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Detoxing
03-30-2009, 11:04 AM
Basically, I'm tired of being another small guy. I'm 5 9" 145lbs. Im skinny and looking to add muscle mass. I've been working out a lot lately and am seeing pretty good results but would like to see better results faster (doesn't everyone?). I'm not looking to get buff, i don't think my frame would allow it. I'm looking to have great muscle tone and be overall healthy.

Any tips? Any good excercises that don't require weights etc? What are some good beginner supplements? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Delano
03-30-2009, 11:07 AM
Are you on protein supplementation?

Otter
03-30-2009, 11:07 AM
If you have the money it's well worth it to pay for the services of a GOOD personal trainer. Eating right and using the correct form, techniques and exercises are a foundation they can help you with immensely.

ferrarispider95
03-30-2009, 11:09 AM
Muscle mass, lots of protein, heavy weights, reps in the 8-12 range, could go lower, but not higher.

You want to break apart the muscle to rebuild it bigger. Drink lots of water and will need to eat a lot more than you are accustomed to.

luv
03-30-2009, 11:12 AM
I want to see someone tell you how to gain muscle without using weights.

SBK
03-30-2009, 11:13 AM
Read this.
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

Kyle DeLexus
03-30-2009, 11:13 AM
high protein diet, pushups and pullups are your best bet with no weights. Make sure you eat a lot to build muscle.

keg in kc
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
Antifreeze.

ferrarispider95
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I want to see someone tell you how to gain muscle without using weights.

push ups, pulls up, up and downs, lots of other ways

basically just using your body as the weight

Mr. Krab
03-30-2009, 11:14 AM
I want to see someone tell you how to gain muscle without using weights.
You can, it will just be lean,long muscles.

Cave Johnson
03-30-2009, 11:15 AM
Read this.
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

I love how the guy on the right towers over the guy on the left.

Kyle DeLexus
03-30-2009, 11:16 AM
You can, it will just be lean,long muscles.

which sounds like what he wants with the not get buff thing.

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 11:17 AM
HGH.

Gonzo
03-30-2009, 11:18 AM
HGH.

Muscle Milk!!!!

Protein Bars!!!

Atrophed Testicles!

epitome1170
03-30-2009, 11:20 AM
Eat a lot... Probably close to 6000 calories/day (w/ high protein(. (Obviously depends on your cardio that you incorporate into it.)

Also, it is virtually impossible to lose fat at the same time you are building muscle so be prepared to have to build muscle then cycle to a lower calorie high protein diet to get rid of excess fat.

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 11:21 AM
www.bodybuilding.com (http://www.bodybuilding.com)

www.elitefitness.com (http://www.elitefitness.com)

If you're a beginner I HIGHLY suggest using the Rippetoe workout. If you follow it I guarantee you will get results, especially given your frame.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 11:24 AM
This is all great info. Thank you

Gonzo
03-30-2009, 11:25 AM
This is all great info. Thank you

Whey maybe?

I dunno, I've never had a problem gaining, just losing. Asshole!

ROFL

Tribal Warfare
03-30-2009, 11:27 AM
1st how old are you, because if you are past 26 years old then you are SOL if you want to build any muscle without help from harmful supplementation.

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 11:31 AM
1st how old are you, because if you are past 26 years old then you are SOL if you want to build any muscle without help from harmful supplementation.

Dude that is completely false. Are you just making stuff up or trying to be funny?

Count Alex's Losses
03-30-2009, 11:32 AM
Honestly, building muscle is one of the easiest things I've done in my life. It wasn't difficult at all. It just requires hard work. 90 minutes at the gym, three times a week. You could probably just do 60 if you want to. Make sure you drink a quality protein shake afterwards.

I don't even do anything all that complicated. Mostly I just wail on the machines, seven of them. 4 sets of 12 on most of them. On the leg press I do 4x20. I steadily increased the weight I used every 2 weeks or so. I do some minor free weight work.

If you want to get ripped you're gonna have to reduce your body fat percentage and that's harder. You don't sound like you have much fat on you now, though.


1st how old are you, because if you are past 26 years old then you are SOL if you want to build any muscle without help from harmful supplementation.

Yeah, retarded. I'm 27 and had never picked up a dumbbell in my life before last March.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 11:34 AM
Eat a lot... Probably close to 6000 calories/day (w/ high protein(. (Obviously depends on your cardio that you incorporate into it.)

Also, it is virtually impossible to lose fat at the same time you are building muscle so be prepared to have to build muscle then cycle to a lower calorie high protein diet to get rid of excess fat.

That's a lot of cals to take in for a guy that size, although he will get bigger for sure. But you nailed it. It's all about the diet. You need probably closer to 3500-4000 cals to see pretty good results. Try to eat 6 meals a day about 600 cals per meal and a ratio of 50% carbs/30%protein/20% fats to keep the weight gain somewhat lean.

Count Alex's Losses
03-30-2009, 11:34 AM
Also, it is virtually impossible to lose fat at the same time you are building muscle

Also bullshit.

DaKCMan AP
03-30-2009, 11:37 AM
Also, it is virtually impossible to lose fat at the same time you are building muscle

Not true. While I am focusing on reducing body fat % I am also building muscle.

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 11:40 AM
Not true. While I am focusing on reducing body fat % I am also building muscle.

And it really wouldn't be a stretch at all for a gym noob to get stronger and lose fat at the same time. That's actually pretty common if he's working out the right way and eating well.

It's amazing how much misinformation there is when it comes to working out.

epitome1170
03-30-2009, 11:41 AM
Not true. While I am focusing on reducing body fat % I am also building muscle.


Not true... what does it take to lose fat... a negative balance in calories. What does it take to BUILD muscles... an excess balance in calories. The two contradict just a little.

You are not building muscle when you are losing body fat... you are toning. You can get stronger, but not BUILD muscle.

epitome1170
03-30-2009, 11:43 AM
I didn't say get stronger... I said build muscle... a common misnomer.

