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Tribal Warfare
03-02-2009, 12:21 AM
NFL scouting combine review Top 10 (http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/football/nfl/stories/030109dnsponflcombinetop10.39e1468.html)

11:51 PM CST on Saturday, February 28, 2009

Rick Gosselin ranks the top 10 players on the draft board coming out of the scouting combine:
1. Aaron Curry

OLB, Wake Forest

The safest pick in the draft. The Butkus Award winner has the size, speed and versatility that the NFL loves. He can play any linebacker spot in a 3-4 or 4-3 scheme. Rush the passer, cover receivers, stuff the run Curry does it all. Scouts consider him a cut above 2008 NFL Defensive Rookie of the Year Jared Mayo.
2. Michael Crabtree

WR, Texas Tech

If Crabtree runs in the low 4.4s at his pro day March 26, he'll probably return to the top of the draft board. But the stress fracture in his foot that turned up on his X-rays at the combine has given the NFL cause for concern. If healthy, he's a dynamic playmaker.
3. Matthew Stafford

QB, Georgia

Franchise quarterbacks always get the benefit of the doubt on draft day and Stafford has the size and arm to join the Matt Ryans, Ben Roethlisbergers and Jay Cutlers near the top of NFL draft boards. He's skipping his senior season but started 32 college games.
4. Jason Smith

OT, Baylor

For the second consecutive year, there could be six offensive left tackles in the first round. It's just a matter of sorting them out: Jason Smith, Eugene Monroe, Andre Smith, Michael Oher, Phil Loadholt and Eben Britton. Jason Smith has the best combination of measurables and ability.
5. B.J. Raji

DT, Boston College

The NFL's top-shelf offensive and defensive linemen don't find their way into free agency, and the mediocre ones who are available are too expensive. So you have to draft them, which drives up the value of the big bodies. Raji is the best interior pass rusher in this draft.
6. Jeremy Maclin

WR, Missouri

Maclin was a Biletnikoff finalist for his play as a wide receiver in 2008, but his NFL value skyrockets with his kick return ability. He returned three career punts and two career kickoffs for touchdowns, and he led the NCAA in all-purpose yardage last season.
7. Eugene Monroe

OT, Virginia

The Kansas City Chiefs drafted Branden Albert in the first round in 2008 and started him at left tackle. But Albert didn't start at left tackle at Virginia because Monroe was a better pass protector there. Now it's Monroe's turn to be a high draft pick.
8. Peria Jerry

DT, Mississippi

Like Raji, Jerry is a dynamic interior pass rusher. He had seven sacks last season and led the Southeastern Conference in tackles for losses with 18, so he spends a lot of time in the opposition's backfield. Defensive coaches like that trait.
9. Mark Sanchez

QB, Southern California

If you can get past the fact Sanchez threw only 313 career passes, you'll like what you see in his quarterbacking skills. Matt Cassel threw only 33 college passes at the same school, and it didn't slow down his pro career.
10. Malcolm Jenkins

CB, Ohio State

The NFL covets size and physicality at the corner to match up with the jumbo jets on the flank, such as Larry Fitzgerald and Randy Moss. Jenkins has that size (6-0, 205). He also could play safety.

Direckshun
03-02-2009, 12:34 AM
If the Chiefs follow this value, Raji could be a good get at #3 overall.

I fear that Raji's moved up too quickly...

Mecca
03-02-2009, 12:42 AM
I want to know what the hell people are looking at to think Curry can play any spot in a 3-4 I think that view is dishonest.

Ultra Peanut
03-02-2009, 02:43 AM
The safest pick in the draft.AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID AVOID

rockymtnchief
03-02-2009, 09:01 AM
Crabtree at #2?:shake:

MTG#10
03-02-2009, 09:21 AM
We better take Raji.

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
I want to know what the hell people are looking at to think Curry can play any spot in a 3-4 I think that view is dishonest.

I think it's one of those things that's been repeated so often that people just assume it's true.

