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View Full Version : Chiefs A dash of Curry solidifies Chiefs defense.


SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 07:22 AM
Obviously, the Chiefs are going to the 3-4.

Lets look at the Defensive line first. The Chiefs have a couple of guys in Boone and McBride that are DE/DT hybrids. They will be able to play DE in the 3-4. McBride has focused on staying slim while in the NFL becuse he was playing end in the 4-3. He will be allowed to Bulk up. Boone is a heck of a fit in the 3-4 as well.

Dorsey often tied up two blockers last year. He will also be allowed to go inside and outside. Perhaps not the prototypical NT... but a guy who has flexibility and will be better at NT than some in here realize. In college, he was asked to merely hold the line of scrimage. He wasn't asked to get upfield. In the 3-4, it will be very similar whether he plays end or NT.

Tank will play the nose exclusively, which should be a good fit on run downs. We also still have Ron Edwards, who is a big body that can rotate in at NT.

Now, linebacker, the OLB's are Hali and Vrabel. Hali should get double digit sacks this year with the switch to the 3-4. He won't be on the line every down which should keep the wear and tear on his body down a bit. It will allow him to be in space, which he plays well in.

I know that some don't think he is fast enough. I think those guys are foolish, but then again, they think I am foolish for thinking he will be a great fit. The great thing is that we will get to see this year who is right.

DJ will move inside. This will help DJ's game. The defensive line for the 3-4 isn't trying to get upfield. They are merely trying to hold the line of scrimage. This will allow DJ to play sideline to sideline and make more plays.

Now, the secondary was pretty good last year. Bernard Pollard will be allowed to play inside the box more and Page will be more of a traditional safety. Morgan is the x factor here because he has more ranged than Pollard and is a better tackler than Page.

The Chiefs starting corners are pretty solid with Carr and Flowers. With the additional pass rush that the Chiefs should be getting, I expect that these guys will do just fine.

Now, comes the spice of the defense.... Curry. Curry is an absolute beast that will roam the middle of the field and make tackle after tackle. Curry is good in coverage, and will be able to rush the passer from the middle of the field on blitz's. This will allow him to be more effective rushing the passer. Inside blitzes are effective because of the speed of the blitzer and a lane created by the outside rush. Curry is fast enough, that he will be able to disquise the blitzes very well and won't have to be close to the line of scrimage to be effective. Curry is the best fit for this team at #3, and will make the biggest impact of any player the Chiefs can draft IMO.

I know I will get flamed for this. I know that some think that McBride, Hali and Dorsey are busts. I think that they are players in the Patriots mold. Guys who love the game, who are smart and who never give up.

I hope that Curry somehow falls to the Chiefs, because if he does, the Chiefs will have a defense that will be at least top half of the league next year, if not top 10.

He is a dynamic leader on defense, and I think the next Ray Lewis. As such, I think he is worth the #3 pick.

Now, flame away. After having the Chiefs effectively remove the option of drafting the dirty Sanchez.... nothing can bring me down....

keg in kc
03-02-2009, 07:24 AM
Hey, just what we needed, another Curry thread combined with a Hali's going to be a stud 3-4 OLB thread.

I think it's retard day on bizarro-world.

KC Jones
03-02-2009, 07:26 AM
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Brock
03-02-2009, 07:26 AM
It amazes me what some people think is original and interesting.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 07:26 AM
Hey, just what we needed, another Curry thread combined with a Hali's going to be a stud 3-4 OLB thread.

I think it's retard day on bizarro-world.

This guy can not be serious really.

The Bad Guy
03-02-2009, 07:27 AM
I want Aaron Curry.

But there is no way he solidifies anything.

The Chiefs still need a NT, they still need another outside LB, and they still need another DE like Igor.

MGRS13
03-02-2009, 07:28 AM
This guy can not be serious really.

Serious? After he said the defense could be possible top 10 I thought he was trying for funniest post of the year. I mean this is a joke right?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 07:29 AM
Serious? After he said the defense could be possible top 10 I thought he was trying for funniest post of the year. I mean this is a joke right?

It's almost as funny as him saying Hali will be awesome as a 3-4 OLB.

The Bad Guy
03-02-2009, 07:30 AM
It's almost as funny as him saying Hali will be awesome as a 3-4 OLB.

Or that Herm is staying.

Or the hundreds of completely short bus-esque posts he's made on here.

MGRS13
03-02-2009, 07:37 AM
It's almost as funny as him saying Hali will be awesome as a 3-4 OLB.

He will be awesome as a 3-4 LB. You know when he finally gets cut from here and gets picked up by some other team for their practice squad where he gets to play 3 or 4 plays per practice. Badoom Ching..........I know I know it wasn't that funny but after this original post in this thread every thing pales in comparison.

Ultra Peanut
03-02-2009, 07:39 AM
That tears it. Curry's going to be the biggest bust since Ryan Leaf.

bowener
03-02-2009, 07:52 AM
I am curious to know what the Patriots graded Hali on draft day.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 07:56 AM
I am curious to know what the Patriots graded Hali on draft day.

Probably didn't even have him on the board as a "he didn't fit our scheme" guy.

chiefzilla1501
03-02-2009, 07:57 AM
Obviously, the Chiefs are going to the 3-4.

Lets look at the Defensive line first. The Chiefs have a couple of guys in Boone and McBride that are DE/DT hybrids. They will be able to play DE in the 3-4. McBride has focused on staying slim while in the NFL becuse he was playing end in the 4-3. He will be allowed to Bulk up. Boone is a heck of a fit in the 3-4 as well.

Dorsey often tied up two blockers last year. He will also be allowed to go inside and outside. Perhaps not the prototypical NT... but a guy who has flexibility and will be better at NT than some in here realize. In college, he was asked to merely hold the line of scrimage. He wasn't asked to get upfield. In the 3-4, it will be very similar whether he plays end or NT.

Tank will play the nose exclusively, which should be a good fit on run downs. We also still have Ron Edwards, who is a big body that can rotate in at NT.

Now, linebacker, the OLB's are Hali and Vrabel. Hali should get double digit sacks this year with the switch to the 3-4. He won't be on the line every down which should keep the wear and tear on his body down a bit. It will allow him to be in space, which he plays well in.

I know that some don't think he is fast enough. I think those guys are foolish, but then again, they think I am foolish for thinking he will be a great fit. The great thing is that we will get to see this year who is right.

DJ will move inside. This will help DJ's game. The defensive line for the 3-4 isn't trying to get upfield. They are merely trying to hold the line of scrimage. This will allow DJ to play sideline to sideline and make more plays.

Now, the secondary was pretty good last year. Bernard Pollard will be allowed to play inside the box more and Page will be more of a traditional safety. Morgan is the x factor here because he has more ranged than Pollard and is a better tackler than Page.

The Chiefs starting corners are pretty solid with Carr and Flowers. With the additional pass rush that the Chiefs should be getting, I expect that these guys will do just fine.

Now, comes the spice of the defense.... Curry. Curry is an absolute beast that will roam the middle of the field and make tackle after tackle. Curry is good in coverage, and will be able to rush the passer from the middle of the field on blitz's. This will allow him to be more effective rushing the passer. Inside blitzes are effective because of the speed of the blitzer and a lane created by the outside rush. Curry is fast enough, that he will be able to disquise the blitzes very well and won't have to be close to the line of scrimage to be effective. Curry is the best fit for this team at #3, and will make the biggest impact of any player the Chiefs can draft IMO.

I know I will get flamed for this. I know that some think that McBride, Hali and Dorsey are busts. I think that they are players in the Patriots mold. Guys who love the game, who are smart and who never give up.

I hope that Curry somehow falls to the Chiefs, because if he does, the Chiefs will have a defense that will be at least top half of the league next year, if not top 10.

He is a dynamic leader on defense, and I think the next Ray Lewis. As such, I think he is worth the #3 pick.

Now, flame away. After having the Chiefs effectively remove the option of drafting the dirty Sanchez.... nothing can bring me down....

