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View Full Version : Chiefs Crabtree SHOULD be the pick now!


NIUhuskies
02-28-2009, 05:56 PM
Now that we have a young franschise QB, if we can team him up with Crabtree and Bowe, we could be a VERY dangerous offense! Haley had Warner, Boldin and Fitzgerald in Zona, this could be the KC version, and they are ALL young!

DaKCMan AP
02-28-2009, 05:57 PM
http://th02.deviantart.com/fs8/300W/i/2005/287/9/6/I_see_dumb_people_o_O_by_cool_slayer.jpg

ChiefGator
02-28-2009, 05:57 PM
I think I just went into a hypnotic trance looking at your avatar.

the Talking Can
02-28-2009, 06:00 PM
antifreeze

Mr. Krab
02-28-2009, 06:01 PM
If we want to add a wideout i would rather us trade down and select Maclin to add some more speed to our WR unit.

notorious
02-28-2009, 06:02 PM
antifreeze

Took the words right out of my mouth.

Crabtree=NFW

NIUhuskies
02-28-2009, 06:02 PM
wow...how is this that bad of an idea? Cassell was great w Moss, and Crabtree has potential to be an elite WR in this league

the Talking Can
02-28-2009, 06:03 PM
wow...how is this that bad of an idea? Cassell was great w Moss, and Crabtree has potential to be an elite WR in this league

Crabtree isn't Fitzgerald, or Boldin...or hell, even Bowe....

ChiefGator
02-28-2009, 06:05 PM
wow...how is this that bad of an idea? Cassell was great w Moss, and Crabtree has potential to be an elite WR in this league

Okay, I'll throw one to you...

See the guy in your signature, he's an elite pass catcher. Bowe is pretty darn good. What is two things they both lack? Speed and quickness. Crabtree doesn't provide either of those. Not a good fit. It's also the reason you can't compare Crabtree to any of the Patriots top WRs last year.

tboss27
02-28-2009, 06:05 PM
Not if Curry is available, unless you want Pat Thomas/Rocky Boiman starting at linebacker again next year. If Curry is gone then yes, Crabtree or try to trade down and get another WR in the 1st/pick

NIUhuskies
02-28-2009, 06:05 PM
Crabtree isn't Fitzgerald, or Boldin...or hell, even Bowe....

first off, i was making reference of the Cardinal offense that Haley ran, 2 great receivers and a great QB. Obviously Cassell, Bowe and Crabtree arent at their level yet, but they are young, and sure as hell have potential to grow and be VERY good in this league

CHENZ A!
02-28-2009, 06:06 PM
Detroit has shown how great an offense can be when you draft stud WRs and your O line sucks dick.

KS-Surveyor
02-28-2009, 06:06 PM
I agree with you. Crabtree is a playmaker.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:08 PM
You guys......Crabtree is a slow average sized WR from the spread with a broken foot...

If they're hell bent on running the 3-4 plus the history of where the Pats used a ton of 1st round picks don't be surprised if Raji is the target.

NIUhuskies
02-28-2009, 06:08 PM
Okay, I'll throw one to you...

See the guy in your signature, he's an elite pass catcher. Bowe is pretty darn good. What is two things they both lack? Speed and quickness. Crabtree doesn't provide either of those. Not a good fit. It's also the reason you can't compare Crabtree to any of the Patriots top WRs last year.

point taken. dont get me wrong i really like curry as a pick too, its just the more i watch film on crabtree the more i like him. fitzgerald isnt that fast either , but the guy flat out dominates games. kid is a player, and i think hes gonna be a stud in the NFL, just my honest opinion. but your point is definitely valid as well

notorious
02-28-2009, 06:09 PM
Crabtree isn't Fitzgerald, or Boldin...or hell, even Bowe....

Every receiver you listed came from a pro-style college offense that didn't use the spread to get huge number for their WR's. Crabtree is not worth the #3.

At #3 the WR better become Cris Carter, TO, Sterling Sharpe, or Randy Moss in their prime.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:10 PM
I'd rather have Heyward-Bey than Crabtree.

notorious
02-28-2009, 06:11 PM
You guys......Crabtree is a slow average sized WR from the spread with a broken foot...

If they're hell bent on running the 3-4 plus the history of where the Pats used a ton of 1st round picks don't be surprised if Raji is the target.

I was afraid of this. Good-bye to our 1st pick last year.......

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:12 PM
In New England, Pioli's mindset was to draft the best talent available for the system, and worry about everything else next. What that means is that a lot of times you'll see:

A) A player that you think fits a need that he might pass on to get better talent. It'll be frustrating at the time, but the idea is that there's so much turnover that it all works out. You build the foundation with the draft, and fill in the gaps with FA, not vice versa.

B) A lot of times analysts will freak out that he 'reached' for a guy who they don't think has talent to justify the draft position. Everyone claimed this about Mayo last year, and he only ended up winning DROY. That's basically because Pioli doesn't give a shit where the journalists and Mel Kipers of the world rate someone- he's basing everything on a system-specific criteria that may not have a whole lot in common with what others are using.

Come draft time, I'm sure a bunch of people are going to freak out for both of these reasons. You'll see a lot of "He reached for Soandso!" and "But soandso could have filled a need, but he took someone else at another position that we don't need!" posts. Just ignore that crap, the guy knows what he's doing.

The best part is that, down the line, you'll get to look back at ridiculous quotes like this and laugh:

"On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.

- Ron Borges, MSNBC after 2001 Draft."

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:14 PM
Well Ron Borges is retarded.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:14 PM
first off, i was making reference of the Cardinal offense that Haley ran, 2 great receivers and a great QB. Obviously Cassell, Bowe and Crabtree arent at their level yet, but they are young, and sure as hell have potential to grow and be VERY good in this league

It's also worth noting that Fitzgerald and Boldin both disappointed in the 40 at the combine (4.53 and 4.7). Neither is known for having top-end speed, but being a good WR is about a lot more than 40 times. Crabtree and Bowe are both really good receivers, 40 times be damned. Not saying that that means that they'll draft Crabtree, but it's not really a reason not to.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 06:14 PM
Pioli is not going to take a slow, short WR at the #3 pick in his first draft.

I have no doubt we will take a defensive player now to fill in a position of weakness on the 3-4, whether that is on the D-line or a LB role.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:14 PM
Well Ron Borges is retarded.

Most sports journalists are, that's the point.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 06:15 PM
You guys......Crabtree is a slow average sized WR from the spread with a broken foot...

If they're hell bent on running the 3-4 plus the history of where the Pats used a ton of 1st round picks don't be surprised if Raji is the target.

