PDA

View Full Version : Life Information Technology


BigMeatballDave
03-26-2009, 07:04 AM
How many of you are employed in this field? Is it a good field to get in to? I'm interested. I applied to Kaplan University Online. I've been off for 3 weeks now, and need to get into something with the free time I have. I figure an online school would be great in case I get called back, I can still finish. Any ideas on this are greatly appreciated.

cookster50
03-26-2009, 07:22 AM
If you lived in India, it would be a good field to get into. Not sure I would recommend it now. I believe there will always be IT jobs in the US, but as many as there are now??????

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 07:30 AM
Excellent field to get into, but there is a lot of competition. The good news is there is just as much need :-)

Pay is great once you build up your resume. You can easily expect a six-figure salary within ten to fifteen years (sooner if you are talented).

Pick an area & learn everything you can about it. Take an entry-level job in the field and work your ass off; it will pay huge dividends. In today's market experience is the most important attribute.

Areas to consider: infrastructure- Support, Maintenance, Operations (SMO) of workstations & peripherals (printers, scanners), SMO of servers, Networking architecture (routers, switches, bridges, PBX), SAN architecture (Storage arrays - this one will pay handsomely if you can become an expert). Programming. Middle tier - messaging buses and application interleve frameworks (a growing market; also pays well). Database - programming, administration / SMO.

I highly recommend getting an A+ cert + memorizing the OSI Model. They apply to ALL computing, regardless of the field you choose.

Saulbadguy
03-26-2009, 07:30 AM
It's treated me well.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 07:34 AM
If you are trying to change careers, don't expect that you'll take some classes (or get an online degree) and *pow* an IT job will appear.

That almost never happens anymore.

You need to demonstate your skills through work experience.

I think a lot of people get caught up in the sales pitch of the for-profit schools and leave deeper in debt and just as unlikely to get a job in their new field as they were before hand.

I taught myself how to build and repair desktop computers in high school. Then did the same later with networking and databases. I also learned Visual basic and SQL on my own. Same with PHP and MYSQL.

Along the way I got a BS in Software Systems Engineering and ultimately an MBA.

But the thing employers care about is can you hit the ground running (or close to it). They may want the degree, but they want proven work history as much or more.

You can get all of that by working on projects outside of your regular job. Mostly unpaid. But that outside work is huge.

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 07:37 AM
How many of you are employed in this field? Is it a good field to get in to? I'm interested. I applied to Kaplan University Online. I've been off for 3 weeks now, and need to get into something with the free time I have. I figure an online school would be great in case I get called back, I can still finish. Any ideas on this are greatly appreciated.
Getting started in the field is really, really hard. The entry level jobs just don't exsist right now and I don't think they will for a couple of more years at least. Once you get in the field and get some experience and refrences you are gold.

I worked as a day job. Got off work and went to specific I.T. classes at night. Came home at 10:00 pm or so and stayed up studing and or working on I.T. "stuff" until 2:00 am. Got up at 6:00 am and did it all over again. I did this for 2 years. But now......

I just turned down a $136,000 a year job in Washington, dc because I didn't want to live there. I get an average of 3-4 emails a day and a phone call from recruiters wanting to talk to me about a job they have open. But again thats what they sell you can happen if you go into I.T. and I'm living proof that it can happen.

But I have my doubts that it can happen very fast for a n00b just starting out now for a few reasons.
The specialization of I.T.
You don't get experienced in a wide range of tech tools because you are doing your one specific area and are not allowed to expand your skill set. You are to do your one thing and do it well. Sprint does this to their techies.
Supply and demand is out of balance
Too many techies with entry or low level experience are battling for the same jobs as the techies with experience because of the downturn in the economy. But that will change as the economy gets better.

IMHO a college degree is not a valuable tool in I.T. for techies. If you want to be in managment, yes its valuable. In I.T its your skillset and experience that gets you paid not what degree you have on your resume.

If you still want to give it a shot then forget progamming and web site design those I.T. jobs are offshored and they are not coming back. There are still people making good money at it because of their expertise and experience but not many n00bs are going to be successful in that part of I.T.

Go for security related I.T. fields or server/network I.T. fields. Those are rarley offshored and are highly paid and needed jobs even in today's economy.

Want to talk more pm me.

Sure-Oz
03-26-2009, 07:41 AM
I've been looking for tech jobs too and its real hard right now...i interviewed for one but they hired someone with way more experience but heard i will be called soon. Tough market right now esp for that type of job

ZepSinger
03-26-2009, 07:43 AM
I've been in IT for almost 12 years now, most of that time without anything more than a HS diploma. Just graduated from Capella University online about 2 weeks ago with a Bachelor's of Science in Information Technology.

Seems to me that what employers want now is someone with both the degree AND alot of experience. I wouldn't want to be coming into this field entry-level, degree or no. And yes, many of the programming positions have been outsourced offshore. More immediate positions like Project management, multimedia development(my field), sysadmin, etc. are harder to replicate offshore, so I think those sorts of skillsets are easier to get jobs in...

