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milkman
03-28-2009, 10:15 AM
I was watching a replay of Path to the Draft earlier, and that is how Mike Mayock depicted him in this draft.

He has Curry as his top rated prospect, but that description certainly implies that he's there because he is the lowest risk, and not a game changer.

But I'm sure someone will tell me that I'm misinterpreting his meaning.

doomy3
03-28-2009, 10:20 AM
What is a "solid double?" I've never heard that before.

Oh, is he talking in baseball terms? Then I get it.

milkman
03-28-2009, 10:23 AM
What is a "solid double?" I've never heard that before.

Oh, is he talking in baseball terms? Then I get it.

Uh......duh..........

bdeg
03-28-2009, 10:33 AM
I believe I've heard him or someone say that Pioli & co would rather hit 10 "solid doubles"" than 5 HRs and 5 Ks

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:35 AM
Some of those body doubles are fucking hot.

Curry, not so much, which is another reason he's not a solid fit at #3.

The Bad Guy
03-28-2009, 10:35 AM
In a draft where there are a few singles, a couple of walks, and a lot of K's, I'll take the doubles.

I just don't see where all this top talent is that makes Curry such an awful pick.

milkman
03-28-2009, 10:39 AM
In a draft where there are a few singles, a couple of walks, and a lot of K's, I'll take the doubles.

I just don't see where all this top talent is that makes Curry such an awful pick.

He's not going to be an awful pick.

It's just that we have people here saying that he is a game changing type player, and they try to support that argument by citing the fact that Mayock has him rated at the top of his board.

Mayock calling him a solid double doesn't support any argument that he's a game changer.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-28-2009, 10:41 AM
You don't give solid doubles 60 million.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:47 AM
It would be a much more sharply hit double if we were staying in the 4-3.

The Bad Guy
03-28-2009, 10:49 AM
You don't give solid doubles 60 million.

Besides Stafford or Sanchez, who both obviously won't be picked by the Chiefs, who do you take?

I don't see one homerun in this entire draft.

Trading down would be fine, but I don't see a ton of teams banging down the door to pay a top price, along with draft picks for the talent at the top of this draft.

The Bad Guy
03-28-2009, 10:50 AM
He's not going to be an awful pick.

It's just that we have people here saying that he is a game changing type player, and they try to support that argument by citing the fact that Mayock has him rated at the top of his board.

Mayock calling him a solid double doesn't support any argument that he's a game changer.

I don't think there are any game-changers in this draft.

I think there are a few solid doubles.

This is about the worst year I can ever remember to have a top 5 pick.

milkman
03-28-2009, 10:51 AM
I don't think there are any game-changers in this draft.

I think there are a few solid doubles.

This is about the worst year I can ever remember to have a top 5 pick.

No question.

The trade for Cassel made it an even worse draft for this team.

Cosmos
03-28-2009, 11:16 AM
And Charlie Cesserly calls Curry the best talent in the draft.

It's a position of need for KC.

That being said, Pioli has got to be trying to trade out and pick up additional pick(s).

He may only be able to pick up an extra 3rd, so... would an extra 3rd be enough to move down 2-5 picks?

Cosmos
03-28-2009, 11:18 AM
No question.

The trade for Cassel made it an even worse draft for this team.

Only if you don't feel Cassel is your starting quarterback.

Starting QB >>>>>2nd round pick.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 11:19 AM
He may only be able to pick up an extra 3rd, so... would an extra 3rd be enough to move down 2-5 picks?

If Pioli would take only a third to move down as much as 5 spots, there would need to be an independent investigation to ascertain whether he spit or swallowed.

We might not get chart value, but what you're suggesting is beyond reasonable.

milkman
03-28-2009, 11:21 AM
And Charlie Cesserly calls Curry the best talent in the draft.

It's a position of need for KC.

That being said, Pioli has got to be trying to trade out and pick up additional pick(s).

He may only be able to pick up an extra 3rd, so... would an extra 3rd be enough to move down 2-5 picks?

In many cases, the most talented player isn't the best player.

I've used Derrick Brooks/Derrick Thomas as an illustration of this fact.

Brooks might be the single most talented LB in the NFL over the last 20 years, but DT was the better player, because he did more to influence momentum in games.

DB was a great player.
DT was a game changer.

milkman
03-28-2009, 11:23 AM
Only if you don't feel Cassel is your starting quarterback.

Starting QB >>>>>2nd round pick.

There's no question that Cassel is going to be our starter.

I believe, however, that both Stafford and Sanchez are going to develop into better QBs.

Mr. Krab
03-28-2009, 11:26 AM
Another "if i can't have a QB at #3 then i don't want anybody" temper tantrum thread?

Fish
03-28-2009, 11:27 AM
Outside of Stafford and Smith, both of whom play positions we've recently addressed, I don't see anybody else better than a "double". Arguably there are other guys rated as a double as high as Curry. But it may be that a double will be the best we can get if we have to stay at #3.

milkman
03-28-2009, 11:30 AM
Another "if i can't have a QB at #3 then i don't want anybody" temper tantrum thread?

Did I say anything about a fucking QB in this thread, dumbass?

DaneMcCloud
03-28-2009, 11:32 AM
It's a position of need for KC.


Outside of left tackle, what position isn't "of need" for the Chiefs?

milkman
03-28-2009, 11:35 AM
Did I say anything about a ****ing QB in this thread, dumbass?

And before you answer this, I am talking specifically about the the opening post, not about specific responses to posts.

htismaqe
03-28-2009, 11:38 AM
Another "if i can't have a QB at #3 then i don't want anybody" temper tantrum thread?

Another "I want Curry and the people that want a QB are idiots" tantrum?

htismaqe
03-28-2009, 11:39 AM
In a draft where there are a few singles, a couple of walks, and a lot of K's, I'll take the doubles.

I just don't see where all this top talent is that makes Curry such an awful pick.

I don't think anybody has said he's an AWFUL pick.

'Hamas' Jenkins
03-28-2009, 11:47 AM
I don't think anybody has said he's an AWFUL pick.

It doesn't matter if it was said, that's the narrative that is created and passed off as "truf' "

Mr. Krab
03-28-2009, 11:56 AM
Another "I want Curry and the people that want a QB are idiots" tantrum?
Nice try, but i never said that i was set on Curry. I see many of you crying and complaining about every possible pick the Chiefs could take at #3. The reality is that many of them are just pouting because they wanted a QB and can't have it. So they bitch and moan everyday in frustration.

Mr. Krab
03-28-2009, 12:00 PM
Did I say anything about a fucking QB in this thread, dumbass?
No dickhead, you didn't. It's pretty obvious that your mangina is still so sore about not getting Sanchez or Stafford that your gonna cry and stomp your feet like a little bitch because your not gonna get want you want.

milkman
03-28-2009, 12:08 PM
No dickhead, you didn't. It's pretty obvious that your mangina is still so sore about not getting Sanchez or Stafford that your gonna cry and stomp your feet like a little bitch because your not gonna get want you want.

No dumbass.

This is strictly about Curry.

I have accepted the fact that Cassel is our starter at QB and won't be drafting a QB.

I simply don't want to waste a pick on Curry.

I'd rather reach for Raji.
I think he will play a larger role in improving the defense than Curry ever will.

Curry plays what I call a periphery position.

Mr. Krab
03-28-2009, 12:14 PM
No dumbass.

This is strictly about Curry.

I have accepted the fact that Cassel is our starter at QB and won't be drafting a QB.

I simply don't want to waste a pick on Curry.

I'd rather reach for Raji.
I think he will play a larger role in improving the defense than Curry ever will.

Curry plays what I call a periphery position.
Since Raji can play the NT in the 3-4 or the DT in the 4-3, he might very well be a good selection for the Chiefs. Hopefully they can manage a trade down before they take him.

milkman
03-28-2009, 12:19 PM
Since Raji can play the NT in the 3-4 or the DT in the 4-3, he might very well be a good selection for the Chiefs. Hopefully they can manage a trade down before they take him.

I'd really like a tradedown scenario with Raji in the first and Wood in the second.

Mr. Krab
03-28-2009, 12:36 PM
I'd really like a tradedown scenario with Raji in the first and Wood in the second.
A trade down for Brown and then get a guy like Jarron Gilbert in the 2nd would be nice too.

philfree
03-28-2009, 12:40 PM
In many cases, the most talented player isn't the best player.

I've used Derrick Brooks/Derrick Thomas as an illustration of this fact.

Brooks might be the single most talented LB in the NFL over the last 20 years, but DT was the better player, because he did more to influence momentum in games.

DB was a great player.
DT was a game changer.

I'd rather have DT but to say Brooks isn't a game changer isn't accurate at all. The guy had 24 FF and 25 INTs in his career. I guess none of those plays changed any games.


PhilFree:arrow:

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 12:55 PM
I'd rather have DT but to say Brooks isn't a game changer isn't accurate at all. The guy had 24 FF and 25 INTs in his career. I guess none of those plays changed any games.


PhilFree:arrow:

He played in 224 games over the course of his career.

Chiefnj2
03-28-2009, 12:58 PM
There is a Brooks in this years draft. There is no DT in this years draft.

RustShack
03-28-2009, 01:01 PM
There is a Brooks in this years draft. There is no DT in this years draft.

Everette Brown mother fucker!

RustShack
03-28-2009, 01:03 PM
I'd rather have DT but to say Brooks isn't a game changer isn't accurate at all. The guy had 24 FF and 25 INTs in his career. I guess none of those plays changed any games.


PhilFree:arrow:

Does that average out to around 2 fumbles and 2 interceptions a year? OK he had a impact in a few games a year... happy? Don't get me wrong, hes a great player... just not worth a #3 pick.

ChiefsCountry
03-28-2009, 01:28 PM
Curry better be a Bobby Bell clone if we take him that high.

philfree
03-28-2009, 02:40 PM
Does that average out to around 2 fumbles and 2 interceptions a year? OK he had a impact in a few games a year... happy? Don't get me wrong, hes a great player... just not worth a #3 pick.

I was happy before but the arguments against Curry aren't very good ones. And the comparisons of Curry to Brooks aren't even close.


PhilFree:arrow:

Tribal Warfare
03-28-2009, 02:47 PM
I was happy before but the arguments against Curry aren't very good ones.
PhilFree:arrow:

Really, what prowess has he displayed as a pass rusher in his career?

Chiefnj2
03-28-2009, 02:49 PM
Curry better be a Bobby Bell clone if we take him that high.

And Sanchez better be Tom Brady and Stafford better be Peyton Manning and Everette Brown better be Derrick Thomas ...

DaneMcCloud
03-28-2009, 02:51 PM
Everette Brown mother fucker!

:Lin:

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 02:56 PM
I was happy before but the arguments against Curry aren't very good ones. And the comparisons of Curry to Brooks aren't even close.


PhilFree:arrow:

You don't agree with comparing Curry to Brooks or DJ (as a prospect).

That said, whom do you compare him to? What prospect is most similar? What do you envision Curry becoming at the next level? Who is the most similar player to his upside?

Count Alex's Losses
03-28-2009, 03:16 PM
The Chiefs need to take a quarterback, hold him for ransom, and then take someone like Raji or Curry in the 10-15 range.

If there's a team out there that wants a god damn quarterback, they can god damn well pay a premium for him.

Cosmos
03-28-2009, 03:29 PM
#1.. I'm convinced that Pioli will try and trade out, maybe more than once.
#2.. There's a good chance that #3 is has more value in "points than talent.
#3.. Pioli may have to settle for less points to gain picks and flexability.
#4.. We're not going to draft a QB.

