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View Full Version : Trading the #3 pick???


kcbubb
04-01-2009, 10:16 AM
The likelihood of trading the #3 has been pretty slim with most predicting Stafford and Smith going 1,2.

I have long shot idea where Stafford could fall to #3 and I was wondering if any of you thought this idea was possible. If Stafford falls to #3, I think we could have a real chance of trading the pick.

Could the Lions trade a package of picks to the Broncos including the #20, #33, & possibly #65 or #137 draft choices for Cutler? I really don't know the value of Cutler, but it should be interesting.

The Broncos could reason that Sanchez would fall to them with their #12 pick or possibly try to trade up a few choices to take him.

Since the Lions have their QB choice wrapped up, they could in turn select Jason Smith OT Baylor with the #1 pick. The Rams would then select Eugene Monroe OT VA.

Leaving Stafford sitting nicely to be traded to the highest bidder at #3. Is that possible? I really don't know, but it seems like it would be a pretty good move for the Lions, and if the Broncos could get Sanchez, it might not be that bad for them either.

Coogs
04-01-2009, 10:24 AM
The likelihood of trading the #3 has been pretty slim with most predicting Stafford and Smith going 1,2.

I have long shot idea where Stafford could fall to #3 and I was wondering if any of you thought this idea was possible. If Stafford falls to #3, I think we could have a real chance of trading the pick.

Could the Lions trade a package of picks to the Broncos including the #20, #33, & possibly #65 or #137 draft choices for Cutler? I really don't know the value of Cutler, but it should be interesting.

The Broncos could reason that Sanchez would fall to them with their #12 pick or possibly try to trade up a few choices to take him.

Since the Lions have their QB choice wrapped up, they could in turn select Jason Smith OT Baylor with the #1 pick. The Rams would then select Eugene Monroe OT VA.

Leaving Stafford sitting nicely to be traded to the highest bidder at #3. Is that possible? I really don't know, but it seems like it would be a pretty good move for the Lions, and if the Broncos could get Sanchez, it might not be that bad for them either.

That seem reasonable to me, and would probably be the best case scenario for the Chiefs. #20 and #33 and a possible conditional pick in next years draft based on performance by Cutler for the Lions could be a scenario as well.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 10:31 AM
with the value of Cassel being around the value of #34 pick, you would think that the #20 and #33 would work for Cutler or be pretty close.

orange
04-01-2009, 11:18 AM
with the value of Cassel being around the value of #34 pick, you would think that the #20 and #33 would work for Cutler or be pretty close.

Sorry, no dice. Cutler is a young pro-bowler with huge physical talent and three years of experience, none of which applies to Cassel - and to boot, he will cost his new team a fraction of the money that Cassel costs, locked in for three years.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 11:22 AM
Sorry, no dice. Cutler is a young pro-bowler with huge physical talent and three years of experience, none of which applies to Cassel - and to boot, he will cost his new team a fraction of the money that Cassel costs, locked in for three years.

do you think Detroit could get him w/o giving up their top pick? also, will Cutler demand a new contract when he is traded?

orange
04-01-2009, 11:23 AM
do you think Detroit could get him w/o giving up their top pick? also, will Cutler demand a new contract when he is traded?

No and yes (although not immediately - next year's drama).

Besides, if Detroit gets Cutler, why would they want that first pick? They have a lot of holes to fill and trading three picks to get a player they could get with one makes no great sense - it's the opposite of the trade-down options that are so popular.

Chiefnj2
04-01-2009, 11:25 AM
do you think Detroit could get him w/o giving up their top pick? also, will Cutler demand a new contract when he is traded?

Sure. The teams they are competing against (Jets, Bears, Bucs) are all groups around 17-20 in the draft. Detroit can offer earlier 2nd and 3rd round picks for him than any those teams.

orange
04-01-2009, 11:27 AM
Sure. The teams they are competing against (Jets, Bears, Bucs) are all groups around 17-20 in the draft. Detroit can offer earlier 2nd and 3rd round picks for him than any those teams.