I could live with that. But what do we do with Dorsey? Trade him? Try him out at DE?

unlurking
02-28-2009, 06:15 PM
In New England, Pioli's mindset was to draft the best talent available for the system, and worry about everything else next. What that means is that a lot of times you'll see:

A) A player that you think fits a need that he might pass on to get better talent. It'll be frustrating at the time, but the idea is that there's so much turnover that it all works out. You build the foundation with the draft, and fill in the gaps with FA, not vice versa.

B) A lot of times analysts will freak out that he 'reached' for a guy who they don't think has talent to justify the draft position. Everyone claimed this about Mayo last year, and he only ended up winning DROY. That's basically because Pioli doesn't give a shit where the journalists and Mel Kipers of the world rate someone- he's basing everything on a system-specific criteria that may not have a whole lot in common with what others are using.

Come draft time, I'm sure a bunch of people are going to freak out for both of these reasons. You'll see a lot of "He reached for Soandso!" and "But soandso could have filled a need, but he took someone else at another position that we don't need!" posts. Just ignore that crap, the guy knows what he's doing.

The best part is that, down the line, you'll get to look back at ridiculous quotes like this and laugh:

"On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.

- Ron Borges, MSNBC after 2001 Draft."
ROFL

EDIT:

ROFL @ the Borges quote. Liked your take on Pioli's draft strategy.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:16 PM
I don't see us going WR or LB look at the Patriots they never used high picks on those positions till recently....

DL however..plus if they're going 3-4 we got no one to play nose.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:16 PM
I could live with that. But what do we do with Dorsey? Trade him? Try him out at DE?

If they're playing 3-4 Dorsey can't play over nose and is pretty much a non factor.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 06:17 PM
I don't see us going WR or LB look at the Patriots they never used high picks on those positions till recently....

DL however..plus if they're going 3-4 we got no one to play nose.

Tyler is a possibility. Who knows what Pioli thinks of him.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:17 PM
I was afraid of this. Good-bye to our 1st pick last year.......

I obviously haven't watched Dorsey as much as you guys have, but from what I have seen and read in scouting reports, I don't see why he couldn't be a pretty effective 1-gap DE in a 3-4.

eazyb81
02-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I obviously haven't watched Dorsey as much as you guys have, but from what I have seen and read in scouting reports, I don't see why he couldn't be a pretty effective 1-gap DE in a 3-4.

Don't the Pats run a Fairbanks-Bullough version of the 3-4? That is a 2 gap system.

Kyle DeLexus
02-28-2009, 06:18 PM
I'd rather have Heyward-Bey than Crabtree.

this most def

KC kid
02-28-2009, 06:18 PM
We have a lot of needs on defense to go offense like everyone seems to want to do

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
I don't see us going WR or LB look at the Patriots they never used high picks on those positions till recently....

DL however..plus if they're going 3-4 we got no one to play nose.

All 3 of the Pats' starting dlinemen were first round picks, so that is a good place to look if you think they're going to try to emulate the Pats' 3-4. What's to say that they aren't trying to institute more of an Arizona-style 3-4 though? Seems to me like Haley would have more say than Pioli, and Vrabel could be very effective in either scheme.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
Don't the Pats run a Fairbanks-Bullough version of the 3-4? That is a 2 gap system.

Yea the Pats are 2 gap, I wouldn't be surprised if they don't give a shit about Dorsey it wouldn't be the first team that took a high pick from the past regime and flushed him.

ChiefGator
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
"On a day when they could have had impact players David Terrell or Koren Robinson or the second-best tackle in the draft in Kenyatta Walker, they took Georgia defensive tackle Richard Seymour, who had 1 sacks last season in the pass-happy SEC and is too tall to play tackle at 6-6 and too slow to play defensive end. This genius move was followed by trading out of a spot where they could have gotten the last decent receiver in Robert Ferguson and settled for tackle Matt Light, who will not help any time soon.

- Ron Borges, MSNBC after 2001 Draft."

Yeah, good take.. and awesome quote...

Bwana
02-28-2009, 06:19 PM
BOOM!!

SPATCH
02-28-2009, 06:20 PM
maclin > crabtree

... in the chiefs' case at least

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:23 PM
Don't the Pats run a Fairbanks-Bullough version of the 3-4? That is a 2 gap system.

Primarily, yeah, but they also drafted talent specifically for that scheme. The Pats mostly ran 4-3 during Belichick's first year, because that's what their talent was best-suited for. If Dorsey's best-suited to 1-gap, and isn't very effective in 2-gap, then I really doubt that they'll try to shove a square peg into a round hole. Every scheme's goal should be to maximize the utility of the players that you have.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:24 PM
It'll be fun when Dorsey gets traded.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:25 PM
It'll be fun when Dorsey gets traded.

That's the other option. Trade him and replace him with a 2-gap DE. Would that be so bad? Seems like a lot of 4-3 teams would give up quite a bit for him- it's hard to begrudge him not being great for one year under Herm Edwards on a 2-14 team.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:26 PM
That's the other option. Trade him and replace him with a 2-gap DE. Would that be so bad? Seems like a lot of 4-3 teams would give up quite a bit for him- it's hard to begrudge him not being great for one year under Herm Edwards on a 2-14 team.

If it works out no but it's gonna flip some people out...new regimes flushing high picks from the past regime isn't something new...

All I know is this isn't what I'd have done so I'll see how this plays out.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 06:27 PM
It'll be fun when Dorsey gets traded.

If we can get a top 10 pick for him I wouldnt be sad.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:28 PM
If we can get a top 10 pick for him I wouldnt be sad.

I doubt we'd get anything close to that all the cover 2 teams are moving away Colts and Tampa are both changing out of the scheme, the cover 2 is basically dead.

kcchiefsus
02-28-2009, 06:29 PM
Okay, I'll throw one to you...

See the guy in your signature, he's an elite pass catcher. Bowe is pretty darn good. What is two things they both lack? Speed and quickness. Crabtree doesn't provide either of those. Not a good fit. It's also the reason you can't compare Crabtree to any of the Patriots top WRs last year.

Boldin and Fitzgerald both timed in the 4.5-4.6 range.

Just sayin

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:29 PM
If it works out no but it's gonna flip some people out...new regimes flushing high picks from the past regime isn't something new...

All I know is this isn't what I'd have done so I'll see how this plays out.

Do you know what variation of the 3-4 the Cardinals use? Seems like Haley could be bringing that over, and maybe Dorsey could play a Dockett-type role. Dockett does have a significant height advantage, but he's not a huge guy either, and is relied on a lot to disrupt, get into the backfield, and get some sacks. I don't know much about him, so I'm guessing here, but from that description it sounds like he's more of a 1-gap type.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:30 PM
Boldin and Fitzgerald both timed in the 4.5-4.6 range.

