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booger
03-01-2009, 03:36 PM
Bills | Interested in acquiring Waters
Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:04:25 -0800

Pat Moran, of Scout.com, reports the Buffalo Bills are interested in trading for Kansas City Chiefs OG Brian Waters, according to source.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

kstater
03-01-2009, 03:37 PM
I'd say a 2nd sounds reasonable.

Dr. Facebook Fever
03-01-2009, 03:38 PM
OK who do we want in return from them... or draft picks?

tomahawk kid
03-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Bills | Interested in acquiring Waters
Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:04:25 -0800

Pat Moran, of Scout.com, reports the Buffalo Bills are interested in trading for Kansas City Chiefs OG Brian Waters, according to source.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

1st rounder?

Hmmmmm....

chiefforlife
03-01-2009, 03:38 PM
Bills | Interested in acquiring Waters
Sun, 01 Mar 2009 12:04:25 -0800

Pat Moran, of Scout.com, reports the Buffalo Bills are interested in trading for Kansas City Chiefs OG Brian Waters, according to source.

http://www.kffl.com/hotw/nfl

Lets talk...maybe we get our second rounder back???

rockymtnchief
03-01-2009, 03:39 PM
I don't know a team that wouldn't be interested in Waters.

unothadeal
03-01-2009, 03:39 PM
Marcus Stroud

Tuckdaddy
03-01-2009, 03:39 PM
I'd say a 2nd sounds reasonable.

I wish they would but i doubt it. Maybe a 3rd or 4th. I'm positive that Scott will get our 2nd rounder back. Probably by unloading LJ.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 03:39 PM
It'd have to be a #2 for me to even entertain the discussion.

brandon
03-01-2009, 03:40 PM
Weren't they interested in Gonzo a while back? I wonder if he could make his way into this deal.

The Bad Guy
03-01-2009, 03:40 PM
I'd want Marcus Stroud and a 5th.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 03:41 PM
Weren't they interested in Gonzo a while back? I wonder if he could make his way into this deal.

Gonzalez and Waters for a #2 and #3?

RedThat
03-01-2009, 03:44 PM
For Brian Waters? A 32 year old probowl guard? you're probably gonna get a 3rd rounder. I think his value doesn't go anymore then that.

Captain Obvious
03-01-2009, 03:45 PM
For Brian Waters? A 32 year old probowl guard? you're probably gonna get a 3rd rounder. I think his value doesn't go anymore then that.

Depends on how much they want him. Sounds like they are the ones reaching out to the Chiefs and not the other way around.

PastorMikH
03-01-2009, 03:45 PM
We have a decent QB coming in now, so why not send our best reciever and our best O linemen to another team? Yeah, that makes sense.

unothadeal
03-01-2009, 03:47 PM
http://buf.scout.com/2/843380.html

Bills interested in Chiefs guard

Brian Waters (Getty Images)
By Pat Moran
Scout.com writer
Posted Mar 1, 2009


BFR's Pat Moran has the lowdown on a possible trade looming. The Bills might not be finished upgrading their offensive line. Disgruntled guard Brian Waters could be Buffalo-bound. Read this Buffalo Football Report exclusive inside...

The Buffalo Bills are interested in trading for disgruntled Kansas City Chiefs guard Brian Waters, according to a trusted source.

The Bills, in the market for a new left guard after releasing Derrick Dockery on Thursday, could be looking to land the four-time Pro Bowler for a deal similar to the Marcus Stroud trade last year, when they gave up third and fifth round draft picks.

Waters has become disenchanted with the additions to the Chiefs organization. According to Kansas City Star writer Jason Whitlock, Waters asked for his release after new general manager Scott Pioli said he had no interest in meeting him. Whitlock said that Waters was “offended and shocked.”

Also according to the report, several Arizona Cardinals, including Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald, gave new head coach Todd Haley less than glowing reviews. Haley was called “condescending and ignored by veterans.”

While Waters is 32 years of age and the Chiefs offensive line struggled mightily, there is little doubt about his ability to perform. He would be an instant upgrade over Dockery and could give Buffalo one of the finer left sides of the offensive line in the NFL alongside Jason Peters.

The Bills would likely have to give Waters a new deal. He’s in the fourth year of a six year, $26.5 million deal and has made no bones about declaring himself underpaid.

While an interest in a Waters trade hasn’t been made public, a source inside the organization tells me the Bills are “very much interested in him.”

Pioli refused to honor his request to be released and weren’t open to trading him. But that could change after the Chiefs lost a second-round pick in acquiring Matt Cassel from the New England Patriots. By trading the displeased Waters, the club could recoup draft picks as well as not have their new franchise quarterback hampered with an offensive line that includes an exceedingly unhappy left guard.

Stay tuned right here for more details as they come available.

bdeg
03-01-2009, 03:47 PM
Because they're too old to help us when we will be good, whereas a draft pick will not.

Make sense?

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 03:47 PM
It'd have to be a #2 for me to even entertain the discussion.

Not me.

I'd take a 4th or even a 5th.

This draft is so deep with offensive lineman, plus, Herb Taylor's just waiting to be the starting left guard.

RedThat
03-01-2009, 03:48 PM
We have a decent QB coming in now, so why not send our best reciever and our best O linemen to another team? Yeah, that makes sense.

I can see what you're trying to say here, however, if he's not a happycamper and doesn't want to be here as some reports indicate, what else can you really do?

Fritz88
03-01-2009, 03:50 PM
I'd say a 2nd sounds reasonable.

I'd say that is a little too much for Waters.

Maybe a 3rd.

seaofred
03-01-2009, 03:50 PM
Tony G. and Waters for their 2nd and 3rd would be great. Then if we can find a way to get rid of LJ, we wouldn't have anymore of the spoiled babies on our team. We then could build a team.... Not just have some Pro Bowlers.

shammus
03-01-2009, 03:53 PM
A couple things I don't like about this -

1. It further depletes an already struggling line. If I remember correctly, this is Herb Taylor's natural position so he could step in, but Waters is a probowler so this would be a downgrade. We already need a new C, RG and RT.

2. Most of the quality Olinemen available in free agency are now off the market. There's still Khalif Barnes if we need a RT but very few others. That means, we'd be heading into the draft with four holes on our offensive line.

3. Waters is a leader on that line (not to mention the entire team) and certainly not doing Brandon Alberts any harm as a mentor.

Hopefully his comments were made when he was still upset over what happened. So perhaps this all blows over when he calms down. I know Haley/Pioli were planning on "reaching out" to Larry Johnson. I can't imagine they'd be so quick to part with Waters.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 03:55 PM
Not me.

I'd take a 4th or even a 5th.

This draft is so deep with offensive lineman, plus, Herb Taylor's just waiting to be the starting left guard.

Seriously? You'd take a 5th Round draft pick for your best offensive lineman who just went to a Pro Bowl and probably has at least 3 more years of productive football left in him?

munkey
03-01-2009, 03:58 PM
Buh-bye Waters....Nice knowing ya.

He just wants more money and does not want to start over/rebuild/compete for his job.

AND YES...he SHOULD be competing for his job after this little tampontrum.

FAX
03-01-2009, 04:00 PM
After just watching Pioli trade our 2nd for both Cassel and Vrabel, some peeps think it's possible that we'll trade Waters for a 5?

Now I know why the Israelites built that golden calf thing while Moses' back was turned.

