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acasas4
03-02-2009, 07:41 PM
Bill Belichick doesn’t deliver friendly favor
Ron Borges, Boston Herald

Scott Pioli soon may learn there is no such thing as friends in the NFL, especially when they used to employ you as their gofer.

Pioli yesterday closed out what he believes was a blockbuster deal with the Patriots [team stats] that landed him his franchise quarterback (literally, in this case), Matt Cassel, and Mike Vrabel, a linebacker who can settle Kansas City’s troubled defense.

And perhaps he did. But if the many in these parts who believe Bill Belichick is Einstein in a hoodie are correct, what Pioli may have gotten instead is Scott Mitchell the sequel and an expensive linebacker on the wrong end of the football timeline.

For the Patriots, this was a best-case scenario. It freed up $17.85 million on their cap and allowed them to get rid of a 12-year veteran whose game had begun to slip as well as a guy Belichick clearly believes was destined to become the most expensive backup in NFL history had he stayed.

Belichick may be proven wrong on the latter point, but it was clearly part of his thinking, because there’s no way he would have left his team exposed at quarterback, the game’s most critical position.

What the Patriots learned during the past few weeks is the market for Cassel was neither deep nor strong. Even two teams thought to be interested, Detroit and Tampa, are now said to have been seeking Cassel only to deal him to Denver to acquire the more highly regarded Jay Cutler.cw-3

If those whispers are true, then there was no market for Cassel outside of Kansas City, which has enough cap space to carry his $14.65 million franchise tag until it can work out a long-term deal.cw-2

To net only a second-round choice for Cassel and Vrabel may seem as though a fire sale went on in Foxboro, especially when you consider that was the price the Eagles paid for A.J. Feeley and what it cost Miami to land the one-legged Daunte Culpepper.cw-3

But if Cassel performs the way they did, it was a steal for Belichick. And there are far more personnel men around pro football who doubt Cassel than ones who believe he’s quarterback of an 11-5 team.

They think his five losses to playoff-contending teams said more about his long-term chances than the 11 wins did against the likes of the Chiefs, 49ers, Seahawks, Bills and Rams.

“I look at Cassel and I think Scott Mitchell,” one longtime NFC personnel man said yesterday. “That’s who I see.”

Pioli better hope not, because that $5 million-a-year seat he’s occupying could become vacant in a hurry if Cassel turns into Mitchell and Vrabel plays like Willie McGinest did in Cleveland.

Like Vrabel, McGinest was a 12-year veteran when he was let go by the Pats. He was two years removed from the second-best year of his career, a 9-sack season, but he’d slipped to six sacks in 2005 and that slide continued with the Browns, where he had four, three and last season only one sack.

Similarly, Vrabel has played 12 years, the past eight in New England. Two years ago he had his most productive season with 12 sacks. Last year he slipped to four and hinted at a shoulder problem related to offseason surgery. Now he’s gone and will arrive in Kansas City at the same age and experience level as McGinest did when he went to Cleveland. After 12 years in the NFL, linebackers do not typically improve. They usually implode.

If Vrabel turns into McGinest and Cassel is Mitchell, Pioli will have learned a hard lesson about friendship, NFL style.

In 1993, Mitchell stepped in for the injured Dan Marino and played well enough to convince the Detroit Lions to pay him a ton of money the following season. He started for four years, went 27-28 and was 0-2 in the playoffs.

Mitchell’s solid play in Miami proved a mirage, even though he went to a far more talented offensive team in Detroit (Barry Sanders, Herman Moore, Brett Perriman) than Cassel will inherit in Kansas City.

The Chiefs have an unhappy running back in Larry Johnson, an unhappy tight end in Tony Gonzalez and a wide receiving corps Cassel will find far less user friendly than Randy Moss and Wes Welker.

In the end only time will tell if Cassel is a player worth the money he’ll be paid, if Vrabel can justify his $3.2 million salary this season and if Brady’s knee is sound. But from what we know today it looks like Belichick didn’t do his old friend any favors, which is no surprise because he’s not in the business of doing favors. He’s in the football business.