Just sayin

Crabtree just doesn't have their skill sets, if anything he's closer to Peter Warrick than he is those guys.

Idahojim
02-28-2009, 06:31 PM
I could go with Maclin (great speed and special teams presence), best offensive tackle available or Curry. Any of those players would bring major upgrades to the Chiefs. My guess is that it will be an offensive player given that Haley is the head coach and wants to install his system.

Granted the defense wasn't much last year, but a few more points on the board and it would have been a different season. And I think Haley is going to fix first that with which he is comfortable.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:31 PM
Do you know what variation of the 3-4 the Cardinals use? Seems like Haley could be bringing that over, and maybe Dorsey could play a Dockett-type role. Dockett does have a significant height advantage, but he's not a huge guy either, and is relied on a lot to disrupt, get into the backfield, and get some sacks. I don't know much about him, so I'm guessing here, but from that description it sounds like he's more of a 1-gap type.

Difference is for his weight Dockett is one of the strongest guys in the league have you looked at him?

FD
02-28-2009, 06:32 PM
Whether we take him or not, Haley should dish up some choice quotes on how Crabtree reminds him of fitzgerald to improve our trade down chances.

el borracho
02-28-2009, 06:32 PM
It'll be fun when Dorsey gets traded.

Wouldn't freak me out at all, assuming we got something fair in trade.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
Difference is for his weight Dockett is one of the strongest guys in the league have you looked at him?

Yeah, the guy's a freak. But Dorsey is also known for his explosiveness, and in college weighed about 30 pounds more than Dockett does now, so I'd think he'd be able to have at least comparable strength if he puts some weight back on.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 06:33 PM
I doubt we'd get anything close to that all the cover 2 teams are moving away Colts and Tampa are both changing out of the scheme, the cover 2 is basically dead.

What does the cover 2 have to do with Dorsey? There are plenty of 4-3 teams that could use a young stud DT.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:34 PM
Look if Calvin Johnson was the WR in this draft I'd be all for taking him, but no WR is that.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:37 PM
What does the cover 2 have to do with Dorsey? There are plenty of 4-3 teams that could use a young stud DT.

He's an undersized DT where most of the league has gone to the "huge" DT.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 06:38 PM
Yeah, the guy's a freak. But Dorsey is also known for his explosiveness, and in college weighed about 30 pounds more than Dockett does now, so I'd think he'd be able to have at least comparable strength if he puts some weight back on.

Several people believed that Dorsey was already playing at about 320 last year b/c of the coaches and that it drastically affected his quickness and penetration...well that and being put out of position.

Hoover
02-28-2009, 06:42 PM
Why use #3 on a WR when you have enough money to sign a guy like TK Houshmanzhada (SP?). Thats a hole we can fill in FA if you ask me.

$3 is probably going to be a DE or BPA. i wouldn't be surprised if they take an OT. I know, I know. Just saying

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 06:42 PM
He's an undersized DT where most of the league has gone to the "huge" DT.

Ok, but I still dont see what that has to do with a team's defensive shell. Just because the cover 2 is dying it doesnt mean the 4-3 is. I think Dorsey can still be a great player in the 4-3 and there are probably several teams that would give up their 1st rounder for him.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:46 PM
Ok, but I still dont see what that has to do with a team's defensive shell. Just because the cover 2 is dying it doesnt mean the 4-3 is. I think Dorsey can still be a great player in the 4-3 and there are probably several teams that would give up their 1st rounder for him.

Call Buffalo you might get their 2 that's probably best case scenario.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Call Buffalo you might get their 2 that's probably best case scenario.

I would be pretty pissed if we traded last year's #5 overall for a 2nd rounder. I think we would be better off trying him at DE.

notorious
02-28-2009, 06:48 PM
Is Dorsey too small to work in the 3-4? I'm am not being a smart-ass, I'm just needing a little educating on DT's.

From what I understand a 3-4 DT basically takes on as many blockers as he can so that the linebackers can do their thing.

SPATCH
02-28-2009, 06:49 PM
Why use #3 on a WR when you have enough money to sign a guy like TK Houshmanzhada (SP?). Thats a hole we can fill in FA if you ask me.

$3 is probably going to be a DE or BPA. i wouldn't be surprised if they take an OT. I know, I know. Just saying

lolz

Mecca
02-28-2009, 06:50 PM
Is Dorsey too small to work in the 3-4? I'm am not being a smart-ass, I'm just needing a little educating on DT's.

From what I understand a 3-4 DT basically takes on as many blockers as he can so that the linebackers can do their thing.

He in no way can play nose in it and he isn't built like the ends are he's much shorter and less athletic.

ChiefGator
02-28-2009, 06:51 PM
Boldin and Fitzgerald both timed in the 4.5-4.6 range.

Just sayin

He's not as quick as Fitzgerald though. I think we already have our Boldin in Bowe, if he pulls it all together, and I think Haley will help with that. I just can't compare Crabtree to Fitzgerald and connect the dots.

And, again, we already have TG for the next couple years (which the Cards didn't have), which makes the need for a speed/quick guy in the mold of Wes Welker even greater.

Why use #3 on a WR when you have enough money to sign a guy like TK Houshmanzhada (SP?).

That's actually what the back of his jersey says I think "TK Houshmanzhada (SP?)"

notorious
02-28-2009, 06:52 PM
He in no way can play nose in it and he isn't built like the ends are he's much shorter and less athletic.

Thanks Mecca.

Gravedigger
02-28-2009, 06:54 PM
I think we have alot more holes on defense and offense to take a WR at this point, overloading the talent that Casell has to throw to shouldn't be be our first objective.

Joe Seahawk
02-28-2009, 06:59 PM
Pioli is not going to take a slow, short WR at the #3 pick in his first draft.


Yep, Crabtree is slow and short, hell he's a full 1-1/4 inches shorter than Larry fitzgerald, you guys do not want him at all. :evil:

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:00 PM
Yep, Crabtree is slow and short, hell he's a full 1-1/2 inches shorter than Larry fitzgerald, you guys do not want him at all. :evil:

Lets trade...we'll swap picks for your 2 son.

Also you guys should just sign Houshmanzadeh and draft something else, since he's from that area.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:03 PM
That would be nice if a former division opponent took that bullet. ROFL

chiefs1111
02-28-2009, 07:04 PM
Lets trade...we'll swap picks for your 2 son.

Also you guys should just sign Houshmanzadeh and draft something else, since he's from that area.

I think Housh may end up with the Vikings when it's all said and done. However I just seen on espn a while ago he is now going to visit Tampa to so well see

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:05 PM
Well Tampa has the cash.

Joe Seahawk
02-28-2009, 07:06 PM
Lets trade...we'll swap picks for your 2 son.

