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View Full Version : Economics Outsourcing the Drive-Thru


petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:20 AM
Yep, that is right....places are turning to actually outsourcing the "ordering" portion of the drive-thru. How sad is this, really? Are we saying the people that actually work at the physical building are not capable of taking orders? Or that it costs too much money for them to do so?

So now as if it is hard enough to understand the Mexicans when they ask for your order...sounds like you will have to learn to understand Indians as well. Welcome to ****ing America.....your job is 15000 miles away from here.

I would think that the time spent in screwed up orders or computer info traffic would raise the costs beyond belief. But speaking from experience, most corporate bean-coutners don't want to hear that. They think it won't\can't happen and they outsource anyway. Only to learn the hard way it costs more in the long run.

Fox Business is getting ready to do a little piece in this here soon this morning.

To coin a phrase I believe Ron Paul uses yesterday in the Gethner\Bernanke testimony, this is "gross capitalism". I may not have his exact quote right but it is to the same point.

Sully
03-25-2009, 10:21 AM
A guy I worked with said he ran into this in Cape Girardeau a couple of years back at a McDonald's.

I can see where it'd be somewhat more efficient, but I can also see how insanely annoying it could be.
I can't imagine a place like Taco Bell could get my orders wrong any more than they already do, though.

petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:34 AM
A guy I worked with said he ran into this in Cape Girardeau a couple of years back at a McDonald's.

I can see where it'd be somewhat more efficient, but I can also see how insanely annoying it could be.
I can't imagine a place like Taco Bell could get my orders wrong any more than they already do, though.


Yea, but it just portrays the state of which this country has deteriorated too. I mean, when you can't even have the person at the food place take your order it just says something is really wrong with this country.

Of course my conspiracy theory on it all is that we will have so many non-english speaking people actually working at the physical resteraunt, you are going to have to outsource the order taking just to be able to conduct business.

Nonetheless I think this is just a sad, sad deal.

Radar Chief
03-25-2009, 10:53 AM
Considering the toothless derelicts I saw working the McD’s drive through last Sunday this is probably a good thing. I doubt they can screw up an order any worse.

petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:58 AM
I guess Exit 41 is the company that does this. They also do Web Ordering and Call-Ahead type stuff. That part I can understand. But the drive-thru? Wendy's I guess is one of their clients and I will not go to another Wendy's ever again. It is a matter of principle. What a shit way to provide customer service. And that is my overall point Customer Service has gone to pot over the last decade and it is because of shit like this.

Brock
03-25-2009, 11:02 AM
I've said it before when this was posted a month ago, but you should be able to just drive up and push some buttons on a menu.

petegz28
03-25-2009, 11:04 AM
I've said it before when this was posted a month ago, but you should be able to just drive up and push some buttons on a menu.

Tht I would go for. Nothing wrong with self-service.

Fish
03-25-2009, 11:19 AM
On a related note, I find it ironic that McDonald's can't afford to pay a decent enough wage to attract competent workers, but yet they can afford to have a giant rotating Mongoloid attracting Batlight on all night shining from the roofs of their buildings.

Jenson71
03-25-2009, 11:40 AM
Tht I would go for. Nothing wrong with self-service.

Well petegz, I have to wonder. In both cases, the American worker loses his or her job. And in only the earlier case does at least someone in the world earn a paycheck to help feed their family.

What does this tell us? We can't deny that almost any job that does not have to be done directly in person-to-person can and might be outsourced to third world countries to save corporate burdens. Whereas once this affected blue collar workers in manufacturing, this is now increasingly even including say...stock brokering or accounting. All that stuff can be done through satellite.

What's the solution? How do we protect Americans who want to provide and support for a family or even just themselves, which is probably the case for the average McDonalds worker? Tough questions with no easy answers.

DaKCMan AP
03-25-2009, 11:40 AM
On a related note, I find it ironic that McDonald's can't afford to pay a decent enough wage to attract competent workers, but yet they can afford to have a giant rotating Mongoloid attracting Batlight on all night shining from the roofs of their buildings.

McDonald's does the country a favor by hiring incompetent morons to serve ignorant fatties.

Brock
03-25-2009, 12:40 PM
Well petegz, I have to wonder. In both cases, the American worker loses his or her job. And in only the earlier case does at least someone in the world earn a paycheck to help feed their family.

