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ChiefRon
03-26-2009, 11:11 AM
http://www.kansascity.com/sports/chiefs/story/1106898.html

Pioli looks for specific qualities in free agents

By ADAM TEICHER
The Kansas City Star

DANA POINT, Calif. | The Chiefs had enough salary-cap room to buy small countries and certainly had need of many skilled players when the free-agency signing period began last month.

General manager Scott Pioli said he was never tempted to solve their many problems by making a big strike in free-agency.

“Here’s a rule I learned from my mother and father when I was a kid: Just because you have money in your pocket doesn’t mean you have to spend it,” Pioli said Wednesday at the conclusion of the NFL’s annual meetings. “Whether you have a lot or a little, always spend it wisely.”

The Chiefs spent some Wednesday when they agreed to terms of a two-year, $3.5 million contract with veteran offensive lineman Mike Goff. The 33-year-old Goff is an 11-year veteran, having spent the first six seasons of his career with Cincinnati and the last five with San Diego.

A durable player, Goff has started all 16 games for the last six seasons. His signing does not appear to be insurance in case the Chiefs trade guard Brian Waters, who for now is their starter at left guard.

Goff could wind up starting at either center, where he could beat out incumbent Rudy Niswanger, or right guard, where last year’s starter Adrian Jones is unsigned.

Goff could be the Chiefs’ only starter from this year’s group of unrestricted free-agent signings, which now numbers five. Pioli said free-agency for the Chiefs might look different from year to year depending on circumstances.

“Don’t ever expect a certain outcome because it always will depend on the opportunity,” said Pioli, who joined the Chiefs in January after nine seasons as the personnel director for New England. “People tried to believe the Patriots would never draft a linebacker. Last year, Jarod Mayo was drafted in the first round. People tried to believe the Patriots would never spend big money on top free-agent players. Rosevelt Colvin was paid pretty good money. Adalius Thomas was paid pretty good money.

“Now, we paid a lot of our own free agents. People forget that a lot of times, but that’s an element of free-agency, an important element. We re-signed Ty Warren. We re-signed Richard Seymour. We re-signed Tom Brady. We re-signed Dan Koppen.

“So every year will be different. Every day will be different. As we go through free-agency, teams sign players or roster bonuses come due for certain players and free-agency changes.”

The Chiefs also traded with the Patriots for two probable starters, quarterback Matt Cassel and linebacker Mike Vrabel. While their free-agent group might include no eventual starters other than Goff, the Chiefs signed all of them with a specific role in mind.

Veteran wide receiver Bobby Engram will be the slot receiver when the Chiefs go to a three- or four-receiver formation and a resource for the Chiefs’ many young players.

“He’s an experienced receiver who’s played well in this league,” Pioli said. “He has tremendous makeup and tremendous character and will be a good veteran presence not only on the team but at his specific position. He runs great routes and is a very dependable person. So he’ll be productive not only as a player, but as a teacher and mentor and what we’re trying to do as a team.”

Wide receiver Terrance Copper, linebacker Monty Beisel and cornerback Travis Daniels will be reserves. But Copper is the fastest of Chiefs receivers and could give them a deep threat they’ve lacked at receiver.

Beisel, who played for the Patriots during part of Pioli’s time in New England, could wind up playing in special situations like goal-line and short-yardage. The Chiefs expect all three to upgrade their woeful play on special teams.

Pioli said they also share a quality that is essential for all players acquired by the Chiefs: They enjoy not only playing football, but working at it, too.

That’s something Pioli said he will be looking for when the Chiefs hold their first minicamp April 17-19 and practice later in the spring.

“One of the things I’ll be doing is evaluating not just football skills but details,” Pioli said. “Football needs to be one of the most important things in their lives.”

A day after coach Todd Haley used Cassel as an example of what the Chiefs were looking for in that regard, Pioli agreed, citing Cassel’s big year last season after replacing the injured Tom Brady.

“One of the most impressive things about Matt to me is that he essentially didn’t take a snap, hadn’t really had to prepare for a game or play for over seven years, but when the opportunity came, he was ready,” said Pioli, who along with coach Bill Belichick selected Cassel in the seventh round of the 2005 draft even though he had been a backup and played sparingly in college at USC.

“To me, his mental and emotional endurance are classic examples of everything we try to teach in football.”

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 11:12 AM
1. gray hair

Pestilence
03-26-2009, 11:14 AM
So who are the 5 receivers for next season?

1. Bowe
2. Bradley
3. Engram
4. Copper
5. Franklin

?

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 11:15 AM
Darling

ChiefRon
03-26-2009, 11:15 AM
I didn't see this posted, but I thought it was a good read.

I actually feel better about how Pioli is building this team.

I was upset we didn't target at least Brown and/or Canty because I felt they were immediate starters and huge upgrades that would've given us more flexibility in the draft.

But after signing Goff, and hearing insights like from this article, I feel like those guys weren't even on the radar, possibly because of money, or possibly because of attitude. I also think this regime is still in evaluation mode. They don't know what they have, and are not sure how these players will fit in with the scheme, but more importantly how they fit in with their work ethic / attitude.

I expect more moves after they begin meeting with the players and right after the draft, and maybe one or two here and there as they get deeper into OTAs and mini-camps.

ChiefRon
03-26-2009, 11:17 AM
So who are the 5 receivers for next season?

1. Bowe
2. Bradley
3. Engram
4. Copper
5. Franklin

?

I could see them going with six, so who do you keep Darling or Robinson? Can Copper return kicks?

raybec 4
03-26-2009, 11:20 AM
I could see them going with six, so who do you keep Darling or Robinson? Can Copper return kicks?

Just so long as they don't allow Webb a roster spot it's an automatic upgrade.

ChiefRon
03-26-2009, 11:24 AM
1. gray hair

funny, but accurate

I think they looked at the composition of the roster, saw how many close games we lost, and identified veteran leadership as a serious hole in the overall makeup of our team.

Everyone bitches about bringing in older guys, but you need some of those to level out the highs & lows for the youngsters on the roster, steady veterans who have been in tough situations and can guide the youngsters through adversity.

But more importantly, those veterans need to have football as the focus of their life, not veterans who are in it for the money, don't help out the teammates, and leave @ 4:30 everyday.

I wasn't a big fan of the Cassel trade because I really want Sanchez or Stafford, but after hearing of his work ethic and how football is his total focus, I'm liking the move. Intangibles are way more important for a QB than the physical abilities.

keg in kc
03-26-2009, 11:25 AM
DarlingYes sweetie?

Wait, what?