Z

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 07:47 AM
But the thing employers care about is can you hit the ground running (or close to it). They may want the degree, but they want proven work history as much or more.

You can get all of that by working on projects outside of your regular job. Mostly unpaid. But that outside work is huge.
agreed. I worked for minimum wage at the local junior colleges around the KC metro area as a help desk/desktop support techie not because of the money but to have something on my resume. I worked during the tax season at H&R Block as a techie troublshooting in their call center. Not much pay and was seasonal but I got something else on the resume. I built a website and database for a startup tech website for probably what ended up being a $1.00 an hour. All the while I'm doing these jobs I'm working full time, going to school and studing for I.T. certification tests. When I got my MCSE I landed a job at Sprint and off I went in the I.T. field.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 08:01 AM
I am in the IT field and love it though I think right now it would be hard to find a job with so many people looking for jobs that have alot of experience.

I went to college and got my CIS degree and then did an internship and they hired me and I have been at my current job since.

If you are really interested my recommendation is much like HC Chief's, specialize in something and right now the hot skill is virtualization. That is what I am doing right now.

phisherman
03-26-2009, 08:01 AM
I just turned down a $136,000 a year job

how many times are you going to mention this in posts?

Sure-Oz
03-26-2009, 08:07 AM
Any hints or steps on hwo to get in?

I applied for jack henry and associates for a tech job, that i want real bad. I've had a job freeze at another place that i was scheduled to interview too, frustrating. I just want to get my foot in the door. I last did IT stuff back in 99-2002 for a school district and have been in banking and trying to finish school since starting in 2004.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 08:09 AM
This thread has to be a bummer for anyone thinking about going back to school to better themselves. Don't let it discourage you, just be sure that you don't get suckered by false hope from a school that is there just to make a buck off of you.

The degree is nice, but the real work is done entirely by you.

Take advantage of the network here.

Some good people doing good things who can't get you job, but can help you lay out the roadmap to success.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 08:20 AM
This thread has to be a bummer for anyone thinking about going back to school to better themselves. Don't let it discourage you, just be sure that you don't get suckered by false hope from a school that is there just to make a buck off of you.

The degree is nice, but the real work is done entirely by you.

Take advantage of the network here.

Some good people doing good things who can't get you job, but can help you lay out the roadmap to success.

I don't find this thread a bummer just honest opinions. The IT market is saturated right now but I would recommend this line of work for anybody that loves and has a passion for IT. It is definitely not for the faint-hearted though.

BigMeatballDave
03-26-2009, 08:25 AM
Good info here guys, thanks.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 08:26 AM
Any hints or steps on hwo to get in?

I applied for jack henry and associates for a tech job, that i want real bad. I've had a job freeze at another place that i was scheduled to interview too, frustrating. I just want to get my foot in the door. I last did IT stuff back in 99-2002 for a school district and have been in banking and trying to finish school since starting in 2004.

I don't have any hints for you except to be persistent without being annoying.

When did they say they would let you know?

Molitoth
03-26-2009, 08:28 AM
I've been in IT since 2002... I love my job, but I wouldn't recommend getting in the field NOW, it seems like a flooded market.

If I was looking for a job I would take my hobby to the next level, and get paid for it.

damaticous
03-26-2009, 08:30 AM
IT has been good to me. I started at the lowest you could get now 10 years later I'm doing well. It's been a long ride. I feel that if I would have had a degree it would have helped my pay gain a little faster, but not much. Like most people say it's mostly about experience.

Pick a speciality (preferably a NEW technology or something that evolves quickly like SAN, networking, etc)( and you'll do good. It takes time and patience to get where you want, but worth it.

Fish
03-26-2009, 08:30 AM
Great field to get into. But now is a pretty tough time to do it.

Heed the advice in this thread and you'll have a good start.

Zeke
03-26-2009, 08:40 AM
Any hints or steps on hwo to get in?

I applied for jack henry and associates for a tech job, that i want real bad. I've had a job freeze at another place that i was scheduled to interview too, frustrating. I just want to get my foot in the door. I last did IT stuff back in 99-2002 for a school district and have been in banking and trying to finish school since starting in 2004.

Hints: The best way to jump into the field and get your career moving the right way in IT (with no experience) is to get on with an IT Outsourcing company as a help desk engineer. A lot of them require a little bit of experience first, though. So you may need to spend a year with a company that assembles or builds computers... or geek squad or something simple like that. But if you work for an IT Outsourcing company you'll learn a crap-ton in a short amount of time... you'll be exposed to a LOT.. which is very good. In most IT interviews, you are interviewed on technologies you have dealt with previously. Be open to learn and grow into multiple areas. Don't pigeon toe yourself as a "cisco guy" or a "windows XP guy" too early in your career with little experience. Later in the career that's ok.