FAX

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:01 PM
Tony G. and Waters for their 2nd and 3rd would be great. Then if we can find a way to get rid of LJ, we wouldn't have anymore of the spoiled babies on our team. We then could build a team.... Not just have some Pro Bowlers.

#2 (acquired in trade) Darrius Heyward-Bey
#3 (Chiefs pick) Eric Wood
#3 (acquired in trade) Lawrence Sidbury or Chase Coffman or Jonathan Luigs

Where do I sign?

el borracho
03-01-2009, 04:03 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.

soundmind
03-01-2009, 04:03 PM
I can see what you're trying to say here, however, if he's not a happycamper and doesn't want to be here as some reports indicate, what else can you really do?

Package him with LJ somewhere so they actually have some kind of value combined...

All our vets are whiny, coddled players. We have Carl, Herm and Vermeil to thank for that, our players have been conditioned to think that the organization is concerned about their feelings, and that they have a say in how football operations will evolve....such is simply not the case anymore.

Enjoy your new homes gentleman, this team is busy building a winner and doesn't have time for your self-pity.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:04 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.

That'd make for one hell of a left side of the Offensive Line.
Not sure I'd do that, but talk about "protection".

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:05 PM
Package him with LJ somewhere so they actually have some kind of value combined...

All our vets are whiny, coddled players. We have Carl, Herm and Vermeil to thank for that, our players have been conditioned to think that the organization is concerned about their feelings, and that they have a say in how football operations will evolve....such is simply not the case anymore.

Enjoy your new homes gentleman, this team is busy building a winner and doesn't have time for your self-pity.

A part of me thinks LJ is the least expendable of the three in the minds of Chiefs brass. Not sure why I feel that way... I just think he's gonna be here when the season opens.

Toad
03-01-2009, 04:05 PM
I would hope that Pioli will "calm the water" so to speak. I think he and BW will work things out.

journeyscarab
03-01-2009, 04:05 PM
trade them waters and LJ for 1st rd and Jason Peters

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:06 PM
#2 (acquired in trade) Darrius Heyward-Bey


ROFL

soundmind
03-01-2009, 04:06 PM
#2 (acquired in trade) Darrius Heyward-Bey
#3 (Chiefs pick) Eric Wood
#3 (acquired in trade) Lawrence Sidbury or Chase Coffman or Jonathan Luigs

Where do I sign?

Except that none of those players will be available when you want them. DHB is a potential late 1st, early 2nd pick right now...and Wood goes in the 2nd guaranteed.

Our draft just got flipped upside down without the 2nd, but we should all buckle up, I don't think we're done moving things around, there's another 2 months to the draft yet...

mikey23545
03-01-2009, 04:06 PM
http://buf.scout.com/2/843380.html

The Bills would likely have to give Waters a new deal. He’s in the fourth year of a six year, $26.5 million deal and has made no bones about declaring himself underpaid.


He can only blame his agent for that....

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:07 PM
trade them waters and LJ for 1st rd and Jason Peters

Hmm...

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:08 PM
Why, in the name of fuck, would you want to move Branden Albert, who is going to be a Pro Bowl left tackle, to a less important position on the line where he goes from being underpaid to overpaid as a virtue of the move, and causes you to dump millions more on a replacement whose upside is little more than what Albert has already proven he can do?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:09 PM
Hmm...

Jason Peters led the NFL in sacks allowed last year for a run-first team.

The Bad Guy
03-01-2009, 04:09 PM
If Fitzgerald gave Haley less than glowing reviews then why did he invite him to go to the Pro Bowl with him?

Makes no fucking sense.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:10 PM
ROFL

That's laughable?

I've seen recent mocks that have him going 40th or later.
Buffalo has the #42 pick.

munkey
03-01-2009, 04:11 PM
If Fitzgerald gave Haley less than glowing reviews then why did he invite him to go to the Pro Bowl with him?

Makes no ****ing sense.

That's why the whole story by JW makes no sense at all. I just think Waters wants out...plain and simple.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:11 PM
Jason Peters led the NFL in sacks allowed last year for a run-first team.

Hence the "hmm..."

I've said time and again that Ray Willis would already be signed if I were the Chiefs GM.
He'd be our new RT heading into next season.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:13 PM
That's laughable?

I've seen recent mocks that have him going 40th or later.
Buffalo has the #42 pick.

Absolutely no chance a guy that is 6'2", 220 lbs who just ran a 4.3 flat is going any later than the first round.

His stock will skyrocket.

rtmike
03-01-2009, 04:15 PM
He can only blame his agent for that....

Actually that would be himself as he has no agent.

SNR
03-01-2009, 04:17 PM
Pioli will rape them

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/01/ralph-wilson-012008.jpg So Scott, I understand your pro bowl guard wants a trade. We're interested in acquiring him.

http://stateoftheline.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/scottpiolikevinjames.jpg Shut the **** up. I'm going to make you pay far out the ass. You can have him for your 1st rounder this year and next year. I won't accept anything less.

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/01/ralph-wilson-012008.jpg That's way too expensive!

http://stateoftheline.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/scottpiolikevinjames.jpg **** you

http://www.blogcdn.com/www.fanhouse.com/media/2008/01/ralph-wilson-012008.jpg Wait, how about Marcus Stroud and our 1st rounder this year?

http://i2.cdn.turner.com/si/2008/writers/don_banks/12/30/pioli/scott-pioli.jpg Meh. I'll think about it. Fuck yourself and make me a roast beef sandwich

kchero
03-01-2009, 04:17 PM
trade them waters and LJ for 1st rd and Jason Peters


With all of LJ's issues there is no way this would happen. LJ and waters combined may = their 1st round pick and thats a big maybe, but not for Jason Peters as well. Why would they take Waters just to get rid Peters...

seaofred
03-01-2009, 04:18 PM
Why would they want LJ? Don't they have Lynch and the other guy?

el borracho
03-01-2009, 04:20 PM
Why, in the name of ****, would you want to move Branden Albert, who is going to be a Pro Bowl left tackle, to a less important position on the line where he goes from being underpaid to overpaid as a virtue of the move, and causes you to dump millions more on a replacement whose upside is little more than what Albert has already proven he can do?

I'm not insisting on it nor saying it will happen but it is a possibility that would a) give us 2/5 of a kick-ass Oline and b) take advantage of the value at the top of the draft. Oline is definitely a need, so it's not like I am insane to suggest we add another piece and adding a top 3 prospect is a great way to replace a 32 year old player on the line.

By the way, there is no guarantee that Albert is "going to be" a Pro Bowl left tackle (although he looked great last year) and, really, I don't care so very much about overpaid/underpaid since it isn't my money as long as the Chiefs are able to field a competetive team (and there doesn't seem to be any money constraints at the moment).

el borracho
03-01-2009, 04:22 PM
heh. Pioli looks more like The King of Queens than a mobster in that photo.

Cave Johnson
03-01-2009, 04:22 PM
Actually that would be himself as he has no agent.

Sarcasm meter broke much?

DeezNutz
03-01-2009, 04:23 PM
It would make more sense to draft a RT #3 than to move Albert to guard.

But that doesn't mean that either would be good decisions.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:24 PM
I'm not insisting on it nor saying it will happen but it is a possibility that would a) give us 2/5 of a kick-ass Oline and b) take advantage of the value at the top of the draft. Oline is definitely a need, so it's not like I am insane to suggest we add another piece and adding a top 3 prospect is a great way to replace a 32 year old player on the line.

