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Coogs
04-03-2009, 03:42 PM
My first choice would be Sanchez, but I don't think that will happen. My 2nd choice is Crabtree. I know many of you don't agree, but I think he would be perfect for Haley and the new offense.

Bowe ran a 4.51 forty. Crabtree is listed at 4.55 on NFLDraftCountdown. That's actually faster than the Cards duo.

Boldin ran a 4.71 forty. Fitzgerald ran a 4.53 forty. These two guys make it work without getting the defense all jammed up as some here claim it would for Bowe and Crabtree.



And here is what Kiper has to say in a chat from this afternoon on ESPN.com...

David (Austin): Who does Michael Crabtree compare most favorably to in the NFL?? Do you think there's any "bust" potential with Crabtree?

Mel Kiper: I don't see any bust potential. He's competitive, sure handed, tough WR. I think he compares to a Larry Fitzgerald and an Andre Johnson. If he's anywhere close to being as good as those two, you hit the jackpot.


So if we pass on Sanchez, Crabtree would be the guy I would like as of April 3rd.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 03:46 PM
it's going to be a tradedown for Barwin or Brown

L.A. Chieffan
04-03-2009, 03:47 PM
antifreeze

Pestilence
04-03-2009, 03:54 PM
it's going to be a tradedown for Barwin or Brown

This.

kcbubb
04-03-2009, 04:04 PM
I would hope for a tradedown, but I don't see it happening. Detroit takes Stafford and the Rams take the OT. And I don't see anyone trading up to #3 for Sanchez or Monroe.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-03-2009, 04:04 PM
If we trade down for Connor Barwin in the first round, everyone in the entire organization should be summarily executed.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 04:07 PM
If we trade down for Connor Barwin in the first round, everyone in the entire organization should be summarily executed.

Why?

The Bad Guy
04-03-2009, 04:08 PM
If we trade down for Connor Barwin in the first round, everyone in the entire organization should be summarily executed.

100% agreed.

Pestilence
04-03-2009, 04:09 PM
I would hope for a tradedown, but I don't see it happening. Detroit takes Stafford and the Rams take the OT. And I don't see anyone trading up to #3 for Sanchez or Monroe.

Why don't you see that? Seattle is sitting in the perfect spot right now. If Stafford goes to the Lions and the Rams take an OT then Seattle has their pick between Sanchez and Monroe/Smith. Not only that.....but if someone trades up for the #3 pick.....Seattle still gets what's left over.

Chiefnj2
04-03-2009, 04:13 PM
I think Crabtree is definitely under consideration by the KC brass. Haley being a WR's coach and OL and having great success with Fitz and Bolden. Pioli seeing how dominant the team became with Moss and Welker. I say 50% trade down, 40% Curry, 5% Orakpo, 5% Crabtree.

SBK
04-03-2009, 04:20 PM
The people we're bringing in make me think we're not just trading out of the top 5, we're trading out of the top 20.

Coogs
04-03-2009, 04:25 PM
I think Crabtree is definitely under consideration by the KC brass. Haley being a WR's coach and OL and having great success with Fitz and Bolden. Pioli seeing how dominant the team became with Moss and Welker. I say 50% trade down, 40% Curry, 5% Orakpo, 5% Crabtree.

I just can't really seeing anyone wanting to trade up yet. Maybe it will happen, but I am just not seeing it yet. And most every single defender there is in the draft would not be ranked near this high in a different year. Look at next year for instance. How high would Curry be ranked in next years class? Orakpo?

Crabtree is the highest ranked offensive player there is on some boards. We don't need a LT. Crabtree not only makes sense, but an Andre Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald is not only worthy of the #3 money, but worthy of the #3 pick as well.

htismaqe
04-03-2009, 04:31 PM
The people we're bringing in make me think we're not just trading out of the top 5, we're trading out of the top 20.

I'd be willing to bet that's what they WANT to do. It's just a question of whether or not they can make it happen.

Pestilence
04-03-2009, 04:35 PM
I just can't really seeing anyone wanting to trade up yet. Maybe it will happen, but I am just not seeing it yet. And most every single defender there is in the draft would not be ranked near this high in a different year. Look at next year for instance. How high would Curry be ranked in next years class? Orakpo?

Crabtree is the highest ranked offensive player there is on some boards. We don't need a LT. Crabtree not only makes sense, but an Andre Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald is not only worthy of the #3 money, but worthy of the #3 pick as well.

There is nothing to compare Crabtree to A. Johnson or Fitz.

ChiefRon
04-03-2009, 04:40 PM
I've wondered this myself, with Haley as the coach, if he has visions of Fitz when he watches Crabtree, then it could happen.

I'll still be pissed when it happens, esp with Sanchez on the board, but what can you do except hope it works out.

kcbubb
04-03-2009, 04:44 PM
who's going trade up??? I don't see the jags or the 49ers doing it.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 04:45 PM
who's going trade up??? I don't see the jags or the 49ers doing it.

I do, Jags for Monroe or Smith and the 49ers for a QB.

