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KcMizzou
02-28-2009, 09:36 PM
Did Chiefs rob Patriots with 34th pick?

February 28, 2009 2:58 PM

Posted by ESPN.com's Tim Graham

Cassel

The 34th overall selection in this year's draft sure sounds like a bargain for the Kansas City Chiefs. That's all they gave the New England Patriots to obtain quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel.

Sound a little cheap to you?

About seven weeks ago, I explored Cassel's trade value with a pair of analysts who've been around the NFL block a time or two.

Floyd Reese was one of them. The former Tennessee Titans general manager was working for ESPN at the time.

Now he's senior football adviser with the Patriots, coming aboard when Scott Pioli left to accept the Chiefs' GM job.

Here's what Reese said back then: "It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel. Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

Cassel hadn't been franchised yet, but it was common knowledge the tag was coming. So the element of unloading $14.65 million in guaranteed money was considered in the responses.

I also spoke with Michael Lombardi of the National Football Post.

Lombardi has a strong relationship with many in Patriots management, including coach Bill Belichick, from their days together with the Cleveland Browns. Lombardi was the first to report the Patriots were going to place the franchise tag on Cassel.

Lombardi claimed Cassel's starting price -- not including Vrabel -- should be the draft choices the San Diego Chargers received for Eli Manning.

At the 2004 draft, the New York Giants acquired Manning's rights for Philip Rivers' rights along with a third-round pick that year and their first- and fifth-round picks in 2005.

"Whatever the Giants gave up for Eli has to be the market," Lombardi said. "It's got to be a first-rounder, and not the 22nd or 24th pick in the draft. It has to be a substantial one and one that keeps on giving."

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-5-147/Did-Chiefs-rob-Patriots-with-34th-pick-.html

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 09:38 PM
What a steal!!!

luv
02-28-2009, 09:40 PM
Kind of makes you wonder if there won't be something more to it later.

Dave Lane
02-28-2009, 09:40 PM
34th which is basically a very low 1st seems fair but I am happy with the compensation. Now I hope we can trade down to 8-12 unless Pioli and crew see someone they love at 3 because I don't see it.

notorious
02-28-2009, 09:42 PM
Good trade for the Chiefs IMO

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:43 PM
LMAO

Belichick hooking up his boy with a starter kit for $0.60 on the $1!

I don't hate Boston as much today as I did yesterday!

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:44 PM
Projected value and actual value are 2 different things.

banyon
02-28-2009, 09:44 PM
I think where we traded for him was alright, but,

Here's what Reese said back then: "It would have to be multiple choices and very high choices to get Cassel. Two first-rounders, or a one and a two and a three ... It'll be something very, very expensive."

How in the hell would this have been a reasonable trade? I mean what did the guy do to merit this Herschel-Walker type consideration?

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:48 PM
If Matt Leinart didn't exist, who's to say Cassel wouldn't have been a top NFL prospect?

FD
02-28-2009, 09:48 PM
Is what we know a sure thing? Can we rule out a conditional pick in the future based on how Cassel performs?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:49 PM
If Matt Leinart didn't exist, who's to say Cassel wouldn't have been a top NFL prospect?

Um I dunno, I just better not ever hear some argument like "he couldn't beat out such and such" after this.

KC_Connection
02-28-2009, 09:50 PM
I don't understand why Matt Cassel would have been worth this much.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:50 PM
I do find it curious that Cassel didn't transfer after he lost out to Leinart? Maybe he started to believe he wasn't an NFL prospect?

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
He played TE and special teams after that.

Mr. Flopnuts
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Cassel will look a lot better next year if we can sign Khalif Barnes and TJ Whosyomamma.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:51 PM
I don't understand why Matt Cassel would have been worth this much.

I don't know...but it seems as if Pioli REALLY wanted him, as did McDaniels...and these are guys who coached the kid...so there must be something about this guy that screams franchise to some pretty smart people.

