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bdeg
03-13-2009, 08:52 AM
I posted this yesterday, and although it got positive responses, it only got a couple. Seeing as how it's buried at the bottom of the 2nd page of a thread on the 3rd page of the lounge already, I figured I'd post it here for some more comments and to show a plausible trade. I might work on completing the first round.

I'll post a quick mock w/trade:

1. Stafford
2. J. Smith
3. Cincinnati trades the #6, plus their 2nd rounder(38th ovr)(total value 2120 compared to 2200 for our #3) to select Monroe before Seattle pounces on him. Huge drop-off after the top tackles, as A. Smith and Oher both have red flags. And they are desperate for a starter NOW.
4. Sanchez
5. Curry
6. Brown (Chiefs)
7. A. Smith (OAK)
8. Crabtree
9. Maybin (Pack going 3-4)
10. Jenkins


Here's the rest
11. BUF - Orakpo
12. DEN - Raji
13. Skins - Oher
14. NO - Cushing
15. Texans - Maclin - would help free up AJ, they need a #2
16. SD - Maualuga unfortunately a perfect fit for them
17. Jets - DHB
18. CHI - Vontae Davis
19. TB - Freeman (Morris coached at K State, and they need a QB)
20. DET - Beatty Lions reach here ala Texans for the next blindside protector
21. Eagles- Pettigrew
22. MIN - Mack
23. NE - Wells
24. ATL - Percy Harvin
25. Miami - Matthews jr.
26. Ravens - Larry English
27. Colts - Peria Jerry
28. Eagles - Moreno
29. Giants - Connor Barwin Giants can afford to gamble on the player with the best upside in the draft. Sintim could be an option
30. Titans - DJ Moore
31. Cards - Unger
32. PIT - Alphonso Smith

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-13-2009, 08:58 AM
I'd be happier with this than any other scenario where we don't take a QB, and the trade up actually makes sense.

htismaqe
03-13-2009, 09:35 AM
My comments never got posted, I must have clicked the wrong button again.

I like this mock. What do you do with the #38 we get from Cinci?

SNR
03-13-2009, 09:37 AM
I would like this a lot. Don't think Cincy will do it, but I hope it happens.

OnTheWarpath58
03-13-2009, 09:41 AM
Best case scenario, IMO.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 09:45 AM
I'd like to get Mack. Maybe Connor Barwin or one of the fast receivers.

I'd like to draft a huge NT also whenever there is value. I think there will be better players than Brace available at that 2.

Coogs
03-13-2009, 10:28 AM
I like this draft trade. And under this scenario, I might go like this (using the updated Walters 4 rounder for rounds 2-4)...

#6 Crabtree
2nd Sintim OLB Virginia
3rd Ellerbe ILB Georgia
4th Urbik G Wisconsin

BigChiefFan
03-13-2009, 10:34 AM
I like Everette Brown, but I still think Raji is the pick. We absolutely need a pass rush, but next year has alot more options at DE and I don't see the top NT falling to us next year. We also may still get our pass-rush via trade.

DeezNutz
03-13-2009, 10:35 AM
A sensible trade.

Coogs
03-13-2009, 10:44 AM
Here could be your pass rush...

Strengths:
Excellent size...Long arms...Good athlete...Fantastic pass rusher and blitzer...Good strength...Tough...Physical...A powerful tackler...Looks comfortable in coverage...Does a nice job of taking on and shedding blockers...Decent range...Aggressive with a non-stop motor...Makes plays in pursuit...Solid instincts...Is intense and competitive...Offers some versatility...Productive...Has a lot of experience...A team leader.

Weaknesses:
Relatively average timed speed...Limited reps in coverage...Hips aren't real fluid...Tends to play too tall...Will struggle to turn and run in man...Does not use his hands well...Didn't make many plays on the boundaries...Possible conditioning issues...Minor durability concerns.

Notes:
Was a four-year starter in the ACC...Named 2nd Team All-ACC in 2008...Led the entire country in linebacker sacks as a senior...Played through a serious shoulder injury in 2006 that eventually required surgery...Started his final 49 games with the Cavs...Could project outside or inside...Best fit at the next level will likely come on the strongside in a 4-3 scheme or outside in a 3-4...Big, versatile 'backer who makes a ton of impact plays...Excellent pro prospect who could end up being a stud in the NFL like Ahmad Brooks was supposed to be.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 10:46 AM
Is that Sintim? Just not quick enough for me. I'd much rather gamble on Barwin.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 10:47 AM
What a combo Raji and Barwin could be.

htismaqe
03-13-2009, 10:53 AM
I like this draft trade. And under this scenario, I might go like this (using the updated Walters 4 rounder for rounds 2-4)...

