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The Poz
03-17-2009, 03:24 PM
http://www.kcchiefs.com/news/2009/03/17/kansas_city_agrees_to_terms_with_three_players/

The Kansas City Chiefs announced on Tuesday that the club has agreed to terms with unrestricted free agents WR Bobby Engram and LB Monty Beisel in addition to free agent WR Terrance Copper.

EyePod
03-17-2009, 03:25 PM
Nice.

The Poz
03-17-2009, 03:26 PM
Engram (5-10, 192) has appeared in 171 games (113 starts) during his 13-year NFL career with Chicago (’96-00) and Seattle (2001-08). He has caught 645 passes for 7,690 yards (11.9 avg.) with 35 TDs and rushed five times for 19 yards (3.8 avg.). He has added 102 punt returns for 1,059 yards (10.4 avg.) with two TDs and 30 kickoff returns for 643 yards (21.4 avg.). Engram has also played in nine postseason contests (seven starts), including Super Bowl XL vs. Pittsburgh. He has caught 35 passes for 476 yards (13.6 avg.) with two TDs in the playoffs. He originally entered the NFL as a second-round draft pick (52nd overall) of Chicago in the ‘96 NFL Draft.

The Penn State product set school records with 167 catches for 3,026 yards (18.1 avg.) and 31 touchdowns. Engram compiled 786 punt return yards in his collegiate career, the second-highest total in school history. He was a three-time all-state selection at Camden High School in Camden, South Carolina.

Beisel (6-3, 244) has played in 110 games (19 starts) during his previous eight years in the NFL. He has enjoyed stops with Kansas City (2001-04), New England (2005) and Arizona (2006-08) and has produced 199 tackles (132 solo), 4.5 sacks (-19.0 yards), two INTs, one fumble recovery and two forced fumbles. He also has 111 special teams tackles, a fumble recovery on special teams in addition to recovering a blocked punt in the end zone for a touchdown. Beisel has also played in seven postseason contests (two starts), including a start in Super Bowl XLIII vs. Pittsburgh (2/1/09). He originally entered the NFL as a fourth-round selection (107th overall) of Kansas City in the 2001 NFL Draft.

The Douglass, Kansas native played in 44 games at Kansas State, finishing his collegiate career for the Wildcats with 192 tackles (110 solo), 22.0 sacks, 45.0 stops for loss and 18 passes defensed. Beisel started all 13 games as a senior, tallying a team-high 102 tackles to go with 10.5 sacks, 19.0 tackles for loss and three forced fumbles to earn first-team All-Big 12 honors. He was a ‘96 Parade All-America selection by USA Today as a senior at Douglass High School.

Copper (6-0, 207) has seen action 63 games (five starts) in his five-year NFL career with Dallas (2004-05), New Orleans (2006-08) and Baltimore (2008). He has caught 46 passes for 600 yards (13.0 avg.) with six TDs and returned 26 kickoffs for 502 yards (19.3 avg.). In addition, he has 41 special teams tackles and one special teams fumble recovery. Copper has played in two playoff games (one start), recording four receptions for 32 yards (8.0 avg.). He originally entered the NFL as a rookie free agent with Dallas in 2004.

The East Carolina product registered a school-record 139 catches for 1,683 yards (12.1 avg.). Copper was named All-Conference USA as a senior when he caught 87 passes for 897 yards (10.3 avg.) with two TDs. He was an All-America selection by USA Today as a senior at Washington High School in Washington, North Carolina.

Pestilence
03-17-2009, 03:26 PM
A press conference for these scrubs?

KCChiefsFan88
03-17-2009, 03:26 PM
If the Chiefs are going to sign an old WR why not make a play for Torry Holt?

EyePod
03-17-2009, 03:27 PM
Bobby Engram had a great season last year, and then Seattle blew this season (and it wasn't his fault). He's still got some talent.

EyePod
03-17-2009, 03:27 PM
If the Chiefs are going to sign an old WR why not make a play for Torry Holt?

I'm guessing his price was too high? St. Louis cut him for a reason....

Molitoth
03-17-2009, 03:27 PM
I don't recall many peeps wanting Kennison at the time either...

Old scrubs can sometimes be useful.

SBK
03-17-2009, 03:28 PM
Print em

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:28 PM
Beisel? Wow...
The Special Teams Unit is going to be the strength of this team.

*Smiles then realizes what he just said*
*Reaches for rusty butterknife*

unothadeal
03-17-2009, 03:28 PM
THEE Terrence Cooper?

OnTheWarpath58
03-17-2009, 03:29 PM
ROFL

Reerun_KC
03-17-2009, 03:30 PM
Wow very impressive.....

Mecca
03-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Bobby Engram had a great season last year, and then Seattle blew this season (and it wasn't his fault). He's still got some talent.

47 for 489 and no TDs with 3 games missed is a great year?

Sam Hall
03-17-2009, 03:31 PM
Shaun MacDonald or Brandon Lloyd would have been better.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:32 PM
Shaun MacDonald or Brandon Lloyd would have been better.

I would've taken Shaun McDonald.
He's only 28.

Molitoth
03-17-2009, 03:33 PM
I agree, Brandon Lloyd could be nice if someone utilizes him like he was in San Fran.

Fritz88
03-17-2009, 03:33 PM
A press conference for these scrubs?

you never know what pioli has under his sleeve.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 03:33 PM
We could have a pretty good mix of young guys and vets now that is the only positive that I see.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 03:34 PM
McDonald is pretty much a 1 trick pony he's a slot guy and nothing more and it's questionable how good he is at that.

Blindside58
03-17-2009, 03:34 PM
What Happened to Mike Furrey? I started him in fantasy a few times over the past 2 seasons.

soundmind
03-17-2009, 03:34 PM
Shaun MacDonald or Brandon Lloyd would have been better.

I wanted Lloyd last time he was available....which was a whole year ago. I can't think of a more worthless signing than Engram. He'll start 5 games then retire.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 03:34 PM
What Happened to Mike Furrey? I started him in fantasy a few times over the past 2 seasons.

Teams look down upon being a furry.

stevieray
03-17-2009, 03:35 PM
cool...

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 03:36 PM
A press conference for these scrubs?

If I were Bowe, I'd be lookin' at this shit and and thinking "what the fuck"?

I'd also be thinking I need to up my game big time at camp and in the pre season.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 03:37 PM
PFT

Copper was a special-teams standout in Dallas during Chiefs coach Todd Haley’s time with the Cowboys as receivers coach. Copper jumped to New Orleans when Sean Payton became the head coach there, and Copper spent a portion of 2008 with the Saints before being released and signing with the Ravens.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:37 PM
47 for 489 and no TDs with 3 games missed is a great year?

Yet people scoff at Mark Bradley, who had 30 catches, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games. Oh, and he's 27.

Some Chiefs fans are just plain fucked up.

Reerun_KC
03-17-2009, 03:38 PM
I'd also be thinking I need to up my game big time at camp and in the pre season.

True Bowe needs to increase his trade value and no better way then have trash signed around you...


He steps up his game and he will get paid by someone somewhere and we will bring Brett Perriman in for a look...

Ultra Peanut
03-17-2009, 03:40 PM
If the Chiefs are going to sign an old WR why not make a play for Torry Holt?Because Engram is cheaper and likely just as useful.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 03:41 PM
Yet people scoff at Mark Bradley, who had 30 catches, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games. Oh, and he's 27.

Some Chiefs fans are just plain fucked up.

I thought Bradley played incredibly well before he got injured.

True Bowe needs to increase his trade value and no better way then have trash signed around you...


He steps up his game and he will get paid by someone somewhere and we will bring Brett Perriman in for a look...

Well have Dawson and Bell back on the field in NO TIME!!! :D

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:42 PM
Yet people scoff at Mark Bradley, who had 30 catches, 380 yards and 3 TD's in 8 games. Oh, and he's 27.

Some Chiefs fans are just plain fucked up.

Bradley was good in spots. Very good even.
He's not real reliable though. Far too injury prone.

KCKY-Fan4life
03-17-2009, 03:42 PM
I was hoping we were getting pace

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:43 PM
Bradley was good in spots. Very good even.
He's not real reliable though. Far too injury prone.

So let's just go ahead and a rely on a 36 year-old.

Wonderful.

:(

MTG#10
03-17-2009, 03:43 PM
Like it or not we are building the team the right way. This is how NE did it when Belichick got there. Sign a bunch of good special teamers/backups and draft your starters.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:44 PM
So let's just go ahead and a rely on a 36 year-old.

Wonderful.

:(

I don't think we're going to.
I think Engram's your Third Down guy... A #3.
Bradley could still be your starter.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:45 PM
I don't think we're going to.
I think Engram's your Third Down guy... A #3.
Bradley could still be your starter.

So if you keep 5:

Bowe
Bradley
Engram
Franklin
?

Who's your slot guy?

Mr. Flopnuts
03-17-2009, 03:45 PM
A press conference for these scrubs?

Engram is no scrub. He's done nothing but produce in Seattle. He'll be a nice veteran pick up for us.

Amnorix
03-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Keep in mind folks, it's a BB/SP mantra that the fastest and easiest way to get a team going in the right direction is to get the special teams to be truly special.

Field position impacts everything else.

Miles
03-17-2009, 03:47 PM
So if you keep 5:

Bowe
Bradley
Engram
Franklin
?

Who's your slot guy?

Engram spent a lot of time in the slot with Seattle.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 03:47 PM
So let's just go ahead and a rely on a 36 year-old.

Wonderful.

:(

See, this is what sub-par passing from sub-par Quarterback will get you in an air-heavy offense; injuries.

Everything that QB does effects EVERYONE. Don't throw the ball at Bowe and TG's fucking KNEES, and don't throw the motherfucker a foot beyond their vertical either!

God I fucking hate Thigpen! :cuss:

KCChiefsMan
03-17-2009, 03:47 PM
Engram >>> Jeff Webb
Beisel, whatever. good special teams I guess.
Copper????? depth or camp fodder.