The biggest key to success in IT is don't become arrogant with what you think you know. Build on what you know and keep expanding in your jobs... also, it's acceptable to Job hop early on in your IT career (a year here, a year there) to gain experiences with different technologies. This will also help you increase your salary more quickly. In my first 9 years in IT I've increased my income by 350% as an example.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 08:50 AM
Hints: The best way to jump into the field and get your career moving the right way in IT (with no experience) is to get on with an IT Outsourcing company as a help desk engineer. A lot of them require a little bit of experience first, though. So you may need to spend a year with a company that assembles or builds computers... or geek squad or something simple like that. But if you work for an IT Outsourcing company you'll learn a crap-ton in a short amount of time... you'll be exposed to a LOT.. which is very good. In most IT interviews, you are interviewed on technologies you have dealt with previously. Be open to learn and grow into multiple areas. Don't pigeon toe yourself as a "cisco guy" or a "windows XP guy" too early in your career with little experience. Later in the career that's ok.

The biggest key to success in IT is don't become arrogant with what you think you know. Build on what you know and keep expanding in your jobs... also, it's acceptable to Job hop early on in your IT career (a year here, a year there) to gain experiences with different technologies. This will also help you increase your salary more quickly. In my first 9 years in IT I've increased my income by 350% as an example.

EXCELLENT advice here! Working for a consulting/staff augmentation company will garner you more experience than anything else. As a consultant you will be exposed to countless environments with similar but different needs & problems.

I started my IT career as a dedicated support tech for a publishing company. After a year of that nightmare (but a lot of solid experience), I moved to a consulting company. I have been a consultant ever since. The customer changes, the environment changes, it rarely gets stale, the pay is way better than a FTE position, and you are exposed to vastly more emperical data.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 09:04 AM
EXCELLENT advice here! Working for a consulting/staff augmentation company will garner you more experience than anything else. As a consultant you will be exposed to countless environments with similar but different needs & problems.

I started my IT career as a dedicated support tech for a publishing company. After a year of that nightmare (but a lot of solid experience), I moved to a consulting company. I have been a consultant ever since. The customer changes, the environment changes, it rarely gets stale, the pay is way better than a FTE position, and you are exposed to vastly more emperical data.

I am thinking when the job market opens back up again I am going to try to get on with a consulting company if I can.

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:16 AM
I am in the IT field and love it though I think right now it would be hard to find a job with so many people looking for jobs that have alot of experience.

I went to college and got my CIS degree and then did an internship and they hired me and I have been at my current job since.

If you are really interested my recommendation is much like HC Chief's, specialize in something and right now the hot skill is virtualization. That is what I am doing right now.

And for virtualization you are going to have to know some Linux, Windows Server 03 and 08, Fiber Connect switching, blade technology, and SAN technology. You'd be better served getting a CCNA and getting into networking(switching, routing, DMZs, and Firewalls) as opposed to servers and Virtual Machines.

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:17 AM
I am thinking when the job market opens back up again I am going to try to get on with a consulting company if I can.

Shit. I've been thinking about starting one.

Garcia Bronco
03-26-2009, 09:18 AM
EXCELLENT advice here! Working for a consulting/staff augmentation company will garner you more experience than anything else. As a consultant you will be exposed to countless environments with similar but different needs & problems.

I started my IT career as a dedicated support tech for a publishing company. After a year of that nightmare (but a lot of solid experience), I moved to a consulting company. I have been a consultant ever since. The customer changes, the environment changes, it rarely gets stale, the pay is way better than a FTE position, and you are exposed to vastly more emperical data.

And you'll travel a great deal. Might be local travel, but more likely national travel.

Molitoth
03-26-2009, 09:19 AM
Hints: The best way to jump into the field and get your career moving the right way in IT (with no experience) is to get on with an IT Outsourcing company as a help desk engineer. A lot of them require a little bit of experience first, though. So you may need to spend a year with a company that assembles or builds computers... or geek squad or something simple like that. But if you work for an IT Outsourcing company you'll learn a crap-ton in a short amount of time... you'll be exposed to a LOT.. which is very good. In most IT interviews, you are interviewed on technologies you have dealt with previously. Be open to learn and grow into multiple areas. Don't pigeon toe yourself as a "cisco guy" or a "windows XP guy" too early in your career with little experience. Later in the career that's ok.

The biggest key to success in IT is don't become arrogant with what you think you know. Build on what you know and keep expanding in your jobs... also, it's acceptable to Job hop early on in your IT career (a year here, a year there) to gain experiences with different technologies. This will also help you increase your salary more quickly. In my first 9 years in IT I've increased my income by 350% as an example.

Very good post!

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:21 AM
And for virtualization you are going to have to know some Linux, Windows Server 03 and 08, Fiber Connect switching, blade technology, and SAN technology. You'd be better served getting a CCNA and getting into networking(switching, routing, DMZs, and Firewalls) as opposed to servers and Virtual Machines.

Agreed. Virtualization is becoming a very common implementation for DEV & TEST environments, and the virtualization software is maturing so rapidly that anyone entering the field now would be churning; the software is becoming so easy to use it does not require dedicated resources. HyperV is a great example: the Virtualization components are built into the OS and they are simple to implement and administer. On top of that System Center is bringing an admin console that allows for administration of VMs just likenon-VMs....single user interface, single user experience.