Cosmos
03-28-2009, 03:31 PM
The Chiefs need to take a quarterback, hold him for ransom, and then take someone like Raji or Curry in the 10-15 range.

If there's a team out there that wants a god damn quarterback, they can god damn well pay a premium for him.

They won't take a QB, they may trade the pick to a team that will pick a QB, but you don't paint yourself in a corner like you suggest.

Mecca
03-28-2009, 03:42 PM
Why do threads always revert back into "you don't like Curry cause you wanted a QB". Curry is just not playing a position I'd drop that kind of money into, he plays a complimentary position he can essentially be made to look useless without other players.

Hell I'd rather trade down significantly and take Heyward-Bey before I took Curry 3.

doomy3
03-28-2009, 03:54 PM
Why do threads always revert back into "you don't like Curry cause you wanted a QB". Curry is just not playing a position I'd drop that kind of money into, he plays a complimentary position he can essentially be made to look useless without other players.

Hell I'd rather trade down significantly and take Heyward-Bey before I took Curry 3.

But if we can't trade down, who do you want at three?

milkman
03-28-2009, 03:57 PM
I'd rather have DT but to say Brooks isn't a game changer isn't accurate at all. The guy had 24 FF and 25 INTs in his career. I guess none of those plays changed any games.


PhilFree:arrow:

Yeah, he made some plays, you can't honestly say that his impact came close to what DT had on the game.

And as I have said before, interceptions are rarely the result of any great effort by the interceptor.

They are, however, many times the result of a QB making bad passes as the result of pressure.

Mecca
03-28-2009, 04:00 PM
But if we can't trade down, who do you want at three?

Aslong as one of the QB's is left we'll be fine, people seem to think Seattle may be going that way now so that could really tempt a team to move in front of them.

milkman
03-28-2009, 04:01 PM
I was happy before but the arguments against Curry aren't very good ones. And the comparisons of Curry to Brooks aren't even close.


PhilFree:arrow:

You are right.

He's more Harry Carson than Brooks.

I only used Brooks because you could make the argument that Brooks is the best overall LB in the NFL in the last 20 years.

It doesn't matter, either way.

Brooks will join Carson in the HoF in a few years, and neither are players that I'd take with the 3rd overall pick.

milkman
03-28-2009, 04:02 PM
They won't take a QB, they may trade the pick to a team that will pick a QB, but you don't paint yourself in a corner like you suggest.

The Chargers did with Eli Manning.

That worked out pretty good for them.

doomy3
03-28-2009, 04:04 PM
Aslong as one of the QB's is left we'll be fine, people seem to think Seattle may be going that way now so that could really tempt a team to move in front of them.

Right, but if we can't get someone to trade up and they call our or Seattle's bluff, who do you take at 3?

philfree
03-28-2009, 04:07 PM
You don't agree with comparing Curry to Brooks or DJ (as a prospect).

That said, whom do you compare him to? What prospect is most similar? What do you envision Curry becoming at the next level? Who is the most similar player to his upside?


Well just like there will never be another DT there will never be another Ray Lewis. His physical block shedding play reminds me of Ray Lewis although I think he's bigger then Lewis.


PhilFree:arrow:

Fruit Ninja
03-28-2009, 04:26 PM
You don't give solid doubles 60 million.

So who do they give it too? there isnt many, i rephrase, there isnt 1 player in this draft that is worth 60 million. BJ Raji? Its not going to be Stafford thats for sure. They arent going to pay 2 QB's insane money.

We may have to pick someone that isnt worthy of the draft spot. Though, thats playing captain obvious.

I dont know who they are going to pick.

Tribal Warfare
03-28-2009, 04:30 PM
there will never be another Ray Lewis.

PhilFree:arrow:



Yeah, a better faster version of Ray Lewis is Patrick Willis

milkman
03-28-2009, 04:32 PM
Well just like there will never be another DT there will never be another Ray Lewis. His physical block shedding play reminds me of Ray Lewis although I think he's bigger then Lewis.


PhilFree:arrow:

The thing that separates Ray Lewis from other LBs is intensity.
I don't see that intensity in Curry.
He needs to bring that kind of intensity with him to be the kind of leader and difference maker that Lewis is.

milkman
03-28-2009, 04:33 PM
Yeah, a better faster version of Ray Lewis is Patrick Willis

Willis is an outstanding LB, but he doesn't come close to matching Lewis impact on games.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 04:38 PM
Willis is an outstanding LB, but he doesn't come close to matching Lewis impact on games.

I agree with this, and I'm a huge fan of Willis.

Tribal Warfare
03-28-2009, 04:39 PM
Willis is an outstanding LB, but he doesn't come close to matching Lewis impact on games.

Ray Lewis has always been on very talented defensive teams in general so he isn't asked to do as much as Willis is assigned to.

bowener
03-28-2009, 04:40 PM
Right, but if we can't get someone to trade up and they call our or Seattle's bluff, who do you take at 3?

If that occurs, then you remove the bluff, and draft the best QB at #3, which would in turn, probably force a team to panic, especially if Seattle went for a QB at #4. Then you have all the cards.

We would instantly get phone calls for trades if that were to occur. In the worst case scenario we pay a lot (that we can afford) to a QB who gets to sit for a year or 2 and learn, while MC starts (and I guess if MC refuses to play for us after the draft, then we ship him off for a first round pick for next year). Then we can do what the Chargers did and let the Vet walk when the young guy is ready to play.

Best case scenario, we completely rob a team of picks. We trade the QB to them for their pick (if they are in the top 10), then try and pry their 2nd away, and hopefully take a 1st or 2nd from them next year as well. I would love it if we could do that, taking a D player like Brown (becoming our Merriman/Ware) or Raji, then taking the best player in the 2nd (preferably a NT or LB -- whichever one we didnt take in the first).


What would be interesting to me is if we took Stafford at #3, Seattle took Curry, and we convinced a top 10 team to take Stafford off our hands for their picks in the 1st and 2nd, and then we turned around and took Sanchez. I think it would be pretty hard to do, but if teams aren't sold on Sanchez as a top 10 value, then it could be done. Then we get the future QBOTF and a 2nd round pick (plus more possibly).

bowener
03-28-2009, 04:43 PM
Willis is an outstanding LB, but he doesn't come close to matching Lewis impact on games.

I think if you gave Willis a front 3 like the Ravens, and the supporting cast (and coaches) I believe that Willis would be as good, and quite possibly better than Ray Lewis. Ray Ray was never as fast, and Willis is a nasty guy (just doesnt have that title like Ray since he never had the opportunity to be involved with a murder).

I would love to have either in their prime for sure.

milkman
03-28-2009, 04:47 PM
Ray Lewis has always been on very talented defensive teams in general so he isn't asked to do as much as Willis is assigned to.

We aren't in any disagreement here.
Willis is a helluva LB.

But the Ravens D reflects Lewis personality.
Intensity, tenaciousness, desire.

That defense is Ray Lewis.

bowener
03-28-2009, 04:59 PM
We aren't in any disagreement here.
Willis is a helluva LB.

But the Ravens D reflects Lewis personality.
Intensity, tenaciousness, desire.

That defense is Ray Lewis.

Good point. I would like to see Willis play on the Ravens D for a season along side Lewis. That would be interesting.

KCrockaholic
03-28-2009, 08:19 PM
Right, but if we can't get someone to trade up and they call our or Seattle's bluff, who do you take at 3?

havent you learned? He doesnt give straight answers. That way if he is wrong he can always have a back-up story :)

bdeg
03-28-2009, 09:09 PM
Maybe Everette Brown is a solid triple....

Tribal Warfare
03-28-2009, 10:44 PM
Maybe Everette Brown is a solid triple....

Or Connor Barwin is a homebase steal.

melbar
03-28-2009, 10:53 PM
If I'm not mistaken he said that he is "at least" a solid double and he'd rather have a solid double than a whiff. To be more than a double he'd have to be a great pass rusher and you just dont know that yet, but everything else is solid.

bdeg
03-29-2009, 08:52 AM
Or Connor Barwin is a homebase steal.

I'm going to be ecstatic on draft day if we get either one of these guys.

doomy3
03-29-2009, 11:33 AM
Right, but if we can't get someone to trade up and they call our or Seattle's bluff, who do you take at 3?

Mecca, who's your pick at three if we can't trade down?

RustShack
03-29-2009, 01:31 PM
Mecca, who's your pick at three if we can't trade down?

Last I knew it was Raji.

Mr. Krab
03-29-2009, 08:03 PM
Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry (http://origin-prod.www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aaron-curry?id=79842) might not be available when the Kansas City Chiefs pick third overall in next month’s NFL draft, but they’re doing their due diligence in case he falls to them.


<script>new nfl.widgets.VideoPlayer({ contentId: "09000d5d80f68fb7", related: "home", adSetting: "1", playerName: "blog_embedded", size: "inline", uniqid: "09000d5d80f68fb7"})</script><embed type="application/x-shockwave-flash" src="http://static.nfl.com/static/site/flash/video/inline-video-player.swf" style="" id="v09000d5d80f68fb7swf" name="v09000d5d80f68fb7swf" bgcolor="#000000" quality="true" allowscriptaccess="always" wmode="opaque" flashvars="uniqid=v09000d5d80f68fb7swf&contentId=09000d5d80f68fb7&related=home&playerName=blog_embedded&adSetting=1" width="384" height="217">[/URL]

Curry has a private workout scheduled with the Chiefs on April 2-3, then an interview with them on April 14-15. The double-dipping comes after Kansas City scouted Curry at the combine in February and his [URL="http://blogs.nfl.com/2009/03/26/lb-curry-s-smith-among-top-prospects-at-wake-forest-pro-day/"]pro day at Wake Forest earlier this week (http://static.nfl.com/static/site/flash/video/inline-video-player.swf).

As of now, Curry has met with or has workouts/interviews set up with teams that hold the top six picks.

Curry already has met with the Detroit Lions, who hold the first overall selection in the April 25-26 draft. The Cleveland Browns, who have the No. 5 pick, are staging a private workout with Curry on Saturday in Winston-Salem, where Wake Forest is located. Curry will meet with the Cincinnati Bengals (No. 6 pick) on Monday and Tuesday and the St. Louis Rams (No. 2 pick) on April 15-16.

Curry’s Wake Forest teammate, CB Alphonso Smith (http://origin-prod.www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/alphonso-smith?id=80435), has scheduled visits with the Oakland Raiders, New Orleans Saints, Atlanta Falcons, Denver Broncos, Minnesota Vikings, Tennessee Titans, Pittsburgh Steelers and New England Patriots. Smith, who had an Atlantic Coast Conference career-record 21 interceptions at Wake Forest, is projected to be a late first-round, early second-round selection.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 09:24 AM
Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry (http://origin-prod.www.nfl.com/combine/profiles/aaron-curry?id=79842) might not be available when the Kansas City Chiefs pick third overall in next month’s NFL draft, but they’re doing their due diligence in case he falls to them.

It won't hurt my feelings if he's off the board. Then we're not tempted.

Tribal Warfare
03-30-2009, 09:31 AM
It won't hurt my feelings if he's off the board. Then we're not tempted.

If KC gets a trade partner then this Curry talk is a non-issue.

keg in kc
03-30-2009, 09:50 AM
Anybody who's watched the Royals play for the last decade knows that a bunch of solid doubles don't win a whole lot of games. Takes at least a few home runs and an ace or two in the rotation.