KCChiefsMan
04-03-2009, 04:46 PM
I kinda want a tradedown to get one of them Middle Linebackers and extra picks, but I wouldn't cry or be upset if we picked Crabtree. I doubt it will happen though.

kcbubb
04-03-2009, 04:50 PM
I do, Jags for Monroe or Smith and the 49ers for a QB.

the 49ers have two qbs they like with Alex Smith and Shaun Hill. Plus they still have the big contract of Alex Smiths.

And I think if the Jags want a tackle that they will be happy with the OT from Alabama at #8.

MoreLemonPledge
04-03-2009, 05:09 PM
the 49ers have two qbs they like with Alex Smith and Shaun Hill. Plus they still have the big contract of Alex Smiths.

And I think if the Jags want a tackle that they will be happy with the OT from Alabama at #8.

Alex Smith restructured his contract last month. 2 years, $6.5m

L.A. Chieffan
04-03-2009, 05:29 PM
Alex Smith restructured his contract last month. 2 years, $6.5m

nice family guy reference NooBEBE

Chiefnj2
04-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Jax gave up extra picks last year, I doubt they do it 2 years in a row.

Brock
04-03-2009, 05:32 PM
the 49ers have two qbs they like with Alex Smith and Shaun Hill. Plus they still have the big contract of Alex Smiths.



I doubt they like either one of them that much.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-03-2009, 05:47 PM
Why?

Are you fucking serious?

DaneMcCloud
04-03-2009, 05:49 PM
If we trade down for Connor Barwin in the first round, everyone in the entire organization should be summarily executed.

Immediately

DaneMcCloud
04-03-2009, 05:49 PM
The people we're bringing in make me think we're not just trading out of the top 5, we're trading out of the top 20.

Exactly.

But I don't expect to see a defensive player chosen.

Actually, I'd be shocked.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 05:50 PM
Are you fucking serious?

Yes, I'm fucking serious the kid could be like Demarcus Ware.

The Bad Guy
04-03-2009, 05:54 PM
Yes, I'm ****ing serious the kid could be like Demarcus Ware.

He is nothing, absolutely nothing, like DeMarcus Ware.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 05:55 PM
the 49ers have two qbs they like with Alex Smith and Shaun Hill. Plus they still have the big contract of Alex Smiths.



they restructured Smith's contract, and seeming how it's just a real barnburner of a competition the 49ers would love to get their hands on an elite QB in this draft.


The Jags will be eyeing to move up because of lapses that Oher incurs at times.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-03-2009, 05:56 PM
Yes, I'm fucking serious the kid could be like Demarcus Ware.

Oh my God.

He's played one year of defensive football.

Yes he had a great combine.

Yes, he has great athleticism.

He is also rawer than raw.

Most people believe that he'd be a reach at 34, and you are seriously advocating taking him with a selection in the top half of round 1 (we aren't going to be able to trade down any more than that). Think about that.

Is he really any better of an athlete than Lawrence Sidbury? Not by much.

Is there any mock out there that has him even going in the first round that is by a reputable source whatsoever? I'll profess to never having seen one. Mayock, Wright, WalterFootball, Kiper, none of them have the guy as anything more than a second or third rounder.

Hell, I love the guy, I said he had Jared Allen type upside, but there is no way in hell I'm taking him with a first round pick.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 06:01 PM
He is nothing, absolutely nothing, like DeMarcus Ware.

Really?????????? How do you know that? Both were considered raw talents, and had eye popping measurables. Coupled with Barwin's immediate growth as a pass rusher( pass rushing technique) and with the kids athleticism the sky's the limit. I remember Hamas was slobbering on Gholston's knob about the same issues, but Barwin is apt study unlike Gholston.

LaChapelle
04-03-2009, 06:17 PM
Del Rio has got to be hanging by a thread. The Jags should pick who ever gives them immediate help.

Coogs
04-03-2009, 06:31 PM
There is nothing to compare Crabtree to A. Johnson or Fitz.

You do realize this is Kiper saying Crabtree compares to Johnson/Fitzgerald, and not Coogs don't you?

I know. Kiper's and idiot!

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-03-2009, 06:32 PM
Really?????????? How do you know that? Both were considered raw talents, and had eye popping measurables. Coupled with Barwin's immediate growth as a pass rusher( pass rushing technique) and with the kids athleticism the sky's the limit. I remember Hamas was slobbering on Gholston's knob about the same issues, but Barwin is apt study unlike Gholston.

FFS, this shit is retarded.

Vernon Gholston had 22.5 sacks in two years and he had a phenomenal combine. It's not his fault his dumbass, since-fired coach wanted to make him a read and react linebacker instead of a downhill killer while he buried him behind two vets.

Perhaps we should all bury Dorsey for being similarly misused.

booger
04-03-2009, 06:34 PM
If they would get the 12 and 18 with a trade back with denver or someother tradeback and get in the 15 or lower range and take Barwin i will be pissed. Clint Sintim would be a better reach at that point, a late first rounder is his range. Barwin is probably a 3rd round talent that with so much pub has moved up to a 2nd and maybe a late first. Sintim could go anywhere from 23 to the pats or a bit higher.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 06:39 PM
FFS, this shit is retarded.

