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View Full Version : *sigh* Stafford/Sanchez scouting reports up


Count Zarth
03-15-2009, 09:34 AM
Still kind of disappointed we won't get a shot at either. I especially look at Stafford's ridiculous number of games played and think that's a plus.

<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#1f6884"><td colspan="2" style="" http:="" www.draftcountdown.com="" images="" bluegradient.gif="" target="_blank">http://www.draftcountdown.com/images/bluegradient.gif) repeat-y scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">Matthew Stafford</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" align="right">Height: 6-2<sup>1/4</sup> | Weight: 225 | 40-Time: 4.81 </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> http://www.draftcountdown.com/playerphotos/qb/matthewstafford.jpg
Official Bio (http://www.georgiadogs.com/ViewArticle.dbml?SPSID=40675&SPID=3571&DB_OEM_ID=8800&ATCLID=307755&Q_SEASON=2008)

http://www.draftcountdown.com/images/stars/five.gif </td> <td valign="top"> Strengths:
Rare arm strength and can make all of the throws...Has a quick release...Good bulk and a solid build...Above average athleticism...Can throw on the run...Will buy time in the pocket and make plays with his feet...Has the ability to fit throws into tight spaces...Strong and tough...Stands tall in the face of pressure...Throws a nice deep ball...Intense, competitive and loves the game...Durable and never missed a start in college...Has a lot of experience against top competition...Played in a pro style offense...Understands how to read coverages and go through his progressions...Hard worker...Team leader and captain ... Improved every year and still has a lot of upside.

Weaknesses:
Doesn't have the ideal height you look for...Has too much confidence in his arm at times and will force some throws...Takes unnecessary risks...Minor accuracy issues and will make his targets adjust...Gets careless with his technique and fundamentals...Can improve his footwork...Tends to put too much mustard on short throws...A little inconsistent ... Classic gunslinger who will throw some interceptions.

Notes:
A three-year starter in the SEC who compiled a 27-7 record for the Bulldogs...First name is actually "John"...Attended the same Texas high school as former Lions great Bobby Layne and led them to their first state title since 1957...Was considered to be one of the top recruits in the entire country coming out of high school...Was named MVP of the Chick-Fil-A Bowl as a true freshman and the Capital One Bowl as a junior...Earned numerous 2nd Team All-SEC honors in '08...Has everything you look for in a quarterback prospect, including excellent physical tools and top-notch intangibles...Potential franchise signal caller and is the type of player you can build your team around. <hr>
<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="75%"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="12" style="" http:="" www.draftcountdown.com="" images="" bluegradient.gif="" target="_blank">
</td></tr> <tr style="font-weight: bold;" align="right"> <td align="center">GP</td> <td align="center">Comp</td> <td align="center">Att</td> <td align="center">Yds</td> <td align="center">Comp %</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">INT</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">13</td> <td align="center">135</td> <td align="center">256</td> <td align="center">1,749</td> <td align="center">52.7%</td> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">13</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">13</td> <td align="center">194</td> <td align="center">348</td> <td align="center">2,523</td> <td align="center">55.7%</td> <td align="center">19</td> <td align="center">10</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">13</td> <td align="center">235</td> <td align="center">383</td> <td align="center">3,459</td> <td align="center">61.4%</td> <td align="center">25</td> <td align="center">10</td> </tr> <tr style="font-weight: bold;" align="right"> <td align="center">39</td> <td align="center">564</td> <td align="center">987</td> <td align="center">7,731</td> <td align="center">57.1%</td> <td align="center">51</td> <td align="center">33</td></tr></tbody></table>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

<table border="0" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="0" width="100%"><tbody><tr bgcolor="#1f6884"><td colspan="2" style="" http:="" www.draftcountdown.com="" images="" bluegradient.gif="" target="_blank">http://www.draftcountdown.com/images/bluegradient.gif) repeat-y scroll 0% 0%; -moz-background-clip: -moz-initial; -moz-background-origin: -moz-initial; -moz-background-inline-policy: -moz-initial;">Mark Sanchez</td> </tr> <tr> <td colspan="2" align="right">Height: 6-2<sup>1/8</sup> | Weight: 227 | 40-Time: 4.87 </td> </tr> <tr> <td align="center" valign="top"> http://www.draftcountdown.com/playerphotos/qb/marksanchez.jpg
Official Bio (http://usctrojans.cstv.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/sanchez_mark00.html)

http://www.draftcountdown.com/images/stars/four.gif </td> <td valign="top"> Strengths:
Nice bulk and a solid frame...Good athlete...Arm strength is more than adequate and can make all the throws...Good mechanics and delivery with a quick release...Terrific accuracy...Really anticipates well and displays nice touch and timing...Will buy time in the pocket and make plays with his feet...Can throw on the run...Good ball skills...Intelligent with a high football IQ...Recognizes blitzes, can read coverages and go through his progressions...Product of a pro style offense...Is tough, fiery and super competitive...Truly loves the game...Excellent work ethic...A team leader and field general...Media savvy...Still has upside.