Lots of things wrong here. Type in "Dorsey 3-4" in google and see what you get. Dorsey is not a nose tackle. Most scouts have him pegged as a 1-gap defensive tackle. He's a guy that is at his best exploding into the backfield, not a guy who should be engaging a lot of blockers. Yes, he played a lot of 2-gap in college, but he also got away with bullrushing far weaker players into the backfield in college--he won't do that in the NFL. He is also known to have fairly weak knees which is a huge knock on a guy who would play a position where leverage is king.

Second point, Hali is not an OLB. Let's stop this illusion right now. A 3-4 DE/OLB must be a "tweener." He must have the athleticism to take his hands off the ground in drop into pass coverage on many of the downs. Hali does not have that. In fact, his 40 time was absolutely miserable in the combine. Hali is pegged as a rotational DE and that's that. Keep in mind that as an OLB in the 3-4, Hali would be just as responsible for moving around as a DE as he would moving around as a LB and he is just not athletic enough to do that. Hali is not a tweener. We learned quickly when he was forced to square off against athletic, sure-footed left tackles that Hali is not nearly as fast and explosive as we thought. He's not fast, and that's a huge knock on a guy who will be playing a position where he'll have to be agile and quick.

Tank might have potential as a nose, but he also is noted to have a low motor--that's not a good attribute for a player who is taking on one of the most physically demanding positions in the game.

Finally, Curry will be great no matter where he goes. But his talent would be wasted in a 3-4. The ILBs are not the strength of a 3-4. You typically have one guy in coverage and another guy who is a pure run-stuffer. A versatile, multi-dimensional ILB goes to waste. And he is way too small to be an OLB/DE--most of those guys are DEs who convert into OLBs.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:00 AM
Lots of things wrong here. Type in "Dorsey 3-4" in google and see what you get. Dorsey is not a nose tackle. Most scouts have him pegged as a 1-gap defensive tackle. He's a guy that is at his best exploding into the backfield, not a guy who should be engaging a lot of blockers. Yes, he played a lot of 2-gap in college, but he also got away with bullrushing far weaker players into the backfield in college--he won't do that in the NFL. He is also known to have fairly weak knees which is a huge knock on a guy who would play a position where leverage is king.

Second point, Hali is not an OLB. Let's stop this illusion right now. A 3-4 DE/OLB must be a "tweener." He must have the athleticism to take his hands off the ground in drop into pass coverage on many of the downs. Hali does not have that. In fact, his 40 time was absolutely miserable in the combine. Hali is pegged as a rotational DE and that's that. Keep in mind that as an OLB in the 3-4, Hali would be just as responsible for moving around as a DE as he would moving around as a LB and he is just not athletic enough to do that. Hali is not a tweener. We learned quickly when he was forced to square off against athletic, sure-footed left tackles that Hali is not nearly as fast and explosive as we thought. He's not fast, and that's a huge knock on a guy who will be playing a position where he'll have to be agile and quick.

Tank might have potential as a nose, but he also is noted to have a low motor--that's not a good attribute for a player who is taking on one of the most physically demanding positions in the game.

Finally, Curry will be great no matter where he goes. But his talent would be wasted in a 3-4. The ILBs are not the strength of a 3-4. You typically have one guy in coverage and another guy who is a pure run-stuffer. A versatile, multi-dimensional ILB goes to waste. And he is way too small to be an OLB/DE--most of those guys are DEs who convert into OLBs.

Nice post, zilla. You just smacked some sense into this Chiefs fan with your updated draft chart. :)

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:01 AM
You'll never convince him man, he's spending an entire thread saying Hali is a playmaker and is fluid.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:02 AM
I want Aaron Curry.

But there is no way he solidifies anything.

The Chiefs still need a NT, they still need another outside LB, and they still need another DE like Igor.

They do need another OLB, because Vrabel is on his last legs. They will need a DE because Boone has only a couple of years left.

As far as NT, they don't have the prototypical guy on the roster, BUT, teams often have to play without prototypical guys at ever position. And, I think Tank and Dorsey will be fine there.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:03 AM
Dorsey is not a nose and Hali is not a OLB those are just facts.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:05 AM
Serious? After he said the defense could be possible top 10 I thought he was trying for funniest post of the year. I mean this is a joke right?

Nope. No joke. Two years ago, the Chiefs were in the top half of the league with less talent.

I know they had Jared Allen, and he was a great player. And, no player on the Chiefs defense is that kind of stud.

But, I think the 3-4 fits the players pretty well and Curry, IMO is the next Ray Lewis. So, yeah, I think top 10 is possible.

But, I think top 15 is likely.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:06 AM
They do need another OLB, because Vrabel is on his last legs. They will need a DE because Boone has only a couple of years left.

As far as NT, they don't have the prototypical guy on the roster, BUT, teams often have to play without prototypical guys at ever position. And, I think Tank and Dorsey will be fine there.

Boone has a couple of years left doing what? Being a mediocre rotational player?

If Dorsey lines up as the NT in a 3-4, it's going to look like a midget tossing contest.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 08:06 AM
A flat footed DE at OLB? Interesting, you may be onto something SensibleChiefsfan, keep up the good work.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:06 AM
Teams with no pass rushers always do awesome!

This team needs a nose and 2 OLB pass rushers 3 of the most important things for a 3-4 so where is this um personnel?

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:08 AM
Teams with no pass rushers always do awesome!

This team needs a nose and 2 OLB pass rushers 3 of the most important things for a 3-4 so where is this um personnel?

Herm's going to ride back into town on his white horse, assume the currently unfilled DC position, and fix this D once and for all.

Right, Sensible? Let Herm see this thing through?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:09 AM
Herm's going to ride back into town on his white horse, assume the currently unfilled DC position, and fix this D once and for all.

Right, Sensible? Let Herm see this thing through?

That would end with Todd Haley killing him on the sideline, oh shit bring him back I'd pay to see that.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:13 AM
That would end with Todd Haley killing him on the sideline, oh shit bring him back I'd pay to see that.

After how Haley bitch slapped Waters in the hallway, I would have paid to hear how Herm's "interview" with Pioli went.

So, it says here that you've won 2 games. Uh, huh. Yeah. Well, uh, it still says 2 games here. 85 percent, uhhhhhhh huhhhhh. Yeah. And when will this 85 percent actually, you know, win?

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:13 AM
Dorsey is not a nose and Hali is not a OLB those are just facts.

I love your 'facts'.

Do I think Dorsey was the prototypical NT last year? No.

However, he has not had an offseason to bulk up to play the NT in the 3-4. I also saw him occupy two blockers quite a bit last season, which is the job of the NT.

I think he will be far better than you give him credit for. That is IF the Chiefs want to leave him as a full time NT, which I am not sure is the best use of his talents.

I think he will swing inside and outside.

As far as Hali goes, lets see how your 'facts' about him stack up come december.

Demonpenz
03-02-2009, 08:15 AM
hali is going to be an excellent rush backer, teams are going to be overwhellemed by his power, speed, instincts, and moves.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 08:16 AM
As far as Hali goes, lets see how your 'facts' about him stack up come december.

Fact- Hali is so flat footed he sticks to the shower floor.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:18 AM
I really thought there were just things that were acknowledged as common knowledge, I think Sensible is the only person on this forum that would think Hali can play in the 3-4...

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:23 AM
Herm's going to ride back into town on his white horse, assume the currently unfilled DC position, and fix this D once and for all.

Right, Sensible? Let Herm see this thing through?

Herm has never been a DC, and I don't think he would make a very good one.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:24 AM
I really thought there were just things that were acknowledged as common knowledge, I think Sensible is the only person on this forum that would think Hali can play in the 3-4...

This forum. LOL. I am really worried about going against this forum. Oh no, how could I possibly go against the brilliant minds in here.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:25 AM
Find me one guy in a 3-4 that is remotely similar to Tamba Hali.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:28 AM
Find me one guy in a 3-4 that is remotely similar to Tamba Hali.