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 10:27 AM
When i've seen Curry play he's looked like a good player. Is being just "good" enough to be taken at #3? I also know that if Curry can learn to rush the passer he'll jump from good to great and become the best LB we've had since DT. They didn't ask him to rush the passer in college but can he in the pros, he has the athleticism.

Chiefnj2
03-30-2009, 11:09 AM
People complain about Curry and Crabtree. Who are all these home run hitters available at #3?

RustShack
03-30-2009, 11:13 AM
People complain about Curry and Crabtree. Who are all these home run hitters available at #3?

I think its been stated a million times that there isn't one, thats why trading down is the best option.

Tribal Warfare
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I also know that if Curry can learn to rush the passer he'll jump from good to great and become the best LB we've had since DT.

You did not just say that

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 11:15 AM
You did not just say that
Yes, i did. You want me to say it again?

Tribal Warfare
03-30-2009, 11:24 AM
Yes, i did. You want me to say it again?

By all means, make yourself sound like a complete idiot if you want.

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 11:25 AM
By all means, make yourself sound like a complete idiot if you want.KC hasn't exactly been a linebacker hot spot since DT. Dunno what your talking about.

Tribal Warfare
03-30-2009, 11:29 AM
KC hasn't exactly been a linebacker hot spot since DT. Dunno what your talking about.

Your comparing Aaron Curry a Coverage LB with hardly no pass rushing experience who hasn't played a down in the NFL to one of the most prolific passrushers of all-time.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 11:30 AM
People complain about Curry and Crabtree. Who are all these home run hitters available at #3?

I fully understand that Curry is the "safe" pick but in no way shape or form would I agree that Crabtree is "safe".

Crabtree is probably the biggest question mark out of the projected top 10.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 11:34 AM
Your comparing Aaron Curry a Coverage LB with hardly no pass rushing experience who hasn't played a down in the NFL to one of the most prolific passrushers of all-time.

See, here's where you're wrong, Bro.

Aaron Curry is Derrick Thomas, Ray Lewis and Dick Butkus all wrapped into one little safe package.

Regardless that he has only a few sacks during his four years at college, he's a Hall of Famer already. Regardless of the fact that he's a cover linebacker. He'll cover his man AND sack the QB on nearly every passing down.

His bust has been made and the NFL has already secured a spot in Canton for him.

Get on board!

Saccopoo
03-30-2009, 11:34 AM
I think its been stated a million times that there isn't one, thats why trading down is the best option.

And that's why trading down is going to be virtually impossible in this draft. No one is going to move up, giving up picks in the process, to get into the top five when it costs far too much money to do so for someone who isn't, at this time, considered a potential home run hitter.

The Chiefs are going to be very fortunate in this draft if the Lions get a deal worked out quite early with their guy, and that guy is Smith or Stafford or Sanchez or Monroe (particularly if it's one of the offensive linemen that sign for a lot less than a quarterback would), and Curry is on the board at the three spot when the Chiefs pick. At that point, the Chiefs get the best player in the draft and address the biggest position of need at this point. No one knows how any of these players will turn out, but the general consensus is that Curry is the one guy in this draft that will end up playing and playing well for the next ten years in the league. The Chiefs need that type of player. An immediate contributor. I'll take a bigger/better version of AJ Hawk or Pat Willis at this years three spot all day long. If you want to take a flyer on a potential home run hitter, this isn't the draft to do it in - at least in the first couple of rounds. Solid, but unspectactular draft where a team will be able to get several very good players in the first three rounds.

The potential for the home runner hitter is going to be there next year with a pass rusher like George Selvie. There just isn't that type of guy in this years draft, other than Orakpo, followed by Clint Sintim and Everette Brown. And I'd rather take Curry before any of those three.

If the Chiefs end up with Curry as their first round pick, Matt Cassell and Mike Vrabel as their second, and a guy like Kraig Urbik in the third, I'd consider this a very, very successful draft.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 11:35 AM
And that's why trading down is going to be virtually impossible in this draft. No one is going to move up, giving up picks in the process, to get into the top five when it costs far too much money to do so for someone who isn't, at this time, considered a potential home run hitter.

You're wrong.

Teams always get hot and heavy for guys and want to move up.

Will the trade necessarily meet the value chart?

I doubt it. But trade down scenarios will exist.

ChiefsCountry
03-30-2009, 11:37 AM
If the Chiefs end up with Curry as their first round pick, Matt Cassell and Mike Vrabel as their second, and a guy like Kraig Urbik in the third, I'd consider this a very, very successful draft.

Urbik would be the only good thing out of that whole draft. Thats not a build a dyntasy draft its try to get a wild card spot draft.

Chiefnj2
03-30-2009, 11:38 AM
I think its been stated a million times that there isn't one, thats why trading down is the best option.

It's also been said a million times that trading down may not be possible. Are you going to let the clock expire without making a pick?

RustShack
03-30-2009, 11:39 AM
See, here's where you're wrong, Bro.

Aaron Curry is Derrick Thomas, Ray Lewis and Dick Butkus all wrapped into one little safe package.

Regardless that he has only a few sacks during his four years at college, he's a Hall of Famer already. Regardless of the fact that he's a cover linebacker. He'll cover his man AND sack the QB on nearly every passing down.

His bust has been made and the NFL has already secured a spot in Canton for him.

Get on board!

Curry isn't really a lock down coverage guy either... Especially in the NFL. He has the straight ahead speed but he isn't very agile.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 11:39 AM
Urbik would be the only good thing out of that whole draft. Thats not a build a dyntasy draft its try to get a wild card spot draft.

Kings of the AFC West, Baby!

RustShack
03-30-2009, 11:40 AM
It's also been said a million times that trading down may not be possible. Are you going to let the clock expire without making a pick?

Umm no you reach for a player... also trading down is possible, getting fair value isn't. This is a rare year where you can say this, but trading down and not getting full value might be better than reaching and paying.

philfree
03-30-2009, 11:46 AM
Urbik would be the only good thing out of that whole draft. Thats not a build a dyntasy draft its try to get a wild card spot draft.

Unless Pioli and Haley think Cassel can be a franchise QB. And drafting Curry is a long tern move not a short term move. Reaching for need a drafting a player like Brown would be more of a win now move IMO. I do like Urbik with that pick though.


PhilFree:arrow:

Saccopoo
03-30-2009, 11:54 AM
You're wrong.

Teams always get hot and heavy for guys and want to move up.

Will the trade necessarily meet the value chart?

I doubt it. But trade down scenarios will exist.

I'm not saying that there won't be trade possibilities, but this year it seems that there is a lot less likelihood of that happening. Dallas already pissed away their draft for Roy Williams, and Detroit has the #1 and #20 picks. The Eagles have two first rounders, but they now need players just as bad as everyone else it seems, and they will most likely have a decent selection of offensive linemen available when they pick. I just don't see a Ryan Sims type player in this draft - one that everyone wants to move up to get. Perhaps it's that there are a lot of tackles in this draft that look about the same, the two quarterbacks (maybe even three with Freeman thrown in) are perceived about the same, the receivers aren't blowing anyone away, and there is no true defensive standout in the draft other than Curry, and he is a strong side linebacker rather than a pass rusher - at least at this point, and I truly doubt that one would waste his coverage and open field block shedding skills by putting him at the weak side rush backer spot. He'd be much better as the open Mike in a 3-4 - a Derrick Brooks, Ray Lewis type of guy.

Unless the Chiefs get a pretty good offer, it's going to be hard to pass up Aaron Curry I would imagine, especially considering that linebacker was their worst postition last season by a considerable margin and he's generally considered the best player in the draft this year. We already "drafted" two quality players with our second round pick. Getting the best player in the draft, and then filling the holes with the 3 through 7 picks seems like a pretty good deal at this point, although I wouldn't mind the Chiefs trading down and getting a lot of picks in the process. I just don't see that as a viable scenario in this years draft. Not saying it couldn't happen though. We'll just have to wait and see.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 11:59 AM
Unless the Chiefs get a pretty good offer, it's going to be hard to pass up Aaron Curry I would imagine

The Chiefs have question marks and holes at nearly every position on their roster. If a trade can be made to pick up additional picks, regardless of the value chart, the Chiefs must make that trade.

They cannot send Cassel (or whomever) out their behind Niswanger, Goff & Sackintosh. And who knows if Waters will even be around.

The Chiefs need to move back, pick up at least an additional second rounder this year (and probably a 5th and something more) and begin to shore up their weaknesses.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 12:17 PM
It's also been said a million times that trading down may not be possible. Are you going to let the clock expire without making a pick?

You know, I just might.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 12:17 PM
Will the trade necessarily meet the value chart?

I doubt it. But trade down scenarios will exist.

This.

Chiefnj2
03-30-2009, 12:34 PM
You know, I just might.

Welcome to a lengthy holdout. They may end up paying the draft choice #3 money anyway.

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 12:39 PM
Your comparing Aaron Curry a Coverage LB with hardly no pass rushing experience who hasn't played a down in the NFL to one of the most prolific passrushers of all-time.
Well, first off Curry isn't just a coverage LB. Secondly, i never compared Curry to Derrick Thomas. I said Curry could be our best linebacker since DT.

RustShack
03-30-2009, 01:01 PM
Well, first off Curry isn't just a coverage LB. Secondly, i never compared Curry to Derrick Thomas. I said Curry could be our best linebacker since DT.

So what kind of LB is he? He sure isn't a pass rushing LB.

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 01:05 PM
So what kind of LB is he? He sure isn't a pass rushing LB.A pretty complete linebacker who might be able to become a pass rusher.

He moves well in space, he can drop into coverage, can take on blockers. He is fast and physical with good instincts. They just didn't use him as a pass rusher in college but he does have the athletic ability to do it

Micjones
03-30-2009, 01:24 PM
In many cases, the most talented player isn't the best player.

I've used Derrick Brooks/Derrick Thomas as an illustration of this fact.

Brooks might be the single most talented LB in the NFL over the last 20 years, but DT was the better player, because he did more to influence momentum in games.

DB was a great player.
DT was a game changer.

If Curry can be Derrick Brooks for 10 years... I'll take him.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 02:11 PM
If Curry can be Derrick Brooks for 10 years... I'll take him.

Unfortunately I don't think he'll be that...he isn't that type of player.

Brock
03-30-2009, 02:13 PM
I think if he could rush the passer he would have been doing that.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 02:20 PM
I think if he could rush the passer he would have been doing that.

I think it's funny that Jim Schwartz says he's a sidelines to sidelines MLB, but the talking heads say he can do anything.

I know who's opinion I'd trust.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 02:22 PM
I think it's funny that Jim Schwartz says he's a sidelines to sidelines MLB, but the talking heads say he can do anything.

I know who's opinion I'd trust.

Every year there is a guy that alot of fans don't know all that much about that gets really hyped up by all the draft guys on TV, this year that guy is Curry.

ChiefsCountry
03-30-2009, 02:37 PM
You got to think Schwartz sees another Keith Bulluck in Curry.

Chiefnj2
03-30-2009, 03:03 PM
The whining on draft day will be remembered for years, and repeated daily.

keg in kc
03-30-2009, 03:07 PM
The whining on draft day will be remembered for years, and repeated daily.Regardless of who we pick.

Just like every other year.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 03:31 PM
Regardless of who we pick.

Just like every other year.

One of the players everyone liked has sucked ass so maybe it's for the best.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 03:54 PM
Regardless of who we pick.

Just like every other year.