I don't mind Engram even though he is old. Bowe/Bradley/Engram with some Franklin, it's not the best group ever but it may be decent. Could probably use a speedster.

soundmind
03-17-2009, 03:48 PM
Like it or not we are building the team the right way. This is how NE did it when Belichick got there. Sign a bunch of good special teamers/backups and draft your starters.

You know....by this logic....we apparently have no interest in signing a pass rush. Who the f*** are we gonna draft to get us a few sacks???

talastan
03-17-2009, 03:48 PM
Keep in mind folks, it's a BB/SP mantra that the fastest and easiest way to get a team going in the right direction is to get the special teams to be truly special.

Field position impacts everything else.

This

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 03:49 PM
So if you keep 5:

Bowe
Bradley
Engram
Franklin
?

Who's your slot guy?

Maybe we draft a WR or 2?

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:49 PM
You know....by this logic....we apparently have no interest in signing a pass rush. Who the f*** are we gonna draft to get us a few sacks???

You expect the Chiefs to compete next year, I see.

Good one.

Coogs
03-17-2009, 03:50 PM
Keep in mind folks, it's a BB/SP mantra that the fastest and easiest way to get a team going in the right direction is to get the special teams to be truly special.

Field position impacts everything else.


Keep in mind we are used to R2P2 on offense and the bend-and-break on defense.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
Engram had 1150 yards and 6 TD's just two years ago...

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
So if you keep 5:

Bowe
Bradley
Engram
Franklin
?

Who's your slot guy?

I think it'd make sense to draft another WR.
Somewhere in the middle to late rounds.

KCUnited
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
I think the dividends to these signings will be paid in the lockerroom to these young guys.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
These signings were good special teams will do good offense too. If you noticed the Pats & Cards recievers were yards after the catch recievers. Is Bradley a Yards After Catch guy? Copper was in New Orlenas I think Engram was too.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
Engram had 1150 yards and 6 TD's just two years ago...

That's a loooong time ago for a 36-year old WR.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
Engram had 1150 yards and 6 TD's just two years ago...

But he's extremely old for a WR, it's like a CB a guy can go from good to nothing in the snap of a finger at that age.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 03:51 PM
You know....by this logic....we apparently have no interest in signing a pass rush. Who the f*** are we gonna draft to get us a few sacks???

Yep the weakest part of this team is the D-Line so we can expect them to draft a couple D-lineman...hopefully or we are screwed

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 03:52 PM
Keep in mind we are used to R2P2 on offense and the bend-and-break on defense.

Ahhh...the Edwards / Cunther / Krumrie, "Wave 'em on Through"-defense!

Pure magic I tell's ya'! :banghead:

htismaqe
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
But he's extremely old for a WR, it's like a CB a guy can go from good to nothing in the snap of a finger at that age.

CAN is the operative word. It's not inevitable.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
In October 2006, Engram was diagnosed with Graves' disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graves-Basedow_disease). His subsequent accelerated heart rate, debilitating fatigue, and weight loss caused him to miss a significant amount of playing time during the 2006 season

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 03:53 PM
That's a loooong time ago for a 36-year old WR.
Well if you remember, the Seahawks passing game was in total disarray last season...and he was still easily their top guy...

We'll see...I think he'll be a pretty valuable slot guy...it's looking more and more like we're going to compete right away in the weak AFC West...

Pitt Gorilla
03-17-2009, 03:54 PM
This totally makes sense. Now, we can trade all three of them to the Lions for a 2nd round pick.

Wait, this isn't Madden 2003?

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
<sup id="cite_ref-2" class="reference">] (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bobby_Engram#cite_note-2)</sup> In October 2006, Engram was diagnosed with Graves' disease (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graves-Basedow_disease). His subsequent accelerated heart rate, debilitating fatigue, and weight loss caused him to miss a significant amount of playing time during the 2006 season

and then in 2007 he bounced back with the best year of his career, with 94 receptions, 1147 yards and 6 TD's...

(Thought I'd add that in there...)

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
That's a loooong time ago for a 36-year old WR.

Wow. We just signed a guy one year younger than me?

Yep; the Arrowhead Assisted Living Center is once again OPEN FOR BUSINESS! :doh!::banghead:

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 03:55 PM
anyone that isn't 25 doesn't work for Mecca...I assume Engram was pretty cheap...don't see how anyone could think of him as anything less than a solid signing.

Won't do anything to hurt Matt Cassel's progression.

Coogs
03-17-2009, 03:56 PM
Ahhh...the Edwards / Cunther / Krumrie, "Wave 'em on Through"-defense!

Pure magic I tell's ya'! :banghead:


:D Nice!

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 03:56 PM
Wow. We just a guy one year younger than me?

Yep; the Arrowhead Assisted Living Center is once again OPEN FOR BUSINESS! :doh!::banghead:

So you want everyone on the Chiefs to be 25?

Makes a lot of sense!

God you guys are stupid.

It's not like they signed Engram to be the #1 receiver...the savior of the franchise...he was a cheap veteran that can fill in and be a great slot guy for the Chiefs next season...nothing more, nothing less.

You guys are fucking stupid.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 03:57 PM
Wow. We just a guy one year younger than me?

Yep; the Arrowhead Assisted Living Center is once again OPEN FOR BUSINESS! :doh!::banghead:

I think the goal is to give the young guys more veteran leadership then they had last year.

KCUnited
03-17-2009, 03:58 PM
I can picture Beisel and Boiman up at Stroud's over a Family Chicken Dinner Plate talking technique and motor.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Engram avg the same yards per catch as Welker anyone know his yards after catch? Thats the most important thing in this offense

keg in kc
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Wow. Exciting.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Well if you remember, the Seahawks passing game was in total disarray last season...and he was still easily their top guy...

We'll see...I think he'll be a pretty valuable slot guy...it's looking more and more like we're going to compete right away in the weak AFC West...

I don't mind the signing at all.
I'm just saying the kind of numbers he put up 2 full seasons ago don't amount to much now. He's 36.

I think he could still contribute to this offense.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 03:59 PM
Yep the weakest part of this team is the D-Line so we can expect them to draft a couple D-lineman...hopefully or we are screwed

No way.

I just can't see that.

All the Chiefs have done for 7 fucking years is draft D-lineman while the rest of the roster went to pure and utter shit.

I will fucking go absolutely ballistic if the Chiefs spend draft choices (especially high draft choices) on D-lineman when they need THREE starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, RB and Linebackers.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:00 PM
anyone that isn't 25 doesn't work for Mecca...I assume Engram was pretty cheap...don't see how anyone could think of him as anything less than a solid signing.

Won't do anything to hurt Matt Cassel's progression.

Uh that isn't exactly true, I just think signing old guys at positions like WR and CB is asking for it those are young man positions.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
Wow. We just a guy one year younger than me?

Yep; the Arrowhead Assisted Living Center is once again OPEN FOR BUSINESS! :doh!::banghead:

He's still got gas left though.
I think he can contribute.
The Chiefs had better draft another WR though.

We're still very unstable at that spot.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
So you want everyone on the Chiefs to be 25?

Makes a lot of sense!

God you guys are stupid.

It's not like they signed Engram to be the #1 receiver...the savior of the franchise...he was a cheap veteran that can fill in and be a great slot guy for the Chiefs next season...nothing more, nothing less.

You guys are fucking stupid.

How do you know he was "cheap"?

EyePod
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
Beisel? Wow...
The Special Teams Unit is going to be the strength of this team.

*Smiles then realizes what he just said*
*Reaches for rusty butterknife*

Right now, I would love that. Our ST's were so bad last year!

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
No way.

I just can't see that.

All the Chiefs have done for 7 fucking years is draft D-lineman while the rest of the roster went to pure and utter shit.

I will fucking go absolutely ballistic if the Chiefs spend draft choices (especially high draft choices) on D-lineman when they need THREE starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, RB and Linebackers.

You really think RB's important?

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:01 PM
We're still very unstable at that spot.

Please name a spot where the Chiefs aren't unstable.

:D

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:02 PM
No way.

I just can't see that.

All the Chiefs have done for 7 ****ing years is draft D-lineman while the rest of the roster went to pure and utter shit.

I will ****ing go absolutely ballistic if the Chiefs spend draft choices (especially high draft choices) on D-lineman when they need THREE starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, RB and Linebackers.

How can you run a 3-4 when all your d-linemen suck?

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:02 PM
Right now, I would love that. Our ST's were so bad last year!

They were indeed.
I would've loved it more if we'd signed Justin Miller.

Right now we don't have a real answer on returns.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 04:02 PM
So you want everyone on the Chiefs to be 25?

Makes a lot of sense!

God you guys are stupid.

It's not like they signed Engram to be the #1 receiver...the savior of the franchise...he was a cheap veteran that can fill in and be a great slot guy for the Chiefs next season...nothing more, nothing less.

You guys are fucking stupid.

Okay first off, YOU; choke a fuckin' chode.

I think the goal is to give the young guys more veteran leadership then they had last year.

Now;

I understand the Veteran Leadership. That's fine. But 25 to 36 is a LONG stretch of time for an NFL player not sitting in the pocket named "Warner".
Leadership is all well and good, but how's about some production for the dollar?!

:shrug:

Basileus777
03-17-2009, 04:03 PM
Holt wants to play for a contender, I doubt he would even consider another rebuilding team.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:03 PM
You really think RB's important?

Yep. Don't you?

Charles couldn't stay healthy. Smith's coming off an ACL. LJ may or may not be with the team and even if he is, he's nearly 30.

The Chiefs had to use Dantrell Savage as a starter last year, and please, let's not compare him to Darren Sproles.

They definitely need help.

stevieray
03-17-2009, 04:03 PM
No way.

I just can't see that.

All the Chiefs have done for 7 ****ing years is draft D-lineman while the rest of the roster went to pure and utter shit.