If one has the aptitude for it, I highly recommend the data warehousing path. VERY few people in this area know DW; even fewer know how to do it right. ;)

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:23 AM
Shit. I've been thinking about starting one.

If you have a client base/lots of network contacts, it is the way to go. I did... you will make more money for sure.

Taxes, administrative paperwork, and marketing are all dimensions you have to consider. They become a huge pain in the ass. As long as the $ keeps flowing in, it is worth it. During lulls, it REALLY blows.

splatbass
03-26-2009, 09:25 AM
I work in IT, for a defense contractor on a government contract. That is the only way I would recommend it though, because my job can't be outsourced to India like civilian IT jobs can. But in the civilian world it is tough for IT, and the pay isn't as good.

Zeke
03-26-2009, 09:34 AM
I work in IT, for a defense contractor on a government contract. That is the only way I would recommend it though, because my job can't be outsourced to India like civilian IT jobs can. But in the civilian world it is tough for IT, and the pay isn't as good.

Unless you are good at what you do. You get enough experience in a couple of years, you can get on with larger companies in the KC area making very good monies.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 09:41 AM
And for virtualization you are going to have to know some Linux, Windows Server 03 and 08, Fiber Connect switching, blade technology, and SAN technology. You'd be better served getting a CCNA and getting into networking(switching, routing, DMZs, and Firewalls) as opposed to servers and Virtual Machines.

That is true about knowing some of that but alot of the virtualization products are pretty mature now and don't take alot to catch on.

Right now being a VCP is more highly sought after than a CCNA.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 09:43 AM
Agreed. Virtualization is becoming a very common implementation for DEV & TEST environments, and the virtualization software is maturing so rapidly that anyone entering the field now would be churning; the software is becoming so easy to use it does not require dedicated resources. HyperV is a great example: the Virtualization components are built into the OS and they are simple to implement and administer. On top of that System Center is bringing an admin console that allows for administration of VMs just likenon-VMs....single user interface, single user experience.

If one has the aptitude for it, I highly recommend the data warehousing path. VERY few people in this area know DW; even fewer know how to do it right. ;)

It is not only common for Dev and Test which are fairly obvious most companies now are using it for production. Out of my 30+ production servers only 2 are not virutualized.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:45 AM
It is not only common for Dev and Test which are fairly obvious most companies now are using it for production. Out of my 30+ production servers only 2 are not virutualized.

Depends on what the server is used for; if it's database, it had better not be in a VM!

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 09:46 AM
There's tons of IT jobs in the US, you just have to get into the right field. It's more difficult to get started now, because Tech Support was always good entry level work and that HAS moved overseas considerably.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 09:49 AM
Just an FYI on college degrees.

Just about EVERYBODY wants someone with a 4-year degree. But a degree in Computers or IT isn't necessary, and sometimes not even helpful.

Like HC said early on, they're looking for EXPERIENCE in IT. The degree is more of a demonstration of aptitude. Hell, I have a degree in History and German.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:50 AM
There's tons of IT jobs in the US, you just have to get into the right field. It's more difficult to get started now, because Tech Support was always good entry level work and that HAS moved overseas considerably.

It's moving back. Companies have been raped in CSAT scores where they employ off-shored support. Companies are trying desperately to improve Cservice as that is one of the largest profit/retention dimensions now. Competition is so fierce, CService is the main differentiator.

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 09:50 AM
It is not only common for Dev and Test which are fairly obvious most companies now are using it for production. Out of my 30+ production servers only 2 are not virutualized.
I've got about 75 vitruals running in my enviornment of about 200. But they are defintely thinking of going all virtual.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 09:50 AM
That is true about knowing some of that but alot of the virtualization products are pretty mature now and don't take alot to catch on.

Right now being a VCP is more highly sought after than a CCNA.

The CCNA base is too saturated. Interestingly enough, Cisco just came out with the CCDE and in many ways it's HARDER than the CCIE written.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 09:52 AM
It's moving back. Companies have been raped in CSAT scores where they employ off-shored support. Companies are trying desperately to improve Cservice as that is one of the largest profit/retention dimensions now. Competition is so fierce, CService is the main differentiator.

It depends on the business and your segment. We still use overseas call centers, but we don't use them for key or strategic client support.

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 09:53 AM
The CCNA base is too saturated. Interestingly enough, Cisco just came out with the CCDE and in many ways it's HARDER than the CCIE written.
And aren't server/app admins making more than CCNA's these days? I remember CCNA's making an average 20%-30% more than server guys just like 5 years ago.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:53 AM
It depends on the business and your segment. We still use overseas call centers, but we don't use them for key or strategic client support.

Touche.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 09:54 AM
Depends on what the server is used for; if it's database, it had better not be in a VM!

