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View Full Version : Royals Hochevar or Bannister


DrRyan
03-28-2009, 08:33 PM
I realize most of you don't care, for the KC baseball fans, give me the inside scoop on who the Royals fifth starter is likely to be. Luke Hochevar or Brian Bannister?

beavis
03-28-2009, 08:34 PM
From what I've read, it's Hoch and it's not even close.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Bannister has been teh suck this spring training.

DrRyan
03-28-2009, 08:35 PM
Sweet, and you just got that to me before my last round pick in my fantasy league. Thanks mate!

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 08:37 PM
8.53 ERA in 12.2 innings. 17 hits and 12 earned runs.

Yikes, Bannister.

beavis
03-28-2009, 08:40 PM
8.53 ERA in 12.2 innings. 17 hits and 12 earned runs.

Yikes, Bannister.

Yeah, I think he's done.

Kind of wish we would have gotten something for him after that one decent season he had.

Dr. Facebook Fever
03-28-2009, 08:44 PM
Hoch. Can't believe how bad Banny has been.

DJ's left nut
03-28-2009, 09:06 PM
Shouldn't be the question.

Hocahevar is easily your 4th. The question is who is your 5th? Bannister or Horacio Ramirez (or possibly Ponson).

Ramirez sucks more than anything in the history of man. The only things that could possibly challenge him are hangovers and Sydney Ponson.

Give the 5th starters gig to Bannister, euthanize Ramirez and sell tickets to Sidney Ponson freakshow out in the cheap seats. Put him under strict orders not to eat any children.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 09:13 PM
Shouldn't be the question.

Hocahevar is easily your 4th. The question is who is your 5th? Bannister or Horacio Ramirez (or possibly Ponson).

Ramirez sucks more than anything in the history of man. The only things that could possibly challenge him are hangovers and Sydney Ponson.

Give the 5th starters gig to Bannister, euthanize Ramirez and sell tickets to Sidney Ponson freakshow out in the cheap seats. Put him under strict orders not to eat any children.

The fact that Ramirez is in the mix indicates how desperate the ML team is for left-handed talent.

DJ's left nut
03-28-2009, 09:21 PM
The fact that Ramirez is in the mix indicates how desperate the ML team is for left-handed talent.

I'm still working on my wife with this. I'm trying to convince her that we should just sever our first-born's right arm just to lock up my retirement. Sure, we could leave his right arm on there, but that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

I figure if he lives to see 30, some major league team will sign him.

The idea that an MLB roster 'needs a LH starter' is so outdated it's hysterical. With 32 MLB teams, there are probably 30 fewer legitimate MLB caliber starting pitchers than there are jobs for them. When that's the case, you don't need LH starters, you need capable starters...period.

The Royals do not have that and most certainly WILL not have that with Horacio Ramirez on their 25 man. Just another million+ that Moore threw at a hideous player, only to cry poor later on.

CHENZ A!
03-28-2009, 09:22 PM
Anyone know who looks likely to start the HOME opener? I sure hope it's Meche or Greinke.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 09:24 PM
I'm still working on my wife with this. I'm trying to convince her that we should just sever our first-born's right arm just to lock up my retirement. Sure, we could leave his right arm on there, but that's not a risk I'm willing to take.

I figure if he lives to see 30, some major league team will sign him.

The idea that an MLB roster 'needs a LH starter' is so outdated it's hysterical. With 32 MLB teams, there are probably 30 fewer legitimate MLB caliber starting pitchers than there are jobs for them. When that's the case, you don't need LH starters, you need capable starters...period.

The Royals do not have that and most certainly WILL not have that with Horacio Ramirez on their 25 man. Just another million+ that Moore threw at a hideous player, only to cry poor later on.

During the regular season, I don't disagree with this argument at all, though a lefty would be nice, given the specific bats in the AL central.

In a playoff series, however, I think it's important to be able to turn a team around, but, of course, not just any scrub will do.

DJ's left nut
03-28-2009, 09:31 PM
During the regular season, I don't disagree with this argument at all, though a lefty would be nice, given the specific bats in the AL central.