Weaknesses:
Limited starting experience...Doesn't have the ideal height that you look for...Durability is a concern...Does not always throw a tight spiral...Has some trouble with the deep ball...Can get flustered by a strong pass rush...Makes some bad decisions...Won't run away from people...Had an issue off-the-field...Was surrounded by a lot of talent.

Notes:
Was the consensus #1 quarterback recruit in the country coming out of high school...As a prep he was mentored by noted quarterback guru Bob Johnson...Redshirted in 2005...Battled for the starting job after Matt Leinart graduated but lost out to John David Booty and served as a backup the next two years...Finally took over the starting job as a redshirt junior in 2008...Was arrested and suspended in 2006 after being accused of sexually assaulting a female student but no charges were filed due to "a lack of sufficient evidence beyond a reasonable doubt"...Broke his thumb in 2007...Dislocated his kneecap prior to the 2008 season...Ended his Trojan career on a high note by completing 28 of 35 attempts (80%) for 413 yards and 4 touchdowns in the Rose Bowl against Penn St...Only started 16 college games...With another year of development he might have been in contention to be the #1 overall pick in the 2010 NFL Draft...More talented than Matt Leinart but not quite in Carson Palmer's class...Lack of experience is a huge concern and he may require some development and patience...Has the physical tools and intangibles to be a franchise signal caller in the NFL. <hr>
<table align="center" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1" width="75%"> <tbody><tr><td colspan="12" style="" http:="" www.draftcountdown.com="" images="" bluegradient.gif="" target="_blank">
</td></tr> <tr style="font-weight: bold;" align="right"> <td align="center">GP</td> <td align="center">Comp</td> <td align="center">Att</td> <td align="center">Yds</td> <td align="center">Comp %</td> <td align="center">TD</td> <td align="center">INT</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">RS</td> <td align="center">-</td> <td align="center">-</td> <td align="center">-</td> <td align="center">-</td> <td align="center">-</td> <td align="center">-</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">6</td> <td align="center">3</td> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">63</td> <td align="center">42.9%</td> <td align="center">0</td> <td align="center">1</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">8</td> <td align="center">69</td> <td align="center">114</td> <td align="center">695</td> <td align="center">60.5%</td> <td align="center">7</td> <td align="center">5</td> </tr> <tr align="right"> <td align="center">13</td> <td align="center">241</td> <td align="center">366</td> <td align="center">3,207</td> <td align="center">65.8%</td> <td align="center">34</td> <td align="center">10</td> </tr> <tr style="font-weight: bold;" align="right"> <td align="center">27</td> <td align="center">313</td> <td align="center">487</td> <td align="center">3,965</td> <td align="center">64.3%</td> <td align="center">41</td> <td align="center">16</td> </tr> </tbody></table>
</td></tr></tbody></table>

the Talking Can
03-15-2009, 09:39 AM
it is going to be a cruel irony when stafford is there at #3 and we trade down....fuck me....

MIAdragon
03-15-2009, 09:56 AM
Is it totally out of the question that we pick one of these guys if they are there at #3?

Lex Luthor
03-15-2009, 10:05 AM
Is it totally out of the question that we pick one of these guys if they are there at #3?
Uh, yes.

Cassel is the quarterback. You guys need to get over it.

You might also want to remember that for every draft with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers at the top, there's a draft with Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler. For every Payton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf. All of this whining about Stafford and Sanchez is pointless.

Marco Polo
03-15-2009, 10:07 AM
Uh, yes.

Cassel is the the quarterback. You guys need to get over it.

You might also want to remember that for every draft with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers at the top, there's a draft with Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler. For every Payton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf.

But, but, but, these guys are different!

milkman
03-15-2009, 10:33 AM
Uh, yes.

Cassel is the quarterback. You guys need to get over it.

You might also want to remember that for every draft with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers at the top, there's a draft with Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler. For every Payton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf. All of this whining about Stafford and Sanchez is pointless.

And you guys might want to remember for every Scott Mitchell and Steve Bono that gets traded or signed after some good games in a sysytem with talented weapons, there's a.................uh..........yeah...........give me time..........I'm sure there's someone..............

orange
03-15-2009, 11:04 AM
Sanchez:

Does not always throw a tight spiral...Has some trouble with the deep ball...

He's a Wobble-Launcher! Sign him up.

Mr. Krab
03-15-2009, 11:40 AM
Uh, yes.

Cassel is the quarterback. You guys need to get over it.

You might also want to remember that for every draft with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers at the top, there's a draft with Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler. For every Payton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf. All of this whining about Stafford and Sanchez is pointless.
It's not out of the question until we sign Cassel to a long term contract.

DrRyan
03-15-2009, 12:13 PM
And you guys might want to remember for every Scott Mitchell and Steve Bono that gets traded or signed after some good games in a sysytem with talented weapons, there's a.................uh..........yeah...........give me time..........I'm sure there's someone..............