KcMizzou
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I do find it curious that Cassel didn't transfer after he lost out to Leinart? Maybe he started to believe he wasn't an NFL prospect?Chase Patton at Mizzou was the same way. From what I understand, he's generally thought of as a better pro prospect than Daniel... even though he hardly ever saw the field.

88TG88
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I do find it curious that Cassel didn't transfer after he lost out to Leinart? Maybe he started to believe he wasn't an NFL prospect?

He was on the baseball team. Maybe he wanted to play that ??

KC_Connection
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
I don't know...but it seems as if Pioli REALLY wanted him, as did McDaniels...and these are guys who coached the kid...so there must be something about this guy that screams franchise to some pretty smart people.

Yes...I really do hope they are right, because I'm not that sold on the guy.

unlurking
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
Um I dunno, I just better not ever hear some argument like "he couldn't beat out such and such" after this.
heh

Just put on your USC colored glasses and start dancing. You know you want to!

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JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 09:52 PM
Chase Patton at Mizzou was the same way. From what I understand, he's generally thought of as a better pro prospect than Daniel... even though he hardly ever saw the field.

oooohhhhh chase patton in the 7th or UDFA?

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:53 PM
He played TE and special teams after that.
Interesting.

Transferring surely didn't hurt Flacco...maybe Cassel loved all of the USC bitches that were lining up for him in SoCal and the bling he was collecting for holding a clipboard and playing a little ST?

I can't say I blame him...now he's learned the position from one of the best and has been a part of a great system...I'm totally ok with taking a chance on this guy...especially considering the price tag.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 09:53 PM
It's only a steal because everyone who was speculating was clueless.

As is almost always the case, such a trade doesn't depend on what a comparable player might have gotten in years past, or what his potential might appear to demand... but instead it's entirely dependent upon the market at that moment.

It's clear that no one else was willing to give more than the #34 for this pick.

I think fans and the semi-pro observers on TV have no idea what the market actually was. It doesn't matter what a former GM or a pundit thinks the market is. Only those teams looking for a QB with a cap figure to work around and 2 other QBs to consider really matter, and when there are only 2 or 3 teams making up that market, it's almost impossible to predict from the outside what the prices are going to be.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:53 PM
He was on the baseball team. Maybe he wanted to play that ??

Oh, good point. Didn't even consider that.

Mecca
02-28-2009, 09:54 PM
Well Mitch Mustain transferred there and said "even if I never play I still have experience in a pro style offense which helps me more going to the NFL than starting in the spread"

Buzz
02-28-2009, 09:54 PM
This TEAM is getting better already and we havent done shit! Clark Hunt is going to be the SHIT! And FUCK the Donk's!

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 09:54 PM
It's only a steal because everyone who was speculating was clueless.

As is almost always the case, such a trade doesn't depend on what a comparable player might have gotten in years past, or what his potential might appear to demand... but instead it's entirely dependent upon the market at that moment.

It's clear that no one else was willing to give more than the #34 for this pick.

I think fans and the semi-pro observers on TV have no idea what the market actually was. It doesn't matter what a former GM or a pundit thinks the market is. Only those teams looking for a QB with a cap figure to work around and 2 other QBs to consider really matter, and when there are only 2 or 3 teams making up that market, it's almost impossible to predict from the outside what the prices are going to be.

schefter AND mort are both saying that there was more on the table from other teams

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:55 PM
It's only a steal because everyone who was speculating was clueless.

As is almost always the case, such a trade doesn't depend on what a comparable player might have gotten in years past, or what his potential might appear to demand... but instead it's entirely dependent upon the market at that moment.

It's clear that no one else was willing to give more than the #34 for this pick.

I think fans and the semi-pro observers on TV have no idea what the market actually was. It doesn't matter what a former GM or a pundit thinks the market is. Only those teams looking for a QB with a cap figure to work around and 2 other QBs to consider really matter, and when there are only 2 or 3 teams making up that market, it's almost impossible to predict from the outside what the prices are going to be.