Yeah, but you have to admit that the whining has been extremely valid, especially during the Vermeil years.

2008 was the first year where I had no problems with any of the selections (though I'm still bummed they couldn't grab Carl Nicks).

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 04:35 PM
Why do so many of you view Curry's position as worthless? and can you prove it?

Mecca
03-30-2009, 04:55 PM
Why do so many of you view Curry's position as worthless? and can you prove it?

As far as overall positional value on defense and overall team the traditional LB doesn't come in all that high..

Hell several teams openly devalue it like the Eagles.

Having the best LB's in the game won't get you much without anything else, having say the best Dline will completely mask everything else.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:04 PM
Again, nobody says his position is "worthless".

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:09 PM
As far as overall positional value on defense and overall team the traditional LB doesn't come in all that high..

Hell several teams openly devalue it like the Eagles.

Having the best LB's in the game won't get you much without anything else, having say the best Dline will completely mask everything else.

what proof do you have?

Last year 2 of these LBs were taken top 10. Curry is better than those players. And this draft is worse. It is very reasonable to think that Curry and his position has top 5 value in this weak draft based on those historical picks.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:13 PM
Again, nobody says his position is "worthless".

again.... I keep hearing over and over that Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs top pick and nobody really gives any proof other than he sucks.

that's why I enjoy CP, to actually here someone make a valid argument on something. I have not heard a valid argument with supporting evidence for why Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs pick.

Most draft "experts" believe that he is worth it. Please somebody, make a valid intellectual argument for why he is not worth it. I'm tired of hearing the same old crap that just assumes that he is not worth it bc he hasn't rushed the passer. Quit making assumptions and make a point.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:14 PM
Sorry I don't think Curry is a better prospect than Rivers was so you won't sell that crap to me.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:15 PM
again.... I keep hearing over and over that Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs top pick and nobody really gives any proof other than he sucks.

that's why I enjoy CP, to actually here someone make a valid argument on something. I have not heard a valid argument with supporting evidence for why Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs pick.

Most draft "experts" believe that he is worth it. Please somebody, make a valid intellectual argument for why he is not worth it. I'm tired of hearing the same old crap that just assumes that he is not worth it bc he hasn't rushed the passer. Quit making assumptions and make a point.

Arguing a LB is worth a top 5 pick is like arguing a RB is worth one, some people may think it's ok but I never will.

There are far to many productive middle round drafted LB's for me to ever think it's a good idea to drop a super high pick on one much like RB.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:17 PM
I think Adrian Peterson was a pretty good pick. And he would have been top 5 if not for the injury concern.

History has shown it depends more on the player. And the other players available in the draft at the time.

bdeg
03-30-2009, 05:17 PM
what proof do you have?

Last year 2 of these LBs were taken top 10. Curry is better than those players. And this draft is worse. It is very reasonable to think that Curry and his position has top 5 value in this weak draft based on those historical picks.

I'll repeat myself from the last thread we had this discussion

Mayo won DROY and I've heard analysts say he's going to be a 10 yr probowler, so if NFL teams did their scouting they should've expected him to be a great ILB. But five defensive players went above him in that draft, all pass rushers. Some look like busts. Because in the NFL, a pass rusher is THAT much more important. And we have none.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:18 PM
you are correct in saying that highly rated pass rusher is worth more than highly rated ILB, but there isn't a consensus highly rated pass rusher in this draft. They all have question marks.

ILB has been shown to have top 10 value. In a weak draft, where Curry is by far away the best non bust pick, his value will be top 5.

How can so many people say that he's not worth it with the 2 top 10 picks at LB last year?

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:22 PM
I think Adrian Peterson was a pretty good pick. And he would have been top 5 if not for the injury concern.

History has shown it depends more on the player. And the other players available in the draft at the time.

And I wouldn't because RB is a dime a dozen position that isn't worth the money or investment of a top 10 pick for him to be done in 5-7 years.

You can have a better RB than me I'll have a cheaper one that produces so I can spend my money on more valuable things, I feel the same way about LB's.

I just do not feel it is a wise move to make Aaron Curry the highest paid player at his position in the league. Dropping that kind of draft position and money on a guy that plays that position is like having your best player be your Tight End and what's that get you?

What you personally know of a player should factor in which is why I would never in a million years touch Orakpo but to me Curry doesn't override his position he isn't this once in 20 years player.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:24 PM
again.... I keep hearing over and over that Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs top pick and nobody really gives any proof other than he sucks.

that's why I enjoy CP, to actually here someone make a valid argument on something. I have not heard a valid argument with supporting evidence for why Curry's position is not worth the Chiefs pick.

Most draft "experts" believe that he is worth it. Please somebody, make a valid intellectual argument for why he is not worth it. I'm tired of hearing the same old crap that just assumes that he is not worth it bc he hasn't rushed the passer. Quit making assumptions and make a point.

I gave you the supporting evidence in the other thread where you asked this.

It's quite simple. Teams don't draft LB's in the top 5, especially not coverage LBs.

He isn't worth it because 25 years of NFL draft history say ILB's that don't rush the passer aren't worth a top 5 pick. If they were, there would be more than 2 or 3 of them in the last 15 freaking years.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:25 PM
you are correct in saying that highly rated pass rusher is worth more than highly rated ILB, but there isn't a consensus highly rated pass rusher in this draft. They all have question marks.

ILB has been shown to have top 10 value. In a weak draft, where Curry is by far away the best non bust pick, his value will be top 5.

How can so many people say that he's not worth it with the 2 top 10 picks at LB last year?

Again, Top 10 value is IRRELEVANT. We have the #3 pick, not a "top 10" pick.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:26 PM
If you are going to try to argue that this years draft class sucks so you have to take what you can get you should be arguing for Raji since his position is much more valuable.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:27 PM
the same people that said we need to take a QB and build the defense next year need to remember what they said. most them want to pass on a solid valuable player (Curry) who fills a position of need. take a solid building block this year and keep building next year.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:31 PM
You draft linebackers in rounds 2 and on not in the top 5...

Seriously what is this LB obsession with this fan base? Everyone loved and wanted DJ now it's Curry, what is the obsession with this position?

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:33 PM
the same people that said we need to take a QB and build the defense next year need to remember what they said. most them want to pass on a solid valuable player (Curry) who fills a position of need. take a solid building block this year and keep building next year.

The defensive prospects next year look alot better than this year. And the QBs going into next year's draft are AWFUL.

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 05:33 PM
You draft linebackers in rounds 2 and on not in the top 5...

Seriously what is this LB obsession with this fan base? Everyone loved and wanted DJ now it's Curry, what is the obsession with this position?

Return to the glory years of Marty Hymanshooter.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:34 PM
I like Raji.... on the field. he was dominant when I saw him play. I watched him most of the game when BC played Vandy in their bowl game. very powerful player.

but his off field problems bother me. he has question marks. again, Curry has none. I know it is not an exciting pick. But his position does have value. Not as much as a DT or a rusher, but he will be a solid pick and he is a player that you can build a defense around.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:34 PM
The defensive prospects next year look alot better than this year. And the QBs going into next year's draft are AWFUL.

There are basically 5 defensive players in next years draft that will almost certainly be rated better than any player in this one outside of say Stafford/Sanchez.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:35 PM
I like Raji.... on the field. he was dominant when I saw him play. I watched him most of the game when BC played Vandy in their bowl game. very powerful player.

but his off field problems bother me. he has question marks. again, Curry has none. I know it is not an exciting pick. But his position does have value. Not as much as a DT or a rusher, but he will be a solid pick and he is a player that you can build a defense around.

I don't think you build your defense around a LB like Curry, if you want to build your defense around a LB I want him to be DaMarcus Ware.

And what questions does Raji have, that he's a moron in class? If he played any other position I might be concerned but you can basically be a retarded dumbass and play DT, it doesn't really require a brain.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:36 PM
I don't have an obsession with LB. I do like to take the best player available. Curry is it. You don't take the best position available. That is not my philosophy.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:38 PM
The best player thing is done with you know relativity to what position a guy plays.

I 99 out of a 100 times wouldn't take a TE, RB, or LB with a top 10 pick but hey occasionally I'll bend like I think Arizona should have taken Peterson instead of Levi Brown but that's an easy call.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:38 PM
The defensive prospects next year look alot better than this year. And the QBs going into next year's draft are AWFUL.

before we traded for cassel, several people wanted to take a QB and go defense next year. We can still go defense next year. Take a solid player like Curry and keep building next year.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:39 PM
Return to the glory years of Marty Hymanshooter.

The thing is, outside of Derrick Thomas, the GOOD LB's of Marty's days were other teams cast-offs or late-round picks. Taking Curry is actually the OPPOSITE of what Marty did.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:40 PM
I'm really looking forward to Aaron Curry making 70 million dollars and being by far the highest paid LB in the league.

If you want to build the defense since this team is obviously leaning 3-4 go with the NT or the rusher.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:41 PM
before we traded for cassel, several people wanted to take a QB and go defense next year. We can still go defense next year. Take a solid player like Curry and keep building next year.

Hopefully, we'll be able to trade down and get actual value instead of settling for a player like Curry.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:42 PM
If they're going to settle they might aswell just take Raji. We have to fill NT and rusher over the next 2 years and there's a couple of really good edge rusher prospects in next years draft...

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 05:42 PM
The thing is, outside of Derrick Thomas, the GOOD LB's of Marty's days were other teams cast-offs or late-round picks. Taking Curry is actually the OPPOSITE of what Marty did.

Well, except for Percy Snow and Mike Junkin (#5 overall).

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:43 PM
I could literally list 5 things probably more, I'd rather do than just draft Aaron Curry.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:44 PM
Well, except for Percy Snow and Mike Junkin (#5 overall).

I forgot about Junkin in Cleveland. I wonder if his short career, combined with Snow's mishap, soured Marty on the idea?

DaneMcCloud
03-30-2009, 05:46 PM
I forgot about Junkin in Cleveland. I wonder if his short career, combined with Snow's mishap, soured Marty on the idea?

Marty traded for Junkin in 1989. He sucked. Then, they took linebackers in consecutive years (DT, Snow).

He was also on board when guys like Merriman were taken as well. I think it's just a coincidence that he was involved in so many high-choice linebackers.

But what I was referring to was that there are plenty of people pining for the days of strong defense with an outstanding linebacker leading the way. They seem to be convinced that Curry can and will be the reincarnation of Derrick Thomas.

Derrick Johnson is probably more likely.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:48 PM
Again, Top 10 value is IRRELEVANT. We have the #3 pick, not a "top 10" pick.

value changes relative to the players available each year. a top 10 pick one year maybe worth more than a top 5 pick the next year.

value is based upon the players available. top ten value last year is relevant based on the players taken around those picks. that example was used to determine positional value.

2 non rushing LBs were taken before a very good corner. maybe that corner had question marks but those teams elected to take a good LB rather than reach for a corner. Corner's obviously have high positional value.

that is the point I'm trying to make using historical evidence. Curry's positional value is higher than has been assessed on this board. This board has not adequately assessed the value of Curry relative to the other players available in this draft.

kcbubb
03-30-2009, 05:50 PM
I would rather trade down too. But if we keep the pick, it needs to be Curry.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:51 PM
value changes relative to the players available each year. a top 10 pick one year maybe worth more than a top 5 pick the next year.

value is based upon the players available. top ten value last year is relevant based on the players taken around those picks. that example was used to determine positional value.

2 non rushing LBs were taken before a very good corner. maybe that corner had question marks but those teams elected to take a good LB rather than reach for a corner. Corner's obviously have high positional value.

that is the point I'm trying to make using historical evidence. Curry's positional value is higher than has been assessed on this board. This board has not adequately assessed the value of Curry relative to the other players available in this draft.

And those 2 players were drafted by Cincinatti who had just used 2 1st round picks on CB's...now I personally felt Rivers was an outstanding prospect and I thought them taking him was the absolute highest he should be going...

Not to mention the other team was NE who everyone pretty much knew would take a LB as they were a Superbowl team with that being their weakest position and their organization devalues the CB position.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:52 PM
I would rather trade down too. But if we keep the pick, it needs to be Curry.

Disagree, our highest paid player being a ILB when we're going 3-4 is just retarded, it's like having your highest paid offensive player be a tight end.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:55 PM
Marty traded for Junkin in 1989. He sucked. Then, they took linebackers in consecutive years (DT, Snow).

He was also on board when guys like Merriman were taken as well. I think it's just a coincidence that he was involved in so many high-choice linebackers.

But what I was referring to was that there are plenty of people pining for the days of strong defense with an outstanding linebacker leading the way. They seem to be convinced that Curry can and will be the reincarnation of Derrick Thomas.

Derrick Johnson is probably more likely.

DT and Merriman don't count, they're OLB that were drafted to rush the passer in the 3-4. I'm talking specifically about coverage LBs and ILBs, where Marty used guys like Lonnie Marts, Tracy Simien, and Anthony Davis.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:57 PM
This is my opinion, for most Chiefs fans Curry feels good for them because he's right in line with everything our organization has been about.

Really good player at a position of small value...you know right in line with Tony Gonzalez, Priest Holmes, Larry Johnson, Tony Richardson, Will Shields etc.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 05:58 PM
value changes relative to the players available each year. a top 10 pick one year maybe worth more than a top 5 pick the next year.

value is based upon the players available. top ten value last year is relevant based on the players taken around those picks. that example was used to determine positional value.

2 non rushing LBs were taken before a very good corner. maybe that corner had question marks but those teams elected to take a good LB rather than reach for a corner. Corner's obviously have high positional value.

that is the point I'm trying to make using historical evidence. Curry's positional value is higher than has been assessed on this board. This board has not adequately assessed the value of Curry relative to the other players available in this draft.

2 non-rusing LBs were taken at NUMBER NINE AND NUMBER TEN last year. When are you going to get it through your head? We have THE NUMBER THREE OVERALL PICK.

Furthermore, you're not using anything like historical evidence. The last coverage LB taken in the top 5 was Lavar Arrington - just look how that turned out.

NFL teams don't take ILB's in the top 5, period. There's been 3 that I've found since 1990. That's 19 years and only 3 non-pass rushing LB's taken in the top 5. Not one of those 3 turned into a difference-making player. Arrington was a solid player but never a superstar.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 05:59 PM
Frankly Arrington was more a rusher than he was a cover guy, Penn State basically just let him free lance and rush the passer.

htismaqe
03-30-2009, 06:03 PM
Frankly Arrington was more a rusher than he was a cover guy, Penn State basically just let him free lance and rush the passer.

That was the problem. Arrington's skills weren't those of a premiere 3-4 OLB. In college, his superior athleticism allowed him to move around and do a bit of everything. In the NFL, he had no position because he wasn't a great pass rushing OLB.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 06:05 PM
I think Arrington did at 1 time have top level NFL caliber talent and had a couple of really nice years but his career died when Greg Williams came in and then he got injured. Any scheme that asked for all players to be disciplined and not free lance was not a fit for him.

Arringtons best qualities were basically being undisciplined and using that to make plays.

bdeg
03-30-2009, 06:05 PM
I like Raji.... on the field. he was dominant when I saw him play. I watched him most of the game when BC played Vandy in their bowl game. very powerful player.

but his off field problems bother me. he has question marks. again, Curry has none. I know it is not an exciting pick. But his position does have value. Not as much as a DT or a rusher, but he will be a solid pick and he is a player that you can build a defense around.

I'm curious, what are your knocks on Brown again? Please don't tell me undersized/not explosize/fsu history

I can respect wanting to build it one great piece at a time, though. This is a long-term project, it's all about how they actually rate the players(with positional value being a definite factor).

Mecca
03-30-2009, 06:05 PM
I'm curious, what are your knocks on Brown again? Please don't tell me undersized/not explosize/fsu history

Mike Mayock doesn't like him.

Saccopoo
03-30-2009, 11:01 PM
If they're going to settle they might aswell just take Raji. We have to fill NT and rusher over the next 2 years and there's a couple of really good edge rusher prospects in next years draft...

You are complaining about Curry being overvalued, and you want them to take a 3-4 nose tackle project with the #3 pick? Raji doesn't have the height, his weight is disproportionately centered around his lower hips, and has seemingly short arms. He's not close to being or will likely ever be similar to current top flight 3-4 nose tackles such as Haloti Ngata, Jamaal Williams or Vince Wilfork. He's more than likely to be a big, fat paycheck and a fried chicken shack from being out of the league in three years or so. (In fact, the Boston College situation looks similiar to that the NC State/Mario Williams/everyone else and UNC/Ryan Sims/Julius Peppers. One guy is usually pretty good. The others - not so much. Without the presence of Brace at BC at the college level, how good is Raji really going to be, especially in a 3-4 alignment?)

I think Raji, more than anyone in this draft, is benefitting from the new focus on a 3-4 by a lot of NFL teams and has improved his draft stock because of it and would be a major reach by the Chiefs at the #3 spot.

I'd personally rather see DJ and Curry at the inside LB spots in a 3-4, with Johnston and Vrabel on the outside spots than BJ Raji at the nose and not having Curry in the middle. Our linebackers were downright atrocious last season. Maybe worse than that.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 11:20 PM
Great, Derrick Johnson doesn't like blockers so him at the ILB is going to be pretty funny especially with no nose, I hope he enjoys getting flat backed.

I think it's really funny though that you are equating Raji who is universally thought of as the better prospect between he and Brace to the shittier version of those scenarios how's that make any fucking sense?

RustShack
03-31-2009, 01:09 AM
You are complaining about Curry being overvalued, and you want them to take a 3-4 nose tackle project with the #3 pick? Raji doesn't have the height, his weight is disproportionately centered around his lower hips, and has seemingly short arms. He's not close to being or will likely ever be similar to current top flight 3-4 nose tackles such as Haloti Ngata, Jamaal Williams or Vince Wilfork. He's more than likely to be a big, fat paycheck and a fried chicken shack from being out of the league in three years or so. (In fact, the Boston College situation looks similiar to that the NC State/Mario Williams/everyone else and UNC/Ryan Sims/Julius Peppers. One guy is usually pretty good. The others - not so much. Without the presence of Brace at BC at the college level, how good is Raji really going to be, especially in a 3-4 alignment?)

I think Raji, more than anyone in this draft, is benefitting from the new focus on a 3-4 by a lot of NFL teams and has improved his draft stock because of it and would be a major reach by the Chiefs at the #3 spot.

I'd personally rather see DJ and Curry at the inside LB spots in a 3-4, with Johnston and Vrabel on the outside spots than BJ Raji at the nose and not having Curry in the middle. Our linebackers were downright atrocious last season. Maybe worse than that.

So lets draft a position that can be found anywhere and let him do nothing because he doesn't have a NT in front of him. Sounds brilliant! Also you would think if Todd Haley wanted to draft Curry he would have attended his Pro Day don't ya?

RedThat
03-31-2009, 01:26 AM
You draft linebackers in rounds 2 and on not in the top 5...

Seriously what is this LB obsession with this fan base? Everyone loved and wanted DJ now it's Curry, what is the obsession with this position?

Well, it's a very important position.

That, and the fact we haven't had a really good linebacker in years. Most great defenses have that position locked down. They are the playmakers on defense.

RustShack
03-31-2009, 01:31 AM
Well, it's a very important position.

That, and the fact we haven't had a really good linebacker in years. Most great defenses have that position locked down. They are the playmakers on defense.

What great LB's have never had a good Dline?

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 01:32 AM
Well, it's a very important position.

That, and the fact we haven't had a really good linebacker in years. Most great defenses have that position locked down. They are the playmakers on defense.

I think people on CP overlook how important the position actually is. Its much more important than people give it credit for.

ChiefsCountry
03-31-2009, 01:45 AM
Seriously what is this LB obsession with this fan base?

Bobby Bell
Willie Lainer
Jim Lynch
Derrick Thomas

Mecca
03-31-2009, 01:54 AM
I think people on CP overlook how important the position actually is. Its much more important than people give it credit for.

Sure all positions are important it's just not as important as basically every other position on the defense.

ChiefsCountry
03-31-2009, 01:58 AM
LB and OL seem to be overvalued by Chiefs mainly bc their best players over the years have been at these positions.

philfree
03-31-2009, 07:00 AM
LB and OL seem to be overvalued by Chiefs mainly bc their best players over the years have been at these positions.

What do mean by Chiefs? You mean Chiefs fans? I call bullshit. The best player(according to most draft dudes) in this draft happens to be a LB so many Chiefs fans are willling to go with that player if he's on the board when the Chiefs draft. So in 2009 Chiefs fans overvalue LBs? Right!


PhilFree:arrow:

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 08:20 AM
Sure all positions are important it's just not as important as basically every other position on the defense.

so you really think free saftey is a more important position than linebacker?

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 08:23 AM
LB and OL seem to be overvalued by Chiefs mainly bc their best players over the years have been at these positions.

Its hard to "overvalue" the offensive line. Its one of the most important parts of a solid football team.

kcbubb
03-31-2009, 08:47 AM
I'm curious, what are your knocks on Brown again? Please don't tell me undersized/not explosize/fsu history

I can respect wanting to build it one great piece at a time, though. This is a long-term project, it's all about how they actually rate the players(with positional value being a definite factor).

I don't like his size, athleticism, or versatility. I do think he has bust potential because of those things. But almost every prospect has bust potential. I think he is a good prospect, but I just don't like him at #3. If we can trade down to #10, I think he would be a good pick. I just don't think it is likely that we trade down.

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 08:48 AM
I don't like his size, athleticism, or versatility. I do think he has bust potential because of those things. But almost every prospect has bust potential. I think he is a good prospect, but I just don't like him at #3. If we can trade down to #10, I think he would be a good pick. I just don't think it is likely that we trade down.

we seem to have some of the same thoughts on this whole thing.....

kcbubb
03-31-2009, 08:51 AM
Raji's problems with academics are more than just brains to me. It is a red flag for character issues. He let his team down when he was suspended. Could he end up being a big fat lazy DT? I don't know, but I want to know that he won't be before I take him #3.

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 08:57 AM
Raji's problems with academics are more than just brains to me. It is a red flag for character issues. He let his team down when he was suspended. Could he end up being a big fat lazy DT? I don't know, but I want to know that he won't be before I take him #3.

true, we dont want Tank Tyler and Raji falling asleep in the film room. I like Raji to an extent, but I dont think we should draft him seeing that we just drafted a DT top 5 last year, who might not even have a position in our new defense.

Mecca
03-31-2009, 12:34 PM
so you really think free saftey is a more important position than linebacker?

Well obviously it depends on the players but if you're asking me if I'd draft Eric Berry over Curry I would...in todays pass happy league the safety position is becoming more and more important.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 12:41 PM
Well obviously it depends on the players but if you're asking me if I'd draft Eric Berry over Curry I would...in todays pass happy league the safety position is becoming more and more important.

*cough* Sean Smith *cough* *hack*

Mecca
03-31-2009, 12:42 PM
*cough* Sean Smith *cough* *hack*

Sean Smiths a tweener....

There's only a couple safeties in this class I like and one of them can probably be had in round 4 or 5.

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 12:56 PM
Well obviously it depends on the players but if you're asking me if I'd draft Eric Berry over Curry I would...in todays pass happy league the safety position is becoming more and more important.

you would seriously take a 2 year college safety over a 4 year starting LB who could go #1 this year?

Berry is good no doubt, but I would never take a true sophomore #3 if i ever had that opportunity.

oldandslow
03-31-2009, 12:57 PM
Well obviously it depends on the players but if you're asking me if I'd draft Eric Berry over Curry I would...in todays pass happy league the safety position is becoming more and more important.

I have no love for Curry, but let's not get crazy.

KCrockaholic
03-31-2009, 12:58 PM
Sean Smiths a tweener....

There's only a couple safeties in this class I like and one of them can probably be had in round 4 or 5.

I dont know about Sean Smith. He doesnt have a lot of experience at safety, CB, or WR. He will have a lot of problems in the NFL to begin with. It all depends on how they use him.

Mecca
03-31-2009, 12:59 PM
you would seriously take a 2 year college safety over a 4 year starting LB who could go #1 this year?

Berry is good no doubt, but I would never take a true sophomore #3 if i ever had that opportunity.

Absolutely Eric Berry is a playmaker, in 2 years he's made more plays than most guys do in 6.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 02:10 PM
Sean Smiths a tweener....

There's only a couple safeties in this class I like and one of them can probably be had in round 4 or 5.

Smith is 6'4", 215 lb. with the speed and coverage skills of a near elite cornerback that likes to lay the lumber on people. If that doesn't scream kick-ass free safety, I don't know what does.

bdeg
03-31-2009, 02:17 PM
Smith is 6'4", 215 lb. with the speed and coverage skills of a near elite cornerback that likes to lay the lumber on people. If that doesn't scream kick-ass free safety, I don't know what does.

Sounds great.

What's your opinion on Dajuan Morgan?

Mecca
03-31-2009, 02:18 PM
Smith is 6'4", 215 lb. with the speed and coverage skills of a near elite cornerback that likes to lay the lumber on people. If that doesn't scream kick-ass free safety, I don't know what does.

He's got nothing on those once in a lifetime safeties in next years class...

bdeg
03-31-2009, 02:20 PM
He's got nothing on those once in a lifetime safeties in next years class...

Ya ya ya, and Brown has nothing on the rushers. I doubt we'll be in a spot to take any of these players. I don't see this as that valid, we have no idea who's going to get injured, who's going to suck, and who's not going to be anywhere near available.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 02:31 PM
He's got nothing on those once in a lifetime safeties in next years class...

Sean Smith would make a nice tandem with Taylor Mays, that's for sure. With Flowers and Carr...*shivers* Scary...

I also like Dujuan Morgan, although I think he's destined for nickle/dime/special teams. Hits like a truck, although, it seems he doesn't have the size to play strong safety and lacks the speed for free safety. I'd like to see more of him on the field however.

bdeg
03-31-2009, 02:36 PM
Sean Smith would make a nice tandem with Taylor Mays, that's for sure. With Flowers and Carr...*shivers* Scary...

I also like Dujuan Morgan, although I think he's destined for nickle/dime/special teams. Hits like a truck, although, it seems he doesn't have the size to play strong safety and lacks the speed for free safety. I'd like to see more of him on the field however.

Compare these real quick...
Sean Smith
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6034
Weight: 214
40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 10
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.15
3-Cone Drill: 6.92

DaJuan Morgan
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6001
Weight: 205
40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.43
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 7.12

Also consider Smith's proday broadjump of 09'05 compared to Morgan's 10'. Note the large difference in bench press.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 02:43 PM
Compare these real quick...
Sean Smith
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6034
Weight: 214
40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
20 Yrd Dash: 2.59
10 Yrd Dash: 1.53
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 10
Vertical Jump: 34
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.15
3-Cone Drill: 6.92

DaJuan Morgan
Combine Invite: Yes
Height: 6001
Weight: 205
40 Yrd Dash: 4.50
20 Yrd Dash: 2.62
10 Yrd Dash: 1.43
225 Lb. Bench Reps: 21
Vertical Jump: 33
Broad Jump: 09'11"
20 Yrd Shuttle: 4.41
3-Cone Drill: 7.12

I'm not saying Morgan sucks. I like Morgan. I like all of our safeties and cornerbacks. I think Morgan is a very acceptable backup and nickle/dime guy to Page and Pollard (who I like a lot, though others here do not).

However, Smith, at 6'4", 215 with good definition and the ability to carry 10-15 pounds more, with long arms and cornerback speed, a ballhawk and not afraid to hit people looks to be the premier safety in this draft. I never said anything about the Chiefs taking him or needing him. Safety is the least of the Chiefs worries.

Mecca was talking about Berry, and I felt Smith was the better prospect. Where did the need for a Morgan/Smith comparison come from?

bdeg
03-31-2009, 02:46 PM
I just don't understand why you think Smith has 'cornerback speed' and the ability to play FS when he and Morgan had the same 40 time.

I was optimistically hoping Morgan could fill the FS role in the near future.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 02:50 PM
I just don't understand why you think Smith has 'cornerback speed' and the ability to play FS when he and Morgan had the same 40 time.

I was optimistically hoping Morgan could fill the FS role in the near future.

What the hell does Morgan have to do with anything? I was talking about Smith being the better prospect than Berry. I don't want the Chiefs taking Smith. They don't need a free safety. They have good safeties. I like Page/Pollard/Morgan. A lot.

I did mention a hypothetical Smith/Mays/Flower/Carr secondary, and that would be insane good, but again, safety is not a pressing need for the Chiefs. They have good safeties and in a year or two, under decent coaching, could have one of the top secondaries in the NFL.

Mecca
03-31-2009, 02:51 PM
Whoa now Eric Berry is the definition of a playmaker I'm not sure how Sean Smith can be compared to him.

bdeg
03-31-2009, 02:54 PM
What the hell does Morgan have to do with anything? I was talking about Smith being the better prospect than Berry. I don't want the Chiefs taking Smith. They don't need a free safety. They have good safeties. I like Page/Pollard/Morgan. A lot.

I did mention a hypothetical Smith/Mays/Flower/Carr secondary, and that would be insane good, but again, safety is not a pressing need for the Chiefs. They have good safeties and in a year or two, under decent coaching, could have one of the top secondaries in the NFL.
I asked your opinion of Morgan, you said this:


I also like Dujuan Morgan, although I think he's destined for nickle/dime/special teams. Hits like a truck, although, it seems he doesn't have the size to play strong safety and lacks the speed for free safety. I'd like to see more of him on the field however.
I showed that he had the same 40 time as your player who has 'cornerback speed'

It's just a little confusing unless you're totally discounting the 40. I'm not saying Morgan can cover like Smith...yet. I'm just hoping he could develop to fit that same role. If they had the same 40(I like Morgan's combine/PD #'s better), why is Morgan incapable of that?

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 03:03 PM
Whoa now Eric Berry is the definition of a playmaker I'm not sure how Sean Smith can be compared to him.

In a way that Smith is taller, is as good a ballhawk and faster. I'm not saying Eric Berry sucks. He's had a remarkable two year career at Tennessee and deserved his first team AA nomination. Smith isn't a slouch either, and because he played in the Mountain West, most people have never seen him play. Kid can ball, and has a size advantage over most corners and a speed advantage over most safeties.

I'd just take a 6'4" guy over a 5'10" guy if everything else was equal.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 03:06 PM
I asked your opinion of Morgan, you said this:

I showed that he had the same 40 time as your player who has 'cornerback speed'

It's just a little confusing unless you're totally discounting the 40. I'm not saying Morgan can cover like Smith...yet. I'm just hoping he could develop to fit that same role. If they had the same 40(I like Morgan's combine/PD #'s better), why is Morgan incapable of that?

Hips, feet...I don't know. He wasn't able to beat out Page last season. Beats me. I like the kid. I'm glad he's a Chief.

bdeg
03-31-2009, 03:08 PM
Hips, feet...I don't know. He wasn't able to beat out Page last season. Beats me. I like the kid. I'm glad he's a Chief.

He was a rookie. Safeties HAVE to be able to identify plays and that's not easy in the NFL. Everyone knew he was raw coming out, but some considered him to have greater upside than Kenny Phillips.

Coogs
03-31-2009, 03:11 PM
Hips, feet...I don't know. He wasn't able to beat out Page last season. Beats me. I like the kid. I'm glad he's a Chief.

Injury to his arm/hand kept him out of practice for a long spell.

Saccopoo
03-31-2009, 08:40 PM
He was a rookie. Safeties HAVE to be able to identify plays and that's not easy in the NFL. Everyone knew he was raw coming out, but some considered him to have greater upside than Kenny Phillips.

I haven't seen that much of him - none in college and only what he was able to show in a marginal role for the Chiefs last season. However, I remember hearing somewhere that they (the Chiefs) were hoping that he would be able to push the other safeties based on his overall abilities. Herm and Co. really liked him and the draftniks last year thought that we absolutely stole him in the draft last year, much the same as Flowers.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 12:22 AM
He was a rookie. Safeties HAVE to be able to identify plays and that's not easy in the NFL. Everyone knew he was raw coming out, but some considered him to have greater upside than Kenny Phillips.

I'm friends with the coach at NC State that recruited Morgan and coached him there (he's a D-coordinator at another school now and also recruited Tank).

He thinks that Morgan will be a stud. He was hampered by injuries in training camp and throughout the season.

So, we'll see.

Chiefnj2
04-01-2009, 10:26 AM
Morgan was another example of fans being overhyped on a prospect The day he was drafted people were saying the kid is going to push Pollard out of a starting spot by midseason, etc.

Morgan only had something like 12 collegiate starts under his belt when he declared. When you see an underclassman with such little experience you just have to write "check back in three years" next to his name if your team drafts him.

milkman
04-01-2009, 10:29 AM
Morgan was another example of fans being overhyped on a prospect The day he was drafted people were saying the kid is going to push Pollard out of a starting spot by midseason, etc.

Morgan only had something like 12 collegiate starts under his belt when he declared. When you see an underclassman with such little experience you just have to write "check back in three years" next to his name if your team drafts him.

I think that a part of that, a large part, is that some of us think that Pollard is nothing more a scrub.

Same can be said for Page.

htismaqe
04-01-2009, 10:44 AM
I see Morgan starting at some point this season, assuming he doesn't have any more setbacks.

KCrockaholic
04-01-2009, 12:50 PM
I see Morgan starting at some point this season, assuming he doesn't have any more setbacks.

which side? FS or SS? Pollard are Page are close to the same talent level I think. Pollard is more of the run stopper though, while Page is good at whiffing on open field tackles.

htismaqe
04-01-2009, 01:18 PM
which side? FS or SS? Pollard are Page are close to the same talent level I think. Pollard is more of the run stopper though, while Page is good at whiffing on open field tackles.

I think Morgan's speed and nose for the ball put him in Page's spot moreso than Pollard's. It's going to depend on the defensive scheme.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 01:24 PM
With Pollard's upside, I think we'll see him continue to improve. I think the spot that'll be available is Page's even though I could see Morgan fitting well at either spot.

KCrockaholic
04-01-2009, 01:28 PM
With Pollard's upside, I think we'll see him continue to improve. I think the spot that'll be available is Page's even though I could see Morgan fitting well at either spot.

Page may already have hit is plateu. Pollard still has upside like you said, I just hope they still use him on special teams rushing the punter.

htismaqe
04-01-2009, 02:35 PM
With Pollard's upside, I think we'll see him continue to improve. I think the spot that'll be available is Page's even though I could see Morgan fitting well at either spot.

Yep.

philfree
04-02-2009, 12:01 AM
This is a good article. Hype some will call it but I think explains why Curry is the #1 prospect in the draft.

PhilFree:arrow:

WINSTON-SALEM, N.C. -- The carpet was cream-colored, and, mercifully, shag. And when Aaron Curry crawled down there at night, with his pillow and blanket on the floor, he was usually too tired to care. Someday Curry was going to laugh at this: that he'd gone from temporarily homeless and sleeping on the floor of a buddy's bedroom to the NFL. Someday he'd get someone else to believe it.



It's a two-hour drive from Curry's hometown of Fayetteville, N.C., to Wake Forest, and you can tell you've arrived on campus by the smell of tobacco and success. Guards in tiny shacks keep strangers away at night, and at daylight, serious-looking scholars walk briskly up the hills to one of the best educations in the South.



Aaron Curry file
Scouts Inc.: Locates the ball carrier quickly. Aggressive and quick enough to disrupt running plays in the backfield. Explosive enough to turn the corner as a pass-rusher at the NFL level and shows ideal closing speed. Complete report

Kiper: Defensive rankings by position
Scouts: LB cheat sheet
That Curry survived here, got his bachelor's degree in sociology while his mom struggled to raise three boys on her own, is a Horatio Alger story in and of itself. That he's attracted 41 NFL scouts to the campus could be considered an even bigger feat. Wake Forest coach Jim Grobe tells reporters that they normally have to beg to get a guy with a clipboard down to the practice field to watch. But now the place is buzzing.

Curry walks out onto the field, in his black warm-ups and neon-lime cleats and gloves, and the scouts immediately start to scribble. He glides through a bag drill; he sticks around to give a few unknown hopefuls who didn't even play for Wake Forest some pointers. And when pro day is over, the All-America linebacker drifts away from the circus and takes a seat near his friend, John Fuller.

They've known each other since grade school, when Curry was an awkward kid with thick glasses, big hands and a wiry body that would have frustrated even Charles Atlas. Three summers ago, when Curry's mom was evicted from their rental home in Fayetteville, he made an early-morning call to Fuller and asked if he could stay for a night. The one night led to three months; the friendship transcended social classes. Fuller's mom bought Curry some jeans and a couple of shirts for Christmas, just so he'd have something to open.

Now Curry is considered possibly the biggest prize of the 2009 draft. It's a $60 million leap, but draftniks say Curry is a safe bet, a combination of speed, power and plain old gumption. He's listed as the top athlete on many draft boards. He's mindful of the precipitous climb.

"I ask Aaron, 'How are you taking this all in?'" Fuller says. "Because it's hard for me to take it all in. We're coming from nothing, but he's about to have so much."

The beginning

It starts, inevitably, with "The Mama-ger." Chris Curry has been calling herself that lately, in jest, as her youngest boy's stock continues to rise. She is stubborn and hard-headed, but then again, so is he. She knows when he doesn't answer his cell phone late at night that it usually means he's gone to the tattoo parlor to get inked again. She forbade him to get a tattoo of her, and meant it. "This face," she says, "is copyrighted."

NFL.com Video

Wake Forest LB Aaron Curry shares his football memories as he prepares for the 2009 draft.
His older brothers, Christopher and Brandon, generally didn't want to play football with the scrawny kid. So Aaron spent much of his younger years tagging along with his mom to the mall, to the grocery store, to buy his beloved Jujubes. "Canley" is what she lovingly called him, because he couldn't pronounce "candy."

Whenever Aaron Curry got in trouble, it generally had to do with his schoolwork. "Whatever you do," he'd tell his teachers, "don't call my mama."

After his last exam of college, Curry sent her a text message: I'M DONE.

"I was really pushy about things," she says. "If you're going to do something right, do it all the way."

Genetics suggested that Curry was destined to play football. His father is Reggie Pinkney, a former defensive back for the Lions and Baltimore Colts. If Curry turns warm and fuzzy in conversations about his mom, he chills a bit when Pinkney is brought up. He doesn't talk about his dad much, and says he got his athletic ability from his grandfather, a large man who played basketball and track and was called "Big Pa."

"My mom was my dad," Curry says. "It was my mom and my two older brothers. We were all we had, and we made it."

Not satisfied

The autumn nights were brutal on the E.E. Smith football team in Fayetteville. If Curry wasn't satisfied with a practice, or felt that he had a play down, he kept the whole team as the sun fell, and teenagers toiled away under the glow of a couple of headlights.

You've gotta see this kid, Curry's coach, Mike Earwood, would tell the college guys. But at 190 pounds, Curry didn't give them much to look at. Only two schools, Wake Forest and East Carolina, offered scholarships. Curry chose Wake in part because it was two hours from home, but mostly for revenge.

"It's what I call the Adrian Peterson approach," Curry says. "Anybody who passed me up, I was going to punish them. That's why I chose the ACC, [because] those schools like Carolina, Duke, and North Carolina State were right around the corner, and I wasn't wanted by any of them.

"So I took that approach that every game I played, I was going to prove everyone wrong. That I was better than what they thought I was."

He was better than anyone thought. He shot up to 6-foot-2 and 250 pounds; he emerged as one of the top linebackers in the country. Curry would spend three hours in the film room watching muted practice tapes, always scrutinizing his mistakes.

Sean Meyers/Icon SMI
Wake Forest's Aaron Curry won the 2008 Butkus Award as the nation's top linebacker.

Before workouts, his defensive coordinator, Brad Lambert, would remind Curry "not to kill anybody." He was joking … mostly.

"He's always trying to hit somebody so hard that we've got to slow him down," Lambert says. "Even in practice. That's the beauty about him. What you see on Saturday is what you see on Tuesday.

"That's how he helped bring our team along. Because it was hard to take a day off when the best player on your team is working hard every day."

The season before Curry arrived, Wake Forest was 5-7. He led the Demon Deacons to a school-record three straight bowl games. Some of his highlight tapes left even Curry speechless. The seven tackles and two interceptions against North Carolina his junior year; the 82 yards he ran one of the picks back for a touchdown. Not one receiver could catch him.

In his senior season he had 105 tackles, including 16 for a loss, and won the Butkus Award. He didn't tell many people this, that he almost didn't make it. Curry seriously considered entering the draft in late 2007 to provide for his family. He told his brothers that he was leaving Wake Forest, and called his teammates and said the same thing.

Deep inside, he was worried about his mom. The year before, she had run into trouble. She had three sons in college, fell a little behind, and had a not-so-sympathetic landlord. She had been forced out of their rental home in the summer of 2006, leaving Aaron to move his belongings into the Fuller house.

Chris rolls her eyes when someone mentions that summer of struggles.

"People get evicted every day," she says. "You have to keep it in perspective. I mean, it's not a good experience, but it happens for various reasons. It was hard on Aaron. He was mostly worried about me, and I told him, 'I am fine.'

"But that's life in America."

At pro day

It's a couple of minutes before Curry is set to do positional drills at pro day, and he takes off his warm-up jacket and bounces from foot to foot, shadowboxing, his fists punching the warm Carolina air. He does this before every game, as sort of a tribute to Muhammad Ali.

[+] EnlargeSean Meyers/Icon SMI
Wake Forest defensive coordinator Brad Lambert admires Curry's work ethic. "What you see on Saturday," he says, "is what you see on Tuesday."

He's an Ali fanatic, and before a big game, he tries to put himself in the boxer's shoes to get himself motivated.

"A lot of people looked at Muhammad Ali as cocky and arrogant," Curry says, "but he was just confident. And he worked hard. When you work as hard as Muhammad Ali worked, you have every bit, every right, to be confident.

"That's how I see myself. I work very hard and I never let anybody tell me what I can or cannot do as far as football."

For a kid who used to stuff pads in his uniform just to make himself look bigger for the college recruiters, the past four months have been surreal for Curry. He flew to Arizona in late December to train at the Athletes' Performance Institute, for three months of intensive workouts. In February, Curry's work showed at the NFL combine in Indianapolis, where he ran the 40-yard dash in an impressive 4.52 seconds.

The gurus call him a sure thing, a lock to be one of the first men to spring out of his seat at the April 25 draft. Besides being consistently impressive on tape, Curry has the versatility to play inside or outside linebacker or dabble at defensive end.

He could go anywhere near the top, from Detroit to Kansas City. He could be the centerpiece of any rebuilding defense.

"Everybody says the same thing about Aaron," Curry's agent, Andy Ross, says. "He just raises the level of his teammates.

"At pro day, after some of the players got done running their first 40, Aaron was kind of pulling them off to the side, showing them things to work on with their start. Some of the guys were from other teams. How often do you see a player who's there with all the expectations he has and he's trying to help out the other guys who are there? That's the type of guy he is."

Curry knows this: His life is about to dramatically change. But maybe, in some ways, it won't. A few months ago, with a little bit of new money, he went Christmas shopping for a needy child in Winston-Salem. Just to give the kid something to open.

"I think anybody who knows my story," Curry says, "would be inspired to just keep fighting. To keep working. I've been through some tough times, but I've found a way to be successful in football."

KCrockaholic
04-02-2009, 12:05 AM
Jesus Christ Phil! Your a great poster IMHO. But We really dont need anymore Aaron Curry for a while. Nothing that I say, you say, Kiper, Mayock, or anyone else for that matter could ever change the feelings of the people that dont like Aaron Curry....thanks for the post by the way :)

philfree
04-02-2009, 12:11 AM
Jesus Christ Phil! Your a great poster IMHO. But We really dont need anymore Aaron Curry for a while. Nothing that I say, you say, Kiper, Mayock, or anyone else for that matter could ever change the feelings of the people that dont like Aaron Curry....thanks for the post by the way :)

I couldn't resist. I'm starting to think that it's all for naught though. I think after Sanchez's pro day and the Cutler situation the value of the QBs in this draft will be even greater then normal. We'll end up being able to trade out of the #3rd pick IMO. And that's fine with me. Although if the teams won't cough up enough compensation to move up I'm prepared to draft a QB with that pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

Tribal Warfare
04-02-2009, 12:11 AM
Jesus Christ Phil! Your a great poster IMHO. But We really dont need anymore Aaron Curry for a while. Nothing that I say, you say, Kiper, Mayock, or anyone else for that matter could ever change the feelings of the people that dont like Aaron Curry....thanks for the post by the way :)



Yeah, Curry is the second coming of God but less athletic than Gholston who actually rushed the passer in college. He had speed too, but his ass hardly got on the field.

ChiefBrad
04-02-2009, 06:08 AM
Page is a very good safety. And We should def. take Curry if he is available. We need a nasty linebacker. D. Johnson is good but he is not nasty enough. Our D is missing that Nasty image that it takes to win in the playoffs. Vrabel will help that image and so will Curry. I know when the Chargers got Merriman that helped them start to win playoff games. Curry may be able to make a S. Merriman type of impact.

philfree
04-02-2009, 08:22 AM
Yeah, Curry is the second coming of God but less athletic than Gholston who actually rushed the passer in college. He had speed too, but his ass hardly got on the field.

Now we have a Curry Gholston comparison. Brillliant!

PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 08:56 AM
Now we have a Curry Gholston comparison. Brillliant!

PhilFree:arrow:

It's not a comparison and it's a VERY valid point.

Gholston was more athletic in workouts than Curry and actually RUSHED the passer in college.

Yet he had 13 tackles and 0 sacks last year.

If Gholston couldn't do it on athleticism alone, what makes ANYBODY think Curry can do it?

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 08:57 AM
Page is a very good safety. And We should def. take Curry if he is available. We need a nasty linebacker. D. Johnson is good but he is not nasty enough. Our D is missing that Nasty image that it takes to win in the playoffs. Vrabel will help that image and so will Curry. I know when the Chargers got Merriman that helped them start to win playoff games. Curry may be able to make a S. Merriman type of impact.

Seriously, give us all a break.

Merriman recorded 8.5 sacks as a part-time starter his sophomore year.

Curry had 9 sacks in his ENTIRE COLLEGE CAREER.

philfree
04-02-2009, 09:25 AM
It's not a comparison and it's a VERY valid point.

Gholston was more athletic in workouts than Curry and actually RUSHED the passer in college.

Yet he had 13 tackles and 0 sacks last year.

If Gholston couldn't do it on athleticism alone, what makes ANYBODY think Curry can do it?


Amazing. People make it like Curry has never even crossed the line of scrimmage. He had 29.5 tkls for loss the last two years and 5.5 sacks. I mean I'm all for trading down but the arguments against Curry aren't very good IMO.


PhilFree:arrow:

Chiefnj2
04-02-2009, 09:28 AM
It's not a comparison and it's a VERY valid point.

Gholston was more athletic in workouts than Curry and actually RUSHED the passer in college.

Yet he had 13 tackles and 0 sacks last year.

If Gholston couldn't do it on athleticism alone, what makes ANYBODY think Curry can do it?

Gholston was very inconsistent, disappeared in games and there are questions about his intelligence.

Are you trying to say that every athletic collegiate player is going to fail in the NFL?

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 09:32 AM
Amazing. People make it like Curry has never even crossed the line of scrimmage. He had 29.5 tkls for loss the last two years and 5.5 sacks. I mean I'm all for trading down but the arguments against Curry aren't very good IMO.


PhilFree:arrow:

The arguments for Curry aren't good either. People are suggesting he could be the next SHAWN MERRIMAN. How realistic is that?

Curry had 29.5 tkls for loss and 5.5 sacks in his final 2 seasons, when he started every game. Merriman had 17 sacks and 26.5 tfl in his final two seasons, despite being hampered by injuries and only starting 5 games in his first season.

Nobody has said Curry has never crossed the line of scrimmage, but chasing down a QB after a play break down or grabbing a HB on a run blitz IS NOT the same thing as rushing the passer.

To act like Curry is just going to smoothly and quietly make the transition to NFL pass rusher is absolutely ridiculous.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 09:33 AM
Gholston was very inconsistent, disappeared in games and there are questions about his intelligence.

Are you trying to say that every athletic collegiate player is going to fail in the NFL?

Of course not.

The arguments for Curry have reached Mike Peterson proportions.

Chiefnj2
04-02-2009, 09:43 AM
Of course not.

The arguments for Curry have reached Mike Peterson proportions.

No they haven't. The arguments against Curry have reached code red on the idiot scale, especially considering half the people that criticize Curry admit that KC should take him if they can't trade down. The people defending Curry generally realize he's a top rated pick, that he'll likely be a very good LB, and because of his athleticism and play to date think he might be able to develop into a decent pass rusher if that's how his NFL team decides to use him.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 09:54 AM
No they haven't. The arguments against Curry have reached code red on the idiot scale, especially considering half the people that criticize Curry admit that KC should take him if they can't trade down. The people defending Curry generally realize he's a top rated pick, that he'll likely be a very good LB, and because of his athleticism and play to date think he might be able to develop into a decent pass rusher if that's how his NFL team decides to use him.

Yes, they have.

He's been compared to Derrick Thomas and Shawn Merriman. That's ridiculous.

I'm one of those that would be OK with Curry if they can't trade down, but in no way should he be their first choice.

The people defending Curry realize he's a top-rated pick - so do I. But the suggestion is that he'll be a GREAT LB, a "dominant" LB, not just a very good one. Even I think he can be good, but they're putting unrealistic expectations on a rookie and that's the same for any player.

And no, most have NOT said he MIGHT be a DECENT pass rusher. They've said he WILL BE a GOOD pass rusher. There's a world of difference between the two, and you know it.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 09:57 AM
Anyway, I've GOT to stop arguing about Curry. It's not worth it.

With any luck, he'll go to some other team and we won't be here 4 years from now talking about he never lived up to the hype like Derrick Johnson.

Saccopoo
04-02-2009, 11:09 AM
Like I stated, I wouldn't be upset if the Chiefs take Curry. And I hope that they do NOT try to turn him into a pass rusher versus what he is - a potential contributor in the same mold as Pat Willis and Derrick Brooks in a MLB spot. It would be a complete waste of his skills, size, speed and instincts to have him on the ROLB spot and just rush the passer. I am tired of the general incompetence that the Chiefs have had at the MLB for a long time - so long and so incompetent that I consider Mike Mazlowski to be one of our better MLB's in the past 20 years.

Aaron Curry is not going to cure all of our ills on the defense by himself. Jared Allen had little impact in the overall scheme of things and I consider him to be the most complete DE currently in the NFL. We need more parts than just Aaron Curry. However, finding a guy who can be the leader of this defense, the quarterback on that side of the ball and play to a level that is in the top 10% of his position in the league, I would be more than elated.

Next season, when we will most likely have a decently high draft pick, look at taking someone like George Selvie to be that dominant edge rusher. Baby steps friends, baby steps.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 11:39 AM
Like I stated, I wouldn't be upset if the Chiefs take Curry. And I hope that they do NOT try to turn him into a pass rusher versus what he is - a potential contributor in the same mold as Pat Willis and Derrick Brooks in a MLB spot. It would be a complete waste of his skills, size, speed and instincts to have him on the ROLB spot and just rush the passer. I am tired of the general incompetence that the Chiefs have had at the MLB for a long time - so long and so incompetent that I consider Mike Mazlowski to be one of our better MLB's in the past 20 years.

Aaron Curry is not going to cure all of our ills on the defense by himself. Jared Allen had little impact in the overall scheme of things and I consider him to be the most complete DE currently in the NFL. We need more parts than just Aaron Curry. However, finding a guy who can be the leader of this defense, the quarterback on that side of the ball and play to a level that is in the top 10% of his position in the league, I would be more than elated.

Next season, when we will most likely have a decently high draft pick, look at taking someone like George Selvie to be that dominant edge rusher. Baby steps friends, baby steps.

:clap:

The Bad Guy
04-02-2009, 03:19 PM
Like I stated, I wouldn't be upset if the Chiefs take Curry. And I hope that they do NOT try to turn him into a pass rusher versus what he is - a potential contributor in the same mold as Pat Willis and Derrick Brooks in a MLB spot. It would be a complete waste of his skills, size, speed and instincts to have him on the ROLB spot and just rush the passer. I am tired of the general incompetence that the Chiefs have had at the MLB for a long time - so long and so incompetent that I consider Mike Mazlowski to be one of our better MLB's in the past 20 years.

Aaron Curry is not going to cure all of our ills on the defense by himself. Jared Allen had little impact in the overall scheme of things and I consider him to be the most complete DE currently in the NFL. We need more parts than just Aaron Curry. However, finding a guy who can be the leader of this defense, the quarterback on that side of the ball and play to a level that is in the top 10% of his position in the league, I would be more than elated.

Next season, when we will most likely have a decently high draft pick, look at taking someone like George Selvie to be that dominant edge rusher. Baby steps friends, baby steps.

Great post.

Everyone on here wants to find the next DT just because they have an LB position.

LB's do more than rush the passer.

I don't want Curry to rush the passer. I want him to be a stud stopping the run. I want him to blanket the guy he's covering.

Tribal Warfare
04-02-2009, 03:25 PM
I don't want Curry to rush the passer. I want him to be a stud stopping the run. I want him to blanket the guy he's covering.

If KC was running a 4-3, I'd agree with you but the LBs in the 3-4 are very scheme specific. If KC was running a 3-4 4 years ago when DJ came up, he wouldn't fit what KC would be looking for and would've been passed up. This is the same situation with Curry great 4-3 LB, but very iffy lining up in a 3-4.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 03:27 PM
Great post.

Everyone on here wants to find the next DT just because they have an LB position.

LB's do more than rush the passer.

I don't want Curry to rush the passer. I want him to be a stud stopping the run. I want him to blanket the guy he's covering.

That's what I'd want him for too.

But I don't necessarily want the #3 overall pick to do those things unless there's no other choice.

philfree
04-02-2009, 06:21 PM
Great post.

Everyone on here wants to find the next DT just because they have an LB position.

LB's do more than rush the passer.

I don't want Curry to rush the passer. I want him to be a stud stopping the run. I want him to blanket the guy he's covering.


I was in the process of posting something similar to this and my CP funked out. Draft Curry for what all the great things he does and then if it turns out he rush the passer that's a bonus. And remember that there are no DTs in this draft or elite pass rushers period.


PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 06:40 PM
I was in the process of posting something similar to this and my CP funked out. Draft Curry for what all the great things he does and then if it turns out he rush the passer that's a bonus. And remember that there are no DTs in this draft or elite pass rushers period.


PhilFree:arrow:

By all means, draft him for all the great things he does.

AFTER TRADING DOWN.

KCrockaholic
04-02-2009, 06:44 PM
By all means, draft him for all the great things he does.

AFTER TRADING DOWN.

I didnt want to post again...but if I felt we could get him after we trade down I would be all for it. I just dont see why the Browns wouldnt draft him, If we passed on him after 3.

htismaqe
04-02-2009, 06:46 PM
I didnt want to post again...but if I felt we could get him after we trade down I would be all for it. I just dont see why the Browns wouldnt draft him, If we passed on him after 3.

So let the Browns be that team then.

If Stafford or Sanchez (or both) are there when we pick, we have a myriad of possibilities, all of which are better than taking Curry at #3.

Tribal Warfare
04-02-2009, 06:47 PM
I didnt want to post again...but if I felt we could get him after we trade down I would be all for it. I just dont see why the Browns wouldnt draft him, If we passed on him after 3.

another thing working against KC drafting Curry, is stock loading picks that's been a staple of the Pats Belichick era. I see KC wheeling and dealing out of the top 10 possibly.

KCrockaholic
04-02-2009, 06:54 PM
another thing working against KC drafting Curry, is stock loading picks that's been a staple of the Pats Belichick era. I see KC wheeling and dealing out of the top 10 possibly.

If they get out of the top 10 I really hope we find a way to get Everette Brown. His value in the 10-20 range would be very good.

Coogs
04-02-2009, 07:45 PM
If they get out of the top 10 I really hope we find a way to get Everette Brown. His value in the 10-20 range would be very good.

Saw a mock draft on NFL Live today by Kiper. He had Brown going at #29 IIRC.

KCrockaholic
04-02-2009, 08:00 PM
Saw a mock draft on NFL Live today by Kiper. He had Brown going at #29 IIRC.

Really? Well if it was Kiper's mock I wouldnt put to much into it. Kiper is just plain sad. 29 would be ridiculous.