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KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 05:26 PM
Who does Chiefsplanet want? Seems the planet is pretty even at this point.

Thig Lyfe
03-21-2009, 05:43 PM
Stephen Curry

unlurking
03-21-2009, 05:44 PM
Stephen Curry
Foxy Brown

L.A. Chieffan
03-21-2009, 05:45 PM
i don't really like curry yet I love spicy food, weird huh?

keg in kc
03-21-2009, 06:01 PM
Tim Curry or Bobby Brown?

MTG#10
03-21-2009, 06:02 PM
Damn I voted for Curry but meant Brown. I still hope we take Raji though.

ncCHIEFfan
03-21-2009, 06:03 PM
Both of these guys are great college players. No one will be worth the #3 pick so I would like to see either. Just hopfully we now have coaches that can coach UP the talent!!!

evolve27
03-21-2009, 06:07 PM
Damn I voted for Curry but meant Brown. I still hope we take Raji though.

Epic Failure.

DaneMcCloud
03-21-2009, 06:08 PM
I want a 7th-15th first round pick, a second round pick and a fifth round pick.

keg in kc
03-21-2009, 06:10 PM
Epic Failure....I was out last night, there was this really hot brunette at the bar, but I made a pass at a so-so blonde instead, flamed out and ended up taking a manly-looking redhead home. Then found out later it was a transvestite.

MTG#10
03-21-2009, 06:18 PM
:LOL:

SBK
03-21-2009, 06:21 PM
I want a 7th-15th first round pick, a second round pick and a fifth round pick.

I want Stafford at 3 and a mid first rounder for Cassel. Since I probably won't get that your offer will do. :D

RJ
03-21-2009, 06:31 PM
The Planet faithful have convinced me that if we can't trade down from #3 then we should just pass.

milkman
03-21-2009, 06:38 PM
Where is the "neither" option?

However, if our choice is between Brown and Curry and there aren't any better options, then Brown, easily.

PRIEST
03-21-2009, 06:40 PM
Brown over Curry

bdeg
03-21-2009, 06:47 PM
Poll should be between Brown and Raji.

Although it looks like Curry's winning, guess I spoke too soon.

milkman
03-21-2009, 06:50 PM
Although it looks like Curry's winning

Idiots.

58-4ever
03-21-2009, 06:52 PM
For what we need (a pure pass rusher) I think Brown is the better option. His value may put him in the 6-10 range. But, I think it wouldn't be bad to reach on him.

CrazyHorse
03-21-2009, 06:56 PM
Idiots.


jackoff.

ROFL

bdeg
03-21-2009, 06:58 PM
For what we need (a pure pass rusher) I think Brown is the better option. His value may put him in the 6-10 range. But, I think it wouldn't be bad to reach on him.

People forget that Mayo was considered by most to be a fringe first-rounder last year before Pioli took him at 10.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 07:16 PM
Brown and Curry together is more I like to be honest. :) not gay :) called it.

KCChiefsMan
03-21-2009, 07:17 PM
chicken curry with brown rice plz

DeezNutz
03-21-2009, 07:20 PM
We need to try to replace Donnie Edwards, so Curry would make a lot of sense.

I'm pretty sure that even though he excels in rushing the passer, Curry can be taught to cover well, too.

If Curry is already off the board, we could also think about shoring up the RT spot.

Thig Lyfe
03-21-2009, 07:26 PM
We need to try to replace Donnie Edwards, so Curry would make a lot of sense.

I'm pretty sure that even though he excels in rushing the passer, Curry can be taught to cover well, too.

If Curry is already off the board, we could also think about shoring up the RT spot.

I hope Beanie Wells is still there at #3.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 07:29 PM
LMAO You know what position scores the most points? We really need to solidify the kicker spot with that pick.

I hear this kid from USC can tackle too. Double-Threat!!!

keg in kc
03-21-2009, 07:30 PM
I wish we'd have traded #3 for a coach. Players are overrated.

KCChiefsMan
03-21-2009, 07:30 PM
I'll take BJ Raji if we want to switch to a 3-4. Either him or Dorsey has to work out, it has to! and if both work out somehow GREAT!

bdeg
03-21-2009, 07:31 PM
I wish we'd have traded #3 for a coach. Players are overrated.

Who's the lucky bastard that signed Herm? Any chance we could pry him away?

Shame he got mad and left, but if we traded for him he'd have to come back!!!

keg in kc
03-21-2009, 07:33 PM
Who's the lucky bastard that signed Herm? Any chance we could pry him away?I was hoping for Bill Cowher with Mike Shanahan as OC.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 07:36 PM
That would've been sick. I won't be surprised if Haley turns out to be just as great a coach as those two, if Pioli's record is any indication.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 07:52 PM
We need to try to replace Donnie Edwards, so Curry would make a lot of sense.

I'm pretty sure that even though he excels in rushing the passer, Curry can be taught to cover well, too.

If Curry is already off the board, we could also think about shoring up the RT spot.

Curry is better in coverage than he is at rushing the passer. He is the best cover LB in the draft this year, and hes a guy that fights through blocks instead of trying to go around a blocker. I choose Curry because he is the type of leader a defense like ours really needs. Hes very talented and I believe he will only get better.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 07:54 PM
I'll take BJ Raji if we want to switch to a 3-4. Either him or Dorsey has to work out, it has to! and if both work out somehow GREAT!

I love Raji, but I dont like us drafting DT in the top 5 two years in a row. Raji isnt worth the #3 spot IMO....lets pray he doesnt fall into Denvers lap, because he might engulf Josh McDaniels

bdeg
03-21-2009, 07:54 PM
Vrabel's a leader, and that post was a joke.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 08:01 PM
Vrabel's a leader, and that post was a joke.

only as much of a joke as your bias is towards Everette Brown.

I wont bash Everette Brown because he will be a good player in the NFL. But your entirely too wrapped around Brown that you havent taken the time to look around at the other talent in this years draft that is better than Everette.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 08:05 PM
I've said it's between Brown and Raji depending on how the team evaluates those two and Dorsey. I was "wrapped around" him because he's good. I made a point of showing how good I thought he was because I thought he was undervalued. He was rated around #15, and now the Chiefs are talking to him. You'd rather have Curry?

milkman
03-21-2009, 08:06 PM
only as much of a joke as your bias is towards Everette Brown.

I wont bash Everette Brown because he will be a good player in the NFL. But your entirely too wrapped around Brown that you havent taken the time to look around at the other talent in this years draft that is better than Everette.

Maybe you didn't understand that the post he was referring to as a joke is the Deetz Nutz post you quoted.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 08:09 PM
I've said it's between Brown and Raji depending on how the team evaluates those two and Dorsey. I was "wrapped up on him" because he's good. He was rated around #15, and now the Chiefs are talking to him.

Is he worth #3 to you? I would be very open to drafting him if we where able to trade back to somewhere around 8 or 9, and possibly pick up an extra 4th or 3rd round pick. #3 is to high IMO to be drafting Brown, but that doesnt mean I dont think he will be a good player, because I have high hopes that he probably will.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 08:10 PM
Maybe you didn't understand that the post he was referring to as a joke is the Deetz Nutz post you quoted.

ah damn. ;) sorry bout that. I guess thats why I love the quote machine.

keg in kc
03-21-2009, 08:10 PM
Is he worth #3 to you? I would be very open to drafting him if we where able to trade back to somewhere around 8 or 9, and possibly pick up an extra 4th or 3rd round pick. #3 is to high IMO to be drafting Brown, but that doesnt mean I dont think he will be a good player, because I have high hopes that he probably will.I'd rather we trade down, but if we can't, and we have to take a player at 3, Brown would be at the top of my list, over Raji and Curry.

I think we need as many picks as possible, though.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 08:11 PM
Is he worth #3 to you? I would be very open to drafting him if we where able to trade back to somewhere around 8 or 9, and possibly pick up an extra 4th or 3rd round pick. #3 is to high IMO to be drafting Brown, but that doesnt mean I dont think he will be a good player, because I have high hopes that he probably will.

That's exactly what I said(except I think if we can't trade down he's the guy) if you go look up my thread titled everette brown in the draft forum(it's old). And Milkman's right, sorry if there was some confusion.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 08:13 PM
I think we need as many picks as possible, though.

no questioning that.

KCrockaholic
03-21-2009, 08:19 PM
That's exactly what I said(except I think if we can't trade down he's the guy) if you go look up my thread titled everette brown in the draft forum(it's old). And Milkman's right, sorry if there was some confusion.

Its all good.

chiefs1111
03-21-2009, 08:23 PM
Brown

RedThat
03-21-2009, 08:46 PM
Where is the "neither" option?

However, if our choice is between Brown and Curry and there aren't any better options, then Brown, easily.

Easily?

wow! are you that confident?

Heck I don't even think Brown is half the player Curry is?
That's just my opinion, and everyone is entitled to their own which is cool.

The only way I'd take Brown is if we trade down somehow accumulate extra picks and he guarantees me 10 sacks a year. Then I'd wouldn't hesitate to pull off a trade...But if Curry is damn as good as they project him to be, and guarantees me probowls every year and is the cornerstone to building a good defense you damn bet Im taking Curry at 3 no if ands or buts about it.

From what Ive seen, and read, I think Curry is better then Brown hands down.

RedThat
03-21-2009, 08:47 PM
aaron curry because he is more of a complete player and brings a heck of a lot more to a defense then Brown would.

58-4ever
03-21-2009, 08:50 PM
aaron curry because he is more of a complete player and brings a heck of a lot more to a defense then Brown would.

Actually, I think he'd "blend in" too much... We need a playmaker, a game changing pass rusher.

boogblaster
03-21-2009, 08:51 PM
Curry if u want a solid starter from day one ...

RedThat
03-21-2009, 08:55 PM
Actually, I think he'd "blend in" too much... We need a playmaker, a game changing pass rusher.

Well and thats the beauty of it? he brings a lot. great versitily, is a very smart football player, tough, athletic and for a linebacker, runs like a DB...Honestly I really think he fits a lot of the intangibles that Pioli is looking for in a player.

He'd be too good to pass up if he fell at 3...I watched him play at Wake forest and the guy is an absolute freak. I think he has the ability to make an impact on a football team and can do it very very quickly.

As far as pass rushing goes, I really hope we find a way to do it as a unit rather then having to rely on 1 specific guy to do it for you...The teams that get the most sacks do it as a team. That's how its done.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 08:56 PM
Easily?

wow! are you that confident?

Heck I don't even think Brown is half the player Curry is?
Well and thats the beauty of it?


Wait what's the quesion?

bdeg
03-21-2009, 08:58 PM
As far as pass rushing goes, I really hope we find a way to do it as a unit rather then having to rely on 1 specific guy to do it for you...The teams that get the most sacks do it as a team. That's how its done.

They also have good pass rushers.... More than one.

RedThat
03-21-2009, 08:58 PM
Wait what's the quesion?

Do you have to even ask it? You already know the answer ok he is on your avatar. I just thought Id say that assuming you're a Brown fan:D

bdeg
03-21-2009, 09:00 PM
I was just pointing out that those weren't questions. I've never been the grammar police before, it feels kinda gay.

RedThat
03-21-2009, 09:02 PM
They also have good pass rushers.... More than one.

Oh I agree. No doubt about it. But there is no saying you can't find one in possibly the 3rd or 4th round? Who knows? maybe there is 1 on our roster already we don't know about?

But if you got a guy who has the potential to be superstar LB, thats tough to pass up especially on a team that needs LBs.

RedThat
03-21-2009, 09:04 PM
I was just pointing out that those weren't questions. I've never been the grammar police before, it feels kinda gay.

Its all good man, all good;)

58-4ever
03-21-2009, 09:19 PM
Oh I agree. No doubt about it. But there is no saying you can't find one in possibly the 3rd or 4th round? Who knows? maybe there is 1 on our roster already we don't know about?

But if you got a guy who has the potential to be superstar LB, thats tough to pass up especially on a team that needs LBs.