Crashride
03-26-2009, 11:27 AM
Sippio

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 11:27 AM
Yes, yes, and for the millionth time; the Patriot Way. We GET IT, okay? :rolleyes:

Good god; is it time to actually play yet? :rolleyes:

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 11:28 AM
Yes sweetie?

Wait, what?

ROFL

talastan
03-26-2009, 11:36 AM
Sippio

SIPPPIIIOOOOOO!!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v221/wolverinechick121/Rufio/RufioHookGrin01.jpg

Tribal Warfare
03-26-2009, 11:41 AM
“Don’t ever expect a certain outcome because it always will depend on the opportunity”

and he goes on about taking Mayo, which also tells me that Curry may not be the guy for #3 pick or KC will tradedown.

DaWolf
03-26-2009, 11:45 AM
funny, but accurate

I think they looked at the composition of the roster, saw how many close games we lost, and identified veteran leadership as a serious hole in the overall makeup of our team.

Everyone bitches about bringing in older guys, but you need some of those to level out the highs & lows for the youngsters on the roster, steady veterans who have been in tough situations and can guide the youngsters through adversity.

But more importantly, those veterans need to have football as the focus of their life, not veterans who are in it for the money, don't help out the teammates, and leave @ 4:30 everyday.

I wasn't a big fan of the Cassel trade because I really want Sanchez or Stafford, but after hearing of his work ethic and how football is his total focus, I'm liking the move. Intangibles are way more important for a QB than the physical abilities.

The theory behind it is fine. You bring in vets to fill a need, and they are easy enough to get rid of once they reach that over the hill point. What I hope will be the difference between Pioli and Peterson is that while Carl just seemed to sign vets as a reaction to a hole on the team, and never could develop consistent young talent behind that veteran to eventually step in at the right time (IE the OL, WR, QB, LB, CB), hopefully Pioli is looking at, say, Goff or Vrabel or Engram as a one or two year guy, and is going to be looking to draft or pick up a young guy to specifically play behind them and learn that role well and be able to step in when we dump these guys in a year or two...

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 11:45 AM
Darling

I'm going to laugh my ass off at you when Pollard is retained, has a breakout year, and Darling ends up in the CFL.

As a back up.:D :Poke:

vailpass
03-26-2009, 11:47 AM
What Pioli needs to be looking for is a wig. Dude has the nastiest, shiniest 9-head I've ever seen.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 11:51 AM
I'm going to laugh my ass off at you when Pollard is retained, has a breakout year, and Darling ends up in the CFL.

As a back up.:D :Poke:

Watch out, saying good things about Pollard can get one branded around here.

philfree
03-26-2009, 11:54 AM
Goff could wind up starting at either center, where he could beat out incumbent Rudy Niswanger, or right guard, where last year’s starter Adrian Jones is unsigned.


There's a little roster turn over. I hope Waters pulls his head out and is our LG with Goff being the RG and then hopefully we can draft one of the fine centers. We can sandwich him between two savy vets and our line should be much improved.

PhilFree:arrow:

kysirsoze
03-26-2009, 11:54 AM
What Pioli needs to be looking for is a wig. Dude has the nastiest, shiniest 9-head I've ever seen.

I think you mean he's bald. Not that rare of a condition.

vailpass
03-26-2009, 11:56 AM
I think you mean he's bald. Not that rare of a condition.

No, he's not bald. He keeps the hair on the back half of his head going like maybe the rest will come back.
Dude doesn't have a forehead or even a fivehead, he has a full on ninehead.

SNR
03-26-2009, 11:57 AM
Looks like Will Franklin is going to have to improve and produce lots in one offseason or he's on his way out. He won't get his usual 3 years that it takes most WRs to get good, but that's too bad.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
Watch out, saying good things about Pollard can get one branded around here.

Only by Claythan. And well, you know. :D :Poke:

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 12:32 PM
Only by Claythan. And well, you know. :D :Poke:

Well, I personally think that if the new coaches let Pollard play up at SS, like Adrian Wilson in AZ for instance, he can be a MUCH better player. Will he ever be a pro-bowler? Probably not. But he's definitely NOT a cover 2 safety and he wasn't coming out of college. Herm Edwards and Gunther Cunningham set him up for failure because they're stupid.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:33 PM
Giving Pollard more in-the-box responsibilities is just going to result in more missed tackles.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:40 PM
Well, I personally think that if the new coaches let Pollard play up at SS, like Adrian Wilson in AZ for instance, he can be a MUCH better player. Will he ever be a pro-bowler? Probably not. But he's definitely NOT a cover 2 safety and he wasn't coming out of college. Herm Edwards and Gunther Cunningham set him up for failure because they're stupid.

Agreed.

Giving Pollard more in-the-box responsibilities is just going to result in more missed tackles.

Do NOT agree.
Do you have any idea how many times he's been put in coverage, sent 180 degrees from the play, and broke away, hauled ass to the other side of the fucking field and STOPPED THE TOUCHDOWN WHEN NO ONE ELSE COULD?!?!?

Remove head from ass, and RECOGNIZE! :cuss::D

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 12:40 PM
Giving Pollard more in-the-box responsibilities is just going to result in more missed tackles.

He'll make some of those misses back by not having to be out of position when he's covering for Page's sorry ass...

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:41 PM
Do you have any idea how many times he's been put in coverage, sent 180 degrees from the play, and broke away, hauled ass to the other side of the fucking field and STOPPED THE TOUCHDOWN WHEN NO ONE ELSE COULD?!?!?


I'm glad he can do his job properly once in awhile.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:42 PM
He'll make some of those misses back by not having to be out of position when he's covering for Page's sorry ass...

Page is just as poor a tackler as Pollard is. The difference is he can actually do something well - COVER.

Pollard's best attribute is special teams play.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:44 PM
Page is just as poor a tackler as Pollard is. The difference is he can actually do something well - COVER.

Pollard's best attribute is special teams play.

Gee, a FS who can Cover?!?!?!? Well who the fuck would have thought of that?! :rolleyes:

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 12:46 PM
Page is just as poor a tackler as Pollard is. The difference is he can actually do something well - COVER.

Pollard's best attribute is special teams play.

Um no.

About 90% of the time you see Pollard chasing a WR down from the other side of the field it's because Page was out of position.

The idea that Page can cover is a huge MYTH. He's one of the worst players on the defense.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:50 PM
The idea that Page can cover is a huge MYTH.

Garbage.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:51 PM
Um no.

About 90% of the time you see Pollard chasing a WR down from the other side of the field it's because Page was out of position.

The idea that Page can cover is a huge MYTH. He's one of the worst players on the defense.

Truth.

BigChiefFan
03-26-2009, 12:52 PM
Pollard's weakness isn't his tackling.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Pollard's weakness isn't his tackling.

Elaborate?

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:53 PM
Pollard's weakness isn't his tackling.

His weakness is that he's an overall shitty defender.

His poor tackling is just one facet.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 12:54 PM
Garbage.

You spend too much time thinking about your next scoop and not enough time watching the games.

Pestilence
03-26-2009, 12:55 PM
His weakness is that he's an overall shitty defender.

His poor tackling is just one facet.

I'm inclined not to believe what you say. Devard Darling was supposed to be great.....and he hasn't amounted to shit.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:56 PM
His weakness is that he's an overall shitty defender.

His poor tackling is just one facet.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/ANTIFREEZECOCKTAIL.png

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:57 PM
You spend too much time thinking about your next scoop and not enough time watching the games.

Page had 12 passes defensed last year, and you want to tell me he can't cover. The Chiefs single him up on Antonio Gates ALL THE TIME, and he shuts him down, and you want to tell me can't cover.

The Chiefs re-signed him this offseason, and you want to tell me he can't cover.

I know one thing - he wasn't re-signed because he's a good tackler.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 12:57 PM
I'm inclined not to believe what you say. Devard Darling was supposed to be great.....and he hasn't amounted to shit.

What, do you not watch the games or something?

Pollard is out there every week missing tackles.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 12:59 PM
What, do you not watch the games or something?

Pollard is out there every week missing tackles.

I watch my games on planet Earth, not Superman's Bizzaro-World where everything is ass-backwards.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 01:00 PM
DaJuan Morgan will take Pollard's starting job. You watch.

By the end of the year you'll fall on your hands and knees begging for forgiveness. "Forgive me, Claythan!" you'll scream. And I'll look down and whisper....no.

Pestilence
03-26-2009, 01:02 PM
What, do you not watch the games or something?

Pollard is out there every week missing tackles.

Well he must be around the ball carrier every time then because for two seasons in a row now he's gone over 90 tackles.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 01:04 PM
Well he must be around the ball carrier every time then because for two seasons in a row now he's gone over 90 tackles.

Oh boy, here we go again...people pimping bloody TACKLE stats. :shake:

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 01:05 PM
What, do you not watch the games or something?

Pollard is out there every week missing tackles.

Pollard was late to many many plays because it wasn't his side of the field but Page couldn't get there in time.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 01:05 PM
DaJuan Morgan will take Pollard's starting job. You watch.

By the end of the year you'll fall on your hands and knees begging for forgiveness. "Forgive me, Claythan!" you'll scream. And I'll look down and whisper....no.

ROFL N***a' PLEASE!

Fuckin' DaJaun Morgan! ROFLROFLROFL

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 01:06 PM
The Chiefs single him up on Antonio Gates ALL THE TIME, and he shuts him down, and you want to tell me can't cover.

That's great.

For a LINEBACKER.

He's supposed to be a free safety. Unfortunately, he fails at that.

SNR
03-26-2009, 01:07 PM
DaJuan Morgan will take Pollard's starting job. You watch.

By the end of the year you'll fall on your hands and knees begging for forgiveness. "Forgive me, Claythan!" you'll scream. And I'll look down and whisper....no.There's another player who has proved jack shit. I wouldn't be so confident in this. He could improve dramatically, or he could continue to suck balls.

Hog Farmer
03-26-2009, 01:10 PM
I'd say we better draft a running back because Lj's attitude will no longer fit.

Detoxing
03-26-2009, 01:18 PM
Lol @ Page can cover. That's pretty funny. Yes, Page has good range. But range does not = the ability to cover. And I agree that Pollard probably will never be a pro-bowler, but i think he could be pretty solid. At least Pollard gives you something to hope for. Page looks like a back up or special teamer.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 01:30 PM
I'd say we better draft a running back because Lj's attitude will no longer fit.

Can't get either now, but a year or two? Hell yes:

RB Darren Evans -- He had the best season a freshman running back has ever had at Tech, capping it off with a record-breaking 153-yard, one TD performance in the Orange Bowl. He's known for bowling defenders over, and he has a nose for the endzone (11 TDs in 2008). The Hokies will likely use him in a two-RB set, along with impressive redshirt freshman Ryan Williams, but he should still get the bulk of the carries.

I hate when the You Tuber's use teh ghey music:
<object width="425" height="344">


<embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/RcMjsALdgQ0&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></object>

By all indications, Williams is even MORE of a bad ass. I caught one of the mid September games where they let him come in for a quarter or so, and he can read the line, find holes when the play breaks down, and get positive yardage. Tough as fuck too.

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 01:38 PM
ROFL N***a' PLEASE!

Fuckin' DaJaun Morgan! ROFLROFLROFL

ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL whats so ridiculous about that?

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 01:41 PM
That's great.

For a LINEBACKER.

He's supposed to be a free safety. Unfortunately, he fails at that.

You're moving the goalposts.

ANYONE that can match up one-on-one with Gates and shut him down is a good player. REGARDLESS of position.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 01:41 PM
ROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFLROFL whats so ridiculous about that?

The day Morgan takes Pollard's job, is the day I follow Mecca down the "Rape Myself With A Toilet Brush" trail.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 01:42 PM
At least Pollard gives you something to hope for. Page looks like a back up or special teamer.

Garbage. Pollard gives no one anything to hope for. Between the two, Page makes more plays. There's no question. No question at all.

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 01:44 PM
The day Morgan takes Pollard's job, is the day I follow Mecca down the "Rape Myself With A Toilet Brush" trail.

pollard was a 2nd round pick and morgan was a 3rd. the idea that morgan could take over for pollard considing pollards performance thus far is not that far out of the realm. so get that brush ready...

Woodrow Call
03-26-2009, 01:44 PM
They both make me yearn for Shaunard Harts

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 01:46 PM
Garbage. Pollard gives no one anything to hope for. Between the two, Page makes more plays. There's no question. No question at all.

Garbage. DeMorrio Williams had more impact in one game against Denver than Page has had all year.

"Chiseled in to stone by the hand of Zeus, and passed on directly to you; the football enthusiast".

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 01:47 PM
Garbage. DeMorrio Williams had more impact in one game against Denver than Page has had all year.


You're talking out your ass. That's all there is to it.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 01:47 PM
You're talking out your ass. That's all there is to it.

No.

R&GHomer
03-26-2009, 01:57 PM
I'd say we better draft a running back because Lj's attitude will no longer fit.

I agree... If LJ doesn't change his attitude, Haley is going to go all Drama queen on his azz. :doh!:

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:00 PM
You're moving the goalposts.

ANYONE that can match up one-on-one with Gates and shut him down is a good player. REGARDLESS of position.

Page is supposed to be a COVER 2 SAFETY.

Yet he has poor play recognition, no zone discipline, and is slow. All of those in combination result in him being out of position the majority of the time.

If you want him to play just to cover Gates, by all means put him on special teams. A starting NFL safety he is not.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:01 PM
Garbage. Pollard gives no one anything to hope for. Between the two, Page makes more plays. There's no question. No question at all.

You obviously don't watch ANY college football.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 02:02 PM
Page is supposed to be a COVER 2 SAFETY.

Yet he has poor play recognition, no zone discipline, and is slow. All of those in combination result in him being out of position the majority of the time.

If you want him to play just to cover Gates, by all means put him on special teams. A starting NFL safety he is not.

:eek:ROFL

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 02:05 PM
If you want him to play Cover Gates, by all means put him on special teams.

He would lose the job; that's Whitlock's favorite position.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/GATESSAUCE.jpg

Delano
03-26-2009, 02:10 PM
There's another player who has proved jack shit. I wouldn't be so confident in this. He could improve dramatically, or he could continue to suck balls.

Morgan had very little experience coming out of NC State. He only started one year at NCST and he missed his senior year of high school.

Great physical skills but his game needs experience and polishing. Good DB coaching should help. Hopefully Pendergast and Collier can help Morgan rise to his potential.

Give him a little time.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:16 PM
Morgan had very little experience coming out of NC State. He only started one year at NCST and he missed his senior year of high school.

Great physical skills but his game needs experience and polishing. Good DB coaching should help. Hopefully Pendergast and Collier can help Morgan rise to his potential.

Give him a little time.

If the coaching "excuse" works for Morgan, it works for Pollard too. Hell, it works for just about everybody on the defense.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 02:16 PM
You obviously don't watch ANY college football.

I can only assume you don't watch any Chiefs football.

Page made a ton of plays on the ball last year.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:18 PM
I can only assume you don't watch any Chiefs football.

Page made a ton of plays on the ball last year.

If you had seen Pollard play in college, you'd know why suggesting there's "no hope" is downright laughable.

And making plays on balls that aren't in the right place doesn't mean one is in position.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 02:19 PM
If you had seen Pollard play in college, you'd know why suggesting there's "no hope" is downright laughable.


Please. All the guy does is miss tackles! How can anyone defend this clown! Who cares what he did THREE YEARS AGO in COLLEGE for crying out loud!

Delano
03-26-2009, 02:21 PM
If the coaching "excuse" works for Morgan, it works for Pollard too. Hell, it works for just about everybody on the defense.

I'm excited to see what Pollard can do this year. I'm not holding my breath that he has a break out year, but there should be some improvement.

I was trying to point out that Morgan doesn't suck balls like SNR posted. He was incredibly raw last year-tons of physical talent, but little experience.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 02:22 PM
I'm excited to see what Pollard can do this year

Posted by various Chiefsplanet posters after the 2006 draft, during the 2007 offseason, and during the 2008 offseason.

:shake:

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-26-2009, 02:23 PM
The day Morgan takes Pollard's job, is the day I follow Mecca down the "Rape Myself With A Toilet Brush" trail.

DaJuan Morgan is by far the most physically talented player in that entire secondary. A lot of people had him rated as the best safety in last year's draft.


And if he's taking anyone's job next year, it will be Page's and not Pollard's.

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 02:23 PM
If the coaching "excuse" works for Morgan, it works for Pollard too. Hell, it works for just about everybody on the defense.

this is the explanation for pretty much everybody the past 3 years

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 02:24 PM
DaJuan Morgan is by far the most physically talented player in that entire secondary. A lot of people had him rated as the best safety in last year's draft.



dont tell him that, now he's gonna go around pimping morgan like hes the next best thing.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Please. All the guy does is miss tackles! How can anyone defend this clown! Who cares what he did THREE YEARS AGO in COLLEGE for crying out loud!

Until I see him fail under REAL COACHES I'm not writing him off.

He was a 2-time all Big 10 safety at a time when the conference featured the likes of Donte Whitner and Bob Sanders. I watched the guy play many, many times before he was ever drafted and he's a good safety.

As for defending this clown, take a look in the mirror. You're defending a player that would be a special-teamer on any other team...

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 02:25 PM
Meanwhile Pollard IS a special teamer. ON THE CHIEFS!

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:26 PM
Posted by various Chiefsplanet posters after the 2006 draft, during the 2007 offseason, and during the 2008 offseason.

:shake:

Fire Herm!

Posted by various Chiefsplanet posters after the 2006 draft, during the 2007 offseason, and during the 2008 offseason.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:27 PM
Meanwhile Pollard IS a special teamer. ON THE CHIEFS!

Then he should work immediately to get released. Because about 80% of the guys that are declared busts in KC go on to do better somewhere else...you know, where they get REAL coaching.

Delano
03-26-2009, 02:27 PM
Posted by various Chiefsplanet posters after the 2006 draft, during the 2007 offseason, and during the 2008 offseason.

:shake:

It's obvious he isn't a great fit for the cover 2. He's playing on a 4 year, 3 million dollar contract. If he is mediocre in 2009 he's gone or a special teams specialist. No big deal.

(waits for clayton to say Pollard isn't a great fit for any scheme)

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-26-2009, 02:28 PM
dont tell him that, now he's gonna go around pimping morgan like hes the next best thing.

http://www.mcstylin.com/wwecharacters/hallofchamps/BROC.jpg

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 02:28 PM
It's obvious he isn't a great fit for the cover 2. He's playing on a 4 year, 3 million dollar contract. If he is mediocre in 2009 he's gone or a special teams specialist. No big deal.

(waits for clayton to say Pollard isn't a great fit for any scheme)

Ex-freaking-zackly.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 02:29 PM
Then he should work immediately to get released. Because about 80% of the guys that are declared busts in KC go on to do better somewhere else...you know, where they get REAL coaching.

True. Very, very true.

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.mcstylin.com/wwecharacters/hallofchamps/BROC.jpg

those are weak ass traps.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 02:30 PM
There's nothing mediocre about 12 passes defensed.

Ed Reed had 16 last year.

Bernard Pollard had one.

Delano
03-26-2009, 02:30 PM
http://www.mcstylin.com/wwecharacters/hallofchamps/BROC.jpg

Would have been better with the phallic tattoo.

L.A. Chieffan
03-26-2009, 02:31 PM
i dont think we can pass judgement on our defensive players with both herm and cunther telling them what to do it's no wonder they haven't gone columbine on arrowhead

Micjones
03-26-2009, 03:26 PM
If I want any Safety to lose his job, I'd much rather see Pollard sent to the sideline.
Page makes plays.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 03:27 PM
If I want any Safety to lose his job, I'd much rather see Pollard sent to the sideline.
Page makes plays.

Thank fuck for common sense.

banyon
03-26-2009, 03:43 PM
I missed when we signed Engram. That's a solid #3.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 03:43 PM
If I want any Safety to lose his job, I'd much rather see Pollard sent to the sideline.
Page makes plays.

http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/ANTIFREEZECOCKTAIL.png

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 03:44 PM
Thank fuck for common sense.

Piss on you!

Pestilence
03-26-2009, 03:47 PM
There's nothing mediocre about 12 passes defensed.

Ed Reed had 16 last year.

Bernard Pollard had one.

Where do you get your stats?

NFL.com says that Reed had 25 and Jarrad Page had 16.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 04:12 PM
Where do you get your stats?

NFL.com says that Reed had 25 and Jarrad Page had 16.

They're including interceptions.

Pestilence
03-26-2009, 04:13 PM
They're including interceptions.

Stupid fucking NFL.com.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 04:15 PM
You guys think Ed Reed is going to the HOF?

43 career interceptions and five touchdowns. And he's only 30.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 04:26 PM
You guys think Ed Reed is going to the HOF?

43 career interceptions and five touchdowns. And he's only 30.

No, but Devard Darling sure is! To the ship! :rolleyes:

TRR
03-26-2009, 05:29 PM
It seems Chiefsplanet is always unhappy with one or both of KC's safeties. I remember the same thread regarding Wesley and Woods.

I think KC has a lot more to worry about than the play of their current safeties. We aren't talking future HOF players here, but they are both serviceable in my opinion.

What I want to see is both Page and Pollard in a scheme that is both consistent, and fits their ability. Put Pollard in a position to make plays in the run game, and jar the ball loose over the middle, and let Page be a playmaker in the secondary. That's what Page was allowed to do as a rookie, and KC needs to get back to that IMO.

Micjones
03-26-2009, 05:35 PM
http://i304.photobucket.com/albums/nn182/lightbringerrr/ANTIFREEZECOCKTAIL.png

Proof's in the pudding.
He's single-handedly helped secure wins for this team.
One more than one occasion.

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 05:52 PM
It seems Chiefsplanet is always unhappy with one or both of KC's safeties. I remember the same thread regarding Wesley and Woods.

I think KC has a lot more to worry about than the play of their current safeties. We aren't talking future HOF players here, but they are both serviceable in my opinion.

What I want to see is both Page and Pollard in a scheme that is both consistent, and fits their ability. Put Pollard in a position to make plays in the run game, and jar the ball loose over the middle, and let Page be a playmaker in the secondary. That's what Page was allowed to do as a rookie, and KC needs to get back to that IMO.

Excellent, reasonable post. I feel ashamed now.

Darth CarlSatan
03-26-2009, 06:59 PM
Proof's in the pudding.
He's single-handedly helped secure wins for this team.
One more than one occasion.

http://www.mywavv.com/Scripts/ChiefsvsBroncos2008.htm

Three touchdowns single-handidly foiled. Get to watchin'.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 07:06 PM
Put Pollard in a position to make plays in the run game

Why, so he can miss more tackles?

The guy was placed in a position to defend the run numerous times last year. He's a liability in the open field against ANY decent running back.

He sure does look good in Under Armor, though!

htismaqe
03-26-2009, 07:15 PM
Why, so he can miss more tackles?

The guy was placed in a position to defend the run numerous times last year. He's a liability in the open field against ANY decent running back.

He sure does look good in Under Armor, though!

Seriously, oh he of the highlight videos.

Prove it.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 07:40 PM
Unfortunately, Parker, I don't save the games. Just the highlights. And Pollard didn't have too many.

Sam Hall
03-26-2009, 07:59 PM
I'd like to see Terrance Copper be our No. 2 receiver over Darling. That was my first impression when Copper signed.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:05 PM
Copper has 0 catches in two years and you expect him to compete for a starting job.

Herm, is that you?

JASONSAUTO
03-26-2009, 08:10 PM
Copper has 0 catches in two years and you expect him to compete for a starting job.

Herm, is that you?

what was darling's stat line prior to last year? like 18 career catches IIRC and YOU sucked the guy off for the better part of last year

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:13 PM
what was darling's stat line prior to last year? like 18 career catches IIRC and YOU sucked the guy off for the better part of last year

I have decided I do not enjoy debating you. I will not debate you now or in the future.

Sam Hall
03-26-2009, 08:14 PM
The 2008 stats I saw for Copper were actually his career stats:banghead:

RustShack
03-26-2009, 08:15 PM
I'd like to see Terrance Copper be our No. 2 receiver over Darling. That was my first impression when Copper signed.

I'd like to see Mark Bradley our #2 receiver. If not him then Engram.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:17 PM
I believe he worked with Haley in Dallas so he might think he saw something in Copper.

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:19 PM
BTW, I'll get destroyed for this, but I still think Darling has the potential to be a good player with the right quarterback throwing him the ball. Last year's retardo attack gave him no chance to be successful at the start of the season and they immediately demoted him after they picked up Bradley.

JASONSAUTO
03-26-2009, 08:21 PM
I have decided I do not enjoy debating you. I will not debate you now or in the future.

glad to see you figured out that i'm always right when i disagree with you

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:23 PM
glad to see you figured out that i'm always right when i disagree with you

It is not a matter of being right or wrong. I have decided I do not enjoy debating you. I will not debate you now or in the future.

JASONSAUTO
03-26-2009, 08:24 PM
It is not a matter of being right or wrong. I have decided I do not enjoy debating you. I will not debate you now or in the future.

bullshit

Count Zarth
03-26-2009, 08:25 PM
bullshit

I will not debate you now or in the future.

JASONSAUTO
03-26-2009, 08:26 PM
I will not debate you now or in the future.

ROFLROFL because i call it like i see it, bullshit like just about everything that comes out of your mouth

Darth CarlSatan
03-27-2009, 12:22 AM
I will not debate you now or in the future.

ROFLROFL because i call it like i see it, bullshit like just about everything that comes out of your mouth

LMAO Okay, that exchange was priceless!

Micjones
03-27-2009, 12:31 AM
BTW, I'll get destroyed for this, but I still think Darling has the potential to be a good player with the right quarterback throwing him the ball. Last year's retardo attack gave him no chance to be successful at the start of the season and they immediately demoted him after they picked up Bradley.

The guy has the tools.
He just manages to be invisible for an entire game week in and week out.

Darth CarlSatan
03-27-2009, 12:47 AM
The guy has the tools.
He just manages to be invisible for an entire game week in and week out.

The main knock I have on Darling is that he was brought in to be our speed guy, our "burner". And he hasn't really delivered on that thus far.

Now perhaps with Cassel, he might be able to get it going. I don't think it's a good idea to count most ALL of these guys out, when you factor in Herm Edwards.

We might be sitting on a shitload of Pro Bowlers and not even know it. We'll see. They're getting ready to go to Haley Boot Camp, and those who survive it will become better players; that much I DO know.

We'll see.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 12:49 AM
The main knock I have on Darling is that he was brought in to be our speed guy, our "burner". And he hasn't really delivered on that thus far.

Do you think he was really given a chance on an offense run according to Herm?


Now perhaps with Cassel, he might be able to get it going. I don't think it's a good idea to count most ALL of these guys out, when you factor in Herm Edwards.

NOW you're cooking with gas!

Darth CarlSatan
03-27-2009, 12:57 AM
Do you think he was really given a chance on an offense run according to Herm?



NOW you're cooking with gas!

As Apprentice to Lord Pioli, patience is one of the many virtues stressed in the sometimes cruel and brutal training. :fire:

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 08:33 AM
Do you think he was really given a chance on an offense run according to Herm!

Come on and man up, Clay.

If that excuse works for Darling, it works for Pollard. And yes, I'm man enough it works for Page too.

Our coaching was awful, on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 11:12 AM
Come on and man up, Clay.

If that excuse works for Darling, it works for Pollard. And yes, I'm man enough it works for Page too.

Our coaching was awful, on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL.

The difference between Darling and Pollard is:

1. This was Darling's first year of starting.

2. Darling wasn't going out there and dropping passes.

Pollard was in his second year of starting full-time. They gave Darling about five games before they gave up on him. And Pollard routinely went out there and missed tackle after tackle after tackle, every week.

Page doesn't need excuses. He's a playmaker.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:14 AM
Darling wasn't dropping passes because they weren't coming to him, because he wasn't getting open, because he's no good.

Page is an alright role-player who could see limited playing time in a game on a good team, but I can't stand watching him try to tackle a running back with any kind of juke move.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 11:16 AM
I can't stand watching him try to tackle a running back with any kind of juke move.

I could say the same for Bernard "OH SHIT" Pollard.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:23 AM
I think Pollard's a hard worker who will only improve in the new environment. I think we may have seen the last of Page as a full-time starter.

But yes, his open-field tackling needs to improve, too.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:25 AM
I'm not a fan of Pollard if it was my call he'd have McGraws role, the backup special teams guy.

But that's just my personal preference in safeties I prefer guys who can really run with outstanding cover ability and or ball skills.

Eric Berry is going to be probably my favorite prospect next year for that reason.

Micjones
03-27-2009, 11:29 AM
The main knock I have on Darling is that he was brought in to be our speed guy, our "burner". And he hasn't really delivered on that thus far.

Now perhaps with Cassel, he might be able to get it going. I don't think it's a good idea to count most ALL of these guys out, when you factor in Herm Edwards.

We might be sitting on a shitload of Pro Bowlers and not even know it. We'll see. They're getting ready to go to Haley Boot Camp, and those who survive it will become better players; that much I DO know.

We'll see.

I honestly don't have much faith in Darling, but he should definitely be in the mix. We don't have great options at the moment so a guy with his skills should at the least be in competition for a spot.

Engram locks down your #3 spot.
The #2 is up for grabs. Me thinks that's Bradley's job to lose though.
But he definitely can't win it in the tub.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:30 AM
The difference between Darling and Pollard is:

1. This was Darling's first year of starting.

2. Darling wasn't going out there and dropping passes.

Pollard was in his second year of starting full-time. They gave Darling about five games before they gave up on him. And Pollard routinely went out there and missed tackle after tackle after tackle, every week.

Page doesn't need excuses. He's a playmaker.

I don't honestly know what to say. I didn't see Pollard miss tackle after tackle. I saw him miss tackles, but I also saw him struggling to CONTINUOUSLY cover for a woefully inadequate FS. I think you're focusing on Page's INT's and not looking at how bad he is the other 75% of the time.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:31 AM
It seems Chiefsplanet is always unhappy with one or both of KC's safeties. I remember the same thread regarding Wesley and Woods.

I think KC has a lot more to worry about than the play of their current safeties. We aren't talking future HOF players here, but they are both serviceable in my opinion.

What I want to see is both Page and Pollard in a scheme that is both consistent, and fits their ability. Put Pollard in a position to make plays in the run game, and jar the ball loose over the middle, and let Page be a playmaker in the secondary. That's what Page was allowed to do as a rookie, and KC needs to get back to that IMO.

We've been jinxed at the position ever since we drafted Jerome Woods ahead of Lawyer Milloy then turned around in the 2nd round and drafted Reggie Tongue in front of Brian Dawkins, talk about taking the wrong safeties.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:31 AM
I'm not a fan of Pollard if it was my call he'd have McGraws role, the backup special teams guy.

But that's just my personal preference in safeties I prefer guys who can really run with outstanding cover ability and or ball skills.

Eric Berry is going to be probably my favorite prospect next year for that reason.

Pollard isn't a coverage safety. He's a pseudo-LB and he was a damn good prospect coming out. It isn't his fault that Gunther and Herm tried to jam a square peg into a round hole with him.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 11:32 AM
I don't honestly know what to say. I didn't see Pollard miss tackle after tackle.

Every week he would come down in the box, get one-on-one with someone and lose his jock. EVERY WEEK! I bitched about him in game threads all the time. One time he tried to go for a knockout on Michael Clayton and BLOCKED DONNIE EDWARDS OUT OF THE PLAY. He SUCKS.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:33 AM
Pollard isn't a coverage safety. He's a pseudo-LB and he was a damn good prospect coming out. It isn't his fault that Gunther and Herm tried to jam a square peg into a round hole with him.

That's what he is and guys like that are becoming harder to win with because in todays game you pretty much have to have speed and cover ability to play in the secondary.

It's not my personal preference on how I'd build a secondary but if they can make it work so be it.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:33 AM
I'm seriously praying Dajuan Morgan can step up next year and play FS. There were some decent safeties on the market I'm kind of surprised we didn't go after one. I'm thinking most if not all of them were more SS types.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:35 AM
Morgan needs time, the talent is there, he's just very raw.

His upside is far higher than any other safety on this roster. Personally I'd be looking at safeties if one came along but I know some will disagree I think Page and Pollard are backups.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:37 AM
Every week he would come down in the box, get one-on-one with someone and lose his jock. EVERY WEEK! I bitched about him in game threads all the time. One time he tried to go for a knockout on Michael Clayton and BLOCKED DONNIE EDWARDS OUT OF THE PLAY. He SUCKS.

That's one play dude. I saw it too.

But I certainly didn't see it over and over again, like you said.

What I did see over and over again was Page not being in the right place in zone coverage.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:37 AM
Pollard's ceiling is high enough for him to develop into a fine SS. Let's not forget the Pats had a slow SS Rodney Harrison.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:37 AM
Morgan needs time, the talent is there, he's just very raw.

His upside is far higher than any other safety on this roster. Personally I'd be looking at safeties if one came along but I know some will disagree I think Page and Pollard are backups.

I actually don't disagree.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Page is faster, neither one tackles all that well and have a tendency to end up out of position in short they're both kind of stupid.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Like you said, Parker, agree to disagree. We'll see who gets sent to the bench first. If it's Page I'll eat my crow.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Pollard's ceiling is high enough for him to develop into a fine SS. Let's not forget the Pats had a slow SS Rodney Harrison.

Adrian Wilson isn't a burner either.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 11:38 AM
Pollard's ceiling is high enough for him to develop into a fine SS. Let's not forget the Pats had a slow SS Rodney Harrison.

Rodney Harrison could tackle.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Pollard's ceiling is high enough for him to develop into a fine SS. Let's not forget the Pats had a slow SS Rodney Harrison.

He gets by because he's smart and is always in the right position...if you're slow and end up out of position alot you are a giant liability.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Like you said, Parker, agree to disagree. We'll see who gets sent to the bench first. If it's Page I'll eat my crow.

With any luck it won't matter because we'll have two new, and more talented, safeties soon.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Page is faster, neither one tackles all that well and have a tendency to end up out of position in short they're both kind of stupid.
But which safety has shown improvement and appears to be getting less stupid with each season?

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Adrian Wilson isn't a burner either.

I'd argue with you that he's much more athletically gifted than Pollard is...he's a big 220lb guy but he can run pretty well for that size.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:39 AM
Rodney Harrison could tackle.

Pollard doesn't tackle well. He's too concerned with hitting people and not wrapping them up.

Of course, EVERYBODY on this defense has had that problem.

Again, some of these issues seem to be coaching.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:40 AM
With any luck it won't matter because we'll have two new, and more talented, safeties soon.

If Berry or Mays was in this draft I'd be all for the Chiefs taking one of them.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:41 AM
I'd argue with you that he's much more athletically gifted than Pollard is...he's a big 220lb guy but he can run pretty well for that size.

Pollard is very athletically gifted. You guys' opinion is colored by the fact that you haven't seen him play in anything other than a Chiefs' uniform.

And as bad as this team has been for FOUR DECADES that should NEVER be the sole way to evaluate a person.

KC is where good players come to suck.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:41 AM
I've heard mays is a great athlete and great study of the game, but I've also heard the instincts just might not be there. I'm unsure what to make of him.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:42 AM
Pollard had like a 10'8 broad jump or something like that coming out, I don't remember his 40 but the guy has potential.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:42 AM
Hey can Pollard do this...

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/7vL19q8yL54&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/7vL19q8yL54&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Pollard had like a 10'8 broad jump or something like that coming out, I don't remember his 40 but the guy has potential.

His 40 was more LB time than DB time I remember the debate.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:43 AM
Height: 6015
Weight: 224
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash: 2.67
10 Yrd Dash: 1.58 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'11"

WOW

Can Mays get a 10'11" broad?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=12594&draftyear=2006&genpos=SS

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:44 AM
He ran a 4.59 at the combine.

The thing is, he was as good as a safety as there was in the Big 10 in 2004. He was All Big 10 twice, while both Donte Whitner and Bob Sanders played in the league. Pollard had everything going for him until he got into it with Tiller. He's not the fastest guy in the league but he WAS a good FOOTBALL PLAYER.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:46 AM
He ran a 4.59 at the combine.

The thing is, he was as good as a safety as there was in the Big 10 in 2004. He was All Big 10 twice, while both Donte Whitner and Bob Sanders played in the league. Pollard had everything going for him until he got into it with Tiller. He's not the fastest guy in the league but he WAS a good FOOTBALL PLAYER.

He hasn't transitioned as well because he doesn't have Whitners natural gifts, Whitner played some CB in college for christ sake.

Whitner is one of the types of safeties I like, runs like a CB, but plays with the safety mentality.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:46 AM
That broadjump is why Pollard (in college) could stand and with no momentum explode into a running back running into him, and drive him onto his back.

RustShack
03-27-2009, 11:49 AM
I think if used right and staying in the same system Pollard can be good. He might not ever be a Pro Bowler, but you can't have those at every position.

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:49 AM
He hasn't transitioned as well because he doesn't have Whitners natural gifts, Whitner played some CB in college for christ sake.

Whitner is one of the types of safeties I like, runs like a CB, but plays with the safety mentality.

He hasn't transitioned well in part because he's had the worst coaching in the entire league.

I don't expect him to be a pro-bowler, but I do expect that he, as well as several others, will see improvement in a better scheme.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:51 AM
No amount of coaching is going to change his speed, he basically plays like he has the speed to make up for mistakes when he doesn't.

They may be able to get to where he makes less mistakes but in a pass happy league having a safety like Pollard is just asking for trouble.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 11:55 AM
Height: 6015
Weight: 224
40 Yrd Dash: 4.57
20 Yrd Dash: 2.67
10 Yrd Dash: 1.58 225 Lb. Bench Reps:
Vertical Jump: 36 1/2
Broad Jump: 10'11"

WOW

Can Mays get a 10'11" broad?

http://www.nfldraftscout.com/ratings/dsprofile.php?pyid=12594&draftyear=2006&genpos=SS

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/fElPe-xY9yM&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/fElPe-xY9yM&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 11:57 AM
No amount of coaching is going to change his speed, he basically plays like he has the speed to make up for mistakes when he doesn't.

They may be able to get to where he makes less mistakes but in a pass happy league having a safety like Pollard is just asking for trouble.

I agree. He's not going to ever be a coverage safety. If he's lucky, he'll go to team like the Colts who could use him at OLB, because that's probably going to his best position in the NFL.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 11:59 AM
So he's definitely got some explosion.

What do you think about the comments I heard regarding his instincts?

RustShack
03-27-2009, 12:00 PM
Didn't the Raiders use a high draft pick in a safety recently because of speed? I don't think he worked out for them and I don't think being much faster than Pollard is a major need for a SS.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 12:02 PM
Didn't the Raiders use a high draft pick in a safety recently because of speed? I don't think he worked out for them and I don't think being much faster than Pollard is a major need for a SS.

Yea he was from Texas that's all we really need to know about why he didn't work out from Texas to Oakland...I can't think of a worst possible combination.

Mecca
03-27-2009, 12:03 PM
So he's definitely got some explosion.

What do you think about the comments I heard regarding his instincts?

The only knock I have for Mays is ball skills and that's mostly because of the way he's been used he's never really been put in position to make plays on the ball. He was mainly used as a deep cover 1 safety because he could literally cover basically the entire deep zone by himself.

He supposedly is going to be used differently next year so he may show off his blitz and ballskill ability then.

bdeg
03-27-2009, 12:06 PM
That sounds like a perfect fit right there, although I'm hoping Morgan can be that guy eventually.

Count Zarth
03-27-2009, 12:06 PM
He hasn't transitioned well in part because he's had the worst coaching in the entire league.


You don't think highly of David Gibbs?

htismaqe
03-27-2009, 12:16 PM
You don't think highly of David Gibbs?

I don't think highly of anybody that coached under both Herm and Gunther simultaneously.

milkman
03-28-2009, 07:51 AM
The difference between Darling and Pollard is:

1. This was Darling's first year of starting.

2. Darling wasn't going out there and dropping passes.

Pollard was in his second year of starting full-time. They gave Darling about five games before they gave up on him. And Pollard routinely went out there and missed tackle after tackle after tackle, every week.

Page doesn't need excuses. He's a playmaker.

Page is a playmaker?

That's the funniest shit ever.

Page is a playmaker.

JFC.

LMAO.

Count Zarth
03-28-2009, 10:08 AM
Page is a playmaker?

That's the funniest shit ever.

Page is a playmaker.

JFC.

LMAO.

23 passes defensed and 10 interceptions in three years. And a few hard licks thrown in for good measure.

In fact he had his BEST year last year with no pass rush. He was all over the place making plays on the ball.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:13 AM
23 passes defensed and 10 interceptions in three years. And a few hard licks thrown in for good measure.

In fact he had his BEST year last year with no pass rush. He was all over the place making plays on the ball.

Stat lines suggest he's been productive, no question.

People who are more knowledgeable about secondary responsibilities, however, will point to the fact that the dude routinely blows his.

bdeg
03-28-2009, 10:14 AM
if by making plays you mean missing them

he was certainly "all over the place" though

Count Zarth
03-28-2009, 10:15 AM
Stat lines suggest he's been productive, no question.

People who are more knowledgeable about secondary responsibilities, however, will point to the fact that the dude routinely blows his responsibilities.

Look, I'm not saying the guy doesn't make mistakes. He has issues. But he also makes plays. A lot of plays. Every damn week.

I'm just wondering when Pioli is going to come to his sense and sign Greg Wesley. :D

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:16 AM
I'm just wondering when Pioli is going to come to his sense and sign Greg Wesley. :D

The poster child for unfulfilled potential is probably somewhere still patting Derek Anderson on the ass.

bdeg
03-28-2009, 10:18 AM
Yup. Wesley could've been good, but he didn't want to be here and would routinely quit on plays. It was so frustrating watching him not feel like tackling the other team's backup qb as he rushed for a 20 yard td.

bdeg
03-28-2009, 10:20 AM
I don't know if he thought someone else was going to make the play or what, but I would've traded him the next day. I believe Denver supposedly had an offer on the table at some point. Let em have him.

bdeg
03-28-2009, 10:25 AM
Page is a clutch player who has some ball skills, but he's too slow and not great enough at reading plays to be a FS, especially if he isn't splitting the zone with Pollard. He's also not a good enough tackler to play SS. He's a backup/role-player.

TRR
03-28-2009, 10:27 AM
Why, so he can miss more tackles?

The guy was placed in a position to defend the run numerous times last year. He's a liability in the open field against ANY decent running back.

He sure does look good in Under Armor, though!

Almost any safety in the NFL is a liability against an NFL RB in the open field. I think your taking Pollard's tackling issues to a level that far exceeds reality. Does he miss tackles? Sure...almost every defender in the NFL does. But I think he has shown the ability to break down and lay the wood as well.

htismaqe
03-28-2009, 10:34 AM
Look, I'm not saying the guy doesn't make mistakes. He has issues. But he also makes plays. A lot of plays. Every damn week.

I'm just wondering when Pioli is going to come to his sense and sign Greg Wesley. :D

He easily makes 3 times the mistakes that he makes plays.

Count Zarth
03-28-2009, 10:45 AM
Almost any safety in the NFL is a liability against an NFL RB in the open field.

Wow, the level people will go to in order to make excuses for Pollard is UNBELIEVABLE!

milkman
03-28-2009, 10:49 AM
Wow, the level people will go to in order to make excuses for Pollard is UNBELIEVABLE!

What is really unbelievable is the sheer number of scrubs you've pimped.

picasso
03-28-2009, 11:12 AM
Wow, the level people will go to in order to make excuses for Pollard is UNBELIEVABLE!

The problems that Pollard was having last year was Edwards not having a Dline to stop the run and both Pollard and Page were put on islands.
Page was caught many times floating in the secondary expecting the run and getting beat over the top consistently.

Count Zarth
03-29-2009, 02:26 PM
Amazing.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3419/0001sdky.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0001sdky.jpg)

CHENZ A!
03-29-2009, 02:36 PM
Amazing.

http://img150.imageshack.us/img150/3419/0001sdky.jpg (http://img150.imageshack.us/my.php?image=0001sdky.jpg)

Who are the two white guys on the ends, and who is the creeper smiling in the back?

doomy3
03-29-2009, 02:45 PM
Who are the two white guys on the ends, and who is the creeper smiling in the back?

I think that's Cassel on the left end and Colquitt on the right end.

I can't tell who the guy in the back is

Mecca
03-29-2009, 02:47 PM
Both of the safeties have huge issues in their games that make them better backups than starters...there now maybe this lame argument can end.

Count Zarth
03-29-2009, 02:54 PM
Who are the two white guys on the ends, and who is the creeper smiling in the back?

Cassel, Colquitt and Thigpen.