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View Full Version : Economics G-20: $1 Trillion stimulus approved. Does Obama get the credit?


BigRedChief
04-02-2009, 11:05 AM
Glad to see someone else spending their money to get us out of this financial ditch.

The headlines were Obama being outflanked by France and Germany. No more stimulus money from the G-20 to the global economy. The USA doesn't run this show anymore. Seems like getting the G-20 to put up a trillion $'s shows who is really the leader. Seems to me that Obama's first foreign policy trip is a huge success. BTW, I thought the Russians were adding us to their enemy list again? No way were they going to negoiate without a public statement that the anti-missle defense project in Poland was scraped. But they are coming back to the negoiating table? :thumb:

http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/04/02/g-leaders-arrive-crisis-summit/

LONDON -- Global leaders pledged an additional $1 trillion to restore credit, growth and jobs in the world economy on Thursday, exceeding expectations in their plan to deal with the financial crisis.

The Group of 20 nations also agreed to renounce protectionism and pledged $250 billion in trade finance over the next two years -- a key measure to help struggling developing countries, whom they promised to give a greater say in world economic affairs.

The G-20 also outlined a raft of policies to rebuild trust in the financial system, including a crackdown on tax havens and hedge funds and new rules on linking executive pay to performance.

While they did not agree to any new fiscal measures, Prime Minister Gordon Brown said the $1 trillion deal to boost funds for the International Monetary Fund, World Bank and other global institutions was unprecedented.

"Today the largest countries of the world have agreed on a global plan for economic recovery and reform," Brown said after hosting the emergency summit in London's Docklands district.

"For the first time we have a common approach to cleaning up banks around the world to restructuring of the world financial system. We have maintained our commitment to help the world's poorest," Brown said.
"This is a collective action of people around the world working at their best."

The sweeping G-20 communique bridged a gap between the United States and European countries led by France and Germany over how far to push changes on regulation to curb the market excesses that led to the current crisis.

Nightfyre
04-02-2009, 11:08 AM
Yawn.

http://money.cnn.com/news/specials/storysupplement/bailout_scorecard/index.html

MOhillbilly
04-02-2009, 11:11 AM
And the Reds win.

Stewie
04-02-2009, 11:26 AM
The banks get another $1 trillion. There's still a long way to go.

mlyonsd
04-02-2009, 12:36 PM
Glad to see someone else spending their money to get us out of this financial ditch.

The headlines were Obama being outflanked by France and Germany. No more stimulus money from the G-20 to the global economy. The USA doesn't run this show anymore. Seems like getting the G-20 to put up a trillion $'s shows who is really the leader. Seems to me that Obama's first foreign policy trip is a huge success. BTW, I thought the Russians were adding us to their enemy list again? No way were they going to negoiate without a public statement that the anti-missle defense project in Poland was scraped. But they are coming back to the negoiating table? :thumb:


One slight problem is the 1 trillion isn't stimulus money.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-02-2009, 12:46 PM
1 and 1/2 quadrillion in derivatives 1 trillion should plug the dam.

KC native
04-02-2009, 12:51 PM
1 and 1/2 quadrillion in derivatives 1 trillion should plug the dam.

1.5 Quadrillion? Where the hell did you get that number?

The numbers bantied about regarding derivatives are notional values so you can't just jump because the notional values are high. These contracts are offset with other positions and it really depends on what the derivative covers.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-02-2009, 12:58 PM
1.5 Quadrillion? Where the hell did you get that number?

The numbers bantied about regarding derivatives are notional values so you can't just jump because the notional values are high. These contracts are offset with other positions and it really depends on what the derivative covers.

http://inthesenewtimes.com/2009/03/18/the-invisible-one-quadrillion-dollar-equation-asymmetric-leverage-and-systemic-risk/

Iowanian
04-02-2009, 01:32 PM
I saw the riot where they were chanting....

O-MAO-MA! O-MAO-MA! O-MAO-MA!


Dear Leader will save us!!

KC native
04-02-2009, 01:35 PM
http://inthesenewtimes.com/2009/03/18/the-invisible-one-quadrillion-dollar-equation-asymmetric-leverage-and-systemic-risk/

Ok, I they are adding up the notional values of everything that's a derivative. Not all of that is a problem. Only OTC derivatives and CDS's are where the problems lie right now.

BigRedChief
04-02-2009, 01:47 PM
I saw the riot where they were chanting....

O-MAO-MA! O-MAO-MA! O-MAO-MA!


Dear Leader will save us!!
You'd better hope his policies work because there won't be an economy left to run when he gets thrown out of office.

patteeu
04-02-2009, 01:48 PM
Glad to see someone else spending their money to get us out of this financial ditch.

The headlines were Obama being outflanked by France and Germany. No more stimulus money from the G-20 to the global economy. The USA doesn't run this show anymore. Seems like getting the G-20 to put up a trillion $'s shows who is really the leader. Seems to me that Obama's first foreign policy trip is a huge success. BTW, I thought the Russians were adding us to their enemy list again? No way were they going to negoiate without a public statement that the anti-missle defense project in Poland was scraped. But they are coming back to the negoiating table? :thumb:

Do you really believe that Obama went to this summit with the outcome still in question? You've been had, again.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-02-2009, 01:49 PM
Outstanding Derivatives: 1.28 QUADRILLION-95% on MARGIN!

In an inflationary economy, big numbers quickly lose the shock factor.

Over the course of just a few years, a single banana becomes 10 times more expensive than what a four-bedroom home used to cost. A simple two-ply square of toilet paper sells for $417, while a full roll is priced at more than $140,000. And don’t even torture yourself by guessing how much a gallon of gas can go for under these conditions. The numbers get so big, not only do people stop trying to understand them, they begin to ignore them.