Vernon Gholston had 22.5 sacks in two years and he had a phenomenal combine. It's not his fault his dumbass, since-fired coach wanted to make him a read and react linebacker instead of a downhill killer while he buried him behind two vets.



Huh-huh, not making a #6 pick a passrushing force, because they suddenly wanted him to dropback in coverage. Dude, it seems like he wasn't a good student hell,with the money in his pocket I would have him trot along the line with the apocalyptic sign"The End is Near" .

Still my point stands, and Barwin had 11 sacks this year so lets put production to rest.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-03-2009, 06:41 PM
Huh-huh, not making a #6 pick a passrushing force, because they suddenly wanted him to dropback in coverage. Dude, it seems like he wasn't a good student hell,with the money in his pocket I would have him trot along the line with the apocalyptic sign"The End is Near" .

Still my point stands, and Barwin had 11 sacks this year so lets put production to rest.

Did you overdose on fucktardery? Do you even know what kind of scheme Mangini ran and why that might be a problem?

Coogs
04-03-2009, 06:43 PM
Crabtree fellas, Crabtree. If we stay at #3. Crabtree should be the pick. Not Monroe. Not Curry. Not Orakpo. Crabtree.

bdeg
04-03-2009, 06:49 PM
If we trade down for Connor Barwin in the first round, everyone in the entire organization should be summarily executed.

Hamas, will you accept a $20 bet Barwin goes in the first(doesn't in your case)?

LaChapelle
04-03-2009, 06:51 PM
It use to be, if you had an extra LT you could rape a trade partner. I guess now that the Chiefs finally got Roaf replaced, they're a dime a dozen.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 07:31 PM
Please no, I'd rather have Heyward-Bey if you want a WR.

ChiefsCountry
04-03-2009, 08:14 PM
Please no, I'd rather have Heyward-Bey if you want a WR.

He reminds me alot of Alvin Harper, which would be the perfect compliment to Bowe.

htismaqe
04-03-2009, 08:16 PM
Please no, I'd rather have Heyward-Bey if you want a WR.

Why? The guy doesn't do anything well other than run a good 40 in shorts.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:17 PM
Why? The guy doesn't do anything well other than run a good 40 in shorts.

That is completely untrue, are you aware that he was playing for a team that he was literally the only good offensive player for?

His numbers are very respectable for having nothing around him.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:19 PM
2005 RS - - - -
2006 13 45 694 15.4 5
2007 13 51 786 15.4 3
2008 12 42 609 14.5 5
Totals 38 138 2,089 15.1 13

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htismaqe
04-03-2009, 08:27 PM
That is completely untrue, are you aware that he was playing for a team that he was literally the only good offensive player for?

His numbers are very respectable for having nothing around him.

I'm aware of his situation, and I'm also aware that he:

1) Lacks the ability to separate on short and intermediate routes

2) Doesn't excel running after the catch on short and intermediate routes

3) Runs poor routes

4) Has small hands

5) Doesn't have good technique and tends to catch the ball against his body.

I could go on, but I won't. There's a reason that almost every scouting report says that the team that takes him is going to have to be very patient. He's EXTREMELY raw and may never develop into a WR - right now he's a track star and that's really it.

htismaqe
04-03-2009, 08:29 PM
I must say though, he looks OK there for the first 4 minutes of that video.

Against DELAWARE.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:30 PM
Lets not mention the play where he owns Sydquan Thompson of Cal who was the best CB in the Pac 10 this past year.

ChiefsCountry
04-03-2009, 08:30 PM
I don't think Hayward-Bey will be a #1 but I think he can be a nice #2 in the league.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:32 PM
He's a little more than just a track guy....

Height: 6-15/8 | Weight: 210 | 40-Time: 4.30

Strengths:
A smooth, fluid athlete...Long strider with rare speed...Explosive with great acceleration and a burst...Quick and agile...Terrific height and bulk with long arms...Excellent leaper...Nice body control and ball skills...Tough and not afraid to work the middle...Vertical threat who can separate...Also a dangerous weapon on reverses...Great work ethic...Could also contribute as a return man...Still has a ton of upside.

Weaknesses:
Is inconsistent catching the ball and does not have great natural hands...Questionable instincts and awareness...Still very raw as a route runner...Not much wiggle and won't make people miss...Doesn't break a lot of tackles...Average strength...Marginal blocker...Has little or no special teams experience...Wasn't real productive..Workout Warrior?

Notes:
A three-year starter in the ACC...Was a track All-American in high school...Redshirted in 2005...A two-time All-ACC selection...Featured prominently in the Maryland record books, ranking second in career receiving yards, third in receptions and is tied for third in touchdown catches...Was grossly underutilized in the Terrapins offense and the quarterback play left much to be desired as well...Dynamic playmaker who is a threat to score every time he touches the ball...Intriguing prospect with top-flight measurables but might be a better athlete than football player...Boom or Bust type who will require some patience and development but he has all the tools to be a #1 wideout in the NFL.

htismaqe
04-03-2009, 08:37 PM
Lets not mention the play where he owns Sydquan Thompson of Cal who was the best CB in the Pac 10 this past year.

That's one play, dude.

