams, but to say they were incapable of hooking up is just false. From the very first game, where he hit the long pass against the Chiefs, to the game against the Chargers where Moss should have have multiple bombs but failed to make the plays, to the pass that hit Gaffney right in the hands and was dropped against the Colts, Cassel showed he has the ability to make the throw. He definitely needs to get better at it, but he was clearly not 'incapable'.

I like your post better. Sorry Amnorix.

kcfanXIII
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
if cassel is that much taller than thiggy, he should be able to learn to view the game from under center. i'm not so sure mr. amnorix meant we were stuck in the spread with this qb, as much as he was just stating he's still learning. correct me if i'm wrong, but i just think thigpen had reached his potential (and that involved the spread), while cassel will continue to improve his game.

Deberg_1990
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
He is definitely very accurate in the short and mid range throws.



This should give Tony G and Bowe instant hard ons.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
I doubt that'll be an issue here. I mean, I think the normal response for any KC QB when they see one of our receivers 5 yards behind anybody is shock and disbelief, followed by a fainting spell.

LOL. You beat me by this much (holds fingers an inch apart).

Also note that it's not arm strength that was a problem -- OVERthrowing Randy fricking Moss is pretty damn impressive. It was timing/accuracy. And a full offseason of working on it might help tremendously.

dirk digler
02-28-2009, 03:34 PM
I doubt that'll be an issue here. I mean, I think the normal response for any KC QB when they see one of our receivers 5 yards behind anybody is shock and disbelief, followed by a fainting spell.

LMAO

I hope that changes though with an offensive guru as our head coach

Thanks for the input Amnorix

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:35 PM
How about his footwork, Amno?

TRR
02-28-2009, 03:37 PM
I watched quite a few Patriots games last year because Cassel was my starting fantasy QB. I thought he threw the deep ball pretty well for not having training camp to establish timing. You saw him improve his deep ball at the end of the year because of the time he had to gel with the first string in my opinion.

What I like most about Cassel (other than his athleticism) is his velocity on the ball. He throws a very catchable ball, and can fit it in to covered areas. I didn't see this type of velocity that Cassel displayed from Thigpen last season.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:37 PM
This is not completely accurate or fair. What opposing teams did was double Moss on almost every play and leave the other receivers in one-on-one situations. It's true that Cassel had difficulties getting it to Moss against those double teams, but to say they were incapable of hooking up is just false. From the very first game, where he hit the long pass against the Chiefs, to the game against the Chargers where Moss should have have multiple bombs but failed to make the plays, to the pass that hit Gaffney right in the hands and was dropped against the Colts, Cassel showed he has the ability to make the throw. He definitely needs to get better at it, but he was clearly not 'incapable'.

I didn't say he couldn't hit Moss, or that he wasn't able to hook up with him, but if you saw all teh Pats games, how many times did he overthrow/underthrow/miss Moss very deep? It was often. More often than we saw with Brady.

Of course, that's a hard play to make for any QB/WR, but it was painful top watch sometimes. Usually when he hit Moss it was on a crossing route or in/out cut.

tboss27
02-28-2009, 03:38 PM
Here's my assessment . . .
Cassel >>>>>>>>>>>> Thigpen/unproven and highly paid rookie. You have to think about the advantage it gives us w/ our first pick in getting Cassel, now we for sure get a piece that will help us immediately - whether a LB, another weapon for Cassel, DE, whatever it might be. Cassel fills two huge needs because we get a winning QB w/ experience and we keep our 1st rounder.

DaWolf
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
I feel all QB's have weaknesses, and Cassel is no exception. My question will be is this guy dedicated to his craft? Will he spend long hours in the film room studying defenses, will he be working tirelessly to improve himself and work with Haley to learn the intricacies of the offense, stay the extra time to work with his receivers on his timing, etc, or is he going to be content with his big contract and fall apart like we see so many other QB's do after a big year?

I'm guessing Pioli knows the guy well enough to make that judgment, but I guess time will tell...

Saleenman607
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
What jersey # will he settle for? I say #12

Mile High Mania
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do at WR.... Bowe and Gonzo are very nice, but I think KC needs to make a splash or two at WR if the Cassell experiment is going to pay off. I think he's a good QB, but if they don't beef up at WR... the trade is kinda pointless.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:39 PM
How about his footwork, Amno?

I never really watch footwork. Seemed fine to me based on his overall accuracy. He didn't get happy feet, or flee the pocket too quickly, in my opinion, so overall I think it was fine.

