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rrl308
04-05-2009, 09:07 PM
Move Along, Nothing to See Here
Homeless in Tent City, USA
By KATHY SANBORN

Homeless encampments around the country are mushrooming, much to the embarrassment of government officials, may of whom prefer to hear no evil, see no evil. In Fresno, California, a shantytown called “New Jack City” is host to newly poor, unemployed electricians and truck drivers, who share space with drug addicts and the mentally ill who have been homeless for years.

And, thanks to Oprah, Sacramento is famous for its homeless tent city, featuring several hundred people residing in pitched tents bordering the American River. With refuse strewn everywhere, and no potable water or bathroom facilities, this celebrated shantytown is clearly a sanitation risk.

Almost as soon as the media ran with the story, plans were made to shut down the Sacramento tent city in the foreseeable future. City officials will relocate the homeless to other, presumably more sanitary, areas (e.g., at the site of the state fairgrounds, Cal Expo). According to the Sacramento Bee, “homeless campers” will be ousted in about four weeks, as the private property will be fenced off to ban the tent city population.

California’s capital is not the only city to be brought to its knees by photos of disheveled citizens with nebulous futures. Reports of burgeoning tent cities in Nevada, Tennessee, and Washington State (just to name a few) have kept local governments hopping to fix the trouble before the media spotlight targets their own cities.

Spotlight on Shantytown in Sacramento

Initial reports of huge numbers of people living in the tent city in Sacramento probably were inflated, we know now. Estimates of 1200 tent dwellers were simply exaggerated by overzealous or slapdash journalists. Incorrect numbers aside, the problem remains: the new poor and the chronically homeless live side by side, with nothing but a cloth roof over their heads.

I spoke with Sister Libby, executive director of the now-infamous Loaves and Fishes in Sacramento, which provides charitable assistance to the hungry and homeless.

Sister Libby said, “We have over two to three hundred folks here in the Sacramento tent city. At its height, about 2-3 new faces a day were showing up. Of the tent city population, 80-85% have been homeless for over a year. Only about 10-15% are the “new poor” – those with a recent job loss or home foreclosure.

We have seen a lot of new faces – mostly women with children – coming in to find shelter.

Last year, according to Sacramento government statistics, the countywide homeless total was around 1200 people. It’s probably more like 1400 now.

Since they have decided to close the tent city in Sacramento and provide 150 extra shelter beds in other locations for these folks, I worry about the people who are mentally ill or have drug and alcohol issues – which comprise about 50% of the tent city residents. They aren’t shelter-ready. What is the government going to do with them?”
Mayor Kevin Johnson said the city’s shelter demand has increased “four-fold.” The executive director of St. John’s Shelter in Sacramento said they turn away 230 women and children each day, as opposed to the twenty turned away daily in 2007. These numbers indicate a dramatic explosion of growth in the homeless population, but many are hesitant to attribute this sudden rise in homelessness to the current economic downturn.

Modern Hoovervilles Abound

City officials in Fresno report three major homeless encampments adjacent to the downtown area, and smaller sites near the highways. All told, Fresno’s homeless population is about two thousand people, living in shantytowns with grim names such as Taco Flats or the aforementioned New Jack City. Drugs, violence, and prostitution are common in the Fresno tent cities, as people react to the stress of living outdoors with no services – and no money.

Individuals in Seattle, Washington who have lost their jobs and homes reside in tents in the back of a church parking lot, derogatorily called Nickelsville. Named for Seattle Mayor Greg Nickels, whom residents say doesn’t much care about their plight, the Nickelsville shantytown is home to about one hundred campers a day.

Nashville, Tennessee has its own problems with tent cities. According to NewsChannel5.com, Nashville has one large tent city south of the downtown area, with at least thirty additional homeless camps scattered throughout the region. There is a concern about this “huge surge in the number of encampments,” and the issue has reached “urgent” proportions. Attributing the rise in homelessness to the faltering economy that brings with it increased foreclosures and job layoffs, city officials are seeking answers – and fast – to their local homeless crisis.

In Reno, Nevada, officials closed a tent city in 2008 that housed about 160 residents. Now, the sidewalks of Reno serve as beds to some sixty homeless people with nowhere else to go. There are homeless camps on Record Street, and local merchants believe their business is down because of the sea of homeless vagabonds invading store sidewalks and blocking customer access to shops.

Reno officials are attempting to prevent another tent city from emerging in the summer of 2009, but with less revenue available for alternative housing, this remains to be seen.

What can we conclude from the rapid increase in homelessness across the nation? The facts are clear: there are more people, especially women and children, who are out on the streets, without a dime. At least 10-15% of homeless individuals are the “new poor,” or those who have recently lost their jobs and homes. We can be certain that if the economy doesn’t improve soon, there will be more of the new poor pitching their tents in shantytowns across America – maybe in your neighborhood.

http://www.counterpunch.org/sanborn04032009.html

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Move. Walk. Hitch-hike, work a minimum wage job...for as long as it takes, to earn bus fare somewhere they can get a real job (maybe not a place they "like," but one where they can get a job....there are plenty of communities out here....IF, IF, IF they really want a job....)