Is it clear? It appears as if the Patriots just wanted to get his $15M off the books and maybe Belichick felt sorry for his buddy and hooked him up with a nice little starter kit!

MAYBE this was Pioli's pick...Bill didn't really want him but it was a 7th round pick and Bill said, "what the hell Scott! Go for it!"

And since it was a Pioli pick Bill repaid him for such a great return on his investment that he hooked him up with a bargain bin deal!

I doubt any of this is the case...but come on...this certainly does seem like an NBA $0.60 on the $1 trade...

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 09:56 PM
Yep, that's my new theory.

Cassel was a Pioli project pick that really worked out so Belichick repaid Pioli for the years of service by giving him a starter kit at a high discount price!

THE DEAL IS DONE

Buzz
02-28-2009, 09:58 PM
Yep, that's my new theory.

Cassel was a Pioli project pick that really worked out so Belichick repaid Pioli for the years of service by giving him a starter kit at a high discount price!

THE DEAL IS DONE

and we fucked the Donk's even better :clap:

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:02 PM
and we ****ed the Donk's even better :clap:

It's spectacular. The Chiefs have a guy that the Broncos value more than their high 1st round pro bowl QB!

It's good to be a Chiefs fan again!

chiefscafan
02-28-2009, 10:02 PM
I think this deal was made at a discount for pioli by bill thanking him for helping with his success through the years. Gotta agree I'm not hating the pats as much as I use to.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:04 PM
I think this deal was made at a discount for pioli by bill thanking him for helping with his success through the years. Gotta agree I'm not hating the pats as much as I use to.

i started on that track when pioli said how well the krafts talked the chiefs organization up

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:04 PM
I think this deal was made at a discount for pioli by bill thanking him for helping with his success through the years. Gotta agree I'm not hating the pats as much as I use to.

It's so anti-Patriots/Belichick that it's hard to believe...BUT...#34 for both guys!? No friggin' way! Bill must really have loved Scott...because if Tampa had the #34 pick...there is no god damn way the Patriots are going to trade Cassel to them for that compensation...at least not this early...they'd wait until draft day.

L.A. Chieffan
02-28-2009, 10:05 PM
apparently there was a conditional pick involved too and who the hell knows what the conditions are? it could be something like cassel starts all 16 games and we owe them another 1st

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:06 PM
apparently there was a conditional pick involved too and who the hell knows what the conditions are? it could be something like cassel starts all 16 games and we owe them another 1st

where did you see that? every outlet is saying #34 ONLY

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:06 PM
Yesterday it was being tossed around that the Chiefs traded their 3rd rounder for Vrabel...today we find out we get Cassel and Vrabel for ONE pick, and it wasn't even our 1st round pick LMAO

I think to repay Bill Belichick, I will no longer consider Tom Brady my most hated football player...HELLO TIM TEBOW!

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:07 PM
where did you see that? every outlet is saying #34 ONLY

Nick Athan emailed him.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 10:07 PM
If it seems too good to be true in terms of value...

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:08 PM
Yesterday it was being tossed around that the Chiefs traded their 3rd rounder for Vrabel...today we find out we get Cassel and Vrabel for ONE pick, and it wasn't even our 1st round pick LMAO

I think to repay Bill Belichick, I will no longer consider Tom Brady my most hated football player...HELLO TIM TEBOW!

i'm going to have to teach my daughter that we dont "hate tom brady" anymore.ROFL

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:08 PM
I heard part of the deal is Bill Belichick is going to break down opponent's game film and come up with a defensive game plan every week for the Chiefs...

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:08 PM
Nick "Assclown" Athan emailed him.

ROFL thats the onlly one who could get that wrong.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:09 PM
schefter AND mort are both saying that there was more on the table from other teams

I guarantee that there wasn't a better deal on the table as far as New England was concerned. There might have been a different deal on the table, but New England didn't value it as much.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:09 PM
I'm going to delete my KNEECRUSHER .gif!