Brown would most likely be a LB too in the 3-4. A Terrell Suggs type.

bdeg
03-21-2009, 09:27 PM
Yep, that's all opinion there. I think Brown will have a bigger impact for his team than Curry. If not next season, then the one after.

RedThat
03-21-2009, 09:29 PM
Brown would most likely be a LB too in the 3-4. A Terrell Suggs type.

Oh yeah well thats where he would be projected to go given his size, speed and strength. Im for trading down if he can be like a Suggs or better, Id say pull the triigger. But, if Curry can be just as good as say Derrick Brooks Id have a hard time passing up on that too you know what I mean? Both kind of players would bring different kinds of impact to a team in certain ways in which the Chiefs could desperately use. There's a fine distinction there from the kind of impact both players could bring. Just a matter of what the Chiefs value most and what they feel they could use? I guess.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 03:16 AM
Yo Mama.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 05:24 AM
Pollard, you ungrateful FUCKS.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 05:26 AM
Carrot Top.

milkman
03-22-2009, 07:40 AM
Oh yeah well thats where he would be projected to go given his size, speed and strength. Im for trading down if he can be like a Suggs or better, Id say pull the triigger. But, if Curry can be just as good as say Derrick Brooks Id have a hard time passing up on that too you know what I mean? Both kind of players would bring different kinds of impact to a team in certain ways in which the Chiefs could desperately use. There's a fine distinction there from the kind of impact both players could bring. Just a matter of what the Chiefs value most and what they feel they could use? I guess.

If I have the choice between Derrick Brooks and DT in their prime, I'm taking DT hands down.

Brooks is probably the best overall LB in the last 20 years, but his impact on the Bucs defense pales in comparison to DT.

There's no fine distinction.

DT was a game changer.

philfree
03-22-2009, 08:35 AM
If we stay at #3 it's Curry.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mr. Kotter
03-22-2009, 08:47 AM
I'm still hoping to trade down and recoup the 2nd round choice we sent for Cassel, in which case maybe we can draft Brown later in the first round.

Otherwise, Curry.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 09:53 AM
Brown would most likely be a LB too in the 3-4. A Terrell Suggs type.

I think he plays more like DT than Suggs. Larry English kinda reminds me of Suggs though.

Reerun_KC
03-22-2009, 09:54 AM
Poll is skewed, where is the neither option?

milkman
03-22-2009, 09:55 AM
If we stay at #3 it's Curry.


PhilFree:arrow:

I'm still hoping to trade down and recoup the 2nd round choice we sent for Cassel, in which case maybe we can draft Brown later in the first round.

Otherwise, Curry.

I hope you guys are happy with a new and improved Donnie Edwards.

Reerun_KC
03-22-2009, 09:57 AM
I hope you guys are happy with a new and improved Donnie Edwards.

Um Curry is a surefire player... Best eva... He will break all of DT pass rushing records...

RedThat
03-22-2009, 10:15 AM
Can we pull out this thread in about 4 or 5 years from now? Sit back and just enjoy this possible future entertainment.

milkman
03-22-2009, 10:21 AM
Can we pull out this thread in about 4 or 5 years from now? Sit back and just enjoy this possible future entertainment.

Why?

Most of us that against drafting Curry at 3 realize he has the potential to be an outstanding player for years in the NFL.

He is not, however, a player that plays a position of impact.

He's a fundamentally sound tackler and very good coverbacker.

He could go on to be the next Harry Carson, but I wouldn't draft Harry Carson #3 overall either.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 10:47 AM
Why?

Most of us that against drafting Curry at 3 realize he has the potential to be an outstanding player for years in the NFL.

He is not, however, a player that plays a position of impact.

He's a fundamentally sound tackler and very good coverbacker.

He could go on to be the next Harry Carson, but I wouldn't draft Harry Carson #3 overall either.

And there it is, folks.

ClearmontChief
03-22-2009, 10:57 AM
I don't want this to sound like somebody's 2nd cousin's real estate agent story. But...

I work with a Florida State Football Alum. We talk football all the time. His comments on Brown...starts with a laugh. Then says without reserve that Brown doesn't belong in the top of the first round. Late first, early second. Said "dude has all the measurables, speed, quickness, and will wow them at the combine. But, what they can't see is the dude has NO heart! Zero, and he's weak and disappears during the games."

I hope we don't get Brown. I'd love for the pick to be Curry. But, we'll likely trade down, probably a couple times early and recoup a lot of draft picks. Then go O-line and Linebacker, both deep positions.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 11:07 AM
It's not uncommon for an undersized DE to disappear sometimes, especially when you consider this was his first full season as a starter. Maybe he was still getting used to it all and was a little nervous. It is troubling, and I haven't watched nearly as much of FSU as this guy, but I wouldn't write him off for being a little timid.

RedThat
03-22-2009, 11:20 AM
Why?

Most of us that against drafting Curry at 3 realize he has the potential to be an outstanding player for years in the NFL.

He is not, however, a player that plays a position of impact.

He's a fundamentally sound tackler and very good coverbacker.

He could go on to be the next Harry Carson, but I wouldn't draft Harry Carson #3 overall either.

I don't understand what you mean position of impact?

If he can tackle well and do a lot of other things well enough to improve your football team then isn't that "impact" alone?

Why would you even use Harry Carson as part of your statement?Harry Carson type of player was outstanding, and I don't think it's a good example to use because this Chiefs team sucked in pretty much every sense of the word and phase when it came to defensive play last season. Any hall of fame type of defensive player would improve a defense that pretty much couldn't do anything. The Chiefs could use a Ray Lewis, Dick Butkus, Derrick Thomas, any type of great defensive player that's the way I look at it.

WhitiE
03-22-2009, 11:22 AM
Damn I voted for Curry but meant Brown. I still hope we take Raji though.

k u can have my vote ill vote for brown for u and ur vote is mine.... k everyone we switched votes!!! let it be known.....

bdeg
03-22-2009, 11:27 AM
I don't understand what you mean position of impact?

If he can tackle well and do a lot of other things well enough to improve your football team then isn't that "impact" alone?

Why would you even use Harry Carson as part of your statement?Harry Carson type of player was outstanding, and I don't think it's a good example to use because this Chiefs team sucked in pretty much every sense of the word and phase when it came to defensive play last season. Any hall of fame type of defensive player would improve a defense that pretty much couldn't do anything. The Chiefs could use a Ray Lewis, Dick Butkus, Derrick Thomas, any type of great defensive player that's the way I look at it.

DJ already fills that need for us. I'd much rather upgrade Tamba or whoever we put at OLB opposite Vrabel than replace DJ as our pass-coverage ILB.

Great pass rushers do more for a team than great coverage LBs. Just like a great QB has a more of an impact than a great RB.

DaWolf
03-22-2009, 11:36 AM
Yep, that's all opinion there. I think Brown will have a bigger impact for his team than Curry. If not next season, then the one after.
That's what I'm thinking as well. Granted I'm no expert of any kind. What I do know is that for this or any defense to be great, you need to have one or two players on the D who will be game changers, like DT was. Make the sack on third and medium, force the fumble, change the entire momentum of the game. That's what you want at #3 ideally...

RedThat
03-22-2009, 11:49 AM
If I have the choice between Derrick Brooks and DT in their prime, I'm taking DT hands down.

Brooks is probably the best overall LB in the last 20 years, but his impact on the Bucs defense pales in comparison to DT.

There's no fine distinction.

DT was a game changer.

Are you saying that because you're a Chiefs fan? I love DT too

But I'd think about what to say first before making bold statements like that.

There is a distinction because both guys are different in regards to the strengths, and premier qualities they both bring that display impact to a football team.

DT was great at passrushing no doubt about it. But when it came to coverages, not so good. Derrick Brooks on the other hand, wasn't a passrusher by any means, but if you ask him to do anything else, he will do it for you.

Both guys had significant impacts to their team. It just came in a certain form, specific way. Derrick Brooks was one of the Lynchpins when it came to that defense in Tampa. Im not sure whether DT had more of an impact then Brooks as far as team defense is concerned, but Id definately say Brooks was instrumental in changing games. In fact, he did it when it counted most, in the superbowl. That we know for sure.

Sure-Oz
03-22-2009, 11:55 AM
I really hope we can trade down about 4 to 6 spots and pick up a 2nd rounder or another pick too

RedThat
03-22-2009, 12:10 PM
DJ already fills that need for us. I'd much rather upgrade Tamba or whoever we put at OLB opposite Vrabel than replace DJ as our pass-coverage ILB.

Great pass rushers do more for a team than great coverage LBs. Just like a great QB has a more of an impact than a great RB.

I love passrushers. They bring significant impact to a team. But, so do many other great players. coverbackers do to? Even players that aren't exactly the greatest passrushers but are pretty much fundamentally sound in every other category have significant impact too?

I mean look, there is so much to football, thats why this game is great because its not just 1 thing, there are so many other things and categories that matter. What matters is, that your team is sound in every category, element, phase whatever..That's why I wouldn't really say this position has more impact then that position. You can't really look at it that way? Because lets face it, THEY ALL MATTER!

But, Im looking at this Chiefs team overall and I see that this defense of theirs sucked in pretty much everything.

the whole thing has to be viewed from a broad perspective. DJ isn't exactly a player who brings it every week. He's good at being inconsistent thats the truth! and doesn't have the mental makeup to be a probowl caliber player or a player you can build your defense around. Hes a nice player to have dont get me wrong, a good complimentary player, but not a player who makes a difference who other guys can feed off of and look up to. This defense needs that, and that is truly missing. if you dont bring it every week, bad things are gonna happen, guys are gonna get open, he'll miss a tackle here and there, he'll blow an assignment in whatever it may be...I see it, I watch him play and it happens a lot.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 12:15 PM
I never said DJ was perfect, but even if you discount positional value(agree to disagree I guess) our coverage linebacker situation is a LOT better than our pass-rush at the moment.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 01:35 PM
I would say that Curry was the biggest "impact" linebacker in college football last year. Hes a guy that even if not a single stat went down in the books during a play he still forced the qb to make bad throws and he filled holes properly that allowed other guys to make great plays. Curry is a guy that could make DJ and himself a pro bowler

bdeg
03-22-2009, 01:44 PM
I would say that Curry was the biggest "impact" linebacker in college football last year. Hes a guy that even if not a single stat went down in the books during a play he still forced the qb to make bad throws and he filled holes properly that allowed other guys to make great plays. Curry is a guy that could make DJ and himself a pro bowler

Replace every "Curry" with "Brown" and change linebacker to defensive lineman and it's even more true.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 01:47 PM
Replace every "Curry" with "Brown" and change linebacker to defensive linemen and it's even more true.

explain why you think Brown could make DJ a pro-bowler.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 01:49 PM
A pass-rush makes the entire defense better. Even when not getting sacks I think he'd be constantly pressuring the QB into making bad decisions, throwing before he wants to. That's the key to turnovers and great defense(especially getting off the field on 3rd down), not dropping all your LB's into coverage. Remember we're moving away from the cover-2.

Anyway, more bad decisions by the QB, more interceptions for DJ and more importantly our entire secondary.

Not to mention Flowers wouldn't have to cover guys as long. Speed's not his thing so he's pretty dependent on a pass-rush in the assumed new scheme.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 01:56 PM
How's Curry going to make him better?

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 02:00 PM
A pass-rush makes the entire defense better. Even when not getting sacks I think he'd be constantly pressuring the QB into making bad decisions, throwing before he wants to. That's the key to turnovers and great defense, not dropping all your LB's into coverage. Remember we're moving away from the cover-2. Anyway, more bad decisions by the QB, more interceptions for DJ and more importantly our entire secondary.