Why? I run SQL Server 2005 and Exchange with no problems

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 09:57 AM
Why? I run SQL Server 2005 and Exchange with no problems
I've also got huge databases running on top of a vmware host.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 09:59 AM
Why? I run SQL Server 2005 and Exchange with no problems

For small-scale operations it may be okay, but get into larger (mid-market to enterprise) environments and it is trouble.

Virtualization is another abstaction layer on top of a system which does NOT like abstration layers. With databases IO minimilization is key. Virtualization has a tendency to throttle memory, cpu, and storage bus access as the VM persists on a shared framework. Other apps/systems may intrude on the allocated resources.

The only way to ensure it works w/o adversely affecting the RDBMS is to ensure allocated resources are LOCKED for the RDBMS. That means CPU, RAM, and drives are not shared outside the VM. Sounds easy, sounds simple, but it rarely, if ever, truly applies in a virtualized environment.

HC_Chief
03-26-2009, 10:00 AM
I've also got huge databases running on top of a vmware host.

I love these types of environments.... means more business for me! :D

BDM: "My databases run like (*#$! Please come take a look"

Me: "No problem". CHA CHING.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 10:02 AM
The CCNA base is too saturated. Interestingly enough, Cisco just came out with the CCDE and in many ways it's HARDER than the CCIE written.

I agree and when 13 year olds start taking and passing the test IMO it is pretty much worthless.

BigRedChief
03-26-2009, 10:21 AM
I love these types of environments.... means more business for me! :D

BDM: "My databases run like (*#$! Please come take a look"

Me: "No problem". CHA CHING.
I'm all for expanding the I.T. workforce. :thumb:

Molitoth
03-26-2009, 10:26 AM
We are in the process of moving everything over to VM/SAN. The technology is just amazing. Just in due time, out Datacenter is crowded with a large amount of racks.

Kerberos
03-26-2009, 10:29 AM
It's treated me well.

Hey Saul

The infamous AS400 crash at USD501 that got the CIO and two network admins fired? Was that during or after you employment there?

penguinz
03-26-2009, 10:34 AM
For small-scale operations it may be okay, but get into larger (mid-market to enterprise) environments and it is trouble.

Virtualization is another abstaction layer on top of a system which does NOT like abstration layers. With databases IO minimilization is key. Virtualization has a tendency to throttle memory, cpu, and storage bus access as the VM persists on a shared framework. Other apps/systems may intrude on the allocated resources.

The only way to ensure it works w/o adversely affecting the RDBMS is to ensure allocated resources are LOCKED for the RDBMS. That means CPU, RAM, and drives are not shared outside the VM. Sounds easy, sounds simple, but it rarely, if ever, truly applies in a virtualized environment.You can do a decent job of managing resources in an environment such as Virtuozzo.

dirk digler
03-26-2009, 10:49 AM
For small-scale operations it may be okay, but get into larger (mid-market to enterprise) environments and it is trouble.

Virtualization is another abstaction layer on top of a system which does NOT like abstration layers. With databases IO minimilization is key. Virtualization has a tendency to throttle memory, cpu, and storage bus access as the VM persists on a shared framework. Other apps/systems may intrude on the allocated resources.

The only way to ensure it works w/o adversely affecting the RDBMS is to ensure allocated resources are LOCKED for the RDBMS. That means CPU, RAM, and drives are not shared outside the VM. Sounds easy, sounds simple, but it rarely, if ever, truly applies in a virtualized environment.

I would tend to agree. We use SQL in a small way but our Exchange environment is big and we have had no problems.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 11:39 AM
And aren't server/app admins making more than CCNA's these days? I remember CCNA's making an average 20%-30% more than server guys just like 5 years ago.

Server admins and network admins make about the same in this market. Now if you get into specialization like DBA's and stuff, they can make alot more than networking guys.

The CCNA isn't a marketable cert anymore, I've been doing this for 13 years and just got mine last year to fulfill a performance objective. I've gotten along just fine without it for that long.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 11:40 AM
I agree and when 13 year olds start taking and passing the test IMO it is pretty much worthless.

The newest version of the test is significantly harder at least. It's disappointing though that it spends so much time on stuff that most new techs will NEVER see, like point-top-point WANs. Not one mention of MPLS, which is all I design today.

jAZ
03-29-2009, 05:19 PM
http://www.hanovsolutions.com/resume_comic.png

Saulbadguy
03-29-2009, 05:38 PM
Hey Saul

The infamous AS400 crash at USD501 that got the CIO and two network admins fired? Was that during or after you employment there?

Not sure what you are talking about, tbh. The CIO retired a couple years ago IIRC, but no admins were fired. I don't work there anymore but I keep in touch with my old co-workers.

Bearcat
03-29-2009, 06:06 PM
Hints: The best way to jump into the field and get your career moving the right way in IT (with no experience) is to get on with an IT Outsourcing company as a help desk engineer. A lot of them require a little bit of experience first, though. So you may need to spend a year with a company that assembles or builds computers... or geek squad or something simple like that. But if you work for an IT Outsourcing company you'll learn a crap-ton in a short amount of time... you'll be exposed to a LOT.. which is very good. In most IT interviews, you are interviewed on technologies you have dealt with previously. Be open to learn and grow into multiple areas. Don't pigeon toe yourself as a "cisco guy" or a "windows XP guy" too early in your career with little experience. Later in the career that's ok.