You left out Cleveland at #5. The Browns also have extra picks like Detroit - and Quinn to package along. They look to me like the most realistic trade right now - although I would prefer Stafford.

There's also Jacksonville at #8 and San Francisco at #10.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 11:41 AM
No and yes (although not immediately - next year's drama).

Besides, if Detroit gets Cutler, why would they want that first pick? They have a lot of holes to fill and trading three picks to get a player they could get with one makes no great sense - it's the opposite of the trade-down options that are so popular.

If the broncos would take the 20,33, and 65; the lions wouldn't have much of a draft left. they already traded their 4th and 7th to cowboys. so, their draft would consist of the 1st, 5th and 6th round.

BUT, if they did get Cutler and took Smith with the first pick, their offense would be set for years. They would pretty much have all the pieces on offense. Plus Cutler throwing to Charles Johnson could be dangerous.

They would be competitive team immediately, even with a bad defense.

KCrockaholic
04-01-2009, 11:45 AM
If the broncos would take the 20,33, and 65; the lions wouldn't have much of a draft left. they already traded their 4th and 7th to cowboys. so, their draft would consist of the 1st, 5th and 6th round.

BUT, if they did get Cutler and took Smith with the first pick, their offense would be set for years. They would pretty much have all the pieces on offense. Plus Cutler throwing to Charles Johnson could be dangerous.

They would be competitive team immediately, even with a bad defense.

what about runningback for Detroit? and another option at reciever. Im not sold on Kevin Jones yet. I dont think their offense will be set until that have somebody to steal some attention off of Johnson.

Pestilence
04-01-2009, 11:46 AM
what about runningback for Detroit? and another option at reciever. Im not sold on Kevin Jones yet. I dont think their offense will be set until that have somebody to steal some attention off of Johnson.

Isn't it Kevin Smith?

CanadaKC
04-01-2009, 11:47 AM
i think you meant calvin johnson...not the love child of calvin johnson and charles rodgers....:P

KCrockaholic
04-01-2009, 11:47 AM
Isn't it Kevin Smith?

oh thats right...so many damn Kevins playing runningback these days. ;)

KCrockaholic
04-01-2009, 11:48 AM
Didnt Kevin Jones play for them too though?

bdeg
04-01-2009, 12:03 PM
Cutler may have been worth the #1 overall pick before everyone viewed him as a crybaby. Now I believe his value is closer to 20+33+65+137

It'd make sense for both teams. Detroit could get two cornerstones and the Broncos would get a wealth of draft picks out of the debacle. It's not ideal value for a franchise QB, but they don't have a choice.

I hope STL isn't tempted by Stafford, they could use a QB and if they have a large preference for the OT that goes #1 I wouldn't be shocked if they took Stafford.

orange
04-01-2009, 12:03 PM
If the broncos would take the 20,33, and 65; the lions wouldn't have much of a draft left. they already traded their 4th and 7th to cowboys. so, their draft would consist of the 1st, 5th and 6th round.

BUT, if they did get Cutler and took Smith with the first pick, their offense would be set for years. They would pretty much have all the pieces on offense. Plus Cutler throwing to Charles Johnson could be dangerous.

They would be competitive team immediately, even with a bad defense.

The Broncos need to get a QB out of this. They're not going to take any trade that doesn't get them one. #20 won't cut it no matter what later picks are packaged with it.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 12:05 PM
Daunte Culpepper!!!

MoreLemonPledge
04-01-2009, 12:11 PM
Cutler may have been worth the #1 overall pick before everyone viewed him as a crybaby.

He's really hurt his value by acting like a 9 year old about the whole situation.

orange
04-01-2009, 12:13 PM
Daunte Culpepper!!!

I repeat....


The Broncos need to get a QB out of this. They're not going to take any trade that doesn't get them one. #20 won't cut it no matter what later picks are packaged with it.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 12:13 PM
lol, that's coming from a Chiefs fan don't worry, I don't expect it. But I would love to see him in Denver:drool:

Pestilence
04-01-2009, 12:14 PM
Didnt Kevin Jones play for them too though?