Similar how? How could I simplify it enough that you could comprehend it?

Do you want size? Do you want 40 yard dash times. What 'measurable' will help you to understand.

I understand where your knowlege comes from. It is measurables and how this player or that player compares to a similar player on paper. Fortunately for me, football is played on the field... not paper.

So, tell me... what measurable do you want me to work with?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:29 AM
I just remembered I can't ask you this question because you think Hali is a fluid athletic playmaker.

So I'd probably get some hilarious comparison like Terrell Suggs.

Reaper16
03-02-2009, 08:30 AM
Oh no, how could I possibly go against the brilliant minds in here.
Um, you can't?

RINGLEADER
03-02-2009, 08:32 AM
I want Aaron Curry.

But there is no way he solidifies anything.

The Chiefs still need a NT, they still need another outside LB, and they still need another DE like Igor.

Bully.

I will say the good thing about where we are is that the offense should be very close provided we don't start trading away our best players.

RINGLEADER
03-02-2009, 08:34 AM
BTW, FTR, Hali is a borderline bust irrespective of the system. He might be an OK situational guy when he has a real DE (ala a Jared Allen type) on the opposite side but he is never going to be a Jared Allen type. He reminds me more of Eric Hicks (without the 15 sack season).

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:35 AM
BTW, FTR, Hali is a borderline bust irrespective of the system. He might be an OK situational guy when he has a real DE (ala a Jared Allen type) on the opposite side but he is never going to be a Jared Allen type. He reminds me more of Eric Hicks (without the 15 sack season).

What are you talkin about man Sensible told me that Cromartie was no better than Hali.

Brock
03-02-2009, 08:37 AM
So, tell me... what measurable do you want me to work with?

Let's start with slow and out of position.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-02-2009, 08:38 AM
Now, comes the spice of the defense.... Curry. Curry is an absolute beast that will roam the middle of the field and make tackle after tackle. Curry is good in coverage, and will be able to rush the passer from the middle of the field on blitz's. This will allow him to be more effective rushing the passer. Inside blitzes are effective because of the speed of the blitzer and a lane created by the outside rush. Curry is fast enough, that he will be able to disquise the blitzes very well and won't have to be close to the line of scrimage to be effective. Curry is the best fit for this team at #3, and will make the biggest impact of any player the Chiefs can draft IMO.

I hope that Curry somehow falls to the Chiefs, because if he does, the Chiefs will have a defense that will be at least top half of the league next year, if not top 10.

He is a dynamic leader on defense, and I think the next Ray Lewis. As such, I think he is worth the #3 pick.

Now, flame away. After having the Chiefs effectively remove the option of drafting the dirty Sanchez.... nothing can bring me down....

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/middlehead/avatars/Wrestling/HHHATE.gif

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:39 AM
And mix in a dash of lackluster athleticism.

beach tribe
03-02-2009, 08:44 AM
Derrick Johnson does not take on blocks, so what makes you think moving inside will improve his game?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:46 AM
Derrick Johnson does not take on blocks, so what makes you think moving inside will improve his game?

Well OLB's in a 3-4 have to beat OT's so he surely isn't gonna be good at that...

beach tribe
03-02-2009, 08:46 AM
LOL. HOLY SHIT. WE'RE a TOP 10 D NOW??????

BigChiefFan
03-02-2009, 08:46 AM
Wow. An advocate for drafting a 3-4 MLBer in the top 3 equals epic fail.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 08:48 AM
LOL. HOLY SHIT. WE'RE a TOP 10 D NOW??????

It's the natural progression from #31 and 10 fucking sacks.

Demonpenz
03-02-2009, 08:51 AM
it is going to take years to fix this D. As ususal some people don't want to give up on guys they know and got attachment too. The fact is Tamba and Derrick johnson suck

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:51 AM
Wow. An advocate for drafting a 3-4 MLBer in the top 3 equals epic fail.

Actuallly, it is ILB in a 3-4 which is different than an MLB.

BigChiefFan
03-02-2009, 08:54 AM
Actuallly, it is ILB in a 3-4 which is different than an MLB.ROFL

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 08:54 AM
it is going to take years to fix this D. As ususal some people don't want to give up on guys they know and got attachment too. The fact is Tamba and Derrick johnson suck

Derrick Johnson needs to go. And, he will in due time. He will be more effective in the 3-4 because the defensive line will not be trying to get upfield, and DJ will see less blockers. He will be able to use his talent to play sideline to sideline. But, please don't think I am a fan of DJ. I didn't want them to draft him and I don't think he is any better today than I did then.

I dissagree on Hali. I think Hali will be very good, and will be one of the foundational pieces of the Chiefs defense.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 08:55 AM
If you believe in Derrick Johnson at all, which I personally don't, Curry isn't really who you should be picking since they'd play the same 3-4 position.

BigChiefFan
03-02-2009, 08:59 AM
Yea, maybe you should tell us if he's the Mike candidate or the TED. Then once, you figure that out, then you can maybe look it up, that is NOT ADVISED to spend top money on either position.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:00 AM
If you believe in Derrick Johnson at all, which I personally don't, Curry isn't really who you should be picking since they'd play the same 3-4 position.

#1) I am not a DJ fan. Never have been. Understood 'why' the Chiefs took him, just never thought he would be a great player.

#2) DJ and Curry are NOT the same player. Curry is a solid tackler that sheds blocks and blows up plays. He is not a coverage linebacker that runs around blocks. He is also an emotional leader on the field.

#3) You need two ILB's. That is the meaning of 3-4, and BOTH have to be able to cover sideline to sideline.

Perhaps you don't understand the 3-4, but you can rush either OLB, and that shifts one ILB into a pseudo MLB role and one into a pseudo OLB role, depending on the formation and which OLB was rushed.

You need two guys that are good in coverage. You need two guys that can make plays all over the field.

That is why most ILB's are not as big as typical MLB's.

Dave Lane
03-02-2009, 09:01 AM
That would end with Todd Haley killing him on the sideline, oh shit bring him back I'd pay to see that.

I'd rep this if I wasn't out of rep :)

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:02 AM
If you put Curry and DJ up the middle of this 3-4 without a NT they are both going to die.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:08 AM
If the Chiefs take Curry, they're likely still going to need TWO OLB's, because he's an ILB in a 3-4. If they take him, so be it, but I really hope they don't expect him to play OLB in a 3-4.

Chief Faithful
03-02-2009, 09:09 AM
They do need another OLB, because Vrabel is on his last legs. They will need a DE because Boone has only a couple of years left.

As far as NT, they don't have the prototypical guy on the roster, BUT, teams often have to play without prototypical guys at ever position. And, I think Tank and Dorsey will be fine there.

Vrabel also can play inside so why not let Curry show if he can play outside first and if not then move him inside.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:11 AM
Vrabel also can play inside so why not let Curry show if he can play outside first and if not then move him inside.

He can't play outside in a 3-4, 3-4 OLBs are like athletic DE's he's not a pass rusher.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:11 AM
#1) I am not a DJ fan. Never have been. Understood 'why' the Chiefs took him, just never thought he would be a great player.

#2) DJ and Curry are NOT the same player. Curry is a solid tackler that sheds blocks and blows up plays. He is not a coverage linebacker that runs around blocks. He is also an emotional leader on the field.

#3) You need two ILB's. That is the meaning of 3-4, and BOTH have to be able to cover sideline to sideline.

Perhaps you don't understand the 3-4, but you can rush either OLB, and that shifts one ILB into a pseudo MLB role and one into a pseudo OLB role, depending on the formation and which OLB was rushed.

You need two guys that are good in coverage. You need two guys that can make plays all over the field.

That is why most ILB's are not as big as typical MLB's.

Agree 100% on almost every account.

3-4 ILB's essentially need to be nickel backers. I think DJ and Curry are both suited, Curry perfectly so, to be 3-4 ILB's.