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:11 PM
I guarantee that there wasn't a better deal on the table as far as New England was concerned. There might have been a different deal on the table, but New England didn't value it as much.

Theory:

Cassel to Denver
Cutler to Tampa
#19 to New England

Theory:

New England already told KC they'd do the deal for #34.

Theory:

Belichick had too much respect for Pioli to back out of the offer and essentially use the Chiefs for leverage to get a better deal.

Makes sense to me.

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 10:12 PM
It's spectacular. The Chiefs have a guy that the Broncos value more than their high 1st round pro bowl QB!

It's good to be a Chiefs fan again!

I could not be happier!

L.A. Chieffan
02-28-2009, 10:12 PM
i apoligize, i read it earlier in the day but i guess its been retracted since then following more info coming out.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 10:13 PM
apparently there was a conditional pick involved too and who the hell knows what the conditions are? it could be something like cassel starts all 16 games and we owe them another 1st

No conditional pick. The press release directly from the Pats said it was Vrabel and Cassel for #34.

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 10:13 PM
In the end its still all about buisness, I seriously doubt the Patriots gave up a better deal just to show respect for Pioli.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 10:14 PM
Belichick had too much respect for Pioli to back out of the offer and essentially use the Chiefs for leverage to get a better deal.


You need to come back down to earth. I guarantee that when it comes to making football decisions, BB cares only about what's best for the Pats.

If you think anything other than the bottom line matters, it's time for you to head to the bars.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:14 PM
You need to come back down to earth. I guarantee that when it comes to making football decisions, BB cares only about what's best for the Pats.

If you think anything other than the bottom line matters, it's time for you to head to the bars.

schefter and mort are on record saying there was a better deal so....\\\



and IMO BB cares ALOT about pioli, his best friend if you believe reports

JohnnyV13
02-28-2009, 10:15 PM
I agree with jAZ. I highly doubt Belichick EVER plays "Santa Claus". I heard once that professional sports GM's tend to make deals with other GM's they trust. In this case, I suspect there is a conditional element to the trade, and Belichick trusts his ability to come to fair compensation on a later date with Pioli depending on how Cassel and Vrabel perform.

This trade sounds like a "player to be named later" deal in MLB. It could be that Belichick and Pioli haven't really defined the exact terms for later compensation, but simply have a "gentleman's agreement". Its the kind of thing you could do with someone you really trust.

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 10:15 PM
In the end its still all about buisness, I seriously doubt the Patriots gave up a better deal just to show respect for Pioli.

I mostly agree with this, but if there's anyone in the league that Belichick would do that for, it's Pioli.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:16 PM
If the Lions don't take a QB #1 overall...they are absolute FOOLS for not trading their 2nd round pick for Cassel...another reason why Belichick likely hooked up his boy Pioli with a nice little discount!

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:17 PM
You need to come back down to earth. I guarantee that when it comes to making football decisions, BB cares only about what's best for the Pats.

If you think anything other than the bottom line matters, it's time for you to head to the bars.

Normally, I'd agree.

But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

BradyFTW!
02-28-2009, 10:18 PM
If the Lions don't take a QB #1 overall...they are absolute FOOLS for not trading their 2nd round pick for Cassel...another reason why Belichick likely hooked up his boy Pioli with a nice little discount!

I think the other part of that is that the Lions probably wouldn't trade for Cassel without him first agreeing to an extension, which he probably wasn't willing to do. At the end of the day, the Pats had to either find someone who was willing to take Cassel at 1 year for 14.5M, or find someone that Cassel was willing to sign a new deal with. I assume that limited the Pats' options quite a bit

kcpasco
02-28-2009, 10:18 PM
If the Lions don't take a QB #1 overall...they are absolute FOOLS for not trading their 2nd round pick for Cassel...another reason why Belichick likely hooked up his boy Pioli with a nice little discount!

What does Belichick have against the Lions?