By the way, there is no guarantee that Albert is "going to be" a Pro Bowl left tackle (although he looked great last year) and, really, I don't care so very much about overpaid/underpaid since it isn't my money as long as the Chiefs are able to field a competetive team (and there doesn't seem to be any money constraints at the moment).

You should care about the cap because if we have two first round contracts tied up into the two OL positions left of center it means we have less to spend on the RDE, QB, #1 WR, RB, DTs and the other guys who are the prime movers for the team.

You can find a replacement for Brian Waters in the 4th round.

Would you rather roll the dice with BJ Raji, who plays the most important position on the D, and a 4th round guard, or Eugene Monroe and a 3rd or 4th round NT?

This is why people need to take positional value into account at the top of the draft.

booger
03-01-2009, 04:26 PM
http://buf.scout.com/2/843380.html

Bills interested in Chiefs guard

Brian Waters (Getty Images)
By Pat Moran
Scout.com writer
Posted Mar 1, 2009


BFR's Pat Moran has the lowdown on a possible trade looming. The Bills might not be finished upgrading their offensive line. Disgruntled guard Brian Waters could be Buffalo-bound. Read this Buffalo Football Report exclusive inside...

The Buffalo Bills are interested in trading for disgruntled Kansas City Chiefs guard Brian Waters, according to a trusted source.

The Bills, in the market for a new left guard after releasing Derrick Dockery on Thursday, could be looking to land the four-time Pro Bowler for a deal similar to the Marcus Stroud trade last year, when they gave up third and fifth round draft picks.

Waters has become disenchanted with the additions to the Chiefs organization. According to Kansas City Star writer Jason Whitlock, Waters asked for his release after new general manager Scott Pioli said he had no interest in meeting him. Whitlock said that Waters was “offended and shocked.”

Also according to the report, several Arizona Cardinals, including Anquan Boldin and Larry Fitzgerald, gave new head coach Todd Haley less than glowing reviews. Haley was called “condescending and ignored by veterans.”

While Waters is 32 years of age and the Chiefs offensive line struggled mightily, there is little doubt about his ability to perform. He would be an instant upgrade over Dockery and could give Buffalo one of the finer left sides of the offensive line in the NFL alongside Jason Peters.

The Bills would likely have to give Waters a new deal. He’s in the fourth year of a six year, $26.5 million deal and has made no bones about declaring himself underpaid.

While an interest in a Waters trade hasn’t been made public, a source inside the organization tells me the Bills are “very much interested in him.”

Pioli refused to honor his request to be released and weren’t open to trading him. But that could change after the Chiefs lost a second-round pick in acquiring Matt Cassel from the New England Patriots. By trading the displeased Waters, the club could recoup draft picks as well as not have their new franchise quarterback hampered with an offensive line that includes an exceedingly unhappy left guard.

Stay tuned right here for more details as they come available.





somebody should tell this scout.com guy that he should charge this stuff as premium. Nick Athan rips people off with far worse stuff than this.

mikey23545
03-01-2009, 04:27 PM
Actually that would be himself as he has no agent.

Adjust sarcasm meter much?

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:28 PM
Absolutely no chance a guy that is 6'2", 220 lbs who just ran a 4.3 flat is going any later than the first round.

His stock will skyrocket.

You could be right.

I think there could be a run on WR's at the end of the First Round though. And some of DHB's counterparts were much more decorated in College.

We'll see...
He might not be there, but having that #2 gives us a great shot to get some of the First Round overflow that's sure to be there.

rtmike
03-01-2009, 04:30 PM
Adjust sarcasm meter much?

Nothin' gets by you folks. Next time I'll know when you place ... at the end of a post you're being sarcastic.

Forgive me for having a dead battery in my secret decoder ring...

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:34 PM
Seriously? You'd take a 5th Round draft pick for your best offensive lineman who just went to a Pro Bowl and probably has at least 3 more years of productive football left in him?

Absolutely.

He's 32.

He's a malcontent.

Get what you can, while you can.

milkman
03-01-2009, 04:35 PM
We have a decent QB coming in now, so why not send our best reciever and our best O linemen to another team? Yeah, that makes sense.

No worries.

We aren't trading Branden Albert.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:36 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.

:Lin:

So, we're basically where the Chiefs were last year.

Nice left side, no right side.


:Lin:

And $60+ million dollars wrapped up in two left tackles.

SBK
03-01-2009, 04:37 PM
This is a lot of discussion based upon the writings of an Assclown from Buffalo.

ChiefsCountry
03-01-2009, 04:38 PM
If we had a rookie I would say dumb Waters and move on but adding Cassel puts us in a win quicker mode.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:39 PM
If we had a rookie I would say dumb Waters and move on but adding Cassel puts us in a win quicker mode.

Herb Taylor

el borracho
03-01-2009, 04:39 PM
You should care about the cap because if we have two first round contracts tied up into the two OL positions left of center it means we have less to spend on the RDE, QB, #1 WR, RB, DTs and the other guys who are the prime movers for the team.

You can find a replacement for Brian Waters in the 4th round.

Would you rather roll the dice with BJ Raji, who plays the most important position on the D, and a 4th round guard, or Eugene Monroe and a 3rd or 4th round NT?

This is why people need to take positional value into account at the top of the draft.

Well, if you could find Waters' replacement in the 4th round why would anyone trade anything for him?

Also, I'm taking the long view that all of our problems will not be solved this year so I'm willing to suffer on with a lesser player at one position if we get a much better prospect at another position of importance. By the way, I view the Dline as slightly more important than the Oline (not much) but this draft seems to tilt towards O so I would take that into consideration, as well.

We certainly need a DE, as well, but I don't think many would be thrilled with Orakpo because, even though he may be the best prospect this year, overall, there are concerns. Somewhat similarly in my mind, there are LT prospects who are rated higher than Raji so, that is the thinking, there.

P.S. I would be pretty happy to have Raji, too. Just throwing out a possibility.

keg in kc
03-01-2009, 04:39 PM
Guards aren't difficult to find and Waters is not Will Shields.

Sure-Oz
03-01-2009, 04:40 PM
If he's going to cry then cya, hopefully we get a decent draft choice in return.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-01-2009, 04:40 PM
For Brian Waters? A 32 year old probowl guard? you're probably gonna get a 3rd rounder. I think his value doesn't go anymore then that.

Then keep him. I wouldn't take less than a 1st. At all.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:40 PM
Guards aren't difficult to find and Waters is not Will Shields.

Waters was an undrafted free agent

ChiefsCountry
03-01-2009, 04:40 PM
Guards aren't difficult to find and Waters is not Will Shields.

This.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:41 PM
Herb Taylor

Do you really think he's strong enough to play that position? He's got good feet for it, but I just don't see him being stout enough at the POA against bigger lineman and the bull rush.

the Talking Can
03-01-2009, 04:41 PM
can anyone think of ol trades for comparison?

i'd love a 3rd, but that seems unlikely...maybe a 4th and a 5th

i guess i have no idea what a guard can bring...not much i would assume

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:41 PM
Then keep him. I wouldn't take less than a 1st. At all.

He's a dick. He needs to go.

Remember when he pulled some shit a few years back? Missed camp. No one knew where he was? Then it was reported that it was a "family" issue.

It turned out to be a contract issue and he was holding out.