I've asked before, but can anyone come up with a real example of a player that played LB in a 4-3 in college and made a successful transition to 3-4 OLB?

I haven't found one.

Molitoth
03-02-2009, 10:20 AM
WTF are they thinking with Crabtree at #2?????

keg in kc
03-02-2009, 10:25 AM
Gosselin is usually pretty 'on'. He's got a lot of connections.

buddha
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
The top of this draft sucks...sorry, it just does. I'd rather trade down and pick up a guy like Oher later and pick up another trade in a later round. As for the question about 4-3 LBs converting to 3-4 LBs, the answer is almost all of them. There aren't many 3-4 teams in college (at least not the NFL version), and frankly, the 3-4 has been out of style for awhile, so there aren't many examples period.

I think some Chiefs fans look at Curry and they see Derrick Johnson. That's not what he is. Curry is much more hard core than DJ...he would be a quality starter right away. Is he going to be a superstar? I don't know.

PhillyChiefFan
03-03-2009, 09:01 AM
WTF are they thinking with Crabtree at #2?????

Media needs someone to be all over this year, and Crabtree's name came outta the hat? :shrug:

I don't know how you can rank a guy #2 in the POST COMBINE REVIEW when said guy did not even participate in the Combine

DaneMcCloud
03-03-2009, 11:57 AM
Gosselin is usually pretty 'on'. He's got a lot of connections.

He had Tank Tyler at #15 overall in 2007, one month before the draft.

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 02:31 PM
He had Tank Tyler at #15 overall in 2007, one month before the draft.

Yeah, Gosselin's stuff usually doesn't solidify until about 2 weeks before or so.

Same for Scott Wright.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 02:44 PM
WTF are they thinking with Crabtree at #2?????

Going off production rather than off-field measurements.

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 02:53 PM
I think some Chiefs fans look at Curry and they see Derrick Johnson. That's not what he is. Curry is much more hard core than DJ...he would be a quality starter right away. Is he going to be a superstar? I don't know.It's not so much that he's DJ as much as it's he plays the same position as DJ. You don't need 2 245-pound coverage backers inside in a 3-4. So either you bulk up Curry and use him as the run stuffer inside (not what you're looking for at #3) or you bulk up Curry and use him to rush the passer on the outside (something he hasn't shown he can do). Either way doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the same vein that drafting monroe and moving albert doesn't. It's double-dipping on one of the few solid positions on the roster, probably not something a team with so many holes has the luxury to do.

DaneMcCloud
03-03-2009, 02:56 PM
At this point in time, the only thing more shocking for me than the Chiefs not moving out of the third spot would be drafting Stafford or Sanchez.

After the acquisition of Cassel, I just can't see Pioli staying at #3 and not picking again for another 95+ picks. Not when there's so many offensive lineman that could immediately start in 2009.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 02:59 PM
It's not so much that he's DJ as much as it's he plays the same position as DJ. You don't need 2 245-pound coverage backers inside in a 3-4. So either you bulk up Curry and use him as the run stuffer inside (not what you're looking for at #3) or you bulk up Curry and use him to rush the passer on the outside (something he hasn't shown he can do). Either way doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the same vein that drafting monroe and moving albert doesn't. It's double-dipping on one of the few solid positions on the roster, probably not something a team with so many holes has the luxury to do.

I think that is going to happen regardless of who we pick.

It's highly unlikely we'll go qb, so let's eliminate that position. What does that leave? DL,LB,OL.

DL would be Raji or Orakpo. The former means we move Dorsey to DE or trade him. The latter plays OLB/rush end.

LB Curry would move DJ out or he/DJ would play a position not suited to their strengths (better move would be to go ahead and get the run-stuffer here, but Maualuga would be too high at #3 overall).

OT would mean LT at #3... which means Albert would have to move.

In any of those scenarios, other than rush-end/OLB, someone gets displaced.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 03:00 PM
Or, I suppose we could draft a WR. Crabtree or Maclin? Again, too high.