Joe Montana. Favre last season, but didn't work as he did not appear to have much left in the tank. I am sure there are more if you care to look deeper. Let's not compare Cassel to either of those two. How about letting him get a season or two of starts here in KC before declaring it an awful trade. None of you know that Sanchez or Stafford will be great NFL QBs. No one does.

ChiefRon
03-15-2009, 12:22 PM
Joe Montana. Favre last season, but didn't work as he did not appear to have much left in the tank. I am sure there are more if you care to look deeper. Let's not compare Cassel to either of those two. How about letting him get a season or two of starts here in KC before declaring it an awful trade. None of you know that Sanchez or Stafford will be great NFL QBs. No one does.

Just like nobody knows if Cassel is not Scott Mitchell 2.0, a product of talent all around him and the system of get it to playmakers fast and let them make the play for you.

We can argue this back and forth endlessly.

DrRyan
03-15-2009, 12:24 PM
You are correct Ron, but....how about letting him prove either he can or cannot on the field? Pioli knows better than you, Mecca, Hamas, Milkman, etc. I am not arguing the point, I am simply saying, declaring the trade a failure(which more than a few here have) before he even takes a snap in a Chiefs uniform is ridiculous.

ChiefRon
03-15-2009, 12:31 PM
You are correct Ron, but....how about letting him prove either he can or cannot on the field? Pioli knows better than you, Mecca, Hamas, Milkman, etc. I am not arguing the point, I am simply saying, declaring the trade a failure(which more than a few here have) before he even takes a snap in a Chiefs uniform is ridiculous.

I'm not calling it a failure....yet.

I'm also in the "wait and see".

But, if we pass one these potential franchise QB prospects, and one or both of them kick ass while our career backup does "ok" or "terrible", it will be an epic mistake.

Professionals "should" know better than us.

But I was already skeptical if Pioli's track record was based on his work, or mostly on Belichick's talent. I hope I'm wrong.

We're going to find out.

Blick
03-15-2009, 12:48 PM
And you guys might want to remember for every Scott Mitchell and Steve Bono that gets traded or signed after some good games in a sysytem with talented weapons, there's a.................uh..........yeah...........give me time..........I'm sure there's someone..............

Bowe and Gonzalez aren't talented weapons?

milkman
03-15-2009, 03:17 PM
Bowe and Gonzalez aren't talented weapons?

When Mitchell went to Detroit, he had a couple of pretty talented receivers, not to mention Barry Sanders, to work with.

But you missed the point entirely.

The point is that there aren't any successes you can point to in this type of scenario, whereas you can point to numerous successful draft picks, even as you are pointing to failures.

milkman
03-15-2009, 03:20 PM
Joe Montana. Favre last season, but didn't work as he did not appear to have much left in the tank. I am sure there are more if you care to look deeper. Let's not compare Cassel to either of those two. How about letting him get a season or two of starts here in KC before declaring it an awful trade. None of you know that Sanchez or Stafford will be great NFL QBs. No one does.

I wouldn't call Favre a success, but neither he nor Montana are the kind of QB I am discussing.

I am discussing QBs who had some success when playing for injured starters who then moved on to start for other teams.

And I am not saying that Cassel is going to fail, nor am I claimng in this thread that Sanchez or Stafford are going succeed.

I am just pointing out the flaw in the argument.

Mecca
03-15-2009, 03:29 PM
We can argue about this back and forth but I'll say this Matt Cassel is in no way a sure thing or safer than the guys in the draft while being older than they are...

If this move doesn't work out this is the kind of thing people will look back on and go "that really fucked us"

Blick
03-15-2009, 03:43 PM
The point is that there aren't any successes you can point to in this type of scenario, whereas you can point to numerous successful draft picks, even as you are pointing to failures.

I get your point. However, there haven't been many trades like this.

Cassel isn't Bono or Mitchell. We've seen what he can do for a full season.

vailpass
03-15-2009, 03:43 PM
We can argue about this back and forth but I'll say this Matt Cassel is in no way a sure thing or safer than the guys in the draft while being older than they are...

If this move doesn't work out this is the kind of thing people will look back on and go "that really fucked us"

The Sam Bowie curse.

philfree
03-15-2009, 03:49 PM
We can argue about this back and forth but I'll say this Matt Cassel is in no way a sure thing or safer than the guys in the draft while being older than they are...

If this move doesn't work out this is the kind of thing people will look back on and go "that really ****ed us"


You mean like reaching for a QB in the draft that doesn't work out?


PhilFree:arrow:

Blick
03-15-2009, 04:00 PM
Matt Cassel is in no way safer than the guys in the draft

Really?

DeezNutz
03-15-2009, 04:08 PM
There will never be a QB prospect that KC fans won't call a "reach."

Mecca
03-15-2009, 04:14 PM
Really?

You think a guy who has started 1 year since high school, was nearly cut and just spent his season throwing to 1 of the best WR's of all time and probably the best slot guy in the league isn't risky at all?