Yeah but now Kevin Jones is with the Bears. Or at least he was last year.

Coogs
04-01-2009, 12:35 PM
The Broncos need to get a QB out of this. They're not going to take any trade that doesn't get them one. #20 won't cut it no matter what later picks are packaged with it.

But if you trade Cutler to the Lions for that #20 and whatever else is needed to complete that trade, the Lions will surely not draft a QB at #1. Picks #12 and #20 would be in the ballpark to move up in the draft... possibly even to #2 or #3 to aquire the QB of your choice.

milkman
04-01-2009, 12:38 PM
Sanchez to the Donkeys?

Kill yourself/Hamas

orange
04-01-2009, 12:42 PM
But if you trade Cutler to the Lions for that #20 and whatever else is needed to complete that trade, the Lions will surely not draft a QB at #1. Picks #12 and #20 would be in the ballpark to move up in the draft... possibly even to #2 or #3 to aquire the QB of your choice.

Too many "what ifs." Now, as part of a three-team trade that would secure one of those early picks, yes (at least ahead of Jacksonville).

But I still don't like that trade for Detroit's end. They really aren't in a position to package up multiple picks for one player.

Of course, they ARE Detroit.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 01:00 PM
I think it would be a good trade for Detroit. Cutler and Smith at OT would solidify their offense. And when is the last time Detroit had a good QB???

They can work on defense next year when the draft is better for defense.

I think it would be good for the Broncos IF Sanchez drops to 12. Then they have a QB, and a ton of picks.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 01:04 PM
I think it would be a good trade for Detroit. Cutler and Smith at OT would solidify their offense. And when is the last time Detroit had a good QB???

They can work on defense next year when the draft is better for defense.

I think it would be good for the Broncos IF Sanchez drops to 12. Then they have a QB, and a ton of picks.

They'd definitely feel like they'd be able to trade to to snag their guy with all those picks.
Too many "what ifs." Now, as part of a three-team trade that would secure one of those early picks, yes (at least ahead of Jacksonville).
A 3-way trade wouldn't be out of the question, but that could mean Denver holding onto Cutler until draft day to see where the QB they want falls to.

htismaqe
04-01-2009, 01:36 PM
A 3-way trade wouldn't be out of the question, but that could mean Denver holding onto Cutler until draft day to see where the QB they want falls to.

I could see something going down DURING the draft, making for high drama.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 01:40 PM
Cutler may have been worth the #1 overall pick before everyone viewed him as a crybaby. Now I believe his value is closer to 20+33+65+137


If a team gave up that much for him, I'd say they were absolutely nuts. I don't even know if I'd give up the #20 overall. The #33 would probably do it but if Detroit gives up those 4 picks, they should have never fired Matt Millen.

Saccopoo
04-01-2009, 01:51 PM
There is no way that Detroit gives up picks for Cutler, especially considering the incredibly positive interview/workout that Stafford recently had with them. They have more holes to fill than any other team out there, and giving up three picks, most likely including one of their first rounders, for a quarterback like Cutler, when they can get a guy like Cutler in Stafford with their first pick, is not going to happen.

The Broncos are basically screwed, and screwed themselves by Bowlen's public announcement of the necessity of a trade for Cutler. Teams now know that the Broncos have to trade this guy, and can lowball it in a trade at this point. There are teams out there that desperately need a guy like Cutler, but other than the Browns with Quinn, none of them really have anything to offer other than picks. And if Detroit picks Stafford, there is a very real chance that both Sanchez and Freeman will be gone by the time Denver picks at 12. Teams knowing that Denver is going to now take a QB will look to be leapfrogging them to do so. Benefits the Chiefs if they want to trade down out of the #3 spot for a team wanting Sanchez.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 01:54 PM
The Broncos are basically screwed, and screwed themselves by Bowlen's public announcement of the necessity of a trade for Cutler.

Hell, if Stafford's gone at #3, the Chiefs may nab Sanchez which would force Denver to give up picks to acquire him.