Read the scouting report that you just posted.

You're obviously much more impressed with athleticism than I am. Gimme a football player every day.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:39 PM
At that position I am, for every one slowish guy that can play there are 100 Mike Williams that simply can't.

To me the athletic numbers matter for WR's and DB's more than any other because to me you either have it or you don't.

htismaqe
04-03-2009, 08:42 PM
At that position I am, for every one slowish guy that can play there are 100 Mike Williams that simply can't.

To me the athletic numbers matter for WR's and DB's more than any other because to me you either have it or you don't.

And for every fastish guy that can play there are 150 Ashley Lelie's that simply can't.

I mean, aren't you on record as saying that Dwayne Bowe doesn't have "it"?

That is, frankly, crazy talk.

Tribal Warfare
04-03-2009, 08:50 PM
Did you overdose on fucktardery?



nope, your acting like a little bitch honestly, I'm explaining my case while your acting like you're on the rag.

Mecca
04-03-2009, 08:53 PM
And for every fastish guy that can play there are 150 Ashley Lelie's that simply can't.

I mean, aren't you on record as saying that Dwayne Bowe doesn't have "it"?

That is, frankly, crazy talk.

Um no I never said that, I said he needs to learn to catch the ball.

Deberg_1990
04-03-2009, 09:07 PM
Um no I never said that, I said he needs to learn to catch the ball.

Clearly he does because he has far better stats than either T.O or Marvin Harrison at this point in their careers.


heh, theres always room for improvement.

Mr. Krab
04-03-2009, 09:21 PM
Wide receivers seem to be a huge boom/bust situation that i think we should avoid right now. I would rather draft another QB or OT than Crabtree.

Deberg_1990
04-03-2009, 09:23 PM
Wide receivers seem to be a huge boom/bust situation that i think we should avoid right now. I would rather draft another QB or OT than Crabtree.

I wouldnt draft a WR top 5 unless hes ELITE talent. I dont see that in Crabtree.

Coogs
04-03-2009, 09:51 PM
I wouldnt draft a WR top 5 unless hes ELITE talent. I dont see that in Crabtree.

Kiper does though. You can't even tell me you wouldn't take Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson at #3. If he has Crabtree in that threesome, it is worth the pick and the cash.A Bowe and Crabtree combo is faster than Fitzgerald and Boldin and they make it work. And Haley knows how they make it work.

The Bad Guy
04-03-2009, 09:54 PM
Kiper does though. You can't even tell me you wouldn't take Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson at #3. If he has Crabtree in that threesome, it is worth the pick and the cash.A Bowe and Crabtree combo is faster than Fitzgerald and Boldin and they make it work. And Haley knows how they make it work.

I think speed is very overrated at receiver.

You can have all the straight line speed in the world - if you can't run routes, it doesn't matter.

Fitzgerald and Boldin are incredible route runners. I didn't see Crabtree as that last year.

I wouldn't have a problem taking him - I just don't see how he's even remotely in the same league as Fitz or AJ.

Coogs
04-03-2009, 09:58 PM
I wouldn't have a problem taking him - I just don't see how he's even remotely in the same league as Fitz or AJ.

That is Kipers comparison, not Coogs. I did see him play in person vs KSU this year, and I left impressed. Not that that means anything, but I do value what Kiper says.

Deberg_1990
04-03-2009, 10:09 PM
Kiper does though. You can't even tell me you wouldn't take Fitzgerald or Andre Johnson at #3. If he has Crabtree in that threesome, it is worth the pick and the cash.A Bowe and Crabtree combo is faster than Fitzgerald and Boldin and they make it work. And Haley knows how they make it work.

Ill say this,

If Pioli and Haley pick him then ive got no problem with it. I trust they know what they are doing.

Id rather they take Crabtree at #3 over Curry honestly. At least WR is a position that justifies paying that type of money to.

Thats why i question the Curry pick at #3.

SBK
04-03-2009, 10:15 PM
Ill say this,

If Pioli and Haley pick him then ive got no problem with it. I trust they know what they are doing.

Id rather they take Crabtree at #3 over Curry honestly. At least WR is a position that justifies paying that type of money to.

Thats why i question the Curry pick at #3.

If we stay at 3 and don't take a QB anyone we pick will cause me to stuff my face until I puke. Maybe even take up drinking again. The draft will officially be teh boringz and teh suk.

BigChiefFan
04-03-2009, 11:38 PM
At this point, bring on the fucking draft. Let's see what Pioli is made of. He's got everything he needs to make his mark. I believe we are going to kiss ass and take names-this guy is impressive in his approach, I can't wait until the fans get to see the move. Sweet, Jesus.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-04-2009, 01:36 AM
nope, your acting like a little bitch honestly, I'm explaining my case while your acting like you're on the rag.

Your case involves insanely overrating him by comparing him to someone he shares almost no similarities to.

It's not my fault you're an idiot.

Tribal Warfare
04-04-2009, 02:20 AM
It's not my fault you're an idiot.

aaah namecalling, just like middle school

milkman
04-04-2009, 08:52 AM
Ill say this,

If Pioli and Haley pick him then ive got no problem with it. I trust they know what they are doing.

