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Von Dumbass
03-06-2009, 11:07 AM
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=3954904
Cassel is Chiefs' next hope


KANSAS CITY, Mo. -- Being a quarterback legend gets you a decent haircut, a corner booth at the most prominent sports bar and a nickname that sticks for four decades. In Kansas City, it makes you one in 1.9 million. "Lenny the Cool" isn't sure how his beloved Chiefs got here, stuck somewhere between Todd Blackledge and Brodie Croyle. At some point, he says, they gave up drafting quarterbacks high. He's watched one of the NFL's most intimidating venues turn half-empty, watched a town turn cynical. During rush hour one night this past December, when news broke that their general manager was resigning, Kansas Citians responded by honking their horns in glee.


"Something had to be done," Len Dawson says. "You'd like to see some hope here."

A warm front has pushed through the Plains, teasing people in these parts that this long winter might finally be over. Dawson is at the barbershop, and, for the first time in at least two years, the groans are replaced with eager men asking, "Hey Lenny, what do you think about the trade?" The enthusiasm is everywhere, from the watering holes in the suburbs to the freshly painted sheds bearing arrowheads.

Matt Cassel is coming.

Never mind that he was a career backup before filling in for Tom Brady last season in New England and that he will command at least $14 million this season for a job new coach Todd Haley claims is up for grabs. In a town that has struggled through failed draft picks, stop-gap solutions and a carousel of battered faces in last year's 2-14 season, the Chiefs might finally have a young franchise quarterback.

Is Cassel ready? Does he know what he's getting himself into? That, in a week when season ticket sales got a bump and a struggling sports city momentarily got to celebrate, doesn't need to be answered now.

"The Chiefs fan was waiting for some evidence," Dawson says. "They needed something. When Cassel came in here with that trade, right away they got very, very excited about that."

Cassel is, by early accounts, somewhat guarded. Maybe it comes from being a New England Patriot, from baring your soul on the field, then retreating behind a giant blue curtain.


His introduction to the Kansas City media comes Monday in the form of a brisk teleconference, even though Cassel is in town, and possibly even in the building at Arrowhead Stadium. In past years, under former general manager Carl Peterson, a rare big-name acquisition would have been celebrated with a news conference and a meet-the-fans event. But the normally caustic radio jocks are OK with this move, because they believe new GM Scott Pioli favors substance over flash and that it's not wise to showcase a quarterback who has yet to sign a long-term contract.

"I am excited about the opportunity," Cassel says on the teleconference.

His story is one of dogged persistence, but those closest to Cassel are hesitant to reveal many snapshots. His older brother, Jack, a pitcher with the Cleveland Indians, will take time out from spring training to talk about Matt's 2008 performance with the Patriots but declines to speak about their childhood. Same goes for his little brother, Justin, a pitcher with the Double-A Birmingham Barons.

"It's something the family respects and leave it at that," Jack says. "The job he's done on the field speaks volumes for his perseverance."

Others say Matt Cassel is an extrovert in the locker room, a prankster and a hopeless optimist who gets his personality from his mom, Barbara, a prime-time Emmy-winning set designer. Barbara cried that spring day in 2005 when Cassel's life turned. He'd spent five years as a backup at USC, sandwiched between Heisman Trophy winners Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart. He'd been told by at least one assistant coach that there was nothing wrong with pursuing an NFL dream just as long as he didn't get his hopes up.

Cassel was at USC's pro day, one of the last athletes to perform as the scouts filtered off the field. And he couldn't miss. He zipped and floated perfect passes, and the crowd surrounding him kept getting louder. By the end of the workout, a flurry of personnel types swarmed him, scrambling to get his name and phone number.

"We saw him have his moment," USC coach Pete Carroll says. "It was obvious that everybody knew this guy had done something special on that day when he had his chance."

Unfortunately for Cassel, he hadn't had many chances at USC. In the spring of 2003, he and Leinart were locked in what Carroll calls a very close battle for the starting job, and the coach had to make a decision before they left for the summer. When he picked Leinart, the excited young quarterback told him, "You're never going to regret this." Leinart lost just one game in the next two seasons, and Cassel was lost in the shuffle.

In an attempt to get him on the field, the Trojans' coaches suggested he move to tight end.

"I can't imagine it wasn't a demoralizing thing," says former USC teammate Brandon Hance, who also joined Cassel on the line for the Northridge Knights during their Pop Warner days. "But you know what? He put on his gloves, changed his shoulder pads and was trying to blow people up at tight end.

"You could see it in his face he was not happy. But at the same time, he had the right attitude and gave it his all."

Cassel moved back to quarterback as a senior -- "He was not a tight end," Carroll says -- and dutifully took his spot behind Leinart. He never complained and formed a tight bond with Leinart, Hance and the other backups. Cassel was the locker room cutup, scribbling caricatures on the grease board and doing drop-dead impersonations of the coaches. To this day, Carroll still jokingly grumbles about the one Cassel did of him. "I thought it was in poor taste," Carroll says. "But the players loved it."

Cassel and Hance roomed together on road trips, wrestling during the down time before night games, knocking down mirrors, kicking in walls by accident. One day, Hance showed up for the game with a giant knot on his head. It was from Cassel.

Quarterback competitions are cutthroat, Hance says, especially when the battles are as tight as they were at USC. But Cassel clicked with everybody. When the Trojans' season ended in early 2005, Cassel got to work. He ran with a track coach in the morning, lifted weights, then trained with former NFL quarterback Ken O'Brien.

"The guy just doesn't quit," Hance says. "Even going back to wrestling, the guy was a martial artist. Ninety-nine out of 100 people would've said, 'OK, I'm done, I'm out of here.' He is the poster boy for persistence."

One career began; one season sank. It's odd now, how the Chiefs and Cassel converged on that first Sunday in Week 1 of the 2008 season, altering their futures. Chiefs safety Bernard Pollard hit Brady, Brady suffered a season-ending knee injury, Cassel sprung into action. He led the Patriots to a shaky win that afternoon, which was sort of a microcosm of Kansas City's season. Tantalizingly close, but always short.

Here's how quickly things can change in the NFL -- in August, Croyle, a young Alabaman, was expected to be the Chiefs' quarterback of the future. And Cassel, after a rough preseason, was surrounded by talk that he might get cut.

It all was forgotten Sept. 7. When Cassel slipped on his helmet, Gillette Stadium still was gasping over the image of Brady limping off the field. Cassel launched his first pass from the Patriots' end zone, a perfect 51-yarder to Randy Moss on third-and-11. It was just like pro day, Cassel delivering as if his future depended on it.

The Patriots scaled back their offense, and the first half of the season was filled with the high of beating Brett Favre in Cassel's starting debut and the low of Cassel's getting sacked four times in a 30-10 loss at San Diego.

But by Week 11, it was clear the Patriots' sturdy 230-pound quarterback was blossoming. Cassel had back-to-back 400-yard games against the Jets and Miami, and finished the season with 21 touchdown passes and nearly 3,700 yards.

"What he did [last] year with that team they won 11 games, right?" says Bills defensive backs coach George Catavolos. "He was as instrumental as anybody else on that football team in getting those victories. If he plays like he did last year, he'll be a top quarterback.

"There was a lot of pressure to come in after an athlete like Tom Brady goes down. I think -- I know -- he showed the maturity to take that pressure and do an outstanding job."

Does one good season in New England translate to a career in Kansas City? Chiefs owner Clark Hunt doesn't know. But one of the franchise's priorities was to find a young quarterback to build the team around, a quarterback who could be the face of the team for a six- to eight-year run. The Chiefs haven't had that in decades. There were flashes, like the Joe Montana days, when Kansas City was gaga over the future Hall of Famer. But that ride lasted only two seasons.

Drafts have been futile. They picked Blackledge in 1983 over Jim Kelly and Dan Marino. They've drafted 8 quarterbacks in the past 25 years, and that list has produced just nine starts and zero victories.

"Building a championship team is a process," Hunt says. "It's one that is not accomplished in one year. I actually believe several moves we've made over the last couple of years will end up being very beneficial to where the team goes in the future."

Some realists think it's silly. Others are careful not to pin too much hope on a 26-year-old quarterback. They know what happens in Kansas City. John Jenia Jr. walks into the bar with his Chiefs jacket and gives a painful dissertation on the past. He'd come here some days and see Croyle eating dinner with his wife. He'd never walk up and say it, that he knew Croyle would never make it in Kansas City. He called him "Brittle Croyle" for his injury-prone career.

"He gets hit," Jenia says, "and he gets knocked down."

