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Dave Lane
03-16-2009, 08:26 AM
So I was wondering IF we had had a competent coaching staff last year what the Chiefs record would have been. I think Herm cost this team 3-4 wins at least with the Tampa 2 and his conservative views and inability to make adjustments at halftime or game plan for teams. Really with good coaching I think last years squad could have gone 8-8.

I believe there is way more talent on this team than 2-14 and it has been totally misused and underperformed due to Herm & Co.

What say you Planet?

DeezNutz
03-16-2009, 08:30 AM
Herm isn't of HC stock, so this isn't even an argument.

But the roster was bereft of talent at some of the most important positions: no QB, no pass rush, etc.

Two of the top performers at value positions were rookies: Albert and Flowers. Gonzo was his usual self, and Bowe had flashes.

Maybe a good staff squeezes out another victory or two, but I'd say our record is fairly indicative of a team with no QB and an historically bad defense, which was largely due to lack of talent.

StcChief
03-16-2009, 08:32 AM
since were being revisionist history 4-12.... It's still better than the 22 guys off the street. :)

OnTheWarpath58
03-16-2009, 08:33 AM
Herm isn't of HC stock, so this isn't even an argument.

But the roster was bereft at talent at some of the most important positions: no QB, no pass rush, etc.

Two of the top performers at value positions were rookies: Albert and Flowers. Gonzo was his usual self, and Bowe had flashes.

Maybe a good staff squeezes out another victory or two, but I'd say our record is fairly indicative of a team with no QB and an historically bad defense, which was largely predicated on lack of talent.

Agreed.

They are who we thought they were.

Deberg_1990
03-16-2009, 08:37 AM
Herm isn't of HC stock, so this isn't even an argument.

But the roster was bereft at talent at some of the most important positions: no QB, no pass rush, etc.

Two of the top performers at value positions were rookies: Albert and Flowers. Gonzo was his usual self, and Bowe had flashes.

Maybe a good staff squeezes out another victory or two, but I'd say our record is fairly indicative of a team with no QB and an historically bad defense, which was largely due to lack of talent.

This. Thank You.

Dave Lane
03-16-2009, 08:46 AM
I think the subtraction of Gunther and Herm and a new staff that can make adjustments is huge. Look at Miami year to year (2007 & 2008) which was real? I really think the talent is there to go 8-8 if utilized correctly.

CoMoChief
03-16-2009, 09:11 AM
Pendergast is an awful DC. just sayin' Hope he can catch lightning here and become good but I dont see it.

DeezNutz
03-16-2009, 09:21 AM
Agreed.

They are who we thought they were.

Yep.

My preseason prediction was 3-13/4-12, so it wasn't much of a surprise.

raybec 4
03-16-2009, 09:25 AM
I can't say that we would be any better than 4-12, I haven't seen any changes on the defensive staff that lead me to believe they will even break the top 25 this year, much less last.

Buehler445
03-16-2009, 09:29 AM
Herm was a complete fucking go-tard. I think decent coaching could have pulled wins out at TB and NYJ and should have been able to accomplish a win in the HOME OPENER against THE FAIDERS. Coaching should have at least gotten us a split with the dolts. Maybe pulled one at NE.

So that adds 4 wins. Maybe 5 or 6. I didn't think 8-8 was possible with last years crew, but if that team can avoid the full fail 2nd half, its possible. I thing relisically though, a different staff could yield 6 wins. JMO
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Mr. Krab
03-16-2009, 09:30 AM
We have no idea whether Haley is any good or not. I do believe we will field a more talented team with Pioli doing the selecting though.

Craqhead
03-16-2009, 09:32 AM
Herm isn't of HC stock, so this isn't even an argument.

But the roster was bereft of talent at some of the most important positions: no QB, no pass rush, etc.

Two of the top performers at value positions were rookies: Albert and Flowers. Gonzo was his usual self, and Bowe had flashes.

Maybe a good staff squeezes out another victory or two, but I'd say our record is fairly indicative of a team with no QB and an historically bad defense, which was largely due to lack of talent.

Pretty much sums it up.

Add in the fact that Herm was a Tampa~2 guy and that Gun is, well a gunslinger(blitz happy) on D. Having ur DC coaching a system he has no exp. or faith in just added too how terrible our D was under this HC/DC combo.

Woodrow Call
03-16-2009, 09:33 AM
4-6 wins max. The lack of talent, especially on D, makes .500 or better impossible IMO. With no line, no LBs, and no safeties I just don't see it.

Mr. Krab
03-16-2009, 09:36 AM
4-6 wins max. The lack of talent, especially on D, makes .500 or better impossible IMO. With no line, no LBs, and no safeties I just don't see it.
Scheme and coaching can make players look so much better.

htismaqe
03-16-2009, 09:39 AM
Scheme and coaching can make players look so much better.

Yep.

Dorsey is talented. Tank was highly-touted coming out and his question marks weren't talent-related. DJ was one of the top LB prospects in years. Pollard had a reputation coming out of college.

I'm not suggesting any of those guys will develop into pro bowlers. But these guys aren't chopped liver.

Our coaching was awful, and not just on gameday. On the practice field, in the film room, everywhere. The schemes were awful, the playcalling was awful. It was all awful.

Coogs
03-16-2009, 09:40 AM
Pretty much sums it up.