Gas pump jockeys everywhere agree with you. Or they would, if they hadn't all went away 30 years ago and nobody cared.

Tell you what, get all the illegal construction workers out of this country and the people who depend on these kinds of shit jobs to get by can go learn a real trade requiring real skills.

alpha_omega
03-25-2009, 12:44 PM
So....will it lower the price of the super-sized #5?

Jenson71
03-25-2009, 01:10 PM
Gas pump jockeys everywhere agree with you. Or they would, if they hadn't all went away 30 years ago and nobody cared.

Tell you what, get all the illegal construction workers out of this country and the people who depend on these kinds of shit jobs to get by can go learn a real trade requiring real skills.

You're right, some jobs just go out of existence, like the gas pump jockey and the barber and the milkman, and the TV repairman. And the day will probably come when all you do is just press a button and the McRib comes out of the slot like a vending machine, made by robots, delivered by robots. I doubt we'll ever reflect on the good ol days when teenagers and drop outs served up burgers at the corporate shitfest that was/is McDonalds. And though we should protect workers, we shouldn't strain ourselves to live perpetually stuck in the 1950s. Careers quickly come and go, especially in today's market, and that often is due to progress in technology, science, communications, etc.

blaise
03-25-2009, 01:35 PM
There's still gas jockeys in New Jersey- I think they have a law against self service gas for some reason. It's a pain in the ass, really. You have to sit there and wait for someone to pump your gas.
I'll believe outsourced drive-thrus when I see them, but if it happens I don't begrudge the companies. They need to do what they need to do to stay in business and pay expenses.

BigChiefFan
03-25-2009, 01:40 PM
You think you get bad service now. Just wait until they fuck up an order.

blaise
03-25-2009, 01:40 PM
I guess Exit 41 is the company that does this. They also do Web Ordering and Call-Ahead type stuff. That part I can understand. But the drive-thru? Wendy's I guess is one of their clients and I will not go to another Wendy's ever again. It is a matter of principle. What a shit way to provide customer service. And that is my overall point Customer Service has gone to pot over the last decade and it is because of shit like this.

I think in some cases customer service has gone to pot, but I think a lot of that can be blamed on customers. I think a lot of people these days are whiny and complain just to get stuff for free. People go into a restaurant and say the food sucks, or the service was crappy, just so they can get a discount, or get the meal comp'd. And the managers don't back the employees. So the employees get jaded and say, F the customers.

Brock
03-25-2009, 01:46 PM
You think you get bad service now. Just wait until they **** up an order.

Just like they already do, you mean?

blaise
03-25-2009, 01:52 PM
I bet the people in India will like hearing a bunch of Americans ordering up double beef cheeseburgers all day.
"I'll have your sacred animal with extra bacon and pickles, please."

banyon
03-25-2009, 01:53 PM
This is the end result of 20 years of shipping out decent jobs but allowing those same companies to utilize our markets then to sell their products. People need to realize that there are more than enough Chinese and Indian laborers to do every job in this country that is possible to be outsourced and for only a fraction of the cost. Using the logic of outsourcing, almost everyone is at risk unless we approach this differently, even apparently teenagers at the drive thru.

orange
03-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Yea, but it just portrays the state of which this country has deteriorated too. I mean, when you can't even have the person at the food place take your order it just says something is really wrong with this country.



May I suggest getting out of your car and going inside? ROFL

vailpass
03-25-2009, 01:54 PM
Is this for real? I can't believe this.

Sully
03-25-2009, 02:08 PM
May I suggest getting out of your car and going inside? ROFL

Like we have any idea what citizenship Grimace holds.

blaise
03-25-2009, 02:09 PM
They should just go ahead and accept food stamps at McDonalds.

banyon
03-25-2009, 02:16 PM
Like we have any idea what citizenship Grimace holds.

McDonald's Unveils Healthier Image
April 21, 2004 | Issue 40•16

Last week, McDonald's announced plans to offer healthier menu items and encourage its customers to get more exercise. What do you think?

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo4.article.jpg
Donna Alexander,
Lab Assistant
"Their new 'infrasized meals,' where you can get one-third the food for an extra 99 cents, are definitely a step in the right direction."