Last week, Jenia got laid off at his job at Sprint. But he says he'll be OK. It's happening all over. Behind him is a poster with Dawson throwing a football. Jenia wants to order some wings. Across the bar, Jimmy McGuire, one of the managers, is hopeful. He says the place has been buzzing since last weekend.

He looks over to Dawson's booth, which is full of young women oblivious to the history.

"Dawson was so long ago," McGuire says. "We're looking for the next Len Dawson. The next jersey up there, we want it to be Matt Cassel."
Dawson's booth is hopping at the 810 Zone, a bar in suburban Kansas City, and Miller Lites flow as fans talk about the Chief's' being the 2009 incarnation of the 2008 Dolphins, going from the bottom to the playoffs.

KCrockaholic
03-06-2009, 11:14 AM
Dawson's booth is hopping at the 810 Zone, a bar in suburban Kansas City, and Miller Lites flow as fans talk about the Chief's' being the 2009 incarnation of the 2008 Dolphins, going from the bottom to the playoffs.

wouldnt that be nice

rambleonthruthefog
03-06-2009, 11:21 AM
good read

beach tribe
03-06-2009, 11:21 AM
Guarantee if Cassel doesn't perform at a high level the next two seasons, we'll have another QB under center. I hope he kicks ass.

ChiefRon
03-06-2009, 11:29 AM
I'm pulling for the guy, I really am.

I'm just very leery of trading for a 1-year wonder, a career backup without a strong arm who nearly got cut last year.

I would have preferred to draft a potential franchise QB with a lot of talent & upside to learn the NFL ropes while we built around him. We haven't even attempted to do that since what, '83?

I hope Pioli & staff prove me wrong, and this guy turns into the next Tom Brady. We'll find out soon enough.

On a side note: if this staff really wants to build for long-term, they'd see how Cassel plays this year before signing him to a long-term deal, draft a QB @ #3, determine who has the most potential, and trade away the other one if it's too much financial commitment. Of course, that's just a pipe dream since it wouldn't help us this year, I'm afraid...

Chocolate Hog
03-06-2009, 11:37 AM
I'm pulling for the guy, I really am.

I'm just very leery of trading for a 1-year wonder, a career backup without a strong arm who nearly got cut last year.

I would have preferred to draft a potential franchise QB with a lot of talent & upside to learn the NFL ropes while we built around him. We haven't even attempted to do that since what, '83?

I hope Pioli & staff prove me wrong, and this guy turns into the next Tom Brady. We'll find out soon enough.

On a side note: if this staff really wants to build for long-term, they'd see how Cassel plays this year before signing him to a long-term deal, draft a QB @ #3, determine who has the most potential, and trade away the other one if it's too much financial commitment. Of course, that's just a pipe dream since it wouldn't help us this year, I'm afraid...



Why does everyone say Cassell doesn't have a strong arm? Did you not see the play he made against the Jets? He's thrown for more 400 yard games then Tom Brady.

Count Zarth
03-06-2009, 11:38 AM
Posts questioning Cassel's arm are about the stupidest thing I've ever seen. He has a stronger arm than Trent Green.

The Buddha
03-06-2009, 11:39 AM
Help me Cassel won Kenobi... You're our only hope...

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 11:41 AM
I watched hours of highlights the Saturday we traded for him. Sure didn't seem to me he had a noodle arm. No, he's not Jay Cutler, but I wasn't saying "Damn this guy reminds me of Rich Gannon" either. He had great velocity on the intermediate throws especially.

JASONSAUTO
03-06-2009, 11:50 AM
I watched hours of highlights the Saturday we traded for him. Sure didn't seem to me he had a noodle arm. No, he's not Jay Cutler, but I wasn't saying "Damn this guy reminds me of Rich Gannon" either. He had great velocity on the intermediate throws especially.

i thought the same thing. but hey some people have an agenda and will throw shit out there justto make themselves feel good

Goapics1
03-06-2009, 11:51 AM
What # is he gonna wear?

crazycoffey
03-06-2009, 11:57 AM
"If he plays like he did last year, he'll be a top quarterback"

and that is the statement of the offseason. But seriously, I don't understand how any chief fan can't be excited about this. Sure, I wanted Stafford at #3 somehow, but I'll take this. He has all the upside as any draft pick this year, he's been on the bench to learn from perennial pros and had a blossoming year showing what he has learned. He took some hard knocks and SHOWED IMPROVEMENT, every step of the way.

He's been drafted and groomed under our now GM, and he very likely will have several years of success in this league. We finally have a QB of the now and future. I'm almost giddy....

JASONSAUTO
03-06-2009, 11:59 AM
"If he plays like he did last year, he'll be a top quarterback"

and that is the statement of the offseason. But seriously, I don't understand how any chief fan can't be excited about this. Sure, I wanted Stafford at #3 somehow, but I'll take this. He has all the upside as any draft pick this year, he's been on the bench to learn from perennial pros and had a blossoming year showing what he has learned. He took some hard knocks and SHOWED IMPROVEMENT, every step of the way.

He's been drafted and groomed under our now GM, and he very likely will have several years of success in this league. We finally have a QB of the now and future. I'm almost giddy....

i'm glad other people feel this way, i sure do

ChiefsCountry
03-06-2009, 12:01 PM
He better win ****ing a Super Bowl. For the jack and what they did to our draft to get him, he better produce.

Marco Polo
03-06-2009, 12:08 PM
He better win ****ing a Super Bowl. For the jack and what they did to our draft to get him, he better produce.

:spock:

ChiefsCountry
03-06-2009, 12:23 PM
:spock:

WTF is wrong with that? I want a damn Super Bowl championship, I dont want another Trent Green, I dont want a Dolphins turnaround, I want the damn Lombardi trophy back in Kansas City. Cassel better produce one.

SNR
03-06-2009, 12:25 PM
WTF is wrong with that? I want a damn Super Bowl championship, I dont want another Trent Green, I dont want a Dolphins turnaround, I want the damn Lombardi trophy back in Kansas City. Cassel better produce one.Either way, you can probably change your signature :p

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 12:30 PM
Others say Matt Cassel is an extrovert in the locker room, a prankster and a hopeless optimist who gets his personality from his mom, Barbara, a prime-time Emmy-winning set designer. Barbara cried that spring day in 2005 when Cassel's life turned. He'd spent five years as a backup at USC, sandwiched between Heisman Trophy winners Carson Palmer and Matt Leinart. He'd been told by at least one assistant coach that there was nothing wrong with pursuing an NFL dream just as long as he didn't get his hopes up.

The prank wars he and Brady got into were LEGENDARY.

Cassell once had Brady's car filled with styrofoam popcorn kernel things. In return, Brady had Cassell's tires stolen and left his car on concrete blocks. When asked, Brady basically said "don't screw with someone who makes alot more than you and can hire all the help he needs". ROFL

At that point, Belichick stepped in and stopped the escalating war.

Now Cassell will have as much money as he wants to prank whomever he likes.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 12:33 PM
I'm pulling for the guy, I really am.

I'm just very leery of trading for a 1-year wonder, a career backup without a strong arm who nearly got cut last year.

First, where is this "no strong arm" stuff coming from? He's not some noodle arm. His arm strenght is fine. It's not cut through diamonds, but he's fine in arm strength. I heard this same crap about Brady compared to Bledsoe.

Second, he was NOT nearly cut last year. BB named him the #2. If he was that close to getting cut, he wouldn't have bene #2, and the Pats would've signed a vet to start to replace Brady instead of keeping Cassell.

You're wrong on both counts here.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 12:35 PM
Why does everyone say Cassell doesn't have a strong arm? Did you not see the play he made against the Jets? He's thrown for more 400 yard games then Tom Brady.

I have no freaking idea. His arm strength is FINE.

I saw him OVERthrow Moss. I saw him throw deep outs. He's good in that department.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 12:35 PM
I watched hours of highlights the Saturday we traded for him. Sure didn't seem to me he had a noodle arm. No, he's not Jay Cutler, but I wasn't saying "Damn this guy reminds me of Rich Gannon" either. He had great velocity on the intermediate throws especially.

AND he's highly accurate.

Chocolate Hog
03-06-2009, 12:38 PM
Amnorix correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing fans should watch about Cassell is his delivery is a bit slower and he makes plays when the O-line blocks. In other words if the o-line is shit he won't be that good like most Quarterbacks.

Earthling
03-06-2009, 12:40 PM
He better win ****ing a Super Bowl. For the jack and what they did to our draft to get him, he better produce.

Yep. And if he loses a game this year I say throw the bum out! :D

ChiefRon
03-06-2009, 01:16 PM
First, where is this "no strong arm" stuff coming from? He's not some noodle arm. His arm strenght is fine. It's not cut through diamonds, but he's fine in arm strength. I heard this same crap about Brady compared to Bledsoe.