In a playoff series, however, I think it's important to be able to turn a team around, but, of course, not just any scrub will do.

LHRP is far more important than a LH starter.

You can change types of RHSPs and accomplish the same effect as putting in a lefty. Throw a sinker/slider pitcher after a fastball/curveball pitcher and you've got their eye levels all changed up. You've changed their bat speeds and you've messed with their timing.

A lefty is a luxery, not a necessity. It's great to have a plus lefty on your roster, but he needs to be a good pitcher that happens to be lefthanded. You can't run a lefty just for the sake of turning a team around. That's what LOOGIES are for.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 09:42 PM
LHRP is far more important than a LH starter.

You can change types of RHSPs and accomplish the same effect as putting in a lefty. Throw a sinker/slider pitcher after a fastball/curveball pitcher and you've got their eye levels all changed up. You've changed their bat speeds and you've messed with their timing.

A lefty is a luxery, not a necessity. It's great to have a plus lefty on your roster, but he needs to be a good pitcher that happens to be lefthanded. You can't run a lefty just for the sake of turning a team around. That's what LOOGIES are for.

Again, I agree with the notion of needing high-quality players. True in all aspects of the game.

But you're smoking the good stuff if you think changing types of rhp has the same type of impact. We're talking about more than just simply disrupting timing, which is any pitcher's goal. Fundamentally sound batters never change eye level or vary bat speed. It's all about when the trigger mechanism occurs and getting someone out on his front foot.

If you're facing elite level left-handed batters, they'll smile all day as you continue to trot out the righties. Plus, it allows a level of consistency with batters that doesn't bode well for the opposition in series play.

clyde05
03-28-2009, 09:46 PM
Anyone know who looks likely to start the HOME opener? I sure hope it's Meche or Greinke.

they have already announced that meche will start the season but thats not our home opener

Coach
03-28-2009, 09:51 PM
Hochevar. Kid needs all the reps to gain more experience.

CHENZ A!
03-28-2009, 09:58 PM
they have already announced that meche will start the season but thats not our home opener

Thanks man. I was aware of that, just not sure who is in line to start the HOME opener, since there are some off days mixed in there, the Royals likely will not be in a 5 man rotation yet.

Coach
03-28-2009, 10:03 PM
Thanks man. I was aware of that, just not sure who is in line to start the HOME opener, since there are some off days mixed in there, the Royals likely will not be in a 5 man rotation yet.

I would guess Meche, since there is a off day between the season opener and the 2nd game against the White Suck.

Deberg_1990
03-28-2009, 10:23 PM
What happened to Bannister? Was he just a flash in the pan 2 years ago??

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:31 PM
What happened to Bannister? Was he just a flash in the pan 2 years ago??

He was a statistical anomaly.

I forget the specifics, and I'm too lazy to look it up, but I'm almost positive he led the league in ground ball and fly ball outs. Essentially, everything that was hit found a fielder.

This shit can't keep up for long. Law of averages.

I expected for him to find a middle ground this year, but it could be that his stuff just isn't that good.

alnorth
03-28-2009, 10:43 PM
What happened to Bannister? Was he just a flash in the pan 2 years ago??

Looks like it. He had a crazy-low BABIP that year. (Batting Average for Balls In Play) One of the very basic laws of Sabermetrics is that all pitchers, whether they are great multi-year All-Stars or total washed-up pieces of crap, should have the same BABIP. The great pitchers will have fewer balls in play and don't give up as many home runs, but once the ball is struck there isn't much difference between any of them as far as whether the batter will reach safely or not. (There is some thought that knuckleball pitchers and submarine pitchers may have a lower average BABIP)

The league average is usually around .300, but Brian Bannister somehow managed to have a .264. It's one of the big red flags among stat geeks to identify whether a pitcher had a very lucky or unlucky year. As predicted, Bannister regressed with a vengeance in 2008, turning in a worse-than-average .315 BABIP in 2008 (so, basically an "unlucky" year).