He seemed to have good mechanics to me.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:40 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do at WR.... Bowe and Gonzo are very nice, but I think KC needs to make a splash or two at WR if the Cassell experiment is going to pay off. I think he's a good QB, but if they don't beef up at WR... the trade is kinda pointless.

They need to beef up the O-line before they worry about WR's.

aturnis
02-28-2009, 03:40 PM
Im not defending Thigpen and Im not mad about the Cassell trade, but when did Thigpen have a lousy attitude?

When he said he's earned a shot at the starting QB job.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 03:40 PM
It will be interesting to see what they do at WR.... Bowe and Gonzo are very nice, but I think KC needs to make a splash or two at WR if the Cassell experiment is going to pay off. I think he's a good QB, but if they don't beef up at WR... the trade is kinda pointless.

OLine. The QB needs TIME and to not get killed.

WRs just need to not suck.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:41 PM
When he said he's earned a shot at the starting QB job.

Thats a lousy attitude? :spock: Sounds like a young man showing confidence in his skills to me...

TRR
02-28-2009, 03:41 PM
What jersey # will he settle for? I say #12

As someone said earlier, #16 is retired. Cassel was #10 in college. If he can preform like the last QB wearing #10 did in KC, we should all be fairly happy.

Count Zarth
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
OLine. The QB needs TIME and to not get killed.

WRs just need to not suck.

Devard Darling to flourish!

mlyonsd
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
OLine. The QB needs TIME and to not get killed.

WRs just need to not suck.

That's my only ? mark about Cassel. With our OL I'm afraid he might get killed.

The one bright spot about Thigpen was sometimes he was hard to catch.

2bikemike
02-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Im not defending Thigpen and Im not mad about the Cassell trade, but when did Thigpen have a lousy attitude?

I was thinking the same thing. I never heard anything about a lousy attitude until that post.

Bowser
02-28-2009, 03:43 PM
Devard Darling to flourish!

LMAO

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 03:43 PM
I didn't say he couldn't hit Moss, or that he wasn't able to hook up with him, but if you saw all teh Pats games, how many times did he overthrow/underthrow/miss Moss very deep? It was often. More often than we saw with Brady.

Of course, that's a hard play to make for any QB/WR, but it was painful top watch sometimes. Usually when he hit Moss it was on a crossing route or in/out cut.

I saw every game. And, as I said, he needs to improve on the deep ball. However, it wasn't nearly as bad as you seemed to be implying it was. If I inferred incorrectly, my apologies.

TRR
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
I was thinking the same thing. I never heard anything about a lousy attitude until that post.

I think most fans were pretty sour on the idea of Thigpen saying he rightfully earned the starting QB spot in 2009. While Thigpen came in and did some good things, the bottom line is that the win-loss record didn't show it, and his INT's were starting to become very troublesome...all the way through his last game of the 08' season.

tboss27
02-28-2009, 03:45 PM
What jersey # will he settle for? I say #12

He'll have to steal it away from our current 3rd string made of glass QB

ChiefsCountry
02-28-2009, 03:46 PM
As someone said earlier, #16 is retired. Cassel was #10 in college. If he can preform like the last QB wearing #10 did in KC, we should all be fairly happy.

He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

The Bad Guy
02-28-2009, 03:48 PM
The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

Mile High Mania
02-28-2009, 03:50 PM
By the way... I think the acquisition of Cassell was a solid move.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 03:51 PM
He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

Yeah, Trent Green sucked. :rolleyes:

Frazod
02-28-2009, 03:53 PM
I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

Frazod
02-28-2009, 03:55 PM
He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

Yeah, because leading the best offense in football totally sucked. :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you don't appreciate what Trent Green did for the Chiefs, you're dumber than a box of shit.

IT'S NOT TRENT GREEN'S FAULT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A DEFENSE.

Rausch
02-28-2009, 03:56 PM
I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

Not likely.

If we'd just won 3 and been in 4 SB's in the last decade would we care if we traded off our b/u QB and an old LB?...

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 03:56 PM
The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

Bradley isn't quick enough to work in the slot.

If you really want to build this team around Cassel, you need to find a way to get a team like SF or Jax to trade up for a QB, and take a guy like Maclin or DHB.

DenverChief
02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
I figured you could add that to your sig. Circle of life and all.



You got it :)

tomahawk kid
02-28-2009, 04:00 PM
Ammorix,

I could see you and I sitting down for a nice bowl of "chowda" and downing several Sam Adams.