DaKCMan AP
03-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Not true... what does it take to lose fat... a negative balance in calories. What does it take to BUILD muscles... an excess balance in calories. The two contradict just a little.

You are not building muscle when you are losing body fat... you are toning. You can get stronger, but not BUILD muscle.

So you are saying that while I am reducing my body fat percentage (losing fat) and at the same time maintaining the same weight that I'm not building muscle?

Brock
03-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Not true... what does it take to lose fat... a negative balance in calories. What does it take to BUILD muscles... an excess balance in calories. The two contradict just a little.

You are not building muscle when you are losing body fat... you are toning. You can get stronger, but not BUILD muscle.

That's completely wrong.

Delano
03-30-2009, 11:44 AM
Aren't pilates and some types of Yoga designed to build muscle without weights?

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 11:47 AM
I didn't say get stronger... I said build muscle... a common misnomer.

Huh? By getting stronger you are building muscle.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 11:53 AM
Well, i have a pair of 12 lb dumbbells, a stair master, and an ab lounge at home. All recent investments in an attempt to get in shape. I don't use the stair master very much because now i just ride my bike through the hills everyday on my way to work.

I'm 24 yrs old and really don't have much of any body fat.

There is so much misinformation out there. I want to make sure I am doing this right so that i'm not wasting my time. I'm going to GNC in a few hours for vitamins at least. Someone mentioned Whey and im going to pick that up as well. Any other recomendations?

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 11:54 AM
Well, i have a pair of 12 lb dumbbells, a stair master, and an ab lounge at home. All recent investments in an attempt to get in shape. I don't use the stair master very much because now i just ride my bike through the hills everyday on my way to work.

I'm 24 yrs old and really don't have much of any body fat.

There is so much misinformation out there. I want to make sure I am doing this right so that i'm not wasting my time. I'm going to GNC in a few hours for vitamins at least. Someone mentioned Whey and im going to pick that up as well. Any other recomendations?

You're wasting your money if you buy supplements and only use a stair master and some 12 lb. dumbbells.

Save the supplement money and go buy a gym membership.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 11:55 AM
I didn't say get stronger... I said build muscle... a common misnomer.

If you would have said gain weight and drop body fat % then you would have been more accurate. It's very difficult to naturally put on body weight and drop your BF%, that's why there is a bulking season and a cutting season for bodybuilders.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 11:55 AM
Well, i have a pair of 12 lb dumbbells, a stair master, and an ab lounge at home. All recent investments in an attempt to get in shape. I don't use the stair master very much because now i just ride my bike through the hills everyday on my way to work.

I'm 24 yrs old and really don't have much of any body fat.

There is so much misinformation out there. I want to make sure I am doing this right so that i'm not wasting my time. I'm going to GNC in a few hours for vitamins at least. Someone mentioned Whey and im going to pick that up as well. Any other recomendations?

Oh, and I've always had problems gaining weight, never really any issues getting rid of it. Due to my frame, it's not that difficult for me to look cut. But i actually want to be strong.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 11:57 AM
You're wasting your money if you buy supplements and only use a stair master and some 12 lb. dumbbells.

Save the supplement money and go buy a gym membership.


This.

But if you insist on buying something I would buy weight gainer and whey protein. Screw the vitamins you don't absorb them anyways. Get those from a solid diet.

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 11:58 AM
Save the supplement money and go buy a gym membership.

This.

Being in a competitive environment is a great motivational tool. It also helps if there's some decent looking strange walking around.

Cave Johnson
03-30-2009, 11:59 AM
Well, i have a pair of 12 lb dumbbells, a stair master, and an ab lounge at home. All recent investments in an attempt to get in shape. I don't use the stair master very much because now i just ride my bike through the hills everyday on my way to work.

I'm 24 yrs old and really don't have much of any body fat.

There is so much misinformation out there. I want to make sure I am doing this right so that i'm not wasting my time. I'm going to GNC in a few hours for vitamins at least. Someone mentioned Whey and im going to pick that up as well. Any other recomendations?

No disrespect, but you can't expect to put on much muscle mass with 12s. If you decide to continue the at home route, a good start is a multi-position bench, spin-lock dumbbells, and plates from 2.5 to 20 lbs.

Personally, I prefer the gym route because changing dumbbell weights is a serious PITA.

Spicy McHaggis
03-30-2009, 11:59 AM
push ups, pulls up, up and downs, lots of other ways

basically just using your body as the weight

I was in the best shape of my life just doing body weight type exercises in addition to my normal cardio. Not necessarily "big" but it was perfect for what I was training for.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 12:00 PM
This.

But if you insist on buying something I would buy weight gainer and whey protein. Screw the vitamins you don't absorb them anyways. Get those from a solid diet.

I'll Just buy the whey then. And those 12 lb weights make a good diff. ATM

RippedmyFlesh
03-30-2009, 12:00 PM
Never saw anyone who DIDN'T lift look this ripped. So I guess its possible without weights.

Paul Harris’ workout secrets
The Orange forward dishes about his workout secrets, including why he doesn't lift weights.
http://scottwdw.smugmug.com/photos/473592156_sVvDq-M.jpg

Delano
03-30-2009, 12:01 PM
IIRC, Jamal Lewis didn't lift weights either.

luv
03-30-2009, 12:03 PM
Aren't pilates and some types of Yoga designed to build muscle without weights?

I need to look more into Yoga. I've heard it's a great workout, along with getting yourself mentally centered.

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Before a fight with Holyfield, Foreman said his training primarily consisted of push ups and chopping wood.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 12:04 PM
Never saw anyone who DIDN'T lift look this ripped. So I guess its possible without weights.

Paul Harris’ workout secrets
The Orange forward dishes about his workout secrets, including why he doesn't lift weights.
http://scottwdw.smugmug.com/photos/473592156_sVvDq-M.jpg

He doesn't look like he lifts either.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 12:05 PM
Before a fight with Holyfield, Foreman said his training primarily consisted of push ups and chopping wood.

I believe Rocky Balboa also utilized these techniques before battling the great Ivan Drago.