Add in the fact that Herm was a Tampa~2 guy and that Gun is, well a gunslinger(blitz happy) on D. Having ur DC coaching a system he has no exp. or faith in just added too how terrible our D was under this HC/DC combo.

Don't forget Gun sucked under DV as well.

Mr. Krab
03-16-2009, 09:44 AM
Don't forget Gun sucked under DV as well.
Gunther is a one trick pony. The only time he had success as a defensive coordinator is when he never had to worry about a pass rush because of Neil Smith and Derrick Thomas.

The passing game has gotten much more complicated since then and he can't just run the defense on auto pilot.

SNR
03-16-2009, 09:50 AM
There are a few close games that we definitely could have won without bone-headed playcalling. Tampa Bay. Even New England.

DaneMcCloud
03-16-2009, 11:17 AM
I think the subtraction of Gunther and Herm and a new staff that can make adjustments is huge. Look at Miami year to year (2007 & 2008) which was real? I really think the talent is there to go 8-8 if utilized correctly.

I don't.

The Chiefs roster was completely bereft of talent. When your starters are scrubs like Niswanger, Smith, Jones, McIntosh, Boiman, Harris and Thomas, you go through two or three kickers, you go through 3 QB's and lose a RB to an ACL, you're going to suck.

The Chiefs have no depth and no game changing defensive player. I just don't believe that some other coaching staff could "magically" win 6 more games with these losers.

And as for Haley and his staff (in which most of the offensive coaches have been retained), IMO, they have to prove that they can actually coach a football team before I'd make any such claims.

DaneMcCloud
03-16-2009, 11:19 AM
There are a few close games that we definitely could have won without bone-headed playcalling. Tampa Bay. Even New England.

Completely disagree.

The Tampa Bay game was lost because the defense didn't have enough talent on the field to stop their offense. It had nothing to do with "bone-headed" play calling. The Chiefs were up 24-6 at halftime. Special teams gave up a TD and the Bucs offense out-performed the Chiefs defense in the second half while the Chiefs offense was completely shutdown.

Lack of talent on the field lost the Tampa game.

Chief Faithful
03-16-2009, 11:21 AM
If we had our current staff coaching the Chiefs last year I seriously doubt they would have gone into the season with Croyle, Huard, and Thigpen as the QBs. That alone would have resulted in more wins.

Another example is Jones at RG. No coaching staff worth their salt stays with Jones at RG. They had better solutions sitting on the bench. Anyone watching the Preseason was painfully aware of all these problems.

Buehler445
03-16-2009, 11:22 AM
I don't.

The Chiefs roster was completely bereft of talent. When your starters are scrubs like Niswanger, Smith, Jones, McIntosh, Boiman, Harris and Thomas, you go through two or three kickers, you go through 3 QB's and lose a RB to an ACL, you're going to suck.

The Chiefs have no depth and no game changing defensive player. I just don't believe that some other coaching staff could "magically" win 6 more games with these losers.

And as for Haley and his staff (in which most of the offensive coaches have been retained), IMO, they have to prove that they can actually coach a football team before I'd make any such claims.

The roster was void of much talent at all, yet we were leading in the TB game NYJ game, and it came down to the last play in both of the dolts games.

The question on the table is were any of those games winnable with decent coaching?

I'd think so. Herm was a giant hunk of dung. Surely a DECENT coach could scratch out some wins in those games. If not, you're giving Herm an awful lot of credit for getting the MAXIMUM output from this roster.
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keg in kc
03-16-2009, 11:27 AM
Current staff? No idea. Competent staff? 6 or 7

Chief Faithful
03-16-2009, 11:28 AM
Current staff? No idea. Competent staff? 6 or 7

You are way too pragmatic for this BB.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-16-2009, 11:30 AM
We should have won 5 games last year. We also should have used Dorsey in his proper role, and gone for it on 4th and an Asian cocklength against SD.

thurman merman
03-16-2009, 11:32 AM
great thread. i definitely agree that herm cost the team at least 3-4 victories. i think they could have won 6-7 games with a competent coaching staff.

Count Zarth
03-16-2009, 11:33 AM
Tampa Bay
San Diego I
San Diego II

Three games we would have won with a better coaching staff, no question.

You might be able to make a case for the New England, New York, and Miami games, too.

FAX
03-16-2009, 12:33 PM
It's a good question. Really good.

The talent problem is difficult to overcome.

Nobody can make chicken salad out of chicken poop, and who would want to? I mean, you could have the best mayonnaise and pickles and bread and stuff in the whole world and your sandwich would still taste a whole lot like chicken poop. Unless it was poop from one of those fancy, new-fangled, genetically modified chickens, of course. They say that those genetically modified chickens poop out stuff that tastes like Beef Stroganoff on wild rice. That still doesn't taste like chicken salad, but it's better tasting than poop. Not that I'd know. Personally, I've never eaten chicken poop - genetically modified, or otherwise. Starving peeps might, I guess.

Still, having a decent coaching staff would have made an enormous difference. For example, I think a different staff would have acquired a better offensive line in the off season. So ... better offensive line = 1 additional win. No Tampa 2 defensive scheme = 2 additional wins. Better second half adjustments = 2 additional wins. Ergo, 7 and 9 is probably close.

FAX