#6 Crabtree
2nd Sintim OLB Virginia
3rd Ellerbe ILB Georgia
4th Urbik G Wisconsin

Way to ruin a perfectly good trade scenario by taking Crabtree. :)

DaKCMan AP
03-13-2009, 10:56 AM
I like Everette Brown, but I still think Raji is the pick. We absolutely need a pass rush, but next year has alot more options at DE and I don't see the top NT falling to us next year. We also may still get our pass-rush via trade.

I hope you realize that in a 3-4 the pass rush is going to come more from the OLB position than at DE.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2009, 11:05 AM
In a podcast from earlier this week Kiper was saying that Brown and English were slipping in their rankings. I'm not sure why though.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 11:07 AM
In a podcast from earlier this week Kiper was saying that Brown and English were slipping in their rankings. I'm not sure why though.

Their agents must not have paid Kiper for the "draft position protection" he offered.

SNR
03-13-2009, 11:34 AM
A sensible trade.But is it a sensible trade for sensible Chiefs fans?

bdeg
03-13-2009, 11:37 AM
If you want anyone but Curry, yes.

DeezNutz
03-13-2009, 11:44 AM
But is it a sensible trade for sensible Chiefs fans?

I refuse to peer into the darkness of that soul...

Coogs
03-13-2009, 11:49 AM
Is that Sintim?

Yes

Coogs
03-13-2009, 11:50 AM
Way to ruin a perfectly good trade scenario by taking Crabtree. :)


I know. :sulk:

I really think that Crabtree could open up our offense. Both the run and the pass. But that is just me.

And I am not sure if he is my first choice yet either. But under this scenario, probably so.

DeezNutz
03-13-2009, 12:05 PM
I know. :sulk:

I really think that Crabtree could open up our offense. Both the run and the pass. But that is just me.

And I am not sure if he is my first choice yet either. But under this scenario, probably so.

A deep threat would help open things up, dude.

Our best options now are guys that work underneath, go across the middle, etc. Adding a third such option would only serve to clog.

B_Ambuehl
03-13-2009, 12:48 PM
Post that on a Bengals forum and see what they say. I don't think Cincy would do it because they need a RT not a left tackle. Their current starting left tackle Levi Jones is only 29. Why would they give up a 2nd rounder when they have either Oher or Smith still on board, either of who can be a dominating RT type.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 12:53 PM
Levi Jones has had some trouble in pass pro, I remember he got himself benched a couple years ago against JA. He also missed 6 games last year. You say only 29, I say practically 30 and already slowing down.

And Oher is a LT.

If not Cincy, it could be Jacksonville.

Mr. Krab
03-13-2009, 01:10 PM
I think trading down would be good, maybe even trading down a couple of times. It seems to me there is more value in the middle of round one than there is at the top.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 01:12 PM
I disagree with that. There isn't great value at the very top, but it looks worse than it is because we don't need an OT or QB anymore. There is a much larger talent drop-off around 15.

htismaqe
03-13-2009, 01:17 PM
I disagree with that. There isn't great value at the very top, but it looks worse than it is because we don't need an OT or QB anymore. There is a much larger talent drop-off around 15.

I think both QB's have some question marks.

But yes, it's true that our draft in particular is complicated by our needs not lining up with the (meager) talent.

Reaper16
03-13-2009, 01:35 PM
15. Texans - Maclin - would help free up AJ, they need a #2

Jesus... that offense would be sweet to watch.

Tribal Warfare
03-13-2009, 01:51 PM
IMO, I believe Pioli will try his hardest to trade to the bottom half of the round and " KC could be picking #3 or move down to #23" is indicative of that.

I believe they're eyeing Barwin or English if a full out trade scenario occurs.

aturnis
03-13-2009, 02:02 PM
I see you worked it in such a way that you got the guy you've been Jonesin' for. That said...at this spot, I still don't know if I like Brown.

htismaqe
03-13-2009, 02:05 PM
I see you worked it in such a way that you got the guy you've been Jonesin' for. That said...at this spot, I still don't know if I like Brown.

Brown is preferable to the alternatives, especially considering we'd be getting a 2nd round pick along with him.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 02:09 PM
IMO, I believe Pioli will try his hardest to trade to the bottom half of the round and " KC could be picking #3 or move down to #23" is indicative of that.