Also you guys should just sign Houshmanzadeh and draft something else, since he's from that area.

If we don't sign Housh, I definitely would like to draft Crabtree, no go on that trade.. ROFL

You bastards are always drafting before us.. :)

Mr. Krab
02-28-2009, 07:06 PM
I was afraid of this. Good-bye to our 1st pick last year.......
no ... Glenn Dorsey is just fine as a RDE in a 3-4 defense.

On the right side, an OLB is going to be moving up to his outside almost making Dorsey a 3 technique DT.

chiefs1111
02-28-2009, 07:07 PM
Well Tampa has the cash.

Yup though I still wonder what they are going to do about their QB situation though, I really don't see Luke McCown being the answer lol.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:08 PM
no ... Glenn Dorsey is just fine as a RDE in a 3-4 defense.

On the right side, an OLB is going to be moving up to his outside almost making Dorsey a 3 technique DT.

O'Really? I would love to believe this, but a lot of people disagree.

wild1
02-28-2009, 07:09 PM
i dont want to spend a high first round pick on someone with questions about his foot speed and questions about a foot injury

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:10 PM
i dont want to spend a high first round pick on someone with questions about his foot speed and questions about a foot injury

I would also add that he came from a stat-happy college spread offense.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:11 PM
O'Really? I would love to believe this, but a lot of people disagree.

It's really questionable most 3-4 ends are like Tyson Jackson, or Olshanksky and so forth.

Guys who are in the 6'5 6'6 area and around 300lbs.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:13 PM
Guys who are in the 6'5 6'6 area and around 300lbs.

Jesus, are you describing a man or a mountain?! J/K

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:14 PM
Jesus, are you describing a man or a mountain?! J/K

That's one of the shitty things about going 3-4 it requires a bunch of specialized personnel.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:16 PM
no ... Glenn Dorsey is just fine as a RDE in a 3-4 defense.

On the right side, an OLB is going to be moving up to his outside almost making Dorsey a 3 technique DT.

No. He will be a five technique unless he shades inside off the guard.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:18 PM
What worries me about the 3-4 is that we are trying to copy what Pittsburg has been doing and what Buddy Ryan's Defenses did in the 90's.

Whenever you are the copycat (mmm cover 2) you are too late. Offenses have already evolved/adapted to counter you.

A lot of teams are going after 3-4 personnel now, also. That make them harder to come by. Pittsburgh and NE almost had exclusive rights to the "Tweeners" to the point they could get their guys in the middle rounds.

Just my thoughts.

FRCDFED
02-28-2009, 07:20 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if E. Monroe or A. Curry were our pick at #3. Both seemed prepared to do well at the next level.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:21 PM
What worries me about the 3-4 is that we are trying to copy what Pittsburg has been doing and what Buddy Ryan's Defenses did in the 90's.

Whenever you are the copycat (mmm cover 2) you are too late. Offenses have already evolved/adapted to counter you.

A lot of teams are going after 3-4 personnel now, also. That make them harder to come by. Pittsburgh and NE almost had exclusive rights to the "Tweeners" to the point they could get their guys in the middle rounds.

Just my thoughts.

I really don't want to think about this. It just makes me sad.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 07:21 PM
No Thank You

I'd rather have the best Defensive player in the draft now

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:23 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if E. Monroe or A. Curry were our pick at #3. Both seemed prepared to do well at the next level.

Honestly we are to the point where there isn't going to be a whole lot worth a #3 pick left. Using the 3rd a SS LB would be nuts, but WTF else is there?

FRCDFED
02-28-2009, 07:28 PM
Honestly we are to the point where there isn't going to be a whole lot worth a #3 pick left. Using the 3rd a SS LB would be nuts, but WTF else is there?

II would love to see OT Monroe starting opposite Alberts. If he was so good at the college level for Alberts to get shifted to guard then I have visions of those two mauling people at the next level. It seems that when you pair former teammates together they become very competitive with each other and are driven to excel.

It would be nice to start thinking our OL could punish the defense for the next 7 - 10 years.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:28 PM
I really don't want to think about this. It just makes me sad.

I would still like to know your insight on the subject. You have some pretty good football knowledge.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:30 PM
You don't take RTs in the 3rd round...

And the 4-3 3-4 is about half and half.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 07:30 PM
no ... Glenn Dorsey is just fine as a RDE in a 3-4 defense.

On the right side, an OLB is going to be moving up to his outside almost making Dorsey a 3 technique DT.

Yeah, that would definitely be the best way to scheme to maximize his talents. The only problem with that is that a major advantage of the 3-4 is that you don't have to blitz to create unpredictable pressure: even when you rush four, they don't know where the fourth is coming from. This is part of why the Pats' pass-rush has been un-intimidating for the last couple of years; Bruschi can't blitz anymore, and we could never get Thomas and Vrabel healthy at the same time. Back in 03/04, the pass rush could come from Bruschi, Colvin, or McGinest- the offense had no idea, and because of that they didn't have to blitz much to bring consistent pressure.

If you're bringing the ROLB every time, you lose that.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:36 PM
I would still like to know your insight on the subject. You have some pretty good football knowledge.

I completely agree.

I'm on record as saying that schemes don't win, players do.

Baltimore had a dominant D as both a 4-3 and a 3-4. The Giants and Eagles are great 4-3 Ds, Pitt has a badass 3-4 D. It's all about the players and knowing how to use them.

Dorsey's best fit is a 1 gap penetrator in a 4-3. He's too short to play end in a 4-3. He'll get gobbled up.

Couple that with the difficulty in finding a NT for the scheme (usually 5 decent ones or less in the NFL) and two 260 lb. backers who can run 4.6-4.7, rush the passer, cover TE's and backs, and have long arms, and it's exceedingly difficult to find personnel for that scheme.

We don't have a lot of talent here. But what little talent (and large investment) that we do fits much better in a 4-3.

This could be a good D if we'd just add a good RDE, two decent backers, and a 340 NT to play next to Dorsey. Hell, the only reason we were so bad last year is because our players didn't fit the scheme. It's gonna be the same shit next year.

FRCDFED
02-28-2009, 07:36 PM
You don't take RTs in the 3rd round...

And the 4-3 3-4 is about half and half.I assume you meant with the 3rd pick.

Hell, move Alberts to left guard and put Monroe beside him. The left side of the line could collapse the defense. I just want some football players on this team making biotches out of the defense!

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:38 PM
I assume you meant with the 3rd pick.

Hell, move Alberts to left guard and put Monroe beside him. The left side of the line could collapse the defense. I just want some football players on this team making biotches out of the defense!

Actually I did..