Id rather they take Crabtree at #3 over Curry honestly. At least WR is a position that justifies paying that type of money to.

Thats why i question the Curry pick at #3.

You know, I've argued as vociferously against drafting Curry at #3 as anyone here, yet I would rather draft Curry than Crabtree.

Michael Crabtree is not Larry Fitzgerald.

He isn't a disciplined route runner with incredible athleticism and the ability to outleap defenders and make spectacular catches routinely.

He is a slow WR with good hands.

Drafting Crabtree #3 overall would be monumentally stupid.

Coogs
04-04-2009, 09:10 AM
You know, I've argued as vociferously against drafting Curry at #3 as anyone here, yet I would rather draft Curry than Crabtree.

Michael Crabtree is not Larry Fitzgerald.

He isn't a disciplined route runner with incredible athleticism and the ability to outleap defenders and make spectacular catches routinely.

He is a slow WR with good hands.

Drafting Crabtree #3 overall would be monumentally stupid.

Ususally I agree with you Milkman, but I have to disagree with you this time. His 40 time is listed as virtually the same as Fitzgerald, so I would not say he is exactly slow.

And I really believe if you put Bowe on one side and Crabtree on the other, it will make it virtually imposssible for teams to put 8 in the box. I just don't see Bradley being able to do that if we ignore the WR spot. And I am not so sure any of the WR's from the 3rd round on down would be an improvement to that situation.

And we must build a much stronger defense that Gun was able to put on the field. That is a given. But this isn't a 1 year fix, and there are much better defenders in next years draft at the top. Add some defenders in rounds 3 and on. Then finish out the defense next year. But, even with a great defense, sometimes you must have the offenses to be able to pull out a game.

We don't have to go back to the "greatest show on turf" type of offense. Cassel showed he could make an offense move with pretty good talent around him in NE. Crabtree could be the piece that could make this offense really open up for the RB and for Gonzo as well.

milkman
04-04-2009, 09:22 AM
Ususally I agree with you Milkman, but I have to disagree with you this time. His 40 time is listed as virtually the same as Fitzgerald, so I would not say he is exactly slow.

And I really believe if you put Bowe on one side and Crabtree on the other, it will make it virtually imposssible for teams to put 8 in the box. I just don't see Bradley being able to do that if we ignore the WR spot. And I am not so sure any of the WR's from the 3rd round on down would be an improvement to that situation.

And we must build a much stronger defense that Gun was able to put on the field. That is a given. But this isn't a 1 year fix, and there are much better defenders in next years draft at the top. Add some defenders in rounds 3 and on. Then finish out the defense next year. But, even with a great defense, sometimes you must have the offenses to be able to pull out a game.

We don't have to go back to the "greatest show on turf" type of offense. Cassel showed he could make an offense move with pretty good talent around him in NE. Crabtree could be the piece that could make this offense really open up for the RB and for Gonzo as well.

Fitzgerald isn't fast.

4.5 is slow for a WR.

What separates Fitzgerald is his precise routes, incredible athletic ability, and his incredible concentration and hands, and Crabtree isn't in the same league.

I'd rather reach for Jeremy Macklin than draft Crabtree.

Ralphy Boy
04-04-2009, 09:38 AM
I just can't really seeing anyone wanting to trade up yet. Maybe it will happen, but I am just not seeing it yet. And most every single defender there is in the draft would not be ranked near this high in a different year. Look at next year for instance. How high would Curry be ranked in next years class? Orakpo?

Crabtree is the highest ranked offensive player there is on some boards. We don't need a LT. Crabtree not only makes sense, but an Andre Johnson/Larry Fitzgerald is not only worthy of the #3 money, but worthy of the #3 pick as well.

Seattle needs a LT and will likely take either Monroe or Smith. Any team below us that wants one will have to trade with us.

With all the changes (Winslow, Housmandzadeh) or uncertainty (Stallworth, Chad Johnson) in Cleveland & Cincy, I can't see Crabtree getting past # 6.

Denver will be looking to trade up with Jacksonville to get ahead of San Fran to snag Sanchez.

Mr. Krab
04-04-2009, 10:32 AM
That is Kipers comparison, not Coogs. I did see him play in person vs KSU this year, and I left impressed. Not that that means anything, but I do value what Kiper says.
Hehe, Coogs is now talking in 3rd person. LMAO

At least I would think that Haley would be able to evaluate the talent level of a wide receiver after working with Fitz and Boldin. He should have a better than average chance at knowing whether Crabtree is the next Fitz or whatever.

eazyb81
04-04-2009, 12:00 PM
You do realize this is Kiper saying Crabtree compares to Johnson/Fitzgerald, and not Coogs don't you?

I know. Kiper's and idiot!

It doesn't matter who is saying it. I keep hearing the comp to Johnson or Fitzgerald, but I think it's absolutely ridiculous.

Crabtree is slower, smaller, and less athletic than both. He has worse ball skills, runs crappier routes, and is coming out of a pass-happy spread system that inflated his stats.

Do you think Crabtree would be considered a top 3 pick if he went to, say, Pitt for college instead of Texas Tech?