The biggest key to success in IT is don't become arrogant with what you think you know. Build on what you know and keep expanding in your jobs... also, it's acceptable to Job hop early on in your IT career (a year here, a year there) to gain experiences with different technologies. This will also help you increase your salary more quickly. In my first 9 years in IT I've increased my income by 350% as an example.

Great advice... I didn't have a great GPA out of college and graduated at the wrong end of the IT cycle, so I ended up at a help desk... spent a couple of years there, and while it was a bit of a humbling experience at times, I worked my butt off, got a few raises and promotions, and really sharpened my problem solving skills.

Once I had that magical 2-5 years of experience that everyone is looking for, I was able to get a job that's much more challenging and that covers multiple hardware/software platforms, multiple programming languages, Oracle and DB2, etc.

Still early in my career, I completely agree with not getting too specialized me... I hate the "it's not my problem" type of people who won't venture out of their world to solve a problem. Partially because of that, my long-term problem might be picking something to specialize in. I feel like I know enough to be dangerous in several areas, and I'm one of those impatient Gen Xers who doesn't know that it takes 10+ years to become an expert, and doesn't want to waste that kind of time. ;)

ILChief
03-29-2009, 07:59 PM
I'm in this field doing C++/.Net development. Before that I did Oracle Database Admin/development. Good field to get into (especially if you live in a bigger city). It took me a while to get a job out of college because of the limited companies in my area.

Simply Red
03-29-2009, 08:05 PM
How many of you are employed in this field? Is it a good field to get in to? I'm interested. I applied to Kaplan University Online. I've been off for 3 weeks now, and need to get into something with the free time I have. I figure an online school would be great in case I get called back, I can still finish. Any ideas on this are greatly appreciated.


Do you have any similar experience?

I sell Computer parts including servers, laptops, sys.-boards, printer-parts etc... I've seen srvc. techs make really good money, and there are tons of choices, i'd be glad to see what vendors are out there and try to line something up, if you were to ever want to take a stab @ sales or once you're ready to become a tech.

StcChief
03-29-2009, 08:38 PM
IT has done fine by me since 1978. Stay up technology and it relates to business problems. specialist and general skills required over time. Business Analyst translating business requirements that can be developed with software programming/Db design.

The off-shoring of large company jobs is for programming/testing/support that I have seen.

Some of the development has been on-shored after failures.... The industry is strong.
Learn as much as you can, do your own website/project to show interest in the industry.
Good luck.

Misplaced_Chiefs_Fan
03-29-2009, 09:51 PM
And the more of you guys there are, the more work for me.

I'm a tech writer. Someone has to translate all that computerese into English for the common man.

Working on Accreditation paperwork right now. Talk about job security. ;)

beavis
03-29-2009, 09:57 PM
Kind of by accident, I've fallen into the Healthcare IT side. Pretty decent money and a career path in it if you are willing to relocate for jobs. It doesn't hurt that government is going to be throwing billions at us here soon either.

XXXshogunXXX
03-30-2009, 12:14 AM
Im in IT, goverment contractor. I just got a new job, different position, entirely new role and location. The thing that helps me land a job in this field is my top secret clearance. The higher the clearance, the less competition for the job.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 02:27 AM
Lie on your application about how many years of exp. if you know your stuff.

IT industry can be fucking stupid with demands for lots of exp and then not paying. F-them.

CrazyPhuD
03-30-2009, 03:51 AM
Lie on your application about how many years of exp. if you know your stuff.

IT industry can be fucking stupid with demands for lots of exp and then not paying. F-them.

Uhhhh....yea don't...I'll comment more later here(on the IT stuff in general), but let me say this, if you do this and the check and catch you, you will be effectively banned for life from some companies. I know people who can't get a job at e-bay or yahoo because they fudged a resume. In most cases they walked them out the door after they were hired and said don't apply again.

BigRedChief
03-30-2009, 06:34 AM
Uhhhh....yea don't...I'll comment more later here(on the IT stuff in general), but let me say this, if you do this and the check and catch you, you will be effectively banned for life from some companies. I know people who can't get a job at e-bay or yahoo because they fudged a resume. In most cases they walked them out the door after they were hired and said don't apply again.
No kidding. You lie, you are done if you get caught. Don't go there. Most tech interviews weed out the unqualified anyway. Most of us can talk for 5 mintues with someone and know whether they know what they are talking about and can do the job they are applying for.

Kerberos
03-30-2009, 06:42 AM
Not sure what you are talking about, tbh. The CIO retired a couple years ago IIRC, but no admins were fired. I don't work there anymore but I keep in touch with my old co-workers.


This was second hand news to me so it could very well have been erroneous.