Second, he was NOT nearly cut last year. BB named him the #2. If he was that close to getting cut, he wouldn't have bene #2, and the Pats would've signed a vet to start to replace Brady instead of keeping Cassell.

You're wrong on both counts here.

Well, I thought it was you who pointed out his problems with the deep ball...

And several folks said he nearly got cut after a horrible pre-season...

Doesn't change my position on it though. I'm hopeful he's a franchise QB, but not optimistic.

El Jefe
03-06-2009, 01:27 PM
First, where is this "no strong arm" stuff coming from? He's not some noodle arm. His arm strenght is fine. It's not cut through diamonds, but he's fine in arm strength. I heard this same crap about Brady compared to Bledsoe.

Second, he was NOT nearly cut last year. BB named him the #2. If he was that close to getting cut, he wouldn't have bene #2, and the Pats would've signed a vet to start to replace Brady instead of keeping Cassell.

You're wrong on both counts here.


Thanks for this post, I'm damn tired of hearing all these statements over and over again.

FringeNC
03-06-2009, 01:28 PM
How many of the top QBs in the league have a rocket arm? Whether Cassel is a star QB or another stiff, it's not going to be because of his arm strength or lack there of.

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 01:36 PM
How many of the top QBs in the league have a rocket arm? Whether Cassel is a star QB or another stiff, it's not going to be because of his arm strength or lack there of.

This. Physical talent is alot of time very overrated. ESPECIALLY with QB's.

MVChiefFan
03-06-2009, 01:48 PM
I know some people will disagree but I'm MUCH more comfortable going with a 26 year-old QB that has had one good season in the NFL than possibly drafting the next Ryan Leaf.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 02:08 PM
I have no freaking idea. His arm strength is FINE.

I saw him OVERthrow Moss. I saw him throw deep outs. He's good in that department.

Did you ever find a collection of 2008 Pat Games, or a link to someone who might?

This. Physical talent is alot of time very overrated. ESPECIALLY with QB's.

I never gave a damn about Sanchez's arm. If that was all that mattered, I would have been a Stafford Pimp.
The ability to throw long down the sideline or to make a hail mary is insignificant next to the other 50 qualities that comprise a great QB and leader.

Sanchez has those qualities in spades. Stafford might one day acquire them. Does Matt Cassel have them? His game is definitely more "Sanchez" than "Stafford" which I'm cool with and pleased about, but this a whole different team, and I wish people would stop thinking this guy is gonna' line up behind behind our less than stellar O-Line and be the second coming of Len Dawson.

I wish the guy well. It's in everybody's best interest that he succeed. But just like Boomer said in the hydro-pool "There IS no benefit of the doubt; this is the NFL, and it's "what can you do for me today".

DaneMcCloud
03-06-2009, 02:16 PM
I know some people will disagree but I'm MUCH more comfortable going with a 26 year-old QB that has had one good season in the NFL than possibly drafting the next Ryan Leaf.

:Lin:

keg in kc
03-06-2009, 02:19 PM
Cassel is the Chiefs only hope. All talk of Stafford or Sanchez is a waste of breath at this point, unless they happen to go ahead and draft one at 3 anyway. We've got what we've got and it ain't changin.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 02:22 PM
:Lin:

It's the hypocrisy that kills me more than anything else. Between Matt Cassel and Mark, you've got two guys that have played ONE season apiece.

Yet just because Matt played pro behind some of the best protection you could ask for, HE's the "better guy".

He's the "safe bet".

We're gonna' find out; that's the best part of this whole affair.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 02:29 PM
Amnorix correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing fans should watch about Cassell is his delivery is a bit slower and he makes plays when the O-line blocks. In other words if the o-line is shit he won't be that good like most Quarterbacks.

well, I don't think I can really answer that well.

The first half of last year, he took alot of snaps from under center, the OLine played like crap, he and the WRs weren't very well in-tune, and in general the passing game was crap.

As the year went along, the OLine got better, he took more snaps from shotgun, and he and his WRs figured out what the F they were doing, and the passing offense looked pretty damn good.

I think it's almost impossible fo rany QB to look good with a crap OLine. But he is mobile and his pocket presence got ALOT better as the year went along, so I think he'll do as well as any other QB with a mediocre OLine.

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 02:33 PM
I never gave a damn about Sanchez's arm. If that was all that mattered, I would have been a Stafford Pimp.
The ability to throw long down the sideline or to make a hail mary is insignificant next to the other 50 qualities that comprise a great QB and leader.

Sanchez has those qualities in spades. Stafford might one day acquire them. Does Matt Cassel have them? His game is definitely more "Sanchez" than "Stafford" which I'm cool with and pleased about, but this a whole different team, and I wish people would stop thinking this guy is gonna' line up behind behind our less than stellar O-Line and be the second coming of Len Dawson.

I wish the guy well. It's in everybody's best interest that he succeed. But just like Boomer said in the hydro-pool "There IS no benefit of the doubt; this is the NFL, and it's "what can you do for me today".

I was always a little higher on Sanchez than Stafford too.

ChiefsCountry
03-06-2009, 02:50 PM
I know some people will disagree but I'm MUCH more comfortable going with a 26 year-old QB that has had one good season in the NFL than possibly drafting the next Ryan Leaf.

Safe doesnt win championships.

keg in kc
03-06-2009, 02:52 PM
Spending a 2nd rounder on a 26-year old that's started 15 games since high school isn't exactly what I'd call 'safe'. You guys have an interesting way of seeing things.

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 02:54 PM
Spending a 2nd rounder on a 26-year old that's started 15 games since high school isn't exactly what I'd call 'safe'. You guys have an interesting way of seeing things.

In relative terms, Cassel's limited experience came at the highest level, while Sanchez got 13 games against opponents of varying degrees of ability.

In that sense, Cassel is SAFER than Sanchez.

But SAFER than RISKY <> SAFE

T-post Tom
03-06-2009, 02:55 PM
Safe doesnt win championships.


And boards don't hit back. :)

Spott
03-06-2009, 02:56 PM
I want the damn Lombardi trophy back in Kansas City. Cassel better produce one.

Actually, it wasn't called the Lombardi trophy back then. They didn't start calling it the year after the Chiefs were in Super Bowl IV.

Otter
03-06-2009, 02:57 PM
Who the hell is John Jenia Jr. and how is he relevent?

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 03:00 PM
It's the hypocrisy that kills me more than anything else. Between Matt Cassel and Mark, you've got two guys that have played ONE season apiece.

Yet just because Matt played pro behind some of the best protection you could ask for, HE's the "better guy".

He's the "safe bet".

We're gonna' find out; that's the best part of this whole affair.

Hypocracy? It's ironic you would use that term in particular.

All you clowns have done is post on thread after thread after thread calling people out for being too scared to aquire a young QB to build a team around. Even though people told you time after time after time that it wasn't getting a QB it was not wanting to draft Sanchez.

I personally argued several times that you Sanchez ballwashers were not interested in "a QB" you were on a mission to attack anyone who didn't want Sanchez.

Now look. We have aquired a QB with our second rounder that has NFL experience, young, and has shown the potential to be a QB you can build a team around and kept our 1st rounder to add even more talent.

All you ball washers can do is run around pouting acting like evryone on this board dont see through your BS.

You really have no clue of what you really look like, do you? It's amazing that you would think that the people around you share the same stupidity that you do. You guys have been getting clowned on this issue for weeks, and now that it's over, you choose to clown yourselves. Pointing your fingers calling people hypocrites.

Your agenda will not be realized. Now it's time to sack up and move on.

Trying to argue the point that Sanchez has adequate experience somehow is so stupid, I'm laughing as I write this.ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

MVChiefFan
03-06-2009, 03:02 PM
I figured I would get disagreed with and that's fine, to each his own. But whether Cassell wins us a championship or not, it's my feeling that there have been several QB's picked in the top three that NEVER put up numbers like Cassell did last year.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 03:03 PM
Well, I thought it was you who pointed out his problems with the deep ball...

HITTING it. They were just never coordinated.

And several folks said he nearly got cut after a horrible pre-season...

Yeah, fan/reporter specualtion because he sucked during preseason.

But BB made him #2, and never brought in a vet, so how close was he to getting cut? Obviously, he wasn't, and just as obviously, BB once again proved he knows a *wee* bit more about the game of football than reporters/fans.

keg in kc
03-06-2009, 03:04 PM
In relative terms, Cassel's limited experience came at the highest level, while Sanchez got 13 games against opponents of varying degrees of ability.

In that sense, Cassel is SAFER than Sanchez.