I still don't see what people see in Matt Cassel that excites them.

Mecca
03-15-2009, 04:15 PM
There will never be a QB prospect that KC fans won't call a "reach."

All QB's in the draft are reaches and to risky meanwhile trading for a guy is the right move...Carl conditioning man.

Blick
03-15-2009, 04:35 PM
You think a guy who has started 1 year since high school, was nearly cut and just spent his season throwing to 1 of the best WR's of all time and probably the best slot guy in the league isn't risky at all?

I still don't see what people see in Matt Cassel that excites them.

I'm not super excited and I'm not saying that he isn't a risk. I'm saying he's safer than a draft pick because we have seen what he can do at the NFL level.

Mecca
03-15-2009, 04:37 PM
I'm not super excited and I'm not saying that he isn't a risk. I'm saying he's safer than a draft pick because we have seen what he can do at the NFL level.

I think he has just as many question marks as those college guys do.

Blick
03-15-2009, 04:45 PM
I think he has just as many question marks as those college guys do.

How?

DaneMcCloud
03-15-2009, 04:47 PM
Professionals "should" know better than us.
.

You know, I see people say this all time.

It's FOOTBALL. It's not fucking rocket science.

It's not mathematics, it's not accounting, it's not statistics (even though people try to turn into statistics, as if football were baseball).

The bottom line is that Mecca, Milkman, OTWP58 and others (including myself) may absolutely agree and be "right" about player and a personnel decision. The Chiefs front office might disagree and be "wrong".

Being paid for something doesn't always mean that you're correct. If that were the case, the Chiefs would have more than one playoff victory in the past 15 years.

B_Ambuehl
03-15-2009, 04:56 PM
Scotty Mitchell looked pretty good prior to getting traded to Detroit. A.J. Feeley looked pretty good for the Eagles prior to getting traded to the Dolphins. Matt Cassell looked pretty good for the Patriots prior to getting traded to the Chiefs.

We'll see how it plays out but history is not necessarily on Cassells side.

Blick
03-15-2009, 06:30 PM
Cassel is the only guy who played a full year.

keg in kc
03-15-2009, 07:06 PM
The bottom line is that Mecca, Milkman, OTWP58 and others (including myself) may absolutely agree and be "right" about player and a personnel decision. The Chiefs front office might disagree and be "wrong".That's certainly true. But it's also not a foregone conclusion.

melbar
03-15-2009, 07:44 PM
When Mitchell went to Detroit, he had a couple of pretty talented receivers, not to mention Barry Sanders, to work with.

But you missed the point entirely.

The point is that there aren't any successes you can point to in this type of scenario, whereas you can point to numerous successful draft picks, even as you are pointing to failures.

Drew Brees

young guy with a little success going to another team...

melbar
03-15-2009, 07:45 PM
We can argue about this back and forth but I'll say this Matt Cassel is in no way a sure thing or safer than the guys in the draft while being older than they are...

If this move doesn't work out this is the kind of thing people will look back on and go "that really ****ed us"

Other than being successfull against NFL corners and schemes...

DeezNutz
03-15-2009, 07:51 PM
Other than being successfull against NFL corners and schemes...

...while having much trouble connecting on the deep ball and throwing to two of the best receivers in the game.

There's nothing "safe" about the Cassel acquisition; it's a different type of risk and reach (around).

Halfcan
03-15-2009, 08:05 PM
Sanchez:

Does not always throw a tight spiral...Has some trouble with the deep ball...

He's a Wobble-Launcher! Sign him up.

:) good one

philfree
03-15-2009, 08:08 PM
All QB's in the draft are reaches and to risky meanwhile trading for a guy is the right move...Carl conditioning man.

I was all for Stafford but we traded for Cassel. Since it was a 2nd round pick I think the Cassel trade was a good trade. As far as risks and reaches go Cassel is less of a risk because we got him for a 2nd round pick. Also what makes Cassel different the some of the other traded QBs is that our GM is the guy the drafted him. Another thing is Cassel started for 15 games. You might as well call that a season. He improved as the season went on too and he finished very strong. There's a big difference in Cassel and guys like Mitchel, Feeley. Now as far as a reach I feel like most top five QBs are reaches because of value of the position. Teams reach for the percieved value even if there are bettter players in the draft at other positions. So to me Stafford is a reach. I would have been glad to reach for him though. Now as far traded QBs not working out. Didn't the Pack trade for Brett Favre? I think that worked out o.k.

PhilFree:arrow:

Blick
03-15-2009, 08:09 PM
...while having much trouble connecting on the deep ball and throwing to two of the best receivers in the game.

Yeah, he had so much trouble connecting on passes that he was 5th in completion percentage among QB's with over 500 attempts and 11th overall.

You don't throw the deep ball that often, anyway.

Oh, and Gonzalez and Bowe aren't bums. I don't think he'll struggle throwing to those guys.

DeezNutz
03-15-2009, 08:17 PM
Yeah, he had so much trouble connecting on passes that he was 5th in completion percentage among QB's with over 500 attempts and 11th overall.