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 03:03 PM
It's a real bad year to pick 3. Weak top of the draft means not only do we not have a lot to choose from, it means it's going to be tough to move.

As for people moving, the fact that we're going to have to move so many people already on the roster is a reason to focus on drafting people that fit in from the start. But, as you say, we may not be able to, unless we decide to pull the trigger really early on someone like Brown or Maualuga. I think the OT pick would make the least sense of all, but that's just my opinion. It may be the best value at 3, if we're not able to move.

I wouldn't completely write off a QB, either. Stranger things have happened, and (most bizarre of all) if they can't sell the pick, they could always try to sell the player. I really doubt it happens of course.

Anyway, what a piss-poor year for our highest pick in decades.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 03:09 PM
It's a real bad year to pick 3. Weak top of the draft means not only do we not have a lot to choose from, it means it's going to be tough to move.

As for people moving, the fact that we're going to have to move so many people already on the roster is a reason to focus on drafting people that fit in from the start. But, as you say, we may not be able to, unless we decide to pull the trigger really early on someone like Brown or Maualuga. I think the OT pick would make the least sense of all, but that's just my opinion. It may be the best value at 3, if we're not able to move.

I wouldn't completely write off a QB, either. Stranger things have happened, and (most bizarre of all) if they can't sell the pick, they could always try to sell the player. I really doubt it happens of course.

Anyway, what a piss-poor year for our highest pick in decades.

Brown projects very well to the 3-4 from everything I've read. In every single scouting report on him they say he is the prototypical 3-4 OLB; compare him to Ware. They also list him pretty far down to DE & LB list. That leads me to believe he will be avaialable in the mid first to second round (barring a run on 3-4 OLB types).

We have got to trade down! I wonder what Philly thinks of Stafford/Sanchez? (doubt they'd be in the mix, but it would be great to get two lower #1 picks!)

bdeg
03-03-2009, 03:13 PM
Brown projects very well to the 3-4 from everything I've read. In every single scouting report on him they say he is the prototypical 3-4 OLB; compare him to Ware. They also list him pretty far down to DE & LB list. That leads me to believe he will be avaialable in the mid first to second round (barring a run on 3-4 OLB types).

We have got to trade down! I wonder what Philly thinks of Stafford/Sanchez? (doubt they'd be in the mix, but it would be great to get two lower #1 picks!)

He might be available later. If Pioli is unable to trade out of the pick, don't be shocked if it's Brown. Like I said in the other thread when I watch Raji I see a lot of Dorsey, and I can't help but think he could add 20 lbs and be the same player with better intangibles. If the chiefs make that evaluation, don't forget that the pats went with Jerod Mayo at 10 last year when he was projected by many to be a mid-lower first.

Chiefnj2
03-03-2009, 03:14 PM
It's not so much that he's DJ as much as it's he plays the same position as DJ. You don't need 2 245-pound coverage backers inside in a 3-4. So either you bulk up Curry and use him as the run stuffer inside (not what you're looking for at #3) or you bulk up Curry and use him to rush the passer on the outside (something he hasn't shown he can do). Either way doesn't make a whole lot of sense, in the same vein that drafting monroe and moving albert doesn't. It's double-dipping on one of the few solid positions on the roster, probably not something a team with so many holes has the luxury to do.

Why does Curry need to bulk up to rush the passer? Wasn't he 255lbs at the combine?

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 03:17 PM
Brown or Raji makes the most sense to me at this point, but Raji's off-field history (ineligibility, etc) scares me, and Brown's the kind of player that usually goes in the mid-teens.

'course, it's really only a reach if you compare it to drafts in the past, that virtually all had much more blue chip talent. And the same could be said of Curry.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 03:20 PM
Brown or Raji makes the most sense to me at this point, but Raji's off-field history (ineligibility, etc) scares me, and Brown's the kind of player that usually goes in the mid-teens.