It could be a very interesting draft day.

Pestilence
04-01-2009, 01:58 PM
The only team that I could see trading for him would be the Browns. I don't see the Browns giving up the #5 and Quinn though. I could see Quinn and their 2nd round pick but that's about it.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:01 PM
The only team that I could see trading for him would be the Browns. I don't see the Browns giving up the #5 and Quinn though. I could see Quinn and their 2nd round pick but that's about it.

That's still a pretty steep price because Cleveland gave up two #1's for Quinn.

What a waste.

Pestilence
04-01-2009, 02:05 PM
That's still a pretty steep price because Cleveland gave up two #1's for Quinn.

What a waste.

Tampa Bay, Minnesota and New York (Jets) should be the only teams offering up picks for Cutler. Everyone else has too many holes to fill to be trading a 1st round pick for a QB who complains.

Minnesota with Cutler would be scary. If I'm the owner of the Vikings....I'm doing everything I can to get Cutler on my team. Fuck Sage Rosenfels.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:07 PM
Minnesota with Cutler would be scary. If I'm the owner of the Vikings....I'm doing everything I can to get Cutler on my time. Fuck Sage Rosenfels.

I agree. They would be incredible.

I'd hate to see Denver get two first rounders from Minnesota, unless they traded up with the Chiefs to get their #3.

:D

Pestilence
04-01-2009, 02:09 PM
That's still a pretty steep price because Cleveland gave up two #1's for Quinn.

What a waste.

Well...a 2nd round pick and a 1st to get him...but yeah I get your point.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 02:19 PM
There is no way that Detroit gives up picks for Cutler, especially considering the incredibly positive interview/workout that Stafford recently had with them. They have more holes to fill than any other team out there, and giving up three picks, most likely including one of their first rounders, for a quarterback like Cutler, when they can get a guy like Cutler in Stafford with their first pick, is not going to happen.

And if Detroit picks Stafford, there is a very real chance that both Sanchez and Freeman will be gone by the time Denver picks at 12. Teams knowing that Denver is going to now take a QB will look to be leapfrogging them to do so. Benefits the Chiefs if they want to trade down out of the #3 spot for a team wanting Sanchez.
But this enables them to get a proven franchise guy, plus an elite safe tackle.

I don't think there's any way Freeman goes before 12.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:21 PM
And if Detroit picks Stafford, there is a very real chance that both Sanchez and Freeman will be gone by the time Denver picks at 12.

There is ZERO chance of Freeman going from 1-11.

Coogs
04-01-2009, 02:31 PM
There is ZERO chance of Freeman going from 1-11.



What if Stafford goes #1 and say Sanchez goes at #10 to the 49ers. Think the Bills at #11 might get any calls from the Bears, Jets, or Bucc's about trading?

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:34 PM
What if Stafford goes #1 and say Sanchez goes at #10 to the 49ers. Think the Bills at #11 might get any calls from the Bears, Jets, or Bucc's about trading?

For Freeman?

That would be hard to imagine unless one of those teams was absolutely in love with him (which is something that has not been reported).

bdeg
04-01-2009, 02:35 PM
I just don't think Freeman is good enough to warrant that pick or contract. I could be wrong I'm not a k-state fan.

Coogs
04-01-2009, 02:35 PM
For Freeman?

That would be hard to imagine unless one of those teams was absolutely in love with him (which is something that has not been reported).

:shrug: Reports I have heard on Freeman have said his stock is rising.

Saccopoo
04-01-2009, 02:35 PM
But this enables them to get a proven franchise guy, plus an elite safe tackle.

I don't think there's any way Freeman goes before 12.

Detroit can do that with Stafford at #1 and address the tackle spot at #20. Besides, they picked Cherilus last year with their 17 pick. I don't think he's in the same class as Albert or Clady, but he'll be a decent RT in the league. Guys like Britton, Beatty and even Oher or Smith might be there at the #20 spot. And they don't have to give up picks to do it. I mean, it makes sense, but they have far too many holes at other positions to consider giving up picks for Cutler when Stafford is theirs for the taking.