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo2.article.jpg
Jesse Perry,
Audiologist
"Every location should have an amusement-park-style plywood Grimace that says, 'You cannot enter this McDonald's if you're more than this wide.'"

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo3.article.jpg
Martin Bryant,
Systems Analyst
"Those McDonald's anti-obesity campaign materials are soon to be the prized possessions of every hipster from here to Tacoma."

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo1.article.jpg
Bobby Melvin,
Nurse
"I think it's brave. McDonald's is a very brave corporation."

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo6.article.jpg
Tonia Coleman,
Promotions Manager
"I guess those playlands don't provide as solid a total-body workout as previously thought."

http://www.theonion.com/content/files/images/wdyt_photo5.article.jpg
Adam H. Ross,
Sales Clerk
"Man, you can already smell the greasy stench of guilt every time you walk into a McDonald's. Do they have to lay more on?"

AustinChief
03-25-2009, 02:17 PM
Well petegz, I have to wonder. In both cases, the American worker loses his or her job. And in only the earlier case does at least someone in the world earn a paycheck to help feed their family.



NO, someone somewhere has to design, build and install that automated system. Most likely it wasa designed here, built overseas, definitely installed by a local worker and supported by a local worker.

In the end an automated system keeps more labor dollars at home than the outsourced solution.

Ultra Peanut
03-25-2009, 02:24 PM
Yea, but it just portrays the state of which this country has deteriorated too. I mean, when you can't even have the person at the food place take your order it just says something is really wrong with this country.Competence is not why outsourcing exists.

Calcountry
03-25-2009, 02:33 PM
Yep, that is right....places are turning to actually outsourcing the "ordering" portion of the drive-thru. How sad is this, really? Are we saying the people that actually work at the physical building are not capable of taking orders? Or that it costs too much money for them to do so?

So now as if it is hard enough to understand the Mexicans when they ask for your order...sounds like you will have to learn to understand Indians as well. Welcome to ****ing America.....your job is 15000 miles away from here.

I would think that the time spent in screwed up orders or computer info traffic would raise the costs beyond belief. But speaking from experience, most corporate bean-coutners don't want to hear that. They think it won't\can't happen and they outsource anyway. Only to learn the hard way it costs more in the long run.

Fox Business is getting ready to do a little piece in this here soon this morning.

To coin a phrase I believe Ron Paul uses yesterday in the Gethner\Bernanke testimony, this is "gross capitalism". I may not have his exact quote right but it is to the same point.Is this any different than the way Obama does his speeches?

:shrug:

petegz28
03-25-2009, 02:39 PM
Competence is not why outsourcing exists.

In this case I will say bullshit. So "bullshit".

Jilly
03-25-2009, 02:40 PM
A guy I worked with said he ran into this in Cape Girardeau a couple of years back at a McDonald's.

I can see where it'd be somewhat more efficient, but I can also see how insanely annoying it could be.
I can't imagine a place like Taco Bell could get my orders wrong any more than they already do, though.

you and your weird ordering

vailpass
03-25-2009, 03:00 PM
Cool. You can insult the guy at the drive-thru and he can't spit in your food.

petegz28
03-25-2009, 03:04 PM
Cool. You can insult the guy at the drive-thru and he can't spit in your food.

Let me have a litre of cola!!

blaise
03-25-2009, 03:07 PM
I was in a McDonalds eating the other night and the line for the Redbox was at least 6 deep the whole time. Whoever came up with that idea is a genius.

banyon
03-25-2009, 03:12 PM
NO, someone somewhere has to design, build and install that automated system. Most likely it wasa designed here, built overseas, definitely installed by a local worker and supported by a local worker.

In the end an automated system keeps more labor dollars at home than the outsourced solution.

I'm sure they would outsource the design and manufacture of the automated system probably as well.

vailpass
03-25-2009, 03:15 PM
I was in a McDonalds eating the other night and the line for the Redbox was at least 6 deep the whole time. Whoever came up with that idea is a genius.

What is a redbox?

blaise
03-25-2009, 03:21 PM
What is a redbox?

It's a vending machine they have in some McDonalds. You rent movies out of it for a dollar a night.

Hydrae
03-25-2009, 03:26 PM
It's a vending machine they have in some McDonalds. You rent movies out of it for a dollar a night.

They have them at Wal-Mart's here also and there is always someone at one of them if not both. Frickin' gold mines.