“Bill Belichick wouldn’t do his mother a favor,” one NFL insider scoffed yesterday. “Anybody who looks at this deal and thinks he did doesn’t know him. Or the guys he just traded.”


I don't like this guy. Sorry if repost. Well not really.

acasas4
03-02-2009, 07:41 PM
Sorry, forgot the link.

http://www.810whb.com/scripts/archives/getStory.asp?article=18457

orange
03-02-2009, 07:50 PM
I'm tempted to call "REPOST" here, but it was 2 days ago that I posted this so I think the statute of limitations has expired.

It didn't provoke much discussion that time - maybe it will do better this time.

DaneMcCloud
03-02-2009, 07:52 PM
Say what you will but there is truth in this interview.

Borges never states that Cassel's career will mirror Mitchell's or that Vrabel will be ineffective (as was McGinest) but both are possible.

oldandslow
03-02-2009, 07:57 PM
Say what you will but there is truth in this interview.

Borges never states that Cassel's career will mirror Mitchell's or that Vrabel will be ineffective (as was McGinest) but both are possible.

It's also possible an asteroid will wipe out the planet. Until proven otherwise, I will believe Pioli knows what he is doing with Cassel.

DaneMcCloud
03-02-2009, 08:07 PM
It's also possible an asteroid will wipe out the planet. Until proven otherwise, I will believe Pioli knows what he is doing with Cassel.

He won't be proven otherwise until the conclusion of his yet-to-signed contract.

That doesn't discount the fact that Cassel in KC could mirror Mitchell in Detroit.

Does it?

Messier
03-02-2009, 08:17 PM
He won't be proven otherwise until the conclusion of his yet-to-signed contract.

That doesn't discount the fact that Cassel in KC could mirror Mitchell in Detroit.

Does it?

I think a more apt comparison would be Trent Green to the Rams or to the Chiefs. Mitchell only played about half a season and when the Lions signed him there was no one from the Dolphins that moved to Detroit that wanted him. It's just not a good analogy, unless your only point is that you don't think it will work out.

booger
03-02-2009, 08:35 PM
if your gonna say trent green i think another comparison is Matt Hasslebeck who went from GB to SEA for a 1st that same year green came to kc. Hasslebeck was another guy who was thought of as maybe a product of the system but didn't have as much of a chance as Cassel did with farve not missing much time. Holmgren went and got him because he thought highly of him, drafting, and coaching him. Similar to Pioli and Cassel.

booger
03-02-2009, 08:37 PM
the other side of that is Derek Anderson and Cleveland. Teams didn't want to pay the 1 and 3 to sign the RFA and the browns wouldn't trade him for any less. Now a year later and he doesn't have that value and they would probably jump at a 2nd.

Mr. Kotter
03-02-2009, 09:11 PM
Bilicheck FRANCHISED Cassel. For nearly $16 million he'd have eaten if the Chiefs or someone else hadn't "bitten."

Tells me all I need to know about how BB really feels about Cassel. This guy is sour grapes that they got raped in the "trade."

Gravedigger
03-02-2009, 09:13 PM
I dunno why 810 brings him on, theres alot more sports writers in Boston than him, and the last time he was on 810 was when Pioli was brought aboard and Petro and him went at it and Petro continued to make fun of him after he wasn't on the air anymore to defend himself. Why bring him back on?

Mecca
03-02-2009, 09:15 PM
Bilicheck FRANCHISED Cassel. For nearly $16 million he'd have eaten if the Chiefs or someone else hadn't "bitten."

Tells me all I need to know about how BB really feels about Cassel. This guy is sour grapes that they got raped in the "trade."

Most people they they tagged him with the full intention of trading him.

morphius
03-02-2009, 09:27 PM
Most people they they tagged him with the full intention of trading him.
That was my thought, and I don't think they expected to get a first rounder for him either, which is why they made the trade with us.

Amnorix
03-02-2009, 09:27 PM
I dunno why 810 brings him on, theres alot more sports writers in Boston than him, and the last time he was on 810 was when Pioli was brought aboard and Petro and him went at it and Petro continued to make fun of him after he wasn't on the air anymore to defend himself. Why bring him back on?