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 12:05 PM
I'll Just buy the whey then. And those 12 lb weights make a good diff. ATM

I've never seen 12's help with pron.

Wait, what type of 12's are we talking about?

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 12:07 PM
I believe Rocky Balboa also utilized these techniques before battling the great Ivan Drago.

True.

In addition to the gym, I'd recommend running up a snowy mountain. And then yell. This is the key that many forget.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 12:07 PM
I'll Just buy the whey then. And those 12 lb weights make a good diff. ATM

I think GNC has a buy 1 get 1 half off on their brand (Pro Performance). So if you got the money I would add the weight gainer too. It really sounds like you need to add some cals to your diet. Food is the ideal way to go, but the drinks are an okay second option.

RippedmyFlesh
03-30-2009, 12:08 PM
a better pic
http://blog.syracuse.com/today/2009/03/large_Paul_Harris_031409.jpg

Ive seen him in person he's as ripped as any guy in any gym around here lifting like theres no tomorrow.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 12:10 PM
I've never seen 12's help with pron.

Wait, what type of 12's are we talking about?

Hand held dumbbells. I do curls with 'em.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 12:10 PM
A lot of curls

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 12:12 PM
True.

In addition to the gym, I'd recommend running up a snowy mountain. And then yell. This is the key that many forget.

And if you have a fat ass brother in law, have him sit on a sled and try to pull him in 2 feet of snow.

http://www.metacafe.com/watch/104400/rocky_iv_training_montage/

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 12:13 PM
a better pic
http://blog.syracuse.com/today/2009/03/large_Paul_Harris_031409.jpg

Ive seen him in person he's as ripped as any guy in any gym around here lifting like theres no tomorrow.

That's better. He probably has great genetics which certainly helps.

Simplex3
03-30-2009, 12:15 PM
Read this.
http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

His transformation basically consists of tanning and shaving. :shrug:

RippedmyFlesh
03-30-2009, 12:18 PM
That's better. He probably has great genetics which certainly helps.
I agree 100% we prob all have grown up with some guy who just eats what he wants and still looks ripped. Cant beat good genes.

Simplex3
03-30-2009, 12:29 PM
I'm going to climb on board the "get a gym membership" suggestion. I know you think you have equipment at home, but it isn't the same thing for many reasons. Here's my home setup:

Full cage with high/low pulley
Incline/decline bench
Olympic barbell, ez-curl bar, leg attachment
500lbs of Olympic plates
Hex dumbbells in pairs from 15lb to 95lbs in 5lb increments
Treadmill
Rowing machine (that I sold)
80lb heavy bag (that I returned to my uncle)
More handles and attachments than you can shake a stick at

Needless to say, I had plenty of gear. Probably somewhere in the $5k+ range.

In January I joined a boxing gym up the street from my house. In less than three months my conditioning has improved ten-fold. Having the instructors there to show you what to do and how to do it helps, but so does having other people around to push you. On days when I'm feeling like slacking I look around and see someone else pushing it and step it up. If I don't then the instructor will be by shortly to get on my case.

One of the big things that people don't consider, though, is the mental part of it. My mind and body are conditioned that when I step into the gym it is time to get it on. That's especially hard to do at home, even if you have a room dedicated as a gym, which I do.

If you know anyone looking to buy a bunch of equipment let me know. The treadmill isn't for sale but everything else is.

Fish
03-30-2009, 12:46 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/hershelwalker.jpg

0 weights.

Herschel Walker never lifted weights, but looking at him you would never guess that fact. The reason? The best exercise (http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/recommends/7minute) is often resistance against your own body, and aside from the obvious running and sprinting, Walker’s entire workout consisted of only three exercises:


1. Sit Ups
2. Push Ups
3. Chin Ups


Walker’s work out is a staggering 2,500 sit ups and 1,500 push ups a day. Those numbers are right. 2,500 sit ups & 1,500 push ups every 24 hours. That definitely proves that Walker’s body isn’t just for show: those muscles know how to work. Walker’s philosophy on working out is simple: start every day very early in the morning before the distractions of the day come around, and do that work out without quitting every single day, 365 days a year, 366 on leap years, no matter what.


http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/bodybuilding/herschel-walker-workout-herschel-walker-exercise/

DeezNutz
03-30-2009, 12:48 PM
1500 push ups per day is sick.

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 12:49 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/hershelwalker.jpg

0 weights.

Herschel Walker never lifted weights, but looking at him you would never guess that fact. The reason? The best exercise (http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/recommends/7minute) is often resistance against your own body, and aside from the obvious running and sprinting, Walker’s entire workout consisted of only three exercises:


1. Sit Ups
2. Push Ups
3. Chin Ups


Walker’s work out is a staggering 2,500 sit ups and 1,500 push ups a day. Those numbers are right. 2,500 sit ups & 1,500 push ups every 24 hours. That definitely proves that Walker’s body isn’t just for show: those muscles know how to work. Walker’s philosophy on working out is simple: start every day very early in the morning before the distractions of the day come around, and do that work out without quitting every single day, 365 days a year, 366 on leap years, no matter what.


http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/bodybuilding/herschel-walker-workout-herschel-walker-exercise/

KC IIRC he started lifting in college

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 12:50 PM
http://scienceblogs.com/omnibrain/hershelwalker.jpg

0 weights.

Herschel Walker never lifted weights, but looking at him you would never guess that fact. The reason? The best exercise (http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/recommends/7minute) is often resistance against your own body, and aside from the obvious running and sprinting, Walker’s entire workout consisted of only three exercises:


1. Sit Ups
2. Push Ups
3. Chin Ups


Walker’s work out is a staggering 2,500 sit ups and 1,500 push ups a day. Those numbers are right. 2,500 sit ups & 1,500 push ups every 24 hours. That definitely proves that Walker’s body isn’t just for show: those muscles know how to work. Walker’s philosophy on working out is simple: start every day very early in the morning before the distractions of the day come around, and do that work out without quitting every single day, 365 days a year, 366 on leap years, no matter what.


http://www.2fit4you.com/index.php/bodybuilding/herschel-walker-workout-herschel-walker-exercise/

Damn. Starting early is a good idea though. I usually start after i get off of work.

petegz28
03-30-2009, 12:52 PM
Creatine

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 12:59 PM
http://mister-olympia.bganzeige.de/wp-content/dianabol.jpg

DaKCMan AP
03-30-2009, 01:00 PM
0 weights.