Thanks for the info.....

tomahawk kid
02-28-2009, 04:01 PM
The Chiefs need to get one more threat at WR.

Just one.

I think Bradley could do a fine job in the slot with Franklin as the 4.

If they stay at 3, take Curry.

If they trade down, explore what WRs are available.

LB, WR, OL are the 3 biggest weaknesses on this team now with them shifting to a 3-4.

If Curry is gone, you take Crabby at 3 or try and trade down and still take Maclin (totally biased on that one).....

CupidStunt
02-28-2009, 04:17 PM
Good thread.

Here's where a lot of people go wrong with Cassel: he was never a scrub UFA who barely got recruited out of HS and ended up playing for Louisiana Tech. He was a decent prospect, described by Tom Lemming to be a "pro-style pocket passer with a very strong, accurate delivery." He was recruited by elite college programs, finally choosing one of the best - USC. There, he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as not one but TWO Heisman winners and top 10 draft picks. Come his pro day, he performed brilliantly and got himself on many team's draft boards. And the rest is history.

Look, I've got my doubts, I've got my concerns, but one thing I'm not worried about is natural talent. He's a 6'5", 230lber with a good arm, decent mobility and, apparently, a good head on his shoulders.

Let's see what happens.

MahiMike
02-28-2009, 04:29 PM
My assessment is the same as every year; Give me a proven NFL QB over a chance on a rookie any day.

AND we still have our #3 overall pick!

HELLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL YEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 04:32 PM
I saw every game. And, as I said, he needs to improve on the deep ball. However, it wasn't nearly as bad as you seemed to be implying it was. If I inferred incorrectly, my apologies.

:shrug: Agree to disagree. I don't know how many passes he had that were 30+ yards in the air, but it didn't seem to be that many. And it often wasn't for lack of opportunity.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 04:34 PM
I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

"Pissed" No. We have Tom Brady and if he's about 85+% of what he normally is in 2009 and back to about 100% by 2010, then it's the obvious move to trade away the hopefully unnecessary backup for a high draft pick.

Also, we couldn't carry him. It's our bad luck that he was going into his contract year, which forced us to franchise him and do the tag-and-trade bit. I'd have been happier if his contract was up NEXT year and he rode pine this year until we felt more confident about Brady and his knee.

This path was chosen when we tagged him. I'm not sure I'm happy with Cassel+Vrabes for a high 2nd, however.

Amnorix
02-28-2009, 04:36 PM
Good thread.

Here's where a lot of people go wrong with Cassel: he was never a scrub UFA who barely got recruited out of HS and ended up playing for Louisiana Tech. He was a decent prospect, described by Tom Lemming to be a "pro-style pocket passer with a very strong, accurate delivery." He was recruited by elite college programs, finally choosing one of the best - USC. There, he had the misfortune of playing at the same time as not one but TWO Heisman winners and top 10 draft picks. Come his pro day, he performed brilliantly and got himself on many team's draft boards. And the rest is history.

Look, I've got my doubts, I've got my concerns, but one thing I'm not worried about is natural talent. He's a 6'5", 230lber with a good arm, decent mobility and, apparently, a good head on his shoulders.

Let's see what happens.

The guy backed up:

1. CArson Palmer

2. Matt Leinhart

3. Tom Brady

How many guys would get starting time over those three? Answer -- DAMN few...

JuicesFlowing
02-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Just watch Cassel's highlight reel. You'll see how much more accurate he is. He's a major upgrade over Thigpen. Tyler was ****ing terrible.

The thing about highlight reels is they never look bad, because they are all HIGHLIGHTS. However; Thigpens Badlight reel looks much worse than Cassel's.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 04:41 PM
:shrug: Agree to disagree. I don't know how many passes he had that were 30+ yards in the air, but it didn't seem to be that many. And it often wasn't for lack of opportunity.

I'll agree with Amnorix on this one: Cassel's deep ball was BAD. So was Brady's when he first started, though. Cassel doesn't lack the arm strength- he just needs time to develop touch and chemistry with his WRs, both of which can be learned.

BigChiefFan
02-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Good post, Amnorix.

melbar
02-28-2009, 04:51 PM
He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

#10 was a better passer. #16 was a good game manager on a much better team.

tomahawk kid
02-28-2009, 04:57 PM
#10 was a better passer. #16 was a good game manager on a much better team.

#16 was clutch (from what I understand from my father and NFL Films).

Dad's take was "Lenny had a "D", but whenever you needed that 3rd down conversion or that TD pass to go ahead, he'd make it happen."