Or maybe I misread your post but thats what I got out of it.

KCwolf
02-28-2009, 10:19 PM
If the Lions don't take a QB #1 overall...they are absolute FOOLS for not trading their 2nd round pick for Cassel...another reason why Belichick likely hooked up his boy Pioli with a nice little discount!

They POSITIVELY will take Stafford.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:20 PM
Michael Smith said there were rumors Denver was willing to possibly go as far as adding their first round pick into the mix for Cassel...said the Chiefs willingness to take Vrabel and Belichick's respect for Pioli was why Cassel landed with the Chiefs...as well as the fact they had the cap room to take on his 1 year deal without working out a contract first.

DeezNutz
02-28-2009, 10:20 PM
Normally, I'd agree.

But if it looks like a duck, walks like a duck, and talks like a duck...

Then it's Bono v.2 and we just got fisted?

Buzz
02-28-2009, 10:21 PM
I could not be happier!

I LOVE ME SOME CHIEFS AGAIN!!!!!!

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:21 PM
If I was Cassel...I'd play the season out for $15M guaranteed...that's a HUGE payday...and then take your chances the Chiefs still want you (assuming he doesn't shit the bed) and then work out your contract next offseason.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:22 PM
Then it's Bono v.2 and we just got fisted?

Yeah, unless #34 turns into Junior Siavii v.2!

KCwolf
02-28-2009, 10:23 PM
Then it's Bono v.2 and we just got fisted?

uhhh...no. No fisting here.

EyePod
02-28-2009, 10:27 PM
I think where we traded for him was alright, but,



How in the hell would this have been a reasonable trade? I mean what did the guy do to merit this Herschel-Walker type consideration?

He did more than any rookie we could have drafted.

tboss27
02-28-2009, 10:29 PM
schefter AND mort are both saying that there was more on the table from other teams

I haven't been watching the network or ESPN, I don't find this hard to believe though. I can't believe someone like Minnesota wouldn't be willing to give a first for him, they would be hands down NFC North favorites with an even decent QB. I think they would win the NFC w/ Cassel and another reciever/TE.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:34 PM
Theory:

Cassel to Denver
Cutler to Tampa
#19 to New England

Theory:

New England already told KC they'd do the deal for #34.

Theory:

Belichick had too much respect for Pioli to back out of the offer and essentially use the Chiefs for leverage to get a better deal.

Makes sense to me.

If that's the case, and BB and Pioli had agreed to a deal, then there was no other deal "on the table". Another deal came along after the fact.

I don't think your theory is impossible to believe.

But I think it's more likely that one or two parties in that 3 way deal was willing to pull the trigger (and is now reporting it to anyone who will listen... *cough* Tampa *cough*), but the terms of such a deal wasn't ever agreed to by Denver (*cough* more than just Cassel for our Pro-Bowl QB in his prime *cough*).

That makes far more sense to me.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:35 PM
I think the other part of that is that the Lions probably wouldn't trade for Cassel without him first agreeing to an extension, which he probably wasn't willing to do. At the end of the day, the Pats had to either find someone who was willing to take Cassel at 1 year for 14.5M, or find someone that Cassel was willing to sign a new deal with. I assume that limited the Pats' options quite a bit
BradyFTW! FTW!

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 10:36 PM
plus we got a LB who was pretty descent and might have a year or two left.

Got Scott dumped Carl

Got Todd and dumped Herm

Lets see we got Mike and dumped Donnie,

Picked up Matt and dumped Damon.

am I dreaming??

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:37 PM
I haven't been watching the network or ESPN, I don't find this hard to believe though. I can't believe someone like Minnesota wouldn't be willing to give a first for him, they would be hands down NFC North favorites with an even decent QB. I think they would win the NFC w/ Cassel and another reciever/TE.