As far as Freeman goes, if Stafford comes off the board at #1, there is a real chance that Sanchez could be gone by the #2 pick. It looks like the Rams are in rebuild mode, and this is Bulgers ninth year in the league, he didn't look that good last year, and has been bugged by injuries recently. No one thought that Denver would have moved up to pick Cutler either. Seattle could also pick Sanchez for the same reasons as St. Louis. If that happens, Freeman could be targeted by either Jacksonville or San Francisco, leaving Denver at the #12 with nothing. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:38 PM
:shrug: Reports I have heard on Freeman have said his stock is rising.

Not to #11.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 02:38 PM
Detroit can do that with Stafford at #1 and address the tackle spot at #20. Besides, they picked Cherilus last year with their 17 pick. I don't think he's in the same class as Albert or Clady, but he'll be a decent RT in the league. Guys like Britton, Beatty and even Oher or Smith might be there at the #20 spot. And they don't have to give up picks to do it. I mean, it makes sense, but they have far too many holes at other positions to consider giving up picks for Cutler when Stafford is theirs for the taking.

As far as Freeman goes, if Stafford comes off the board at #1, there is a real chance that Sanchez could be gone by the #2 pick. It looks like the Rams are in rebuild mode, and this is Bulgers ninth year in the league, he didn't look that good last year, and has been bugged by injuries recently. No one thought that Denver would have moved up to pick Cutler either. Seattle could also pick Sanchez for the same reasons as St. Louis. If that happens, Freeman could be targeted by either Jacksonville or San Francisco, leaving Denver at the #12 with nothing. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could.

Oher is the only legit LT that MIGHT be available unless they reach for Beatty. With the # of teams needing an LT I don't think Oher makes it to 20. They have a lot of holes, but getting cornerstones at the most valuable positions is a great way to start. Just like the reasoning for taking Curry instead of a pass-rusher, this is a long-term build. Add one or two great pieces at a time.

As for Freeman, I'm just going off of the reports I've read from k-state fans here that don't like him, and clips. I've never seen a full game.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:39 PM
Detroit can do that with Stafford at #1 and address the tackle spot at #20. Besides, they picked Cherilus last year with their 17 pick. I don't think he's in the same class as Albert or Clady, but he'll be a decent RT in the league. Guys like Britton, Beatty and even Oher or Smith might be there at the #20 spot. And they don't have to give up picks to do it. I mean, it makes sense, but they have far too many holes at other positions to consider giving up picks for Cutler when Stafford is theirs for the taking.

As far as Freeman goes, if Stafford comes off the board at #1, there is a real chance that Sanchez could be gone by the #2 pick. It looks like the Rams are in rebuild mode, and this is Bulgers ninth year in the league, he didn't look that good last year, and has been bugged by injuries recently. No one thought that Denver would have moved up to pick Cutler either. Seattle could also pick Sanchez for the same reasons as St. Louis. If that happens, Freeman could be targeted by either Jacksonville or San Francisco, leaving Denver at the #12 with nothing. I'm not saying it will happen, but it could.

Um, no.

Monroe or Smith to the Rams. No other player. They don't have a left tackle, they have a QB in place and a member here with sources within the Rams organization have told him that LT is their choice.

You're grasping at straws.

bdeg
04-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Um, no.

Monroe or Smith to the Rams. No other player. They don't have a left tackle, they have a QB in place and a member here with sources within the Rams organization have told him that LT is their choice.

You're grasping at straws.

Dane, you of all people should know the QB is the most important position on the field. If they like Stafford or Sanchez, why not grab a LT in the 2nd or later on?

Coogs
04-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Not to #11.

Depends on how bad someone like Tampa Bay or Chicago wants a QB? I've seen him going as high as the Jets pick at 17. And if the other 2 are gone? Beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and if you know the Bronco's need a QB at #12... :shrug:

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 02:41 PM
Dane, you of all people should know the QB is the most important position on the field. If they like Stafford or Sanchez, why not grab a LT in the 2nd or later on?