Fish
03-28-2009, 10:53 PM
Hochevar. Kid needs all the reps to gain more experience.

I can't believe this kid might have a chance to produce. Imagine it... an actual KC draft pick(sortof) really becoming a rotational pitcher....

Unthinkable...

DJ's left nut
03-28-2009, 10:54 PM
I can't believe this kid might have a chance to produce. Imagine it... an actual KC draft pick(sortof) really becoming a rotational pitcher....

Unthinkable...

Of course it comes with a caveat -- they could've had Lincecum or Kershaw.

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:55 PM
I can't believe this kid might have a chance to produce. Imagine it... an actual KC draft pick(sortof) really becoming a rotational pitcher....

Unthinkable...

Two of 'em. ZG, too.

At least they didn't end up with Brad Lincoln, who, by accounts, was receiving serious consideration.

Deberg_1990
03-28-2009, 10:56 PM
Imagine it... an actual KC draft pick(sortof) really becoming a rotational pitcher....

Unthinkable...

Zach Grienke doesnt ring a bell?

But yea, before him, there was a huge gap in KC drafted pitching talent for 10-15 years. Incredible.

Fish
03-28-2009, 10:57 PM
Two of 'em. ZG, too.

At least they didn't end up with Brad Lincoln, who, by accounts, was receiving serious consideration.

Unthinkable!

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 10:58 PM
Unthinkable!

I know.

We're a real, ML franchise! Nice to see it return to town.

Fish
03-28-2009, 10:59 PM
I've almost become overconfident in the pitching trades lately. What a different feeling. This season should be interesting...

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 11:10 PM
I've almost become overconfident in the pitching trades lately. What a different feeling. This season should be interesting...

What's got you particularly interested?

I was in the minority, I believe, about being in favor of the Jacobs trade--trading middle relievers doesn't bother me in the least--and this guy has my interest piqued. Great spring training, thus far for him.

Fish
03-28-2009, 11:18 PM
What's got you particularly interested?

I was in the minority, I believe, about being in favor of the Jacobs trade--trading middle relievers doesn't bother me in the least--and this guy has my interest piqued. Great spring training, thus far for him.

I've just been very happy with the way the pitching has been handled the last few seasons. And I've been wrong about a few of the latest pitching acquisitions, so I've been giving Moore some slack on pitching decisions.

Jacobs has me intrigued too..

DeezNutz
03-28-2009, 11:22 PM
I've just been very happy with the way the pitching has been handled the last few seasons. And I've been wrong about a few of the latest pitching acquisitions, so I've been giving Moore some slack on pitching decisions.

Jacobs has me intrigued too..

McClure is nails, and Moore seems to have the golden touch when it comes to assembling a pen, so I agree completely.

I'm really, really hopeful about what Seitzer might be able to bring to the table.

Fish
03-28-2009, 11:28 PM
McClure is nails, and Moore seems to have the golden touch when it comes to assembling a pen, so I agree completely.

I'm really, really hopeful about what Seitzer might be able to bring to the table.

Seitzer seems a little crazy, but very intelligent about how to swing the stick. I hope his method works. I have no doubt he knows what he's talking about.

Some guys have been cranking the shit out of it at times so far.... so let's see what happens...

WilliamTheIrish
03-29-2009, 09:39 AM
Their hand has been forced by Bannister. He's been worse than horrible. It's sort of a Meche and Grienke and pray for Rain(ke).

Put Hoch out there and see if we can play 5 and fly.

WilliamTheIrish
03-29-2009, 09:42 AM
Seitzer seems a little crazy, but very intelligent about how to swing the stick. I hope his method works. I have no doubt he knows what he's talking about.

Some guys have been cranking the shit out of it at times so far.... so let's see what happens...

I'll say this much: In the games I saw, everybody was swinging well. Right down to Tommy Murphy and Costa. I don't have my scorecards within reach but it seems the batters were patient, but drew few walks. In each of the games I saw the Royals had a minimum of 13 hits.
Of course, it's spring and that means nothing when the real bullets start flying.