The problem is that we have the #3 overall pick. I've said it before, we picked the wrong year to go 2-14.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:12 AM
If the Chiefs take Curry, they're likely still going to need TWO OLB's, because he's an ILB in a 3-4. If they take him, so be it, but I really hope they don't expect him to play OLB in a 3-4.

I still think if you wanted a ILB this bad you'd be better off moving and taking Maualuga who I personally feel is a much better fit for a 3-4.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:15 AM
If you put Curry and DJ up the middle of this 3-4 without a NT they are both going to die.

I know you think so.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:16 AM
I know you think so.

I'd love to watch Derrick Johnson try to handle a guard, it would be good for laughs.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:18 AM
Agree 100% on almost every account.

3-4 ILB's essentially need to be nickel backers. I think DJ and Curry are both suited, Curry perfectly so, to be 3-4 ILB's.

The problem is that we have the #3 overall pick. I've said it before, we picked the wrong year to go 2-14.

Seriously, if the Ravens had the chance to take Ray Lewis at #3 and they had to take him at #3 or he would be gone, would they do it? I think so.

Would you take the defensive rookie of the year last year at #3? I would.

Lets look at another position... safety.

I would never want to consider a safety at #3 overall. But, if I am sitting there and I know Ed Reed will be Ed Reed, and I have the #3 pick... do I take him?

I think some players are bigger than the position they play.


I think Curry is one of those guys.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:19 AM
The Ravens drafted another player over Lewis themselves...just remember that.

Chief Faithful
03-02-2009, 09:21 AM
He can't play outside in a 3-4, 3-4 OLBs are like athletic DE's he's not a pass rusher.

How do you know he can't pass rush he was not asked to in College? He has the size and if he is as athletic as everyone says then he should be able to handle the job. When I watch NFL network analysis every pundit thinks the guy has the ability to be a good pass rusher so why are you more of an authority?

My point was Vrabel gives them the flexibility to find out what Curry can do. Currently I'm more interested in BJ although that could change as I learn more about him.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:22 AM
And here we go again when a guy finishes his 4 year college career with 9 sacks he's not a pass rusher.

Anyone who says without a doubt he can rush the passer is at best being dishonest.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:22 AM
I'd love to watch Derrick Johnson try to handle a guard, it would be good for laughs.

You really don't get it.

Now, for the record, I think Tank and Ron Edwards will see time at the nose on run downs. I think that is the only way to keep Dorsey fresh.

But, with Boone on one side and McBride on the other, the Chiefs will be able to occupy the offensive line.

DJ won't see many guards.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
Seriously, if the Ravens had the chance to take Ray Lewis at #3 and they had to take him at #3 or he would be gone, would they do it? I think so.

Would you take the defensive rookie of the year last year at #3? I would.

Lets look at another position... safety.

I would never want to consider a safety at #3 overall. But, if I am sitting there and I know Ed Reed will be Ed Reed, and I have the #3 pick... do I take him?

I think some players are bigger than the position they play.

I think Curry is one of those guys.

Ray Lewis wasn't Ray Lewis coming out of college.

And I would absolutely take a premier safety at #3.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
Your concept of how to build a defense is so completely different than mine, you are expecting guys to just do things they aren't suited to do, that'll be fun.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 09:23 AM
You really don't get it.

Now, for the record, I think Tank and Ron Edwards will see time at the nose on run downs. I think that is the only way to keep Dorsey fresh.

But, with Boone on one side and McBride on the other, the Chiefs will be able to occupy the offensive line.

DJ won't see many guards.

So the same crop of dog shit is going to be miraculously transformed in the 3-4? Are you kidding?

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 09:24 AM
Are we going to have to deal with a new Curry thread every day now?

This shit is mind-numbing.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:24 AM
And here we go again when a guy finishes his 4 year college career with 9 sacks he's not a pass rusher.

Anyone who says without a doubt he can rush the passer is at best being dishonest.


And, anyone who says he isn't a pass rusher is being equally dishonest. Especially from a fans perspective.

Clearly, he has not demonstrated his pass rush much in college. That is not to say he 'can't' do it.

I just think he is a MUCH better fit at ILB in the 3-4. And, when he rushes the passer from the ILB position, his speed will be his most important asset.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:24 AM
I still think if you wanted a ILB this bad you'd be better off moving and taking Maualuga who I personally feel is a much better fit for a 3-4.

Lauranitis could play in a 3-4 too. He's not nearly the player Curry is, but for value, trading back and taking one of those guys makes alot more sense.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:24 AM
So the same crop of dog shit is going to be miraculously transformed in the 3-4? Are you kidding?

He thinks all the Chiefs players are really talented apparently...it's pretty funny.

If you put Ron Edwards at nose in a 3-4 he is going to get killed and your ILBs are going to get flat backed.

Chief Faithful
03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
Seriously, if the Ravens had the chance to take Ray Lewis at #3 and they had to take him at #3 or he would be gone, would they do it? I think so.

Would you take the defensive rookie of the year last year at #3? I would.

Lets look at another position... safety.

I would never want to consider a safety at #3 overall. But, if I am sitting there and I know Ed Reed will be Ed Reed, and I have the #3 pick... do I take him?

I think some players are bigger than the position they play.


I think Curry is one of those guys.

That would be a reason to take Curry. Plus, if he is that kind of player then he could handle playing ILB or OLB.

BigChiefFan
03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
My goodness, we aren't one friggin inside LBer away. I've been saying it for months, but Raji is the pick.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:25 AM
Lauranitis could play in a 3-4 too. He's not nearly the player Curry is, but for value, trading back and taking one of those guys makes alot more sense.

I think he's way to finesse to be a 3-4 guy, JL to me is a cover 2 style player.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 09:26 AM
He thinks all the Chiefs players are really talented apparently...it's pretty funny.

If you put Ron Edwards at nose in a 3-4 he is going to get killed and your ILBs are going to get flat backed.

I honestly have to think about what would constitute a worse front 3 than Boone, Edwards, and McBride.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:26 AM
That would be a reason to take Curry. Plus, if he is that kind of player then he could handle playing ILB or OLB.

Tell me what 3-4 OLB played OLB in college....they're DE/LB tweeners that would have been ends in 4-3s.

Aaron Curry is not that.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:27 AM
So the same crop of dog shit is going to be miraculously transformed in the 3-4? Are you kidding?

These guys are not without talent.

Seriously, it takes putting these guys in the right positions to win.

The Chiefs had a glut of DT's last year. Boone, Edwards, Dorsey, and Tank are all viable starters on most teams. Turk McBride fits a 3-4 DE best or a 4-3 under tackle.

Boone and McBride are natural fits at DE in the 3-4.

And, Dorsey is a better option than guys who merely look at the measurables will ever understand.

Chief Faithful
03-02-2009, 09:28 AM
And here we go again when a guy finishes his 4 year college career with 9 sacks he's not a pass rusher.

Anyone who says without a doubt he can rush the passer is at best being dishonest.

All right answer me this, how does a LB get a sack while dropping back in coverage? Did you miss how he is known as a coverage LB? The guy was not asked to rush the QB in college.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:29 AM
Ron Edwards a viable starter on most teams lol...

If these guys were nearly as good as you are saying they are this defense would not be this bad.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
All right answer me this, how does a LB get a sack while dropping back in coverage? Did you miss how he is known as a coverage LB? The guy was not asked to rush the QB in college.

Which means he doesn't rush the passer right? Rushing the passer is something you can't just teach someone to do, if it was a premier pass rusher wouldn't be valued like he's gold...think about that.

BigChiefFan
03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
These guys are not without talent.

Seriously, it takes putting these guys in the right positions to win.

The Chiefs had a glut of DT's last year. Boone, Edwards, Dorsey, and Tank are all viable starters on most teams. Turk McBride fits a 3-4 DE best or a 4-3 under tackle.

Boone and McBride are natural fits at DE in the 3-4.

And, Dorsey is a better option than guys who merely look at the measurables will ever understand.Yea, so much talent that we got carved up on the ground every week.