Herschel Walker never lifted weights,

Maybe Herschel didn't, but what about one of his other personalities?

macdawg
03-30-2009, 01:18 PM
1500 push ups day in day out sounds like a great way to get tendonitis in your shoulders. Any of you actually done this?

Keep in mind excess protein can be harmful, New England Journal of Medicine has several articles about it and says consuming over 30g protein in a sitting does not increase blood amino levels or protein synthesis.

TommyHawk69
03-30-2009, 01:24 PM
Creatine

You have to be careful taking creatine. If you take it long enough your body will stop making it and when you stop taking it you will go to flab.

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 01:25 PM
You have to be careful taking creatine. If you take it long enough your body will stop making it and when you stop taking it you will go to flab.

it just makes you "puffy" anyway.

TommyHawk69
03-30-2009, 01:37 PM
Look I am completely in agreement with the gym membership. Also if you have a friend that will join with you to hold you accountable and you for him. It makes it alot more enjoyable to go. If you want mass/size its all about high weight low reps. You could do five thousand curls with your 12lb dumbells and not accomplish a thing other than a little toning and not much strength increase. Think about it like this if you want to be able to pick up 200lbs do you work out with 12lbs? You also need to be sore after every workout. If you are not then you need to change up your workout cause your body gets used to what you are doing. The soreness is caused by ripping muscle fibers. They repair themselves and grow back stronger and larger. You also need to eat right which is lots of protein and high calories, but good calories. You can do all this without weights but eventually your body gets used to its weight as well and it would take you forever.

TommyHawk69
03-30-2009, 01:38 PM
it just makes you "puffy" anyway.

Exactly it is basically water muscles.

Brock
03-30-2009, 01:39 PM
You have to be careful taking creatine. If you take it long enough your body will stop making it and when you stop taking it you will go to flab.

That's a load of crap.

petegz28
03-30-2009, 01:40 PM
You have to be careful taking creatine. If you take it long enough your body will stop making it and when you stop taking it you will go to flab.

But it will help him buff out along with the protein and such. It just helps your muscles retain water which they are 60% of anyway.

petegz28
03-30-2009, 01:40 PM
Exactly it is basically water muscles.

You rmuscles are 60% water. Which is why bodybuilders suck down gallons of water during each workout. Creatine just helps your muscles retain the water.

TommyHawk69
03-30-2009, 01:55 PM
That's a load of crap.

Ok your right it is:)

TommyHawk69
03-30-2009, 01:56 PM
You rmuscles are 60% water. Which is why bodybuilders suck down gallons of water during each workout. Creatine just helps your muscles retain the water.

Easy come easy go

Brock
03-30-2009, 01:58 PM
Ok your right it is:)

It ranks right up there with "OMGZ creatine ruins your kidneys"

Silock
03-30-2009, 02:03 PM
Eat a lot... Probably close to 6000 calories/day (w/ high protein(. (Obviously depends on your cardio that you incorporate into it.)

Also, it is virtually impossible to lose fat at the same time you are building muscle so be prepared to have to build muscle then cycle to a lower calorie high protein diet to get rid of excess fat.

6000 is way too much. Also, almost impossible to do while maintaining a healthy diet.

Silock
03-30-2009, 02:04 PM
Hand held dumbbells. I do curls with 'em.

Pull ups are much better than curls. Don't do curls.

Silock
03-30-2009, 02:05 PM
1st how old are you, because if you are past 26 years old then you are SOL if you want to build any muscle without help from harmful supplementation.

False. Not even close to true.

Silock
03-30-2009, 02:05 PM
I would suggest the 5x5 if you've been working out for a while. I've never seen anyone not progress while really doing this workout, and most people have their best gains from it. Plus, it's ridiculously simple. But it's not easy.

Brock
03-30-2009, 02:06 PM
False. Not even close to true.

I can't believe how much dumbassery is on exhibit in this thread. :shake:

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 02:08 PM
Pull ups are much better than curls. Don't do curls.

why?

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 02:25 PM
So the question i cant really seem to find an answer for is how long should I let my body heal before working out again? Lets say I work out 30 min a day. Doing a combination of

Crunches
Push Ups
Curls
Chest Flys

How many days should i wait before doing it again?

Brock
03-30-2009, 02:25 PM
How many days should i wait before doing it again?

Wait until the soreness is gone or at least almost gone.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 02:28 PM
Get some roids.

Detoxing
03-30-2009, 02:29 PM
Get some roids.

Damn right.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 02:29 PM
So the question i cant really seem to find an answer for is how long should I let my body heal before working out again? Lets say I work out 30 min a day. Doing a combination of

Crunches
Push Ups
Curls
Chest Flys

How many days should i wait before doing it again?

Crunches and pushups and can be done daily, curls and flys probably 2-3 days a week. But I really suggest you find a gym and start a workout based on compount lifts such as dead lifts, squats and flat bench press.

Kyle DeLexus
03-30-2009, 02:29 PM
Wait until the soreness is gone or at least almost gone.

This. Listen to your body.

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 02:30 PM
Damn right.

Learn to eat and workout or even "roids" won't do you much good.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 02:44 PM
Calories build muscle. I have researched this extremely well. I have read hundreds of Google Scholar articles that show Little or NO PROOF PROTEIN BUIlds muscle. Thick muscles are mainly composed of water! Weird huh. Eat just enough extra calories to make gains in rep range. Eating too much excess will make you make you too fat.

Go with 8-10 rep range. Don't worry about spreading the diet into 6 meals. That doesn't work either.