MN are in talks with Kurt Warner.

wazu
02-28-2009, 10:38 PM
Michael Smith said there were rumors Denver was willing to possibly go as far as adding their first round pick into the mix for Cassel...said the Chiefs willingness to take Vrabel and Belichick's respect for Pioli was why Cassel landed with the Chiefs...as well as the fact they had the cap room to take on his 1 year deal without working out a contract first.

If this is true then it is just insane. Either the Denver Broncos have suddenly become the dumbest franchise in football, or I have been severely undervaluing Matt Cassel's potential.

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:38 PM
plus we got a LB who was pretty descent and might have a year or two left.

Got Scott dumped Carl

Got Todd and dumped Herm

Lets see we got Mike and dumped Donnie,

Picked up Matt and dumped Damon.

am I dreaming??

No kidding.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:39 PM
If this is true then it is just insane. Either the Denver Broncos have suddenly become the dumbest franchise in football, or I have been severely undervaluing Matt Cassel's potential.

fingers crossed:D

jAZ
02-28-2009, 10:40 PM
...or I have been severely undervaluing Matt Cassel's potential.
I think this whole story demonstrates that everyone who's worked with MC think you are severly undervaluing his potential, but the rest of the league thinks you aren't.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:41 PM
If this is true then it is just insane. Either the Denver Broncos have suddenly become the dumbest franchise in football, or I have been severely undervaluing Matt Cassel's potential.

I understand football is all business.

This just seems like Bill Belichick thanking Pioli for his part in those 3 Super Bowls...

This deal is like their last hoorah! If that's the case, New York goes back to my most hated sports city...Boston moves back to 2nd.

JASONSAUTO
02-28-2009, 10:42 PM
I think this whole story demonstrates that everyone who's worked with MC think you are severly undervaluing his potential, but the rest of the league thinks you aren't.

i would tend to believe the guys who have worked with him for a couple of years over people who havent

Guru
02-28-2009, 10:46 PM
So, we have Pollard to blame for this if Cassel doesn't pan out.

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:47 PM
So, we have Pollard to blame for this if Cassel doesn't pan out.

http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7136/staydownbitchel5.gif

Halfcan
02-28-2009, 10:47 PM
pats are dum hee hee

wazu
02-28-2009, 10:48 PM
So, we have Pollard to blame for this if Cassel doesn't pan out.

Especially if he hits Cassel's knee in practice.

Guru
02-28-2009, 10:49 PM
http://img254.imageshack.us/img254/7136/staydownbitchel5.gifWho knew what significance that hit had to the Chiefs back then?

DaWolf
02-28-2009, 10:52 PM
I think BB was helping out his buddy, but still I think it is fair. The Pats get a lot of money off the books and can now delve further into FA, and they have four first day picks. Could they have gotten more for Cassel? Probably. But what Lombardi and Reese are proposing is ludicrous, no one would pay that...

Short Leash Hootie
02-28-2009, 10:52 PM
Who knew what significance that hit had to the Chiefs back then?
I dubbed it then as the highlight of last season...I guess it's also the highlight of this season...who would have known that one hit would highlight two seasons of Chiefs football?

wazu
02-28-2009, 10:58 PM
I think BB was helping out his buddy...

I keep seeing people say this. How in the world does anybody really think Belichick would take less value for Cassel just to be nice to his buddy?

If I were running an NFL franchise, and my brother, or father, or son were running another one, I wouldn't even consider taking less value than I could get for another player just to help them out. That would be so unprofessional and dishonest to my employer, my team, and our fans that it wouldn't even be considered. I cannot fathom Belichick doing this.

tk13
02-28-2009, 11:04 PM
I keep seeing people say this. How in the world does anybody really think Belichick would take less value for Cassel just to be nice to his buddy?

If I were running an NFL franchise, and my brother, or father, or son were running another one, I wouldn't even consider taking less value than I could get for another player just to help them out. That would be so unprofessional and dishonest to my employer, my team, and our fans that it wouldn't even be considered. I cannot fathom Belichick doing this.
I could see him doing it if it screwed over Mangini and the Browns, but that's not what happened here.