He's thinks he's way more important than he is to the team.

Ship him out.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:42 PM
Absolutely.

He's 32.

He's a malcontent.

Get what you can, while you can.

Waters is anything but a malcontent.
He's been a class act throughout his Chiefs tenure.
The new regime runners just rubbed him the wrong way.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:42 PM
Do you really think he's strong enough to play that position? He's got good feet for it, but I just don't see him being stout enough at the POA against bigger lineman and the bull rush.

It depends on what he's done in the offseason.

I see no reason why he can't muscle up for left guard before September.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:43 PM
can anyone think of ol trades for comparison?

i'd love a 3rd, but that seems unlikely...maybe a 4th and a 5th

i guess i have no idea what a guard can bring...not much i would assume

POS Welbourn was traded for a 2nd and 4th, but teams aren't that loose with draft choices any more.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:43 PM
Waters is anything but a malcontent.
He's been a class act throughout his Chiefs tenure.
The new regime runners just rubbed him the wrong way.

Sorry, I disagree and posted just above you about him missing camp a few years back due to his "family" issues.

And personally, I think HE rubbed the new regime the wrong way.

Not the other way around.

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:44 PM
hey hamas and dane and mic, in the FA thread someone said olshansky signed with houston. all i could find was orlovsky(qb) anyone heard anything about igor?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:44 PM
It depends on what he's done in the offseason.

I see no reason why he can't muscle up for left guard before September.

It's not just about getting cock diesel for the season, it's about being able to hold onto that weight when he's not in an offseason S&C regimen. That was always the problem with Wiegmann, he'd shed weight like Lohan during the season because interior lineman are always beat to shit and can't lift all the time.

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:45 PM
Sorry, I disagree and posted just above you about him missing camp a few years back due to his "family" issues.

And personally, I think HE rubbed the new regime the wrong way.

Not the other way around.

i agree and have said before the comments about if and when we start winning herm is responsible would chap some asses

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:45 PM
POS Welbourn was traded for a 2nd and 4th, but teams aren't that loose with draft choices any more.

Wiki's wrong.

He was traded for a 5th and a 4th.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:45 PM
hey hamas and dane and mic, in the FA thread someone said olshansky signed with houston. all i could find was orlovsky(qb) anyone heard anything about igor?

I'm fucking watching golf. I just spent the last hour and a half folding clothes and listening to podcasts. I have no idea.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Sorry, I disagree and posted just above you about him missing camp a few years back due to his "family" issues.

And personally, I think HE rubbed the new regime the wrong way.

Not the other way around.

One issue throughout his time with the team qualifies him as a malcontent?

I think Chiefs brass mishandled the situation given what we know.
He's the most respectable player on this entire team and have NO INTEREST in meeting with him to discuss the direction of the team? Come on.

Waters' service time warrants a sitdown.

Bowser
03-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Well, do we trade him, draft Monroe, and move Albert to guard? (Just asking; I'm no fan of that idea)

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-01-2009, 04:46 PM
Wiki's wrong.

He was traded for a 5th and a 4th.

I thought it was a 3rd and 5th, but I went with Wiki. Both wrong perhaps :shrug:.


Note, it was actually two fifth rounders.

http://www.sportsnet.ca/football/nfl/players/John_Welbourn/

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:46 PM
It's not just about getting cock diesel for the season, it's about being able to hold onto that weight when he's not in an offseason S&C regimen. That was always the problem with Wiegmann, he'd shed weight like Lohan during the season because interior lineman are always beat to shit and can't lift all the time.

I guess that remains to be seen. The guy certainly has the ability, size and good technique.

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:46 PM
I'm fucking watching golf. I just spent the last hour and a half folding clothes and listening to podcasts. I have no idea.

no it was wrong

keg in kc
03-01-2009, 04:48 PM
Remember when he pulled some shit a few years back? Missed camp. No one knew where he was? Then it was reported that it was a "family" issue.

It turned out to be a contract issue and he was holding out.Hardly anybody remembers that. I mentioned it the morning Whitlock's story came out, as precedence for underhanded contract 'negotiation'. He made a move to negotiate through the media a few days ago and it blew up in his face.

But he's a good guy, so it can't possibly be that.




As for getting a 1st round pick for a guard, well, good luck for that. You're not going to get that for any guard, much less an older one whose play has already declined.

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:51 PM
hey hamas and dane and mic, in the FA thread someone said olshansky signed with houston. all i could find was orlovsky(qb) anyone heard anything about igor?

Don't see anything about Olshansky.
Canty signed with the Giants though.
:cuss:

Didn't they sign Boley and Bernard too?
Sheesh... More great defense in New York.

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:52 PM
Don't see anything about Olshansky.
Canty signed with the Giants though.
:cuss:

Didn't they sign Boley and Bernard too?
Sheesh... More great defense in New York.

the post was wrong it was actually dan orlovsky a qb, but i was worried i would like to sign igor

Mr. Krab
03-01-2009, 04:53 PM
As long as they are willing to pay otherwise Waters can suit up and be quiet.

keg in kc
03-01-2009, 04:53 PM
the post was wrong it was actually dan orlovsky a qb,ROFL

Micjones
03-01-2009, 04:53 PM
the post was wrong it was actually dan orlovsky a qb, but i was worried i would like to sign igor

He'd be a nice addition now that Canty's off the market.
Sign him up!

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:54 PM
ROFL

hey it wasnt MY post:D

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 04:54 PM
Hardly anybody remembers that. I mentioned it the morning Whitlock's story came out, as precedence for underhanded contract 'negotiation'. He made a move to negotiate through the media a few days ago and it blew up in his face.

But he's a good guy, so it can't possibly be that.




As for getting a 1st round pick for a guard, well, good luck for that. You're not going to get that for any guard, much less an older one whose play has already declined.

Exactly.

I'm just glad the days of the players drinking wine and eating dinner with the coaches is OVER.

Time for some real football coaches.

Haley his the nail on the head: Waters was on 2-14 football. Get over yourself.

booger
03-01-2009, 04:55 PM
Michael Lombardi nailed the comparasson of Taylor to that of Derrick Deese. Deese was an undersized tackle who was a very good pass blocker but could be overpowered in the run game. Herb looked a bit bigger last year and could add more. I think giving him his shot at G would be good for him. As long as he has a good T beside him and a strong C. He could slide out to T when needed like Shields did.

De La Puente is a G but more of a C size wise. Richardson needs only to toughen up, in the weight room and mentally he needs to realize if he wants it he can be a starter, just get his mind into it. He needs to aquire a mean streak which isn't very easy to do. He may just be what he is. I don't have any hope that McIntosh will excell at RT again and think he is to soft to play G. I imagine he gets cut but for now is an insurance policy. Jones is a turd, but a FA turd at that. I liked what i saw ( didn't expect much ) from Wade Smith. But that was the spread and he is only a backup for all 3 inside spots.

Add in Rudy who got the 2nd rd RFA tender and hopefully a move to RG. I think he is a Pioli type of Lineman from looking at the pats roster, he fits in size wise.

I think Jake Grove is a FA.

this guy http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/players/playerpage/407201 Elton Brown has been a bust in AZ but Haley would have an idea if he was worth a short term Prove it contract or not.

Mr. Krab
03-01-2009, 04:56 PM
Well, do we trade him, draft Monroe, and move Albert to guard? (Just asking; I'm no fan of that idea)
If we move albert, won't it just be to the other guard spot? Why move him at all, just draft a tackle and put them at RT. We have other guys that can play inside like Taylor and Niswanger.