But SAFER than RISKY <> SAFEPeople (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

MVChiefFan
03-06-2009, 03:06 PM
People (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

Ryan Leaf never played like Cassell did last year. He was 1-15 passing in the game against us for crying out loud.

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 03:08 PM
People (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

Pretty much.

Otter
03-06-2009, 03:15 PM
People (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

My only caveat to that statement is that if Cassel were half the head case liability that Leaf proved to be it would be known by now. I think it's a safer gamble in that aspect but the rest is pretty much right on the money.

htismaqe
03-06-2009, 03:16 PM
My only caveat to that statement is that if Cassel were half the head case liability that Leaf proved to be it would be known by now. I think it's a safer gamble in that aspect but the rest is pretty much right on the money.

Good point.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 03:19 PM
Ryan Leaf never played like Cassell did last year. He was 1-15 passing in the game against us for crying out loud.

He sucked early in the season. He got progressively better. MUCH better. Infinitely better.

ChiefRon
03-06-2009, 03:21 PM
People (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

This is my POV as well. Time will tell.

Like I said, he's our QB now and I will root like hell for him to succeed.

But hey, at least we can quite arguing about which QB to get.

It will be interesting to watch them build around him, and how Haley will implement his sytem to tailor to his strengths. Apparently arm-strength is one. ;)

Saccopoo
03-06-2009, 03:21 PM
It's a gamble, sure, but the odds of Cassel meeting expectations versus an untested rookie are much better IMHO. Sure, he's only started 15 games, but they were NFL games and he has been in the league for four years, learning, understanding, working with the pro NFL sets, watching NFL game film, going against NFL defenses, etc. It's like drafting Sanchez (who I liked and hoped that the Chiefs would draft prior to the Cassel trade) in terms of mileage on the body, but getting four years of NFL level knowledge and experience. And we still get to keep our #1 pick, and get a perennial All-Pro linebacker too boot.

This is a substantially better alternative than drafting a rookie QB and HOPING that he turns out okay. With Cassel, at least we know that he can succeed against NFL competition. (And it's not like he's playing in the AFC East anymore either. Heck, if he can go 11-5 in the AFC East, I'm giddy about the possibilities of him facing these stellar AFC West defenses.)

As well, Cassel has more than adequate arm strength. Whoever said he can't throw the deep ball is an idiot. And his passes are damn near perfect. His spiral is as tight as I've ever seen. After a year of watching Thigpen throw end over end "punts" ten feet above, beyond or behind his receivers, I'm giddy about watching someone throw a good, accurate ball.

And he's also quite athletic, especially considering his size. Runs extremely well.

And he is not Ryan Leaf. Four years of being in the league in the Pats system basically ensures this. Ryan was unstable. He was like that at Washington, like that his first day in the NFL and continues that way today. However, Ryan Leaf did have all the tools physically. Cassel is liked by his teammates, was playing some really good ball by the end of the season, and has all the physical tools.

This is not Leaf, this is not a rookie who may or may not make it. This is a guy who can step in immediately and contribute. And a guy who is not your first round pick which can now be used on whoever/BPA, traded down for more picks, etc. It's a win/win situation in terms of what the Chiefs needed and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any negativity regarding the trade, or thinking that we have to be Super Bowl bound this year for it to be justified.

Amnorix
03-06-2009, 03:21 PM
My only caveat to that statement is that if Cassel were half the head case liability that Leaf proved to be it would be known by now. I think it's a safer gamble in that aspect but the rest is pretty much right on the money.

Ya think. Here is Bill f'n Belichick's statement on Cassell. What is anyone thinking even beginnin to compare him to Ryan Dips**t Leaf??

It is very easy to root for guys like Matt Cassel, who do everything the right way and flourish as a result," Patriots Coach Bill Belichick said in a written statement released by the club. "As much as we would have loved to continue working with Matt, we wish him nothing but the best as he takes this next step forward in his career."

ChiefRon
03-06-2009, 03:31 PM
It's a win/win situation in terms of what the Chiefs needed and I don't see how anyone could possibly have any negativity regarding the trade, or thinking that we have to be Super Bowl bound this year for it to be justified.

Depends on how these guys progress over the next few years.

If Cassel is "meh" and Sanchez is considered one of the top 5 QBs in the league, how will you feel then?

Anyways, it's pointless to continue arguing about it.

We have our QB now, he is "our only hope" for the forseeable future.

Let's move on, and discuss our excitement over signing LB Darrell Robertson. :)

ChiefsCountry
03-06-2009, 03:33 PM
I am not going to root against Cassel bc that would be pretty foolish to wish ill on my team but if Sanchez or Stafford win the Super Bowl I will be beyond pissed off.

keg in kc
03-06-2009, 03:35 PM
My only caveat to that statement is that if Cassel were half the head case liability that Leaf proved to be it would be known by now. I think it's a safer gamble in that aspect but the rest is pretty much right on the money.I didn't mean to infer that he could literally 'be ryan leaf', just that he could bust.

He could also be Peyton Manning.

(Which doesn't literally mean that he could be Peyton Manning, just that he could boom.)

MVChiefFan
03-06-2009, 03:53 PM
I didn't mean to infer that he could literally 'be ryan leaf', just that he could bust.

He could also be Peyton Manning.

(Which doesn't literally mean that he could be Peyton Manning, just that he could boom.)

I'll give ya that. It's kind of my take too, no matter what way you go it's really a coin toss. Hopefully it will land on the right side this time. :D

Saccopoo
03-06-2009, 03:54 PM
I am not going to root against Cassel bc that would be pretty foolish to wish ill on my team but if Sanchez or Stafford win the Super Bowl I will be beyond pissed off.

Dan Marino never won the Super Bowl. Neither did Jim Kelly. Nor Fran Tarkington.

There are so many factors that are involved (defense, coaching, team chemistry, the right matchups in the playoffs, etc.), that it is virtually impossible for a singular person to "win" the Super Bowl. If Sanchez or Stafford win the Super Bowl, it will certainly not be because of them singularly. As such, I think Cassel, at least at this point, gives us a better chance of winning now, and continuing to get better as a team than if we had rookie qb from the upcoming draft. Rookie will have to sit and learn for a year or more, while the team disintegrates because your core veterans don't want to have to go through yet another re-build. As well, you don't know if rookie is going to even make it in the league. At least with Cassel, you know the guy has already been to 11-5 and has four years of NFL knowledge behind him and everyone that knows him or has been around him only has said positives about him. Rookie does not. Jay Cutler, Jamarcus Russell, Brady Quinn, Matt Leinert, et al. They haven't won jack. And there is no guarantee that rookie '09 will either.

Basically, I liken it to heart surgery. You clutch your chest in pain, are rushed to the hospital and are about to die if you don't go under the knife. You have two choices: 1. A hot shit kid fresh out of med school with tons of potential whose never picked up a scalpel, or; 2. A fifth year intern who's worked/studied under the best heart surgeon in the business and who already has successfully operated on people for a year.

Who do you pick?

Just Passin' By
03-06-2009, 04:01 PM
I know some people will disagree but I'm MUCH more comfortable going with a 26 year-old QB that has had one good season in the NFL than possibly drafting the next Ryan Leaf.

Ryan Leaf was drafted #2 overall. The Chiefs got Cassel for a second round pick. If Cassel is only mediocre, all it costs is money and a second round draft pick which can be fairly easily recouped either this year or in the near future. In the meantime, Pioli can draft another core member for the future at the #3 spot, and the team will have improved dramatically in just one offseason.

I love what Denver is doing in free agency, and I think San Diego still has the most talent in the division, but the Chiefs are going to be able to take good, solid first steps under the new regime. Unfortunately, the schedule is probably going to turn out to be a bear this season, and the improvement may not translate to wins. It'll be interesting to watch fan reaction if that happens.

Pasta Giant Meatball
03-06-2009, 04:20 PM
He sucked early in the season. He got progressively better. MUCH better. Infinitely better.

He had like 2100 yards passing and a 14-4 TD to INT ratio with a very nice completion percentage and high QB rating the 2nd half of the year. Once he got in sync with the recievers, he played like a stud.

FAX
03-06-2009, 05:19 PM
Who the hell is John Jenia Jr. and how is he relevent?

Yeah. And how do we know he isn't gay?

FAX

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 05:21 PM
In relative terms, Cassel's limited experience came at the highest level, while Sanchez got 13 games against opponents of varying degrees of ability.

In that sense, Cassel is SAFER than Sanchez.

But SAFER than RISKY <> SAFE


If we're gonna' go with a "Sanchez-like" QB whose mechanics, ability to create misdirection, and speed of execution are barely in the same zip code; why not acquire the real deal?

Is Cassel's arm that much greater? Or is this just a case of "familiarity breeds familiarity"?