Pioli Zombie
02-28-2009, 11:12 PM
I think this deal was made at a discount for pioli by bill thanking him for helping with his success through the years. Gotta agree I'm not hating the pats as much as I use to.
Both Pioli and Belichick know value. Nobody got hosed here the chiefs got to keep their #3 and get the qb they needed. The Patriots got #34 and cleared out 20 million to spend. Hello Julius Peppers?

No favors done. Great day for both.
Posted via Mobile Device

CanadaKC
02-28-2009, 11:31 PM
But it sure is nice being the one who fleeces rather than the fleecee for a change:D

Pioli Zombie
02-28-2009, 11:36 PM
But nobody was fleeced.
Posted via Mobile Device

Saccopoo
02-28-2009, 11:56 PM
Let's see...

We get a quality starting NFL quarterback, a perennial All-Pro linebacker and get to watch Jay Cutler go into total mental breakdown over the fact that the Doncos were willing to dump him after he just went to the Pro Bowl all for a second round pick? A measly second round pick?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Again...are you fucking kidding me?

I'd give a second round pick just to watch the NFL channel post Jay Cutler's babbling insecure insanity about the Doncs willing to trade him, let alone getting our starting QB and LB. Wow.

Best off-season ever. Will never be duplicated. We have all just lived through a transcendental experience that will never happen again. Bask in the moment.

The Chiefs just got fun again.

Pioli Zombie
03-01-2009, 12:01 AM
Let's see...

We get a quality starting NFL quarterback, a perennial All-Pro linebacker and get to watch Jay Cutler go into total mental breakdown over the fact that the Doncos were willing to dump him after he just went to the Pro Bowl all for a second round pick? A measly second round pick?

Are you fucking kidding me?

Again...are you fucking kidding me?

I'd give a second round pick just to watch the NFL channel post Jay Cutler's babbling insecure insanity about the Doncs willing to trade him, let alone getting our starting QB and LB. Wow.

Best off-season ever. Will never be duplicated. We have all just lived through a transcendental experience that will never happen again. Bask in the moment.

The Chiefs just got fun again.

Just wait. It will get. Better. Crennel will come in. They will draft Raji at NT. Free agents will be signed. If the chiefs had a decent qb last year they could have won 6. I won't be surprised if they go 9-7 in the first year and go up from there
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Saccopoo
03-01-2009, 12:48 AM
Just wait. It will get. Better. Crennel will come in. They will draft Raji at NT. Free agents will be signed. If the chiefs had a decent qb last year they could have won 6. I won't be surprised if they go 9-7 in the first year and go up from there
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And, from a realistic perspective, all they have to do is win their division. The shittiest division in football. Chargers are the best team, but have the worst coach. The Doncos are already imploding and it's six/seven months before the season even starts and the Raiders are, well, the Raiders with the Crypt Keeper calling the shots. The Chiefs just upgraded themselves on both sides of the ball and they haven't drafted or signed a FA yet. And once you get into the playoffs, it's anyone's game. A turnover there, a good play, a bad/good call...you are in the Super Bowl. Just saying...

Sorry about the unbridled optimism, but things just got real interesting in the AFC West.

ArrowheadHawk
03-01-2009, 12:51 AM
And, from a realistic perspective, all they have to do is win their division. The shittiest division in football. Chargers are the best team, but have the worst coach. The Doncos are already imploding and it's six/seven months before the season even starts and the Raiders are, well, the Raiders with the Crypt Keeper calling the shots. The Chiefs just upgraded themselves on both sides of the ball and they haven't drafted or signed a FA yet. And once you get into the playoffs, it's anyone's game. A turnover there, a good play, a bad/good call...you are in the Super Bowl. Just saying...

Sorry about the unbridled optimism, but things just got real interesting in the AFC West.You are what Mecca and Hamas call a true fan.

Saccopoo
03-01-2009, 12:56 AM
You are what Mecca and Hamas call a true fan.