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
All right answer me this, how does a LB get a sack while dropping back in coverage? Did you miss how he is known as
a coverage LB? The guy was not asked to rush the QB in college.

Until someone gives an example of a player that played LB in college and successfully made the transition to 3-4 OLB, the point is moot.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:30 AM
Your concept of how to build a defense is so completely different than mine, you are expecting guys to just do things they aren't suited to do, that'll be fun.


No.... your concept of what guys are suited to do is the problem.

But, what do I expect, you told everyone that Sanchez was going to be great at the combine throwing because physical tools were never the issue.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:31 AM
I think he's way to finesse to be a 3-4 guy, JL to me is a cover 2 style player.

He's got the range you look for in a 3-4 ILB. What he doesn't have is the killer instinct, at least not this past season.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 09:32 AM
These guys are not without talent.

Seriously, it takes putting these guys in the right positions to win.

The Chiefs had a glut of DT's last year. Boone, Edwards, Dorsey, and Tank are all viable starters on most teams. Turk McBride fits a 3-4 DE best or a 4-3 under tackle.

Boone and McBride are natural fits at DE in the 3-4.

And, Dorsey is a better option than guys who merely look at the measurables will ever understand.

Dorsey aside, the rest of that list is made up of rotational players at best. Those guys wouldn't and won't anchor a top 10 unit.

There is a supreme lack of overall talent on this roster. 10 sacks, 2 wins, multiple 300 yard rushing games of the opposition. However you want to measure, it's not good.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Until someone gives an example of a player that played LB in college and successfully made the transition to 3-4 OLB, the point is moot.

Donnie Edwards played OLB in the 3-4, just off the top of my head. He played ILB and OLB in the 3-4, as well as MLB and OLB in the 4-3.

But, for the record, I do not want Curry playing OLB in the 3-4.

ChiefsCountry
03-02-2009, 09:32 AM
The problem is that we have the #3 overall pick. I've said it before, we picked the wrong year to go 2-14.

I think it was fine but the Chiefs pulled a typical Chiefs move and now the #3 pick is pretty much worthless now.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Until someone gives an example of a player that played LB in college and successfully made the transition to 3-4 OLB, the point is moot.

I brought that up a bit ago, I want an example, 3-4 OLB's are converted DE's not traditional backers "taught" to rush the passer.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:34 AM
Dorsey aside, the rest of that list is made up of rotational players at best. Those guys wouldn't and won't anchor a top 10 unit.

No, not 'anchor'.... the anchor of a unit has to be its strength. In this scenario, the Chiefs strength would be their linebackers.

But, the defensive line would be better than some in here will realize until it happens.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:34 AM
These guys are not without talent.

Seriously, it takes putting these guys in the right positions to win.

The Chiefs had a glut of DT's last year. Boone, Edwards, Dorsey, and Tank are all viable starters on most teams. Turk McBride fits a 3-4 DE best or a 4-3 under tackle.

Boone and McBride are natural fits at DE in the 3-4.

And, Dorsey is a better option than guys who merely look at the measurables will ever understand.

Boone and McBride are natural fits for BACKUP DE in the 3-4. We'd still need starters.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:35 AM
The Chiefs LB's would be their strength?

So a team with no pass rushing LB's in a 3-4 would be their strength?

JohnnyV13
03-02-2009, 09:35 AM
I didn't know that Obama's economic strategist was a Chiefs fan.....

No wonder Wall Street is tanking. Sensible is posting on CP while he should be spending another trillion or two.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:35 AM
Boone and McBride are natural fits for BACKUP DE in the 3-4. We'd still need starters.

And we have no nose at all which is by far the most important line position.

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 09:36 AM
Donnie Edwards played OLB in the 3-4, just off the top of my head. He played ILB and OLB in the 3-4, as well as MLB and OLB in the 4-3.

But, for the record, I do not want Curry playing OLB in the 3-4.

Donnie Edwards played ILB in the 3-4 and teams don't spend premium draft picks on 3-4 ILB unless they're the Patriots and they're loaded everywhere already.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Donnie Edwards played ILB in the 3-4 and teams don't spend premium draft picks on 3-4 ILB unless they're the Patriots and they're loaded everywhere already.

He played both.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 09:37 AM
Boone and McBride are natural fits for BACKUP DE in the 3-4. We'd still need starters.

Thank you.

The Chiefs LB's would be their strength?

So a team with no pass rushing LB's in a 3-4 would be their strength?

The LB's were the biggest liability on a terrible unit last season. DJ is a supreme disappointment, and, even if Curry is the greatest thing ever to step foot on a field, he alone won't make the LB corp the strength of this team in a 3-4.

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 09:38 AM
He played both.

No he didn't. He may have played there in an emergency but he was primarily an ILB.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:38 AM
No he didn't. He may have played there in an emergency but he was primarily an ILB.

I'm going to tell you right now you're going to go in a huge circle now.

Mr. Krab
03-02-2009, 09:38 AM
Even if we draft Curry we still need another good linebacker to run a 3-4. We also don't know if Vrabel can handle a full time load anymore. I also don't know if Tamba Hali can even play in a 3-4.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:39 AM
He played both.

I don't believe he played more than a few downs at OLB in San Diego.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Even if we draft Curry we still need another good linebacker to run a 3-4. We also don't know if Vrabel can handle a full time load anymore. I also don't know if Tamba Hali can even play in a 3-4.

Tamba Hali has a couple fans left.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Even if we draft Curry we still need another good linebacker to run a 3-4. We also don't know if Vrabel can handle a full time load anymore. I also don't know if Tamba Hali can even play in a 3-4.

If we draft Curry, we need TWO.

DJ is an ILB. Curry is an ILB. Vrabel is a spot player at this point. Hali MIGHT be able to play OLB in a situational role. If we draft Curry, we need two starting OLB's.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:41 AM
No he didn't. He may have played there in an emergency but he was primarily an ILB.

He was primarily an ILB in the 3-4, which was the best fit for him. But, he did play outside for a full season in the 3-4.

But, again, we don't dissagree that Curry's best fit is at ILB. We also don't dissagree that Donnie's best fit was at ILB.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:41 AM
Tamba Hali has a couple fans left.

Fans? Not really.

You can't throw everybody away in one offseason, especially somebody that we spent a 1st-rounder on.

Be realistic.

SenselessChiefsFan
03-02-2009, 09:42 AM
Donnie Edwards played ILB in the 3-4 and teams don't spend premium draft picks on 3-4 ILB unless they're the Patriots and they're loaded everywhere already.

You are right... teams don't. And, most of the time they shouldn't.

In this case, I think it is the player that makes the most sense.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
If we draft Curry, we need TWO.

DJ is an ILB. Curry is an ILB. Vrabel is a spot player at this point. Hali MIGHT be able to play OLB in a situational role. If we draft Curry, we need two starting OLB's.

In sum, then, we wouldn't have addressed the 3 most important positions in a 3-4. But, by all means, Curry makes sense in every other respect.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
Fans? Not really.

You can't throw everybody away in one offseason, especially somebody that we spent a 1st-rounder on.

Be realistic.

I don't care where he was picked when you change regimes who bring new schemes guys who don't fit gotta go.

Mr. Krab
03-02-2009, 09:43 AM
If we draft Curry, we need TWO.

DJ is an ILB. Curry is an ILB. Vrabel is a spot player at this point. Hali MIGHT be able to play OLB in a situational role. If we draft Curry, we need two starting OLB's.If you make the assumption that Vrabel can't handle a full load then we need two. I was giving him the benefit of the doubt until i actually see him play here. We definitely need to be grooming Vrabel's replacement asap.

ChiefsCountry
03-02-2009, 09:44 AM
When did Edwards play OLB in the 3-4 for the Chargers?
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sdg/2004_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sdg/2005_roster.htm
http://www.pro-football-reference.com/teams/sdg/2006_roster.htm

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:44 AM
They need a nose tackle more than anything...the rush backers can be had in many places if you look around you'll see plenty of examples the nose however is much harder to find.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:47 AM
Also if this team is going to try to make an exception for a player that doesn't really fit the defense its Dorsey not Hali from everything to natural talent to contract numbers.