That's good enough for me....

milkman
02-28-2009, 05:03 PM
#16 was clutch (from what I understand from my father and NFL Films).

Dad's take was "Lenny had a "D", but whenever you needed that 3rd down conversion or that TD pass to go ahead, he'd make it happen."

That's good enough for me....

Exactly, that's why they called him "Lenny the Cool".

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:06 PM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.

Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT! :doh!:ROFL

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 05:12 PM
Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT! :doh!:ROFL

89.4 is damned-near identical to 76.0? Cassel was 10th in the NFL. Thigpen was 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 05:18 PM
I was just fucking around btw, I would rather have Cassell than Thigpen.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 05:21 PM
Funny you should mention that; their passer ratings for 2008 are damned-near identical!

Uh-oh; Cassel even played more games than Thigpen...DOHT! :doh!:ROFL

Epic fail (you are very, very wrong).

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:27 PM
Matt Cassel (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8644)

#16 QB
New England Patriots

2008 STATS


Att516
Comp327
Yds3474
TD21
Int11
Rat89.4



Thig-Butt:

Att * 420
Comp* 230
Yards *2608
TD * 18
INT * 12
Rat * 76.0

Quite the wide margin on those TD's and Int's yes?


EPIC UPGRADE!
<!-- end player card -->

unlurking
02-28-2009, 05:27 PM
89.4 is damned-near identical to 76.0? Cassel was 10th in the NFL. Thigpen was 27th.

http://www.nfl.com/stats/categorystats?archive=false&conference=null&statisticCategory=PASSING&season=2008&seasonType=REG&experience=null&tabSeq=0&qualified=true&Submit=Go

ownage

unlurking
02-28-2009, 05:30 PM
Matt Cassel (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/profile?playerId=8644)

#16 QB
New England Patriots

2008 STATS


Att516
Comp327
Yds3474
TD21
Int11
Rat89.4



Thig-Butt:

Att * 420
Comp* 230
Yards *2608
TD * 18
INT * 12
Rat * 76.0

Quite the wide margin on those TD's and Int's yes?


EPIC UPGRADE!
<!-- end player card -->

Almost a 10% increase in completion percentage?!?!
63.3 (MC) vs 54.7 (TT)

Are you THAT retarded you don't understand the importance of that stat?

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:32 PM
Almost a 10% increase in completion percentage?!?!

Are you THAT retarded you don't understand the importance of that stat?

How many GAMES did Thigpen start in 2008 again? He basically played half a season, you say?

EPIC, I TELL YOU!

How did we EVER get along in this world without Matt Cassel?! :D

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 05:34 PM
How many GAMES did Thigpen start in 2008 again? He basically played half a season, you say?

EPIC, I TELL YOU!

How did we EVER get along in this world without Matt Cassel?! :D

You started by pointing to passer rating, and completely screwed the pooch on that one, so you moved the goalposts and switched your argument.

You truly are an idiot.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 05:36 PM
How many GAMES did Thigpen start in 2008 again? He basically played half a season, you say?

EPIC, I TELL YOU!

How did we EVER get along in this world without Matt Cassel?! :D
The difference in number of snaps is what makes the completion percentage such an important stat. Cassel is consistently a more accurate passer.

But I'm guessing you know this, and are just pissed not to be getting your draft pick?

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:37 PM
You started by pointing to passer rating, and completely screwed the pooch on that one, so you moved the goalposts and switched your argument.

You truly are an idiot.

WHAT FUCKING GOALPOST?!!? It is what it is!!! I'm sorry your so butt-hurt over it, but if it means that much to you; go bitch to ESPN! ROFL

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 05:39 PM
WHAT FUCKING GOALPOST?!!? It is what it is!!! I'm sorry your so butt-hurt over it, but if it means that much to you; go bitch to ESPN! ROFL

I'm not butt-hurt over anything. You're the one who keeps looking for things to bitch about. You were wrong, which seems to be your normal state.

Admit it and stop acting like such a pussy. Did Sanchez say he wouldn't let you drink from his 'bottle' if he didn't become the QB for the Chiefs or something?

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:39 PM
The difference in number of snaps is what makes the completion percentage such an important stat. Cassel is consistently a more accurate passer.

But I'm guessing you know this, and are just pissed not to be getting your draft pick?

The deal ain't done yet. Remember, we're STILL holding that 3rd overall, and I don't see Thigpen as the guy to be groomed. Do you?

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:41 PM
I'm not butt-hurt over anything. You're the one who keeps looking for things to bitch about. You were wrong, which seems to be your normal state.

Admit it and stop acting like such a pussy.

ALL HAIL "JUST PASSING BY"; MASTER OF ALL THAT IS WISE AND CORRECT!

MAY WE PRAISE HIS NAME NOW AND FOREVERMORE!!!!ROFL

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 05:41 PM
The deal ain't done yet. Remember, we're STILL holding that 3rd overall, and I don't see Thigpen as the guy to be groomed. Do you?

Matt Cassel is. The guy's 26 years old- we're not talking about some 30something veteran here.

Darth CarlSatan
02-28-2009, 05:41 PM
Enough of this shit: Unsubscribe.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 05:46 PM
The deal ain't done yet. Remember, we're STILL holding that 3rd overall, and I don't see Thigpen as the guy to be groomed. Do you?
No, and I don't see Cassel as the QBOTF, but the QBOTN as someone else mentioned. Then again, I don't see Stafford or Sanchez being "the best QB prospect in half a decade" either. I think Cassel gives us stability in the QB position so we can build a team, and then pluck a QBOTF in the next few years.

Gravedigger
02-28-2009, 05:52 PM
Thank god for every single time someone believes that since their comments come on page 4 of a post last updated 1 hour ago they deserve to be analysts. This doesn't deserve ten threads saying the same exact thing. Threads of this nature deserve the same hostility as a repost regardless of the poster imo.

I dont mean to be hateful but there comes a point where its just monotonous.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Thank god for every single time someone believes that since their comments come on page 4 of a post last updated 1 hour ago they deserve to be analysts. This doesn't deserve ten threads saying the same exact thing. Threads of this nature deserve the same hostility as a repost regardless of the poster imo.

I dont mean to be hateful but there comes a point where its just monotonous.
The thread was posted because as our resident "tolerated" Pats fan, he got asked for his opinion by MANY people in MANY threads and simply posted it separately in one place.

Your post = FAIL

StcChief
02-28-2009, 05:59 PM
Nice assessment. yet Again from our resident Pats fan.

QBOF? Hope so. very happy with Pioli's moves and the way he's handling Chiefs thus far

ChiefGator
02-28-2009, 06:00 PM
Your post = FAIL

This. I, for one, was quite happy to see Amnorix had posted this and was actually looking for it when I logged on. (he has promised it yesterday or earlier or something)

Oh yeah, thanks for the good analysis (again).

bdeg
02-28-2009, 06:01 PM
Other pats fans said he locks onto targets- how bad is he about this?

bdeg
02-28-2009, 06:04 PM
I doubt that'll be an issue here. I mean, I think the normal response for any KC QB when they see one of our receivers 5 yards behind anybody is shock and disbelief, followed by a fainting spell.

You'd be surprised how many times it happened and Thigpen underthrew it. I bet it's near 20. Although the safeties were probably playing aggressive because it's Thigpen.

rad
02-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I guess the only question I have for Amnorix and the rest of the Pats fans is this - are you pissed that's he's not on your team anymore?

IMO they're more pissed about Vrabel.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 08:07 PM
Lack of touch, eh?

I'm assuming his overall accuracy is thus below average, no?

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 08:08 PM
Lack of touch, eh?

I'm assuming his overall accuracy is thus below average, no?

Nope. He's very accurate on short-intermediate throws. It's just the long ball that he has trouble with. Considering that he didn't have much TC or preseason time to develop chemistry with Moss and Welker, though, it might not be a big deal. hard to say, really.

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 08:09 PM
Other pats fans said he locks onto targets- how bad is he about this?

When the season started, he was a 1-2 read quarterback, which is one of the reasons he took so many sacks. As the season progressed, he got much better at going through the progressions. By the end of the season, he was a 3-4 read quarterback. It should be noted, for full disclosure, that the offensive line was also playing much better with the return of Neal at right guard.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:10 PM
Coaching my friends

Lets see if Haley can deliver with Cassel

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 08:11 PM
IMO they're more pissed about Vrabel.

Yeah, I'm not really pissed about either one of them. The fact that the Pats traded Cassel is good news, as far as I'm concerned, since it means that Brady's definitely healthy and ready to go for next year. I like Cassel a lot, but Brady is Brady, and I was never a big fan of tying up $30M at QB like some people were. I'm more disappointed to see Vrabel go, since I thought he could really help us make a SB run this year, but I also hope that this means that the young guys at OLB (Shawn Crable, Pierre Woods) have made good progress.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 08:11 PM
Nope. He's very accurate on short-intermediate throws.