I think this is just another case of hype for a player getting out of control.

htismaqe
04-04-2009, 12:04 PM
I wouldnt draft a WR top 5 unless hes ELITE talent. I dont see that in Crabtree.

This.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-04-2009, 12:45 PM
aaah namecalling, just like middle school

Priceless.

nope, your acting like a little bitch honestly, I'm explaining my case while your acting like you're on the rag.

Coogs
04-04-2009, 12:55 PM
I know this isn't Johnson or Fitzgerald, but look at this on Boldin based off of his combine and workouts...

ANQUAN BOLDIN
Position: WR
Class: Underclassman
School: Florida St.
Conference: ACC
Ht., Wt.: 6'0, 216
40 Time: 4.75
Grade: 3.56

Selected by Arizona Cardinals
Round 2, pick 22 (54 overall)
BIO: Junior entry who leaves school a year early after winning second team All-Conference Honors, leading Florida State in all receiving categories with 65 catches, 1, 011 yards and 13 scores. Sat out the 2001 campaign after suffering a season ending knee injury during pre-season drills. Ranked third on the team as a sophomore in receiving with 41-664-6. Performed terribly at the Combine, running poorly and struggling during pass catching drills. Has been used sporadically at QB. Recently ran a 4.59 during Pro-Day workouts in Tallahassee.

POSITIVES: Nice-sized wide out who consistently makes positive plays for the offense. Extends and catches the pass away from his frame, boxes out defenders and effectively runs after the reception. Adjusts to the errant throw, reaching back to catch the ball without breaking stride. Settles into the open spot on the field, looks the pass into his hands and pulls the throw out of the air. Displays focus, concentration and timing.

NEGATIVES: Not quick off the line of scrimmage, lacks sharpness running routes and overall quickness. Does not have the second gear or have separation downfield.

ANALYSIS: Not as bad as he looked at the Combine but his draft ranking will suffer none the less. A viable possession receiver at the next level who sneaks it downfield on occasion.

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I just see Bowe and Crabtree being Boldin and Fitzgerald all over again. My first preferance would be Sanchez at #3. Crabtree would be my second choice.

And before any of you burst a blood vessel to your brains, the Chiefs pretty much never pick who I want them to pick. Never have. I don't expect things to change much just because a new regime is in control. My guess is an OT, 'cause that is about the last thing I want to see right now.

milkman
04-04-2009, 01:10 PM
The reson the Fitz/Boldin combo works is because of Fitz, and Bowe is no Larry Fitzgerald.

Coogs
04-04-2009, 01:15 PM
The reson the Fitz/Boldin combo works is because of Fitz, and Bowe is no Larry Fitzgerald.

Boldin in 2003 without Fitzgerald...
rec/yds/ave/long/TDs
101 1,377 13.6 71T 8

Saccopoo
04-04-2009, 01:46 PM
If the Chiefs wanted to pick up a wideout in the draft, this is the one of the few guys I'd really consider this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dem5aN5ENf0&feature=related

Mecca
04-04-2009, 01:51 PM
Lets understand Boldin basically had the worst day of his life at the combine.

I really wish people wouldn't compare Crabtree to players he's not like just because they run bad 40's doesn't mean they're the same. What about Mike Williams his 40 was right in the same line....

Lets start looking at WR's that Crabtree compares too and when you actually realistically look at them he's not a top 10 pick, the guys that get brought up say Boldin 2nd round pick...

The fact that people think Crabtree is a top 5 player and Hakeem Nicks is a fringe 1st rounder is frankly stats and nothing else. Similar hands, Nicks is slightly larger, similar speed...Nicks comes from a pro style system with a proper route tree and is actually a better deep threat because he knows how to get open down field...Crabtree has better stats.

There is not a full round separating those players.

ChiefsCountry
04-04-2009, 02:06 PM
If the Chiefs wanted to pick up a wideout in the draft, this is the one of the few guys I'd really consider this year:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dem5aN5ENf0&feature=related

Our MWC homer.

Mecca
04-04-2009, 02:11 PM
Oh geat, a little white guy from a mormon school...he'd be the new shitty guy who everyone gets attached to.

B_Ambuehl
04-04-2009, 02:17 PM
I like Nicks better than Crabtree. He has great quickness and elusiveness after the catch.

Mecca
04-04-2009, 02:18 PM
Hakeem Nicks reminds me quite a bit of Reggie Wayne.

Count Alex's Wins
04-04-2009, 02:19 PM
Jesus Christ.

You don't spend the NUMBER THREE FUCKING PICK on a wide receiver unless he stretches the fucking field.

Garcia Bronco
04-04-2009, 02:20 PM
I have always thought it's just stupid to take a WR that early.

Garcia Bronco
04-04-2009, 02:21 PM
The reson the Fitz/Boldin combo works is because of Fitz, and Bowe is no Larry Fitzgerald.

No WR is LF. I watched him torch us regularly in college.

Mecca
04-04-2009, 02:23 PM
I have always thought it's just stupid to take a WR that early.

It depends what WR it is, it's acceptable to take Calvin Johnson that high.