You don't throw the deep ball that often, anyway.

Oh, and Gonzalez and Bowe aren't bums. I don't think he'll struggle throwing to those guys.

Me: "he had trouble connecting on the deep ball."

You: giving me stats about his completion percentage.

This makes absolutely no sense. Did I say he was generally inaccurate? And you better damn well be able to stretch the field a little bit if things are going to open up for Bowe and Gonzo.

The former, by the way, shouldn't even currently be put in the same sentence as Moss and Welker.

Coogs
03-15-2009, 08:23 PM
Is it totally out of the question that we pick one of these guys if they are there at #3?


I would like to think that no, it is not out of the question. The new regime... both HC and GM have stated they are going to build this thing right. If these two (or either one of these two) grade out as top 3 picks, and happen to still be there at the #3 pick, IMO it would be a huge mistake to go with a Cassel/Thigpen ticket as the future.

QB is the biggest piece to any franchse being good year after year. The price for Cassel and Vrabel happened to be right, and it just happend to take place on the 2nd day into free agency instead of the day before the draft. I have a feeling most of the teams including Denver would have prefered to sit tight until closer to the draft to move on Cassel, but the Patriots wish to move Vrabel with his signing bonus due probably threw a wrench into the whole process.

And every single other pick we could make at #3 comes with the question mark. That fact alone makes me think there will be no takers for a trade down. So if one of these two is at the top of the draft board when our pick is up we should go that way.

Remember, for every Ryan leaf out there, there is also a Peyton Manning.

Blick
03-15-2009, 08:27 PM
Me: "he had trouble connecting on the deep ball."

You: giving me stats about his completion percentage.

This makes absolutely no sense. Did I say he was generally inaccurate? And you better damn well be able to stretch the field a little bit if things are going to open up for Bowe and Gonzo.

The former, by the way, shouldn't even currently be put in the same sentence as Moss and Welker.

You: "He had trouble connecting on the deep ball."

Me: "Who fucking cares? He's accurate and the deep ball isn't thrown that often.

Who stretched the field last year to open up things for Gonzo and Bowe?

DeezNutz
03-15-2009, 08:34 PM
You: "He had trouble connecting on the deep ball."

Me: "Who ****ing cares? He's accurate and the deep ball isn't thrown that often.

Who stretched the field last year to open up things for Gonzo and Bowe?

Fine. Then don't give me stats about completion percentage more generally since this wasn't and isn't central to my point.

No one. And this was a major problem in opening up the passing game.

There's little question that Cassel's perceived accuracy had a lot to do with whom he was throwing to. Moss offers probably the biggest window in the league. Welker is nails underneath. Moss provided the deep threat, and this opened things up for Welker and all of the short to intermediate routes. The Chiefs will need to help Cassel in this regard, too, or his accuracy will likely drop.

Cassel won't have these luxuries in KC. Gonzo is great, and I expect him to put up another big year. It wouldn't surprise to see his level of play decline, though.

Bowe is far too inconsistent at this point, despite showing much promise.

philfree
03-15-2009, 08:38 PM
I would like to think that no, it is not out of the question. The new regime... both HC and GM have stated they are going to build this thing right. If these two (or either one of these two) grade out as top 3 picks, and happen to still be there at the #3 pick, IMO it would be a huge mistake to go with a Cassel/Thigpen ticket as the future.

QB is the biggest piece to any franchse being good year after year. The price for Cassel and Vrabel happened to be right, and it just happend to take place on the 2nd day into free agency instead of the day before the draft. I have a feeling most of the teams including Denver would have prefered to sit tight until closer to the draft to move on Cassel, but the Patriots wish to move Vrabel with his signing bonus due probably threw a wrench into the whole process.

And every single other pick we could make at #3 comes with the question mark. That fact alone makes me think there will be no takers for a trade down. So if one of these two is at the top of the draft board when our pick is up we should go that way.

Remember, for every Ryan leaf out there, there is also a Peyton Manning.


If Stafford is still on the board and no team will trade up to get him I'd have a hard time not picking him. IMO we'd have a great situation at QB for now and in the future. I mean how much will it suck if we start the season with Cassel and he gets injured and all we have is Thigpen and no other hope for the future? Alot! But with Stafford waiting in the wings we'll still have hope.



PhilFree:arrow:

Coogs
03-15-2009, 08:40 PM
If Stafford is still on the board and no team will trade up to get him I'd have a hard time not picking him. IMO we'd have a great situation at QB for now and in the future. I mean how much will it suck if we start the season with Cassel and he gets injured and all we have is Thigpen and no other hope for the future? Alot! But with Stafford waiting in the wings we'll still have hope.



PhilFree:arrow:

Yep! :thumb:

DaneMcCloud
03-15-2009, 08:44 PM
Remember, for every Ryan leaf out there, there is also a Peyton Manning.