Ultra Peanut
03-25-2009, 04:02 PM
In this case I will say bullshit. So "bullshit".Here's a job anyone with a minimal amount of training can do. You can pay one pool of applicants minimum wage, or another pool of applicants $0.87 an hour.

Who are you going to hire?

petegz28
03-25-2009, 05:31 PM
Here's a job anyone with a minimal amount of training can do. You can pay one pool of applicants minimum wage, or another pool of applicants $0.87 an hour.

Who are you going to hire?

Again, the concept of customer service seems to be lost on you. I guess we should just revert to slavery and have people who work for bread, water, and a wool blanket to cover themselves too, heh?

Ultra Peanut
03-25-2009, 05:37 PM
Again, the concept of customer service seems to be lost on you. I guess we should just revert to slavery and have people who work for bread, water, and a wool blanket to cover themselves too, heh?If the "free market" had its way, sure.

You seemed to be arguing that it was some sort of indication that the common worker was unskilled or otherwise so bad at manning the drive-through that corporations would rather hire labor from overseas. I was just saying that the ability of the workers is less important to these corporations than their own ability to pay a lot less for completion of the same task, rather than there being some sort of intrinsic fault with the American wage slave.

HonestChieffan
03-25-2009, 06:27 PM
If minimum wage was not so high maybe McD's wouldnt have to go looking for a way to do the job cheaper....

Hydrae
03-25-2009, 06:43 PM
If minimum wage was not so high maybe McD's wouldnt have to go looking for a way to do the job cheaper....

I don't know about other parts of the country but you would be hard pressed to find a minimum wage job here in Austin. I noticed a sign at lunch today at a convenience store, they are hiring starting at $8.90 an hour.

Jenson71
03-25-2009, 06:50 PM
If minimum wage was not so high maybe McD's wouldnt have to go looking for a way to do the job cheaper....

LMAO

I really doubt that.

Baby Lee
03-25-2009, 06:53 PM
Again, the concept of customer service seems to be lost on you. I guess we should just revert to slavery and have people who work for bread, water, and a wool blanket to cover themselves too, heh?

It's a freaking squawk box that turns your words into button mashing. It's not like they detail your car while you wait.
"Where has the American Dream gone, when the kid who pushes the button with the picture corresponding to the sammiche you want can't live in comfort and security on the wages derived therefrom."

HonestChieffan
03-25-2009, 06:54 PM
LMAO

I really doubt that.

You doubt that requiring minimum wages that exceed the value added by the job causes employers to seek alternatives? (Look up law of diminishing returns, study marginal values, basic econ)

Seriously, if the job of saying welcome to mcdonalds can I take your order costs McD's more than the job is worth, wouldn't you expect them to automate or deliver the same sorry food at a lower cost?

Jenson71
03-25-2009, 06:59 PM
You doubt that requiring minimum wages that exceed the value added by the job causes employers to seek alternatives? (Look up law of diminishing returns, study marginal values, basic econ)

Seriously, if the job of saying welcome to mcdonalds can I take your order costs McD's more than the job is worth, wouldn't you expect them to automate or deliver the same sorry food at a lower cost?

I think McDonalds would be looking for ways to reduce spending no matter what the minimum wage was. Say it was $3 instead of the 'outrageously enormous' $7.25. They're going to make the jump to India if the opportunity is $2. What are we supposed to do then? Lower the minimum wage to $1?

You make it sound like they are being squeezed til they're blue because of the $7-9 their worker gets every hour.

blaise
03-25-2009, 07:10 PM
I think McDonalds would be looking for ways to reduce spending no matter what the minimum wage was. Say it was $3 instead of the 'outrageously enormous' $7.25. They're going to make the jump to India if the opportunity is $2. What are we supposed to do then? Lower the minimum wage to $1?

You make it sound like they are being squeezed til they're blue because of the $7-9 their worker gets every hour.

You can't deny that there's some economists that believe raising the minimum wage causes effects like inflation. I'm not saying the minimum wage is the direct cause of this but I don't see how it's laughable either.

banyon
03-25-2009, 07:25 PM
You can't deny that there's some economists that believe raising the minimum wage causes effects like inflation. I'm not saying the minimum wage is the direct cause of this but I don't see how it's laughable either.