Chiefshrink
03-01-2009, 04:57 PM
A part of me thinks LJ is the least expendable of the three in the minds of Chiefs brass. Not sure why I feel that way... I just think he's gonna be here when the season opens.

It's called $$ that nobody else is willing to pick up especially now that they have to worry about off the field antics as well. Were stuck with him:grr:

CaliforniaChief
03-01-2009, 04:58 PM
Now that some time has elapsed since Whitlock published Brian Waters' diary, I've come to a different conclusion about what ought to be done in the situation.

I think you work it out and keep him here. Or at least come to a point where it looks like you've worked it out and THEN move him to another team.

We've got so many holes in this roster, particularly if we're moving to 3-4 base defense, that it would be nice to not have to worry about the left side of the O-line at least for this year. Unlike LJ, I don't believe Waters would do anything less than his best if he's retained. These are all men and I'm sure they can work it out in a way that helps Waters move forward and the leadership save the reputation as a hard-ass organization.

Now, if Buffalo or someone else blew us away with an offer, that's a different story. But my hope is that they can work through it so that we have one less roster spot to fill this year. And with Cassel back there, I'm pretty sure Pioli's going to make sure the left side of the line is fortified.

BTW along those lines, whoever mentioned moving Albert from LT is crazy.

Tribal Warfare
03-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Herb Taylor

Richardson possibly

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 04:59 PM
Richardson possibly

should be our RT

Micjones
03-01-2009, 05:00 PM
It's called $$ that nobody else is willing to pick up especially now that they have to worry about off the field antics as well. Were stuck with him:grr:

Yep, I think so.
If Chiefs brass can get through to him and get his head together he'd be a valuable part of this offense.

HC_Chief
03-01-2009, 05:00 PM
A 3rd would be great!

booger
03-01-2009, 05:00 PM
A couple years ago guys like Eric Steinbach got huge money deals for G's. I was just an example of a poor FA class and teams overpaying.

Carl had guys like Tony and LJ who were like his sons. But guys like Trich and waters were his guys who "got it" whatever that ment. He always pumped up Trich as a future director of player development. Which could be true. Tony is a good guy and a true pro. He also got waters to think he was kissing his ass when waters acted as his own agent and signed and negotiated a bad contract. In addition to other offseasons with BW being unhappy with $$$ last year Waters was asked somewhere about moving to C with Weigmann not coming back and insuated sure he would do it but want money as an incentive for doing so. Maybe he should call up Will Shields and get his agent Joe Linta's number and ask him for some representation.

Tribal Warfare
03-01-2009, 05:04 PM
should be our RT

I really believe Herman" House" Johnson will be drafted for that position.

the Talking Can
03-01-2009, 05:04 PM
POS Welbourn was traded for a 2nd and 4th, but teams aren't that loose with draft choices any more.

holy **** i forgot about that....more than we paid for a QB and a lb...


edit

nevermind, the info was wrong

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 05:07 PM
I really believe Herman" House" Johnson will be drafted for that position.

maybe if so then yeah richardson needs to get his head straight and take a spot

chop
03-01-2009, 05:09 PM
heh. Pioli looks more like The King of Queens than a mobster in that photo.

I was thinking the same thing. :D

booger
03-01-2009, 05:09 PM
the post was wrong it was actually dan orlovsky a qb, but i was worried i would like to sign igor

bunch of gal damn polocks i tell ya:cuss:

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 05:17 PM
I really believe Herman" House" Johnson will be drafted for that position.

I'm thinking Urbick

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 05:18 PM
maybe if so then yeah richardson needs to get his head straight and take a spot

He's a 6th rounder.

You shouldn't expect much, if anything from him.

His scouting report said it all, which is exactly WHY he was a 6th rounder.

Ultra Peanut
03-01-2009, 05:19 PM
Why, in the name of fuck, would you want to move Branden Albert, who is going to be a Pro Bowl left tackle, to a less important position on the line where he goes from being underpaid to overpaid as a virtue of the move, and causes you to dump millions more on a replacement whose upside is little more than what Albert has already proven he can do?BUT THAT LEFT SIDE SURE WOULD BE STRONG~!

JASONSAUTO
03-01-2009, 05:19 PM
He's a 6th rounder.

You shouldn't expect much, if anything from him.

His scouting report said it all, which is exactly WHY he was a 6th rounder.

thats why i said he needs to get his head straight. or just get the fuck out

blueballs
03-01-2009, 05:36 PM
There was most defiantly
a 3rd involved in the Welbourn trade
must have been conditional though

wild1
03-01-2009, 05:39 PM
second or third sounds about right for a quality interior lineman who has 2-3 years left

Mr. Krab
03-01-2009, 05:40 PM
There was most defiantly
a 3rd involved in the Welbourn trade
must have been conditional though
I think the Welbourn trade was for a 4th round pick in the current year and a 4th round pick in the following year. Unless Welbourn played more than 60% of our offensive snaps then the 4th next year would become a 3rd round pick. He did.

just going by memory though

T-post Tom
03-01-2009, 05:40 PM
With all the $$$ getting thrown out to O-linemen, Waters is going nowhere. He'll remain a Chief and be glad he did when the wins start mounting... :)

SNR
03-01-2009, 05:40 PM
BUT THAT LEFT SIDE SURE WOULD BE STRONG~!Bring Priest Holmes and Jason Dunn out of retirement.

Bring back the off tackle left run.

I can see it now.

blueballs
03-01-2009, 05:43 PM
I think the Welbourn trade was for a 4th round pick in the current year and a 4th round pick in the following year. Unless Welbourn played more than 60% of our offensive snaps then the 4th next year would become a 3rd round pick. He did.

just going by memory though


I seem to recall now a hissy fit -Chiefs fans
when he just barely met the requirement
for Philly to get the 3rd

DTLB58
03-01-2009, 05:57 PM
We have a decent QB coming in now, so why not send our best reciever and our best O linemen to another team? Yeah, that makes sense.

I hear ya, I want to keep him.

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 06:23 PM
second or third sounds about right for a quality interior lineman who has 2-3 years left

Uh...

milkman
03-01-2009, 06:28 PM
second or third sounds about right for a quality interior lineman who has 2-3 years left

No it doesn't.

Good guards can be found in the 4th round or later.

bowener
03-01-2009, 06:31 PM
Now that some time has elapsed since Whitlock published Brian Waters' diary, I've come to a different conclusion about what ought to be done in the situation.

I think you work it out and keep him here. Or at least come to a point where it looks like you've worked it out and THEN move him to another team.

We've got so many holes in this roster, particularly if we're moving to 3-4 base defense, that it would be nice to not have to worry about the left side of the O-line at least for this year. Unlike LJ, I don't believe Waters would do anything less than his best if he's retained. These are all men and I'm sure they can work it out in a way that helps Waters move forward and the leadership save the reputation as a hard-ass organization.

Now, if Buffalo or someone else blew us away with an offer, that's a different story. But my hope is that they can work through it so that we have one less roster spot to fill this year. And with Cassel back there, I'm pretty sure Pioli's going to make sure the left side of the line is fortified.

BTW along those lines, whoever mentioned moving Albert from LT is crazy.

I think the best way for Haley to work it out with Waters is to address the team.