BUT what was said is that they (501) was doing an AS400 change to a new 400 and all the information that was imported from the OLD AS400 was corrupt as well as the backup so all the district finance was lost with it?

Word was that the CIO was let go or maybe forced into retirement? Along with him two network admins were also let go. Again this was second hand info so I have no clue to accuracy.

We had a pool here as to wether our boss was going to go for the CIO job there in 501 since my boss travels from T-Town everyday to JC.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 03:39 PM
Uhhhh....yea don't...I'll comment more later here(on the IT stuff in general), but let me say this, if you do this and the check and catch you, you will be effectively banned for life from some companies. I know people who can't get a job at e-bay or yahoo because they fudged a resume. In most cases they walked them out the door after they were hired and said don't apply again.

background checks are so wrong in my opinion.

Deberg_1990
03-30-2009, 03:43 PM
background checks are so wrong in my opinion.

If your honest and dont have anything to hide, then you shouldnt have anything to worry about.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 03:46 PM
No kidding. You lie, you are done if you get caught. Don't go there. Most tech interviews weed out the unqualified anyway. Most of us can talk for 5 mintues with someone and know whether they know what they are talking about and can do the job they are applying for.

The way we do tech interviews now, it's virtually impossible to lie your way through it, because they do panel interviews with several SME's asking questions.

BigMeatballDave
03-30-2009, 03:53 PM
Upon checking tuition costs, The University of Phoenix is less expensive. I recieved much better info from the woman I spoke to friday from Phoenix. I submitted my FAFSA online today. If everything goes well, I'll start class next week.

Bob Dole
03-30-2009, 04:01 PM
Upon checking tuition costs, The University of Phoenix is less expensive. I recieved much better info from the woman I spoke to friday from Phoenix. I submitted my FAFSA online today. If everything goes well, I'll start class next week.

Did you explore whether your region has something like this? http://www.electroniccampus.org/

If so, you might find that you can complete what you want at an accredited university in your state at a lower cost than U of P.

Buehler445
03-30-2009, 04:19 PM
If one has the aptitude for it, I highly recommend the data warehousing path. VERY few people in this area know DW; even fewer know how to do it right. ;)

Truth. Out EDW sucks and the top 2 people in out EDW quit.
Posted via Mobile Device

Gracie Dean
03-30-2009, 04:20 PM
How many of you are employed in this field? Is it a good field to get in to? I'm interested. I applied to Kaplan University Online. I've been off for 3 weeks now, and need to get into something with the free time I have. I figure an online school would be great in case I get called back, I can still finish. Any ideas on this are greatly appreciated.

hubby makes over 80K a year

down side his job requires him to carry a pager as he is the Network GOD at his job

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 04:38 PM
hubby makes over 80K a year

down side his job requires him to carry a pager as he is the Network GOD at his job

That's the problem with IT operations. They own you. I haven't carried a pager for 6 years and I make alot more money now.

CrazyPhuD
03-30-2009, 04:53 PM
The way we do tech interviews now, it's virtually impossible to lie your way through it, because they do panel interviews with several SME's asking questions.

Yes that is true but a friend of one of my friends got a job a yahoo, it actually didn't really even matter what his resume would have said because he was qualified for it and specifically brought on by the people hiring him. He had a small lie on his education on his resume. Not a major thing just listed as completing something that he didn't actually finish(but still took). Not really relevant to his current job. But HR found out and goodbye there he went. Moral of the story is don't commit resume fibs even small ones. Just not worth it. If the employer can't trust you they don't want to hire you.

beavis
03-30-2009, 05:09 PM
background checks are so wrong in my opinion.

They wouldn't be necessary if people didn't lie on their CVs.

Gracie Dean
03-30-2009, 05:29 PM
That's the problem with IT operations. They own you. I haven't carried a pager for 6 years and I make alot more money now.

it isn't bad, and it is JOB security. He has to carry the hot pager once every 3 months but since he is the security/network/firewall god if the idiot carrying the pager can't figure it out, Hubby gets a call. Since he is in charge of police, fire, golf, library,airport ect ect ect...it is pretty important.

its all good tho as it also pays for our higher than average speed home internet and his cell phone in addition to his salary!

BigMeatballDave
03-30-2009, 05:32 PM
Did you explore whether your region has something like this? http://www.electroniccampus.org/

If so, you might find that you can complete what you want at an accredited university in your state at a lower cost than U of P.I had to do this completely online. I'm currently laid-off, but if I get called back, my job won't interfere.

BigRedChief
03-30-2009, 10:01 PM
That's the problem with IT operations. They own you. I haven't carried a pager for 6 years and I make alot more money now.
I don't have a problem with this being on call as long as I have the tools and authority to mold my enviornment into a stable and therfore rare after hours call. But the info setting on my servers is as secure as secure gets, very few people have acess so there is really no one else to call.ROFL

Simply Red
03-30-2009, 10:14 PM
The way we do tech interviews now, it's virtually impossible to lie your way through it, because they do panel interviews with several SME's asking questions.