:shrug:

FAX
03-06-2009, 05:23 PM
I don't know why everyone assumes that we're completely out of the quarterback market at this point. It may very well come to pass that Pioli isn't finished filling out the stable.

Also, I would just like to take a moment to personally thank Mr. Amnorix for all the insight, background, and detailed information regarding all these NE guys. I'm really glad you're here, Mr. Amnorix, and grateful for your counsel. If you were in the neighborhood, I'd buy you a cold one, peep.

FAX

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 05:29 PM
Hypocracy?

First, learn to fucking spell, please.


Second, if you'll just pull on through the drive-thru and find a spot in in the parking lot, we'll have your Super-Size Bag O' Dicks ready for you momentarily.

4321 Fuckface.

SNR
03-06-2009, 05:47 PM
If we're gonna' go with a "Sanchez-like" QB whose mechanics, ability to create misdirection, and speed of execution are barely in the same zip code; why not acquire the real deal?

Is Cassel's arm that much greater? Or is this just a case of "familiarity breeds familiarity"?

:shrug:Dude, you know why Pioli pulled the trigger?

The Patriot Way you claim you hate is as much a good ol' boy network as Carl's was... only it's at another level. The players/coaches don't suck in this network, but the "familiarity" requisite is ridiculously crucial. Why the hell did we sign Darrell Robinson (Robertson? Doesn't matter I guess)? It's because Pioli's worked with him before.

If we agree that Sanchez and Cassell have similar playing styles and are about equal in terms of physical tools, then Pioli obviously is going to want the guy he's worked with and known for years, because of the way he wants to build the team- based on togetherness, chemistry, and all that jazz.

AND if you can get the guy with whom you're more familiar for the 34th pick in the draft instead of the 3rd pick in the draft... why not?

You don't have to like it or agree with it, but I'll bet you $10 and a bag of doughnuts that this is exactly what Pioli thought about when he was making his decision to acquire Cassel/the next QB for this team.

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 05:58 PM
First, learn to ****ing spell, please.


Second, if you'll just pull on through the drive-thru and find a spot in in the parking lot, we'll have your Super-Size Bag O' Dicks ready for you momentarily.

4321 ****face.

How'd I know you worked the drive thru?

Sorry about the misspelled word.

Selling bags of dicks has made you a little overly sensative.

Keep your chin up, and your mouth shut down at the Peckerhut. Things are bound to get better sooner or later, little feller.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:05 PM
People (both for the move and against it) are treating this like it's the front office bringing in a seasoned 33-year old veteran. It's not. This is the Chiefs gamble on a franchise quarterback. I get that it's not the gamble many people (including me) wanted to take. But it's going to have exactly the same implications, be they positive or negative, that drafting someone at 3 would have had. Cassel himself could be our Ryan Leaf.

True.




I am not going to root against Cassel bc that would be pretty foolish to wish ill on my team but if Sanchez or Stafford win the Super Bowl I will be beyond pissed off.

100% Agreement.

Dude, you know why Pioli pulled the trigger?

The Patriot Way you claim you hate is as much a good ol' boy network as Carl's was... only it's at another level. The players/coaches don't suck in this network, but the "familiarity" requisite is ridiculously crucial. Why the hell did we sign Darrell Robinson (Robertson? Doesn't matter I guess)? It's because Pioli's worked with him before.

If we agree that Sanchez and Cassell have similar playing styles and are about equal in terms of physical tools, then Pioli obviously is going to want the guy he's worked with and known for years, because of the way he wants to build the team- based on togetherness, chemistry, and all that jazz.

AND if you can get the guy with whom you're more familiar for the 34th pick in the draft instead of the 3rd pick in the draft... why not?

You don't have to like it or agree with it, but I'll bet you $10 and a bag of doughnuts that this is exactly what Pioli thought about when he was making his decision to acquire Cassel/the next QB for this team.

I'm sure it was. No argument here on that front.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:10 PM
How'd I know you worked the drive thru?

Sorry about the misspelled word.

Selling bags of dicks has made you a little overly sensative.

Keep your chin up, and your mouth shut down at the Peckerhut. Things are bound to get better sooner or later, little feller.

I guess I should keep you, our best, most dick-eating customer happy. All apologies good sir!

Lex Luthor
03-06-2009, 06:21 PM
He better win ****ing a Super Bowl. For the jack and what they did to our draft to get him, he better produce.
Yeah, because a single pick in the second round is an OUTRAGEOUS price to pay for a starting quarterback. OUTRAGEOUS!

rad
03-06-2009, 06:26 PM
I guess I should keep you, our best, most dick-eating customer happy. All apologies good sir!

It would have been funnier if you mentioned the dick sock in there somewhere.

I'm just here to help.....

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:28 PM
Yeah, because a single pick in the second round is an OUTRAGEOUS price to pay for a starting quarterback. OUTRAGEOUS!

It DID fuck our position in the draft, and how many more Belichick cast-offs will we have to adopt before this "great bargain" is finally paid for?

No one wanted to comment on this the LAST time I brought it up, so let's try again!

Come on Kool-Aid brain-trust; step on up and ponder THAT mystery if you have the brains and balls to do so!

FAX
03-06-2009, 06:29 PM
Ahem.

Excuse me, but am I on universal ignore? If someone would kindly let me know if you see this post, I would appreciate the consideration.

FAX

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:31 PM
It would have been funnier if you mentioned the dick sock in there somewhere.

I'm just here to help.....

All help is appreciated, and thank you.

Frankly, the only thing I'd find funnier, is simply cold-cocking this ass clown.

rad
03-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Ahem.

Excuse me, but am I on universal ignore? If someone would kindly let me know if you see this post, I would appreciate the consideration.

FAX

I see you, but I think you may be gay.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:32 PM
Ahem.

Excuse me, but am I on universal ignore? If someone would kindly let me know if you see this post, I would appreciate the consideration.

FAX

You're here.

FAX
03-06-2009, 06:33 PM
I see you, but I think you may be gay.

Thanks, Mr. rad. Appreciate it.

I think.

FAX

rad
03-06-2009, 06:35 PM
Thanks, Mr. rad. Appreciate it.

I think.

FAX

:D

;)

Lex Luthor
03-06-2009, 06:36 PM
It DID **** our position in the draft, and how many more Belichick cast-offs will we have to adopt before this "great bargain" is finally paid for?

No one wanted to comment on this the LAST time I brought it up, so let's try again!

Come on Kool-Aid brain-trust; step on up and ponder THAT mystery if you have the brains and balls to do so!
If the Chiefs drafted a quarterback in the second round and he immediately became the starter, I don't think you'd be making the claim that it ****ed up the draft.

But if you insist upon making statements like that, maybe that's why they are ignored.

t3chiefs
03-06-2009, 06:45 PM
I am a little worried about having a new QB. I'm not sure how well a new QB will get used to his new players. I don't much, but I'm pretty sure that knowing your team is a big part of being a successful QB. I could be very wrong though.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 06:48 PM
If the Chiefs drafted a quarterback in the second round and he immediately became the starter, I don't think you'd be making the claim that it ****ed up the draft.

But if you insist upon making statements like that, maybe that's why they are ignored.

And if wishes were horses, we'd all ride off in to the sunset!

What good is that 3rd overall pick now?! What GM in his right mind is gonna' pay top 5 overall money to a rookie receiver, defensive end, or god-forbid right tackle?!

Who's gonna' give their entire fucking house to Scott Pioli for that pick?!

And if you can find someone stupid enough to do it, then I suggest you give Mr. Pioli a call!

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 06:59 PM
And if wishes were horses, we'd all ride off in to the sunset!

What good is that 3rd overall pick now?! What GM in his right mind is gonna' pay top 5 overall money to a rookie receiver, defensive end, or god-forbid right tackle?!

Who's gonna' give their entire ****ing house to Scott Pioli for that pick?!

And if you can find someone stupid enough to do it, then I suggest you give Mr. Pioli a call!

Awesome post.ROFL

Lex Luthor
03-06-2009, 07:08 PM
And if wishes were horses, we'd all ride off in to the sunset!

What good is that 3rd overall pick now?! What GM in his right mind is gonna' pay top 5 overall money to a rookie receiver, defensive end, or god-forbid right tackle?!

Who's gonna' give their entire ****ing house to Scott Pioli for that pick?!

And if you can find someone stupid enough to do it, then I suggest you give Mr. Pioli a call!
You're making the assumption that you must trade the 3rd overall pick in order to have a successful draft. News flash: YOU DON"T HAVE TO TRADE IT.