Mr. Krab
03-02-2009, 09:48 AM
Which do we need more Curry or Raji?

I wonder which player is ranked higher on the Chiefs' board.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:49 AM
Which do we need more Curry or Raji?

I wonder which player is ranked higher on the Chiefs' board.

Raji plays the much more valued position.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:54 AM
I don't care where he was picked when you change regimes who bring new schemes guys who don't fit gotta go.

Not at all at once, they don't.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:55 AM
In sum, then, we wouldn't have addressed the 3 most important positions in a 3-4. But, by all means, Curry makes sense in every other respect.

It's not rocket science, is it? :thumb:

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 09:56 AM
Okay, first off; Spit Bubble salutes you, Nonsensical Chiefs Fan! He appreciates your advocacy and continued support!

Second,
Dorsey, Flowers, Carr, and Leggitt; that is our defense. That is it,and there ain't no more.

Much roster to fill. Much.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 09:58 AM
Also if this team is going to try to make an exception for a player that doesn't really fit the defense its Dorsey not Hali from everything to natural talent to contract numbers.

They're going to have to make SEVERAL exceptions if they plan on going 3-4 right away.

None of our existing DL would be ideal starters in a 3-4. Some of them might be backups at various positions, but we have no starters.

DJ is a starting ILB in a 3-4. Other than him and Vrabel (who might be a backup at this point) we have no starters at LB, either.

Pollard MIGHT be a decent SS in a pressure D. Page has no position, and both of our CB's are zone guys who might struggle in a pressure D.

By my count, your scenario of not making exceptions would require us to get TEN new defensive players this offseason. That's not going to happen.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:00 AM
Okay, first off; Spit Bubble salutes you, Nonsensical Chiefs Fan! He appreciates your advocacy and continued support!

Second,
Dorsey, Flowers, Carr, and Leggitt; that is our defense. That is it,and there ain't no more.

Much roster to fill. Much.

Dorsey isn't the ideal fit for the 3-4 and both Flowers and Carr are zone CB's vs. pressure guys.

If we were going to field the IDEAL 3-4 D, we should probably replace everybody.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 10:01 AM
Tamba Hali is the guy that immediately jumps out to me as having no 3-4 position more so than anyone else...the other guys you may sort of get by for a year.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-02-2009, 10:02 AM
If we were going to field the IDEAL 3-4 D, we should probably replace everybody.

Which is why I was against this move.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:03 AM
Tamba Hali is the guy that immediately jumps out to me as having no 3-4 position more so than anyone else...the other guys you may sort of get by for a year.

Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

You need rotational guys regardless of scheme and I do think Hali can do spot duty at OLB. SPOT duty.

ncCHIEFfan
03-02-2009, 10:03 AM
Tamba Hali is the guy that immediately jumps out to me as having no 3-4 position more so than anyone else...the other guys you may sort of get by for a year.

THIS!

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:04 AM
Which is why I was against this move.

I'm not keen on changing schemes when we're this young. Makes the last 3 years a COMPLETE waste instead of a partial one.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 10:05 AM
Well, we'll have to agree to disagree.

You need rotational guys regardless of scheme and I do think Hali can do spot duty at OLB. SPOT duty.

I'd agree if he did anything well, ran well, played the run well something..

Hell I think Brian Johnston has a better shot of being a 3-4 role guy out there than Hali does.

Now I think Flowers will be fine, and I don't particularly like the safeties and most of the front 7 needed to be replaced anyway.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 10:05 AM
i dont think it matters about curry. KC will see who has a hardon for QB and trade down in the 1st and p/u some pick(s) in the later rounds.
some team/gm/coach/owner will reach for our pick.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:05 AM
i dont think it matters about curry. KC will see who has a hardon for QB and trade down in the 1st and p/u some pick(s) in the later rounds.
some team/gm/coach/owner will reach for our pick.

I hope you're right.

My ideal scenario would be trading down, picking up a 2nd round pick or more, and still getting a good LB or DL.

blueballs
03-02-2009, 10:06 AM
Not even the Star would go with
a dash of Curry

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:07 AM
It's not rocket science, is it? :thumb:

Nope.

But you'd never know that from reading this forum sometimes. :D

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:07 AM
Herm's going to ride back into town on his white horse, assume the currently unfilled DC position, and fix this D once and for all.

Right, Sensible? Let Herm see this thing through?

ROFL

hali is going to be an excellent rush backer, teams are going to be overwhellemed by his power, speed, instincts, and moves.

I know I'm dazzled as all fuck about him!

http://i44.photobucket.com/albums/f48/middlehead/avatars/Wrestling/HHHATE.gif

LMAO

Dorsey isn't the ideal fit for the 3-4 and both Flowers and Carr are zone CB's vs. pressure guys.

If we were going to field the IDEAL 3-4 D, we should probably replace everybody.

Uh, Flowers LIVES to bring pressure. Just because Cunther never called a Corner Blitz, does NOT mean Flowers can't bring one. He can.

Chiefnj2
03-02-2009, 10:07 AM
i dont think it matters about curry. KC will see who has a hardon for QB and trade down in the 1st and p/u some pick(s) in the later rounds.
some team/gm/coach/owner will reach for our pick.

If Stafford is available I think it is possible. I don't know many GM"s that will give up what it takes to move to the top 3 for a one year starter. This risk is extremely high to start with, let alone giving up multiple first day picks.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 10:08 AM
I hope you're right.

My ideal scenario would be trading down, picking up a 2nd round pick or more, and still getting a good LB or DL.

its seems likely to happen with the cassel trade. we dont have a strong 'value' as far as personel goes at 3 and some fool and his pick will be quickly parted.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:08 AM
Dorsey isn't the ideal fit for the 3-4 and both Flowers and Carr are zone CB's vs. pressure guys.

If we were going to field the IDEAL 3-4 D, we should probably replace everybody.

I'm not saying you're not correct, but this post just depresses the hell out of me.

RedThat
03-02-2009, 10:09 AM
But this is what happens when you change regimes.

When you bring in a new GM and new coaching staff things are going to change. It's gonna be a totally different attitude and philosophy. Schemes are gonna change too. It's just the nature how things work in the NFL. Question is, Can you accept the change? I know I can. Either way, with our previous regime, we sucked completely at running a zone defense anyway.

If you suck at that, might as well change it up? It moakes no difference to me. What do we got to lose?

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:10 AM
And I'll say it from now until April 25th:

Do not for one minute think you know the mind of Pioli; you don't.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:12 AM
Potentially burning Flowers and Dorsey would be just moronic. We don't know about the latter, but Flowers sure showed a lot of flashes last season. A lot.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 10:14 AM
If Stafford is available I think it is possible. I don't know many GM"s that will give up what it takes to move to the top 3 for a one year starter. This risk is extremely high to start with, let alone giving up multiple first day picks.

If Stafford is available after trading for Cassell that's a reason to go out to arrowhead and set peoples cars on fire.

Gdaddy
03-02-2009, 10:17 AM
I think Curry is a Stud. He will be a 100 plus tackle guy, but not alot of pash rush. I compare him to Derrick Brooks. He can cover well, too. I definitely think we need someone better for NT, I dont think Tank, Turk or Dorsey can do it. Boone is big enough, but if we want to be a top ten defense we need someone more proven in there. Rogers wants out of Cleveland, wouldnt he be a great fit in KC?

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:18 AM
Uh, Flowers LIVES to bring pressure. Just because Cunther never called a Corner Blitz, does NOT mean Flowers can't bring one. He can.

I'm not talking about Corner blitzes.

I'm talking about being able to man up and play bump and run. He did it some in college, but he also got burned alot when he did. They never used him that way here, so there's some question there.