I'm being a realist. The division is now up for grabs. If the Chargers lose Olshansky, he's going to be hard to replace in their scheme and as I said, Norv is not a good head coach. And once you get to the playoffs, it's "any given Sunday." More idiotic things have happened in life, and nobody can say at this point that anyone in this division can't compete next season...

Mecca
03-01-2009, 12:58 AM
The Chargers are still an extremely talented team...

Sam Hall
03-01-2009, 12:58 AM
The Patriots didn't get robbed if they think Tom Brady will be back on opening day.

Color Red
03-01-2009, 01:02 AM
I keep seeing people say this. How in the world does anybody really think Belichick would take less value for Cassel just to be nice to his buddy?

If I were running an NFL franchise, and my brother, or father, or son were running another one, I wouldn't even consider taking less value than I could get for another player just to help them out. That would be so unprofessional and dishonest to my employer, my team, and our fans that it wouldn't even be considered. I cannot fathom Belichick doing this.

But consider this: arguably no one in the NFL had as acute knowledge of the Patriots strategic interest in roster maneuvering, cap and payroll management, draft prospecting as Scott Pioli. Obviously, all said, Scott was able to deliver on a silver platter a precise value that was the most attractive to New England.

It's not what you know.

It's not who you know.

It's what who you know knows when they become you know who. You know?

Interesting if we find that McDaniels was actually close to the deal too.

Saccopoo
03-01-2009, 01:24 AM
The Chargers are still an extremely talented team...

Very talented. With a very mediocre head coach. And having to find a replacement for Olshansky if he doesn't re-sign is significant. And who knows what LT is up to...and the fact that Rivers is very emotional as well...

Obviously, the Chargers are the best team in terms of overall talent at this point. However, who knows what positions the Chiefs address in the FA market and in the draft. With the Cassell/Vrabel additions, it added a significant twist to what they now do in the draft, and as a draftnik, you've got to be just giddy about thinking about the possibilities of what the Chiefs might do with their first rounder. (Trade down, or take Raji/Curry/Monroe/Crabtree, etc.) Personally, I don't see anyone on the draft board other than Orakpo that might interest the Chiefs, and I'm not a big Orakpo fan anyway. Trade down is the best alternative, but it's anything goes right now. Got to be a fun time for the draftniks out there.

aturnis
03-01-2009, 01:35 AM
Projected value and actual value are 2 different things.

Oh whatever Mecca. That's an asinine statement. The guy who made one of the statements is one of the guys who made the "bad" deal. The Pats basically knew they were making a bad deal, more or less GAVE the players to the Chiefs.

The Pats know they got raped, but it's probably something to do with being loyal to your bro's.

Frosty
03-01-2009, 02:13 AM
If the Lions don't take a QB #1 overall...they are absolute FOOLS for not trading their 2nd round pick for Cassel...another reason why Belichick likely hooked up his boy Pioli with a nice little discount!

I think the Chiefs just did Detroit a huge favor. If they don't take a QB at #1, it is very likely that at least one of the QBs will be there at their second #1, at 20. They can take the #1 LT with the first pick and get one of the QBs at #20. This would fit Ford's MO as it would be a lot cheaper, since a LT would get less money than a QB would at the same slot (plus Miami set the pay with Long last year, making it easier to get a contract done).

Mecca
03-01-2009, 02:17 AM
If they wait till 20 to take a QB they're getting Josh Freeman, and that's if they're lucky.

Frosty
03-01-2009, 02:18 AM
If they wait till 20 to take a QB they're getting Josh Freeman, and that's if they're lucky.

Hey, it's the Lions.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 02:19 AM
Hey, it's the Lions.

Well just sayin, the idea that teams like the Jets and Tampa Bay who are both of ahead of them won't take QB's is asking alot.

Darth CarlSatan
03-01-2009, 03:14 AM
Projected value and actual value are 2 different things.

"Baby eating is back". ROFL