Reiss is easily the most knowledgeable Patriots sportswriter. Gasper isn't bad, and I don't dislike Felger as much as some, though he is opinionated and now does alot of TV and radio and feels compelled to generate controversy.

Borges is garbage.

BradyFTW!
03-02-2009, 09:37 PM
Bilicheck FRANCHISED Cassel. For nearly $16 million he'd have eaten if the Chiefs or someone else hadn't "bitten."

Tells me all I need to know about how BB really feels about Cassel. This guy is sour grapes that they got raped in the "trade."

It's not sour grapes: Borges wants nothing more than to see the Pats fail. He absolutely hates Belichick, above and beyond the hatred that he seems to harbor for all of mankind. This is also a guy who was caught plagiarizing columns a few years back, I'm not even sure why he still has a job.

In Boston, no-talent hacks with an axe to grind can hold on for a surprisingly long time. Ron Borges, Mike Tomasi (the idiot who broke the Matt Walsh non-story 2 days before the Super Bowl) and Dan Shaughnessy all fit into this category. I put Michael Felger in the same category, more or less, but that's a little more questionable. Over at the providence journal, you have guys wondering if Brady's lost his competitive fire now that he's married (what the fuck would make them think that? Just trying to stir up controversy).

IMO, the only people who can write with any authority/intelligence about the Pats are Reiss, Gasper, and maybe Shalise Manza Young from the Providence Journal. Feel free to ignore anyone else, especially on opinions about Pioli, since most other journalists in the area are just pissed that the Pats don't play the media game.

acasas4
03-02-2009, 10:18 PM
IMO, the only people who can write with any authority/intelligence about the Pats are Reiss, Gasper, and maybe Shalise Manza Young from the Providence Journal. Feel free to ignore anyone else, especially on opinions about Pioli, since most other journalists in the area are just pissed that the Pats don't play the media game.

That sounds exactly like that POS Whitlock always bitching about Pioli being secretive and arrogant. Better get used to it fatlock.

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 09:24 AM
I dunno why 810 brings him on, theres alot more sports writers in Boston than him, and the last time he was on 810 was when Pioli was brought aboard and Petro and him went at it and Petro continued to make fun of him after he wasn't on the air anymore to defend himself. Why bring him back on?

Honestly, I think 810 has him on for that very reason - he's the EXTREME counterpoint to any possible elation people would have about the moves we've made lately.

When we get Pioli and we're riding high, bring in Borges to tell everybody how much of lackey Pioli was.

When we get Cassel for a song and dance, bring in Borges to tell us how Cassel is overrated and nobody wanted him anyway.

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 09:25 AM
He won't be proven otherwise until the conclusion of his yet-to-signed contract.

That doesn't discount the fact that Cassel in KC could mirror Mitchell in Detroit.

Does it?

Why even think about it? Jesus, this is the best offseason like ever and people would rather wallow in this shit...

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 09:25 AM
if your gonna say trent green i think another comparison is Matt Hasslebeck who went from GB to SEA for a 1st that same year green came to kc. Hasslebeck was another guy who was thought of as maybe a product of the system but didn't have as much of a chance as Cassel did with farve not missing much time. Holmgren went and got him because he thought highly of him, drafting, and coaching him. Similar to Pioli and Cassel.

That's the best analogy I've seen so far.

How did Hasslebeck work out for Seattle? I'd take a Super Bowl loss at this point...

Frankie
03-03-2009, 10:15 AM
The media inflated Cassell's worth and assumed that teams are falling all over themselves to give NE their 1st and other picks because he is the next coming of Tom Brady. Now I'm far from unhappy with us getting the guy, but let's be realistic. He has had a great season and nothing else to show. He is far from having proven himself as a guaranteed QB stud. I desperately hope he will, but giving up a 1st was too much of a risk and no NFL GM not named Matt Millen would pay that price for him. On paper we did get a good deal, but in reality we got a still unproven QB and an old LB for a high 2. I think NE is happy enough with it. If Cassell pans out we will be very happy with this deal as well. And btw, I think there's a big possibility that he won't do very well next year. Watch for the fans here posting thread after thread that he is a bust and we got raped in the trade.