Too many internet lies and frauds about muscle growth pushed by supplement companies. Keep it 50-50 protein and carbs.

petegz28
03-30-2009, 02:50 PM
Calories build muscle. I have researched this extremely well. I have read hundreds of Google Scholar articles that show Little or NO PROOF PROTEIN BUIlds muscle. Thick muscles are mainly composed of water! Weird huh. Eat just enough extra calories to make gains in rep range. Eating too much excess will make you make you too fat.

Go with 8-10 rep range. Don't worry about spreading the diet into 6 meals. That doesn't work either.

Too many internet lies and frauds about muscle growth pushed by supplement companies. Keep it 50-50 protein and carbs.


Not sure I am buying the whole "protein doesn't buld muscles" argument. Care to post some of these links?

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Not sure I am buying the whole "protein doesn't buld muscles" argument. Care to post some of these links?

google bitch.

Brock
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Calories build muscle. I have researched this extremely well. I have read hundreds of Google Scholar articles that show Little or NO PROOF PROTEIN BUIlds muscle. Thick muscles are mainly composed of water! Weird huh. Eat just enough extra calories to make gains in rep range. Eating too much excess will make you make you too fat.

Go with 8-10 rep range. Don't worry about spreading the diet into 6 meals. That doesn't work either.

Too many internet lies and frauds about muscle growth pushed by supplement companies. Keep it 50-50 protein and carbs.

ROFL

bishop_74
03-30-2009, 02:52 PM
Just ran across this today. VERY interesting article.

http://www.fourhourworkweek.com/blog/2007/04/29/from-geek-to-freak-how-i-gained-34-lbs-of-muscle-in-4-weeks/

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 02:53 PM
Not sure I am buying the whole "protein doesn't buld muscles" argument. Care to post some of these links?

I'll post some studys that says he is wrong.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=114611851

MahiMike
03-30-2009, 02:56 PM
Creatine

I'm surprised it took this long for someone to post this. If you're really skinny, you must use this.

MIAdragon
03-30-2009, 02:56 PM
BigCat what do you think about Dianabol?

BigCatDaddy
03-30-2009, 03:03 PM
BigCat what do you think about Dianabol?

I don't mess with the illegal stuff. I may run an OTC methyl once or twice a year and then a SERM for PCT. It just more of a hobby for me, so I try to avoid the fellonies, that and my wife would kill me. I do hear that test stuff is really fun though :)

Brock
03-30-2009, 03:06 PM
I'm surprised it took this long for someone to post this. If you're really skinny, you must use this.

Meh. It's good stuff, but it's no substitute for heavy iron.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 04:44 PM
I'll post some studys that says he is wrong.

http://forum.bodybuilding.com/showthread.php?t=114611851

Haha. bodybuilding forum. Heart of objectivity there.

Most of the comments are just guesses on recommended amounts.

I actually read research saying that little or no protein builds muscle too with just high carb diet and is based on fact. High carbs were the rage in bodybuilding early in it's history.

eazyb81
03-30-2009, 04:54 PM
Long story short, don't come to Chiefs Planet with your weight lifting questions.

95% of the answers will be completely wrong, but idiots like googlegoogle will argue until they're blue in the face because they have no life.

Jethopper
03-30-2009, 04:56 PM
Protein, Water and sleep are your basic muscle builders.

shitgoose
03-30-2009, 05:08 PM
Couple cycles of Dbol to bulk up and then cut with a cycle or two of winstrol depending on your body type. Lots of weights, water, and no alcohol while you're on the juice.

J/K. You don't need roids. My advice would be to get a gym membership and work with someone on the staff to develop a workout routine and diet that fits what you are trying to accomplish. A trainer can also help you with the machines and free weights if you don't have alot of experience. Nothing is worse than doing the workouts wrong. Set some goals and don't be in any hurry. Like everyone else you want results quick but you definitely don't want to risk injury.

Good Luck

Count Alex's Losses
03-30-2009, 05:58 PM
So the question i cant really seem to find an answer for is how long should I let my body heal before working out again? Lets say I work out 30 min a day. Doing a combination of

Crunches
Push Ups
Curls
Chest Flys

How many days should i wait before doing it again?

I generally work out every other day.

Count Alex's Losses
03-30-2009, 06:00 PM
I would suggest the 5x5 if you've been working out for a while. I've never seen anyone not progress while really doing this workout, and most people have their best gains from it. Plus, it's ridiculously simple. But it's not easy.

How does this work? More weight? I've been doing 4x12 for about a year now.

Simplex3
03-30-2009, 06:19 PM
Get some roids.

Trust me when I tell you to steer clear of anything even resembling steroids.

Jethopper
03-30-2009, 06:38 PM
Trust me when I tell you to steer clear of anything even resembling steroids.

Show me one study that proves the long term effects of steroids...

Buehler445
03-30-2009, 06:42 PM
So the question i cant really seem to find an answer for is how long should I let my body heal before working out again? Lets say I work out 30 min a day. Doing a combination of

Crunches
Push Ups
Curls
Chest Flys

How many days should i wait before doing it again?

If you do arms one day, do legs the next. And stretch the shit out of yourself after the workout and before you go to bed. This will make the soreness much less severe and allow you to get back to work sooner.

JMO

If you are just doing week days, do 2 days of arms and 2 days of legs with cardio and serious abs in the middle day. That will give you 3 days to recover from monday to Thursday and Tuesday to Friday.

stlchiefs
03-30-2009, 08:21 PM
I think GNC has a buy 1 get 1 half off on their brand (Pro Performance). So if you got the money I would add the weight gainer too. It really sounds like you need to add some cals to your diet. Food is the ideal way to go, but the drinks are an okay second option.

Yeah, if you want to get double ripped go to GNC. They'll rip you off too. Talk about overpriced.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 08:24 PM
Long story short, don't come to Chiefs Planet with your weight lifting questions.

95% of the answers will be completely wrong, but idiots like googlegoogle will argue until they're blue in the face because they have no life.

I only talk science and confirmed results. Calories build muscle. You need energy to build muscle. Protein alon wont build anything.