I will ****ing go absolutely ballistic if the Chiefs spend draft choices (especially high draft choices) on D-lineman when they need THREE starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, RB and Linebackers.

you'll go ballistic..? is this before or after you say they'll suck again this year to infinity?

on the brighter side, you'll have the draft and the rest of the offseason to tell everyone how ballistic you feel...

The Poz
03-17-2009, 04:03 PM
Looks like it'll be a pre-season battle between:
C.J. Jones
Will Franklin
Jeff Webb
Devard Darling
Late round draft pick or undrafted free agent

... for that 5th spot.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 04:04 PM
How do you know he was "cheap"?

You think Pioli is going to spend a fortune on a 36 year old wide receiver? Lets use some common sense.

Tits McGee
03-17-2009, 04:04 PM
Did we sign Monty so he can retire as a Chief?
Does he have anything left in the tank?

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 04:04 PM
No way.

I just can't see that.

All the Chiefs have done for 7 fucking years is draft D-lineman while the rest of the roster went to pure and utter shit.

I will fucking go absolutely ballistic if the Chiefs spend draft choices (especially high draft choices) on D-lineman when they need THREE starting offensive lineman, a speed receiver, RB and Linebackers.

Ok but if they go to the 3-4 who that we have are going to play on the D-Line? Heck we still need them regardless because we had the worst D-line in NFL history.

I am not saying draft one high but I could see them using lower round picks to pick one or more.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:04 PM
How can you run a 3-4 when all your d-linemen suck?

How can you protect your $14 million dollar QB if your offensive line sucks?

This is the best year in decades for offensive lineman.

You don't ignore that, especially when it's a critical area of need.

You guys need to get over the fact that the Chiefs aren't going to suddenly compete in 2009.

It'll be 2010, at the VERY earliest.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:05 PM
Yep. Don't you?

Charles couldn't stay healthy. Smith's coming off an ACL. LJ may or may not be with the team and even if he is, he's nearly 30.

The Chiefs had to use Dantrell Savage as a starter last year, and please, let's not compare him to Darren Sproles.

They definitely need help.

Interesting Charles played in all 16 games.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 04:05 PM
Okay first off, YOU; choke a ****in' chode.



Now;

I understand the Veteran Leadership. That's fine. But 25 to 36 is a LONG stretch of time for an NFL player not sitting in the pocket named "Warner".
Leadership is all well and good, but how's about some production for the dollar?!

:shrug:

Engram was productive as a 35 year old...and he wasn't terrible last year all things considered in Seattle.

Don't be a fucking moron.

(Oh wait, that's a lot to ask from you...)

keg in kc
03-17-2009, 04:06 PM
The best year in decades for offensive linemen?

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Interesting Charles played in all 16 games.

He had an ankle injury for about half the year and frequently left games and didn't return.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Ok but if they go to the 3-4 who that we have are going to play on the D-Line? Heck we still need them regardless because we had the worst D-line in NFL history.

I am not saying draft one high but I could see them using lower round picks to pick one or more.

Who cares? The defensive and offensive problems aren't going to be solved in just one draft and offseason.

The Chiefs have an opportunity to solidify their offensive line for the next decade. I'd hate to see them waste that opportunity because they "need" a pass rusher who in all honesty, isn't there in the 2009 draft.

BryanBusby
03-17-2009, 04:06 PM
Print those Super Bowl tickets up right away.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
How can you protect your $14 million dollar QB if your offensive line sucks?

This is the best year in decades for offensive lineman.

You don't ignore that, especially when it's a critical area of need.

You guys need to get over the fact that the Chiefs aren't going to suddenly compete in 2009.

It'll be 2010, at the VERY earliest.

I agree the Chiefs need more on the O-line they'll find that in the draft. To say this Franchise shouldn't draft a d-linemen cause the last regime did is apples to oranges. This is a totally different team.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
Interesting Charles played in all 16 games.

In and out, pulled hamstring and all.

And if he was so healthy, why did Savage have a start and play a full game?

Did you not WATCH the games?

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
Yep. Don't you?

Charles couldn't stay healthy. Smith's coming off an ACL. LJ may or may not be with the team and even if he is, he's nearly 30.

The Chiefs had to use Dantrell Savage as a starter last year, and please, let's not compare him to Darren Sproles.

They definitely need help.

Honestly, I don't think it's a priority for the Chiefs.

I believe Johnson will be back with the team.
Charles is your backup.
Smith will be your #3 guy.

I think we're pretty solid there.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:07 PM
I agree the Chiefs need more on the O-line they'll find that in the draft. To say this Franchise shouldn't draft a d-linemen cause the last regime did is apples to oranges. This is a totally different team.

And this draft pretty much sucks for defense.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:08 PM
I agree the Chiefs need more on the O-line they'll find that in the draft. To say this Franchise shouldn't draft a d-linemen cause the last regime did is apples to oranges. This is a totally different team.

Well the truth to the matter is this is kind of a shitty defensive draft.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:08 PM
In and out, pulled hamstring and all.

And if he was so healthy, why did Savage have a start and play a full game?

Did you not WATCH the games?

I don't recall those injuries being real serious.
And I can only recall maybe two of them.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:08 PM
In and out, pulled hamstring and all.

And if he was so healthy, why did Savage have a start and play a full game?

Did you not WATCH the games?

Don't pull this shit. Savage didn't start a single game did YOU watch any of the games?

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:08 PM
Honestly, I don't think it's a priority for the Chiefs.

I believe Johnson will be back with the team.
Charles is your backup.
Smith will be your #3 guy.

I think we're pretty solid there.

Well, we're in total disagreement.

LJ - Cancer, may not be with the team.

Charles - Injury history, can't stay healthy.

Smith - ACL surgery and no top end speed.

Personally, I'd say that's a position that needs to be addressed. You can't do shit if you can't run the ball.

BryanBusby
03-17-2009, 04:09 PM
And this draft pretty much sucks for defense.

This is a pretty decent draft if you need linebackers. Oh hey, the Chiefs could use some starting quality Linebackers.

Pro Tip: Fan Legend Boomer Grigsby was the last LB the Chiefs have drafted in any round of the NFL draft.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:09 PM
Larry Johnsons a dipshit that shouldn't be on the team and Jamaal Charles is a change of pace back not a starter.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:10 PM
This is a pretty decent draft if you need linebackers. Oh hey, the Chiefs could use some starting quality Linebackers.

Pro Tip: Fan Legend Boomer Grigsby was the last LB the Chiefs have drafted in any round of the NFL draft.

What kind of LB's are you wanting...if you haven't noticed this team is going to likely be moving away from 4-3.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:10 PM
Well the truth to the matter is this is kind of a shitty defensive draft.

I agree but thats no the way I read what he said. There likely to take Curry at 3 though I think they should draft Monroe. I know we disagree on that.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:11 PM
Well, we're in total disagreement.

LJ - Cancer, may not be with the team.

Charles - Injury history, can't stay healthy.

Smith - ACL surgery and no top end speed.

Personally, I'd say that's a position that needs to be addressed. You can't do shit if you can't run the ball.

We're not in a position to pink-slip Johnson. That's a bad football move.
We're not going to get the right value for him. He'll be back with the team.

Charles played in 16 games this season.
He's smallish, but he's a great change-of-pace guy that can score from anywhere on the field.

Backs return from ACL injuries all the time. We're not counting on this guy. He's only going to be your #3 and I think he's more talented than that.

Even if we did do something here I wouldn't draft a RB.
I'd sign someone available in Free Agency.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:11 PM
I agree but thats no the way I read what he said. There likely to take Curry at 3 though I think they should draft Monroe. I know we disagree on that.

I still will never fathom has a traditional non rush backer can be thought of this high.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:12 PM
Don't pull this shit. Savage didn't start a single game did YOU watch any of the games?

Hey Dumbfuck,

Did you watch the San Diego game?

Dantrell Savage: 12 carries, 44 yards
Jamall Charles: 3 carries, 8 yards
Mike Cox: 1 carry, -2 yards
Tyler Thigpen: 2 carries, 26 yards

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
We're not in a position to pink-slip Johnson. That's a bad football move.
We're not going to get the right value for him. He'll be back with the team.

Charles played in 16 games this season.
He's smallish, but he's a great change-of-pace guy that can score from anywhere on the field.

Backs return from ACL injuries all the time. We're not counting on this guy. He's only going to be your #3 and I think he's more talented than that.

Even if we did do something here I wouldn't draft a RB.
I'd sign someone available in Free Agency.

Not in position? We aren't a contender you can win 5 games with or without Larry Johnson. You shouldn't keep dumbasses that act like douchebags around especially when you are a new regime just because he might help you win 1 more game.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
I still will never fathom has a traditional non rush backer can be thought of this high.

Well first off, Billay's a dumbfuck.

Secondly, all of the talking heads have him that high. Which in reality, doesn't mean anything.

Miles
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
In and out, pulled hamstring and all.

And if he was so healthy, why did Savage have a start and play a full game?

Did you not WATCH the games?

Yeah he seemed to be banged up for a long stretch of games.

Savage didn't start any games last season. Charles started the SD game and from what I could remember got hurt on his first carry.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:13 PM
Hey Dumb****,

Did you watch the San Diego game?

Dantrell Savage: 12 carries, 44 yards
Jamall Charles: 3 carries, 8 yards
Mike Cox: 1 carry, -2 yards
Tyler Thigpen: 2 carries, 26 yards

Why get so mad? Yea Savage played in the game but he didn't start the game.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:14 PM
Well first off, Billay's a dumb****.

Secondly, all of the talking heads have him that high. Which in reality, doesn't mean anything.

Do you even read? The consesus says the Chiefs will pick Curry at #3. I would go with a O-Linemen. Weren't you just arguing that we should draft an o-linemen?