Here's an interestin editorial opposing Mr. Borge's opinion:

http://sports.yahoo.com/nfl/news;_ylt=Ao_5LCK9CtMQgWSPXZRHCQJDubYF?slug=dw-cassel030109&prov=yhoo&type=lgns

Sure-Oz
03-03-2009, 10:17 AM
in the end it is a high 2nd rounder but it was worth it to take that chance, its not like we lost the 3rd overall

Saccopoo
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
This guy is a ballbag. A second round pick. For a quality (I'm not going to anoint Cassell the second coming of whoever, but the guy played a very good season last year, and by the end of the year he was arguably playing like one of the best quarterbacks in the league - and you never know what you are going to get with guys like Sanchez and Stafford and they won't be ready to play next year regardless, where Cassell can get plugged in immediately) quarterback and a perennial All-Pro linebacker who can act as player/coach and be an immediate positive locker room presence. At this point, there was no one in the draft at the second round that would have provided this much potential positive influence and instant contribution.

Heck, the Cowboys gave up a first and a third for a guy with hands of stone to play the #2 receiver spot. There is nothing but positives about the Cassell/Vrabel trade.

Plus the fact that I can now envision the Doncos having to give up more picks in order to leapfrog San Francisco in the draft to pick up Sanchez if they end up trading Cutler (which they almost have to do at this point as it looks like the McDaniels/Cutler trainwreck is only getting worse). Add to that that Brandon Marshall is most likely looking at, in the very least, a four game suspension for kicking the shit out of his newest girlfriend (four arrests in two years isn't going to endear yourself with Goodell, especially after you promised him you wouldn't beat down any more women).

Best off-season ever.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-03-2009, 10:36 AM
Why even think about it? Jesus, this is the best offseason like ever and people would rather wallow in this shit...

I guess throwing logic out the window is OK because we got rid of Carl and Herm.

raybec 4
03-03-2009, 10:41 AM
The only real evidence I need about Cassel is the fact that McDaniels and the front office in Denver were willing to part with Cutler if they thought they could get him in return.

Amnorix
03-03-2009, 10:50 AM
I guess throwing logic out the window is OK because we got rid of Carl and Herm.


Tell me again how the Pats got screwed by giving up a 2nd for Welker. :p

BigChiefFan
03-03-2009, 10:56 AM
We still have our 1st overall pick, I don't know why people are upset.

HC_Chief
03-03-2009, 11:01 AM
Tell me again how the Pats got screwed by giving up a 2nd for Welker. :p

Imaginary board numbers are more important than actual <i>production</i>.... you dumbf*ck sh*thead r*tard.

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 11:28 AM
I guess throwing logic out the window is OK because we got rid of Carl and Herm.

What "logic" was thrown out the window?

Cassel's possible shortcomings have been discussed ad nauseum over the past few weeks.

In the end, the guy that brought Mitchell to Detroit wasn't in Miami when he was drafted and wasnt' in Miami when Mitchell started 7 games (and lost 4 of them).

The comparisons to Scott Mitchell are absurd.

DaneMcCloud
03-03-2009, 12:52 PM
Why even think about it? Jesus, this is the best offseason like ever and people would rather wallow in this shit...

I'm not "wallowing" in anything and I'll certainly give Cassel the benefit of the doubt (even though I have more questions about him than I would Stafford or Sanchez).

But the article isn't without merit. And that's all I was stating.

htismaqe
03-03-2009, 01:05 PM
I'm not "wallowing" in anything and I'll certainly give Cassel the benefit of the doubt (even though I have more questions about him than I would Stafford or Sanchez).

But the article isn't without merit. And that's all I was stating.

Fair enough.

Just remember that any writer can make valid points at times. Rufus Dawes made several over the years, it still doesn't make his opinion worth considering.