Don't get me wrong, I love the kid. I was just using him as another example why moving to a straight 3-4 with this many young players isn't what I would do.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:18 AM
If Stafford is available after trading for Cassell that's a reason to go out to arrowhead and set peoples cars on fire.

The Cassel move is probably going to be the defining moment in Pioli's time in KC.

I'm literally going to vomit on draft day if we would have had our pick of QB's.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:18 AM
And I'll say it from now until April 25th:

Do not for one minute think you know the mind of Pioli; you don't.

:clap:

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 10:19 AM
I think Curry is a Stud. He will be a 100 plus tackle guy, but not alot of pash rush. I compare him to Derrick Brooks. He can cover well, too. I definitely think we need someone better for NT, I dont think Tank, Turk or Dorsey can do it. Boone is big enough, but if we want to be a top ten defense we need someone more proven in there. Rogers wants out of Cleveland, wouldnt he be a great fit in KC?

Derrick Brooks was an OLB in a 4-3.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 10:20 AM
I'm not talking about Corner blitzes.

I'm talking about being able to man up and play bump and run. He did it some in college, but he also got burned alot when he did. They never used him that way here, so there's some question there.

Don't get me wrong, I love the kid. I was just using him as another example why moving to a straight 3-4 with this many young players isn't what I would do.
just run the corners in a soft cover and let the SS play the line and the FS play cover 1.o:-)

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:21 AM
Potentially burning Flowers and Dorsey would be just moronic. We don't know about the latter, but Flowers sure showed a lot of flashes last season. A lot.

Flowers ain't goin' ANYWHERE.

Bank It!

Mecca
03-02-2009, 10:21 AM
The Cassel move is probably going to be the defining moment in Pioli's time in KC.

I'm literally going to vomit on draft day if we would have had our pick of QB's.

If that happens this shit better workout or I'm gonna blow my lid.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:23 AM
If that happens this shit better workout or I'm gonna blow my lid.

And by workout, I mean, and I'm sure you do too, that Cassel better be more than Green v.2.

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:23 AM
If that happens this shit better workout or I'm gonna blow my lid.

Ahem...

Originally Posted by Darth CarlSatan http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5546724#post5546724)
And I'll say it from now until April 25th:

Do not for one minute think you know the mind of Pioli; you don't.
:clap: __________________
Pioli: I don't like anybody working here, whack 'em!

Clark: Wait!...Wait!...Can we keep Herm?

Pioli: Do you want whacked??

Clark: No sir.

Pioli: THEN SHUT UP!!!! I OWN YOU!!!

RustShack
03-02-2009, 10:25 AM
I really don't even care anymore. This is a shitty year to draft #3. I wanted Stafford and would settle for Sanchez but it doesn't matter now because we traded for Cassel who hopefully isn't a one year wonder(odds are he is though). We drafted a LT last year and don't need another, Crabtree isn't a top WR most years, and LB'ers just aren't worth a top three pick. The best possible thing we can do is trade down but I doubt that happens. Personally I feel Haley drafts Crabtree though, if not he gets another LT and moved Albert to OG to help keep Cassel up-right. Curry I think would be the last option, I feel sorry for the Chiefs if Pioli is such a bad drafter he can't find LB's outside of the top 3.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:28 AM
I really don't even care anymore. This is a shitty year to draft #3. I wanted Stafford and would settle for Sanchez but it doesn't matter now because we traded for Cassel who hopefully isn't a one year wonder(odds are he is though). We drafted a LT last year and don't need another, Crabtree isn't a top WR most years, and LB'ers just aren't worth a top three pick. The best possible thing we can do is trade down but I doubt that happens. Personally I feel Haley drafts Crabtree though, if not he gets another LT and moved Albert to OG to help keep Cassel up-right. Curry I think would be the last option, I feel sorry for the Chiefs if Pioli is such a bad drafter he can't find LB's outside of the top 3.

I'd rather see the Chiefs draft Maclin than Crabtree at #3. This would not be a smart move, but it would be better than selecting Crabtree, IMO.

RedThat
03-02-2009, 10:29 AM
I really don't even care anymore. This is a shitty year to draft #3. I wanted Stafford and would settle for Sanchez but it doesn't matter now because we traded for Cassel who hopefully isn't a one year wonder(odds are he is though). We drafted a LT last year and don't need another, Crabtree isn't a top WR most years, and LB'ers just aren't worth a top three pick. The best possible thing we can do is trade down but I doubt that happens. Personally I feel Haley drafts Crabtree though, if not he gets another LT and moved Albert to OG to help keep Cassel up-right. Curry I think would be the last option, I feel sorry for the Chiefs if Pioli is such a bad drafter he can't find LB's outside of the top 3.

I think were gonna trade down. We've got Scott Pioli and It's just the New England way of doing things.

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
I'd rather see the Chiefs draft Maclin than Crabtree at #3. This would not be a smart move, but it would be better than selecting Crabtree, IMO.

A fuckin' men. Crabtree does not jazz me in the slightest anymore. We need a burner, his foot is jacked, and will it ever be the same?

Is he worth 3rd overall salary? Fuck no.

eazyb81
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
I think were gonna trade down. We've got Scott Pioli and It's just the New England way of doing things.

I am going to be shocked if there's a team that wants to trade up to #3 this year.

Tribal Warfare
03-02-2009, 10:30 AM
Until someone gives an example of a player that played LB in college and successfully made the transition to 3-4 OLB, the point is moot.

only two I can think of are LT and Derrick.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:31 AM
A ****in' men. Crabtree does not jazz me in the slightest anymore. We need a burner, his foot is jacked, and will it ever be the same?

Is he worth 3rd overall salary? **** no.

Neither is Maclin, though. I like him better than Ginn, but not nearly enough for #3. It would not be a "smart" selection.

bdeg
03-02-2009, 10:32 AM
They're going to have to make SEVERAL exceptions if they plan on going 3-4 right away.

None of our existing DL would be ideal starters in a 3-4. Some of them might be backups at various positions, but we have no starters.

DJ is a starting ILB in a 3-4. Other than him and Vrabel (who might be a backup at this point) we have no starters at LB, either.

Pollard MIGHT be a decent SS in a pressure D. Page has no position, and both of our CB's are zone guys who might struggle in a pressure D.

By my count, your scenario of not making exceptions would require us to get TEN new defensive players this offseason. That's not going to happen.

Page isn't a perfect safety, but what about the 3-4 hurts him?

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 10:32 AM
I am going to be shocked if there's a team that wants to trade up to #3 this year.

did you feel that way after this weekends trade?

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:33 AM
Neither is Maclin, though. I like him better than Ginn, but not nearly enough for #3. It would not be a "smart" selection.

Nobody is worth the three to us now.

RustShack
03-02-2009, 10:35 AM
I really think Its between Crabtree or a LT for the Chiefs.

bdeg
03-02-2009, 10:36 AM
I'd agree if he did anything well, ran well, played the run well something..

Hell I think Brian Johnston has a better shot of being a 3-4 role guy out there than Hali does.

Now I think Flowers will be fine, and I don't particularly like the safeties and most of the front 7 needed to be replaced anyway.

Brian Johnston might shine.

I don't think Flowers will be hurt as much as people think.

Mecca
03-02-2009, 10:36 AM
I really don't even care anymore. This is a shitty year to draft #3. I wanted Stafford and would settle for Sanchez but it doesn't matter now because we traded for Cassel who hopefully isn't a one year wonder(odds are he is though). We drafted a LT last year and don't need another, Crabtree isn't a top WR most years, and LB'ers just aren't worth a top three pick. The best possible thing we can do is trade down but I doubt that happens. Personally I feel Haley drafts Crabtree though, if not he gets another LT and moved Albert to OG to help keep Cassel up-right. Curry I think would be the last option, I feel sorry for the Chiefs if Pioli is such a bad drafter he can't find LB's outside of the top 3.

Wait till you see the thread that says the Lions were gonna trade for Cassell...