KCtotheSB
03-17-2009, 04:14 PM
Bobby Engram should be a nice signing and at the very least, provide a nice slot receiver or #2 opposite Bowe (although at his ripe ol' age, I dunno how much more speed he possesses). However, I'm really glad to see Monty Beisel back. I always liked him when he was with the Chiefs earlier in his career as he really helped strenghten our special teams unit. If I'm not mistaken, wasn't he the person who blocked the punt against Dallas earlier in the season for the Cardinals...or was he the one who recovered it in the endzone?

Anyways, good to see him back. Wish I could comment on Copper. I seem to recall he was a wideout with the Saints...but I can't remember him in any specific instances where he stuck out for the life of me.....

stevieray
03-17-2009, 04:15 PM
Why get so mad? .

Because any move the Chiefs make brings out the hubris, and opens the door to bash the whole team.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:15 PM
I don't recall those injuries being real serious.
And I can only recall maybe two of them.

Charles had only 67 carries with 1 TD and 2 fumbles last year.

IMO, he's hardly a guy you can count on to be a starter.

He's a third down guy at best (at least until he can learn how to stay healthy).

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:16 PM
Why get so mad? Yea Savage played in the game but he didn't start the game.

He had to take the over-whelming majority of carries because Charles again proved that he couldn't stay healthy for 2 minutes into a game.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Not in position? We aren't a contender you can win 5 games with or without Larry Johnson. You shouldn't keep dumbasses that act like douchebags around especially when you are a new regime just because he might help you win 1 more game.

In a more traditional offense he can help you win football games.

Just letting a player walk who has still has the ability to play at a high level in this league is silly. If we can get a #3 for him I'd be all for trading him, but to just let him walk would be absolutely idiotic.

Pioli won't do that.
If he can't get the right value for the guy... He'll be back with the team.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Do you even read? The consesus says the Chiefs will pick Curry at #3. I would go with a O-Linemen. Weren't you just arguing that we should draft an o-linemen?

Not with the #3 overall.

The Chiefs should take anything they can get and move down as many times in the first round as possible while stock piling picks.

Curry at #3 would be a waste of money and a draft pick. Monroe or Smith would be even worse.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:17 PM
Charles had only 67 carries with 1 TD and 2 fumbles last year.

IMO, he's hardly a guy you can count on to be a starter.

He's a third down guy at best (at least until he can learn how to stay healthy).

He won't be our starter.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:18 PM
That Larry Johnson ship has sailed, he's an old RB that acts like a fuckup.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:19 PM
He won't be our starter.
That's been my point all along.

Then who's the guy carrying the ball, Mic?

LJ was for the most part, ineffective last year.

Smith is coming off an ACL tear and it wasn't like he was Emmitt Smith before the injury.

Charles can't stay healthy and doesn't have the body to be an every down back.

Hence the need for another RB.

wild1
03-17-2009, 04:19 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but does cutting Larry Johnson not equal significant salary savings? I asked this question before, and was told that his cap penalty would be negligable, and would save his salary against the cap this year and in future years.

No one will trade anything for a malcontent with off-the-field problems, motivation problems, and is disliked by his teammates. No one.

Therefore, we stand to gain the cap room and benefit from losing a disruptive player. We stand to lose the difference between Larry Johnson's production and his replacement's production.

It's a no-brainer. Cut him.

wild1
03-17-2009, 04:20 PM
As far as these signings go, I like it. WR and LB are positions where in recent years, the Chiefs have had guys playing significantly who would not be in the league otherwise.

We need veteran depth and now we are starting to build it.

KCtotheSB
03-17-2009, 04:20 PM
He won't be our starter.

I see Charles as being our "Lightning" in a "Thunder and Lightning" 2 RB tandem that a lot of NFL teams are adopting these days. He's not a starter, but more of a situation back. The real question in my mind is whether Larry Johnson will continue to be our "Thunder" or we go elsewhere.

BryanBusby
03-17-2009, 04:20 PM
Not with the #3 overall.

The Chiefs should take anything they can get and move down as many times in the first round as possible while stock piling picks.

Curry at #3 would be a waste of money and a draft pick. Monroe or Smith would be even worse.

So we should just draft a waffle I guess? I understand the arguments, but it's not like the Chiefs have exactly a wide variety of people to choose from. Reaching for someone like Orakpo would be awful.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:21 PM
Larry Johnson is not a team player, that's the bottom line.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:25 PM
Correct me if I am wrong, but does cutting Larry Johnson not equal significant salary savings?

$8.8 million if the Chiefs keep him.

$8.2 million if they cut or trade him.

Simply Red
03-17-2009, 04:26 PM
So if you keep 5:

Bowe
Bradley
Engram
Franklin
?

Who's your slot guy?

Minnis is in town, I hear he got on the Chief's jet. :(

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:26 PM
Then who's the guy carrying the ball, Mic?

LJ was for the most part, ineffective last year.

Behind a makeshift Offensive Line that you and I could've started on.
LJ's your starter.

Smith is coming off an ACL tear and it wasn't like he was Emmitt Smith before the injury.

What team has Emmitt Smith as their #3 guy?
If it comes down to your third RB you're already sunk anyway.

Charles can't stay healthy and doesn't have the body to be an every down back.

Hence the need for another RB.

I disagree with this bit about him being injury prone.
I recall a couple times where he got dinged, but he played in every game last year.

He's definitely not an every down back, but he doesn't need to be.

IF we do try to shore that position up I'd go find someone in Free Agency.
This isn't a big deal to me. RB's one of the easiest positions to replace in the NFL.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:27 PM
So we should just draft a waffle I guess? I understand the arguments, but it's not like the Chiefs have exactly a wide variety of people to choose from. Reaching for someone like Orakpo would be awful.

Um, I said to trade down as many times as possible. Regardless of the "value" chart.

Not with the #3 overall.

The Chiefs should take anything they can get and move down as many times in the first round as possible while stock piling picks.

Curry at #3 would be a waste of money and a draft pick. Monroe or Smith would be even worse.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:27 PM
$8.8 million if the Chiefs keep him.

$8.2 million if they cut or trade him.

Cutting him shouldn't even be an option.

BryanBusby
03-17-2009, 04:28 PM
Um, I said to trade down as many times as possible. Regardless of the "value" chart.

Even if they don't follow the value chart, who's going to trade up? Also your LJ figures are in reverse. It'd cost 8.2 to keep him and 8.8 to cut him.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:28 PM
Some people will never let go, replacing a running back is like changing razor blades.

wild1
03-17-2009, 04:29 PM
Cutting him shouldn't even be an option.

What redeeming value does he have? When he's played in the last two years, he hasn't been very good. His backups are not much, if anything, of a dropoff.

The productive Larry Johnson is a couple of years in the rearview.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:29 PM
Behind a makeshift Offensive Line that you and I could've started on.
LJ's your starter.



What team has Emmitt Smith as their #3 guy?
If it comes down to your third RB you're already sunk anyway.



I disagree with this bit about him being injury prone.
I recall a couple times where he got dinged, but he played in every game last year.

He's definitely not an every down back, but he doesn't need to be.

IF we do try to shore that position up I'd go find someone in Free Agency.
This isn't a big deal to me. RB's one of the easiest positions to replace in the NFL.

He was dinged up quite a bit. 67 carries in 16 games is just a little more than 4 times a game. And he couldn't stay healthy.

I don't know that a wise man would bet on a former 5th round draft choice coming off of ACL surgery to provide a valuable contribution. That's quite a bit of a stretch.

Counting on LJ to play at a high level (or even be a member of the team) is tenuous at best.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:31 PM
Even if they don't follow the value chart, who's going to trade up? Also your LJ figures are in reverse. It'd cost 8.2 to keep him and 8.8 to cut him.

Do I need to go into detail the various scenarios?

There's so many ifs but it "appears" that at least one of the QB's will be sitting there at #3 (if not both) and if you don't think that's enticing to a team like the Jets, Jaguars or 49ers, you haven't been following the league enough.

There should be plenty of opportunities for the Chiefs to trade down and I fully expect them to do so at least once.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 04:32 PM
Who cares? The defensive and offensive problems aren't going to be solved in just one draft and offseason.

The Chiefs have an opportunity to solidify their offensive line for the next decade. I'd hate to see them waste that opportunity because they "need" a pass rusher who in all honesty, isn't there in the 2009 draft.

Ok but I just don't see the same starters from last year on the D-Line being starters this year and unless we sign some from FA they are going to have to use the draft to address this position.

Could be wrong though

PGM
03-17-2009, 04:36 PM
What redeeming value does he have? When he's played in the last two years, he hasn't been very good. His backups are not much, if anything, of a dropoff.

The productive Larry Johnson is a couple of years in the rearview.

He had 4.5 yards per carry with absolute dog crap on the right side. It's not like he was terrible last year. That said if they trade him I could really care less.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:36 PM
What redeeming value does he have? When he's played in the last two years, he hasn't been very good. His backups are not much, if anything, of a dropoff.

The productive Larry Johnson is a couple of years in the rearview.

He can still play and be productive in the NFL.
Getting emotional about his problems off-the-field isn't smart.

If you're going to move him...move him, but make sure you're being properly compensated. He can still be very productive in this league.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:37 PM
He was dinged up quite a bit. 67 carries in 16 games is just a little more than 4 times a game. And he couldn't stay healthy.

He was underutilized in that offense.
I said that all year.

I don't know that a wise man would bet on a former 5th round draft choice coming off of ACL surgery to provide a valuable contribution. That's quite a bit of a stretch.

Who depends on the contribution of a Third RB?

Counting on LJ to play at a high level (or even be a member of the team) is tenuous at best.

There is no doubt in my mind that he can still play at a high level.
I think he'll be here.

I doubt seriously that the offers for him will be worth Pioli's time.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 04:39 PM
If the Chiefs aren't going to hold onto LJ what are they waiting for?