He should call them all in to the locker room, standing on a stool for all to see and hear. He should then apologize to Waters by stating:

"Last week I was slightly short with Brian. He came to visit on a busy day at the office, unannounced. Clearly this is an important juncture in all of our careers; I have the best in mind for all of us as a team, I reiterate, A TEAM. Now, after seeing the trade that Pioli and I fucking hammered out out, I think it is time that you all (as he bends over pointing at his ass) Kiss my ass and thank me. No offense Pigpen, but I just got you all a fucking quality NFL starting QB. So you all can shut the fuck up, sit down, read your play books, and do as we fucking say, or you're all gone. Have a pleasant day, fuckers!!"

I dont know why, but in my imagination Haley loves saying 'fuck' whenever he can. Like, "holy-fucking-shit, did they really just run the option?!? Fan-fucking-tastic, they really did just run the fucking option! Unfuckingbelieveable!!! Did you see this fucking shit, Scott?!"

Deberg_1990
03-01-2009, 06:32 PM
No it doesn't.

Good guards can be found in the 4th round or later.

Wasnt Dave Szcott a 6th or 7th rounder?

ChiefsCountry
03-01-2009, 06:33 PM
Wasnt Dave Szcott a 6th or 7th rounder?

7th

Deberg_1990
03-01-2009, 06:35 PM
7th

Thank you. Case in point.

beavis
03-01-2009, 07:02 PM
I think every one of their first round picks for the next decade would be fair value.

The Buddha
03-01-2009, 07:21 PM
OTs don't seem to get much as far as draft picks.

Like Roaf... I'd see Waters being a 3 as well, cause he's not as good, but he's younger.

kcfanXIII
03-01-2009, 07:32 PM
lee evans would be a good down field threat. i know alot are in favor of draft picks, but can we get a wr as talented as evans in the second?

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 07:32 PM
OTs don't seem to get much as far as draft picks.

Like Roaf... I'd see Waters being a 3 as well, cause he's not as good, but he's younger.

Roaf was a left tackle and a 9 time Pro Bowler. He had much more value than a Pro Bowl left guard.

I'd guess a 5th would be the compensation for Waters.

milkman
03-01-2009, 07:43 PM
Roaf was a left tackle and a 9 time Pro Bowler. He had much more value than a Pro Bowl left guard.

I'd guess a 5th would be the compensation for Waters.

And Roaf was coming off an injury which led to question whether he could play at a high level.

Extra Point
03-01-2009, 07:49 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.

Well said.

milkman
03-01-2009, 07:53 PM
:banghead:

FAX
03-01-2009, 07:58 PM
Roaf was a left tackle and a 9 time Pro Bowler. He had much more value than a Pro Bowl left guard.

I'd guess a 5th would be the compensation for Waters.

If it were anyone other than Pioli, I might agree, Mr. DaneMcCloud. But not in this case.

I can't see Pioli giving up Waters at his age and skill level for a 5.

FAX

DaneMcCloud
03-01-2009, 07:59 PM
If it were anyone other than Pioli, I might agree, Mr. DaneMcCloud. But not in this case.

I can't see Pioli giving up Waters at his age and skill level for a 5.

FAX

If he doesn't like him or sees him as a distraction, I'd disagree.

And please, I hope I'm dead wrong!

FAX
03-01-2009, 08:03 PM
If he doesn't like him or sees him as a distraction, I'd disagree.

And please, I hope I'm dead wrong!

Well, there is that.

I have no idea how the Waters deal will eventually work out, but I can promise you this; by the time training camp rolls around, anyone who isn't fully committed to giving 100% to this team will either be gone or benched - regardless of how many pro bowls they've attended or kittens they've rescued from a fire.

FAX

Halfcan
03-01-2009, 09:09 PM
Gonzalez and Waters for a #2 and #3?

LMAO Two all Pro's for that??

2 1st rounders more like it.

Deberg_1990
03-01-2009, 09:12 PM
I have no idea how the Waters deal will eventually work out, but I can promise you this; by the time training camp rolls around, anyone who isn't fully committed to giving 100% to this team will either be gone or benched - regardless of how many pro bowls they've attended or kittens they've rescued from a fire.

FAX

True.

But Waters is pretty much like Gonzo out on the field. Nothing less than a true professional. Theres no way he plays like trash just because he doesnt like management.

wild1
03-01-2009, 09:13 PM
No it doesn't.

Good guards can be found in the 4th round or later.

Well, he's not just 'good', he played in the pro bowl 4 of the last 5 years

milkman
03-01-2009, 09:14 PM
LMAO Two all Pro's for that??

2 1st rounders more like it.

I've always said this Half.
I think you're a pretty good guy.

But unfortunately, I also think you're an idiot.

milkman
03-01-2009, 09:16 PM
Well, he's not just 'good', he played in the pro bowl 4 of the last 5 years

Regardless of his past performance, I would not give up a 3rd round or higher for a guy that doens't have many games left.

Halfcan
03-01-2009, 09:19 PM
I've always said this Half.
I think you're a pretty good guy.

But unfortunately, I also think you're an idiot.

I was being sarcastic- but at least one 1st would be in order for 2 current All Pros with a few miles left.

Would you be happy if the Chiefs traded their #1 and got a HOF TE and an All Pro linemen to boot??

Deberg_1990
03-01-2009, 09:20 PM
Well, he's not just 'good', he played in the pro bowl 4 of the last 5 years

nobody doubts hes good.

Guard just isnt a core/valued position in the NFL.

The difference between a pro-bowl guard and an average NFL guard is mostly negligible IMO.

Halfcan
03-01-2009, 09:20 PM
Regardless of his past performance, I would not give up a 3rd round or higher for a guy that doens't have many games left.

You were also against the Cassel trade. ;)

StcChief
03-01-2009, 09:32 PM
Waters wants out now, get his feeling hurt TH/F when coaches were "Busy" getting a deal and couldn't talk. WTF, I thought Brian was better than to go down this road.

DeezNutz
03-01-2009, 09:39 PM
I was being sarcastic- but at least one 1st would be in order for 2 current All Pros with a few miles left.

Would you be happy if the Chiefs traded their #1 and got a HOF TE and an All Pro linemen to boot??

I would be going full ape shit "Fall Down" style if we traded the #3 overall pick and received two players over 30, a TE and a guard, no less.

Reerun_KC
03-01-2009, 09:41 PM
Waters wants out now, get his feeling hurt TH/F when coaches were "Busy" getting a deal and couldn't talk. WTF, I thought Brian was better than to go down this road.

More than anything he wasnt, All his whining about Herm and his butthurt....


Pack up whiney boy...

MVChiefFan
03-01-2009, 09:44 PM
I've always been a fan of Waters. I think he's a good player and a great person. But, let's be honest, he hasn't exactly been great since Roaf has been gone. As for being a pro bowler I mean, c'mon, if you're an O-lineman and you make a pro bowl then it becomes all about name recognition as far as getting back there. I'm not saying he's not a good player but I wouldn't cry myself to sleep if we traded him.

Toad
03-01-2009, 09:59 PM
I don't want to see Waters go (and I hope he and Pioli work it out), but the team won't fall apart if they trade him.

Decent ESPN short on the recent "over-paying" of guards in the NFL:

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/nflnation/0-5-453/Beware-the--7-million-guard-in-free-agency.html

Ralphy Boy
03-01-2009, 10:02 PM
So if we move Waters, do we grab Monroe and slide Albert to LG?