It is laughable. The last two times the minimum wage was raised, the impact on inflation and unemployment was not an observable phenomenon.

But, of course you ignore Jenson's valid point about how no one can really afford to race to the bottom with the most desperate group of people a corporation can find.

wild1
03-25-2009, 07:30 PM
This isn't some IT job. The Indians can learn "hamburger" "cheeseburger" "french fries" and do it with accuracy.

banyon
03-25-2009, 07:34 PM
This isn't some IT job. The Indians can learn "hamburger" "cheeseburger" "french fries" and do it with accuracy.

What are you talking about? Is this some kind of joke?

wild1
03-25-2009, 07:39 PM
What are you talking about? Is this some kind of joke?

this

I would think that the time spent in screwed up orders or computer info traffic would raise the costs beyond belief.

banyon
03-25-2009, 07:42 PM
this

So, when you go to a restaurant, you generally limit yourself to three words or less then?

HonestChieffan
03-25-2009, 07:48 PM
Bush caused this. I don't understand all the angst over it. Bad George, bad. Oh wait, its to early for that...

We raised minimum wage what a year ago? So how can we just assume that there were not some jobs like the McD dude that says can I take your order didnt get let go when Minimum wage went up? Its absurd to assume minimum wage increases do not impact employment at the lowest levels of wage earners. Thats political BS that is always spouted by the left when people object to raising the minimum wage.

banyon
03-25-2009, 07:58 PM
If someone else made those points I might be inclined to discuss it with them.

And of course no one whined about Bush but you, because its one of the only two or three cards you have to play. I guess you feel you have to play it, even if no one is talking about it in the thread.

wild1
03-25-2009, 08:48 PM
So, when you go to a restaurant, you generally limit yourself to three words or less then?

We're talking about a drive-thru. I generally say, 'give me a #3', and tell them what drink I want. Then I drive up to the window.

I doubt people would object if some kind of an ATM-like interface took your order, so why would people complain if someone in India is doing it instead?

banyon
03-25-2009, 09:14 PM
We're talking about a drive-thru. I generally say, 'give me a #3', and tell them what drink I want. Then I drive up to the window.

I doubt people would object if some kind of an ATM-like interface took your order, so why would people complain if someone in India is doing it instead?

I guess the same reason I would object when I talk to them on a customer service call. They're difficult to understand and have a tough time understanding you.

It's going to be like the John Belushi "cheburger" restaurant.


"could I get some extra ketchup?"

"Cheeburger?"

"no ketchup"

"2 cheeburger."

No, ketchup"

"no catsup, cheeburger"

HonestChieffan
03-25-2009, 09:18 PM
People who have accents cannot be trusted. They need people who sound like 'mericans.

banyon
03-25-2009, 09:20 PM
People who have accents cannot be trusted. They need people who sound like 'mericans.

good one. :rolleyes:

HonestChieffan
03-25-2009, 09:26 PM
Hmmmmm....them warnt indans taking your order, thems Texans. Cain't understand them and they caint understand you.

http://consumerist.com/5016948/mcdonalds-remote-ordering-system-is-gaining-popularity

McDonald's Remote Ordering System Is Gaining Popularity
By Jay Slatkin, 9:56 AM on Tue Jun 17 2008, 10,089 views
In 2006 we reported that McDonald's was testing a system in which drive-thru orders were being taken by employees at a remote location, usually in another state altogether. Nearly 2 years later, the system has proven successful in some areas and is being used in over half of the McDonald's in Hawaii, according to KITV. Apparently, the system enhances the speed and accuracy of orders and most customers don't even realize the difference. More, inside...

The article says,

McDonald's began trying the idea four years ago in Illinois and Missouri. Out-sourcing drive-through order workers began in Hawaii two years ago. Recently it has expanded.

KITV went to one drive-through Wednesday and found the company is still working out the kinks. At the Keeaumoku Street McDonald's, the people taking drive-through orders were in another time zone. "I am currently talking to you from El Paso, Texas, sir," the drive-through operator said.

KITV asked the Texas call-takers if they are having a difficult time understanding people from Hawaii. "We've been out here for about seven months, so it kind of takes me a while just to understand," the worker said.

The long-distance call-takers send back the orders to the restaurant via the Internet. There the restaurant employees take the cash and hand over the food.