This is what makes CP so great. I guess Its just a matter of which position we want in the 1st round. I would have no problem picking Larry English in the late 1st if we could trade back up into the first later in the draft. But I think we need a leader that will be used in every aspect not just a pass rusher. So far in college all Brown has done is pass rush, I want a guy with our 1st pick that can do it all and still be our dominant team leader. A Ray Lewis type. But after the 1st I think we can get some pretty good pass rushers. Maybe a Tyson Jackson? Michael Johnson? Brandon Williams? all these guys could help us out, especially Tyson Jackson.

milkman
03-22-2009, 02:05 PM
Are you saying that because you're a Chiefs fan? I love DT too

But I'd think about what to say first before making bold statements like that.

There is a distinction because both guys are different in regards to the strengths, and premier qualities they both bring that display impact to a football team.

DT was great at passrushing no doubt about it. But when it came to coverages, not so good. Derrick Brooks on the other hand, wasn't a passrusher by any means, but if you ask him to do anything else, he will do it for you.

Both guys had significant impacts to their team. It just came in a certain form, specific way. Derrick Brooks was one of the Lynchpins when it came to that defense in Tampa. Im not sure whether DT had more of an impact then Brooks as far as team defense is concerned, but Id definately say Brooks was instrumental in changing games. In fact, he did it when it counted most, in the superbowl. That we know for sure.

Wow!

Someone asking me if I'm a homer!

LMAO.

I didn't make that statement because I'm a Chiefs fan.

I made that statement because for everything that Brooks does, he never was the game changer that DT, LT, Kevin Greene were, or guys like Shawne "roidman" Merriman and DeMarcus Ware are.

Sure, disrupted offenses with his ability to get to ball carriers and make plays in coverage, take the ball away with interceptions, but DT and teh other guys I mentioned are difference makers at a higher level.

They get to the QB and tear the heart out of offenses.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 02:08 PM
How's Curry going to make him better?

I think Curry would make him better because DJ is the guy that doesnt like to go through blocks, he is the type that wants the other guys to take care of the blocks so that he can make a play in space. Curry is the type that drives over blockers and makes those holes for DJ to make plays in. Curry is also the most complete linebacker ive seen in the draft for a very long time. He has a terrific work ethic and hes extremely football smart. This guy has nearly zero flaws. and that is what I look at with the LB's. His only serious flaw, and its not a big one is that he can overpurse sometimes. Other than this, and needing to bend his knees more, he doesnt have another flaw.

milkman
03-22-2009, 02:09 PM
I would say that Curry was the biggest "impact" linebacker in college football last year. Hes a guy that even if not a single stat went down in the books during a play he still forced the qb to make bad throws and he filled holes properly that allowed other guys to make great plays. Curry is a guy that could make DJ and himself a pro bowler

I'm sorry, but Curry only had 9 1/2 sacks in his 4 years of college ball.

He's not a pass rusher, he's not consistently getting into a QBs face and forcing bad throws.

He, himself even acknowledged his lack of pass rush experience.

So, you, my friend, are talkking out of your ass.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 02:16 PM
I'm sorry, but Curry only had 9 1/2 sacks in his 4 years of college ball.

He's not a pass rusher, he's not consistently getting into a QBs face and forcing bad throws.

He, himself even acknowledged his lack of pass rush experience.

So, you, my friend, are talkking out of your ass.

Ive never said he was a pass rusher. Thats not what he was asked to do in college. "He's not a pass rusher, he's not consistently getting into a QBs face and forcing bad throws." Now this was a terrible statement. Although Curry didnt make a lot of sacks, he was consistently in the backfield when he was asked to do so. He does not have experience rushing the passer. This doesnt mean he was not good at it. He timed his blitzes very well, and didnt make any false steps moving forward. Teams always gameplaned around him because he was The man on his defense. Alphonso Smith was always making plays because of Curry disrupting the QB. Ive scouted this guy, and I know what hes capable of. He is the best player in this draft, and if you had taken the time to scout him you would realize this too.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 02:30 PM
Ive scouted this guy, and I know what hes capable of. He is the best player in this draft, and if you had taken the time to scout him you would realize this too.I didn't realize we had any scouts here.

milkman
03-22-2009, 02:34 PM
Ive never said he was a pass rusher. Thats not what he was asked to do in college. "He's not a pass rusher, he's not consistently getting into a QBs face and forcing bad throws." Now this was a terrible statement. Although Curry didnt make a lot of sacks, he was consistently in the backfield when he was asked to do so. He does not have experience rushing the passer. This doesnt mean he was not good at it. He timed his blitzes very well, and didnt make any false steps moving forward. Teams always gameplaned around him because he was The man on his defense. Alphonso Smith was always making plays because of Curry disrupting the QB. Ive scouted this guy, and I know what hes capable of. He is the best player in this draft, and if you had taken the time to scout him you would realize this too.

Timing an occasional blitz and actually rushing the passer on a consistent basis are two entirely different things, and Curry has no pass rush moves at all.

If he were drafted to be a Rush Backer, he'd have to learn a entirely new skill set, and even if he's extremely smart and is successful in the learning process, he still won't be a polished pass rusher, and a difference maker for a couple years.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 02:41 PM
Timing an occasional blitz and actually rushing the passer on a consistent basis are two entirely different things, and Curry has no pass rush moves at all.

If he were drafted to be a Rush Backer, he'd have to learn a entirely new skill set, and even if he's extremely smart and is successful in the learning process, he still won't be a polished pass rusher, and a difference maker for a couple years.

Curry never needed to use pass rush moves in college. He rag-dolled, and shed blockers effortlessly. He used his long arms to just move guys around. Like ive said, he is extremely football smart. It would not take him a couple years to become a difference maker as a pass rusher if that is what his team asks him to do. But most teams wont use him as a rush linebacker if they are smart. They need to basically let him do what he did in college. show me a weakness on Curry other than what ive talked about.

milkman
03-22-2009, 02:51 PM
Curry never needed to use pass rush moves in college. He rag-dolled, and shed blockers effortlessly. He used his long arms to just move guys around. Like ive said, he is extremely football smart. It would not take him a couple years to become a difference maker as a pass rusher if that is what his team asks him to do. But most teams wont use him as a rush linebacker if they are smart. They need to basically let him do what he did in college. show me a weakness on Curry other than what ive talked about.

He is not going to "rag-doll and shed blockers effortlessly" in the NFL.

And you keep discussing it like he was used as a pass rusher enough to actually make a valid analysis of his pass rushing skills.

If he was used as a pass rusher enough to get a solid evaluation of his pass rush ability, then 9 1/2 sacks over 4 years sucks ass, and in no way supports any opinion that he's a #3 overall.
If he didn't rush the passer consistently, then that in no way supports any opinion that he's a #3 overall.

And most teams are smart enough to realize that pass rushers are the difference makers in the NFL on defense.

If he's drafted at #3 overall, if he isn't used as, and isn't successful as a pass rusher, he better be the second coming of Ray Lewis
to justify that draft position.

Anything less, and he was picked too high.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 03:00 PM
He is not going to "rag-doll and shed blockers effortlessly" in the NFL.

And you keep discussing it like he was used as a pass rusher enough to actually make a valid analysis of his pass rushing skills.

If he was used as a pass rusher enough to get a solid evaluation of his pass rush ability, then 9 1/2 sacks over 4 years sucks ass, and in no way supports any opinion that he's a #3 overall.
If he didn't rush the passer consistently, then that in no way supports any opinion that he's a #3 overall.

And most teams are smart enough to realize that pass rushers are the difference makers in the NFL on defense.

If he's drafted at #3 overall, if he isn't used as, and isn't successful as a pass rusher, he better be the second coming of Ray Lewis
to justify that draft position.

Anything less, and he was picked too high.

Im not going to go into it any further. But Curry has the best chance to be the next Ray Lewis, and Pat Willis type of player than anyone else in this draft.

Mecca
03-22-2009, 03:06 PM
Im not going to go into it any further. But Curry has the best chance to be the next Ray Lewis, and Pat Willis type of player than anyone else in this draft.

Other than if you put him up against last years top LB's you'd have a pretty hard time justifying he's a better prospect than either guy.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 03:23 PM
Other than if you put him up against last years top LB's you'd have a pretty hard time justifying he's a better prospect than either guy.

hes pretty close to being a Pat Willis prospect. They are both very very smiliar.

RustShack
03-22-2009, 03:47 PM
If Curry can only get 9 sacks in four years "rag dolling" people he isn't going to get a sack in the NFL. To me Curry is a bigger version of Donnie Edwards and Brown is about as close to Derrick Thomas as we are ever going to get again, who do you want?

In the 3-4 your biggest needs are OLB and NT... I'll take Brown who actually plays at an impact position instead of blowing a #3 pick on a position that can be found about anywhere.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 03:56 PM
In the 3-4 your biggest needs are OLB and NT... I'll take Brown who actually plays at an impact position instead of blowing a #3 pick on a position that can be found about anywhere.Including already on the roster.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 04:18 PM
If Curry can only get 9 sacks in four years "rag dolling" people he isn't going to get a sack in the NFL. To me Curry is a bigger version of Donnie Edwards and Brown is about as close to Derrick Thomas as we are ever going to get again, who do you want?

In the 3-4 your biggest needs are OLB and NT... I'll take Brown who actually plays at an impact position instead of blowing a #3 pick on a position that can be found about anywhere.

Willis only had 11 sacks in his career, and had only 11 tackles for loss his senior year. Curry had 16.5 TFL. Willis is currently one of the best linebackers in the league. I will take a Willis on our team anyday.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 04:35 PM
If Curry can only get 9 sacks in four years "rag dolling" people he isn't going to get a sack in the NFL. To me Curry is a bigger version of Donnie Edwards and Brown is about as close to Derrick Thomas as we are ever going to get again, who do you want?

In the 3-4 your biggest needs are OLB and NT... I'll take Brown who actually plays at an impact position instead of blowing a #3 pick on a position that can be found about anywhere.

If we ever want to capitalize on Flowers and Carr, we must develop a pass rush. As has been stated here, Curry is not that guy. I know nothing about Brown, but that's what video for.

That said, if Brown is projected as a first rounder, is it worth it to trade out of the 3rd OA to get him?

Lastly, how many rushing LB's of high quality have been found in the 2nd and later rounds? I'm willing to bet more than a single Tom Brady in the 6th, yes? The Chiefs can't afford to piss that 3rd away.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 05:45 PM
It seems on the surface that most, or at least many of the people who argued so relentlessly for Sanchez are equally as relentless in thier arguement against Curry.

I realize that in the past it was a "one or the other arguement". You had those trying to convince folks that Sanchez could come out, and without much experience transition to the NFL. Even though it never happens. In fact, those that argued to the contrary were told they knew nothing about football. As though it was automatic that he would make the transition.

Now, those same folks are argueing against Curry. Saying he cant make the transition as a pass rusher in the NFL. As though ITS automatic. Never mind that it has been documented many times that he was not used in that capacity in college. Folks disreaguard that as the reason he didn't get a lot of sacks.

This just in people, if you dont send the guy, he's not gonna get many sacks. Dont mean he cant.

My question is this. How can Sanchez, with one years starting experience in college automatically be a great NFL QB, while it will be impossible for a college LBer to rush the passer when he wasn't used that way in college?

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 05:54 PM
Folks disreaguard that as the reason he didn't get a lot of sacks.

Your logic is faulty, sorry.

If he wasn't USED, by the coaches, in a pass rushing capacity then you cannot say either way that it was the reason he didn't get alot of sacks.

It's entirely possible that EVEN IF he was used that way, he still would get any. It's possible that he wasn't used that way because they knew ahead of time he couldn't do it. It's also possible that he is a stud pass rusher with all the moves, but the coaches were adamant about the scheme, his talent be-damned. It sounds farfetched for sure, but it's entirely POSSIBLE.

So in summary, you simply cannot identify the reason he didn't get any sacks because they never used him that way.

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 05:56 PM
Willis only had 11 sacks in his career, and had only 11 tackles for loss his senior year. Curry had 16.5 TFL. Willis is currently one of the best linebackers in the league. I will take a Willis on our team anyday.