There's only been one Ryan Leaf and he was a monumental fuck up. He was messed up in the head before the draft (many psychologists said as much) and he's been a fuck up after the NFL.

Face it: He's just a fuck up, one time wonder.

There have been many other QB's that busted in the top half of the first round (McNown, Akili. Smith, Couch, Alex Smith etc.) but they busted because they were either chosen too high (McNown, Akili Smith) and weren't given proper time to develop or they came from a bad system (Couch, Alex Smith) that didn't prepare them for the NFL.

I hardly doubt that Sanchez or Stafford will be epic fuck up busts like Ryan Leaf. They may end up being just serviceable (i.e. Harrington) or one (or both) of them may end up being special.

The determining factor is probably what team ends up drafting them.

philfree
03-15-2009, 08:51 PM
Yep! :thumb:

Also if they(any team) want him(and you know some do) they should have to pay(give us draft picks) to get him. If they won't then why would we just let them have him? QBs are too valuable to just let that happen.

PhilFree:arrow:

Coogs
03-15-2009, 08:52 PM
There's only been one Ryan Leaf and he was a monumental fuck up. He was messed up in the head before the draft (many psychologists said as much) and he's been a fuck up after the NFL.

Face it: He's just a fuck up, one time wonder.

There have been many other QB's that busted in the top half of the first round (McNown, Akili. Smith, Couch, Alex Smith etc.) but they busted because they were either chosen too high (McNown, Akili Smith) and weren't given proper time to develop or they came from a bad system (Couch, Alex Smith) that didn't prepare them for the NFL.

I hardly doubt that Sanchez or Stafford will be epic fuck up busts like Ryan Leaf. They may end up being just serviceable (i.e. Harrington) or one (or both) of them may end up being special.

The determining factor is probably what team ends up drafting them.

Oh I know. I was just kind of being a smart ass for Lex Luther in post #4.

Chiefs=Good
03-15-2009, 09:07 PM
Uh, yes.

Cassel is the quarterback. You guys need to get over it.

You might also want to remember that for every draft with Eli Manning and Philip Rivers at the top, there's a draft with Trent Dilfer and Heath Shuler. For every Payton Manning, there's a Ryan Leaf. All of this whining about Stafford and Sanchez is pointless.

Im sooo sick of this argument.. It can be made for ANY player...

:cuss:

Blick
03-15-2009, 09:11 PM
Fine. Then don't give me stats about completion percentage more generally since this wasn't and isn't central to my point.

No one. And this was a major problem in opening up the passing game.

There's little question that Cassel's perceived accuracy had a lot to do with whom he was throwing to. Moss offers probably the biggest window in the league. Welker is nails underneath. Moss provided the deep threat, and this opened things up for Welker and all of the short to intermediate routes. The Chiefs will need to help Cassel in this regard, too, or his accuracy will likely drop.

Cassel won't have these luxuries in KC. Gonzo is great, and I expect him to put up another big year. It wouldn't surprise to see his level of play decline, though.

Bowe is far too inconsistent at this point, despite showing much promise.

OK.

I think a major problem in the passing game was Thigpen. Bowe and Gonzalez were still able to put up good numbers without anyone stretching the field and without a legit QB. I don't think stretching the field is as necessary as you believe. However, I won't argue that it wouldn't help the offense.

Even though Moss is a deep threat, he also caught a lot of balls on screens and other quick passes. Bowe will be utilized that way too because of his ability to run after the catch. Easy throws like that will help Cassel gain confidence and keep his completion percentage up.

We both know Tony G is money. However, I too wouldn't be surprised if his level of play declined a little bit.

I hope Bowe's hands get more consistent.

aturnis
03-15-2009, 10:18 PM
Just like nobody knows if Cassel is not Scott Mitchell 2.0, a product of talent all around him and the system of get it to playmakers fast and let them make the play for you.

We can argue this back and forth endlessly.

Yeah...and he said give him a season or two. Then decide. Yet you still choose to try and argue.

Mecca
03-15-2009, 11:47 PM
Cassel has issues, he wasn't good out of anything but shotgun, he's got a shitty deep ball and he's not good throwing to the middle of the field, those are his 3 biggest issues.

Blick
03-16-2009, 12:01 AM
All of those things can be improved with experience.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 12:08 AM
All of those things can be improved with experience.

I just better not hear this is "not nearly as risky" when he has little experience, is the least physically talented of the 3 and has tons of things to work on and an older age.

I did however think it was funny to see a bunch of people who said they didn't want him flip their stance when it happened.

DeezNutz
03-16-2009, 12:12 AM
I just better not hear this is "not nearly as risky" when he has little experience, is the least physically talented of the 3 and has tons of things to work on and an older age.

I did however think it was funny to see a bunch of people who said they didn't want him flip their stance when it happened.

The word "safe" damn near makes me vomit before I get to the "f."

People saying we took the "safe" QB and wanting to draft that "safe" LB...

Mecca
03-16-2009, 12:29 AM
The word "safe" damn near makes me vomit before I get to the "f."