We suppose that fast food is meant to be fast, so if the system works then why not? Who hasn't been to a drive-thru that could have benefited from a little more speed and accuracy?

banyon
03-25-2009, 09:34 PM
Hey, them's Texans on your Dell support calls, wink wink!

Ain't no way they could do that with drive thru's!

alanm
03-25-2009, 10:21 PM
I guess Exit 41 is the company that does this. They also do Web Ordering and Call-Ahead type stuff. That part I can understand. But the drive-thru? Wendy's I guess is one of their clients and I will not go to another Wendy's ever again. It is a matter of principle. What a shit way to provide customer service. And that is my overall point Customer Service has gone to pot over the last decade and it is because of shit like this.When the news hits as to which companies are actually outsourcing I too will never patronize said businesses. :shake:

petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:23 PM
If minimum wage was not so high maybe McD's wouldnt have to go looking for a way to do the job cheaper....

That is a bullshti argument. Minimum wage has nothing to do with or very little to do with inflation and such. The pay of the average corporate CEO exceeds the pay of 1000 minimum wage earners.

petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:25 PM
I think McDonalds would be looking for ways to reduce spending no matter what the minimum wage was. Say it was $3 instead of the 'outrageously enormous' $7.25. They're going to make the jump to India if the opportunity is $2. What are we supposed to do then? Lower the minimum wage to $1?

You make it sound like they are being squeezed til they're blue because of the $7-9 their worker gets every hour.

THIS!

petegz28
03-25-2009, 10:34 PM
What it all comes down to is gross capitalism. Or more appropriately selfish-capitalism. Anything to grow the wallets in the boardroom and exploit the worker. Whatever happened to taking care of those that work for you? Sharing the wealth is not a socialist ideal when the government doesn't force it. An employee who is paid a fair wage and works hard for said wage is the best asset a company could ever have, regardless of what rung on the ladder they are on.

HonestChieffan
03-26-2009, 07:36 AM
That is a bullshti argument. Minimum wage has nothing to do with or very little to do with inflation and such. The pay of the average corporate CEO exceeds the pay of 1000 minimum wage earners.

I agree it has nothing to do with inflation. The bullshittery is when people continue to claim higher minimum wage has no effect on the employment levels at the lowest paid levels. They cite "unemployment" figures before and after a MW increase. The issue is not so much does it increase unemployment...meaning one who had a job gets canned, it is in fact employment meaning jobs that may have been available just go away and are not filled. The data shows pretty clearly the greatest impact negatively is on the youth jobs, summer, part timers who just find fewer jobs available.

petegz28
03-26-2009, 08:06 AM
I agree it has nothing to do with inflation. The bullshittery is when people continue to claim higher minimum wage has no effect on the employment levels at the lowest paid levels. They cite "unemployment" figures before and after a MW increase. The issue is not so much does it increase unemployment...meaning one who had a job gets canned, it is in fact employment meaning jobs that may have been available just go away and are not filled. The data shows pretty clearly the greatest impact negatively is on the youth jobs, summer, part timers who just find fewer jobs available.

Funny the pay of CEO's continues to increase as well.....

blaise
03-26-2009, 08:09 AM
It is laughable. The last two times the minimum wage was raised, the impact on inflation and unemployment was not an observable phenomenon.

But, of course you ignore Jenson's valid point about how no one can really afford to race to the bottom with the most desperate group of people a corporation can find.


I didn't ignore his point, I wasn't discussing any ethical matters regarding outsourcing or even whether it's sound business practice. He more or less said that the notion that a higher minimum wage could have an effect of an employer looking to outsource was laughable. I'm saying I don't think it's all that ridiculous a notion. I said it's probably not the root cause (like I said), but I don't think it's laughable either.
So, I'm not really sure where you're going there.
It's not "laughable". You may disagree with it, and although the effects of a higher minimum wage may not manifest themselves right away there are economists that have suggested that raising the minimum wage does have an effect on inflation, and if it could have an effect on inflation it's not a stretch to believe that McDonalds views on outsourcing may have been influenced by a higher minimum wage. I would think they're reluctant to raise prices on their menu due to the competitive nature of the business and so they look to cut costs elsewhere.
If it's so laughable that a higher minimum wage could cause an effect such as this then why not just raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour?

blaise
03-26-2009, 08:12 AM
That is a bullshti argument. Minimum wage has nothing to do with or very little to do with inflation and such. The pay of the average corporate CEO exceeds the pay of 1000 minimum wage earners.