Willis is a 4-3 OLB. No doubt Curry might be able to have that kind of success...

In a 4-3.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 05:57 PM
It's also possible that he is a stud pass rusher with all the movesIt's also possible that keg in kc is really George Clooney masquerading as a fat loser on the internet.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 05:59 PM
Your logic is faulty, sorry.

If he wasn't USED, by the coaches, in a pass rushing capacity then you cannot say either way that it was the reason he didn't get alot of sacks.

It's entirely possible that EVEN IF he was used that way, he still would get any. It's possible that he wasn't used that way because they knew ahead of time he couldn't do it. It's also possible that he is a stud pass rusher with all the moves, but the coaches were adamant about the scheme, his talent be-damned. It sounds farfetched for sure, but it's entirely POSSIBLE.

So in summary, you simply cannot identify the reason he didn't get any sacks because they never used him that way.

You'll see a lot of that, trust me.

Bottom line:

Sanchez made his bones in College as a Quarterback.

Curry did NOT make his bones as a pass-rusher in College, and we need pass-rushers to capitalize on our corners, and to get our strong safety out of coverage.

See? Nice and simple.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:07 PM
Your logic is faulty, sorry.

If he wasn't USED, by the coaches, in a pass rushing capacity then you cannot say either way that it was the reason he didn't get alot of sacks.

It's entirely possible that EVEN IF he was used that way, he still would get any. It's possible that he wasn't used that way because they knew ahead of time he couldn't do it. It's also possible that he is a stud pass rusher with all the moves, but the coaches were adamant about the scheme, his talent be-damned. It sounds farfetched for sure, but it's entirely POSSIBLE.

So in summary, you simply cannot identify the reason he didn't get any sacks because they never used him that way.

Exactly right!!

But I certainly identified the lack of any reasonable arguement he cant rush the passer. Which was the context of my post.

DCS is still trying to figure out what it all means. ROFL

But I think you understand where I was going with my post. I wasn't saying he was a good pass rusher, but that there's no reasonable arguement to the contrary.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 06:14 PM
Exactly right!!

But I certainly identified the lack of any reasonable arguement he cant rush the passer. Which was the context of my post.

DCS is still trying to figure out what it all means. ROFL

But I think you understand where I was going with my post. I wasn't saying he was a good pass rusher, but that there's no reasonable arguement to the contrary.

So, draft Donnie Edwards ver 2.0, and continue to do the Herm Edwards "musical positions"-trip where if "he don't work here, then let's put him over there".

Got it.

Brilliant!:rolleyes:

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 06:15 PM
But I think you understand where I was going with my post. I wasn't saying he was a good pass rusher, but that there's no reasonable arguement to the contrary.It's kind of a moot point. If you do draft him, you're not doing it in the hopes that he'll become a pass rusher. Not at 3. Players in that range are drafted for known quantities, and if he goes that high, it's as a coverage backer. You don't take on projects or guys you want to convert with that kind of pick and ensuing contract. Late in the first maybe, but not top 5.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:16 PM
So, draft Donnie Edwards ver 2.0, and continue to do the Herm Edwards "musical positions"-trip where if "he don't work here, then let's put him over there".

Got it.

Brilliant!:rolleyes:


Dont get yourself all wound up there, little fella. You dont have to understand. Just keep your post count rockin'.

9000 posts in 6 months..........ROFL. You're pathetic, son.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:17 PM
It's kind of a moot point. If you do draft him, you're not doing it in the hopes that he'll become a pass rusher. Not at 3. Players in that range are drafted for their known quantities, and if he goes that high, it's as a coverage backer.

When you say coverage backer, are you saying he cant play the run? This guys is suppoed to be the most versitile LB coming out. I'm npot saying he has to be converted. Only that you have no arguement he cant rush the passer.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 06:19 PM
When you say coverage backer, are you saying he cant play the run? This guys is suppoed to be the most versitile LB coming out.I was just using 'coverage backer' as a blanket for 4-3 MLB/SLB, or 3-4 ILB.

And he clearly has skills in coverage, so I'd imagine whatever team that drafts him will exploit that.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 06:20 PM
It's kind of a moot point. If you do draft him, you're not doing it in the hopes that he'll become a pass rusher. Not at 3. Players in that range are drafted for their known quantities, and if he goes that high, it's as a coverage backer.

But...but...if we can't trade down, then we HAVE to piss that pick away on guy who doesn't meet our needs, and who we can pay an ungodly amount of money to for doing so!

Must....avoid....acquiring.....a second.....franchise....quarterback....at all.....costs...

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 06:24 PM
Dont get yourself all wound up there, little fella. You dont have to understand. Just keep your post count rockin'.

9000 posts in 6 months..........ROFL. You're pathetic, son.

I love it when people tag their own insult posts with laughing smiley's; it means their the only ones laughing, and that they are completely lame.

Yep, that's you alright.

ncCHIEFfan
03-22-2009, 06:25 PM
It seems on the surface that most, or at least many of the people who argued so relentlessly for Sanchez are equally as relentless in thier arguement against Curry.

I realize that in the past it was a "one or the other arguement". You had those trying to convince folks that Sanchez could come out, and without much experience transition to the NFL. Even though it never happens. In fact, those that argued to the contrary were told they knew nothing about football. As though it was automatic that he would make the transition.

Now, those same folks are argueing against Curry. Saying he cant make the transition as a pass rusher in the NFL. As though ITS automatic. Never mind that it has been documented many times that he was not used in that capacity in college. Folks disreaguard that as the reason he didn't get a lot of sacks.

This just in people, if you dont send the guy, he's not gonna get many sacks. Dont mean he cant.

My question is this. How can Sanchez, with one years starting experience in college automatically be a great NFL QB, while it will be impossible for a college LBer to rush the passer when he wasn't used that way in college?

Brother that has been my arguement all along:hmmm:

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:25 PM
I love it when people tag their own insult posts with laughing smiley's; it means their the only ones laughing, and that they are completely lame.

Yep, that's you alright.

Thanks champ. And yep....I'm laughin'.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 06:26 PM
Must....avoid....acquiring.....a second.....franchise....quarterback....at all.....costs...I don't want sanchez, at least not that high, and I don't think the Chiefs do, either, unless the Cassel trade was some kind of elaborate smokescreen. Either way, Brown's the guy I'd be after, although I'd like to move down if possible.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 06:28 PM
Thanks champ. And yep....I'm laughin'.

Those shiny objects sure are distracting and funny, yes?

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:28 PM
I don't want sanchez, at least not that high, and I don't think the Chiefs do, either, unless the Cassel trade was some kind of elaborate smokescreen. Either way, Brown's the guy I'd be after, although I'd like to move down if possible.

If you cant move down, do you still take him at #3?

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 06:30 PM
Those shiny objects sure are distracting and funny, yes?

In light of this killer smack, I conceed, my good man.

You tha man.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 06:31 PM
I don't want sanchez, at least not that high, and I don't think the Chiefs do, either, unless the Cassel trade was some kind of elaborate smokescreen. Either way, Brown's the guy I'd be after, although I'd like to move down if possible.

If he's a legitimate pass rusher with tremendous upside, I can get behind that.

If flipping Cassel per the Convolution Theory outlined a few days ago could net another first round pick, snagging Stafford or Sanchez at 3rd overall and following it up with Brown would be a major coup.

ncCHIEFfan
03-22-2009, 06:33 PM
So, draft Donnie Edwards ver 2.0, and continue to do the Herm Edwards "musical positions"-trip where if "he don't work here, then let's put him over there".

Got it.

Brilliant!:rolleyes:

I cannot believe you guys are saying this. Curry is a dominate LB. Has exceeded at everything asked of him. He will be 3x the LB of D.Edwards and Edwards was a good LB

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 06:33 PM
a dominate LBHas this been officially added to the Lexicon yet?

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 06:35 PM
If you cant move down, do you still take him at #3?I would, yeah. Depending on who else is on the board. If Stafford's there, it makes things tougher decision-wise, although I really hope he is; that's the only way I see the pick as tradeable.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 07:12 PM
Exactly right!!

But I certainly identified the lack of any reasonable arguement he cant rush the passer. Which was the context of my post.

DCS is still trying to figure out what it all means. ROFL

But I think you understand where I was going with my post. I wasn't saying he was a good pass rusher, but that there's no reasonable arguement to the contrary.

Look, the fact is that Brown has proven he can run around and shed the blocks of decent OT's. As a DE, he's been practicing almost nothing but that for three years. Curry has no such experience and is a huge gamble if you're counting on him to be a pass-rusher.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 07:19 PM
Look, the fact is that Brown has proven he can run around and shed the blocks of decent OT's. As a DE, he's been practicing almost nothing but that for three years. Curry has no such experience and is a huge gamble if you're counting on him to be a pass-rusher.

"It was the sound.....of rep add".

http://flatflat.org/img/thesis/arcangel/simon_and_garfunkel_3.jpg:D

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:21 PM
Look, the fact is that Brown has proven he can run around and shed the blocks of decent OT's. As a DE, he's been practicing almost nothing but that for three years. Curry has no such experience and is a huge gamble if you're counting on him to be a pass-rusher.

Who's counting on him as a pass rusher?

I'm just saying he may very well be able to rush the passer. Who knows? Personally, I dont require him as a pass rusher to see the value. He's the best player in the draft at a position of need. To me it seems a no brainer. Others like to over complicate it. If you want Brown, I'm fine with that. But the arguemts against Curry are foolish arguements driven by agendas.

I'm just looking for a good football player myself.

milkman
03-22-2009, 07:23 PM
Look, the fact is that Brown has proven he can run around and shed the blocks of decent OT's. As a DE, he's been practicing almost nothing but that for three years. Curry has no such experience and is a huge gamble if you're counting on him to be a pass-rusher.

That's it in a nutshell.

I'm not saying he can't be a pass rusher.
I am saying there is no evidence to support any argument that he is a pass rusher, and as keg pointed out, you don't draft a guy to do things he's projected to do at #3.
You draft guys to do things they are known for doing.

milkman
03-22-2009, 07:27 PM
Who's counting on him as a pass rusher?

I'm just saying he may very well be able to rush the passer. Who knows? Personally, I dont require him as a pass rusher to see the value. He's the best player in the draft at a position of need. To me it seems a no brainer. Others like to over complicate it. If you want Brown, I'm fine with that. But the arguemts against Curry are foolish arguements driven by agendas.

I'm just looking for a good football player myself.

At #3 you draft core positions, and cover backer, even one who is a fundamentally sound tackler and a good run defender is not a core position.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:31 PM
At #3 you draft core positions, and cover backer, even one who is a fundamentally sound tackler and a good run defender is not a core position.

You underestimate the LB position IMO.

You definately underestimate the value of a leader on defense. This guy can be a leader. The "LBer mentality" this defense is missing.

DT was a limited LBer. Not so good at coverage or the run. But he was a leader. The tip of the spear. We need that again. Not just 10 -15 sacks a year. JMO

bdeg
03-22-2009, 07:33 PM
Who's counting on him as a pass rusher?

I'm just saying he may very well be able to rush the passer. Who knows? Personally, I dont require him as a pass rusher to see the value. He's the best player in the draft at a position of need. To me it seems a no brainer. Others like to over complicate it. If you want Brown, I'm fine with that. But the arguemts against Curry are foolish arguements driven by agendas.

I'm just looking for a good football player myself.
What foolish arguments? What agendas?

bdeg
03-22-2009, 07:34 PM
You underestimate the LB position IMO.

You definately underestimate the value of a leader on defense. This guy can be a leader. The "LBer mentality" this defense is missing.

DT was a limited LBer. Not so good at coverage or the run. But he was a leader. The tip of the spear. We need that again. Not just 10 -15 sacks a year. JMO

Vrabel is a leader. And if we valued a great "LBer mentality" we could've overpaid for a couple years of Ray Lewis. He could have had an impact on the young guys, but I think Vrabel covers that need.

milkman
03-22-2009, 07:37 PM
You underestimate the LB position IMO.