Mecca
03-30-2009, 08:27 PM
Show me one study that proves the long term effects of steroids...

There actually isn't one...

However I wouldn't advise using steroids without someone who knows what they are doing it is a highly anabolic substance that needs to be used properly.

Delano
03-30-2009, 08:31 PM
I only talk science and confirmed results. Calories build muscle. You need energy to build muscle. Protein alon wont build anything.

Can't your body take energy from fat reserves? I'm not sure how that works.

googlegoogle
03-30-2009, 10:02 PM
Can't your body take energy from fat reserves? I'm not sure how that works.

Calorie surplus above normal body weight maintenance adds some fat and muscle.

Calorie deficit under daily body maintenance burns fat and muscle.

Eating only high protein can make you sick and you will have no energy for muscle growth. your body will actually burn the protein for energy. Counterproductive. Carbs provide energy.

If you go to bodybuilding sites then they will even say that carbs are important to spare protein.

Silock
03-30-2009, 10:15 PM
why?

The curl is the only exercise in which biceps are the primary muscle group. Biceps are a stabilizer. I mean, it's okay to work them, but you're not going to increase arm size by doing it.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_no_curl_biceps_program

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_no_curl_biceps_program_part_two

I'm looking for an article I ran across a few months ago, but I can't find it right now. Basically, in a study, two groups of people did two workout routines. The only difference is that one group did bicep curls and the other did not. Both groups increased the size of their arms by the same amount. Adding curls did not increase bicep size nor arm size.

Biceps are a stabilizer muscle. They basically grow proportionally with the rest of your body. The secret to really massive arms is triceps. Triceps are the largest muscle in the arm, and if you want big arms, you need big tris. Tris are much easier to work and respond much better to most exercises because they're a primary muscle and are used in many exercises, like variations on the bench and dips and press.

DomerNKC
03-30-2009, 10:18 PM
Show me one study that proves the long term effects of steroids...Lyle Alzado.

Silock
03-30-2009, 10:21 PM
I have read hundreds of Google Scholar articles that show Little or NO PROOF PROTEIN BUIlds muscle.

Wow.

Just... wow.

You're right, of course, that it takes an excess availability of energy to build muscle, but carbs are not converted to muscle. It just doesn't happen that way.

Now, that being said, there are varying theories on how much protein per pound of lean mass is actually required. I personally try to stick with a ratio of 40% protein, 40% carb, 20% good fat. Some people recommend 1g per pound, some .5g per pound, some as much as 2g per pound. I'm usually around the 1-1.5 range because of my ratios. And my ratios work for me. They may not work for everyone, but it is a good starting point.

Please post just a few of these HUNDREDS of articles. KTHX.

Silock
03-30-2009, 10:23 PM
Lyle Alzado.

Watch Bigger, Faster, Stronger.

Lyle Alzado did not die because of steroids.

That's not to say they don't have negative effects, because anything in excess can.

Personally, I would never touch steroids until I could legally consult with a medical professional about their use. Too many people rely on word of mouth or internet forums for how to properly do a cycle. And then they screw themselves up or don't get the results they should.

Lame.

Silock
03-30-2009, 10:25 PM
How does this work? More weight? I've been doing 4x12 for about a year now.

4x12 is a lot of reps.

But yes, the basic idea is to ramp up the weight you use with each set, so might be doing 100x5, 110x5, 120x5, 130x5 and 140x5 by the time you get to the last set. And each week, you increase the weight just a bit. And there are about three exercises, 5 sets, 3 times per week. It's a quick workout, but effective.

Iowanian
03-30-2009, 11:09 PM
Its too bad Bigdaddy was run off by some dumbf@cks......

You're missing on solid information and cutting through a great cloud of bullshit.

Its amazing how much pure dumbf@ckary is passed as information on this thread.

Count Alex's Losses
03-30-2009, 11:10 PM
And there are about three exercises, 5 sets, 3 times per week. It's a quick workout, but effective.

Eh...I spent 90 minutes in the gym each time. Probably not for me.

petegz28
03-30-2009, 11:13 PM
I like the "Push-Legs\Abs-Pull" routine. 3 times a week..first day you do the Push exercises. That would be your bench press\chest and tricep work for the most part. Skip a day...next day is Legs and Abs...that is pretty much self-explanitory. Skip a day...Third day is your Pull routine which is pretty much your curls and bicep work.

I do 3x12 sets with about 5 exercises. I usually change up 1 of the 5 each week to keep the routine fresh.

And regardless of what you do..make sure you are throwing in at lest a mile of cardio before your workout, if not more. Your heart is a muscle too.

PastorMikH
03-30-2009, 11:14 PM
Its too bad Bigdaddy was run off by some dumbf@cks......

You're missing on solid information and cutting through a great cloud of bullshit.

Its amazing how much pure dumbf@ckary is passed as information on this thread.



I'd still suggest someone looking for advice to send him a PM and ask for help - he answered one of mine about a month after he left.


For those that don't know, Big Daddy has managed several health clubs and is very knowledgeable about effective workouts.

Silock
03-31-2009, 12:18 AM
Eh...I spent 90 minutes in the gym each time. Probably not for me.

Ridiculous. You can take as long as you want. It's not the amount of time... it's the quality of the time.

A good 5x5 followed by 30 minutes of HIIT 3 times per week will put muscle and strength on anyone. And yeah, it might even take you 90 minutes. Maybe 75 if you rush it.

Count Alex's Losses
03-31-2009, 12:20 AM
Ridiculous. You can take as long as you want. It's not the amount of time... it's the quality of the time.

A good 5x5 followed by 30 minutes of HIIT 3 times per week will put muscle and strength on anyone. And yeah, it might even take you 90 minutes. Maybe 75 if you rush it.

I spend 90 just lifting. I might replace my 4x12 freeweight work with your 5x5, though. I'll give it a go.

Silock
03-31-2009, 12:20 AM
I like the "Push-Legs\Abs-Pull" routine. 3 times a week..first day you do the Push exercises. That would be your bench press\chest and tricep work for the most part. Skip a day...next day is Legs and Abs...that is pretty much self-explanitory. Skip a day...Third day is your Pull routine which is pretty much your curls and bicep work.