Thigpen just became angrier.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:12 PM
Coaching my friends

Lets see if Haley can deliver with Cassel

Exactly. Coaching.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:13 PM
Thigpen just became angrier.

Oh No, that really puts Pioli in a bind ROFLROFL

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 08:17 PM
So what if Tom does not come back ????

rad
02-28-2009, 08:20 PM
So what if Tom does not come back ????

Then we ship them Thigpen for a 5.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 08:22 PM
Then we ship them Thigpen for a 5.
1st.

Dave Lane
02-28-2009, 08:25 PM
He better peform like the guy who wore #16 here instead of the one who wore #10.

You didn't think Green did a good job here?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:27 PM
You didn't think Green did a good job here?

He was a nice player but he also played in a situation many QB's would have killed for.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 08:28 PM
He was a nice player but he also played in a situation many QB's would have killed for.
Point.

Dave Lane
02-28-2009, 08:35 PM
47 sacks in a season is pretty troubling. Thats number 1 in the NFL.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 08:38 PM
47 sacks in a season is pretty troubling. Thats number 1 in the NFL.

That's why we need to take a RT at #3.

The Bad Guy
02-28-2009, 08:41 PM
47 sacks in a season is pretty troubling. Thats number 1 in the NFL.

It's a high number, but I also don't find it to be as disturbing as most.

Why?

1) This was the first time the guy started since high school. Most inexperienced QBs are going to hold the ball too long. That number actually went down in the second half of the year when the Patriots threw MORE.

2) The Patriots were in the shotgun a lot. I don't know their pass to run ratio, but it has to be lopsided.

I do not think under any circumstance we draft a RT 3rd overall. Herb Taylor can play RT for all I care.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:42 PM
It's a high number, but I also don't find it to be as disturbing as most.

Why?

1) This was the first time the guy started since high school. Most inexperienced QBs are going to hold the ball too long. That number actually went down in the second half of the year when the Patriots threw MORE.

2) The Patriots were in the shotgun a lot. I don't know their pass to run ratio, but it has to be lopsided.

I do not think under any circumstance we draft a RT 3rd overall. Herb Taylor can play RT for all I care.

or maybe richardson might wake up

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:43 PM
It's a high number, but I also don't find it to be as disturbing as most.

Why?

1) This was the first time the guy started since high school. Most inexperienced QBs are going to hold the ball too long. That number actually went down in the second half of the year when the Patriots threw MORE.

2) The Patriots were in the shotgun a lot. I don't know their pass to run ratio, but it has to be lopsided.

I do not think under any circumstance we draft a RT 3rd overall. Herb Taylor can play RT for all I care.

The Patriots finished 4th in the league in rushing yards.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:44 PM
The Patriots finished 4th in the league in rushing yards.

earlier someone said 6th

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:46 PM
earlier someone said 6th

4th 6th whatever it is, they ran for over 2000 yards. With something like 140 yards a game.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 08:47 PM
earlier someone said 6th
People are saying A LOT of wrong shit today. Don't believe half of it.

The Bad Guy
02-28-2009, 08:54 PM
The Patriots finished 4th in the league in rushing yards.

Another deceiving stat. They were 6th in the league.

Sammy Morris basically racked up almost half of his rushing totals in 2 games.

Kevin Faulk got his yards on 3rd down mostly.

Green Ellis had one 100-yard game.

Cassel was actually their 4th leading rusher.

They never had a consistent ground game. They were like the Chiefs of the late 90s. A lot of bodies, but not much in terms of striking fear into the opponent.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 08:56 PM
4th 6th whatever it is, they ran for over 2000 yards. With something like 140 yards a game.

It was 6th. I can say that with 100% certainty. Maroney, Green-Ellis, Jordan and Morris both started at various points throughout the year, and Faulk picked up lots of yards as the 3rd down back too, so we didn't have any statistical studs. Cassel was responsible for like 250 of those yards too.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:01 PM
It was 6th. I can say that with 100% certainty. Maroney, Green-Ellis, Jordan and Morris both started at various points throughout the year, and Faulk picked up lots of yards as the 3rd down back too, so we didn't have any statistical studs. Cassel was responsible for like 250 of those yards too.

Well good cause we aren't gonna have one either...

unlurking
02-28-2009, 09:03 PM
Well good cause we aren't gonna have one either...
:(

Sad but true.

tk13
02-28-2009, 09:09 PM
He definitely got better as the season progressed. If you take a look at his last 8 games as he got hot down the stretch:

171-283, 2127 yards, 14 TD, 4 INT, 94.4 rating, 6-2 overall record

And that includes that final game of the season against Buffalo when the wind was blowing 70 mph, that kinda skewers those numbers a bit.

The Bad Guy
02-28-2009, 09:20 PM
The game against Arizona too was a massive snow storm and he still posted huge numbers.

The comeback win against the Jets showed me a lot about him.

Just Passin' By
02-28-2009, 09:24 PM
The game against Arizona too was a massive snow storm and he still posted huge numbers.

The comeback win against the Jets showed me a lot about him.

They lost to the Jets in overtime. That did seem to be the key game for Cassel's season, though. After they fell behind, the coaches just had him sit back in the shotgun and cut loose. It was the first time all season Cassel truly looked relaxed and confident, and it showed in his play. The throw to Moss for the touchdown was an amazing throw/catch and the coin flip going to the Jets was yet another single instance that probably would have resulted in the Patriots going to the playoffs if it had gone the other way.

It was a really weird year.

ChiefsCountry
03-01-2009, 01:34 AM
Yeah, Trent Green sucked. :rolleyes:

Yeah, because leading the best offense in football totally sucked. :rolleyes:

Seriously, if you don't appreciate what Trent Green did for the Chiefs, you're dumber than a box of shit.

IT'S NOT TRENT GREEN'S FAULT THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE A DEFENSE.

#10 was a better passer. #16 was a good game manager on a much better team.

I dont give a damn about the #1 offense we never won shit. I want a freaking Super Bowl champion - Dawson delivered, Trent didnt. Dont get me wrong I loved Trent to death. Down to earth nicest guy but he didnt win a Super Bowl. Thats the bottom line in the NFL. Its not to go 8-8 or 10-6 and feel good on Sunday or get entertained.

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 01:41 AM
I really hate people who rip Trent.

He played a perfect playoff game.

Really, he did. Find fault with one thing Trent did in that game. I dare you.

If we had EVER fixed the defense he would have delivered a Super Bowl. No doubt in my mind.

Ultra Peanut
03-01-2009, 01:47 AM
So basically he is Tyler Thigpen.Thiggy++, but yeah.

Tribal Warfare
03-01-2009, 02:10 AM
Thats a lousy attitude? :spock: Sounds like a young man showing confidence in his skills to me...


At QB specifically, even if he has a sense of entitlement, he shoudn't have ever leaked this sentiment to press. The QB position like the HC should conduct themselves with the utmost professionalism, instead Thigpen comes off as whining child.

Ultra Peanut
03-01-2009, 02:12 AM
I really hate people who rip Trent.

He played a perfect playoff game.

Really, he did. Find fault with one thing Trent did in that game. I dare you.

If we had EVER fixed the defense he would have delivered a Super Bowl. No doubt in my mind.We had to punt once.

:sulk:

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 02:16 AM
We had to punt once.

:sulk:

No, we didn't.

There were no fucking punts in that game.

milkman
03-01-2009, 02:23 AM
No, we didn't.

There were no ****ing punts in that game.

Bascically, two crappy defenses didn't make any stops.

tk13
03-01-2009, 02:25 AM
I think in 2006 Trent could've played better, but in 2003, I don't know how on earth you expect anything else. When the defense doesn't force one single punt, what are you supposed to do? Trent didn't miss a 30 yard FG or fumble inside the red zone. Short of having mystical powers to reverse time, I don't know what else you could do.

If you were working at your job, and somebody else had a completely different job, and they didn't do it, to the point where they didn't even try, and then you got blamed when the project failed, you would shoot that other person in the face with a potato gun.

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 02:29 AM
In 2006 no quarterback would have played well.

The pass protection was shit, the running game was shit, the receivers dropped passes like they were throwing the game.

Joe fucking Montana would have lost his shit in that game.

tk13
03-01-2009, 02:34 AM
I'd agree with that, Trent wasn't 100% but I think we got all out of whack with drops in the 1st half too. The Colts defense was crazy in that playoffs. That was probably the best example of a Cover 2 in recent memory. Relentless pass rush and guys swarming downfield so you had to take the underneath stuff.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 02:52 AM
I do love the revisionist history that believes that if we would have beaten the Colts, or forced them to punt, that we wouldn't have just gotten our asses stomped the next round.

Hell, the best team Vermeil ever put on the field here was the 2005 Chiefs, and even with that mediocre defense (16th in points) we didn't do shit.

Ultra Peanut
03-01-2009, 02:54 AM
No, we didn't.

There were no fucking punts in that game.Wait, seriously? I totally scrubbed my memory of that game.

Fuck that defense so much.

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 02:56 AM
I do love the revisionist history that believes that if we would have beaten the Colts, or forced them to punt, that we wouldn't have just gotten our asses stomped the next round.


No one is saying that.

Only that if Trent had had a defense, at some point, that team would have won a Super Bowl.

Maybe not that year, but no one was beating New England that year.

Crush
03-01-2009, 03:08 AM
Thigpen just became angrier.


You won't like him when he is angry.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 03:15 AM
No one is saying that.

Only that if Trent had had a defense, at some point, that team would have won a Super Bowl.

Maybe not that year, but no one was beating New England that year.

We had a defense in 2005 that was passable, and we had an offense that was more than SB caliber. We didn't have an easy schedule, and we missed the playoffs.

You of all people should remember how much of a fucking badass Larry Johnson was in 2005. It's not like losing Johnnie Morton or John Tait caused our O to crumble.

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 03:18 AM
We had a defense in 2005 that was passable, and we had an offense that was more than SB caliber. We didn't have an easy schedule, and we missed the playoffs.

Do you remember when we played the Cowboys in Dallas? That was essentially a playoff game.

Our defense pissed down it's leg. Shat itself. All over.

Trent was magnificent.

In fact, he was so magnificent, he would have forced overtime if the fucking kicker hadn't missed.

That defense wasn't passable. They were shit against most of the good teams. They were passable against teams like the Texans.

Ultra Peanut
03-01-2009, 03:24 AM
You won't like him when he is angry.I don't like him now.

The_Doctor10
03-01-2009, 03:26 AM
Do you remember when we played the Cowboys in Dallas? That was essentially a playoff game.

Our defense pissed down it's leg. Shat itself. All over.

Trent was magnificent.

In fact, he was so magnificent, he would have forced overtime if the ****ing kicker hadn't missed.

That defense wasn't passable. They were shit against most of the good teams. They were passable against teams like the Texans.

Passable against teams like the Texans = Not worthy of jack shit.

Short Leash Hootie
03-01-2009, 03:27 AM
Enough of this shit: Unsubscribe.

So you think we're going to spend our 1st and 2nd round picks on QB's?

This dude is the dumbest drafturbator of them all.

Short Leash Hootie
03-01-2009, 03:31 AM
I just thought of this...

We have a great "Wildcat" QB on our roster! Maybe we haven't seen the last of Tyler Thigpen after all!?

Count Zarth
03-01-2009, 03:40 AM
I just thought of this...

We have a great "Wildcat" QB on our roster! Maybe we haven't seen the last of Tyler Thigpen after all!?

Thigpen is perfect suited to be our fans-go-crazy freak sideshow. He'll be the new Dante Hall. Our X-Factor. The T-Factor. His jersey will sell like hotcakes.

Short Leash Hootie
03-01-2009, 03:45 AM
In my opinion...he's up there with Vince Young as one of the best potential Wildcat QB's...Thigpen is deceivingly fast...he has to run around a 4.55/4.6...

The_Doctor10
03-01-2009, 03:51 AM
In my opinion...he's up there with Vince Young as one of the best potential Wildcat QB's...Thigpen is deceivingly fast...he has to run around a 4.55/4.6...

Only VY hasn't been on the field for a wildcat formation if I'm remembering correct... though i'm quite intoxicated by this point of the night. Gotta love the Rickards White, bitches. T'is the beer of those who fear scurvy :D

rad
03-01-2009, 07:20 AM
We had a defense in 2005 that was passable, and we had an offense that was more than SB caliber. We didn't have an easy schedule, and we missed the playoffs.

You of all people should remember how much of a ****ing badass Larry Johnson was in 2005. It's not like losing Johnnie Morton or John Tait caused our O to crumble.

In 2003, the D had the best turnover ratio in the league. That helped the offense score more points, but if we didn't force any to's we couldn't stop a high school cheerleader squad.

UberSparky
03-01-2009, 07:33 AM
+3 inches
+ an accurate arm
- lousy attitude

My wife is a Big Thiggy fan. I wasn't sure if she'd accept Cassel. Now, with those extra three inches it looks like I'll hafta buy her a new jersey for game day.