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:40 PM
What's the proper value for a 30 year old RB with an attitude problem?

bowener
03-17-2009, 04:40 PM
I read nothing into these signings other than camp fodder (competition) and special teams players, and possibly better quality depth. I dont care how old Engram is, I'd rather throw to him on 3rd and 12 than to Jeff Webb.

dirk digler
03-17-2009, 04:42 PM
What's the proper value for a 30 year old RB with an attitude problem?

I guess cut him other than that I don't see what the point is holding on to him unless they plan on keeping him.

Of course the Cards are doing the same thing to Edge.

PGM
03-17-2009, 04:43 PM
He can still play and be productive in the NFL.
Getting emotional about his problems off-the-field isn't smart.

If you're going to move him...move him, but make sure you're being properly compensated. He can still be very productive in this league.

People make fun of McIntosh, Jones, Niswanger, and company all the time. Why would it be surprsing that the running game was inconsistent? He still had a pretty good YPC even with that unit.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:43 PM
What's the proper value for a 30 year old RB with an attitude problem?

I think he warrants a #4 at the very least.

Simply Red
03-17-2009, 04:43 PM
That Larry Johnson ship has sailed, he's an old RB that acts like a ****up.

IT'S PAR FOR MECCA! ROFL

ChiefsCountry
03-17-2009, 04:43 PM
I called the Besiel signing. :)

Micjones
03-17-2009, 04:43 PM
People make fun of McIntosh, Jones, Niswanger, and company all the time. Why would it be surprsing that the running game was inconsistent?

It's not. Not at all.
Our line was awful.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:44 PM
I think he warrants a #4 at the very least.

You value aging RB's more than the NFL does, most teams already have a RB why would they give you anything for an old one with alot of miles not to mention his attitude...

PGM
03-17-2009, 04:45 PM
What's the proper value for a 30 year old RB with an attitude problem?

He really doesn't have any trade value. So, IMO they might as well keep him.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
So now RB is a positon we need to fill? What do you suggest drafting? Beanie Wells? He's durable like Charles.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:48 PM
He really doesn't have any trade value. So, IMO they might as well keep him.

Well I can't wait for his arbitrary suspension for being a moron during the season.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:49 PM
So now RB is a positon we need to fill? What do you suggest drafting? Beanie Wells? He's durable like Charles.

James Davis...

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:49 PM
How many games have the Chiefs won without LJ the past few years?

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:50 PM
James Davis...

Who's James Davis? I like Andre Brown. I think he's a projected 4-5th rounder.

ChiefsCountry
03-17-2009, 04:51 PM
If LJ wasnt a fucking moron it wouldnt be that bad to keep him. But he is one night at Blonde from being a dipshit and getting suspened again.

wild1
03-17-2009, 04:51 PM
How many games have the Chiefs won without LJ the past few years?

how many have they WON the past few years?

ChiefsCountry
03-17-2009, 04:51 PM
Who's James Davis?

A stud from Clemson who shared carries in college with another stud.

the Talking Can
03-17-2009, 04:51 PM
we spend 3 nickles on some bottom of the roster guys and people act like we signed Hitler......

Mecca
03-17-2009, 04:53 PM
Who's James Davis? I like Andre Brown. I think he's a projected 4-5th rounder.

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DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 04:53 PM
I think he warrants a #4 at the very least.

I think the most you're going to get for him is a 5th.

I'm thinking it'll be closer to a 6th.

PGM
03-17-2009, 04:54 PM
Well I can't wait for his arbitrary suspension for being a moron during the season.

He is a screwup off the field. No doubting that.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 04:55 PM
A stud from Clemson who shared carries in college with another stud.

Fuck yea I'd draft anyone from Clemson. They looked fast and athletic aginst Nebraska.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Some people will never let go, replacing a running back is like changing razor blades.

LMAO

Mecca my man, I am all of a sudden not upset about these signings. It's obvious we're saving $$$, and "The Man" is still missing a contract.

Why is this? :hmmm:
....

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 04:57 PM
Some people will never let go, replacing a running back is like changing razor blades.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/CRANKIT.jpg
<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/HTFCLMV3Cdc&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

NOW DANCE MOTHERFUCKERS!!!


http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/homeraxe.jpg
"Dooooo it"...

RedThat
03-17-2009, 05:05 PM
It's obvious these signings are meant to play significant roles on the team.

You have Beisel and Copper who aren't going to start, and are going to provide your team with a)depth b)special teams

Engram is not going to be a long term solution obviously, but what he does provide is veteran leadership who will give you a solid locker room presence and possibly at the very least you have a #3 WR who can play the slot, and provide good depth to your WR corps.

No reason to complain. Pioli is applying great strategy here, by addressing some of the concerns this team had prior to his arrival here. Let's face it, the special teams was not that good, the depth at most positions was pretty bad, and their was VERY little veteran leadership.

So, instead of complaining by saying aww that guy is old, what are we gonna do with a 36 year old WR? What are we gonna do with scrubs like Beisel and Copper. Do any of you even take the time to think of how really important it is to have significant role players on a team? Do any of you even stop to realize and think that PRACTICALLY every championship is filled with them! Do any of you realize that having role players are an integral part of a winning formula?

Micjones
03-17-2009, 05:05 PM
You value aging RB's more than the NFL does, most teams already have a RB why would they give you anything for an old one with alot of miles not to mention his attitude...

I don't think a #4's much to ask for a guy who can still produce at a high level. Especially for a team that's close to contending.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 05:09 PM
I don't think a #4's much to ask for a guy who can still produce at a high level. Especially for a team that's close to contending.

Which contending team doesn't have a RB and also wouldn't be more willing to draft a younger cheaper and much less worn player who most likely won't have attitude problems?

RB is a young mans position.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-17-2009, 05:13 PM
As long as they don't block someone with actual talent, I don't really give a shit either way.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 05:13 PM
LJ would be a perfect complement to Westbrooke plus he's cback home maybe he'd behave.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 05:16 PM
Which contending team doesn't have a RB and also wouldn't be more willing to draft a younger cheaper and much less worn player who most likely won't have attitude problems?

RB is a young mans position.

Some teams in the NFL prefer more immediate gratification.
I'm not saying that he'll be easy to trade. In fact, I've said the opposite.
That's why I think he'll remain in Kansas City.

Miles
03-17-2009, 05:18 PM
LJ would be a perfect complement to Westbrooke plus he's cback home maybe he'd behave.

Wouldn't the Eagles just draft a RB. Westy is getting up there in years himself and will eventually need to cut back his touches / be replaced.

Chocolate Hog
03-17-2009, 05:19 PM
Wouldn't the Eagles just draft a RB. Westy is getting up there in years himself and will eventually need to cut back his touches / be replaced.

No because there QB is older and there built to compete now.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 05:25 PM
No because there QB is older and there built to compete now.

Sorry, that's stupid.

The could find a running back in the first round or the 4th round to compliment and later replace Westbrook.

Westbrook was a 4th rounder and there are better RB's than LJ that could be had in the draft that are 8 years younger and without the attitude.

If they really want a RB to "win now", they'll take Knowshon Moreno in the first.

Mr. Flopnuts
03-17-2009, 05:29 PM
47 for 489 and no TDs with 3 games missed is a great year?

That was this season. He was talking about last season. In 07 he went 94 for 1147 with 6 TD's. That was the best year of his career. He was hurt last year. Does he come back and do what he did in 07? Or does he come back and do what he's done his entire career, and get you 650 yards and 2-3 TD's? He'll be a good role player on this team, and he'll provide some veteran leadership.

Miles
03-17-2009, 05:35 PM
Sorry, that's stupid.

The could find a running back in the first round or the 4th round to compliment and later replace Westbrook.

Westbrook was a 4th rounder and there are better RB's than LJ that could be had in the draft that are 8 years younger and without the attitude.

If they really want a RB to "win now", they'll take Knowshon Moreno in the first.

Yep. RB is one position where experience is hardly a big deal. I guess blocking tends to improve over time unless you are talking about LJ.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 05:46 PM
Then who's the guy carrying the ball, Mic?

LJ was for the most part, ineffective last year.

Smith is coming off an ACL tear and it wasn't like he was Emmitt Smith before the injury.

Charles can't stay healthy and doesn't have the body to be an every down back.

Hence the need for another RB.

Ineffective?

You're on crack.

LJ is still a playmaker...despite what anyone wants to think. He's a top 2 down back in the NFL...he's still an elite 1st down and 2nd down running back...pair him with Charles and we're fine at RB...

Too bad he's a malcontent...maybe if we put a winner on the field he'll go back to taking care of business.

I don't give a shit either way, like Mecca says...you can find another RB...but LJ is likely the best bet...behind a line he is a great runner...plain and simple.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 05:49 PM
Ineffective?

You're on crack.



ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 05:52 PM
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL

How was he ineffective?

You must not have watched the games in which he played...

He's as good of a 1st down/2nd down running back as anyone outside of Adrian Peterson...

He proved that last year...he's a playmaker.

He's also a distraction.

Hopefully the new management can fix that...either by ridding the organization of LJ or finding a way to utilize his talents by subtracting the distractions.

Mr. Krab
03-17-2009, 05:53 PM
I find it hard to believe that there weren't better options available. I suppose Beisel and copper are more special teams players and Engram is veteran to help teach and lead a bunch of young receivers. It's still disappointing.

Micjones
03-17-2009, 05:53 PM
Ineffective?

You're on crack.

LJ is still a playmaker...despite what anyone wants to think. He's a top 2 down back in the NFL...he's still an elite 1st down and 2nd down running back...pair him with Charles and we're fine at RB...

Too bad he's a malcontent...maybe if we put a winner on the field he'll go back to taking care of business.

I don't give a shit either way, like Mecca says...you can find another RB...but LJ is likely the best bet...behind a line he is a great runner...plain and simple.

I'm amazed by all this "he's washed up" stuff.
I know he's been a Grade A dickhead off the field, but come on...

Mecca
03-17-2009, 05:54 PM
I'm amazed by all this "he's washed up" stuff.
I know he's been a Grade A dickhead off the field, but come on...

Point to me all of the successful 400 carry 30+ year old RB's.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 05:58 PM
Point to me all of the successful 400 carry 30+ year old RB's.

Moot point. He didn't suffer one injury all year...that's out the window.

Point to me another back like Larry Johnson.

Played one year in high school...played one year in college.

He has WAY less ware on him than say...Clinton Portis...who is what? 27?

LJ showed last year that...when he gets some space...he's the SAME GUY as he was in 2005.

He was never a great goal to go runner...ever. The whole "power back" thing is sort of a myth...he's as much finesse as he is power...he operates best with space and in the 2nd level...he had several HUGE runs last year...I don't see how anyone thinks he lost a step.

The truth is...he's not running behind Roaf/Shields anymore...and he was playing in a retarded Mike Solari offense for two of those years...one in which he did manage to run for almost 1800 yards.

LJ still has productive football left in him...surround him with a winner and no bullshit management...and I think he can be a player.

We will see.

I don't care either way at this point...if he's traded, cut, killed...oh well.

I still think he can be a player though.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 05:59 PM
LJ has suffered ONE FLUKE foot injury and Mecca questions his durability?

So stupid.

LJ has proven to be one of the most durable backs...well...ever.

wild1
03-17-2009, 06:01 PM
Larry Johnson made a lot of money running through big holes.

So can anyone else.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 06:02 PM
LJ has proven to be one of the most durable backs...well...ever.


ROFL

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:02 PM
Larry Johnson has also, never listened to coaching, has whined for years, and frankly is a rather 1 dimensional player. He makes way to much money to be a 2 down back that doesn't block or receive all that well.

I personally wouldn't sign an RB to a 2nd contract unless he was my Kevin Faulk or something like that those guys have long life spans.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:03 PM
Larry Johnson made a lot of money running through big holes.

So can anyone else.

Whatever...

If you believe that you are truly dumb.

The fact that he is always healthy alone makes him a pretty good commodity when he's not being an asshole.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:03 PM
ROFL

How is this funny?

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:04 PM
Larry Johnson hasn't played 16 games 2 years in a row now.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:05 PM
Larry Johnson has also, never listened to coaching, has whined for years, and frankly is a rather 1 dimensional player. He makes way to much money to be a 2 down back that doesn't block or receive all that well.

I personally wouldn't sign an RB to a 2nd contract unless he was my Kevin Faulk or something like that those guys have long life spans.

I'm not disagreeing with him being overpaid.

That's done.

It's over.

It was a mistake.

But now that he's here...he's a pretty valuable 1st/2nd down back...25 carries a game...plain and simple.

Anyone who disagrees with that clearly doesn't watch Chiefs football. Look at what a little creative playcalling on offense did for LJ last year...he still has it. He isn't washed up...plain and simple.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:06 PM
Larry Johnson hasn't played 16 games 2 years in a row now.

Last year had NOTHING to do with durability.

The year before was a fluke injury...

Every other year, including college...his team could feed him the ball time and time again and could count on him being there next week, and the week after.

The dude almost got decapitated and he started the next week...how often is LJ on the injury list? Almost never.

I understand the hate for LJ but now you guys are questioning his durability?

JFC!

wild1
03-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Whatever...

If you believe that you are truly dumb.

The fact that he is always healthy alone makes him a pretty good commodity when he's not being an asshole.

1. When he's not being an asshole
2. When he's not suspended
3. When he's actually interested in playing hard
4. When he's healthy

If you combine all four of those things, yeah, he might be able to run for league average yards per carry again.

Of course that's like the whole solar system being in alignment

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:07 PM
Depends what your definition of washed up is...if Larry Johnson was a great guy and invaluable in the locker room and very well liked and a team leader this would be one thing but he's basically the complete opposite.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:13 PM
well Mecca we all know you have no capability of being objective when it comes to LJ...but for everyone else...his play after his suspension...and I'm not talking about statistics...I'm talking about actual performance...shows he still has plenty in the tank for this season...and beyond.

I don't care either way where he plays next year...but he still has value as a RB in the NFL.

Coogs
03-17-2009, 06:14 PM
But now that he's here...he's a pretty valuable 1st/2nd down back...25 carries a game...plain and simple.

Dude didn't run with heart. That is the lasting impression of him I had. Hell, even on his 70+ yard carry, I didn't see the passion of a football player looking to get to the endzone. It looked more like a "well shit, I'm in the open so I guess I have to keep running until somone catches up with me" rather than an "I am taking this to the house" type of run.

And I am not going to pour through the stats, but how many of those 1st and 2nd down carries resulted in 2nd and long and 3rd and long situations for our offense? Way more than it should have IMO.

Dude has no heart, and he has stated that publicly about being in KC.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:16 PM
I think you could get the same production, cheaper and a more team oriented player with James Davis but hey that's just me.

wild1
03-17-2009, 06:17 PM
well Mecca we all know you have no capability of being objective when it comes to LJ...but for everyone else...his play after his suspension...and I'm not talking about statistics...I'm talking about actual performance...shows he still has plenty in the tank for this season...and beyond.

I don't care either way where he plays next year...but he still has value as a RB in the NFL.

i wouldnt even give a second day draft pick for him. i could draft two guys for what you think he is worth and each would have an equal chance of being effective in the NFL. except those guys would be 22 or 23 and not 30

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:17 PM
Dude didn't run with heart. That is the lasting impression of him I had. Hell, even on his 70+ yard carry, I didn't see the passion of a football player looking to get to the endzone. It looked more like a "well shit, I'm in the open so I guess I have to keep running until somone catches up with me" rather than an "I am taking this to the house" type of run.

And I am not going to pour through the stats, but how many of those 1st and 2nd down carries resulted in 2nd and long and 3rd and long situations for our offense? Way more than it should have IMO.

Dude has no heart, and he has stated that publicly about being in KC.

ROFL

You've got to be kidding me.

People take their hatred out on the guy and come up with these conclusions. Plain and simple.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:18 PM
i wouldnt even give a second day draft pick for him. i could draft two guys for what you think he is worth and each would have an equal chance of being effective in the NFL. except those guys would be 22 or 23 and not 30

Cool. Not saying I would either.

And teams wouldn't trade a 3rd for Tony Gonzalez...but I wouldn't trade him at all.

Just because he doesn't have trade value, doesn't mean he doesn't have value.

He can still be a 1300 yard back...no doubt.

wild1
03-17-2009, 06:20 PM
his value is that you cut him and make an example out of him.

and everyone in the locker room is happier, and you saved 5-8 million this year, and your message is out. "don't be a bitch"

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 06:24 PM
his value is that you cut him and make an example out of him.

and everyone in the locker room is happier, and you saved 5-8 million this year, and your message is out. "don't be a bitch"

No, you don't save anything.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:25 PM
Considering all the comments about "the right" 53 players does anyone really think Larry Johnson fits that?

Coogs
03-17-2009, 06:26 PM
ROFL

You've got to be kidding me.

People take their hatred out on the guy and come up with these conclusions. Plain and simple.

I don't have any hatred. LJ plain did not run with the same heart and determination last season that he did on his tow 1700 yard seasons.
He started out looking like Adrian Peterson. Last year was nothing like that.

Tiger's Fan
03-17-2009, 06:27 PM
People are gonna be pretty bummed when LJ is the starting RB for this team come september, because he will be.

Coogs
03-17-2009, 06:29 PM
People are gonna be pretty bummed when LJ is the starting RB for this team come september, because he will be.

It happens all the time in the NFL. No biggie.

okiedokieokoye
03-17-2009, 06:31 PM
Maybe we draft a WR or 2?

CRABTREE!!!!

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:32 PM
Oh no...

RINGLEADER
03-17-2009, 06:32 PM
47 for 489 and no TDs with 3 games missed is a great year?

2007.

DaneMcCloud
03-17-2009, 06:33 PM
CRABTREE!!!!

Kill yourself

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:33 PM
2007.

Lets be fair though to a WR his age 1 year is an eternity, you can be fine and then done in the snap of a finger.

The Bad Guy
03-17-2009, 06:34 PM
It's the same usual suspects bitching about players every time now.

What the fuck is the big deal about Engram. Slot receivers with dependable hands are pretty valuable.

I think some of you bitch just to bitch.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 06:35 PM
I don't really care about Engram other than it's funny to see some people who went on and on about how it would be stupid to sign Holt like this move.

Messier
03-17-2009, 06:37 PM
I don't really care about Engram other than it's funny to see some people who went on and on about how it would be stupid to sign Holt like this move.

I don't know, with the lack of activity around Holt, maybe his knees are shot.

The Bad Guy
03-17-2009, 06:45 PM
I don't really care about Engram other than it's funny to see some people who went on and on about how it would be stupid to sign Holt like this move.

I wouldn't have complained about Holt either.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 07:32 PM
The one endearing trait that LJ possessed was the ability to punch that ball in to the end zone on a 5 yard or less red zone situation.
And guess what? That shit was NOWHERE to be seen in 2007 OR 2008.
( But please feel free to run right on over to the Great LJ-Defender Cop Out Of All Time; the O-line. Please! Please be predictable, and dumb as a fucking rock! I'll be disappointed in the members of the Chiefs Planet Kool-Aid Brain Trust if you don't! )

LJ is a "finesse back"? Put...the pipe...DOWN. Kolby fucking Smith had more shuck and jive on his WORST day of running than LJ has in the last two seasons.
Good God...

CRABTREE!!!!

And as for you; allow me to introduce you to the Planet n00b beverage of choice!

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/ANTIFREEZECOCKTAIL.png

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 07:57 PM
Considering all the comments about "the right" 53 players does anyone really think Larry Johnson fits that?

Did Corey Dillon fit until he went to New England?

I don't know...I'm a lenient person...if Haley says no, then no...if Haley gives him a shot, I'm willing to give LJ one more go around.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 07:58 PM
I don't really care about Engram other than it's funny to see some people who went on and on about how it would be stupid to sign Holt like this move.