I do 3x12 sets with about 5 exercises. I usually change up 1 of the 5 each week to keep the routine fresh.

And regardless of what you do..make sure you are throwing in at lest a mile of cardio before your workout, if not more. Your heart is a muscle too.

That's not bad, per se, but studies show that most people will build more muscle by doing workouts 3 times per week on the same body part. That's why total-body workouts are so effective. Recruiting all the major muscle groups 3 times a week just works.

Silock
03-31-2009, 12:29 AM
I spend 90 just lifting. I might replace my 4x12 freeweight work with your 5x5, though. I'll give it a go.

http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Wow, 90 minutes just lifting? WTF are you doing that's taking so long? I guarantee you could make just a few changes and cut your workout in half and make it 50% more effective.

If you're not up for the 5x5 (and yes, you must know how to squat properly and have access to a squat rack for it to work), you could try alternating exercises.

Do bench, rest 30 seconds, then do rows. Rest 30, go back to bench. Repeat the alternating pattern with alternating exercises. The idea is that you can work one set of muscles while the other is recovering. Not only does that speed up your workout, but it gives you a much better overall workout in the process. Better ability to keep your HR up, increased metabolism. It's definitely not for the lazy, though (not saying you are).

I find intense workouts to be so much more personally fulfilling than workouts that take forever to finish.

Count Alex's Losses
03-31-2009, 12:35 AM
Wow, 90 minutes just lifting? WTF are you doing that's taking so long?

I don't really consider 90 minutes to be forever. But I'm doing 4x12 reps of 11 different exercises on 7 different machines, then I'm doing 4x12 reps with three different free-weight exercises. It's not going to take 30 minutes.

Fairplay
03-31-2009, 12:39 AM
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Wow, 90 minutes just lifting? WTF are you doing that's taking so long? I guarantee you could make just a few changes and cut your workout in half and make it 50% more effective.

If you're not up for the 5x5 (and yes, you must know how to squat properly and have access to a squat rack for it to work), you could try alternating exercises.

Do bench, rest 30 seconds, then do rows. Rest 30, go back to bench. Repeat the alternating pattern with alternating exercises. The idea is that you can work one set of muscles while the other is recovering. Not only does that speed up your workout, but it gives you a much better overall workout in the process. Better ability to keep your HR up, increased metabolism. It's definitely not for the lazy, though (not saying you are).

I find intense workouts to be so much more personally fulfilling than workouts that take forever to finish.


I agree, and its great aerobic excercise as well.

Fairplay
03-31-2009, 12:41 AM
Plus, eat 5-6 times a day. Not big meals though.

petegz28
03-31-2009, 12:41 AM
I don't really consider 90 minutes to be forever. But I'm doing 4x12 reps of 11 different exercises on 7 different machines, then I'm doing 4x12 reps with three different free-weight exercises. It's not going to take 30 minutes.

sounds like overkill to me personally. 14 exercises?

Silock
03-31-2009, 01:09 AM
Machines are lame.

Count Alex's Losses
03-31-2009, 01:14 AM
So lame I lost 100 lbs.

Silock
03-31-2009, 01:24 AM
So lame you coulda lost more.

That's not the point. As big as you were, doing anything would work. The problem with machines is that they 1) restrict natural movement, and 2) don't recruit stabilizer muscles. So, not only are machines not allowing your body to move the way it was designed to, but they don't function in three dimensions. They don't force your body to compensate and stabilize itself because the machine is doing it for you.

For example, if you're lifting a free weight above your head, not only must you move it up and down, but you need to keep it from moving side to side and forward and backward. All of that requires stabilizer muscles. Machines eliminate the need for those.

Just think about if all this time you've been working out, you could have increased your performance by 30-40% and lost 30-40% more weight. Wouldn't that be preferable?

Count Alex's Losses
03-31-2009, 01:34 AM
So lame you coulda lost more.

IN ONE YEAR?

I highly doubt it.

Silock
03-31-2009, 01:41 AM
We'll never know.

Machines are lame.

BTW, you have PM.

WilliamTheIrish
03-31-2009, 05:57 AM
There is so much misinformation out there. I want to make sure I am doing this right so that i'm not wasting my time....

There's plenty of misinformation right here. Find a qualified trainer. Spend a few weeks with them. If you can't afford that, most give free consultations. Pick their brain. Find out what they use as their workout and nutritional bible.

BigCatDaddy
03-31-2009, 07:38 AM
Yeah, if you want to get double ripped go to GNC. They'll rip you off too. Talk about overpriced.

For the most part yes. They have decent deals of protein supplements however. Everything else I buy online.

BigCatDaddy
03-31-2009, 07:40 AM
Its too bad Bigdaddy was run off by some dumbf@cks......

You're missing on solid information and cutting through a great cloud of bullshit.

Its amazing how much pure dumbf@ckary is passed as information on this thread.

I believe that would be Ultra Peanut. I would trade it for BD is a heart beat.

petegz28
03-31-2009, 08:38 AM
So lame I lost 100 lbs.

I am sure your eating habits had a lot to do with that.

Brock
03-31-2009, 08:44 AM
So lame I lost 100 lbs.

What you weigh doesnt' really tell you anything. Just because you went from doing nothing to doing something doesn't mean it couldn't have been optimized.

HC_Chief
03-31-2009, 08:54 AM
Basically, I'm tired of being another small guy. I'm 5 9" 145lbs. Im skinny and looking to add muscle mass. I've been working out a lot lately and am seeing pretty good results but would like to see better results faster (doesn't everyone?). I'm not looking to get buff, i don't think my frame would allow it. I'm looking to have great muscle tone and be overall healthy.

Any tips? Any good excercises that don't require weights etc? What are some good beginner supplements? Any help is appreciated. Thanks.

Free weights. Low reps, high weight = muscle building. High reps, low weight = muscle defining.