You definately underestimate the value of a leader on defense. This guy can be a leader. The "LBer mentality" this defense is missing.

DT was a limited LBer. Not so good at coverage or the run. But he was a leader. The tip of the spear. We need that again. Not just 10 -15 sacks a year. JMO

If we take him at #3 he better be the second coming of Ray Lewis, because it's that kind of intensity that a player in his position has to bring in order to be the kind of leader that spearheads a defense.

I didn't see that intensity against Navy in their bowl game, nor have I seen it in any of the highlights.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:38 PM
What foolish arguments? What agendas?

Arguements like, you dont take the best player in the draft because he may or may not be able to rush the passer. Then argue that you reach for a player rated way lower than your pic. Or to take a QB to sit on the bench, even though we just spent a second round pick on a starter.

If these are not your arguements, then I'm not referring to you.

I can understand the Brown arguement to a degree. But the QB arguement is dumb as hell and shows a lack of coherent thought.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:42 PM
Vrabel is a leader. And if we valued a great "LBer mentality" we could've overpaid for a couple years of Ray Lewis. He could have had an impact on the young guys, but I think Vrabel covers that need.


I hope you're right. But I'm not certain.

Like I said, I'm looking for the best player at a position of need. I have no guarantee that Curry is all that, any more than I do Brown. I'm not so hung up on position. I'm hung up on dominant football players.

Surely we can agree on that?

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 07:42 PM
Vrabel is a leader. And if we valued a great "LBer mentality" we could've overpaid for a couple years of Ray Lewis. He could have had an impact on the young guys, but I think Vrabel covers that need.

so that means Vrabel will be our leader for the next 5 years? I want a guy for the future, Vrabel wont be a Chief in 5 years. Curry will fill that role for a very long time. Sounds like your not thinking about the future of this team.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 07:47 PM
so that means Vrabel will be our leader for the next 5 years? I want a guy for the future, Vrabel wont be a Chief in 5 years. Curry will fill that role for a very long time. Sounds like your not thinking about the future of this team.

You hope Vrabel passes his work ethic and such on to young guys such as DJ and Curry/Brown, the entire defense really, and hope they continue that legacy.

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 07:47 PM
Exactly right!!

But I certainly identified the lack of any reasonable arguement he cant rush the passer. Which was the context of my post.

DCS is still trying to figure out what it all means. ROFL

But I think you understand where I was going with my post. I wasn't saying he was a good pass rusher, but that there's no reasonable arguement to the contrary.

Actually, I presented two more than reasonable arguments that he can't in my post, as well as a reasonable argument supporting your side as well.

And those were just 3 examples, there's a dozen more.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 07:48 PM
so that means Vrabel will be our leader for the next 5 years? I want a guy for the future, Vrabel wont be a Chief in 5 years. Curry will fill that role for a very long time. Sounds like your not thinking about the future of this team.

I value the future of this team immensely, that's why I would use the 3rd overall to secure another quality player at the most important position on a football team.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:48 PM
so that means Vrabel will be our leader for the next 5 years? I want a guy for the future, Vrabel wont be a Chief in 5 years. Curry will fill that role for a very long time. Sounds like your not thinking about the future of this team.

I could be wrong, but I thought Vrable had more of a rep for being a locker room guy. A leader by example type. Not sure if he is the catalyst on the field type. Either way, I think he's a good get. I look forward to his contribution.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:49 PM
I value the future of this team immensely, that's why I would use the 3rd overall to secure another quality player at the most important position on a football team.

What's that....bench?

bdeg
03-22-2009, 07:49 PM
Arguements like, you dont take the best player in the draft because he may or may not be able to rush the passer. Then argue that you reach for a player rated way lower than your pic. Or to take a QB to sit on the bench, even though we just spent a second round pick on a starter.

If these are not your arguements, then I'm not referring to you.

I can understand the Brown arguement to a degree. But the QB arguement is dumb as hell and shows a lack of coherent thought.
As far as where a player is rated... Mayo was looked at by most as a fringe 1st rounder until Pioli took him at #10.I hope you're right. But I'm not certain.

Like I said, I'm looking for the best player at a position of need. I have no guarantee that Curry is all that, any more than I do Brown. I'm not so hung up on position. I'm hung up on dominant football players.

Surely we can agree on that?

Definitely.

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 07:50 PM
Who's counting on him as a pass rusher?

I'm just saying he may very well be able to rush the passer. Who knows? Personally, I dont require him as a pass rusher to see the value. He's the best player in the draft at a position of need. To me it seems a no brainer. Others like to over complicate it. If you want Brown, I'm fine with that. But the arguemts against Curry are foolish arguements driven by agendas.

I'm just looking for a good football player myself.

Not all arguments against are driven by some kind of "Sanchez or bust" agenda. Certainly not mine.

#3 overall is too high of a price for a coverage/run stopper LB. It simply is.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 07:50 PM
What's that....bench?

A quality understudy, as Tyler Thigpen is completely incapable of being that guy.

Completely.

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 07:51 PM
Dont get yourself all wound up there, little fella. You dont have to understand. Just keep your post count rockin'.

9000 posts in 6 months..........ROFL. You're pathetic, son.

Dude, post count smack is lame, regardless of how it's used.

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 07:53 PM
#3 overall is too high of a price for a coverage/run stopper LB. It simply is.It would make slightly more sense if we didn't already have DJ on the roster playing the exact same spot he would project to, but even then, it's just not the kind of impact position you look to draft that high. It would be like taking a guard in the top 5.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 07:54 PM
Dude, post count smack is lame, regardless of how it's used.

Especially when you can't get the count right. But hey, Crazy Horse knows everything!

I mean, who WOULDN'T want to pay 3rd overall cash for a guy that may or may not be an impact player, right?

htismaqe
03-22-2009, 07:55 PM
It would make slightly more sense if we didn't already have DJ on the roster playing the exact same spot he would project to, but even then, it's just not the kind of impact position you look to draft that high. It would be like taking a guard in the top 5.

Exactly.

We need an Anthony Davis, Donnie Edwards LB to line up inside next to DJ. Those guys come from the middle rounds, not the top of the 1st.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 07:58 PM
Dude, post count smack is lame, regardless of how it's used.

Sorry.

I find it pathetic.

Hope we can work past it.

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 07:58 PM
I could be wrong, but I thought Vrable had more of a rep for being a locker room guy. A leader by example type. Not sure if he is the catalyst on the field type. Either way, I think he's a good get. I look forward to his contribution.

i look forward to it also. but he wont be our leader 5 years down the road

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 08:03 PM
Sorry.

I find it pathetic.

Hope we can work past it.

come on man...nobody likes post count smack unless its claythan.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 08:04 PM
Especially when you can't get the count right. But hey, Crazy Horse knows everything!

I mean, who WOULDN'T want to pay 3rd overall cash for a guy that may or may not be an impact player, right?

So you're worried about how much money we spend now?

Why? You worried we wont be 30 million under the cap again this year?

Yet you'll spend even more money for a bench QB over spending money on a player that will see the field. Smoke another one.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 08:06 PM
come on man...nobody likes post count smack unless its claythan.

I never claimed to be a smack artist. I just call em like I see 'em. I'll try to refrain from post count smack in the future.

But does anyone really think that a person wants to hear from them 9000 fricken times in a few months? His being stupid doesn't help?

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 08:10 PM
So you're worried about how much money we spend now?

Why? You worried we wont be 30 million under the cap again this year?

Yet you'll spend even more money for a bench QB over spending money on a player that will see the field. Smoke another one.

Somewhere in the world, Todd Blackledge is toasting you.

Stafford or Sanchez over Curry at 3rd overall? All day, every day and for the rest of eternity, yes.

I don't want to go to the playoffs, see Cassel get injured, and then have to rely on Tyler Thigpen to finish the job.

Because he can't.

And now is the time to begin grooming an elite talent to succeed Cassel anyway.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 08:14 PM
Somewhere in the world, Todd Blackledge is toasting you.

Stafford or Sanchez over Curry at 3rd overall? All day, every day and for the rest of eternity, yes.

I don't want to go to the playoffs, see Cassel get injured, and then have to rely on Tyler Thigpen to finish the job.

Because he can't.

And now is the time to begin grooming an elite talent to succeed Cassel anyway.

Why is now the time?

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 08:16 PM
I never claimed to be a smack artist. I just call em like I see 'em. I'll try to refrain from post count smack in the future.

But does anyone really think that a person wants to hear from them 9000 fricken times in a few months? His being stupid doesn't help?

I hear from you 5 times a week, and that's 5 times too many as far as I'm concerned!

You can't refute my points; you haven't been able to in this entire thread.

You say "DCS is still trying to figure it out "? I've seen enough you to "figure out" that your ass-hat comes in size XXXXXXXL.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 08:17 PM
Why is now the time?

3 to 4 year age difference in Cassel and the top prospects.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 08:18 PM
I never claimed to be a smack artist.


Yes you have, but at least you truly know deep inside that you are not.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 08:19 PM
I hear from you 5 times a week, and that's 5 times too many as far as I'm concerned!

You can't refute my points; you haven't been able to in this entire thread.

You say "DCS is still trying to figure it out "? I've seen enough you to "figure out" that your ass-hat comes in size XXXXXXXL.

I refute your points. You just dont get it. It seems a though even the simplest of concepts is over your head.

Like now. You're saying intead of drafting a player we need, you'd spend 30+ mill on a bench QB. If that doesn't sound dumb to you, then you just dont get it. It's not that I cant refute it. You say spending #3 money on a player that sees the field is foolish while campaigning to spend that money on bench players.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 08:23 PM
3 to 4 year age difference in Cassel and the top prospects.

If I am following you, you are saying that 4 years is nearing the end of a QBs NFL life expectancy? So after basically 15 games starting in the NFL, it's time to groom a new QB to replace the aging Cassell?

keg in kc
03-22-2009, 08:31 PM
The age thing is a non-factor. Assuming Cassel's any good, they should get another 7 or 8 years of high-level play out of him. Which is what they'd likely get out of a top draft pick, after his first 3-4 throwaway years in the league. They've just skipped the pesky 'development' part of the program and gotten him at what's normally the start of peak play, age-wise.

Be a different story if he was 3 or 4 years older...

Saul Good
03-22-2009, 08:37 PM
3 to 4 year age difference in Cassel and the top prospects.

Actually, Cassel is about 6 years older than Stafford. If Cassel was our QB for 4 years and left after turning 31, Stafford would still only be 25.

Saul Good
03-22-2009, 08:38 PM
The age thing is a non-factor. Assuming Cassel's any good, they should get another 7 or 8 years of high-level play out of him. Which is what they'd likely get out of a top draft pick, after his first 3-4 throwaway years in the league. They've just skipped the pesky 'development' part of the program and gotten him at what's normally the start of peak play, age-wise.

Be a different story if he was 3 or 4 years older...

High level play until he's 35 is a lot to ask.

bdeg
03-22-2009, 08:40 PM
High level play until he's 35 is a lot to ask.

"Assuming Cassel's any good"

What's the average retiring age of good QB's? They have a longer NFL-life than say RB's, and generally, minus their last couple seaons and barring an injury, get better with age.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 08:52 PM
If I am following you, you are saying that 4 years is nearing the end of a QBs NFL life expectancy? So after basically 15 games starting in the NFL, it's time to groom a new QB to replace the aging Cassell?

Actually, Cassel is about 6 years older than Stafford. If Cassel was our QB for 4 years and left after turning 31, Stafford would still only be 25.

Yes! This! That's what I'm saying.

Look, here's the situation:

You've just acquired a( hopefully )better than average starter at the position.
And behind him on the bench is a mass of smelly, quivering shit at #2 and 3. If Cassel goes down, it will NOT be a "Brady to Cassel"-type scenario where you can at least have some hope of soldiering on.