I believe they're eyeing Barwin or English if a full out trade scenario occurs.

I'd think Mack or Unger.

I honestly expect the Chiefs to get at least three starting offensive lineman in this draft. As much as the defense sucks, it can wait until next year to fix.

I just cannot envision them sending out Cassel behind Niswanger, Sackintosh and Jones.

That would just be a waste of a 2nd rounder because Cassel wouldn't survive out there.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 02:11 PM
I'd think Mack or Unger.

I honestly expect the Chiefs to get at least three starting offensive lineman in this draft. As much as the defense sucks, it can wait until next year to fix.

I just cannot envision them sending out Cassel behind Niswanger, Sackintosh and Jones.

That would just be a waste of a 2nd rounder because Cassel wouldn't survive out there.

Those positions are a lot easier to fill through FA and later picks than an impact pass rusher.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 02:34 PM
Those positions are a lot easier to fill through FA and later picks than an impact pass rusher.

Really?

So you're advocating that the Chiefs pass on what could be the best offensive lineman draft in maybe decades to draft an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft?

Where's Mario Williams? Where's Julius Peppers? Where's Bruce Smith? Where's Derrick Thomas? Where's Neil Smith?

Oh, there ISN'T one in 2009.

But you know what there is? GREAT centers. GREAT left tackles. And a very good crop of guards.

And furthermore, WHERE are these "free agent" lineman you speak of? The best center signed with the Rams. The free-agency class of lineman was extremely weak and all that's left now are bunch of scrubs at best.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2009, 02:44 PM
Really?

So you're advocating that the Chiefs pass on what could be the best offensive lineman draft in maybe decades to draft an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft?

Where's Mario Williams? Where's Julius Peppers? Where's Bruce Smith? Where's Derrick Thomas? Where's Neil Smith?

Oh, there ISN'T one in 2009.

But you know what there is? GREAT centers. GREAT left tackles. And a very good crop of guards.

And furthermore, WHERE are these "free agent" lineman you speak of? The best center signed with the Rams. The free-agency class of lineman was extremely weak and all that's left now are bunch of scrubs at best.

You have no idea whether or not great pass rushers will emerge by this time next year. It could be Selvie, or Hardy or the kid from TCU if they have monster seasons.

All of a sudden, you want to take a LT this year?

bdeg
03-13-2009, 02:47 PM
Really?

So you're advocating that the Chiefs pass on what could be the best offensive lineman draft in maybe decades to draft an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft?

Where's Mario Williams? Where's Julius Peppers? Where's Bruce Smith? Where's Derrick Thomas? Where's Neil Smith?

Oh, there ISN'T one in 2009.

But you know what there is? GREAT centers. GREAT left tackles. And a very good crop of guards.

And furthermore, WHERE are these "free agent" lineman you speak of? The best center signed with the Rams. The free-agency class of lineman was extremely weak and all that's left now are bunch of scrubs at best.

A LT would be a waste of a pick, I'm not going to rehash that again. I'd love to get a center and said we should take Mack if we can get a 2nd and he's there.

You don't know Brown, Barwin, or anyone else won't be great. What percentage of current elite pass-rushers were uniformly regarded as top-5 talent coming out(I say uniformly because I've seen Brown going #1 in mocks)? Maybe 1 out of every 3 or 4?

and here's one http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=204111

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 03:02 PM
You have no idea whether or not great pass rushers will emerge by this time next year. It could be Selvie, or Hardy or the kid from TCU if they have monster seasons.

When you have a roster as talent depleted as the Chiefs, you can't take chances on guys like Selvie or Hardy becoming a dominant pass rusher. It's not like the Chiefs are ONE player away from competing and neither of those guys you mentioned appear to be a dominant, game changing player.

If they were, they'd be rated higher.

All of a sudden, you want to take a LT this year?

No. I made the comment based on his trade back to #23 overall, not #3.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2009, 03:05 PM
When you have a roster as talent depleted as the Chiefs, you can't take chances on guys like Selvie or Hardy becoming a dominant pass rusher. It's not like the Chiefs are ONE player away from competing and neither of those guys you mentioned appear to be a dominant, game changing player.

If they were, they'd be rated higher.

.

Like the way Oher, Maluaga and Johnson were rated as the top guys this time last year?

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 03:06 PM
A LT would be a waste of a pick, I'm not going to rehash that again. I'd love to get a center and said we should take Mack if we can get a 2nd and he's there.

Again, you should read a little more carefully. I said Mack at #23 in your trade back scenario, not a LT at #3.