And if you do that you're putting a 1st round pick at guard which is even worse than a RT.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:40 PM
Mecca, do you have a generic draft value chart you can copy and paste every time a person suggests we should draft a guard or RT at 3?

FRCDFED
02-28-2009, 07:40 PM
Actually I did..

And if you do that you're putting a 1st round pick at guard which is even worse than a RT.I know people would explode if we put a former 1st rounder at Guard but there are many 1st rounders that don't even make it in the NFL. At least we would have two beasts! I don't care where they play as long as they are gamers!

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:41 PM
I really wish I could have a chart of that but I don't..

You're taking a top 15 pick and put him at one of the least valuable positions on the field, it's not smart.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Yeah, that would definitely be the best way to scheme to maximize his talents. The only problem with that is that a major advantage of the 3-4 is that you don't have to blitz to create unpredictable pressure: even when you rush four, they don't know where the fourth is coming from. This is part of why the Pats' pass-rush has been un-intimidating for the last couple of years; Bruschi can't blitz anymore, and we could never get Thomas and Vrabel healthy at the same time. Back in 03/04, the pass rush could come from Bruschi, Colvin, or McGinest- the offense had no idea, and because of that they didn't have to blitz much to bring consistent pressure.

If you're bringing the ROLB every time, you lose that.

Well "blitz" is a malleable term. We could just as easily be a 4-3 zone blitz team and accomplish the same thing if we had athletic ends that could drop.

The 3-4 is a natural response to the increase in passing, just as it was after they loosened up holding in the 70's. Pretty soon enough teams will start running it that talent will become scarce and they are going to just get run over because it's harder for guys to hold multiple gaps at the line of attack.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 07:45 PM
Well "blitz" is a malleable term. We could just as easily be a 4-3 zone blitz team and accomplish the same thing if we had athletic ends that could drop.

The 3-4 is a natural response to the increase in passing, just as it was after they loosened up holding in the 70's. Pretty soon enough teams will start running it that talent will become scarce and they are going to just get run over because it's harder for guys to hold multiple gaps at the line of attack.

I'd generally agree with that- it does worry me a lot that the Pats could grab a guy like Wilfork in the mid-first round a few years ago, but he'd probably be a top 10 pick now. In my post, I was referring to a blitz, in general, as bringing more than 4 rushers. The idea with the 3-4 is that you can bring 4 without being predictable at all. Sure, you can do the same in a 4-3 with a DE who excels at coverage, but they're not exactly easy to find either (same general principle as a 3-4 OLB, really).

Pittsburgh and NE were running 3-4s before the league went all pass-happy, as well, and both have historically had good run defenses, but, like you said, that's because they could pretty much split the 2-gap defensive linemen and natural 3-4 LBs between them. That's not the case anymore, and makes me hope more college teams are going to start going 3-4.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
Here on CP we have been over it so many times I figured someone would have a chart stating positional value. I guess they will just have to search for one of the 5,000 threads and read over it instead LOL.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 07:46 PM
That's the other option. Trade him and replace him with a 2-gap DE. Would that be so bad? Seems like a lot of 4-3 teams would give up quite a bit for him- it's hard to begrudge him not being great for one year under Herm Edwards on a 2-14 team.

Yeah. I'd love to trade away the best player in last year's draft class that we got entirely fucking lucky to get in the first place. Brilliant.

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Crabtree would be huge for Matt to throw to.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 07:47 PM
Not It's not unprecedented to have a first-rounder at guard. The Patriots have a 1st rounder there (Logan Mankins), although that's what he was drafted to play. Look what happened to Shaun Alexander when Steve Hutchinson left Minnesota- guards were solidly overrated for about one offseason a few years back, but the value seems about right for them now. There's nothing inherently wrong with using a 1st rounder at guard, although top 15 is definitely a stretch.

Logan Mankins was the last pick of the 1st round and no other lineman on the Patriots are that high of a pick, it's a different scenario.

notorious
02-28-2009, 07:49 PM
Well "blitz" is a malleable term. We could just as easily be a 4-3 zone blitz team and accomplish the same thing if we had athletic ends that could drop.

The 3-4 is a natural response to the increase in passing, just as it was after they loosened up holding in the 70's. Pretty soon enough teams will start running it that talent will become scarce and they are going to just get run over because it's harder for guys to hold multiple gaps at the line of attack.

Thanks Hamas. The game is a revolving wheel. Old schemes become new and new schemes will become obsolete. If you are the team setting the trend, you will probably end up being highly successful. If you catch it on back side, you will get torched, ala cover 2.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 07:52 PM
Thanks Hamas. The game is a revolving wheel. Old schemes become new and new schemes will become obsolete. If you are the team setting the trend, you will probably end up being highly successful. If you catch it on back side, you will get torched, ala cover 2.

That's why I'm on the side of just run a goddamned 4-3. It's simple, easy, and if you have the players, it's a great defense.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Logan Mankins was the last pick of the 1st round and no other lineman on the Patriots are that high of a pick, it's a different scenario.

definitely, and I don't disagree with you at all in this situation. Just pointing out that 1st rounder for a guard isn't entirely unprecedented (although it is pretty dumb if the guy can play tackle. Most people have to fail as a tackle before you make them a guard).

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 07:53 PM
Crabtree isn't Fitzgerald, or Boldin...or hell, even Bowe....
how the fuck do you know that?

He isn't the sure thing most people thought he was because he's smaller and there are concerns about route running because of the offense he was in...but for all we know, he's a great route runner with great hands and might even turn out to be the next Larry Fitzgerald?

There are ???...but to say this because of a stress fracture and because he's an inch shorter than what people expected is plain idiotic.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 07:56 PM
He's an undersized DT where most of the league has gone to the "huge" DT.

I'm sorry...a guy that is considered the top player in the draft from a year ago doesn't just suddenly become irrelevant to the NFL after one year...

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 07:58 PM
I'm sorry...a guy that is considered the top player in the draft from a year ago doesn't just suddenly become irrelevant to the NFL after one year...

Especially when over half of the teams in the league still run 4-3s. (is it down to half yet? Seems like another couple switch over every year. Any chance the Ravens are switching back anytime soon?)

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 08:01 PM
as soon as a player becomes a Chief he's never worth anything according to mecca...

Now that Dorsey had one year where he didn't live up to the hype, he's suddenly irrelevant and has no value in the NFL whatsoever...

It's always the same shit with that guy.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:03 PM
That's why I'm on the side of just run a goddamned 4-3. It's simple, easy, and if you have the players, it's a great defense.

I agree. It has worked for decades when you have talent and an aggressive D-Coordinator and Head Coach.

LOL at first I thought I was going to get one of your signature "kill yourself" posts when I read your reply to my thoughts.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:04 PM
I agree. It has worked for decades when you have talent and an aggressive D-Coordinator and Head Coach.