I'm thinking Aaron Curry would look pretty good in a Chiefs uniform.

munkey
03-06-2009, 07:09 PM
Guarantee if Cassel doesn't perform at a high level the next two seasons, we'll have another QB under center. I hope he kicks ass.

like drew breeze...but wait...he sucks...

the Talking Can
03-06-2009, 07:12 PM
just for fun, here are his numbers over the last 8 games...the one hiccup was his debacle against Pittsburgh...and sacks:

Team-QB rating

BUF - 89.8 td 0 int 0 sacks 1 compl % 68.8
NYJ - 103.4 td 3 int 0 sacks 3 compl % 58.8
MIA - 114.0 td 3 int 1 sacks 2 compl % 69.8
PIT - 39.4 td 0 int 2 sacks 5 compl % 48.7
SEA - 84.3 td 1 int 0 sacks 3 compl % 59.1
OAK - 108.1 td 4 int 1 sacks 3 compl % 60.0
ARI - 116.1 td 3 int 0 sacks 1 compl % 55.6
BUF - 105.2 td 0 int 0 sacks 1 compl % 75 (only threw 8 passes, don't know why)


last 8 games

95.04 QB rating
61.98 compl %
14 td
4 int
19 sacks

Mecca
03-06-2009, 07:13 PM
He threw 8 passes because Buffalo had like 50 MPH wind that day.

wild1
03-06-2009, 07:23 PM
I watched hours of highlights the Saturday we traded for him. Sure didn't seem to me he had a noodle arm. No, he's not Jay Cutler, but I wasn't saying "Damn this guy reminds me of Rich Gannon" either. He had great velocity on the intermediate throws especially.

i think all that talk is just fanatical reaction from the crowd that thinks we will be a moribund franchise for another decade if we don't spend our top pick on a QB... has nothing to do with the players or the facts....

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 07:38 PM
You're making the assumption that you must trade the 3rd overall pick in order to have a successful draft. News flash: YOU DON"T HAVE TO TRADE IT.

I'm thinking Aaron Curry would look pretty good in a Chiefs uniform.

I'm thinking he'd be overpaid, and that was the point of my post. If Cassel's the guy, then you absolutely get rid of that 3rd and stockpile the FUCK out of the later rounds.

THAT is smart. Anything else is NOT.

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 08:12 PM
I'm thinking he'd be overpaid, and that was the point of my post. If Cassel's the guy, then you absolutely get rid of that 3rd and stockpile the **** out of the later rounds.

THAT is smart. Anything else is NOT.

So....what would someone smart like you trade the 3rd pick in the draft, for "later rounds" expect in return?

According to the Chart it would be worth

5 or so second rounders
12 or so 3rd rounders
30 or so 4th rounders
75 or so 5th rounders
100 6th rounders
or maybe 250+ 7th rounders.

Who's your trade partner?

I say we either go for the 30 4th rounders, or we go for the kill and get over 250 7th rounders for 1 pick.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 08:16 PM
So....what would someone smart like you trade the 3rd pick in the draft, for "later rounds" expect in return?

According to the Chart it would be worth

5 or so second rounders
12 or so 3rd rounders
30 or so 4th rounders
75 or so 5th rounders
100 6th rounders
or maybe 250+ 7th rounders.

Who's your trade partner?

I say we either go for the 30 4th rounders, or we go for the kill and get over 250 7th rounders for 1 pick.

Obviously, you go second or third. As to who my "trade partner" is, I'm sure Pioli The Genius can find a suitable rube.

keg in kc
03-06-2009, 08:19 PM
I think the chart's out the window this year anyway. If we do trade down (which I hope we can) I don't think we'll get the same kind of value we would in a stronger draft.

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 08:23 PM
Obviously, you go second or third. As to who my "trade partner" is, I'm sure Pioli The Genius can find a suitable rube.

I'd say 1st he has to find someone with 5 second rounders or 12 third rounders.ROFL That ought to narrow the trade partners a bit.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 08:26 PM
Obviously, you go second or third. As to who my "trade partner" is, I'm sure Pioli The Genius can find a suitable rube.

OR, you move further down the pecking order in the first to target whoever they may want to target, and to possibly give some team who needs a quarterback and doesn't have their head up their ass a chance to draft him and whip your ass in the playoffs a couple of years down the road!:p

DeezNutz
03-06-2009, 08:27 PM
I think the chart's out the window this year anyway. If we do trade down (which I hope we can) I don't think we'll get the same kind of value we would in a stronger draft.

If we could swap firsts with someone and drop 5-8 spots and pick up at least a second, I'd be ok with it.

We're not going to get full value in a trade-down scenario, that's for sure.

mlyonsd
03-06-2009, 08:28 PM
I think the chart's out the window this year anyway. If we do trade down (which I hope we can) I don't think we'll get the same kind of value we would in a stronger draft.

Chief luck. We suck when sucking doesn't pay off. :D

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 08:28 PM
I'd say 1st he has to find someone with 5 second rounders or 12 third rounders.ROFL That ought to narrow the trade partners a bit.

Or, maybe he can do his fucking job like the genius he's supposed to be, so we can fill the many, many, many, many, MANY holes we have on O-line, Defense, and Special Teams, yes?

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 08:29 PM
Chief luck. We suck when sucking doesn't pay off. :D

True, and REP.

CrazyHorse
03-06-2009, 08:33 PM
If we could swap firsts with someone and drop 5-8 spots and pick up at least a second, I'd be ok with it.

We're not going to get full value in a trade-down scenario, that's for sure.

What player would you be targeting there?

It would be nice to get the 2nd back.

rad
03-06-2009, 08:40 PM
I think the chart's out the window this year anyway. If we do trade down (which I hope we can) I don't think we'll get the same kind of value we would in a stronger draft.

Oh great another the draft chart is dumb guy.../mecca

MadMax
03-06-2009, 08:43 PM
OR, you move further down the pecking order in the first to target whoever they may want to target, and to possibly give some team who needs a quarterback and doesn't have their head up their ass a chance to draft him and whip your ass in the playoffs a couple of years down the road!:p




heh you said pecking. Pioli is a mastermind now? I thought that only applied to all goofball arab goatsuckers?

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 08:56 PM
heh you said pecking. Pioli is a mastermind now? I thought that only applied to all goofball arab goatsuckers?

It was facetious.

mlyonsd
03-06-2009, 09:15 PM
True, and REP.

I honestly believed Pioli might keep Herm around for one more year just to pad the roster.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 09:19 PM
I honestly believed Pioli might keep Herm around for one more year just to pad the roster.

I doubt his pride would have ever allowed it, but Herm as a CB Coach does not make me vomit.

FAX
03-06-2009, 11:17 PM
I honestly believed Pioli might keep Herm around for one more year just to pad the roster.

Well, Herm can certainly talk the talk. Unfortunately, he also talks the walk, talks to talk, and can talk your flocking cock sock off.

FAX

DeezNutz
03-06-2009, 11:25 PM
What player would you be targeting there?

It would be nice to get the 2nd back.

This would be a good time to get a LB.

I think Curry goes a bit later than most mocks have him projected. Maualuga would be worth considering.

If we make the switch to 3-4, Raji would have to be a consideration.

Hell, if you slide back to around 10-11, you can even start thinking about Maclin. Lots of viable options at this point...

#3 just ties your hands in this draft if you don't need a LT and you're not going to take one of the QB's.

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 11:38 PM
This would be a good time to get a LB.

I think Curry goes a bit later than most mocks have him projected. Maualuga would be worth considering.

If we make the switch to 3-4, Raji would have to be a consideration.

Hell, if you slide back to around 10-11, you can even start thinking about Maclin. Lots of viable options at this point...

#3 just ties your hands in this draft if you don't need a LT and you're not going to take one of the QB's.

I'd sure love to get a coup d'etat on a couple linebackers, and hopefully one of which can work the outside.

Johnson and Thomas( assuming Thomas is still even a part of this team )are absolutely pathetic.

FAX
03-06-2009, 11:48 PM
I'd sure love to get a coup d'etat on a couple linebackers, and hopefully one of which can work the outside.

Johnson and Thomas( assuming Thomas is still even a part of this team )are absolutely pathetic.

It's pretty tough to accurately judge a linebacker who's playing in a failed scheme, coached by morons, and backing a d-line that can't hold water.

Just sayin'.

FAX

Darth CarlSatan
03-06-2009, 11:56 PM
It's pretty tough to accurately judge a linebacker who's playing in a failed scheme, coached by morons, and backing a d-line that can't hold water.

Just sayin'.

FAX

Ray Farmer and I agree; make chicken salad from chicken shit. Take the guys you were playing with, and make them look like more than they are.

Good enough for Ray; good enough for DCS.