'course, it's really only a reach if you compare it to drafts in the past, that virtually all had much more blue chip talent. And the same could be said of Curry.

From what I read his ineligibility was not his fault. He completed the summer course but they still held him out.

He sat out the 2007 season for academic issues related to the fact that he was still a course short after being told what he needed to take in summer school by the academic staff at B.C., and even after successfully taking those classes and completing them.
Strengths
Thickly built. Can show bursts of quickness off the line. Naturally strong and can anchor. Can flatten down the line of scrimmage. Playing with a fury early in 2008 after being forced to miss the entire 2007 season through no fault of his own.

link: http://cdsdraft.com/profile.php?id=1227

Chiefnj2
03-03-2009, 03:20 PM
It isn't ideal, but there are worse things than taking Monroe and having a Roaf/Shields-type OL foundation for the next decade. Not a lot of great choices this year.

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 03:23 PM
Why does Curry need to bulk up to rush the passer? Wasn't he 255lbs at the combine?Most of the better 3-4 rushers are smaller 4-3 end sized, closer to 270 than 260. They have to be big enough to stand up against the run. I'd even have Brown bulk up if it wouldn't kill his pass rush.

I wouldn't move Curry outside anyway. His skills are in coverage.

Chiefnj2
03-03-2009, 03:34 PM
Most of the better 3-4 rushers are smaller 4-3 end sized, closer to 270 than 260. They have to be big enough to stand up against the run. I'd even have Brown bulk up if it wouldn't kill his pass rush.

I wouldn't move Curry outside anyway. His skills are in coverage.

I don't think he is undersized. Harrison isn't any bigger, Okeafor is in the 240s, and Suggs weighed in at 257 in the combine.

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 03:37 PM
Like I said, I wouldn't move him anyway, regardless of whether he's undersized or not. He isn't a pass rusher. I'd keep him inside doing what he did best in college.

Chiefnj2
03-03-2009, 03:45 PM
Like I said, I wouldn't move him anyway, regardless of whether he's undersized or not. He isn't a pass rusher. I'd keep him inside doing what he did best in college.

No way. With his skills I try to turn him into a rusher. At worst it doesn't work and he can't do it and you have a great inside LB in a 3-4.

keg in kc
03-03-2009, 03:49 PM
That makes about as much sense to me as converting a safety to corner, but to each his own.

aturnis
03-03-2009, 06:24 PM
I think it's one of those things that's been repeated so often that people just assume it's true.

I've asked before, but can anyone come up with a real example of a player that played LB in a 4-3 in college and made a successful transition to 3-4 OLB?

I haven't found one.

Why does he have to play OLB? Why not ILB?

Mecca
03-03-2009, 07:47 PM
Why does he have to play OLB? Why not ILB?

The point about him not being a OLB in a 3-4 is what makes his value lower and makes him not a pass rusher...

milkman
03-03-2009, 08:19 PM
The Kansas City Chiefs drafted Branden Albert in the first round in 2008 and started him at left tackle. But Albert didn't start at left tackle at Virginia because Monroe was a better pass protector there. Now it's Monroe's turn to be a high draft pick.

That is false.

Albert played guard because he was a better run blocker than Monroe, and in Al Groh's offense that was important.

Monroe would not have even been playing if not for injury to the guy originally slated to start at LG.

Chiefnj2
03-03-2009, 09:43 PM
That is false.

Albert played guard because he was a better run blocker than Monroe, and in Al Groh's offense that was important.

Monroe would not have even been playing if not for injury to the guy originally slated to start at LG.

If you have two OL that are top 20 NFL quality players I'm sure Groh, or any other coach, would have found a way to get them on the field at the same time. I agree that I read Albert got moved inside because he adapted to it faster than Monroe did.

I still think there is a 20-30% chance KC takes Monroe with the #3 pick.