People saying we took the "safe" QB and wanting to draft that "safe" LB...

That along with the obsession with underdogs and undertalented hardworkers are generally my biggest annoyances.

Blick
03-16-2009, 12:43 AM
I just better not hear this is "not nearly as risky" when he has little experience, is the least physically talented of the 3 and has tons of things to work on and an older age.

I did however think it was funny to see a bunch of people who said they didn't want him flip their stance when it happened.

Your first point is experience. Cassel has more in the NFL.

Your 2nd point is physical talent. The transition to the NFL is more about the mental side of the game at QB, in my opinion. It doesn't matter if a guy can "make all the throws" if he doesn't make good decisions.

Sure, Cassel has things to work on, but so does every QB after their first year starting. It's obvious that he was paying attention and learned a lot when he was a backup so I think the chances are pretty good that he'll be able to keep improving himself.

Ultra Peanut
03-16-2009, 05:18 AM
feelin' so wistful right now
i like pioli, but wow
sanchez is the gat damn fuckin' bomb diggity

Lex Luthor
03-16-2009, 08:15 AM
There's only been one Ryan Leaf and he was a monumental **** up. He was messed up in the head before the draft (many psychologists said as much) and he's been a **** up after the NFL.

Face it: He's just a **** up, one time wonder.

There have been many other QB's that busted in the top half of the first round (McNown, Akili. Smith, Couch, Alex Smith etc.) but they busted because they were either chosen too high (McNown, Akili Smith) and weren't given proper time to develop or they came from a bad system (Couch, Alex Smith) that didn't prepare them for the NFL.

I hardly doubt that Sanchez or Stafford will be epic **** up busts like Ryan Leaf. They may end up being just serviceable (i.e. Harrington) or one (or both) of them may end up being special.

The determining factor is probably what team ends up drafting them.
If your point is that there is only one NFL draft failure named Ryan Leaf, I'll give that to you.

However, if you're trying to say that Ryan Leaf is the only monumental failure, then you've already contradicted that with the four monumental failures you listed. You seem to think that as long as you can explain it away with "they were chosen too high", or "they weren't given proper time to develop or they came from a bad system", then somehow they can't be considered monumental failures. But they are.

In addition to the four guys you named, you might also want to add Trent Dilfer, Heath Shuler, Andre Ware, and Tommy Maddox to the list of first round draftees who were complete failures. (OK, Dilfer did win a Super Bowl by handing the ball off 600 times, but I digress). Not to mention Dan McGwire, Todd Marinovich, David Klingler, Rick Mirer, Jim Druckenmiller, Joey Harrington, and Patrick Ramsey. And I'm still waiting for David Carr, Matt Leinart and Vince Young to start tearing up the league, along with Jamarkus Russell and Tavaris Jackson. It's too early to say that the guys in that last group are failures, but they can certainly be called disappointing so far.

A lot of people have said that this is a weak quarterback class. Hell, Sanchez's own coach has said that he isn't ready, and the reviews on both of these guys have been mixed all along. You guys act like the Chiefs traded for Scott Mitchell and are going to pass on John Elway.

The fact is that Scott Pioli has seen Cassel play for years, and he wants him. Josh McDaniel wanted him bad enough to trade away Jay Cutler. Given those endorsements and the fact that Cassel only cost the Chiefs a second rounder, it's a hell of a trade.

Let me repeat that for you: It's a hell of a trade. It's impossible to predict whether or not it will work out, but given the information we have right now, it's a hell of a trade.

And you're smoking crack if you think Pioli is now going to turn around and draft either Stafford or Sanchez. I'll bet $1000 that it doesn't happen. Any takers?

Mecca
03-16-2009, 01:17 PM
Why are you throwing up guys like Ramsey and Maddox and Drunkenmiller who were very late 1st round picks?

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-16-2009, 01:21 PM
Why don't we also include the possibility that Patriot guys aren't always the best evaluators of retread quarterbacks.

Parcells decided to bring in Drew Bledsoe's corpse to Dallas and Pennington to Miami. Now McDaniels and Pioli both wanted Cassel.

I think it has far more to do with familiarity breeding contentment than it does an honest evaluation of the abilities of a given player.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 01:22 PM
Why don't we also include the possibility that Patriot guys aren't always the best evaluators of retread quarterbacks.

Parcells decided to bring in Drew Bledsoe's corpse to Dallas and Pennington to Miami. Now McDaniels and Pioli both wanted Cassel.

I think it has far more to do with familiarity breeding contentment than it does an honest evaluation of the abilities of a given player.

If anyone thinks Matt Cassel brings close to the physical talent these guys do, doesn't have numerous flaws he had to work on and has remotely similar upside I'm going to question what they're looking at.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-16-2009, 01:23 PM
If anyone thinks Matt Cassel brings close to the physical talent these guys do, doesn't have numerous flaws he had to work on and has remotely similar upside I'm going to question what they're looking at.

The fact that he has an arrowhead on his helmet.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 01:25 PM
The fact that he has an arrowhead on his helmet.