So it is alarming that the latest report from the Bank of International Settlements (bis) went largely unnoticed.

According to the bis, the number of outstanding derivative contracts in the global marketplace soared by double-digit percentages last year. Anything going up by double digits should elicit interest in and of itself, but in this case it is the sheer magnitude of the numbers involved that raises red flags.

The bis reported the total amount of outstanding derivatives has reached a practically incomprehensible $1.28 quadrillion. Yes, you read that correctly—quadrillion! And as astounding as this astronomically huge number is, the actual totals are even bigger because this number does not include derivatives related to the commodity markets (which the bis says it can’t track because values aren’t available).

A quadrillion dollars is hard to wrap your mind around. It takes a thousand trillion to make a quadrillion. Start with 1 million and multiply by 1,000, then multiply by 1,000 again, then multiple by 1,000 yet a gain—and then finally you get to 1 quadrillion. You can think of it as more than 92 times the value of all goods and services produced in America during 2007, or almost 20 times global gross domestic product.
(Snippet)
According to DeMeritt, the majority of the $1.28 quadrillion in derivatives is “owned” on somewhere near 95 percent margin!

That has got to be “one of the scariest phenomena in economic history,” he says.

In case you are wondering, 95 percent margin means that for every dollar speculators have spent betting on derivatives, approximately 95 cents of that money was borrowed. For $5,000, a hedge fund speculator can control $100,000 worth of credit derivatives.


http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/2009/03/outstanding-derivatives-128-quadrillion.html

KC native
04-02-2009, 02:19 PM
Outstanding Derivatives: 1.28 QUADRILLION-95% on MARGIN!

In an inflationary economy, big numbers quickly lose the shock factor.

Over the course of just a few years, a single banana becomes 10 times more expensive than what a four-bedroom home used to cost. A simple two-ply square of toilet paper sells for $417, while a full roll is priced at more than $140,000. And don’t even torture yourself by guessing how much a gallon of gas can go for under these conditions. The numbers get so big, not only do people stop trying to understand them, they begin to ignore them.

So it is alarming that the latest report from the Bank of International Settlements (bis) went largely unnoticed.

According to the bis, the number of outstanding derivative contracts in the global marketplace soared by double-digit percentages last year. Anything going up by double digits should elicit interest in and of itself, but in this case it is the sheer magnitude of the numbers involved that raises red flags.

The bis reported the total amount of outstanding derivatives has reached a practically incomprehensible $1.28 quadrillion. Yes, you read that correctly—quadrillion! And as astounding as this astronomically huge number is, the actual totals are even bigger because this number does not include derivatives related to the commodity markets (which the bis says it can’t track because values aren’t available).

A quadrillion dollars is hard to wrap your mind around. It takes a thousand trillion to make a quadrillion. Start with 1 million and multiply by 1,000, then multiply by 1,000 again, then multiple by 1,000 yet a gain—and then finally you get to 1 quadrillion. You can think of it as more than 92 times the value of all goods and services produced in America during 2007, or almost 20 times global gross domestic product.
(Snippet)
According to DeMeritt, the majority of the $1.28 quadrillion in derivatives is “owned” on somewhere near 95 percent margin!

That has got to be “one of the scariest phenomena in economic history,” he says.

In case you are wondering, 95 percent margin means that for every dollar speculators have spent betting on derivatives, approximately 95 cents of that money was borrowed. For $5,000, a hedge fund speculator can control $100,000 worth of credit derivatives.


http://thecomingdepression.blogspot.com/2009/03/outstanding-derivatives-128-quadrillion.html

Wow, do you really consider that guy's opinion as credible on the subject of derivatives? (Everyone else check out the link and have some laughs)


This author doesn't understand derivatives and is lumping all of them together. There a no problems with listed options (which are derivatives as well). Interest rate swaps are also fine. The vast majority of derivatives are fine. Again, the face values are meaningless because face values are never exchanged. There is a need for more regulation in the derivative space (specifically OTC derivatives and CDS) but listed derivatives are heavily regulated.

KILLER_CLOWN
04-02-2009, 02:25 PM
The banks get another $1 trillion. There's still a long way to go.

Yup we should have a bailout about every 6 months or less for the rest of our lives.

Taco John
04-02-2009, 02:26 PM
Where is this "money" coming from?

KC Dan
04-02-2009, 02:28 PM
Where is this "money" coming from?
Look in your wallet. It is a bit lighter now....

BigRedChief
04-02-2009, 02:35 PM
Do you really believe that Obama went to this summit with the outcome still in question? You've been had, again.
He had no choice. This isn't a voluntary meeting. Again, your own personal politics is causing you to fail to recognize or at least deride/dilute any achievements by Obama.

Guru
04-02-2009, 03:47 PM
Where is this "money" coming from?magic

BucEyedPea
04-02-2009, 04:16 PM
Where is this "money" coming from?

air

BucEyedPea
04-02-2009, 04:18 PM
Wow! International Central Banking and International Socialism.

Calcountry
04-02-2009, 04:30 PM
The banks get another $1 trillion. There's still a long way to go.Bigredchief on/ But this is good, Obama did it.

mlyonsd
04-02-2009, 04:31 PM
Where is this "money" coming from?

If it's evenly divided between the G20 that's only 50 billion per country. Hell, that's chump change to us anymore since we just print ours up.

Nightfyre
04-02-2009, 05:02 PM
Wow! International Central Banking and International Socialism.

Im about ready to give up on the entire world. This is so fucked up. I saw this all happening from the get go back when we bailed out Bear. Its so disheartening to see that national debt pile up and know that Im going to have to pay for that AND the fucktarded ponzi-scheme known as social security.