HC_Chief
03-04-2009, 08:57 AM
He might be available later. If Pioli is unable to trade out of the pick, don't be shocked if it's Brown. Like I said in the other thread when I watch Raji I see a lot of Dorsey, and I can't help but think he could add 20 lbs and be the same player with better intangibles. If the chiefs make that evaluation, don't forget that the pats went with Jerod Mayo at 10 last year when he was projected by many to be a mid-lower first.

If we somehow, some way manage to get a lower #1 & a #2, or possibly two #1s, imagine drafting Brown and Maualuga (or Laurinaitis)

HC_Chief
03-04-2009, 09:00 AM
That is false.

Albert played guard because he was a better run blocker than Monroe, and in Al Groh's offense that was important.

Monroe would not have even been playing if not for injury to the guy originally slated to start at LG.

Maybe you should email Gosselin and correct him?

eazyb81
03-05-2009, 10:40 PM
Why does he have to play OLB? Why not ILB?

Because ILB is arguably the easiest position to fill in a 3-4 scheme and not worth using a top 3 pick on.

Chiefnj2
03-06-2009, 07:11 AM
That is false.

Albert played guard because he was a better run blocker than Monroe, and in Al Groh's offense that was important.

Monroe would not have even been playing if not for injury to the guy originally slated to start at LG.

Now that I think of it, wasn't Brick playing LT when Albert was a freshman? I think that is why Albert got moved to guard. Groh wanted him in the lineup but he wasn't going to beat out Brick.

The Bad Guy
03-06-2009, 08:12 AM
The point about him not being a OLB in a 3-4 is what makes his value lower and makes him not a pass rusher...

What I find hysterical is how you keep preaching about value, and that players have to have to play a certain position to have the "value" of the 3rd pick overall.

Yet, you were all for taking Taylor Mays with the 3rd pick before he went back to school.

Now tell me, how does a safety carry the "value" of a 3rd overall pick, but taking a linebacker that doesn't rush the passer doesn't? What safety has been taken that high for you to feel so confident in taking someone like Mays?

I'm all for getting playmakers on this team. I don't care what defensive position they can play. If they can make plays, I want them.

bdeg
03-06-2009, 08:13 AM
Now that I think of it, wasn't Brick playing LT when Albert was a freshman? I think that is why Albert got moved to guard. Groh wanted him in the lineup but he wasn't going to beat out Brick.

That's right. So Albert had already learned the position, then Monroe comes in quick enough for LT but not strong enough for any other position. It was either stick with Albert at LG or put him at RT.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 08:54 AM
At this point in time, the only thing more shocking for me than the Chiefs not moving out of the third spot would be drafting Stafford or Sanchez.

After the acquisition of Cassel, I just can't see Pioli staying at #3 and not picking again for another 95+ picks. Not when there's so many offensive lineman that could immediately start in 2009.

I agree, though it takes two to tango. I'd imagine that Pioli is looking to move down.

SBK
03-06-2009, 01:58 PM
I agree, though it takes two to tango. I'd imagine that Pioli is looking to move down.

Hopefully that 2nd team shows up. Maybe Greazy Al has a viagra stiffened hard on for Crabtree and we can rake him over the coals or something. :)

Mr. Krab
03-06-2009, 04:01 PM
Gosselin was a draft genuis until he disagreed with mecca. LMAO

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2009, 04:18 PM
I agree, though it takes two to tango. I'd imagine that Pioli is looking to move down.

The point I've been trying to make in several threads is that since the Chiefs roster is so bereft of talent and there's really not a "Gamechanger" at the 3 hole, I think Pioli will trade back, regardless of the "Value Chart".

In that scenario, it's easy to get a trade partner. If a team doesn't have to mortgage its draft, it's much easier to move it. That's why I expect the Chiefs to move down at least once, if not twice.

They could easily fill their needs at WR, Center, Right Guard, Right Tackle and RB by trading back twice.Without trading back, they're going to have an extremely tough time filling the holes on the offensive line without the services of their #2 pick.