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 12:31 AM
He better win ****ing a Super Bowl. For the jack and what they did to our draft to get him, he better produce.

Yeah god damnit! We spent the #34 overall on Matt Cassel! We could have landed the next Junior Siavii!

I don't think anyone was demanding Brandon Flowers (#35 overall) better "win a fucking Super Bowl" last year.

He didn't do jack shit to our draft...other than us landing a 1st round value in the 2nd round along with a steady veteran defensive presence.

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 12:35 AM
Spending a 2nd rounder on a 26-year old that's started 15 games since high school isn't exactly what I'd call 'safe'. You guys have an interesting way of seeing things.

Yeah we could land Junior Siavii...shit, last time Pioli had a pick this high in the 2nd round he landed Chad Jackson!

Nothing in the 2nd round is a sure thing...not even close...

Matt Cassel is the surest thing we'll ever find in the 2nd round...there is documented proof (2008 season) he can play QB in the NFL.

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 12:46 AM
Yeah god damnit! We spent the #34 overall on Matt Cassel! We could have landed the next Junior Siavii!

I don't think anyone was demanding Brandon Flowers (#35 overall) better "win a fucking Super Bowl" last year.

He didn't do jack shit to our draft...other than us landing a 1st round value in the 2nd round along with a steady veteran defensive presence.

Brandon Flowers is a Cornerback, NOT the leader of your offense. But hey, I just shipped Cassel his Jesus robe and sent the Mormon Tabernacle Boys Choir to KC for the Official Annointing.

Happy?

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 12:49 AM
Brandon Flowers is a Cornerback, NOT the leader of your offense. But hey, I just shipped Cassel his Jesus robe and sent the Mormon Tabernacle Boys Choir to KC for the Official Annointing.

Happy?

Don't give a shit.

Everyone is talking about how valuable this 2nd round pick is and how Cassel better do this and better do that...

Yeah, I'd agree if he was shipped away for the #3 pick...but instead we shipped him away for a pick that would come with FAR more ??? than Matt Cassel.

Smed1065
03-07-2009, 12:52 AM
Ray Farmer and I agree; make chicken salad from chicken shit. Take the guys you were playing with, and make them look like more than they are.

Good enough for Ray; good enough for DCS.

Honest question, Is Ray Farmer still here?

Smed1065
03-07-2009, 12:54 AM
Ray Farmer and I agree; make chicken salad from chicken shit. Take the guys you were playing with, and make them look like more than they are.

Good enough for Ray; good enough for DCS.


But worry and bitch about SB winners? LOL

This has to be a dup.


ROFL

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 12:59 AM
Don't give a shit.

Everyone is talking about how valuable this 2nd round pick is and how Cassel better do this and better do that...

Yeah, I'd agree if he was shipped away for the #3 pick...but instead we shipped him away for a pick that would come with FAR more ??? than Matt Cassel.

Trading down from 3rd overall in round one is a bitch. And now that we're not using that pick on a player worth that kind of value, we have to dump it. If you thought picking a QB with the 3rd was a absurd, you can damn sure bet your ass the value of that pick is not going to be wasted on a lesser position; that's not the "New England Way", remember?

Honest question, Is Ray Farmer still here?

Not sure.

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 01:04 AM
But worry and bitch about SB winners? LOL

This has to be a dup.


ROFL

I have NO idea what kind of a point you're trying to make.

ChiefsCountry
03-07-2009, 01:29 AM
Yeah god damnit! We spent the #34 overall on Matt Cassel! We could have landed the next Junior Siavii!

I don't think anyone was demanding Brandon Flowers (#35 overall) better "win a fucking Super Bowl" last year.

He didn't do jack shit to our draft...other than us landing a 1st round value in the 2nd round along with a steady veteran defensive presence.

quarterback is different than cornerback dipshit
Posted via Mobile Device

KcFanInGA
03-07-2009, 01:58 AM
Sometimes it never ends. People bitch and moan that we arent gonna get Stafford or Sanchez. But if we got them, then those same people would say "why dont they start stafford?" "stafford is ready for nfl defenses, that is we are pretty sure. no you are not sure! matt cassell has played against an nfl defense, and won game doing it. guess some people just love to complain.

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 02:48 AM
Sometimes it never ends. People bitch and moan that we arent gonna get Stafford or Sanchez. But if we got them, then those same people would say "why dont they start stafford?" "stafford is ready for nfl defenses, that is we are pretty sure. no you are not sure! matt cassell has played against an nfl defense, and won game doing it. guess some people just love to complain.

Ideally, you draft an elite prospect and he works the clipboard for a season while learning the team's Offense. He's also being coached, trained, and perfected to the best extent possible for his eventual debut.

Now you might say, "well that's what we've got with Cassel; a second year starter who's been groomed and is ready to go", and you're right.

The problem, is that he's about two to three seasons late in starting his actual first-string field time. He's at the age where a great QB is normally hitting his peak or at least ascending.
In short; he's late to the party.
He's gonna' have to work harder, and pray that his end-result is a Cinderella Story for the ages.

Hopefully he will succeed. I'm tired of losing games and doing nothing play off-wise of any real significance.

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 03:47 AM
quarterback is different than cornerback dipshit
Posted via Mobile Device

I am arguing the value of #35 and #34, dipshit!

The fact we got a potential franchise QB at #34...a QB that led a team (regardless of the team's stature) to 11 wins in the AFC's toughest conference...a QB that threw for 3700 yards...a QB who was at his best down the stretch...etc. etc. etc.

I think we got pretty good value out of our #34 pick.

I suppose if the best value out of #3 is taking another QB I could live with that, like many of you want, but I HIGHLY doubt Pioli's first moves as GM would be to use our two high picks on QB's...makes no sense.

Pioli is sold on Cassel...if Pioli is sold on him, it's time for you drafturbators to jump on board and stop being such miserable pieces of shit...

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 03:49 AM
Ideally, you draft an elite prospect and he works the clipboard for a season while learning the team's Offense. He's also being coached, trained, and perfected to the best extent possible for his eventual debut.

Now you might say, "well that's what we've got with Cassel; a second year starter who's been groomed and is ready to go", and you're right.

The problem, is that he's about two to three seasons late in starting his actual first-string field time. He's at the age where a great QB is normally hitting his peak or at least ascending.
In short; he's late to the party.
He's gonna' have to work harder, and pray that his end-result is a Cinderella Story for the ages.

Hopefully he will succeed. I'm tired of losing games and doing nothing play off-wise of any real significance.

Rivers is a year older with 3 years of experience as starter (2 on the bench), Cassel is a year younger with 1 year of experience as starter (3 on the bench)...

Cassel got to learn from the best organization and a great QB for three years...a WINNING organization...and got to experience a full year as starter for an NFL DYNASTY...

I like the value we acquired with a 2nd round pick.

Rausch
03-07-2009, 04:03 AM
Yeah we could land Junior Siavii...shit, last time Pioli had a pick this high in the 2nd round he landed Chad Jackson!

Nothing in the 2nd round is a sure thing...not even close...

Matt Cassel is the surest thing we'll ever find in the 2nd round...there is documented proof (2008 season) he can play QB in the NFL.

I'd bet Vrabel alone throws up better stats than our last three 2nd round picks...

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 04:15 AM
Rivers is a year older with 3 years of experience as starter (2 on the bench), Cassel is a year younger with 1 year of experience as starter (3 on the bench)...

Cassel got to learn from the best organization and a great QB for three years...a WINNING organization...and got to experience a full year as starter for an NFL DYNASTY...

I like the value we acquired with a 2nd round pick.

I'm cautiously optimistic about his production.

As to drafting a second QB with the 3rd, if you plan on having someone of equal talent, or talent that can be developed in to equal talent coming up behind behind Cassel, you'd BETTER jump right now.

Too bad, so sad, but Tyler Thigpen is shit, and that's all there is to it.
The Spread Monkeys who wisely took their asses back to school are shit too, but we won't be sitting on the board pecking order-wise in a position to acquire one of them next year anyway.

As to "jumping on board"? Mr. Pioli is in Missouri now. Show Me something, and then we'll discuss the matter of Kool-Aid ingestion.

Rausch
03-07-2009, 04:23 AM
As to "jumping on board"? Mr. Pioli is in Missouri now. Show Me something, and then we'll discuss the matter of Kool-Aid ingestion.

To me it's about winning a SB.

This year, next year, whatever.

Most fans act like we need to suck for a few years to accumulate the talent needed for a dynasty.

Um...we ain't won a fucking playoff game since 93.

And unless my memory is shakey all but one of those playoff losses were AT HOME.

This team is young, and young players need experience as quickly as possible. They need to experience winning, winning a division, playoff games, (and dare I dream?) playoff wins before you can ligitimately expect a SB.