LOL at first I thought I was going to get one of your signature "kill yourself" posts when I read your reply to my thoughts.

has anyone actually comfirmed that we are switching?

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:05 PM
Nope. Just speculation like always.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 08:06 PM
has anyone actually comfirmed that we are switching?

Getting Vrabel would definitely seem to indicate it. He's extremely versatile, though, and could probably be a third-down DE.

'Hamas' Jenkins
02-28-2009, 08:14 PM
how the fuck do you know that?

He isn't the sure thing most people thought he was because he's smaller and there are concerns about route running because of the offense he was in...but for all we know, he's a great route runner with great hands and might even turn out to be the next Larry Fitzgerald?

There are ???...but to say this because of a stress fracture and because he's an inch shorter than what people expected is plain idiotic.

Larry Fitzgerald spent his entire life running routes and had his own juggs machine. He played in a pro style offense and was insanely productive with a shit QB. He's also sneaky fast and bigger than Crabtree with the best hands in the NFL.

Crabtree was a high school QB who has run nothing but digs, 9s, bubble screens, and crossing routes. He's two inches shorter than expected, has legitimate speed questions, lacks Fitzgerald's leaping ability, has good hands, but they are not elite.

There is no comparison between those two.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:19 PM
Larry Fitzgerald spent his entire life running routes and had his own juggs machine. He played in a pro style offense and was insanely productive with a shit QB. He's also sneaky fast and bigger than Crabtree with the best hands in the NFL.

Crabtree was a high school QB who has run nothing but digs, 9s, bubble screens, and crossing routes. He's two inches shorter than expected, has legitimate speed questions, lacks Fitzgerald's leaping ability, has good hands, but they are not elite.

There is no comparison between those two.

Not to mention he was a ball-boy for the Vikings. Not only is he physically gifted, he was groomed to be what he is today, and saw exactly what it took to be great.

Dennis Green has stated many times that Fitzgerald had just as good/better hands than the Viking receivers when he was still a young pup.

FD
02-28-2009, 08:21 PM
Getting Vrabel would definitely seem to indicate it. He's extremely versatile, though, and could probably be a third-down DE.

Maybe we got him to line up TE so we can trade Gonzo.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:22 PM
I think Hootie has a persecution complex....

But either way no WR in this class is worth a top 5 pick.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:24 PM
Considering our defensive line needs to be blown the fuck up. And our LB's are almost as bad I'd be pissed if we took a WR at #3.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 08:25 PM
Larry Fitzgerald spent his entire life running routes and had his own juggs machine. He played in a pro style offense and was insanely productive with a shit QB. He's also sneaky fast and bigger than Crabtree with the best hands in the NFL.

Crabtree was a high school QB who has run nothing but digs, 9s, bubble screens, and crossing routes. He's two inches shorter than expected, has legitimate speed questions, lacks Fitzgerald's leaping ability, has good hands, but they are not elite.

There is no comparison between those two.

Ok, sure, I believe all that...

But the post I quoted was way too extreme...no one has any idea of what kind of NFL prospect Crabtree is because of everything you just listed...who's to say he won't be an elite NFL WR? He's just not the sure thing everyone predicted while he was at Texas Tech...you know he is still going top 15.

Mr. Krab
02-28-2009, 08:25 PM
No. He will be a five technique unless he shades inside off the guard.
i disagree

A 5 is basically a defensive end but in a 3-4 defense the RDE generally slides in over the guard or over the guard's outside shoulder. This is a 3-ish technique

of course, teams mixed it up but they still generally line up with an OLB as their RDE. To make it more unpredictable they will zone blitz to make sure the offense doesn't know where the main pass rush is coming from that's why it is so important to have a really good OLB who can rush the passer, hold outside contain as a RDE or drop into coverage.

The RDE in a 3-4 defense is really just a penetrating type defensive tackle. Which is what Dorsey was in college because he works better in space.

Can he do it?

we don't know but i pretty sure that's what the Chiefs hope he can do.

We still are gonna need a true Nose Tackle.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Crabtree would be a good pick for Seattle.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 08:26 PM
I think Hootie has a persecution complex....

But either way no WR in this class is worth a top 5 pick.

I'm not disagreeing...the pile on this board has on Crabtree is ridiculous, though. He's going to be a good WR...I bet he's better than your boy Heyward-Bey.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:26 PM
Considering our defensive line needs to be blown the **** up. And our LB's are almost as bad I'd be pissed if we took a WR at #3.

We had a defensive line last year?! Damn, I might have to re-watch the games.

Pioli Zombie
02-28-2009, 08:26 PM
You guys......Crabtree is a slow average sized WR from the spread with a broken foot...

If they're hell bent on running the 3-4 plus the history of where the Pats used a ton of 1st round picks don't be surprised if Raji is the target.

You know Mecca I think you are dead on with this. Warren. Seymour. Wilfork. BB and Pioli are firm believers in drafting defensive linemen and bringing in veteran LBs because in the schemes they believe they value experience and intelligence in their LBs. Mayo was an exception.

I think Raji will be the guy now and they will fill LB thru free agency
Posted via Mobile Device

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 08:27 PM
i disagree

A 5 is basically a defensive end but in a 3-4 defense the RDE generally slides in over the guard or over the guard's outside shoulder. This is a 3-ish technique

of course, teams mixed it up but they still generally line up with an OLB as their RDE. To make it more unpredictable they will zone blitz to make sure the offense doesn't know where the main pass rush is coming from that's why it is so important to have a really good OLB who can rush the passer, hold outside contain as a RDE or drop into coverage.

The RDE in a 3-4 defense is really just a penetrating type defensive tackle. Which is what Dorsey was in college because he works better in space.

Can he do it?

we don't know but i pretty sure that's what the Chiefs hope he can do.

We still are gonna need a true Nose Tackle.

Watch out, man! Disagreeing with a drafturbator is a class A felony on this board!

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:27 PM
I'm not disagreeing...the pile on this board has on Crabtree is ridiculous, though. He's going to be a good WR...I bet he's better than your boy Heyward-Bey.

Is he worth the 3rd though? That is where I get up in arms.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:28 PM
We had a defensive line last year?! Damn, I might have to re-watch the games.

Many times I wanted to jam a fork in my eye watching that crap excuse for a line.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:28 PM
I'm not disagreeing...the pile on this board has on Crabtree is ridiculous, though. He's going to be a good WR...I bet he's better than your boy Heyward-Bey.

I don't think ever said Crabtree was awful he just has to many flags to be taken top 5...Heyward-Bey is more gifted and comes from a pro style offense...so we'll see.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:31 PM
But either way no WR in this class is worth a top 5 pick.