And I can't imagine Pioli & Haley spending a #2 pick and $14 million dollars cash to send Cassel out on the field behind Niswanger, Sackintosh & Jones.

Mecca
03-07-2009, 09:19 PM
What I find hysterical is how you keep preaching about value, and that players have to have to play a certain position to have the "value" of the 3rd pick overall.

Yet, you were all for taking Taylor Mays with the 3rd pick before he went back to school.

Now tell me, how does a safety carry the "value" of a 3rd overall pick, but taking a linebacker that doesn't rush the passer doesn't? What safety has been taken that high for you to feel so confident in taking someone like Mays?

I'm all for getting playmakers on this team. I don't care what defensive position they can play. If they can make plays, I want them.

In todays game there are more game changing safeties than there are non rushing LB's...

I'd take Eric Berry and Taylor Mays above any defensive player in this draft.

The Bad Guy
03-07-2009, 09:53 PM
In todays game there are more game changing safeties than there are non rushing LB's...

I'd take Eric Berry and Taylor Mays above any defensive player in this draft.

But you are the one who keeps preaching value, and how linebackers that don't rush the passer have never been successful getting taken in the top 10.

The last 4 safeties taken in the top 10 have been Roy Williams, Donte Whitner, LaRon Landry and Michael Huff.

I would argue that none of them have lived up to their hype. You keep preaching about the value of the pick, but yet would invest in the safety position that has been as successful as taking a 'non pass rushing' LB.

Mecca
03-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Huff sucks, Roy Williams got fat, Whitner and Landry however are both good.

I never said the individual player wouldn't be good I'm talking about the level of which he effects the game. Hell I could take a guard that made the pro bowl 10 times with a top 10 pick doesn't mean I got good value for my pick.

LB is the RB of defense, unless that LB has special skills, IE he rushes the passer.

The Bad Guy
03-07-2009, 09:57 PM
Also, who are the game-changing safeties?

Ed Reed and Polamalu are 2 I count.

Adrian Wilson and Kerry Rhodes are close.

Bob Sanders isn't because he can't stay on the field.

So where are all these game-changing safeties you speak of?

Mecca
03-07-2009, 09:58 PM
Adrian Wilson is only close really?

The Bad Guy
03-07-2009, 10:00 PM
Huff sucks, Roy Williams got fat, Whitner and Landry however are both good.

I never said the individual player wouldn't be good I'm talking about the level of which he effects the game. Hell I could take a guard that made the pro bowl 10 times with a top 10 pick doesn't mean I got good value for my pick.

LB is the RB of defense, unless that LB has special skills, IE he rushes the passer.

You wanted to take a safety, which has had as sketchy of a top value as any linebacker, but yet still say that the value is there for a safety.

Inside linebackers have an infinite amout of more value than guards.

The Chiefs tried plugging any warm body at MLB the last 2 years. That sure worked out well for them.

We can just agree to disagree about the value of an inside linebacker to a defense.

The Bad Guy
03-07-2009, 10:01 PM
Adrian Wilson is only close really?

What games has he changed with his play?

He's a great player, but he's not in Polamalu or Reed's league.

Mecca
03-07-2009, 10:03 PM
The value if the LB's changes in the scheme, if we were still going to play 4-3 sure but in 3-4 the emphasis is on the OLBs being rushers.

Look at all the guys some of these teams cycle in, yes the Patriots a Super Bowl team used a high pick on an ILB in the 3-4 outside of that, none of them have. I believe you find your MLB's in a 3-4 in the middle to late rounds while you use your high picks on the important positions like NT and pass rushers.

LB to me is a position like RB to many good players are taken in the later rounds to justify it going top 5.

wild1
03-08-2009, 12:21 PM
I am uneasy about a LB at #3 - in general. But if Gosselin is right that people consider him superior to Mayo then let's do it.

googlegoogle
03-09-2009, 02:16 PM
No mention of Everette Brown?