McDonalds has much more than 1,000 minimum wage earners.

petegz28
03-26-2009, 08:16 AM
I didn't ignore his point, I wasn't discussing any ethical matters regarding outsourcing or even whether it's sound business practice. He more or less said that the notion that a higher minimum wage could have an effect of an employer looking to outsource was laughable. I'm saying I don't think it's all that ridiculous a notion. I said it's probably not the root cause (like I said), but I don't think it's laughable either.
So, I'm not really sure where you're going there.
It's not "laughable". You may disagree with it, and although the effects of a higher minimum wage may not manifest themselves right away there are economists that have suggested that raising the minimum wage does have an effect on inflation, and if it could have an effect on inflation it's not a stretch to believe that McDonalds views on outsourcing may have been influenced by a higher minimum wage. I would think they're reluctant to raise prices on their menu due to the competitive nature of the business and so they look to cut costs elsewhere.
If it's so laughable that a higher minimum wage could cause an effect such as this then why not just raise the minimum wage to $17 an hour?



It is all releative to the boardroom's greed. The CEO's continue to increase their pay by decreasing their labor costs. Then companies in turn start pulling the Wal-Mart Waltz having to offer their products at lower and lower prices becuase the wages of the working class do not keep pace in growth with said executives.

Therefore what it simply comes down too is greed in the boardroom. There is no reason to offer workers a fair wage. The CEO's will argue that it "increases their cost" to do such. But they fail to add that it increases the costs because "they" have to make their ever-increasing millions first.

petegz28
03-26-2009, 08:17 AM
McDonalds has much more than 1,000 minimum wage earners.

no shit? It was a example.

blaise
03-26-2009, 08:32 AM
It is all releative to the boardroom's greed. The CEO's continue to increase their pay by decreasing their labor costs. Then companies in turn start pulling the Wal-Mart Waltz having to offer their products at lower and lower prices becuase the wages of the working class do not keep pace in growth with said executives.

Therefore what it simply comes down too is greed in the boardroom. There is no reason to offer workers a fair wage. The CEO's will argue that it "increases their cost" to do such. But they fail to add that it increases the costs because "they" have to make their ever-increasing millions first.

Like I said, I'm not talking about the ethical angle of minimum wage, or what is fair pay. I'm not sure the point you're making in relation to my post. My point is that there have been many economists that have presented the idea that raising the minimum wage causes inflation. I'm not the first person to suggest this, I'm not sure why this is a new notion to anyone. In McDonalds case, because they're reluctant to raise prices, they may look to cut costs elsewhere- such as outsourcing employees.
I'm not even saying that's what happened in this case. In fact, I've said twice that I'm not saying it's the root cause. I'm just saying to act like a higher minimum wage having an effect such as this is "laughable" is itself laughable. It's open for debate, you may not agree with it, but it's hardly laughable.

petegz28
03-26-2009, 08:49 AM
Like I said, I'm not talking about the ethical angle of minimum wage, or what is fair pay. I'm not sure the point you're making in relation to my post. My point is that there have been many economists that have presented the idea that raising the minimum wage causes inflation. I'm not the first person to suggest this, I'm not sure why this is a new notion to anyone. In McDonalds case, because they're reluctant to raise prices, they may look to cut costs elsewhere- such as outsourcing employees.
I'm not even saying that's what happened in this case. In fact, I've said twice that I'm not saying it's the root cause. I'm just saying to act like a higher minimum wage having an effect such as this is "laughable" is itself laughable. It's open for debate, you may not agree with it, but it's hardly laughable.

I would say that trying to force the minimum wage to be a living wage is a fair argument in the aspect that it would be bad to our economy. Having said that though, if we did not have a minimum wage at the least, these executives would really be screwing the workforce. When it comes to unions and the minimum wage and that sort, the executives don't want to hear it cause it means they have to share the wealth throughout the company for the most part. And in the case of the larger corporations, that doesn't sit well with them. By the same token, small business tends to pay their employees as fair of a wage as possible to retain them. OR at least in my experience that is how I see it.

I think it is fair to say that in this day, large corporate CEO's would have no bones about exploiting slave labor. Oh wait, they already do.