Surely everyone must realize that the Pioli/Haley Chiefs will NOT be seeing another top 5 overall pick after this draft.
You've got two elite prospects on the board, and at least ONE of them will be within your grasp. Use the 3rd to acquire an exceptional athlete who is worth that kind of money, and will take the QB position off the table for the next ten years, so that you can use further drafts and trades to focus on other areas of need as they arise.

Take the chance factor completely out of the picture for the most important position on your team.


:shrug:

DeezNutz
03-22-2009, 09:00 PM
Be a different story if he was 3 or 4 years older...

And I'd feel a hell of a lot more confident if Cassel had been developing for the last 3 or 4 years, too.

ncCHIEFfan
03-22-2009, 09:07 PM
Lets see, just 1 year removed of a double digit sack DE. He was on our team for four years. How many playoff games did we win? And if I am not mistaken he was a good DE and what round was he drafted in?

Maybe we should just calm ourselves a little and just let the "EXPERTS" handle the #3 pick of the 09 draft. ....lol you guys are funny!

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 09:12 PM
Lets see, just 1 year removed of a double digit sack DE. He was on our team for four years. How many playoff games did we win? And if I am not mistaken he was a good DE and what round was he drafted in?

Maybe we should just calm ourselves a little and just let the "EXPERTS" handle the #3 pick of the 09 draft. ....lol you guys are funny!


We're used to our "experts" being not worth one damn, so I'm afraid we shall soldier on until the new regime puts us at ease through a display of draft brilliance.

Fair, yes?

KCrockaholic
03-22-2009, 09:13 PM
This thread is getting crazy. Good arguements on both sides...so far Curry is winning the votes, but this thread is turning into a mess.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 09:15 PM
Yes! This! That's what I'm saying.

Look, here's the situation:

You've just acquired a( hopefully )better than average starter at the position.
And behind him on the bench is a mass of smelly, quivering shit at #2 and 3. If Cassel goes down, it will NOT be a "Brady to Cassel"-type scenario where you can at least have some hope of soldiering on.

Surely everyone must realize that the Pioli/Haley Chiefs will NOT be seeing another top 5 overall pick after this draft.
You've got two elite prospects on the board, and at least ONE of them will be within your grasp. Use the 3rd to acquire an exceptional athlete who is worth that kind of money, and will take the QB position off the table for the next ten years, so that you can use further drafts and trades to focus on other areas of need as they arise.

Take the chance factor completely out of the picture for the most important position on your team.


:shrug:

See. This is exactly what I mean. I'm sure you think you're making a valid point. But in reality, Cassell, if successful will see another 8 years as an NFL QB. Sanchez or Stafford would be on no less than thier second contract and will have spent thier carreers on the bench. In essense, by the time they saw the field, it would be time to groom thier replacements.

Though it might sound like a good idea, the luxury of having 50 million dollar QBs on the bench in case someone goes down is an unrealistic and silly way to spend your money. especially when you can have a veteran for half the money that has game experience.

In short, it would be CRAZY IMO to draft a QB @3 given the current QB situation in KC.

For the record, the most important position on the offense is LT.

CrazyHorse
03-22-2009, 09:19 PM
This thread is getting crazy. Good arguements on both sides...so far Curry is winning the votes, but this thread is turning into a mess.

Perhaps good arguements on both sides concerning Brown or Curry.

Ridiculous arguements concerning drafting QB @3. That would mean we spent our 1st 2 draft picks in the 1st 2 rounds filling 1 position.

Darth CarlSatan
03-22-2009, 09:31 PM
See. This is exactly what I mean. I'm sure you think you're making a valid point. But in reality, Cassell, if successful will see another 8 years as an NFL QB. Sanchez or Stafford would be on no less than thier second contract and will have spent thier carreers on the bench. In essense, by the time they saw the field, it would be time to groom thier replacements.

Though it might sound like a good idea, the luxury of having 50 million dollar QBs on the bench in case someone goes down is an unrealistic and silly way to spend your money. especially when you can have a veteran for half the money that has game experience.

In short, it would be CRAZY IMO to draft a QB @3 given the current QB situation in KC.

For the record, the most important position on the offense is LT.

So Cassel will play as long as Kurt Warner because that's an everyday situation in the NFL?

You're reaching. I'll agree with you on the money, but you're reaching.

And even if you DO spend the grip, if it get's you repeat wins in the playoffs and in Championships; where's the downside?

RustShack
03-23-2009, 12:02 AM
Mayo was regarded as a reach for Pioli last year, I don' think hes afraid to "reach" in somes opinion for Brown.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 12:11 AM
As far as where a player is rated... Mayo was looked at by most as a fringe 1st rounder until Pioli took him at #10.

Definitely.

If the Patriots hadn't taken him he was gonna go to the Lions at 15...Mayo had vaulted up the board over the last month before the draft...

I still think the Pats had really targeted Rivers but then he went in front of them.

Darth CarlSatan
03-23-2009, 12:12 AM
If Cassel doesn't have an announced contract by the end of this week, he's getting flipped.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 12:29 AM
The "Definitely" wasn't referring to my own post. But ya, he had been rising. He certainly wasn't a lock for anything though, if you ask me.

Darth CarlSatan
03-23-2009, 10:04 AM
Look at the monkey's who run this league...:shake:

The NFL’s annual spring meeting began on Sunday in Dana Point, California. Based on the issues that currently confront the league, some of the owners and administrators won’t get much time to enjoy the ocean views, spa and golf course. Without even considering questions about the struggling economy that hover above all businesses these days, the owners and administrators have plenty of topics to talk about. Some are on the agenda, some are not.
For instance, just what the Denver Broncos will do with quarterback Jay Cutler or what the Carolina Panthers will do with defensive end Julius Peppers will cause a lot of conversations in the meetings rooms, hallways and tap rooms. Cutler’s situation has become well known: he wants out of Denver. The Broncos are saying they will not trade their quarterback, but then right now that’s what they have to say. Peppers is carrying the franchise player tag for the Panthers and he’s said he will not re-join the team. Sooner or later Carolina must do something with Peppers because he’s tying up too much room under the salary cap.
Those are informal discussion topics. More of those, along with some that are actually on the agenda include:
OVERTIME: The league’s Competition Committee has proposed no changes in the overtime rules, despite the fact there appears growing sentiment to allow both teams at least one possession in the extra period. One of those clubs in favor of a change are the Super Bowl champion Pittsburgh Steelers.
“We’d like to see each team get one possession,” said Steelers president Art Rooney II. “Not make it anything that has to be a dramatic change, but really just have each team get one possession before we have to get into a sudden-death situation.”
While the committee has made no proposal that does not mean that the owners cannot make a change to the rules.
RULES CHANGES: The league’s competition committee is stressing player safety issues in their proposals for changes in the rules. They want to eliminate bunch formations on kickoffs; teams would be forced to have so many players outside the numbers and so many players outside the hash marks. They also want to eliminate the blocking wedge on kickoff returns; teams could have no more than a two-man wedge. They want to eliminate helmet to helmet hits from the blind side and they also want to put in more protection for receivers who are in the air.
Those last two proposals figure to generate a bit of discussion because they will increase judgment calls by the officials. An official sees what looks like a helmet-to-helmet collision, when in fact the defensive player made contact with his shoulder.
One other change would eliminate the re-kick on an on-side attempt should there be a penalty.
INSTANT REPLAY: Last year, Ed Hochuli’s call on what was a fumble by Cutler against San Diego helped decide the game in favor of Denver. Hochuli ruled the play an incomplete pass and it could not be reviewed. A proposal would not allow the play to be reviewed by replay.
POINTS OF EMPHASIS: The Competition Committee wants ownership to approve two areas where officials would be extra vigilant: horse collar tackles and low hits on quarterbacks. The horse collar tackle has been outlawed but last year several such tackles were not penalized. The low hits on quarterbacks can almost be directly traced to Bernard Pollard’s crawling blow to Tom Brady’s knee that knocked the Patriots quarterback out for the season.
DRAFT CHANGE: In this April’s draft, the San Diego Chargers have the 16th pick in the first round, while the Indianapolis Colts have the 27th pick, this despite the fact San Diego beat Indy in the playoffs. The change would make the draft order of the final 12 spots dependent on results from the playoffs.
EXPANDED PLAYOFFS: In the past, the Chiefs were a proponent for increasing the field for the playoffs. This subject is not on the agenda.
HAIR ISSUE: Brought up last year and championed by the Chiefs organization, the rule would prohibit extra long hair coming out of the back of a player’s helmet. There’s been no discussion about this issue leading into this week’s meeting.
ROSTER SIZE: Last year, there was a lot of talk going into the meeting about the 80-man maximum roster a team could take to training camp. Some teams wanted to increase that size. But there has been no public discussion about this issue for this year.
THANKSGIVING GAMES: Teams for years have complained that Detroit and Dallas get an unfair advantage by hosting Thanksgiving Day games every year. The league says it has done research and found no advantage so it’s unlikely that there will be any more discussion on this issue.




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kcbubb
03-23-2009, 11:30 AM
I have read over some of this thread and I have seen very few arguments that have been made for Curry or Brown, so I'll make a short case for Curry who I think is the best selection at #3 if we do not trade down. My argument against Brown is that he's small for a DE at 6'2" and 255 lbs. And you have to be super quick to be productive at that size. He ran a 4.73 and he was quick for a college player, but I don't know if he will be quick enough to be a good pro. And I think he will really struggle against the big, long armed tackles in the NFL. Curry is the same size as Brown, but is MUCH MORE athletic. He's faster, more fluid and definitely quicker. Both players are a risk. But I would rather take a chance with Curry and let him try to learn to rush the QB. I would rather take a chance with a better athlete and if he fails, you can always put him at MLB where he has shown that he has an excellent chance of being a perennial pro bowler. Brown has much more bust potential. How many great rushers are that small? I know there are some and DT comes to mind, but it is rare. Curry worst case scenario is most likely being a great MLB. Here's my case for Curry. You can read more at:

http://www.nfl.com/draft/story?id=09000d5d80ef02b9&template=without-video-with-comments&confirm=true

#1) Extremely productive player:

As a redshirt sophomore, he helped the Demon Deacons win their first Atlantic Coast Conference title in 36 years, and he posted a junior campaign in which he tied the NCAA record for interception-return touchdowns by a linebacker with three. As a senior, Curry led Wake Forest with 105 tackles (16 for loss) and three fumble recoveries.

#2 Smart and mature player:

Fifth year senior that had plans of going to law school. Wake Forest is a great academic school to go to for 5-years. Smith, a potential first-round draft pick, didn't enjoy much of his press conference, in which he was peppered with questions about his diminutive stature. His face immediately lit up, though, when he was asked about Curry.
"A lot of people don't know, but Aaron Curry is probably the smartest football player in this draft," Smith said with a smile. "He understands football. He's a great leader.
"It's kind of hard to explain it. You have to see it really to understand it (his knowledge of the game and leadership)."
Vaughn enthusiastically added that Curry is a, "great, outstanding, character guy, a leader on the football field."


#3) Great athlete with a large frame at 6'2" and 254 lbs:

He ran the 40-yard dash in 4.56 seconds, recording a 37-inch vertical and tallying a 10-foot, 4-inch broad jump will prompt those reactions. His time in the 40 was faster than both top running backs and many wide receivers. Much more athletic than Brown, who is the same size as Curry.

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 11:41 AM
If we're going to run a 3-4, Brown is the better fit in every way.

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 11:47 AM
Why is that? He's the same size as Curry. And you are assuming that he will have the same success rushing the passer as he did in college. He may be too small and not quite quick enough to rush in the pros. Curry could possibly end up being a better pass rusher, because he is so much faster and more athletic.

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 11:53 AM
Why is that? He's the same size as Curry. And you are assuming that he will have the same success rushing the passer as he did in college. He may be too small and not quite quick enough to rush in the pros. Curry could possibly end up being a better pass rusher, because he is so much faster and more athletic.

One of them has demonstrated at SOME level that he can rush the passer, one of them hasn't.