Remember to work your legs and back the most. Those are your two largest muscle groups (respectively). Way too many people overwork the chest; chest workouts should be secondary IMO.

Keep your workouts simple. You will see people doing all kinds of exotic lifts; keep yours basic. Squats, lunges, leg press, leg lifts, leg curls (hamstrings) for legs. Dead lift, barbell row, cable pull down, and pull ups for back (this will also hit your biceps as the secondary muscle group). Close-grip bench press, skull crushers (aka French press), dips for chest & triceps. Barbell curl for biceps. Dumbell press, military press, and barbell upright row for shoulders.

You shouldn't work shoulders & chest/triceps on the same day; too easy to damage your shoulder ligaments and rotator cuff.

A three day lifting week should be sufficient: Legs & shoulders day 1, back & biceps day 2, chest and triceps day 3. Take a day to rest between each lifting day; muscle growth occurs during rest, not during lifting. ;)

MIAdragon
03-31-2009, 09:06 AM
The curl is the only exercise in which biceps are the primary muscle group. Biceps are a stabilizer. I mean, it's okay to work them, but you're not going to increase arm size by doing it.

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_no_curl_biceps_program

http://www.t-nation.com/free_online_article/sports_body_training_performance/the_no_curl_biceps_program_part_two

I'm looking for an article I ran across a few months ago, but I can't find it right now. Basically, in a study, two groups of people did two workout routines. The only difference is that one group did bicep curls and the other did not. Both groups increased the size of their arms by the same amount. Adding curls did not increase bicep size nor arm size.

Biceps are a stabilizer muscle. They basically grow proportionally with the rest of your body. The secret to really massive arms is triceps. Triceps are the largest muscle in the arm, and if you want big arms, you need big tris. Tris are much easier to work and respond much better to most exercises because they're a primary muscle and are used in many exercises, like variations on the bench and dips and press.

Interesting, thanks!

Spicy McHaggis
03-31-2009, 09:19 AM
You shouldn't work shoulders & chest/triceps on the same day; too easy to damage your shoulder ligaments and rotator cuff.

Listen to the man. I used to try and kill it all in one day without much rest.

Now I can't do normal bar bench presses any more because of my right shoulder even after taking nearly a year off to let it heal.

I've found free weights have made me gain more strength without nearly the stress on my shoulder and alternating days is huge.

Spicy McHaggis
03-31-2009, 09:20 AM
For the most part yes. They have decent deals of protein supplements however. Everything else I buy online.

I've found a good deal on protein at Costco too of all places. Might be worth looking in to as well.

Buehler445
03-31-2009, 09:27 AM
http://www.geocities.com/elitemadcow1/5x5_Program/Linear_5x5.htm

Wow, 90 minutes just lifting? WTF are you doing that's taking so long? I guarantee you could make just a few changes and cut your workout in half and make it 50% more effective.

If you're not up for the 5x5 (and yes, you must know how to squat properly and have access to a squat rack for it to work), you could try alternating exercises.

Do bench, rest 30 seconds, then do rows. Rest 30, go back to bench. Repeat the alternating pattern with alternating exercises. The idea is that you can work one set of muscles while the other is recovering. Not only does that speed up your workout, but it gives you a much better overall workout in the process. Better ability to keep your HR up, increased metabolism. It's definitely not for the lazy, though (not saying you are).

I find intense workouts to be so much more personally fulfilling than workouts that take forever to finish.

This is my strategy. I try to keep recovery time between sets below 30 seconds. A lot of times I can't do it if I am changing lifts, but I can keep it darn close.

Unfortunately, as small as my weight toom is I typically have to go an hour before close so I can avoid the douchenozzles that sit and look at the weight, talk about the weight, talk TO the weight, get in position to do the weight, adjust their grip on the weight, grunt at the weight, and then lift the weight.

It works pretty well for me. I am a worthless piece of shit so I get some endurance out of it too.
Posted via Mobile Device

Iowanian
03-31-2009, 09:38 AM
I understand that gochiefs is now just like the governator, and is likely to star in the next pumping iron.

You'll gain MUCH more success if you rotate your workout, and change your reps/sets every 4-6 weeks.

Do 4-6 weeks of your 4 sets of 12, then do 4-6 weeks of 5 sets of 5 or a 5-4-3-2-1 type series, and then switch to 4 weeks of burn outs.....low weight, high rep counts or until you burn out. Your body performs best when its "surprised" once in a while.

BigCatDaddy
03-31-2009, 10:56 AM
Back to the OP. Don't worry about all these complicated workouts. Keep it simple just do these few things at first and you will have good results.

1. Teach yourself how to eat properly. With your stats you need to increase calories and protein intake. Research this. 70% of weight training is nutrition.
2. Trade in the 12 lb dumbbells for a gym membership.
3. Build a weight routine around the big 3. Bench Press, Squats, Dead Lifts.

Start here and then learn and work your way up.

Jethopper
03-31-2009, 12:11 PM
3. Build a weight routine around the big 3. Bench Press, Squats, Dead Lifts.


Make sure you consult someone on how to do these correctly. Many back and shoulder problems will occur if you don't.

dj56dt58
03-31-2009, 01:19 PM
Gakic works really well..it gives you a 10% strength increase so you can lift a little more than usual, and you can feel it working within a half hour. It also keeps you from getting fatigued so you can work out a lot longer..I think its only available at gnc. You'll get bigger in about a week using that..Also take creatine, it fuels your muscles even while your sleeping

BigCatDaddy
03-31-2009, 01:34 PM
Gakic works really well..it gives you a 10% strength increase so you can lift a little more than usual, and you can feel it working within a half hour. It also keeps you from getting fatigued so you can work out a lot longer..I think its only available at gnc. You'll get bigger in about a week using that..Also take creatine, it fuels your muscles even while your sleeping

MuslceTech's products over priced and over hyped.

HC_Chief
03-31-2009, 04:25 PM
MuslceTech's products over priced and over hyped.

But their "literature" is hysterical. If I ever need a good laugh I read one of their workout/testimonial pamphlets. LOL