Garcia Bronco
04-04-2009, 02:25 PM
It depends what WR it is, it's acceptable to take Calvin Johnson that high.Maybe every one in a while. I watched both Fitz and Johnson play in college, and as good as Johnson is I think he's miles away from LF.

Mecca
04-04-2009, 02:30 PM
Maybe every one in a while. I watched both Fitz and Johnson play in college, and as good as Johnson is I think he's miles away from LF.

Maybe today, but lets understand Calvin Johnson is still very young and playing on and awful team and actually producing. He has every natural gift you could ask someone to have. Great size, speed, hands...there isn't a thing he doesn't have or can't do.

Saccopoo
04-04-2009, 02:53 PM
Oh geat, a little white guy from a mormon school...he'd be the new shitty guy who everyone gets attached to.

Why you gotta pull the racist attitude Mecca?

Personally, I don't care if Collie is purple and is a Mormon. I loathe all things BYU, but the guy can play. Separates after the catch, is fast, runs great routes, has size (6'1", 205 lb. isn't all that "little"), makes the acrobatic catch - hell, he makes every catch, etc. I guess that doesn't translate into your conceptualizations of what a NFL wideout needs to be - the second coming of Renaldo Nehemiah.

What's it going to take to make you happy? Oh, I know - Chiefs draft Sanchez (because that one year of starting in college against a bag o' crap conference is a real indicator of how good of a pro he's going to be), then trade Cassell for two picks where the Chiefs get Brian Bosworth-Cushing and Darrius Nehemiah-Bey. Yeah! Super duper!

Mecca
04-04-2009, 02:57 PM
Mark Sanchez has nothing to do with what I look for in WR's...

And the white guy comment was for a reason, this market loves guys like that. People acted like Marc Boerigter was going to be a star because he was a white guy playing WR.

He's just not what I look for in WR's, you wanna give me a mid round WR, Brandon Tate.

Saccopoo
04-05-2009, 03:17 AM
Mark Sanchez has nothing to do with what I look for in WR's...

And the white guy comment was for a reason, this market loves guys like that. People acted like Marc Boerigter was going to be a star because he was a white guy playing WR.

He's just not what I look for in WR's, you wanna give me a mid round WR, Brandon Tate.

Eh...It's hard to look at Tate without considering how much Nicks demanded in terms of defensive assignments, especially in the ACC.

I think Collie is going to be downgraded by people for a couple of reasons:

1. He played in a "lesser" conference, although Utah laying it on Alabama should be reason enough to discount this. As well as the number of players who've come out of the MWC and have played well - Steve Smith at Carolina as wide receiver as an example.

2. He played in a spread offense which allowed him to put up his insane numbers. However, BYU has a very long history of putting up insane offensive numbers, and Collie basically holds every BYU receiving record and he's only a junior.

3. He's caucasian. People think of white wide receivers as the ultimate "hands" guy, the third wideout possession guy at best. However, watch him. He's fast, can separate, runs precision routes, has glue for hands, will happily block in run support, and has a nasty-ish attitude. If he was a black guy in a major conference, he's no worse than a round three pick. It's football position perception.

Collie is a special player, and someone is going to steal this guy in the draft. I hope it's the Chiefs. It's not like they could use someone at wideout to actually run a decent route, block on run plays and catch a ball god forbid and get away from the defender once they do.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 08:08 PM
Too many needs elsewhere....

Besides, Kiper's evaluation of one Charles Rogers would also give me pause about his WR takes.... :eek:

Jerm
04-05-2009, 08:14 PM
Too many needs elsewhere....

Besides, Kiper's evaluation of one Charles Rogers would also give me pause about his WR takes.... :eek:

His analysis of Mike Williams was even scarier. ROFL

If you want a WR, why not trade down a few spots, gain more picks, and take Maclin who is a better fit and will be cheaper?

bdeg
04-05-2009, 08:18 PM
His analysis of Mike Williams was even scarier. ROFL

If you want a WR, why not trade down a few spots, gain more picks, and take Maclin who is a better fit and will be cheaper?

I believe if they're targeting a WR in the first(doubt it, especially considering the guys we've brought in) this is the right idea, the only question being the value of trades offered. I don't really like Macklin as a top 15 pick though, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as many on here, though. It's hard to know what caused the differences in 40 times between his combine and proday. Especially with the controversy with the timing this year.

KCrockaholic
04-06-2009, 12:18 AM
I believe if they're targeting a WR in the first(doubt it, especially considering the guys we've brought in) this is the right idea, the only question being the value of trades offered. I don't really like Macklin as a top 15 pick though, to tell you the truth. I haven't seen nearly as much of him as many on here, though. It's hard to know what caused the differences in 40 times between his combine and proday. Especially with the controversy with the timing this year.

Maclin's speed is interesting because during a game he can seem to fly downfield and return kicks with his speed. But at the combine he didnt run a 4.35 like so many people basically expected. I like Maclin a lot, because I am a homer. But I also truly believe he will be a darn good player in the NFL thanks to his multi-purpose playing style. He set the record for all-purpose yards as a freshman which was pretty amazing. He has very nice size for a receiver but he lacks the ability to stay healthy during an entire season. He may end up being one of those "what ifs" that is never able to play a full season and has his career cut short due to a big injury. I have him rated as the 11th best player on my top 20 board. He shall be fun to watch when hes healthy.