RedThat
03-07-2009, 04:32 AM
To me it's about winning a SB.

This year, next year, whatever.

Most fans act like we need to suck for a few years to accumulate the talent needed for a dynasty.

Um...we ain't won a ****ing playoff game since 93.

And unless my memory is shakey all but one of those playoff losses were AT HOME.

This team is young, and young players need experience as quickly as possible. They need to experience winning, winning a division, playoff games, (and dare I dream?) playoff wins before you can ligitimately expect a SB.

Good post.

Short Leash Hootie
03-07-2009, 04:33 AM
I'm cautiously optimistic about his production.

As to drafting a second QB with the 3rd, if you plan on having someone of equal talent, or talent that can be developed in to equal talent coming up behind behind Cassel, you'd BETTER jump right now.

Too bad, so sad, but Tyler Thigpen is shit, and that's all there is to it.
The Spread Monkeys who wisely took their asses back to school are shit too, but we won't be sitting on the board pecking order-wise in a position to acquire one of them next year anyway.

As to "jumping on board"? Mr. Pioli is in Missouri now. Show Me something, and then we'll discuss the matter of Kool-Aid ingestion.

He can show you his two executive of the year awards...

RedThat
03-07-2009, 04:40 AM
Trading down from 3rd overall in round one is a bitch. And now that we're not using that pick on a player worth that kind of value, we have to dump it. If you thought picking a QB with the 3rd was a absurd, you can damn sure bet your ass the value of that pick is not going to be wasted on a lesser position; that's not the "New England Way", remember?

It's not easy. You're right.

But, if highly touted prospects are available when we pick, which Im assuming there will be? Don't be surprised if a team will want to trade up with us? And we were in this same position last year when Dorsey fell on our laps.

The best thing that can happen imo is if Aaron Curry is available at #3. Gives us options. #1. You have whom experts are projecting as the best player coming out of the country Chiefs either take him, or you can sure bet there are other teams out there that would be interested in him that would probably want to trade up with us. And just think if we trade down, I assure were getting that 2nd rounder back..And that would be awesome because it would as if we got both Cassel and Vrabel for free.

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 04:51 AM
He can show you his two executive of the year awards...

We can go back and forth on this forever. The bottom line; WIN.

It's not easy. You're right.

But, if highly touted prospects are available when we pick, which Im assuming there will be? Don't be surprised if a team will want to trade up with us? And we were in this same position last year when Dorsey fell on our laps.

The best thing that can happen imo is if Aaron Curry is available at #3. Gives us options. #1. You have whom experts are projecting as the best player coming out of the country Chiefs either take him, or you can sure bet there are other teams out there that would be interested in him that would probably want to trade up with us. And just think if we trade down, I assure were getting that 2nd rounder back..And that would be awesome because it would as if we got both Cassel and Vrabel for free.

I'd be happy to get the second back.

Rausch
03-07-2009, 04:54 AM
It's not easy. You're right.

But, if highly touted prospects are available when we pick, which Im assuming there will be? Don't be surprised if a team will want to trade up with us? And we were in this same position last year when Dorsey fell on our laps.

The best thing that can happen imo is if Aaron Curry is available at #3. Gives us options. #1. You have whom experts are projecting as the best player coming out of the country Chiefs either take him, or you can sure bet there are other teams out there that would be interested in him that would probably want to trade up with us. And just think if we trade down, I assure were getting that 2nd rounder back..And that would be awesome because it would as if we got both Cassel and Vrabel for free.

And in the trade down/up value chart there is no mention of an overvalued player.

Fact is, even taking less in a trade down than the chart would dictate still benefits us.

Hell, if it came down to it I'd pull a Vikes style manuver and just not put in a pick until the guy we wanted was in danger of being taken...

milkman
03-07-2009, 05:11 AM
Hypocracy? It's ironic you would use that term in particular.

All you clowns have done is post on thread after thread after thread calling people out for being too scared to aquire a young QB to build a team around. Even though people told you time after time after time that it wasn't getting a QB it was not wanting to draft Sanchez.

I personally argued several times that you Sanchez ballwashers were not interested in "a QB" you were on a mission to attack anyone who didn't want Sanchez.

Now look. We have aquired a QB with our second rounder that has NFL experience, young, and has shown the potential to be a QB you can build a team around and kept our 1st rounder to add even more talent.

All you ball washers can do is run around pouting acting like evryone on this board dont see through your BS.

You really have no clue of what you really look like, do you? It's amazing that you would think that the people around you share the same stupidity that you do. You guys have been getting clowned on this issue for weeks, and now that it's over, you choose to clown yourselves. Pointing your fingers calling people hypocrites.

Your agenda will not be realized. Now it's time to sack up and move on.

Trying to argue the point that Sanchez has adequate experience somehow is so stupid, I'm laughing as I write this.ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Time after time, those of us who wanted to draft a young QB were told that the young QB we anted to draft wasn't ready.

Every time we talked about the need to draft a QB, we were told that we need to build an O-Line, we need to build a defense, that young QB wasn't ready, and we should wait at least a year before we drafted young QB.

That was when the young QB was Stafford.

As soon as it became clear that we probably wouldn't have a chance to draft Stafford and Sanchez declared, all of a sudden all we heard is from all the useless bastards who'd been arguing against Stafford was that Sanchez isn't ready, if Stafford was there we'd draft him, but we don't want Sanchez.

Now maybe you weren't one of the hypocrites that changed his tune, but the fact is, there were plenty of those useless fuckers.

Rausch
03-07-2009, 05:23 AM
As soon as it became clear that we probably wouldn't have a chance to draft Stafford and Sanchez declared, all of a sudden all we heard is from all the useless bastards who'd been arguing against Stafford was that Sanchez isn't ready, if Stafford was there we'd draft him, but we don't want Sanchez.

Now maybe you weren't one of the hypocrites that changed his tune, but the fact is, there were plenty of those useless ****ers.

1) Are you the jackass by the same name on the Mange?

2) Who did you want? Stafford? Sanchez?...

milkman
03-07-2009, 05:38 AM
Rivers is a year older with 3 years of experience as starter (2 on the bench), Cassel is a year younger with 1 year of experience as starter (3 on the bench)...

Cassel got to learn from the best organization and a great QB for three years...a WINNING organization...and got to experience a full year as starter for an NFL DYNASTY...

I like the value we acquired with a 2nd round pick.

Cassel and Vrabel for the #34 pick is outstanding value, even if you would have preferred Sanchez, as I did, over Cassel.

milkman
03-07-2009, 05:41 AM
1) Are you the jackass by the same name on the Mange?

2) Who did you want? Stafford? Sanchez?...

You fucked up on the quoting there, R.

CrazyHorse
03-07-2009, 06:21 AM
1) Are you the jackass by the same name on the Mange?

2) Who did you want? Stafford? Sanchez?...

I should start off by saying you have me misquoted above. Those statements were made by milkman.

Second, yes I am the same jackass. But I've been here much longer than there.

Finally, I have always preferred to draft Curry. But if I had to pick a QB I would have preferred to draft Stafford over Sanchez because of experience. I was not part of the croud that was flip flopping. The way things have played out is the best case senario for me. Trade for Cassel, and hopefully pick Curry at 3.

Hope this has answered your questions. Your post was some what screwed up. So I had to guess at what you were really looking for, or who you were really talking to.

ChiefRon
03-07-2009, 12:11 PM
He can show you his two executive of the year awards...

I'm waiting to see how much was him, and how much was Bilichick.

Darth CarlSatan
03-07-2009, 02:02 PM
I should start off by saying you have me misquoted above. Those statements were made by milkman.

Second, yes I am the same jackass. But I've been here much longer than there.

Finally, I have always preferred to draft Curry. But if I had to pick a QB I would have preferred to draft Stafford over Sanchez because of experience. I was not part of the croud that was flip flopping. The way things have played out is the best case senario for me. Trade for Cassel, and hopefully pick Curry at 3.

Hope this has answered your questions. Your post was some what screwed up. So I had to guess at what you were really looking for, or who you were really talking to.

So your trip was "let's keep keeping on with Thigpen, and use the 3rd overall to draft more defense" ala Herm Edwards...

Well it looks like there's something we can BOTH be thankful for in Matt Cassel:
You get to possibly watch Pioli piss away the 3rd overall on a defensive acquisition, and I get to watch Tyler "The Fucking Useless Bono Part II" Thigpen park his ass RIGHT where it belongs; on the motherfucking bench.

Win-Win! Yayyyy!!!! :bravo::rockon:PBJ


I'm waiting to see how much was him, and how much was Bilichick.

This.