I'm just going off of what our "inside source" has told us.

Personally, I don't see how you could pass on either QB but then again, I'm not running an NFL franchise.

Saccopoo
04-01-2009, 02:47 PM
Um, no.

Monroe or Smith to the Rams. No other player. They don't have a left tackle, they have a QB in place and a member here with sources within the Rams organization have told him that LT is their choice.

You're grasping at straws.

Just throwing out some hypotheticals Dane. Nothing more. I'd be shocked if they didn't take a LT, but weirder things have happened. Denver trading up to get Cutler when they just went to the AFC championship game with Plummer having his best year as a pro was a much stranger occurrence than if St. Louis or Seattle picked Sanchez if Detroit takes Stafford. And Freeman's physical attributes, his play in a pro style offense, and arm strength might make him a more attractive option to a team like Jacksonville or San Francisco than McCoy or Bradford next season, because once you get past Freeman in this draft, it's pretty devoid of qb talent. I think teams see Freeman as a potential Joe Flacco guy - big arm, big body, some question marks, but the arm and size push him up.

I might be grasping at straws, but there are a couple laying on the barn floor to pick up. It's not like it couldn't happen.

DaneMcCloud
04-01-2009, 03:00 PM
Just throwing out some hypotheticals Dane.

Obviously.

SBK
04-01-2009, 03:48 PM
Would I enjoy taking the QB that Denver is targeting to move up and take. Yes.

The Bad Guy
04-01-2009, 04:49 PM
I don't think the Broncos would want the top pick. There is too much money tied into it.

I think Detroits package of the 23rd (or wheverever Dallas picks), their 2nd rounder, and a conditional 2nd rounder next year would get it done although the Broncos likely want an NFL-ready player now.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 07:02 PM
He's really hurt his value by acting like a 9 year old about the whole situation.

I really don't think so. After watching the Bills scoop TO immediately after the Cowboys cut him and pay him big money for an old receiver I really don't think this will hurt Cutler.

I think if he has an owner and coach that won't lie to him or get rid of a coach that he has built a relationship with he will be a perfect citizen for his new team.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 07:03 PM
really, did it bother anybody about anything else he did??? so he said he could throw it harder than elway... big deal.. oh, i forgot, he doesn't comb his hair... who cares??? as long as he keeps throwing lasers, I wouldn't.

kcbubb
04-01-2009, 07:10 PM
here's another question...

Let's take Coogs deal. I think I like that the best. Say the Lions give the #20 and the #33 and conditional pick next year that could be as good as 2nd and as bad as a 7th depending on performance for Cutler.

Who gets the better end of the trade?

orange
04-01-2009, 07:31 PM
I don't think the Broncos would want the top pick. There is too much money tied into it.

I think Detroits package of the 23rd (or wheverever Dallas picks), their 2nd rounder, and a conditional 2nd rounder next year would get it done although the Broncos likely want an NFL-ready player now.

If Denver is actually talking about trading for Peppers like some have reported, money can't be an issue.

bdeg
04-02-2009, 01:57 AM
here's another question...

Let's take Coogs deal. I think I like that the best. Say the Lions give the #20 and the #33 and conditional pick next year that could be as good as 2nd and as bad as a 7th depending on performance for Cutler.

Who gets the better end of the trade?

this is the most fair trade I can think of, although I see the pick being conditional as a bit arbitrary depending on the stipulations. I still think Detroit's the ultimate winner.

bdeg
04-02-2009, 04:48 AM
really, did it bother anybody about anything else he did??? so he said he could throw it harder than elway... big deal.. oh, i forgot, he doesn't comb his hair... who cares??? as long as he keeps throwing lasers, I wouldn't.

He's no longer the content guy that you can count on to stay happy and want to resign with your team.

kcbubb
04-02-2009, 07:42 AM
I think he was pretty happy with Shanahan. I really think Cutler is getting a pretty bad rap in most of this.