Coogs
04-08-2009, 08:34 PM
Pretty good Crabtree article...


http://www.cbssports.com/nfl/draft/story/11604213


Teams with seeds of doubt can't see forest for the Crabtree
April 7, 2009
By Clark Judge
CBSSports.com Senior Writer

I just saw one mock draft that had Texas Tech wide receiver Michael Crabtree going at the seventh pick to Oakland, which is fine except Michael Crabtree is not the seventh-best player in this year's draft. He might be the second, and he's no worse than the third.

Of course, that doesn't mean he won't drop down the board. Adrian Peterson was one of the top three players in the 2007 draft, and he lasted until the seventh spot. What it does mean is that Crabtree should not drop, with Peterson the textbook example why.


Crabtree has a knack for making tremendous plays. Like Peterson, there are injury concerns about Crabtree -- except this is a stress fracture in his foot that Crabtree said he played with and didn't consider a big deal until doctors at the February scouting combine got hold of him. So he underwent surgery, scratched his Pro Day and, basically, said, "I'll let my work speak for itself."

And his work makes him a top three choice -- just as Peterson's did.

The problem, of course, is that when you draft in the top five you want to make sure you don't make a mistake, and injuries -- or the threat of injuries -- scare off potential suitors. Peterson was on Cleveland's radar in 2007 until the Browns discovered he reinjured his collarbone in the Fiesta Bowl. So they passed with the third pick and chose tackle Joe Thomas instead. Fortunately for the Browns, the move worked out.

But it worked out better for Minnesota, which rode Peterson to the playoffs last year. All the second-year back did was lead the league in rushing, average 4.8 yards a carry, produce 10 touchdowns and carry the Vikings on his back. I know wide receivers seldom have that impact -- particularly rookie wide receivers -- but I'd sure hate to be the club that passed on the next Randy Moss or Larry Fitzgerald.

"Michael Crabtree," said one pro scout, "is a big, strong guy who can play. Plus, he's a good kid. He's had a lot of exposure in a passing offense, and he's a strong-handed guy who plays as fast as he times. He's not going to run away from you, but he has exceptional quickness. He's a big-time player who will make a good pro."

Notice there wasn't anything in there about Crabtree as a risk. That's because it wasn't mentioned. In fact, when I brought up his injury and his size (he's 6-feet-1/2;, not 6-3) the scout scoffed at the idea, saying neither was a concern. Bottom line, he told me, this is the best wide receiver out there and one of the top prospects at his position in years.

"So then buyers shouldn't beware?" I asked.

"Absolutely not," he said.

So let's see where he goes. You can scratch Detroit at the first spot because the Lions exceeded the statute of limitations on first-round wide receivers and need a quarterback/offensive lineman more. He probably doesn't go to St. Louis at No. 2 because the Rams must straighten out an offensive line with more holes than the Garden State Parkway, and there are two top-shelf tackles out there.

I can't see Kansas City making a play for him at the third position, either, because wide receiver isn't an urgent need. That takes me to Seattle, and if Michael Crabtree is there, coach Jim Mora has a decision to make: Draft for need or draft the best player on the board.

If it's the best player, Crabtree gets the call.

Yeah, I know the Seahawks signed T.J. Houshmandzadeh, but so what? He catches a lot of balls, but he's not a big-play threat. Crabtree is, scoring 41 touchdowns in two seasons at Texas Tech, with 231 catches and 15 100-yard games. He caught 15 passes in one start, 14 in another and never had fewer than four receptions in any game. He had a string of 13 straight contests with at least one touchdown and set the NCAA freshman record for scoring catches in a season. He won the Bilentikoff and Warfield awards. Twice. He was named all to the Big-12 and All-America teams.

In short, he was the best receiver out there.

But he has a stress fracture that has some scouts questioning his durability, and, I'm sorry, I'm out of that club. I heard the same conversation last year about Oregon running back Jonathan Stewart, and the Carolina Panthers weren't fazed. They took him with the 13th pick, and Stewart didn't miss a game. More important, he set team rookie records for rushing and touchdowns.

I heard it with Peterson, too. And I heard it in 2001 with defensive tackle Shaun Rogers, whose stock plunged when he underwent ankle surgery before the combine. Only two teams weren't scared off -- Detroit and Baltimore -- and the Lions got to him at the bottom of the second round before Baltimore could. Rogers didn't miss a start that season and led all defensive linemen in tackles.

I guess what I'm saying is not to dissect this guy too carefully -- or, as Paul Zimmerman of Sports Illustrated used to put it, don't get caught in paralysis by analysis. There's a reason Crabtree was named the country's best receiver the past two seasons, and don't let an X-ray confuse you. Crabtree is the real deal, much like Larry Fitzgerald was the real deal in 2004. The Arizona Cardinals took him with the third pick and were ripped for their decision. Yeah, well, look who's laughing now.

If you're going to pass on Crabtree it better be for a good reason.