You don't know Brown, Barwin, or anyone else won't be great. What percentage of current elite pass-rushers were uniformly regarded as top-5 talent coming out(I say uniformly because I've seen Brown going #1 in mocks)? Maybe 1 out of every 3 or 4?

You need to do more research. Why don't you go ahead and tell who the last, immediate impact pass rusher was that wasn't drafted in the first round.

Your "numbers" are extremely inaccurate.


and here's one http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=204111

Great. A guy who couldn't cut it with a worse offense than the Chiefs. That really sounds like a long-term upgrade.

:rolleyes:

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 03:07 PM
Like the way Oher, Maluaga and Johnson were rated as the top guys this time last year?

Are stating that none of these players will be first rounders or that there was another year of college evaluation needed?

One more thing: Great pass rushers don't grow on trees and they don't often go unnoticed by the NFL. If there were any great pass rusher that they know of, we'd know of them.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 03:49 PM
Again, you should read a little more carefully. I said Mack at #23 in your trade back scenario, not a LT at #3.



You need to do more research. Why don't you go ahead and tell who the last, immediate impact pass rusher was that wasn't drafted in the first round.

Your "numbers" are extremely inaccurate.




Great. A guy who couldn't cut it with a worse offense than the Chiefs. That really sounds like a long-term upgrade.

:rolleyes:

Who said they had to be "immediate impact"? That'd be nice, but we won't be going to the playoffs next year. Although to meet your request, Elvis Dumervil was a 4th rounder who had a pretty immediate impact.

I never said my "numbers" were accurate, they were obviously very loose estimates. I didn't suggest a trade-back scenario to 23 and have no idea what you're talking about

bdeg
03-13-2009, 03:50 PM
I believe Tauscher or Barnes would be fine on the right side. F*** it bring them both in, let them compete with Taylor and Richardson we should get one decent player out of that, if not try again next year.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 04:19 PM
Who said they had to be "immediate impact"? That'd be nice, but we won't be going to the playoffs next year. Although to meet your request, Elvis Dumervil was a 4th rounder who had a pretty immediate impact.

I never said my "numbers" were accurate, they were obviously very loose estimates. I didn't suggest a trade-back scenario to 23 and have no idea what you're talking about

You need to start over and re-read the thread.

Secondly, teams expect their first and second rounder to make an immediate impact. Period.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 04:27 PM
IMO, I believe Pioli will try his hardest to trade to the bottom half of the round and " KC could be picking #3 or move down to #23" is indicative of that.

You are referring to this? I don't know where he got that either.

This discussion is irrelevant. You said "an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft." You didn't say immediate impact player. I think Barwin will be an impact player, but not next year. I think Brown will be an impact player and win DROY. If you want to take any player I'd put $20 on Brown winning the award instead of your player of choice with the exception of Curry. I think his impact will be over-rated because he will get a lot of tackles.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 04:48 PM
You are referring to this? I don't know where he got that either.

You're talking in circles. You made a statement about my comments of taking Mack or Unger after trading down to the #23 spot. Then, you start going off about getting a pass rusher. You're confusing yourself and not making any sense.

This discussion is irrelevant.

Pretty much.

You said "an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft."

That we know of, yes. Otherwise, he'd be rated in the top 3, like Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Chris Long, Javon Kearse, etc.


You didn't say immediate impact player. I think Barwin will be an impact player, but not next year.

Then you don't understand the definition of impact. If you're selecting a guy in the first or second round, he'd better have an immediate impact or you've just fucked yourself.

Impact doesn't mean "developmental".

I think Brown will be an impact player and win DROY. If you want to take any player I'd put $20 on Brown winning the award instead of your player of choice with the exception of Curry. I think his impact will be over-rated because he will get a lot of tackles.

That's your opinion.

Your opinion doesn't make him worthy of the #3 overall spot in my opinion.

bdeg
03-13-2009, 04:52 PM
That was the worst post ever Dane. I wish I had time to type a full reply but I have to go. Can we get a second opinion here? Who's talking in circles? I'll get back to this tomorrow or maybe later tonight.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 09:36 PM
I believe Tauscher or Barnes would be fine on the right side. F*** it bring them both in, let them compete with Taylor and Richardson we should get one decent player out of that, if not try again next year.

I'm sorry but this is fucking stupid.

Tauscher's old, Barnes completely and utterly sucks (let alone the fact he's NEVER played on the right side in the NFL), Taylor is a left tackle, not a right tackle and Richardson was a 6th round pick with motivational issues.

The Chiefs NEED to draft a right tackle and if they can't, they need to wait until a suitable replacement becomes available after the next wave of free agency or cuts in August happen.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 09:37 PM
That was the worst post ever Dane.

You appear to be a football idiot.

I'm waiting for you to prove otherwise.

Chiefnj2
03-13-2009, 09:52 PM
Are stating that none of these players will be first rounders or that there was another year of college evaluation needed?

One more thing: Great pass rushers don't grow on trees and they don't often go unnoticed by the NFL. If there were any great pass rusher that they know of, we'd know of them.


I pointed out several guys that were rated high (top 5) last year at this time who are now all out of the top 10 and one likely a 2nd rounder to show that you can't tell where someone will rank by the end of next year.

DaneMcCloud
03-13-2009, 09:55 PM
I pointed out several guys that were rated high (top 5) last year at this time who are now all out of the top 10 and one likely a 2nd rounder to show that you can't tell where someone will rank by the end of next year.

What I'm saying is that at this time, there are no game changing, monster defensive ends that we know of at this time.

Anything's possible. But if you THINK a guy is a monster, you take him high and you rate him high.

At this time, there's no such guy.

bsp4444
03-13-2009, 10:30 PM
Are stating that none of these players will be first rounders or that there was another year of college evaluation needed?

One more thing: Great pass rushers don't grow on trees and they don't often go unnoticed by the NFL. If there were any great pass rusher that they know of, we'd know of them.

Like Jared Allen?

Reaper16
03-13-2009, 11:00 PM
Like Jared Allen?
He said "that they know of." No one had any clue that Jared Allen would turn out as good as he did on the field.

Mecca
03-13-2009, 11:09 PM
Occasionally pass rushers do go later and generally they are 1 of a few things, a freak from a small school, a guy with serious off the field problems, a guy who frankly shocks everyone, or a guy who entered the draft before he really should of but still develops.

DeezNutz
03-13-2009, 11:11 PM
Occasionally pass rushers do go later and generally they are 1 of a few things, a freak from a small school, a guy with serious off the field problems, a guy who frankly shocks everyone, or a guy who entered the draft before he really should of but still develops.

Is there a possibility that you didn't cover there, dude? LMAO

You really went out on a limb...

Mecca
03-13-2009, 11:13 PM
Is there a possibility that you didn't cover there, dude? LMAO

You really went out on a limb...

LOL well basically it means that the odds of it happening aren't good, unless you want to point out to me guys who fit that role this year.

I liked Justin Tuck when he was in the draft so I don't think it's shocking he developed into a great player, he just came out a year early so he cost himself about a round.

DeezNutz
03-13-2009, 11:14 PM
LOL well basically it means that the odds of it happening aren't good, unless you want to point out to me guys who fit that role this year.

I liked Justin Tuck when he was in the draft so I don't think it's shocking he developed into a great player, he just came out a year early so he cost himself about a round.

Just flipping you shit.

I agree that it's very rare, but we need a little bit of luck around here...

Mecca
03-13-2009, 11:21 PM
Start looking at freaks that went to small schools or guys that entered to early, it's not as easy as it use to be now small school guys are going higher..

Going to Troy got Umenyiora taken in the 2nd round and half the people watching going "who" it got DaMarcus Ware taken in the top 15...so it becomes even harder.

bdeg
03-14-2009, 09:47 AM
You're talking in circles. You made a statement about my comments of taking Mack or Unger after trading down to the #23 spot. Then, you start going off about getting a pass rusher. You're confusing yourself and not making any sense.

Pretty much.

That we know of, yes. Otherwise, he'd be rated in the top 3, like Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Chris Long, Javon Kearse, etc.


Then you don't understand the definition of impact. If you're selecting a guy in the first or second round, he'd better have an immediate impact or you've just ****ed yourself.

Impact doesn't mean "developmental".


That's your opinion.

Your opinion doesn't make him worthy of the #3 overall spot in my opinion.
I wasn't confusing myself. I was responding to more than one of your comments in the same post, like I'm about to do here.





"an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft."

...

"That we know of, yes. Otherwise, he'd be rated in the top 3, like Mario Williams, Julius Peppers, Chris Long, Javon Kearse, etc."
You need to do more research. Why don't you go ahead and tell who the last, immediate impact pass rusher was that wasn't drafted in the first round.

...

You need to do more research. Why don't you go ahead and tell who the last, immediate impact pass rusher was that wasn't drafted in the first round.
Your "numbers" are extremely inaccurate.

:rolleyes:
60% of the top 5 sack-getters last season were picked in the third round or later. Sound fluky? 50% of the top 10 also, that's as far as I'm going. If I were to look at the percentage of top sackers taken in the top 3 or 5 your argument would look even more silly.
You don't know that no team has rated one of the pass rushers in the top 3. Are you assuming all teams go by mock drafters boards?


"impact doesn't mean developmental" Barwin is a perfect example. He could be the best player to come out of this draft, but probably won't play a ton next year. He posted better combine #s than any DL or LB, but has only played DE for a year.


As for Tauscher, obviously he would only be a stopgap in the interest of keeping Cassell healthy, and with our cap space I don't think his signing would prevent us from upgrading the position if there was an opportunity.

"At this time, there's no such guy."
In your opinion. We don't know what teams are thinking.

bdeg
03-14-2009, 10:00 AM
Occasionally pass rushers do go later and generally they are 1 of a few things, a freak from a small school, a guy with serious off the field problems, a guy who frankly shocks everyone, or a guy who entered the draft before he really should of but still develops.

Speaking of players coming out early who could still develop, most don't realize Brown was a Jr.

melbar
03-14-2009, 12:36 PM
Nice draft. totally plausable. Brown would be nice, but what happened to Raji? You've made a lot of noise about how NT is the most important position in the 3-4 (rightly so) just wondering why the change in thought? Are you thinking Brace may be available in the 2nd, or do you just like him that much more as a prospect?

bdeg
03-14-2009, 12:39 PM
NT is very important, but it wasn't me clamoring for Raji. I think he's a very good player, I'm just really impressed by Brown.

melbar
03-14-2009, 01:08 PM
NT is very important, but it wasn't me clamoring for Raji. I think he's a very good player, I'm just really impressed by Brown.

Sorry, actually asking Mecca... but thats cool.

bdeg
03-14-2009, 01:20 PM
"Nice draft. totally plausable. Brown would be nice, but what happened to Raji? "..."just wondering why the change in thought?"

You realize it's my draft right? Mecca hasn't said a word about Brown in this thread.

bdeg
03-14-2009, 02:20 PM
You appear to be a football idiot.

I'm waiting for you to prove otherwise.

:cuss: I'd love to hear you refute post 58, oh great football genius.:bravo:

aturnis
03-15-2009, 01:04 AM
:cuss: I'd love to hear you refute post 58, oh great football genius.:bravo:

The oldest guy on that list is Bertram Berry, going on his 12 season. So take the last 11 drafts:

Total players taken in draft since 1998: 2789 (100%)

Total players taken in first two rounds since 1998: 703 (25%) (NE forfeited a pick)

Total player taken in 3rd or later since 1998: 2086 (75%)

Total players taken "undrafted" since 1998: unknown (I'm not digging)


3rd round or later is a very large group. 3X the size of the top 2 round guys.

I'll let you take a guess at how many of those player were DE's. Once you decide, do the math and let us all know what the chances of a player taken in the top 2 rounds chances are of becoming a top 10 DE. Then let us know what kind of chance the 3rd round or later guys have.

To be more accurate, you could find out where the top 10 sack leaders of the last 10-12 yrs. were drafted. Then let us know the chances.

I'm guessing the Chances of a guy taken early, are much much higher than the guy taken late. Hence the importance of the early picks.

bdeg
03-15-2009, 04:26 AM
I'm guessing you're right. But the statement I took issue with was that there aren't any impact pass rushers in this draft. There may very well be an impact pass rusher in this draft, and my point was to prove that top pass rushers don't have to be drafted in the top 5.

And I don't know where you're getting your #'s(postseason?), but Berry only had 5 reg season sacks.

Still waiting Dane, you were on yesterday. If you're going to call me an idiot, you'd better to be able to discount at least one thing I've said or STFU. 4321

Tribal Warfare
03-15-2009, 04:49 PM
You are referring to this? I don't know where he got that either.

This discussion is irrelevant. You said "an "impact pass rusher" that doesn't exist in the 2009 draft." You didn't say immediate impact player. I think Barwin will be an impact player, but not next year.

Pioli said they are planning to draft the right players, and Barwin fits the mold what Pioli values in a player which is a smart,strong,fast only thing that is left out is his size. Other than that he looks like a player he could be targeting.

bdeg
03-15-2009, 04:53 PM
Hell ya, I'd love to get Barwin.

As for that quote, I was wondering where you got the idea of trading to 23