Well everybody stretches the truth in an interview, and it happens on both sides. Especially at the end when the money topic, surfaces.

googlegoogle
03-31-2009, 02:06 AM
There should companies we can pay that would vouch and lie for us if we need to fudge the resume.

Those IT companies are F-ing with our laws and bribing congress to bring in H1B visa slaves from other countries. And on top of that claim Americans don't want to work in IT.

F__K them.

penguinz
03-31-2009, 02:45 AM
I don't have a problem with this being on call as long as I have the tools and authority to mold my enviornment into a stable and therfore rare after hours call. But the info setting on my servers is as secure as secure gets, very few people have acess so there is really no one else to call.ROFLI am in this same boat. I manage 20+ web and SQL servers and I am the only one that knows what is where so I am here are dumb hours performing upgrades.

Bob Dole
03-31-2009, 02:47 AM
I had to do this completely online. I'm currently laid-off, but if I get called back, my job won't interfere.

What Bob Dole is suggesting is that there may be more affordable, in-state universities that offer a completely online degree program.

For instance, Chancellor University in Cleveland:

BS Information Technology
Required equipment or software: Computer, E-mail, Internet access
Programs are available to: students nationwide only
On-campus requirements: No
Standardized tests required for admission: No
Costs: $450 per credit hour
Number of credits/courses needed to complete degree: 120 credit hour(s)
Program offered in English: Yes

http://www.petersons.com/distancelearning/code/programVC.asp?sponsor=1&inunId=129814&typeVC=ProgramVC

DRU
03-31-2009, 03:01 AM
I've been working for myself the past 2 years doing custom integration for people. Quite frankly, I'm swamped with business.

If you know what you're doing people will be able to tell by talking to you. If you impress them they'll pay you. Simple as that.

One of the best ways to impress is get yourself known in web forums. For example, I'm a certified PayPal developer (one of only 13 ace developers in the world) and I answer lots of questions for other developers in the PayPal developer forums. Every time I post a message there people see my logo with the Certified Developer logo under and also the label as an Ace Developer. That, along with the fact that I'm answering so many questions for other developers even, they decide I'm the one they want to develop their stuff. A few minutes on the phone and I can usually hook em. Of course, it helps that I do things for a fraction of the cost as big companies, too, because I have pre-built solutions I can utilize for people to get things done a whole lot quicker.

What I've noticed, too, is that the more small jobs I do like that the more word-of-mouth gets passed around and my phone rings more and more for that now these days. I haven't even had the time to post in forums as much.

The tip I used to hear quite a bit when dealing with IT stuff was to specialize in something. Well, I wound up "specializing" in web service integration (ie. SOAP, XMLRPC, etc.) This allows me to make custom solutions for people such as the following, which takes up all of my time:

-PayPal Instant Payment Notification Integration
-PayPal Payments Pro Integration
-eBay Auction Management Tools
-Custom shipping calculators and label printing solutions
-Synchronization of web store database with 3rd party data sources. (Magento, osCommerce, etc)

On top of the all of that I wound up developing a point of sale solution for PayPal called USBSwiper which will be taking over all of my bills pretty soon. When that time comes there will be even more custom integration work available because I won't be doing it anymore. ;)

Anyway, if you can do any of that stuff there is plenty of work available. Just don't rip people off and get the solutions completed so they actually work...you'd be surprised how many times I fix things for people who had a sloppy original developer and wound up paying for non-working software....and you'll be successful in this business.

htismaqe
03-31-2009, 08:27 AM
it isn't bad, and it is JOB security. He has to carry the hot pager once every 3 months but since he is the security/network/firewall god if the idiot carrying the pager can't figure it out, Hubby gets a call. Since he is in charge of police, fire, golf, library,airport ect ect ect...it is pretty important.

its all good tho as it also pays for our higher than average speed home internet and his cell phone in addition to his salary!

The thing is, I was in the same kind of job. I have just as much job security now, NEVER have to work after-hours, MAYBE work 40 hours a week, and make twice as much.

htismaqe
03-31-2009, 08:29 AM
I don't have a problem with this being on call as long as I have the tools and authority to mold my enviornment into a stable and therfore rare after hours call. But the info setting on my servers is as secure as secure gets, very few people have acess so there is really no one else to call.ROFL

In most corporate environments, you'll get to manage an infrastructure that the budget can afford. You have control over how it's installed and maintained, but not what the base architecture is because procurement has to have their say.

I guess I'm just spoiled. I'll never go back to enterprise operations after doing consulting. I'm too lazy.

htismaqe
03-31-2009, 08:29 AM
Well everybody stretches the truth in an interview, and it happens on both sides. Especially at the end when the money topic, surfaces.

Panel interviews help prevent it, that's all I'm saying.

Garcia Bronco
03-31-2009, 08:56 AM
It is not only common for Dev and Test which are fairly obvious most companies now are using it for production. Out of my 30+ production servers only 2 are not virutualized.

My entire environment is VM's for exception of something that's highly transactional like SQL, Oracle, and Exchange.