Why don't we draft Curry and have him play QB? He's about the same size as Daunte Culpepper and he might end up being better because he's faster and more athletic.

DeezNutz
03-23-2009, 11:55 AM
One of them has demonstrated at SOME level that he can rush the passer, one of them hasn't.

Why don't we draft Curry and have him play QB? He's about the same size as Daunte Culpepper and he might end up being better because he's faster and more athletic.

This is the type of outside the box thinking that we value on this board. Great suggestion.

philfree
03-23-2009, 11:58 AM
Alot of people are willing to reach for a need and their own need to find the next DT. Guess what? He's not in this draft. I don't dislike Brown be out of all the talk of value and such, suddenly a reach for need is o.k.?


PhilFree:arrow:

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 12:02 PM
How many great pass rushers are that size currently???? How many are great in college and are that size????

How is Brown worth the #3 pick when he is undersized and not fast for his size??????? Brown is not worth the #3 pick.

Curry has rushed the passer some and when he has, he has been very good. He hasn't done it a lot. But he has the potential. Him being a pro bowl MLB is a pretty good option too.

DeezNutz
03-23-2009, 12:04 PM
How many great pass rushers are that size currently???? How many are great in college and are that size????

How is Brown worth the #3 pick when he is undersized and not fast for his size??????? Brown is not worth the #3 pick.

Curry has rushed the passer some and when he has, he has been very good. He hasn't done it a lot. But he has the potential. Him being a pro bowl MLB is a pretty good option too.

?

What was his success rate? In four years, was he asked to rush 11 times and thus the 9 or so sacks?

This is a very weak argument.

Chiefnj2
03-23-2009, 12:07 PM
Did they work Brown out as a LB at his pro day?

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 12:11 PM
How many great pass rushers are that size currently???? How many are great in college and are that size????

Well, Dwight Freeney was for one. He's put on a bit of weight since then, but then again he plays DE in a 4-3.

How is Brown worth the #3 pick when he is undersized and not fast for his size??????? Brown is not worth the #3 pick.

How is Curry worth the #3 pick when he doesn't rush the passer? Name the last coverage LB that was drafted in the Top 5 and see how they fared in the pros.

Curry has rushed the passer some and when he has, he has been very good. He hasn't done it a lot. But he has the potential. Him being a pro bowl MLB is a pretty good option too.

He has NINE sacks in his entire career. NINE.

And there is no MLB in a 3-4 defense.

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 12:12 PM
What is a weak argument? That he hasn't rushed a lot but does have a few sacks and when he has rushed, that he has shown potential???

come on..... it's a risk. but i would rather take a risk with a great athlete who can be a pro bowl inside LB in the 3-4 if he doesn't work out on the outside. Curry is worth the #3 pick in this draft. Maybe not every draft, but he is in this one.

Brown is not. If we are going to reach, why don't we really reach and take Connor Barwin? He's 6'5" and 255 lbs. He's a sick athlete. But he only has one year of production. I like Barwin more than Brown.

with the risk that is in this draft.... a likely pro bowl linebacker is underrated on this board even if he ends up playing inside.

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 12:13 PM
By the way, the idea that Everette Brown is not fast is pure, unadulterated BUNK.

Several scouting reports say that he might have THE fastest, most-explosive first step in the ENTIRE DRAFT.

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 12:14 PM
a likely pro bowl linebacker is underrated on this board even if he ends up playing inside.

It's not just this board.

Take a look at the ILB's and where they've been drafted over the years. The NFL agrees with us.

DeezNutz
03-23-2009, 12:19 PM
What is a weak argument? That he hasn't rushed a lot but does have a few sacks and when he has rushed, that he has shown potential???

come on..... it's a risk. but i would rather take a risk with a great athlete who can be a pro bowl inside LB in the 3-4 if he doesn't work out on the outside. Curry is worth the #3 pick in this draft. Maybe not every draft, but he is in this one.

Brown is not. If we are going to reach, why don't we really reach and take Connor Barwin? He's 6'5" and 255 lbs. He's a sick athlete. But he only has one year of production. I like Barwin more than Brown.

with the risk that is in this draft.... a likely pro bowl linebacker is underrated on this board even if he ends up playing inside.

When he has rushed he's shown great potential?

9 sacks makes your claim a stretch at the very least, and I think one's being generous to label it a weak argument.

The Bad Guy
03-23-2009, 12:22 PM
I find it hilarious all of you arguing that the Chiefs will actually take a QB with the 3rd pick.

What universe do you live on?

RustShack
03-23-2009, 12:26 PM
Wait how is Brown undersized? Last I checked he was about the perfect size for a OLB in the 3-4. He also has one of the most polished arsenals of pass rushing moves I've seen come out of college and hes only a Jr. Curry will be 30 by the time he gets those moves down if he ever does. He wont be able to blow throw people like he did in college. I agree on paper Curry without a doubt is better, but on the field Brown is a better fit.

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 12:31 PM
This is the type of outside the box thinking that we value on this board. Great suggestion.Parker learned from the best. That's the kind of foresight and vision that led to legendary Chiefs like S/LB Larry Atkins and LB/RB Boomer Grigsby.

KCrockaholic
03-23-2009, 01:09 PM
Wait how is Brown undersized? Last I checked he was about the perfect size for a OLB in the 3-4. He also has one of the most polished arsenals of pass rushing moves I've seen come out of college and hes only a Jr. Curry will be 30 by the time he gets those moves down if he ever does. He wont be able to blow throw people like he did in college. I agree on paper Curry without a doubt is better, but on the field Brown is a better fit.

How are you able to predict such things? Its amazing. Just like Matt Ryan is the next Jeff George.

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 01:13 PM
How are you able to predict such things? Its amazing. Just like Matt Ryan is the next Jeff George.I think the word is "opinion" and, believe it or not, other people are actually allowed to have them, even if they aren't the same as yours.

philfree
03-23-2009, 01:15 PM
How are you able to predict such things? Its amazing. Just like Matt Ryan is the next Jeff George.

No kidding. He got it backwards anyway. Curry is the better player on the field and Brown is a better fit for the Chiefs on paper. IMO that's more accurate.


PhilFree:arrow:

bdeg
03-23-2009, 01:15 PM
Wait how is Brown undersized? Last I checked he was about the perfect size for a OLB in the 3-4. He also has one of the most polished arsenals of pass rushing moves I've seen come out of college and hes only a Jr. Curry will be 30 by the time he gets those moves down if he ever does. He wont be able to blow throw people like he did in college. I agree on paper Curry without a doubt is better, but on the field Brown is a better fit.

Yup, I pretty much agree with this.

James Harrison is 6'0, Brown's size won't hold him back.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 01:16 PM
No matter how good you think Pat Willis is, their inability to find a pass rusher has made their defense blow.

philfree
03-23-2009, 01:17 PM
I think the word is "opinion" and, believe it or not, other people are actually allowed to have them, even if they aren't the same as yours.

He didn't express his views as opinion. He expressed them in a matter of fact kind of way.


PhilFree:arrow:

Chiefnj2
03-23-2009, 01:18 PM
IMO, the only way Pioli doesn't take Curry is if the Rams take him first, or there is a big move by someone wanting Stafford at #3.

htismaqe
03-23-2009, 01:19 PM
How are you able to predict such things? Its amazing. Just like Matt Ryan is the next Jeff George.

Kind of like predicting Curry will be a stud pass rusher when there's absolutely ZERO history suggesting that he can...

Mecca
03-23-2009, 01:20 PM
IMO, the only way Pioli doesn't take Curry is if the Rams take him first, or there is a big move by someone wanting Stafford at #3.

Because the Patriots built their team using a bunch of super high picks on LB's.....oh wait.

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 01:20 PM
He didn't express his views as opinion. He expressed them in a matter of fact kind of way. It's not a question of expressing your own, it's a matter of respecting other people's. And he isn't the only one, on either side of the question, that has trouble with that concept, not by a long shot.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 01:21 PM
Kind of like predicting Curry will be a stud pass rusher when there's absolutely ZERO history suggesting that he can...

Our fan base loves the least valuable positions, that's what I've come to realize.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 01:23 PM
Our fan base loves the least valuable positions, that's what I've come to realize.

NFL teams just figured out the RB position was expendable, you expect the casual fan to keep up?

It really just takes some thought, but the idea wouldn't even occur to most fans.

philfree
03-23-2009, 01:24 PM
It's not a question of expressing your own, it's a matter of respecting other people's. And he isn't the only one, on either side of the question, that has trouble with that concept, not by a long shot.


Agreed. But there are alot of opinions here that are presented as facts.


PhilFree:arrow:

Darth CarlSatan
03-23-2009, 01:26 PM
I find it hilarious all of you arguing that the Chiefs will actually take a QB with the 3rd pick.

What universe do you live on?

The one where Cassel get's flipped like an Aunt Jemimah Pancake.

Time for some Hee Haw flashback:

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/1168243517.jpg

"Where, oh where, is the contract",
"Why did it leave us here all alone"...

"The mor-on crew thought that the deal was a done one",
"Pioli flipped Cassel and :p; he was gone"!

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 01:26 PM
Our fan base loves the least valuable positions, that's what I've come to realize.That's what happens when DTs the only superstar you have at an impact position for 20 years, aside from a brief rental of Joe Montana after his expiration date. Hell, they talk about Donnie the drag Edwards like he's the greatest LB ever to throw on pads.

That's also why they become attached to the Mike Maslowski's of the world. The top underdog.

philfree
03-23-2009, 01:28 PM
Because the Patriots built their team using a bunch of super high picks on LB's.....oh wait.


IMO he'll pick Curry under those circumstances because he knows how important it is not to miss with the Chiefs 1st round pick in the 2009 draft, the #3 pick overall and his first pick as the Chiefs GM. And that's not taking the safe pick it's taking the smart pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 01:29 PM
I think he doesn't pick at 3 at all, because the patriots have come to realize it's better value not to.

Darth CarlSatan
03-23-2009, 01:30 PM
That's what happens when DTs the only superstar you have at an impact position for 20 years, aside from a brief rental of Joe Montana after his expiration date. Hell, they talk about Donnie the drag Edwards like he's the greatest LB ever to throw on pads.

That's also why they become attached to the Mike Maslowski's of the world. The top underdog.

That is just sickening.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 01:35 PM
IMO he'll pick Curry under those circumstances because he knows how important it is not to miss with the Chiefs 1st round pick in the 2009 draft, the #3 pick overall and his first pick as the Chiefs GM. And that's not taking the safe pick it's taking the smart pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

Aaron Curry's best upside doesn't give the Chiefs all that much...he plays an expendable position.

philfree
03-23-2009, 01:51 PM
Aaron Curry's best upside doesn't give the Chiefs all that much...he plays an expendable position.


No position is expendable. As far as what he can give the Chiefs is concerned we won't know that unless we draft him. I'm not just stuck on Curry either I just think that there's to much importence being placed on positional value in regards to this draft. If we can't trade down and we reach for a player at a position of need our chances for a bust increase greatly. Brown is a huge reach at the third pick. If Pioli picks Brown with that pick then I'll get on board but I don't think he will. And FWIW I'm wary of Brown becoming the next Tamba Hali. Not a bad player but not the type of player worthy of a low 1st round pick. He is what you see now and he doesn't have alot of room for growth. He's close to maxed out.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
03-23-2009, 01:56 PM
No position is expendable really?

And Brown is nothing like Tamba Hali, Brown is a freak athlete with an explosive first step and several pass rush moves, Tamba Hali works hard without all that much talent.

philfree
03-23-2009, 02:02 PM
No position is expendable really?

And Brown is nothing like Tamba Hali, Brown is a freak athlete with an explosive first step and several pass rush moves, Tamba Hali works hard without all that much talent.