This. If we draft anything other than defense I will be pretty upset. Maybe an OT but I would much rather go for Raji, Curry, or Orakpo.

Mr. Krab
02-28-2009, 08:32 PM
Watch out, man! Disagreeing with a drafturbator is a class A felony on this board!
forgive me for i know not what i do

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:33 PM
This. If we draft anything other than defense I will be pretty upset. Maybe an OT but I would much rather go for Raji, Curry, or Orakpo.

Ew Orakpo, that'd make me wanna stab myself.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:33 PM
I don't think ever said Crabtree was awful he just has to many flags to be taken top 5...Heyward-Bey is more gifted and comes from a pro style offense...so we'll see.

Heyward-Bey could also be compared to a smaller Charles Rogers. Just being devil's advocate.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:34 PM
Heyward-Bey could also be compared to a smaller Charles Rogers. Just being devil's advocate.

Well provided he's not high on crack that's not bad.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Well provided he's not high on crack that's not bad.

ROFL haaaaa!!!! That's a good start!

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:36 PM
Ew Orakpo, that'd make me wanna stab myself.

Why? Dude won the Lombardi Award and the Nagurski Trophy (sp?) this season. Have you watched him play? I wouldnt be too upset with Aaron Maybin either but he would probably be a bit of a reach.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:37 PM
Why? Dude won the Lombardi Award and the Nagurski Trophy (sp?) this season. Have you watched him play? I wouldnt be too upset with Aaron Maybin either but he would probably be a bit of a reach.

I watched Orakpo be Ohio States bitch.....

None of these pass rushers are all that top notch.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:38 PM
I watched Orakpo be Ohio States bitch.....

None of these pass rushers are all that top notch.

You always talk about who you dont want. Who do you think we should take? (if Sanchez is gone and we cant trade down)

BTW - I watched Dwight Freeney be Willie Roaf's bitch too, doesnt mean he sucks.

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:41 PM
Physically gifted DE that disappears during games. It's a little scary how those guys turn out in the NFL.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:43 PM
Physically gifted DE that disappears during games. It's a little scary how those guys turn out in the NFL.

Well since the WR's arent very promising (imo) the only players worth the #3 pick to me would have to be D-lineman. Im getting used to the idea of Raji, but if not him then it would have to be a DE. Are there any better than Orakpo?

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 08:44 PM
OrakNO

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:45 PM
I'd take a fucking OT before I took Orakpo.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:45 PM
I'd take a ****ing OT before I took Orakpo.

Are you going to answer my question?

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:46 PM
I'd take a fucking OT before I took Orakpo.

ROFLROFL thats tells everyone exactly what you think of orakpo in no uncertain terms

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:48 PM
Are you going to answer my question?

i honestly wanted to know too, IMO he wont say because if hes wrong some people will use it for years. he's kind of brought that on himself though. i genuinely wanted to know not to come back later and say he was wrong

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:48 PM
Are you going to answer my question?

I'd take anyone before I took Orakpo that guy flashes bust to me, he is everything that would make me take a player completely off my board.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:49 PM
ROFLROFL thats tells everyone exactly what you think of orakpo in no uncertain terms

Thats fine, its easy to shoot down everyone elses ideas. I want to know who Mecca wants.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:49 PM
I'd take anyone before I took Orakpo that guy flashes bust to me, he is everything that would make me take a player completely off my board.
Still tap dancing around the question.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:49 PM
Thats fine, its easy to shoot down everyone elses ideas. I want to know who Mecca wants.

post 143 sums that up for you IMO

notorious
02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Tell us what you really think about Orakpo, Mecca. ROFL

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:50 PM
Are we going 3-4....just give me a definite answer and then I'll tell you.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:51 PM
I guess if we are in fact going to a 3-4 I'll be hoping for Raji, if not I guess Curry even though I think thats too high for a LB.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:51 PM
Are we going 3-4....just give me a definite answer and then I'll tell you.

give 2 picks one for the 4-3 one for the 3-4. that will stop the haters later. and its early everything is fluid right now

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:52 PM
Are we going 3-4....just give me a definite answer and then I'll tell you.

Lets say no since I already know your answer if we go to a 3-4. :)

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:52 PM
BJ Raji is the likely pick now if it's for certain we are 3-4...best case scenario would be to hope someone who's picking between 4-7 would be enamored enough to move up, but it's unlikely.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:53 PM
BJ Raji is the likely pick now if it's for certain we are 3-4...best case scenario would be to hope someone who's picking between 4-7 would be enamored enough to move up, but it's unlikely.

thanks what about if we stay 4-3?

ncCHIEFfan
02-28-2009, 08:54 PM
Just woundering, where is the Sanchez signature?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:56 PM
thanks what about if we stay 4-3?

Then we're pretty much stuck because none of those players have great value to us.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:56 PM
What about Everette Brown?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:56 PM
What about Everette Brown?

He's more of a 10-15 guy, basically none of the pass rushers should go before 10.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Then we're pretty much stuck because none of those players have great value to us.

So you're going to lose out on the pick because you took too long? C'mon Mecca, humor me.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 08:57 PM
Then we're pretty much stuck because none of those players have great value to us.

my thoughts exactly.

Skip Towne
02-28-2009, 08:58 PM
BJ Raji is the likely pick now if it's for certain we are 3-4...best case scenario would be to hope someone who's picking between 4-7 would be enamored enough to move up, but it's unlikely.

It's hard to find enamored folks anymore. You gotta kiss a lot of frogs.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 08:59 PM
So you're going to lose out on the pick because you took too long? C'mon Mecca, humor me.

Then we're gonna be reaching but hey be thankful the Chiefs are likely to be going 3-4 so we won't be seriously screwed.

I think trading down in this position is hard but it's probably something they should try to get the 2 back and all of these players have similar value.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 09:01 PM
Then we're gonna be reaching but hey be thankful the Chiefs are likely to be going 3-4 so we won't be seriously screwed.

I think trading down in this position is hard but it's probably something they should try to get the 2 back and all of these players have similar value.

Fine, I'll drop it. I think deep down you want to say Curry but you dont want to admit it. :evil:

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 09:02 PM
Fine, I'll drop it. I think deep down you want to say Curry but you dont want to admit it. :evil:

that was what i was thinking too, but it's cool.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:03 PM
Fine, I'll drop it. I think deep down you want to say Curry but you dont want to admit it. :evil:

I'd probably take Monroe before I took Curry....

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 09:03 PM
:DI'd probably take Monroe before I took Curry....

aaaahhhhhh i dont believe that. :D

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:04 PM
I just don't see a non rush backer being valuable enough, if I wanted a LB that badly, I'd take less trade value and drop down get picks and take Maualuga for a 1/4th of the price and I think Maualuga is much better suited for the 3-4 than Curry is.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 09:04 PM
I'd probably take Monroe before I took Curry....