I'd be curious to know if Brian still wants to be traded today. I mean, if you were Pioli or Haley and had to decide whether or not to say: "Hey Brian, sorry about the other day, we had a big deal going down and didn't mean any disrespect. What's on your mind?"

Would that be "giving in" or just enough to calm his cranky ass down?

PastorMikH
03-01-2009, 10:16 PM
I can see what you're trying to say here, however, if he's not a happycamper and doesn't want to be here as some reports indicate, what else can you really do?


He's upset right now, but he'll get over it. Think about it, if NFL teams let a player go everytime they got mad at the team, half the players in the NFL would be let go every season.

What choice does he have? He's signed to several more years here in KC, he can either sit out the duration of his contract or play and get over it.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 10:33 PM
None of the players the Chiefs would attempt to get rid of are remotely worth a 2, you might be able to bait some team into a 3 but with Buffalo picking at the front end of the rounds I seriously doubt you'd get more than a 4.

I think it's time for Waters to go, guards are easily replaceable, he's a mouthpiece from the past regime and obviously is not the kind of player this organization wants now going and whining to Whitlock and all.

PastorMikH
03-01-2009, 10:37 PM
None of the players the Chiefs would attempt to get rid of are remotely worth a 2, you might be able to bait some team into a 3 but with Buffalo picking at the front end of the rounds I seriously doubt you'd get more than a 4.

I think it's time for Waters to go, guards are easily replaceable, he's a mouthpiece from the past regime and obviously is not the kind of player this organization wants now going and whining to Whitlock and all.


I'd be ok with Waters leaving if we had a solid OL. But, with keeping Waters, we still could stand 3 new starters on the OL.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 10:47 PM
I'd be ok with Waters leaving if we had a solid OL. But, with keeping Waters, we still could stand 3 new starters on the OL.

When you're building a new team, one that does have young guys on it and you're bringing in a guy like Vrabel it's probably best to not have anyone pissing on management still on the team.

Frankie
03-01-2009, 10:48 PM
Tony G. and Waters for their 2nd and 3rd would be great. Then if we can find a way to get rid of LJ, we wouldn't have anymore of the spoiled babies on our team. We then could build a team.... Not just have some Pro Bowlers.

I wouldn't exactly call TG a "spoiled baby." He is a true professional. Can't believe you are putting him in a category that includes LJ. :shake:

Mecca
03-01-2009, 10:53 PM
I wouldn't exactly call TG a "spoiled baby." He is a true professional. Can't believe you are putting him in a category that includes LJ. :shake:

Well he has been whining...if you don't remember he basically said if Herm wasn't back and Thigpen wasn't the starter he didn't wanna play here.

Frankie
03-01-2009, 10:53 PM
After just watching Pioli trade our 2nd for both Cassel and Vrabel, some peeps think it's possible that we'll trade Waters for a 5?

Now I know why the Israelites built that golden calf thing while Moses' back was turned.

FAX

Once again, Mr. FAX, your wisdom is way above my mental paycheck. I am well versed in the Biblical account that you have referred to, but I fail to make the connection. For my self esteem please chalk this up to the lateness of the hour and my brain being in the full stand down mode.

Frankie
03-01-2009, 10:54 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.

We are paying Albert LT money.

PastorMikH
03-01-2009, 10:56 PM
When you're building a new team, one that does have young guys on it and you're bringing in a guy like Vrabel it's probably best to not have anyone pissing on management still on the team.



Or better yet, management quits coddling players like ours have grown accustomed to over the last 8 years. Instead, they raise the standards to let players know they won't tolerate such things. If players continue, step up and put a stop to the trouble stirring. If needed, you make an example out of the vet players that want to gripe.


Waters has been upset for less than a week - for something he was probably out of line for trying to do anyway. If he's still griping come summer, that's different. But for now, give it some time and see if he gets over it when team meetings and OTAs begin.

Frankie
03-01-2009, 10:57 PM
That'd make for one hell of a left side of the Offensive Line.
Not sure I'd do that, but talk about "protection".

Monroe was LT to Albert's LG in college. Was their left side awesome? I'm not being a wise ass, I just don't remember a lot of media hoopla about their O-line.

unothadeal
03-01-2009, 10:58 PM
How much is the difference between LT money and guard money?

Frankie
03-01-2009, 10:58 PM
A part of me thinks LJ is the least expendable of the three in the minds of Chiefs brass. Not sure why I feel that way... I just think he's gonna be here when the season opens.

LJ is the most replaceable. + TG is a team leader. LJ is a team distractor.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 10:59 PM
That Waters take might be fine if he hadn't run to Whitlock with this to try to make management look bad.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 11:00 PM
How much is the difference between LT money and guard money?

You're comparing the most important OL position and 2nd or 3rd most on the team to one of the least...so the answer is a ton.

PastorMikH
03-01-2009, 11:00 PM
Well, that would allow us to slide Albert to LG and draft one of the top LTs in this draft.



Why is it that so many Chiefs fans seem to think that Albert isn't going to cut it at LT when he actually had a decent rookie season in that position?

Mecca
03-01-2009, 11:01 PM
Why is it that so many Chiefs fans seem to think that Albert isn't going to cut it at LT when he actually had a decent rookie season in that position?

The OL obsession around here is out of hand, this team does not need to use another 1st round pick an an offensive lineman.

Frankie
03-01-2009, 11:03 PM
With all of LJ's issues there is no way this would happen. LJ and waters combined may = their 1st round pick and thats a big maybe, but not for Jason Peters as well. Why would they take Waters just to get rid Peters...

I would jump on that deal (see bolded). But I don't the Bills will.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 11:04 PM
The Bills have the 11th pick not to mention they have Marshawn Lynch and Fred Jackson so how in the world would that remotely equal a 1st rounder?

They'd 99% sure look at you and go why the fuck would we want LJ we already got 2 RB's.

BigRedChief
03-01-2009, 11:05 PM
After just watching Pioli trade our 2nd for both Cassel and Vrabel, some peeps think it's possible that we'll trade Waters for a 5?

Now I know why the Israelites built that golden calf thing while Moses' back was turned.

FAX
No kidding. There are some in the NFL that think we got such a good deal that there should be an investigation. But some how Pioli gets drunk and okays a trade of a Pro Bowler with 3 years left in him for a 5th rounder?

Mecca
03-01-2009, 11:06 PM
You are aware that he's a guard yes? He doesn't have top notch value, Cassell went for a 2 as a QB...

Frankie
03-01-2009, 11:07 PM
Waters was an undrafted free agent

And a TE to boot.

DeezNutz
03-01-2009, 11:09 PM
I'm going to fall on the floor if LJ would bring more than a Happy Meal in return.

What's the value of a 30-year-old back who won't block but will spit and throw drinks and who holds the record for rushing attempts?

Not fucking much in my world.

Mecca
03-01-2009, 11:11 PM
I'm going to fall on the floor if LJ would bring more than a Happy Meal in return.

What's the value of a 30-year-old back who won't block but will spit and throw drinks and who holds the record for rushing attempts?

Not fucking much in my world.

None of these guys have great value because of their ages attitudes and positions.

No one would draft a 22 year old guard with Waters talent at 11, so add in the fact that he's 32 and people think you can get a 2 really are you high?