Because Holt is going to get WR1 money...guaranteed...he'll get as much, if not more, than T.O.

Engram is going to get a fraction of that.

Totally different scenario.

Short Leash Hootie
03-17-2009, 08:01 PM
DCS you must not pay attention, because you are totally wrong.

LJ has never been a given in the red zone...ever. He's the most overrated short yardage back in the NFL...because he's really not that type of runner.

Priest Holmes, even in 2005, was ALWAYS better finding the end zone...always. LJ, despite the TD's he scored, was never a sure bet to get in there...he hated leaping the pile...he was never the best goal to go back...plain and simple.

And last year...if you were watching...not Marcus Fuckin' Allen is scoring with the way our line blocked in those situations...when we were 1st and Goal at the 1 I remember always being SURE we wouldn't score a TD...one time it took us 8 fucking downs and 2 penalties...

LJ has always been better between the 20s...but hey, what do I expect? You're a know-it-all idiot.

Darth CarlSatan
03-17-2009, 08:07 PM
DCS you must not pay attention, because you are totally wrong.

LJ has never been a given in the red zone...ever. He's the most overrated short yardage back in the NFL...because he's really not that type of runner.

Priest Holmes, even in 2005, was ALWAYS better finding the end zone...always. LJ, despite the TD's he scored, was never a sure bet to get in there...he hated leaping the pile...he was never the best goal to go back...plain and simple.

And last year...if you were watching...not Marcus Fuckin' Allen is scoring with the way our line blocked in those situations...when we were 1st and Goal at the 1 I remember always being SURE we wouldn't score a TD...one time it took us 8 fucking downs and 2 penalties...

LJ has always been better between the 20s...but hey, what do I expect? You're a know-it-all idiot.

Well in that case, he sure sounds like a keeper! :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Dylan
03-17-2009, 08:10 PM
Enjoy...


Thursday, December 27, 2007. Not one member of the New England Patriots carries the highest salary-cap figure at his position. Or the second. Or third. Or fourth.

Asante Samuel has the fifth-highest number among NFL cornerbacks. Richard Seymour ranks ninth at defensive end. Rosevelt Colvin is the No. 8 linebacker. Tom Brady is 10th at quarterback. No other Patriot is in the top ten, and Vince Wilfork is 56th among defensive tackles.

But then the Patriots don't live on the highest draft picks, either. At least not their own. They have not had a pick among the top five in the first round since Willie McGinest (fourth) in 1994. Seymour was sixth in 2001.

None of their other first-round picks has been in the top 10, yet the Patriots have gotten value from every first-rounder since the 2000 draft, when they didn't have one. That was a decent deal, though they gave the Jets that selection in exchange for Bill Belichick.

Tom Brady, of course, was the 199th pick in the '99 draft.

Despite all that, the Patriots have remained in business.

On Saturday night, two of the three major networks will show the same game, New England's bid for 16-0 against the Giants, and that hasn't happened since the original Super Bowl.

Why not? It's Neil Armstrong stuff. No one's ever done it.

The moral is too clear for most muddling NFL teams around them to read it.
A few great men don't win. In fact, they bloat the salary cap. When they get hurt, it sparks panic.

A lot of good men do.

Six Patriots have rushed for touchdowns. Eight have caught touchdowns. Six have caught 30 or more passes, on up to Wes Welker's 101. Twelve have sacked quarterbacks. No one, besides Brady, is asked to do too much. But something is demanded of everyone.

"They'll bring a guy in for 10, 15 snaps a game," said Carl Peterson, president of the Kansas City Chiefs. "They never ask a guy to do more than he's capable of. Then they'll come up with something new for every opponent. It won't be a whole new formation or scheme, it'll be a tweak here or there, a new look, something that surprises. And no coaching staff does a better job of changing those looks during a game but it only works because they're practiced it."

Kevin Faulk is the Patriots in microcosm. He came in '99, during Pete Carroll's time. This season he ran 60 times and caught 39 balls, for a total of 586 yards. He has at least 21 catches in his past eight seasons.

He also is the highest-paid New England running back. There are 22 NFL backs with a higher cap figure.

"They identify what they need," said A.J. Smith, San Diego's general manager. "Last year it was receivers. They traded a second and a seventh (pick) to Miami for Welker. Miami had to be ecstatic. Welker was undrafted. Talk about increasing his value. But the Patriots saw something in him."

Actually, the Chargers first signed Welker after the 2004 draft but waived him in mid-September.

The Patriots traded a fourth-round pick for Randy Moss, who was wearing several scarlet letters in Oakland. Moss has 92 catches, 21 for touchdowns. Moss took a $5 million pay cut, to $2.5 million.

"I honestly didn't know what they were doing," Peterson said. "We play Oakland twice a year. I'd seen Moss."

"But this is what happens with winning organizations," Smith said. "Players are lining up to go there."

What do Belichick and General Manager Scott Pioli know and when did they learn it?

They like big-stadium college players and hardly ever trifle with sleepers. Twenty-three Patriots played at USC, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, Texas A&M, Michigan, Florida, Nebraska and Miami.

And the players know that Belichick and Pioli rank sentiment somewhere below sediment.

Deion Branch had been a Super Bowl MVP, but when he wanted rock-star money he wound up in Seattle (for a first-round pick). Lawyer Milloy was ruthlessly cut before a season opener with Buffalo, which the Pats lost, 31-0. New England went 14-2 and won a Super Bowl five months later.

"They don't just look at the salary cap for this year, they're always planning for the years to come," Smith said. "I guarantee they already have a plan for 2009 and beyond."

And, after the green room is emptied and the draft goes into lightning-round mode, Pioli begins dancing on everyone else's head. Eight starters were picked in rounds 3-5.

"What they have done," Smith said, "is incredible. If they go 19-0 I think there's no question they're the best team ever."

Yeah. Until next year, when the Patriots have the eighth pick in the draft. That's a gift from San Francisco, for the pick that became tackle Joe Staley last year.

The Patriots have no problem shopping for greatness. They just know it often hides, at half-price, under a pile of goodness.



Gotta go -- The Real Housewives of New York City is on!

DaWolf
03-17-2009, 09:13 PM
Thanks for posting that, good read...

Enjoy...


Thursday, December 27, 2007. Not one member of the New England Patriots carries the highest salary-cap figure at his position. Or the second. Or third. Or fourth.

Asante Samuel has the fifth-highest number among NFL cornerbacks. Richard Seymour ranks ninth at defensive end. Rosevelt Colvin is the No. 8 linebacker. Tom Brady is 10th at quarterback. No other Patriot is in the top ten, and Vince Wilfork is 56th among defensive tackles.

But then the Patriots don't live on the highest draft picks, either. At least not their own. They have not had a pick among the top five in the first round since Willie McGinest (fourth) in 1994. Seymour was sixth in 2001.

None of their other first-round picks has been in the top 10, yet the Patriots have gotten value from every first-rounder since the 2000 draft, when they didn't have one. That was a decent deal, though they gave the Jets that selection in exchange for Bill Belichick.

Tom Brady, of course, was the 199th pick in the '99 draft.

Despite all that, the Patriots have remained in business.

On Saturday night, two of the three major networks will show the same game, New England's bid for 16-0 against the Giants, and that hasn't happened since the original Super Bowl.

Why not? It's Neil Armstrong stuff. No one's ever done it.

The moral is too clear for most muddling NFL teams around them to read it.
A few great men don't win. In fact, they bloat the salary cap. When they get hurt, it sparks panic.

A lot of good men do.

Six Patriots have rushed for touchdowns. Eight have caught touchdowns. Six have caught 30 or more passes, on up to Wes Welker's 101. Twelve have sacked quarterbacks. No one, besides Brady, is asked to do too much. But something is demanded of everyone.

"They'll bring a guy in for 10, 15 snaps a game," said Carl Peterson, president of the Kansas City Chiefs. "They never ask a guy to do more than he's capable of. Then they'll come up with something new for every opponent. It won't be a whole new formation or scheme, it'll be a tweak here or there, a new look, something that surprises. And no coaching staff does a better job of changing those looks during a game but it only works because they're practiced it."

Kevin Faulk is the Patriots in microcosm. He came in '99, during Pete Carroll's time. This season he ran 60 times and caught 39 balls, for a total of 586 yards. He has at least 21 catches in his past eight seasons.

He also is the highest-paid New England running back. There are 22 NFL backs with a higher cap figure.

"They identify what they need," said A.J. Smith, San Diego's general manager. "Last year it was receivers. They traded a second and a seventh (pick) to Miami for Welker. Miami had to be ecstatic. Welker was undrafted. Talk about increasing his value. But the Patriots saw something in him."

Actually, the Chargers first signed Welker after the 2004 draft but waived him in mid-September.

The Patriots traded a fourth-round pick for Randy Moss, who was wearing several scarlet letters in Oakland. Moss has 92 catches, 21 for touchdowns. Moss took a $5 million pay cut, to $2.5 million.

"I honestly didn't know what they were doing," Peterson said. "We play Oakland twice a year. I'd seen Moss."

"But this is what happens with winning organizations," Smith said. "Players are lining up to go there."

What do Belichick and General Manager Scott Pioli know and when did they learn it?

They like big-stadium college players and hardly ever trifle with sleepers. Twenty-three Patriots played at USC, Georgia, Tennessee, LSU, Texas A&M, Michigan, Florida, Nebraska and Miami.

And the players know that Belichick and Pioli rank sentiment somewhere below sediment.

Deion Branch had been a Super Bowl MVP, but when he wanted rock-star money he wound up in Seattle (for a first-round pick). Lawyer Milloy was ruthlessly cut before a season opener with Buffalo, which the Pats lost, 31-0. New England went 14-2 and won a Super Bowl five months later.

"They don't just look at the salary cap for this year, they're always planning for the years to come," Smith said. "I guarantee they already have a plan for 2009 and beyond."