Pretty much, numerous people completely flipped their stance on him as soon as he was traded for. I'm sorry that's hypocritical, which is why I won't do that.

Blick
03-16-2009, 01:26 PM
I don't know what you guys see in Stafford man. The guy looks like the next Kyle Boller to me.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 01:27 PM
I don't know what you guys see in Stafford man. The guy looks like the next Kyle Boller to me.

Not every strong arm QB is a bust or is "Kyle Boller"

Tell me how they are remotely the same player other than they have strong arms.

AustinChief
03-16-2009, 01:28 PM
Why don't we also include the possibility that Patriot guys aren't always the best evaluators of retread quarterbacks.

Parcells decided to bring in Drew Bledsoe's corpse to Dallas and Pennington to Miami. Now McDaniels and Pioli both wanted Cassel.

I think it has far more to do with familiarity breeding contentment than it does an honest evaluation of the abilities of a given player.

Not a huge fan of either Pennington or Bledsoe... but Bledsoe had a damn good year his first year in Dallas and Pennington was pretty good last year with Miami...

Looks like Parcells did ok with both of those pick ups. And there is a big difference between retreads like them and a possible one year wonder.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-16-2009, 01:30 PM
Not a huge fan of either Pennington or Bledsoe... but Bledsoe had a damn good year his first year in Dallas and Pennington was pretty good last year with Miami...

Looks like Parcells did ok with both of those pick ups. And there is a big difference between retreads like them and a possible one year wonder.

There is a difference in the stage of their career that they are in, yes, but the most important factor is that none of those guys are anything approaching a franchise QB.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 01:31 PM
There is a difference in the stage of their career that they are in, yes, but the most important factor is that none of those guys are anything approaching a franchise QB.

They're great if your desire is to make your team "ok" which seems to be the blueprint of all the Parcells guys.

Take over a shitty team and immediately bring in a bunch of guys you know so you can win 7 or 8 games.

Brock
03-16-2009, 01:55 PM
They're great if your desire is to make your team "ok" which seems to be the blueprint of all the Parcells guys.

Take over a shitty team and immediately bring in a bunch of guys you know so you can win 7 or 8 games.

"Make your team ok" is the blueprint of Bill Belichick, Tom Coughlin?

Blick
03-16-2009, 02:17 PM
Not every strong arm QB is a bust or is "Kyle Boller"

Tell me how they are remotely the same player other than they have strong arms.

They're close to the same size/build. They both had accuracy problems, although Stafford is more accurate. They both struggled early in their college careers and improved as they got older. They both wore #7. :D

And yeah, like Boller, people are going ape shit over Stafford's arm strength and completely ignoring the fact that he isn't that accurate.

Another comparison would be a smaller, poor man's Jay Cutler.

Chiefnj2
03-16-2009, 02:18 PM
They're great if your desire is to make your team "ok" which seems to be the blueprint of all the Parcells guys.

Take over a shitty team and immediately bring in a bunch of guys you know so you can win 7 or 8 games.

Parcells never gets teams above that 7 or 8 win hump. He sucks.

ChiefsCountry
03-16-2009, 02:21 PM
Parcells never gets teams above that 7 or 8 win hump. He sucks.

He never wins playoff games without Belichick either.

Count Zarth
03-16-2009, 02:21 PM
How can anyone compare Bledsoe and Pennington to Cassel?

They were in their mid to late 30s...

bdeg
03-16-2009, 02:42 PM
They're close to the same size/build. They both had accuracy problems, although Stafford is more accurate. They both struggled early in their college careers and improved as they got older. They both wore #7. :D

And yeah, like Boller, people are going ape shit over Stafford's arm strength and completely ignoring the fact that he isn't that accurate.

Another comparison would be a smaller, poor man's Jay Cutler.

So basically, questionable accuracy although there was consistent improvement.

That sounds like Matt Ryan to me.

Mecca
03-16-2009, 02:51 PM
Kyle Bollers career completion percentage in college was under 50%...lets not act like he was close to Stafford in that area.

Blick
03-16-2009, 02:51 PM
So basically, questionable accuracy although there was consistent improvement.

That sounds like Matt Ryan to me.

Matt Ryan had 2 years where his completion % was over 60, and his Senior year was close at 59.3. He probably would have gone over 60% again if he hadn't had to throw the ball a ridiculous 654 times.

Stafford had 2 years at 52.7 and 55.7 before barely cracking 60% as a Junior with 61.4.

Stafford had much better receivers and a much better running back, too.

I liked Ryan a lot more than the QB's this year.

Blick
03-16-2009, 02:54 PM
Kyle Bollers career completion percentage in college was under 50%...lets not act like he was close to Stafford in that area.

I know, but Stafford's career completion percentage isn't exactly sparkling at 56.5 or something.

If you look at QB's who have been taken in the first round for the past 10 years, the guys who were over 60% in college have done a lot better in the NFL than the guys who were below 60%.