He's going to St. Louis.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 09:05 PM
I just don't see a non rush backer being valuable enough, if I wanted a LB that badly, I'd take less trade value and drop down get picks and take Maualuga for a 1/4th of the price and I think Maualuga is much better suited for the 3-4 than Curry is.

I dont think anyone will want to move up to #3.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:05 PM
He's going to St. Louis.

Jason Smith is going to St Louis.

Either one of them is still more valuable than Curry is in that slot.

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 09:09 PM
BJ Raji is the likely pick now if it's for certain we are 3-4...best case scenario would be to hope someone who's picking between 4-7 would be enamored enough to move up, but it's unlikely.

Dorsey and Raji-sounds destructive. :clap:

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:10 PM
Dorsey and Raji-sounds destructive. :clap:

Dorsey is going to suck balls in a 3-4 get ready he's our Matt Leinart.

MTG#10
02-28-2009, 09:17 PM
Dorsey is going to suck balls in a 3-4 get ready he's our Matt Leinart.

Well its possible that we go with a 3-4/4-3 hybrid defense.

EyePod
02-28-2009, 09:17 PM
point taken. dont get me wrong i really like curry as a pick too, its just the more i watch film on crabtree the more i like him. fitzgerald isnt that fast either , but the guy flat out dominates games. kid is a player, and i think hes gonna be a stud in the NFL, just my honest opinion. but your point is definitely valid as well

I agree. Don't listen to Mecca. He's a whiny little bitch, and he's just pissed off that now we won't take Sanchez.

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 09:18 PM
Dorsey is going to suck balls in a 3-4 get ready he's our Matt Leinart.

Suck worse than he has allready?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:19 PM
I agree. Don't listen to Mecca. He's a whiny little bitch, and he's just pissed off that now we won't take Sanchez.

Yea that has a hell of alot to do with Michael Crabtree and why he's not worth a top 5 pick, but hey think what you want.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:19 PM
Suck worse than he has allready?

He is not a fit for a 3-4 at all.

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 09:20 PM
I agree. Don't listen to Mecca. He's a whiny little bitch, and he's just pissed off that now we won't take Sanchez.

His draft info is accurate and offers a lot of great angles-but all you are adding is speculation and name calling.

Sit down and sut up tripod. :cuss:

HIChief
02-28-2009, 09:21 PM
Most sports journalists are, that's the point.

Mr. BradyFTW!,
Let me just say, in case no one else has, your seasoned analysis is very much welcom on this board. Most of the folks here are uninformed when it comes to the new regime. So, anything to dispell irrational conclusions and chicken-littleism is greatly appreciated.

EyePod
02-28-2009, 09:26 PM
Yea that has a hell of alot to do with Michael Crabtree and why he's not worth a top 5 pick, but hey think what you want. Slow is a stupid term for wide receivers. If they run great routes, they make up for the lack of speed. And Michael Crabtree has the "big play ability" and runs great routes. The broken foot worries me.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:28 PM
Slow is a stupid term for wide receivers. If they run great routes, they make up for the lack of speed. And Michael Crabtree has the "big play ability" and runs great routes. The broken foot worries me.

Uh, he doesn't run great routes he's from the spread. People have talked about this plenty why is it ignored he doesn't come from a normal passing tree with normal routes.

So to say his route running is great is dishonest at best.

EyePod
02-28-2009, 09:45 PM
OK, you have me there. Are you going to say that all of his touchdowns are also a product of the spread? If anything, the spread is less effective in the red zone. He had 19 TD's last year and 22 the year before. His ability to make huge plays is needed on this team. Graham Harrell is not that good and he relied on his receivers (and mostly Crabtree), especially in huge situations i.e. the Texas vs Tech game. That wasn't even a good throw that Harrell made. It was an amazing play by Crabtree when he caught it in double coverage and was able to run for the TD.

And since when is Bert from a Jonathon Swift story? I've always wondered that...

notorious
02-28-2009, 09:49 PM
I hate to bring this up again, but Rashaun Woods was an absolute badass in college with similar Crabtree-like numbers. What happened to Rashaun?

Crabtree reminds me a lot of Woods. With that kind of doubt why should we spend a 3rd pick OVERALL for him?

EyePod
02-28-2009, 09:58 PM
I hate to bring this up again, but Rashaun Woods was an absolute badass in college with similar Crabtree-like numbers. What happened to Rashaun?

Crabtree reminds me a lot of Woods. With that kind of doubt why should we spend a 3rd pick OVERALL for him?

I don't see the simliarity. Rashaun Woods had 42 touchdowns in 3 seasons. Crabtree has 41 in two. That's not even comparable.

notorious
02-28-2009, 10:05 PM
I don't see the simliarity. Rashaun Woods had 42 touchdowns in 3 seasons. Crabtree has 41 in two. That's not even comparable.

Spread vs. Run-first option offense. That is not comparable. If Rashaun had Crabtrees O he would have had even more unreal stats.

Did you watch Rashaun? Their playing style/speed is very similar.

Most of us know the rest of the story for Mr. Woods......

Pioli Zombie
02-28-2009, 10:06 PM
Raji will be the pick I believe. That would fit Piolis pattern with Belichick.

Btw, the Patriots now have #23 in the 1st and THREE second round picks. And 20 million to spend. Don't worry about the Patriots getting "screwed" in this deal. It was a great day for both teams
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BradyFTW!
03-01-2009, 02:15 AM
Mr. BradyFTW!,
Let me just say, in case no one else has, your seasoned analysis is very much welcom on this board. Most of the folks here are uninformed when it comes to the new regime. So, anything to dispell irrational conclusions and chicken-littleism is greatly appreciated.

Thank you very much, I appreciate it. Pioli's FO mentality takes a bit of getting used to, for sure, but it pays huge dividends- you guys won't regret the Chiefs hiring him. Personally, with Cassel, Pioli, and Vrabel coming here (Vrabel and Cassel are two of my favorite players) I've become something of a passive Chiefs fan, I guess. I think the Chiefs have the tools in place to be a good team that takes a lot of people by surprise next year, and I hope that it happens.

FWIW, I do think that Crabtree will be a very good player in the NFL. Worth the #3? Probably not, but if Pioli thinks that he can help the team more than anyone else at #3, then he'll get picked. Curry's a far more likely choice though, IMO. It's a lot of money for a LB, but a highly versatile ILB/OLB can make the 3/4 run. Guys like that make it extremely difficult to audible based on personnel, since you have no idea what they'll do after the snap.