One thing they have in common is that in the year that each were in the draft part of each players profile is that they don't have much room left for growth so there's a good chance they could be maxed out. With Hali it proved to be true we won't know about Brown until he's playing in the league. So in your opinion is Brown worth the 3rd pick in this draft? At this point IMO he's not.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:04 PM
Just be frank, no one is worth the 3rd pick now because our team saw fit to trade for a QB.

philfree
03-23-2009, 02:09 PM
Just be frank, no one is worth the 3rd pick now because our team saw fit to trade for a QB.

I feel like I should offer you a box of tissues or something. That's the one thing about the draft, it's always on a curve.


PhilFree:arrow:

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 02:18 PM
One thing they have in common is that in the year that each were in the draft part of each players profile is that they don't have much room left for growth so there's a good chance they could be maxed out. With Hali it proved to be true we won't know about Brown until he's playing in the league. So in your opinion is Brown worth the 3rd pick in this draft? At this point IMO he's not. I think the maxed-out physically thing would only be an issue for Brown (if it's an issue at all) for a 4-3 team looking to use him as a pure end. We're talking about using him as rush linebacker. And I've seen conflicting reports on the idea that he's maxed out his frame.

Beyond that, athletically speaking, he's on a whole 'nother tier above Hali.

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 02:21 PM
No position is expendable really?

And Brown is nothing like Tamba Hali, Brown is a freak athlete with an explosive first step and several pass rush moves, Tamba Hali works hard without all that much talent.

how is brown a freak athlete????

he did two things at the combine.. the 40 and the broad jump. here's the results.

The 40 all the guys that out ran Brown are bigger than him. Michael Johnson that was a little slower but is 6'7" 266 lbs.

Name Time
Sidbury Jr., Lawrence 4.64
Barwin, Connor 4.66
Orakpo, Brian 4.70
Brown, Everette 4.73
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Sulak, Stryker 4.77
Brown, Cody 4.84
Butler, Victor 4.84
Veikune, David 4.87
Gilbert, Jarron 4.87



Broad Jump
Barwin, Connor 10'8"
Johnson, Michael 10'8"
Maybin, Aaron 10'4"
Sidbury Jr., Lawrence 10'0"
Brown, Cody 10'0"
Gilbert, Jarron 9'11"
Egboh, Pannel 9'8"
Davis, Will 9'7"
Walker, Derek 9'7"
Brown, Everette 9'6"

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:23 PM
Ah yes his combine workout is far more important than watching his first step...

Maybe it's just me but I don't give a shit about his 40 time, a rushers 40 time to me is retarded if he has to run 40 yards your defense has a serious problem.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 02:24 PM
how is brown a freak athlete????

he did two things at the combine.. the 40 and the broad jump. here's the results.

The 40 all the guys that out ran Brown are bigger than him. Michael Johnson that was a little slower but is 6'7" 266 lbs.

Name Time
Sidbury Jr., Lawrence 4.64
Barwin, Connor 4.66
Orakpo, Brian 4.70
Brown, Everette 4.73
Johnson, Michael 4.75
Sulak, Stryker 4.77
Brown, Cody 4.84
Butler, Victor 4.84
Veikune, David 4.87
Gilbert, Jarron 4.87



Broad Jump
Barwin, Connor 10'8"
Johnson, Michael 10'8"
Maybin, Aaron 10'4"
Sidbury Jr., Lawrence 10'0"
Brown, Cody 10'0"
Gilbert, Jarron 9'11"
Egboh, Pannel 9'8"
Davis, Will 9'7"
Walker, Derek 9'7"
Brown, Everette 9'6"

OK, so top 10 in both out of how many players?

bdeg
03-23-2009, 02:25 PM
Ah yes his combine workout is far more important than watching his first step...

Maybe it's just me but I don't give a shit about his 40 time, a rushers 40 time to me is retarded if he has to run 40 yards your defense has a serious problem.

Seriously. It's even funnier when people use 40 times to evaluate OL.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:25 PM
This is so funny, how many people talking about him have watched him.

If you watch him in games the first things you think are explosive, fast, and an array of pass rush moves.

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 02:30 PM
OK, so top 10 in both out of how many players?

that's all they list. he may have a good first step and he may be a good pass rusher, but to say he is a freak is ridiculous. I don't see why people are enamored with this guy. He's little. He may be a player. But at #3 you take studs.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers?tabIndex=3#tp-tab-set-1:tp-grid-container-forty-yard-dash

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 02:31 PM
Seriously. It's even funnier when people use 40 times to evaluate OL.

nobody said that. mecca said Brown was a freak athlete. He's not. he may be a good player but he is not a freak athlete.

Chiefnj2
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
Tamba Hali had faster 20 yard shuttles and 3 cone times than Brown.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
nobody said that. mecca said Brown was a freak athlete. He's not. he may be a good player but he is not a freak athlete.
People have said that on here before, I wasn't referring to you.

Not a freak athlete on the track or on the football field?

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:35 PM
that's all they list. he may have a good first step and he may be a good pass rusher, but to say he is a freak is ridiculous. I don't see why people are enamored with this guy. He's little. He may be a player. But at #3 you take studs.

http://www.nfl.com/combine/top-performers?tabIndex=3#tp-tab-set-1:tp-grid-container-forty-yard-dash

Well people are enamored with Brian Orakpo because he spends more time lifting weights than he does learning how to play his position.

And who are these supposed studs this year? I'll wait as I'm given a player that plays a minimally valuable position.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Tamba Hali had faster 20 yard shuttles and 3 cone times than Brown.

So he has fine change of direction ability.

His broadjump, which can be a decent indicator for first step, was very lacking at 8'10 and that was at his proday so it might be a little inflated, couldn't find a record for the combine.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Tamba Hali had faster 20 yard shuttles and 3 cone times than Brown.

Go back and watch their college tapes and compare them, Hali never once looked as fast or as explosive or displayed the moves Brown does.

philfree
03-23-2009, 02:37 PM
Well people are enamored with Brian Orakpo because he spends more time lifting weights than he does learning how to play his position.

And who are these supposed studs this year? I'll wait as I'm given a player that plays a minimally valuable position.

Curry's a stud.


PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:40 PM
Curry's a stud.


PhilFree:arrow:

And my point is proven.

bdeg
03-23-2009, 02:42 PM
Go back and watch their college tapes and compare them, Hali never once looked as fast or as explosive or displayed the moves Brown does.

It's so simple, I really don't understand where these comparisons come from.

"Not another DE, Tamba sucked!"

Chiefnj2
03-23-2009, 02:45 PM
Go back and watch their college tapes and compare them, Hali never once looked as fast or as explosive or displayed the moves Brown does.

Brown is very explosive and has a great first step. I said that months ago. I'm just pointing out that from a pure athleticism point of view Hali was able to put up good numbers.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:47 PM
That's one thing to really like about Brown is he understands pass rushing...he has developed a wide array of moves that he knows how to use and set up OTs with.

He has more moves right now than many NFL guys do.

CrazyHorse
03-23-2009, 02:49 PM
So now the arguement is to draft a DE, convert him to LB because he can rush the passer? Instead of taking the natural LB who happens to be the most diverse best LB in the draft?

As I've stated before. The majority of folks now argueing Brown were those so against Curry in the "Curry vs. Sanchez" debates. Now that Sanchez is almost certainly out of the picture, you guys will make any arguement as long as it's not one for Curry.

Even if that means drafting a 1 dimensional converted DE who is a reach. Over the best player in this years draft that, oh yeah........plays LB.

Jeez. It's so transparent.

CrazyHorse
03-23-2009, 02:50 PM
That's one thing to really like about Brown is he understands pass rushing...he has developed a wide array of moves that he knows how to use and set up OTs with.

He has more moves right now than many NFL guys do.

And what do you like about Curry?

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 02:50 PM
Well people are enamored with Brian Orakpo because he spends more time lifting weights than he does learning how to play his position.

And who are these supposed studs this year? I'll wait as I'm given a player that plays a minimally valuable position.


there aren't any. not a great draft this year. you are right. that's why Curry is the pick. and I understand position value. but I also realize that a good player is better than bust. especially at a position of need for this team. can you name the chiefs LBs??? are you impressed?? not every LB will rush the passer.

And I am still not convinced that Curry can't rush. He is a much better athlete than Brown and would be more of a straight speed rusher. which at 6'2" 255 Brown is going to have to be a mostly speed rusher too. The NFL lineman are a little better than the ACC lineman. Brown is probably going to have a tough time. He's not going to be so "quick".

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:51 PM
OLB's in the 3-4 were DE's you dunce.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:51 PM
And what do you like about Curry?

He's a non rush cover backer that plays in the middle in a 3-4...which makes him not all that valuable, it's real hard to understand something that has been said a million times I'm sure.

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 02:55 PM
Brown played all over FSU's front seven, he played both with his hand on the ground and standing up, he even played in coverage in zone blitz schemes. He's not going to be a project in that regard.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 02:56 PM
That "curry is actually a LB' argument really makes my brain hurt...

Terrell Suggs, DaMarcus Ware and so on were college DE's that transitioned to OLB in the 3-4.

Logic is overrated around here.

keg in kc
03-23-2009, 02:59 PM
That "curry is actually a LB' argument really makes my brain hurt...It's the "Curry or bust" crowd switching targets from Sanchez to Brown.

Mecca
03-23-2009, 03:00 PM
It's the "Curry or bust" crowd switching targets from Sanchez to Brown.

Our fan base loves guys who play expendable positions, I can't wait for when Gonzalez retires and I have to read people who want to use a top 10 pick on a tight end.

CrazyHorse
03-23-2009, 03:01 PM
He's a non rush cover backer that plays in the middle in a 3-4...which makes him not all that valuable, it's real hard to understand something that has been said a million times I'm sure.

Dont get so defensive. I was giving you an opportunity to at least look like you were making a point without an agenda.

You failed. Similar to your Sanchez tirades. Lacking in facts and laced in made up BS that serves your agenda. You speak of all these transitions your players will make when they make the NFL, while argueing other players cannot make transitions. You just make it up as you go. All the while thumping yourself on the chest self proclaiming your football genius.

Fact is you dont know shit about Curry. You cant tell me whether he can rush the passer. Any more than you know what a cover LB is. You somehow think a tweener drafted as a LB is better than the actual best LB in the draft.

Just because you say something a million times, doesn't make it so.

For the record, when Sanchez busts, I'll be here to wear your ass out. Just like you have worn everyone else out with your arrogant BS.

kcbubb
03-23-2009, 03:02 PM
He's a non rush cover backer that plays in the middle in a 3-4...which makes him not all that valuable, it's real hard to understand something that has been said a million times I'm sure.

if you are choosing between 2 good football players. I would rather choose the better athlete and teach them to rush than assume the inferior athlete will have success in the NFL.

how can you assume that Brown will be a good pass rusher in the NFL with his size and inferior athletic ability according to combine results??? bc he looked real fast against acc lineman???

you act like he's a lock at rushing bc he's rushed before. he's not. he could be a bust. he could be worse than Tamba. At least Tamba is good vs the run. with Brown's size he can't play 4-3 end. no chance vs the run. he's limited to playing 3-4 OLB. with Curry he can play anywhere in either system.

MVChiefFan
03-23-2009, 03:05 PM
I have to go with Brown on this one. I know Curry is solid and is probably the "safest" pick. But, I think Brown has more of the explosive/game changing ability that this defense needs.

DeezNutz
03-23-2009, 03:05 PM
How many examples are there of 4 year collegiate players who record less than 10 sacks becoming successful pass rushers in the NFL?

philfree
03-23-2009, 03:06 PM
So now the arguement is to draft a DE, convert him to LB because he can rush the passer? Instead of taking the natural LB who happens to be the most diverse best LB in the draft?

As I've stated before. The majority of folks now argueing Brown were those so against Curry in the "Curry vs. Sanchez" debates. Now that Sanchez is almost certainly out of the picture, you guys will make any arguement as long as it's not one for Curry.

Even if that means drafting a 1 dimensional converted DE who is a reach. Over the best player in this years draft that, oh yeah........plays LB.

Jeez. It's so transparent.


LOL Agreed!


PhilFree:arrow: