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SNR
03-26-2009, 12:10 PM
Forgive me, I usually don't comment about environment topics around here because I don't give a shit. I know I'm also only posting this because it's a hot local issue for me at the moment. But Obama is making a ridiculous claim here. This river valley floods every spring, and it wasn't until a particularly terrible flooding in 1997 that my area (Grand Forks) decided to put up a better, higher, permanent dike to protect the city.

It's obvious Obama just saw that this area was having flood problems and chalked it up to global warming. It has nothing to do with rising average temperatures, here. The land is flat, we get too much snow at once at the end of the winter season, and then it melts. That's what's causing it. If the temperature rises two degrees, or drops two degrees, the same fucking thing happens.

http://www.startribune.com/local/41748492.html?elr=KArksUUUU

Obama: Red River flooding is wakeup call to fight global warming

Last update: March 24, 2009 - 10:29 AM


In a White House interview with a handful of reporters, including Janell Cole of the Forum of Fargo, the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act.

"If you look at the flooding that's going on right now in North Dakota and you say to yourself, 'If you see an increase of 2 degrees, what does that do, in terms of the situation there?' " the president told the reporters. "That indicates the degree to which we have to take this seriously."

Obama began by saying that "the science around climate change is real; it is potentially devastating."

To hear Obama's comments, visit www.inforum.com/event/article/id/235048.

PAUL WALSH

Simplex3
03-26-2009, 12:18 PM
"Never let a crisis go to waste".

We might as well all get used to it. This will be how our politicians operate for the foreseeable future.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-26-2009, 12:24 PM
"Never let a crisis go to waste".

We might as well all get used to it. This will be how our politicians operate for the foreseeable future.

This and an angle to introduce more taxes on the people who not only put up with it, but many will cheerlead for it.

***SPRAYER
03-26-2009, 12:29 PM
ROFL

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 12:57 PM
Actually, the flooding is caused by my excessive flatulence and the subsequent methane combustion that ensues as a result. This gives off a rich amount of carbon dioxide which cataclysmically leads to massive increases in the ENTIRE FREAKING PLANETS temperature, much more than say, when the sun has a bad hair day.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 12:58 PM
Obama says North Dakota floods caused by global warming...
That's a total lie.

He posed the question of the impact of a 2 degree increase in temperatures in an area like the Red River.

He didn't say global warming caused this flooding.

He should have expected people like you would twist his words into a lie like this, though. Shame on him for giving you the window at all.

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 12:59 PM
"Never let a crisis go to waste".

We might as well all get used to it. This will be how our politicians operate for the foreseeable future.Manufactured Crisis are the things of a tyrant.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:00 PM
It's obvious Obama just saw that this area was having flood problems and chalked it up to global warming. It has nothing to do with rising average temperatures, here.
Do you even read your own articles?

"...the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act."


My god.

Radar Chief
03-26-2009, 01:00 PM
Itís Manbearpig. Címon guys, Iím serial!

http://tehresistance.files.wordpress.com/2009/02/manbearpig.jpg

Baby Lee
03-26-2009, 01:17 PM
That's a total lie.

He posed the question of the impact of a 2 degree increase in temperatures in an area like the Red River.

He didn't say global warming caused this flooding.

He should have expected people like you would twist his words into a lie like this, though. Shame on him for giving you the window at all.

Your finessing of the issue isn't any better. So basically, anything that happens anywhere in the world for whatever reason is a call to put more attention on global warming. I just got through futzing around on my car. I'm a little sweaty from the exertion. Perhaps it is an opportune time to consider just how much more sweaty I would have been if it had been 2 degrees hotter.

Face it, he's co-opting.

Pitt Gorilla
03-26-2009, 01:21 PM
Your finessing of the issue isn't any better. So basically, anything that happens anywhere in the world for whatever reason is a call to put more attention on global warming. I just got through futzing around on my car. I'm a little sweaty from the exertion. Perhaps it is an opportune time to consider just how much more sweaty I would have been if it had been 2 degrees hotter.

Face it, he's co-opting.The thread title does appear to be a lie.

SNR
03-26-2009, 01:23 PM
That's a total lie.

He posed the question of the impact of a 2 degree increase in temperatures in an area like the Red River.

He didn't say global warming caused this flooding.

He should have expected people like you would twist his words into a lie like this, though. Shame on him for giving you the window at all.Why bring it up if global warming has nothing to do with this particular disaster? It's a signal? No it's not. It's nothing at all like that.

Christ, it's like a bitter woman in a divorce hearing. "Your honor, let us ignore the fact that my husband is a two-faced lying scumbag who cheated on me, and get to the heart of the matter...." By even bringing the topic up, you're SUGGESTING involvement.

Also, "shame on him for giving you the window at all?" Fuck you with a hot poker. I don't give a flying fuck if he pays attention to my city. Clinton didn't do shit in 1997 until the town was actually flooded. If I have to apologize for him using this local disaster for political purposes, then fuck that

Hydrae
03-26-2009, 01:28 PM
"Never let a crisis go to waste".

We might as well all get used to it. This will be how our politicians operate for the foreseeable future.

That has to be one of the scariest quotes I have ever heard out of DC. Talk about fodder for the conspiracy nuts... :shake:

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:29 PM
Why bring it up if global warming has nothing to do with this particular disaster? It's a signal? No it's not. It's nothing at all like that.
Did you read the linked source article in your own article?

Your article didn't bother to mention that Obama was meeting with North Dakota press and he was asked about ND's objecting to cap and trade because of the carbon industry there. His quote was a response to that question.

He didn't just pull it out of no where.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:34 PM
That has to be one of the scariest quotes I have ever heard out of DC. Talk about fodder for the conspiracy nuts... :shake:

Were you not around on 9/11?

Hydrae
03-26-2009, 01:35 PM
I never read any quotes like that back then. Certainly not that baldly for sure.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:37 PM
Also, "shame on him for giving you the window at all?" **** you with a hot poker. I don't give a flying **** if he pays attention to my city. Clinton didn't do shit in 1997 until the town was actually flooded. If I have to apologize for him using this local disaster for political purposes, then **** that

For the record, I think you are misreading my comment with this. I am not saying that you should be greatful he's paying attention to you state. I'd be pissed too if someone said that to me. I was saying that I blame him for not choosing his words in a way that would prevent someone from distorting his statement.

Every president owes every state and every citizen a fair portion of his attention.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:38 PM
I never read any quotes like that back then. Certainly not that baldly for sure.

Bush's actions speak louder than any words.

SNR
03-26-2009, 01:44 PM
Did you read the linked source article in your own article?

Your article didn't bother to mention that Obama was meeting with North Dakota press and he was asked about ND's objecting to cap and trade because of the carbon industry there. His quote was a response to that question.

He didn't just pull it out of no where.From the Inforum link? No, I didn't look. Inforum owns both the Fargo Forum and the Grand Forks Herald, and I'd much rather trust the Star Tribune than those two sources.

I still don't see what difference that makes. The carbon industry is in the western part of the state, and flooding is happening on the Minnesota border. Now, I know I'm still linking the two to global warming, but comments about how the carbon industry is run and this quote don't explain it, either:

"If you look at the flooding that's going on right now in North Dakota and you say to yourself, 'If you see an increase of 2 degrees, what does that do, in terms of the situation there?' " the president told the reporters. "That indicates the degree to which we have to take this seriously."

SNR
03-26-2009, 01:45 PM
For the record, I think you are misreading my comment with this. I am not saying that you should be greatful he's paying attention to you state. I'd be pissed too if someone said that to me. I was saying that I blame him for not choosing his words in a way that would prevent someone from distorting his statement.

Every president owes every state and every citizen a fair portion of his attention.I blame you for not choosing your words in a way that would prevent me from reading it the way I did :D

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:47 PM
I blame you for not choosing your words in a way that would prevent me from reading it the way I did :D

I agree. ;)

jAZ
03-26-2009, 01:50 PM
From the Inforum link? No, I didn't look. Inforum owns both the Fargo Forum and the Grand Forks Herald, and I'd much rather trust the Star Tribune than those two sources.

I still don't see what difference that makes. The carbon industry is in the western part of the state, and flooding is happening on the Minnesota border. Now, I know I'm still linking the two to global warming, but comments about how the carbon industry is run and this quote don't explain it, either:

"If you look at the flooding that's going on right now in North Dakota and you say to yourself, 'If you see an increase of 2 degrees, what does that do, in terms of the situation there?' " the president told the reporters. "That indicates the degree to which we have to take this seriously."

Well, your prefered source is just rehasing the other source. Only they are leaving out relevant information.

Take away the "blame" and add in the fact that he was responding to a question about ND support for cap and trade and the conversation is completely different.

You might still object, but it's not the same discussion you started.

PastorMikH
03-26-2009, 01:52 PM
Is that big galacier melting again???

Chief Henry
03-26-2009, 01:58 PM
Is that big galacier melting again???

NO, the Missouri river is frozen with two locations being clogged with ice.
It appears they could use some very warm days to melt those ice jams.

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 02:30 PM
For the record, I think you are misreading my comment with this. I am not saying that you should be greatful he's paying attention to you state. I'd be pissed too if someone said that to me. I was saying that I blame him for not choosing his words in a way that would prevent someone from distorting his statement.

Every president owes every state and every citizen a fair portion of his attention.I like Presidents that leave me the fug alone.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 02:34 PM
I like Presidents that leave me the fug alone.

I doubt he calls.

mikey23545
03-26-2009, 02:39 PM
That's a total lie.

He posed the question of the impact of a 2 degree increase in temperatures in an area like the Red River.

He didn't say global warming caused this flooding.

He should have expected people like you would twist his words into a lie like this, though. Shame on him for giving you the window at all.

Shame on you for being such a quote-spinning asshole every time Obama tries to speak without benefit of a teleprompter.

GW could give Obama lessons in elocution.

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 02:44 PM
Is that big galacier melting again???I hate Big Glacier.

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 02:45 PM
I doubt he calls.Good.

Calcountry
03-26-2009, 02:46 PM
Shame on you for being such a quote-spinning asshole every time Obama tries to speak without benefit of a teleprompter aaaaaand, uuuum,

GW could give Obama lessons in elocution.FYP.

He has to wait for the teleprompter to catch up sometimes.

banyon
03-26-2009, 03:29 PM
Shame on you for being such a quote-spinning asshole every time Obama tries to speak without benefit of a teleprompter.

GW could give Obama lessons in elocution.

Lets see thread title says "Obama says ND floods caused by global warming."

Obama actually says "...the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act."

And jAZ is the one doing the spinning?

mlyonsd
03-26-2009, 04:00 PM
If the average temperature was 2 degrees warmer year around there would be less snow fall to accumulate in the first place, and would melt at a more even pace. Hence it would actually help with ND flooding. What a DA.

jAZ
03-26-2009, 04:09 PM
Shame on you for being such a quote-spinning asshole every time Obama tries to speak without benefit of a teleprompter.

GW could give Obama lessons in elocution.

Wow.

Faced with a totally false statement by SNR, none of Obama's critics can bring theselves to admit its false.

How pathetic.

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 04:15 PM
Lets see thread title says "Obama says ND floods caused by global warming."

Obama actually says "...the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act."

And jAZ is the one doing the spinning?

Obama said that? I guess I was right. He is referring to himself in the third person.

SNR
03-26-2009, 07:30 PM
Lets see thread title says "Obama says ND floods caused by global warming."

Obama actually says "...the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act."

And jAZ is the one doing the spinning?Ignore the thread title. WTF does that mean? Signal to act?

You can argue for other signals to act, but this one? He said they're not related. How is it a signal?

banyon
03-26-2009, 07:34 PM
Ignore the thread title. WTF does that mean? Signal to act?

You can argue for other signals to act, but this one? He said they're not related. How is it a signal?

Where did he say that?

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 07:35 PM
Where did he say that?

Are you simultaneously arguing that he didn't say that they are related and that he did?

wild1
03-26-2009, 07:43 PM
at the local University of Liberalism they are telling students that global warming is responsible for everything from floods to the crime rates in depressed areas of town. Supposedly the global warming makes people mentally imbalanced in the hood, and causes them to go out and commit crime.

you have to be working hard for kids to walk out of your classed dumber than when they entered

banyon
03-26-2009, 07:46 PM
Are you simultaneously arguing that he didn't say that they are related and that he did?

No. I'm saying that he didn't claim they were related.

That's different than saying that he claimed they were unrelated. One is an agnostic attitude, the other is an affirmation of knowledge of no possible causal link.

banyon
03-26-2009, 07:47 PM
at the local University of Liberalism they are telling students that global warming is responsible for everything from floods to the crime rates in depressed areas of town. Supposedly the global warming makes people mentally imbalanced in the hood, and causes them to go out and commit crime.

you have to be working hard for kids to walk out of your classed dumber than when they entered

:spock:

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 07:48 PM
No. I'm saying that he didn't claim they were related.

That's different than saying that he claimed they were unrelated. One is an agnostic attitude, the other is an affirmation of knowledge of no possible causal link.

So even though we don't know if there is a correlation, it is still a cause to act?

petegz28
03-26-2009, 07:49 PM
Rush swore up and down today that the floods were caused because of all the snow and such ND got this year and now it is all melting. He should know......

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 07:51 PM
Rush swore up and down today that the floods were caused because of all the snow and such ND got this year and now it is all melting. He should know......

Do you get some sort of sexual gratification from shoe-horning Rush Limbaugh into every thread?

wild1
03-26-2009, 07:52 PM
Rush swore up and down today that the floods were caused because of all the snow and such ND got this year and now it is all melting. He should know......

Who knew that flooding was caused by water runoff?

mikey23545
03-26-2009, 07:53 PM
"Never waste a good crisis."

banyon
03-26-2009, 07:53 PM
So even though we don't know if there is a correlation, it is still a cause to act?

We do know there are correlations. The causation is uncertain.

Yes, prudence and caution, particularly with the potential consequences would be recommended when such correlations are known.

wild1
03-26-2009, 07:53 PM
:spock:

It was some spurious argument about how crime goes up in the summer, ignoring all the obvious reasons why that would be. And also, the winter was harsher than normal this year and no crime was happening.

banyon
03-26-2009, 07:54 PM
It was some spurious argument about how crime goes up in the summer, ignoring all the obvious reasons why that would be.

Who made it?

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 07:55 PM
We do know there are correlations. The causation is uncertain.

Yes, prudence and caution, particularly with the potential consequences would be recommended when such correlations are known.

There's correlation between melting snow in the spring and what?

banyon
03-26-2009, 08:02 PM
There's correlation between melting snow in the spring and what?

I was referring generally to global warming concerns and so was Obama in reply to a cap and trade question.

wild1
03-26-2009, 08:04 PM
Who made it?

it was a local TV report a while ago. i couldn't begin to remember what the whole thing was about. the city was doing some green something or other initiative, and they had a member of the faculty who talked about the supposed effects on human behavior that "aren't well known". i am sure he was just one kook, but i found it funny. they do fluff pieces when a city building changes to the longer lasting light bulbs or whatever else. there's a global warming story or a story with a tie-in seemingly every day.

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 08:05 PM
I was referring generally to global warming concerns and so was Obama in reply to a cap and trade question.

signal to act?

DJJasonp
03-26-2009, 08:05 PM
the river - in the same area - crested at a record high of 40.1 feet.......in 1897.

Wonder if everyone around in 1897 was freaking out about global warming?

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 08:06 PM
the river - in the same area - crested at a record high of 40.1 feet.......in 1897.

Wonder if everyone around in 1897 was freaking out about global warming?

Maybe. What was the earth's temperature in 1897?

wild1
03-26-2009, 08:07 PM
the landscape is definitely changing, remember when Katrina was blamed by a few nuts on global warming, it was laughed off by the sane world. now the president himself is blaming natural disasters on global warming. it makes for a neat boogeyman

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 08:11 PM
the landscape is definitely changing, remember when Katrina was blamed by a few nuts on global warming, it was laughed off by the sane world. now the president himself is blaming natural disasters on global warming. it makes for a neat boogeyman

Has anyone ever seen a photograph of global warming and Rush Limbaugh at the same time? /petegz

banyon
03-26-2009, 08:12 PM
signal to act?

He didn't say that. That was editorializing on the writer's part, AFAICT.

mlyonsd
03-26-2009, 08:19 PM
I live in country where every year farmers have to go out and pick up large rocks left by the ice ages. If you're ever in SD and notice rock piles next to fence lines you'll now know where they come from. In fact rocks pop up in my yard that I have no idea where they came from other than the ice ages.

Moral of the story is we've been warming ever since the ice ages.

Man could destroy themselves by initiating a total out nuclear war.

Guess what, the planet would recover on its own.

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 08:24 PM
He didn't say that. That was editorializing on the writer's part, AFAICT.




Lets see thread title says "Obama says ND floods caused by global warming."

Obama actually says "...the president said the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming, but he said it should be a signal to act."

And jAZ is the one doing the spinning?So Obama said it when it suits your argument. It was editorializing on the writer's part when it doesn't?

Velvet_Jones
03-26-2009, 08:26 PM
That's a total lie.

He posed the question of the impact of a 2 degree increase in temperatures in an area like the Red River.

He didn't say global warming caused this flooding.

He should have expected people like you would twist his words into a lie like this, though. Shame on him for giving you the window at all.

You twisted the Bush admins words around for the last 6-8 years. Shut up and take it. Or are you just a hypocrite?

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 08:28 PM
You twisted the Bush admins words around for the last 6-8 years. Shut up and take it. Or are you just a hypocrite?

That's not entirely accurate. He hasn't stopped.

Velvet_Jones
03-26-2009, 08:38 PM
Rush swore up and down today that the floods were caused because of all the snow and such ND got this year and now it is all melting. He should know......

FYI - This is true. Lake Oahe in central SD and ND was up 10 feet last year(07) and 18 feet this year(08). It had been over 36 feet below normal about 6 years ago. It is all due to the snowfall run off in North and North West Canada.

Velvet_Jones
03-26-2009, 08:48 PM
That's not entirely accurate. He hasn't stopped.

Why would I listen to jAZ on his soothe saying about global warming when he can't even tell me when Rove is going to be indicted?

banyon
03-26-2009, 09:30 PM
So Obama said it when it suits your argument. It was editorializing on the writer's part when it doesn't?

No, one was an accurate paraphrase and the other wasn't. Did you listen to the audio on the site?

He's posing a hypothetical. Obama says "If you look at the flooding thatís going on right now in North Dakota and you say to yourself, ĎIf you see an increase of 2 degrees, what does that do, in terms of the situation there?í that indicates the degree to which we have to take this seriously.Ē

He doesn't say "this flooding' is a signal that we have to act.

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 09:55 PM
"If you look at the flooding thatís going on right now in North Dakota and you say to yourself, ĎIf you see an increase of 2 degrees, what does that do, in terms of the situation there?í that indicates the degree to which we have to take this seriously.Ē

So his point was that, when temperatures rise, snow melts. Gotcha. Let's raise taxes.

banyon
03-26-2009, 10:05 PM
So his point was that, when temperatures rise, snow melts. Gotcha. Let's raise taxes.

I think I found the key term there.

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 10:06 PM
I think I found the key term there.

hey-oh

SNR
03-26-2009, 10:13 PM
No. I'm saying that he didn't claim they were related.

That's different than saying that he claimed they were unrelated. One is an agnostic attitude, the other is an affirmation of knowledge of no possible causal link.
the current flooding cannot necessarily be blamed on global warming,
(That's the part you bolded in your previous post)

That's not claiming no relation? The current flood cannot be blamed on global warming?

Saul Good
03-26-2009, 10:18 PM
(That's the part you bolded in your previous post)

That's not claiming no relation? The current flood cannot be blamed on global warming?

He owned up to his misquote.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-26-2009, 11:04 PM
(That's the part you bolded in your previous post)

That's not claiming no relation? The current flood cannot be blamed on global warming?

That's the punchline, it will come later.

HonestChieffan
03-27-2009, 07:21 AM
If its not caused by global warming, why is this an opportunity to act? Act on what? Global warming?.....

jAZ
03-27-2009, 08:35 AM
That's not claiming no relation? The current flood cannot be blamed on global warming?

That's NOT "Obama says North Dakota floods caused by global warming" and "Obama just saw that this area was having flood problems and chalked it up to global warming".

Those are (at this point, since you refuse to stand corrected) outright lies.

BucEyedPea
03-27-2009, 09:08 AM
New slogan for the Enviromental movement: GangGreen.

***SPRAYER
03-27-2009, 09:16 AM
Obama will part the waters.

Chief Henry
03-27-2009, 02:49 PM
So his point was that, when temperatures rise, snow melts. Gotcha. Let's raise taxes.

Thats the ticket .

Calcountry
03-27-2009, 03:34 PM
You twisted the Bush admins words around for the last 6-8 years. Shut up and take it. Or are you just a hypocrite?He is an Obamanite.

***SPRAYER
03-27-2009, 05:25 PM
Obama is an imbecile.

Chief Henry
03-27-2009, 05:47 PM
If its not caused by global warming, why is this an opportunity to act? Act on what? Global warming?.....

Never let a Crises go by with out taxing the masses !!! It will solve the problem.

Velvet_Jones
03-27-2009, 09:10 PM
Its my understanding that Kansas City is in for 4 to 8 inches of Global Warming by 7PM Tomorrow.

Velvet_Jones
03-27-2009, 09:14 PM
Hey - Banyon - got suggestion - Call the Dodge City Daily Globe and ask them to write a story: "Dodge Receives 10 inches of Global Warming on the news that Al Gore is full of shit."

jAZ
03-28-2009, 12:30 AM
...Kansas City is in for 4 to 8 inches of Global Warming ...
Ok, that's fully shit right there!

ROFL

SBK
03-28-2009, 12:42 AM
Hey - Banyon - got suggestion - Call the Dodge City Daily Globe and ask them to write a story: "Dodge Receives 10 inches of Global Warming on the news that Al Gore is full of shit."

LMAO

banyon
03-28-2009, 10:42 AM
Hey - Banyon - got suggestion - Call the Dodge City Daily Globe and ask them to write a story: "Dodge Receives 10 inches of Global Warming on the news that Al Gore is full of shit."

Yes, a snowstorm for a day conclusive refutes hundred year wather trend data!1!!1!


Thanks for showing us that your opinions on this topic are formed with the same care and diligence that you make a fast food choice at the drive thru window.

KILLER_CLOWN
03-28-2009, 02:16 PM
Where is the Global warming, i'm going to take algores to court for failing to follow through on upwards temperature change. Then i needs someones to programs me some computer models that show that ducks are really humans so i can tax the crap out of the American people for failing to realise this for our 233 existence. My ultimate goal is to pocket some money, cuz it's all about me. Fuzzie Duck? or Duckie Fuzz?

RNR
03-28-2009, 03:02 PM
Yes, a snowstorm for a day conclusive refutes hundred year wather trend data!1!!1!


Thanks for showing us that your opinions on this topic are formed with the same care and diligence that you make a fast food choice at the drive thru window.

Come on banyon you got to admit that was funny :)