Tiger's Fan
03-01-2009, 11:12 PM
If Brian Waters ever had a real job, he'd know the difference between what happened to him, and what happens when an employer shits on you in the real world.

DeezNutz
03-01-2009, 11:14 PM
None of these guys have great value because of their ages attitudes and positions.

No one would draft a 22 year old guard with Waters talent at 11, so add in the fact that he's 32 and people think you can get a 2 really are you high?

When talking about the Chiefs, sometimes perspectives get as ****ed up as if some people were talking about their own children.

Sorry, dude. Little Joey actually ****ing sucks. It's not that the coach "doesn't like you."

Same here. Sorry, but lil' LJ isn't worth a bag o' dicks, and Waters brings a late-rounder in a trade. He's a fucking guard for crying out loud. A guard.

raybec 4
03-01-2009, 11:15 PM
You are aware that he's a guard yes? He doesn't have top notch value, Cassell went for a 2 as a QB...

I really like Waters but thinking you could get anything more than a 4 for him is unrealistic IMHO.

raybec 4
03-01-2009, 11:17 PM
I'm going to fall on the floor if LJ would bring more than a Happy Meal in return.

What's the value of a 30-year-old back who won't block but will spit and throw drinks and who holds the record for rushing attempts?

Not ****ing much in my world.

Guys with less years and good attitudes, like Derrick Ward, are still unsigned, LJ won't bring a bag of balls or a bucket of chicken in a trade.

DeezNutz
03-01-2009, 11:19 PM
Guys with less years and good attitudes, like Derrick Ward, are still unsigned, LJ won't bring a bag of balls or a bucket of chicken in a trade.

But he'll bring a bag o' dicks. You have to lower your expectations.

You just can't go expecting a bag o' scrotums.

raybec 4
03-01-2009, 11:23 PM
But he'll bring a bag o' dicks. You have to lower your expectations.

You just can't go expecting a bag o' scrotums.

You're right, I guess I was wearing my Homer glasses for that one.

Sam Hall
03-01-2009, 11:27 PM
I think the Waters situation will blow over and both sides will forgive and forget.

KCChiefsFan88
03-02-2009, 12:30 AM
Lee Evans

Mecca
03-02-2009, 12:43 AM
Considering Evans just signed a new contract I'm going to go with yea right.

The Buddha
03-02-2009, 12:45 AM
Roaf was a left tackle and a 9 time Pro Bowler. He had much more value than a Pro Bowl left guard.

I'd guess a 5th would be the compensation for Waters.

And Roaf was coming off an injury which led to question whether he could play at a high level.

So... about a three? :-)

joesomebody
03-02-2009, 12:55 AM
I'd much rather see Waters and LJ leave than Gonzo. I don't want Tony to wear any uniform other than KC in his HoF career.

I suppose if Joe Montana and Brett Farve can switch teams at or near the end of their careers, then Tony most certainly can as well. Just doesn't sit well with me.

To be honest I've never liked LJ. I liked Priest and thought LJ was a horrible waste of a pick. Turns out it probably wasn't, but I wish we hadn't signed him to that long and expensive contract.

The Buddha
03-02-2009, 01:00 AM
I'd much rather see Waters and LJ leave than Gonzo. I don't want Tony to wear any uniform other than KC in his HoF career.

This is horribly selfish, and I couldn't agree more. Its like if he stays he's staying for the fans. And it seems like almost no players are playing for the fans anymore. There aren't too many players out there who stay with their original team through thick and thin.

joesomebody
03-02-2009, 01:00 AM
But he'll bring a bag o' dicks. You have to lower your expectations.

You just can't go expecting a bag o' scrotums.Can we just cut his dumb ass? How many years would we have to eat cap space if we cut him now? I am perfectly fine with Charles being our starter for this year, or fine with signing a halfway interesting free agent to compete with Charles.

I'm sick of LJ. He needs to realize that he is lucky to have a job at this point with all the bullshit he's put us through and his lack of recent production.

KCChiefsFan88
03-02-2009, 01:01 AM
Considering Evans just signed a new contract I'm going to go with yea right.

Considering the chances of Waters actually being dealt is virtually zero, I thought this was a thread of pipe dreams.

joesomebody
03-02-2009, 01:03 AM
This is horribly selfish, and I couldn't agree more. Its like if he stays he's staying for the fans. And it seems like almost no players are playing for the fans anymore. There aren't too many players out there who stay with their original team through thick and thin.True. For his sake, I'd love to see him win a Superbowl. If he has 2 or 3 years left in him, I think there is a chance that this team could make a run at it though.

Being traded to a contenter is a nice thought, but even if you ask the smartest of the smart in Vegas to help you pick the contender you want to be traded to, the chances that you choose the right team for a Superbowl run aren't good. Probably better than your odds of winning one in the next 2 to 3 as a Chief, but not a whole lot better.

The Buddha
03-02-2009, 01:08 AM
Considering the chances of Waters actually being dealt is virtually zero, I thought this was a thread of pipe dreams.

Waters shows up on the field... The Roaf effect was obvious, but he's still good. As long as he shows up, does his job, and doesn't make everyone else miserable off the field, I'm okay if he stays.

Now if he starts sucking it up or pulling some OL version of Terrell Owens... BITCHES LEAVE!!!

Ultra Peanut
03-02-2009, 03:16 AM
Then keep him. I wouldn't take less than a 1st. At all.This is a joke, right?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 03:25 AM
This is a joke, right?

I would hope so, if not he needs a lesson in value of players.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-02-2009, 05:51 AM
So if we move Waters, do we grab Monroe and slide Albert to LG?



Sweet mother of fuck.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 05:54 AM
Sweet mother of fuck.

I really don't get it, it seems like people not just Chiefs fans automatically think this team is taking Curry or an OT and that's that.

Frankie
03-02-2009, 02:38 PM
I suppose if Joe Montana and Brett Farve can switch teams at or near the end of their careers, then Tony most certainly can as well. Just doesn't sit well with me.

If TG wins a ring with another team, he almost certainly will go to HOF as a player of that team. There lies the difference between the TG and Montana situation.

Brock
03-02-2009, 02:39 PM
If TG wins a ring with another team, he almost certainly will go to HOF as a player of that team. There lies the difference between the TG and Montana situation.

You don't go to the HOF as a player of any particular team.

Frankie
03-02-2009, 02:40 PM
I really don't get it, it seems like people not just Chiefs fans automatically think this team is taking Curry or an OT and that's that.

Frankly if there's a trade down opportunity I can almost guarantee that Pioli will go that route.

Frankie
03-02-2009, 02:41 PM
You don't go to the HOF as a player of any particular team.

I think they do. That's was a big debate about Marcus Allen.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 02:41 PM
I really don't get it, it seems like people not just Chiefs fans automatically think this team is taking Curry or an OT and that's that.

If I had to bet, I'd say those are two types of moves Pioli WOULDN'T make.

Reerun_KC
03-02-2009, 02:44 PM
Is he gone yet? Whats the hold up? We will throw a box of kleenex in to sweeten the deal...

Brock
03-02-2009, 02:50 PM
I think they do. That's was a big debate about Marcus Allen.

They don't.

HemiEd
03-02-2009, 03:33 PM
He can only blame his agent for that....
ROFL

HemiEd
03-02-2009, 03:57 PM
There was most defiantly
a 3rd involved in the Welbourn trade
must have been conditional though

It was a claus based on snaps IIRC. He met the required number.