And, after the green room is emptied and the draft goes into lightning-round mode, Pioli begins dancing on everyone else's head. Eight starters were picked in rounds 3-5.

"What they have done," Smith said, "is incredible. If they go 19-0 I think there's no question they're the best team ever."

Yeah. Until next year, when the Patriots have the eighth pick in the draft. That's a gift from San Francisco, for the pick that became tackle Joe Staley last year.

The Patriots have no problem shopping for greatness. They just know it often hides, at half-price, under a pile of goodness.



Gotta go -- The Real Housewives of New York City is on!

splatbass
03-17-2009, 10:35 PM
Who cares? The defensive and offensive problems aren't going to be solved in just one draft and offseason.

The Chiefs have an opportunity to solidify their offensive line for the next decade. I'd hate to see them waste that opportunity because they "need" a pass rusher who in all honesty, isn't there in the 2009 draft.

I agree with this.

-King-
03-17-2009, 11:01 PM
Wilfork is the 56th most paid D tackle?

Jaw meet floor.

Seriously, that has to be one of the most underpaid players in the league. Unless they made a new contract since that article was released which is likely since that article is kind of old.

Mecca
03-17-2009, 11:06 PM
Wilfork is the 56th most paid D tackle?

Jaw meet floor.

Seriously, that has to be one of the most underpaid players in the league. Unless they made a new contract since that article was released which is likely since that article is kind of old.

He's still on his rookie deal...they're going to have to pay him soon.

KcFanInGA
03-17-2009, 11:32 PM
Engram avg the same yards per catch as Welker anyone know his yards after catch? Thats the most important thing in this offense

If this is true, then I totally agree.

Blick
03-18-2009, 12:01 AM
It's good to improve special teams and Engram is solid for an old WR.

RB isn't a big need for me. Bring in some undrafted FA's or maybe take a guy late.

Our RB's will look a lot better behind a line that doesn't look like a bag full of mashed up asshole.

DaneMcCloud
03-18-2009, 12:06 AM
It's good to improve special teams and Engram is solid for an old WR.

He's solidly old. Other than that, I wouldn't expect much.

RB isn't a big need for me. Bring in some undrafted FA's or maybe take a guy late.

I disagree for obvious reasons. Which UDFA's do you think would make an impact?

Our RB's will look a lot better behind a line that doesn't look like a bag full of mashed up asshole.

As much as the line sucked, Kolby Smith is coming off an ACL, Charles has injury issues and LJ is "old" for a RB.

An improved line isn't going to cure those ills.

Darth CarlSatan
03-18-2009, 12:16 AM
It's good to improve special teams and Engram is solid for an old WR.

RB isn't a big need for me. Bring in some undrafted FA's or maybe take a guy late.

Our RB's will look a lot better behind a line that doesn't look like a bag full of mashed up asshole.

He's solidly old. Other than that, I wouldn't expect much.



I disagree for obvious reasons. Which UDFA's do you think would make an impact?



As much as the line sucked, Kolby Smith is coming off an ACL, Charles has injury issues and LJ is "old" for a RB.

An improved line isn't going to cure those ills.


I was watching a VT Hokie game around late September or early October, and they had given the nod to a freshman RB to take the job.

This kid ran with the fire, the anger, the shuck and jive, and most of all; the smarts. They did a lot of overhead-shot replays, and this kid was finding holes and making plays every time he got the ball.
I can't remember his name, but his play was exceptional.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-18-2009, 12:54 AM
Because Holt is going to get WR1 money...guaranteed...he'll get as much, if not more, than T.O.

Engram is going to get a fraction of that.

Totally different scenario.

If Torry Holt gets 6.5 million a year, I will eat a roach.

Blick
03-18-2009, 01:08 AM
He's solidly old. Other than that, I wouldn't expect much.

I disagree for obvious reasons. Which UDFA's do you think would make an impact?

As much as the line sucked, Kolby Smith is coming off an ACL, Charles has injury issues and LJ is "old" for a RB.

An improved line isn't going to cure those ills.

I don't think anyone is expecting much from Engram.

I'll let you know about UDFA's when the draft is over. I also said that they could take a guy later in the draft. I'd like to address the offensive line, front 7, and WR before RB, though.

Charles can be dangerous if he can stay healthy. Smith is a question mark, but talented if his knee is strong. We don't know how LJ will perform or if he'll even be on the team. I agree that there are question marks surroundng our RB's, but there are bigger question marks at other positions.

In addition, I don't really like this draft for RB's. I think we should load up on O-linemen this year since the draft is so rich at that position and see what our RB's can do.

Mecca
03-18-2009, 01:12 AM
If Charles can learn how to be a top flight receiving back then he can be a real weapon...until then I'm not overly sure what he is other than fast.

Darth CarlSatan
03-18-2009, 01:17 AM
If Charles can learn how to be a top flight receiving back then he can be a real weapon...until then I'm not overly sure what he is other than fast.

You know what? We just need a whole new thing on offense. How awesome would it be for Haley to mine the archives, look at what Stram did in terms of creating uncertainty before the snap, and take it to a whole new level?

You put something like that with total smash-mouth defense on the field; you're goin' to the fucking dance sooner rather than later.

bdeg
03-18-2009, 01:17 AM
Did Harrison's play really drop off that dramatically that he can't help any teams, or is he just being stubborn in contract negotiations?

evolve27
03-18-2009, 01:30 AM
excellent signings

Mecca
03-18-2009, 01:31 AM
Did Harrison's play really drop off that dramatically that he can't help any teams, or is he just being stubborn in contract negotiations?

Marvin Harrison probably still thinks he should be paid and he's probably being picky about what teams he'll play for.

Blick
03-18-2009, 01:46 AM
I think Charles can be exactly what Jerious Norwood is for Atlanta.

Maybe James Davis can be our Michael Turner.

Darth CarlSatan
03-18-2009, 01:58 AM
I think Charles can be exactly what Jerious Norwood is for Atlanta.

Maybe James Davis can be our Michael Turner.

I think Charles is a TRUE tailback if you put a fullback in front of him that can run just as smart, and do more than block.

When I started playing football as a kid, I wanted to be an RB because of Walter Payton. And the thing was, even though we might run a 32-base, I always had the tailback behind me, or on either side of me, to play a support role when it was my time to move, and vice-versa.

You're gonna' lose one receiver by using the two back set, but if planned and executed properly; you'll more than make up the yardage while being even MORE in control of the clock.

Blick
03-18-2009, 02:03 AM
Yeah, I miss the T-Rich days. I'd love it if the Chiefs had a real Fullback again.

Darth CarlSatan
03-18-2009, 02:14 AM
Yeah, I miss the T-Rich days. I'd love it if the Chiefs had a real Fullback again.

I'm curious as all hell to see what Haley can do with a legitimate running game.

I'm curious to see if he'll truly TRY to establish one. He barely used James, and when he did the results were not very spectacular.

TREX
03-18-2009, 03:01 AM
Maybe we draft a WR or 2?
Maclin would be a good pick for a slot reciever/ST punt and kickoff return man.

Mecca
03-18-2009, 03:17 AM
Maclin would be a good pick for a slot reciever/ST punt and kickoff return man.

Would you like to take a slot WR/return man with a top 5 pick?

StcChief
03-18-2009, 06:00 AM
47 for 489 and no TDs with 3 games missed is a great year? depends on his contract. He might be camp fodder.

raybec 4
03-18-2009, 07:47 AM
If Torry Holt gets 6.5 million a year, I will eat a roach.

If I get pulled over on the way home from work, I too will eat a roach.

KcFanInGA
03-18-2009, 07:06 PM
Moot point. He didn't suffer one injury all year...that's out the window.

Point to me another back like Larry Johnson.

Played one year in high school...played one year in college.

He has WAY less ware on him than say...Clinton Portis...who is what? 27?

LJ showed last year that...when he gets some space...he's the SAME GUY as he was in 2005.

He was never a great goal to go runner...ever. The whole "power back" thing is sort of a myth...he's as much finesse as he is power...he operates best with space and in the 2nd level...he had several HUGE runs last year...I don't see how anyone thinks he lost a step.

The truth is...he's not running behind Roaf/Shields anymore...and he was playing in a retarded Mike Solari offense for two of those years...one in which he did manage to run for almost 1800 yards.

LJ still has productive football left in him...surround him with a winner and no bullshit management...and I think he can be a player.

We will see.

I don't care either way at this point...if he's traded, cut, killed...oh well.

I still think he can be a player though.

Amen. People will say Larry is not a finesse back, but if you watch him when he runs, its smooth.

milkman
03-18-2009, 07:17 PM
Amen. People will say Larry is not a finesse back, but if you watch him when he runs, its smooth.

The problem with LJ is that he is neither a finesse back, nor a power back.

He lacks patience and vision, and he no longer lowers his shoulder and puts a hit on the DBs when he gets into the second level.

What he is, is a pussy.

Darth CarlSatan
03-18-2009, 07:27 PM
The problem with LJ is that he is neither a finesse back, nor a power back.

He lacks patience and vision, and he no longer lowers his shoulder and puts a hit on the DBs when he gets into the second level.

What he is, is a pussy.

REP, and thank-YOU!:thumb:

Simply Red
03-18-2009, 09:13 PM
Sorry, that's stupid.

The could find a running back in the first round or the 4th round to compliment and later replace Westbrook.

Westbrook was a 4th rounder and there are better RB's than LJ that could be had in the draft that are 8 years younger and without the attitude.

If they really want a RB to "win now", they'll take Knowshon Moreno in the first.

He's a badass, I think he had a knee late issue last season. IIRC

TREX
03-19-2009, 03:26 AM
Would you like to take a slot WR/return man with a top 5 pick?
Maclin would fill two needs.Someone who is a threat to score and shortens the field on STs.Plus an exellent slot reciever.The Chiefs punt and kickoff returns have been pretty bad to awful lately.Field position is huge.So yes-I would draft Maclin with my first pick.