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 10:38 AM
I really think Its between Crabtree or a LT for the Chiefs.

Left Tackle please.

HC_Chief
03-02-2009, 10:43 AM
Left Tackle please.

Depends on how our coaching staff views Albert -v- whatever LT is available (most ratings have Monroe #1).

If we're going to reach at #3, might as well reach for need. Maclin fills two roles of need (slot WR and returner). Raji fills a need (NT). Everett Brown fills a need (rush LB in 3-4), Rey Maualuga (ILB run-stuffing attacking backer in 3-4)

bdeg
03-02-2009, 10:44 AM
A slot wr/returner that would be even worse at 3 than Curry or essentially taking a RT.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 10:46 AM
Nobody is worth the three to us now.

Raji might be if the team is for sure switching to the 3-4.

Taking a LT makes me want to fucking throw up.

RedThat
03-02-2009, 10:47 AM
I am going to be shocked if there's a team that wants to trade up to #3 this year.

I wouldn't be shocked at all. It wouldn't surprise me if there are plenty of teams out there that are picking lower then us that Im sure are coveting players they want that are going to go in the top 5.

Were in a great situation. The situation you want to be in rebuilding your franchise.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 10:49 AM
Raji might be if the team is for sure switching to the 3-4.

Taking a LT makes me want to ****ing throw up.

talkin about drafting another DT is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Bowser
03-02-2009, 10:51 AM
talkin about drafting another DT is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

Yes it is. How many DT's have we taken high since 2000? Too many....

RustShack
03-02-2009, 10:54 AM
I really really really think Pioli would swing a trade to get disgruntled Shaun Rogers from Cleveland to be our NT for soon to be DC Romeo Crennel.

JASONSAUTO
03-02-2009, 11:00 AM
I really really really think Pioli would swing a trade to get disgruntled Shaun Rogers from Cleveland to be our NT for soon to be DC Romeo Crennel.

me too, hopefully lj's included

HC_Chief
03-02-2009, 11:02 AM
Yes it is. How many DT's have we taken high since 2000? Too many....

2001: first pick = Eric Downing; 7th round = Terdell Sands

2002: first pick = Ryan Sims; second pick = Eddie Freeman (I had a full on meltdown)

2003: 7th pick = Montique Sharpe

2004: first pick = Junior Siavii

2007: second pick = Turk McBride; third pick = Tank Tyler

2008: first pick = Glen Dorsey

bdeg
03-02-2009, 11:02 AM
That would be sick. They're in the market for a new TE now, too.

HC_Chief
03-02-2009, 11:03 AM
That would be sick. They're in the market for a new TE now, too.

Strong TE class in the draft this year.

DeezNutz
03-02-2009, 11:03 AM
talkin about drafting another DT is like fingernails on a chalkboard.

I understand this perspective entirely. It is sickening in a lot of respects.

Chief Faithful
03-02-2009, 11:09 AM
My goodness, we aren't one friggin inside LBer away. I've been saying it for months, but Raji is the pick.

When I look at Raji I keep remembering how Belichick built his defense around Seymour.

bdeg
03-02-2009, 11:12 AM
Strong TE class in the draft this year.
Not particularly. If Gresham had come out, sure.

HC_Chief
03-02-2009, 11:25 AM
Not particularly. If Gresham had come out, sure.

Pettigrew, Coffman, and Ingram represent as solid a top-three TE class as we've seen in a decade.

For KC I'd love one of the latter two, but I think both will be off the board by the time we pick in the 3rd.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 11:43 AM
just run the corners in a soft cover and let the SS play the line and the FS play cover 1.o:-)

I'd rather play bump and run with the SS at the line and the FS playing Cover 1.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 11:44 AM
Page isn't a perfect safety, but what about the 3-4 hurts him?

Presumably, they're going to run predominantly Cover 1 with the SS up at the line. Page isn't suited for Cover 1 at all. He lacks top-end speed and his zone discipline is awful.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 11:44 AM
Brian Johnston might shine.

I don't think Flowers will be hurt as much as people think.

I'm not suggesting he's gonna be hurt by it.

I'm just saying that in an ideal world, he's not perfect for a pressure defense.

bdeg
03-02-2009, 12:14 PM
All good points. It sucks that none of our safeties are fast enough for it. I couldn't find Morgan's 40, but he wasn't projected as a fs either.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 01:27 PM
I'd rather play bump and run with the SS at the line and the FS playing Cover 1.

soft zone with young DBs will give em a chance to get there head turned, less chance of BS calls.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 01:32 PM
soft zone with young DBs will give em a chance to get there head turned, less chance of BS calls.

Absolutely.

I'm just saying that my ideal scenario would be that we don't have to compensate inside the scheme. But we're going to be doing it for a while so we might as well get used to it. They're going to be turning over personnel on defense for a couple of years if they're intent on going pure 3-4.

Darth CarlSatan
03-02-2009, 01:37 PM
I'd rather play bump and run with the SS at the line and the FS playing Cover 1.

This!

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 01:39 PM
Absolutely.

I'm just saying that my ideal scenario would be that we don't have to compensate inside the scheme. But we're going to be doing it for a while so we might as well get used to it. They're going to be turning over personnel on defense for a couple of years if they're intent on going pure 3-4.
Safties are the key. we will have to see what the new staff can do with page and pollard. i got the feeling that there was alot of confusion on the field when it came to safety play either do to flat out poor player performance, poor coaching or a combination of both.
To be honest i feel that Gunther had alot to do with ****in up our young players the past couple years.

edit- you can get away with alot at the line with good safety play.

Delano
03-02-2009, 01:39 PM
All good points. It sucks that none of our safeties are fast enough for it. I couldn't find Morgan's 40, but he wasn't projected as a fs either.

FWIW he ran a 4.52 at the combine.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 01:43 PM
Safties are the key. we will have to see what the new staff can do with page and pollard. i got the feeling that there was alot of confusion on the field when it came to safety play either do to flat out poor player performance, poor coaching or a combination of both.
To be honest i feel that Gunther had alot to do with ****in up our young players the past couple years.

edit- you can get away with alot at the line with good safety play.

I know Pollard takes alot of heat here, but I've watched both of them intently and I can say without a doubt that Page is a HUGE problem. Many of the plays attributed to Pollard were actually Pollard trying to cover for the fact that Page was ANYWHERE NEAR where he was supposed to be.

For somebody who is supposed to be a zone cover FS, Page just isn't very smart. Combine that with his lack of high-end physical skills and you end up with a disaster waiting to happen.

htismaqe
03-02-2009, 01:44 PM
FWIW he ran a 4.52 at the combine.

That's fast enough, IF the guy has good instincts and recognition skills.

I'd be more interested to know how he did in the drills that demonstrate the ability to change directions and close gaps quickly.

bdeg
03-02-2009, 01:55 PM
That's fast enough, IF the guy has good instincts and recognition skills.

I'd be more interested to know how he did in the drills that demonstrate the ability to change directions and close gaps quickly.

I found combine results for that year but for some reason he wasn't on it. All I remember was that he performed well enough to make most believe he was a possible 1st. I read one report that said he would eventually be better than Kenny Phillips. I can't imagine they would have written that if he didn't stand out or at least have good times.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-02-2009, 02:01 PM
The nice thing about DaJuan Morgan is that he has the physical ability to play either safety spot. He's fast enough, and has a lot of natural explosion.

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 02:04 PM
The nice thing about DaJuan Morgan is that he has the physical ability to play either safety spot. He's fast enough, and has a lot of natural explosion.

when is he projected to go?

RUSH
03-02-2009, 02:11 PM
when is he projected to go?

lol he's on our team

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 02:15 PM
lol he's on our team

why doesnt he play then?

MOhillbilly
03-02-2009, 02:29 PM
http://weblogs.newsday.com/sports/watchdog/blog/dunce.gif

bdeg
03-02-2009, 02:32 PM
why doesnt he play then?

He was a rookie 3rd rounder last year and is still learning the position.