Of course, instead....they can play to the media, and pretend that there is NO, NO, NO jobs to be found. "Gosh! Poor, poor, poor....pitiful me....look at how desperate, desperate, desperate...we are. Can you please call Oprah for us---I'll bet she or MSNBC will send a crew out....tomorrow? Please, can you?"

:hmmm:

SBK
04-05-2009, 09:18 PM
Hoover had his Hoovervilles, Obama is getting his Obamavilles.

See, history does repeat itself. :)

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 09:22 PM
Hoover had his Hoovervilles, Obama is getting his Obamavilles.

See, history does repeat itself. :)


You know what they'll say don't you.....these aren't "Obamavilles" they are "Bushvilles."

Guarantee it. No doubt about it. UP, jAZ, banyon, BRC, or penchief will be in to inform us....shortly.

Heh. ;)

SBK
04-05-2009, 09:23 PM
You know what they'll say don't you.....these aren't "Obamavilles" they are "Bushvilles."

Guarantee it. No doubt about it. UP, jAZ, banyon, BRC, or penchief will be in to inform us....shortly.

Heh. ;)

I would be willing to bet back in Hoover's day his supporters tried to pass blame along as well.

That being said, this economy is not yet Obama's fault, but it will be when he's up for re-election in a few years.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 09:33 PM
I would be willing to bet back in Hoover's day his supporters tried to pass blame along as well.

That being said, this economy is not yet Obama's fault, but it will be when he's up for re-election in a few years.

Big difference....the only folks critics could have "blamed" back then was either Harding or Coolidge (fellow Republicans.)

Obama has the good fortune of being from the "opposing" party...so we'll see the argument this time, for the next year or two anyway.

So far, I think the GM decision, basically, Obama took on the future of the Automobile Industry in this country as his own will be the real telling story in the 2010 midterms, and maybe 2012. If it works out, he'll win; if it doesn't it'll be the excuse to....begin a Republican resurgence, or kick him to the curb. Time will tell.

googlegoogle
04-05-2009, 09:33 PM
It's stupid how they're moving them.

Give them fresh water and piping for restrooms if they're so damn concerned of sanitation.

They're is nothing wrong with these temporary housing/tent cities.

Native and American settlers made they're homes out of dung and tree limbs.

The government should be accommodating them some.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 09:43 PM
Move. Walk. Hitch-hike, work a minimum wage job...for as long as it takes, to earn bus fare somewhere they can get a real job (maybe not a place they "like," but one where they can get a job....there are plenty of communities out here....IF, IF, IF they really want a job....)

Of course, instead....they can play to the media, and pretend that there is NO, NO, NO jobs to be found. "Gosh! Poor, poor, poor....pitiful me....look at how desperate, desperate, desperate...we are. Can you please call Oprah for us---I'll bet she or MSNBC will send a crew out....tomorrow? Please, can you?"

:hmmm:

You really are a fucking idiot at times. You think people choose to be homeless and live in hovels just to play to the media? :rolleyes:

wild1
04-05-2009, 10:01 PM
80-85% of them, the article says, have been homeless for more than a year.

So these people aren't newly homeless, they are chronically homeless. Why are they all the sudden locating in this tent city? Did it just happen or is it only now getting covered? I have seen some ink on this lately but I struggle with what the significance is.

I remember seeing a show on tv a long while ago, where they talked to some of these people in san fransisco. several were young people who just chose to live that lifestyle. They had family, one of them I remember called his mother sometimes and she begged him to come home, but he wanted to live this migratory lifestyle, it was interesting.

wild1
04-05-2009, 10:07 PM
You really are a ****ing idiot at times. You think people choose to be homeless

define "choose"

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:12 PM
define "choose"


Someone who was recently working and lost there job and home I do not think are choosing to be homeless to play to the media.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:12 PM
You really are a ****ing idiot at times. You think people choose to be homeless and live in hovels just to play to the media? :rolleyes:


I interviewed some of them in writing my MA thesis...I know a chunk of them choose it. Any "research" by you, at all, would have saved you the embarrassment of not knowing otherwise. But, you are "pete."

;)

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:13 PM
I interviewed some of them in writing my MA thesis...I know a chunk of them choose it. Any "research" by you, at all, would have saved you the embarrassment of not knowing otherwise. But, you are "pete."

;)

Sure you did.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:15 PM
Sure you did.


Research it yourself, if you don't believe me. I wasn't the first, or the last. :)

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 10:22 PM
80-85% of them, the article says, have been homeless for more than a year.

So these people aren't newly homeless, they are chronically homeless. Why are they all the sudden locating in this tent city? Did it just happen or is it only now getting covered? I have seen some ink on this lately but I struggle with what the significance is.

I remember seeing a show on tv a long while ago, where they talked to some of these people in san fransisco. several were young people who just chose to live that lifestyle. They had family, one of them I remember called his mother sometimes and she begged him to come home, but he wanted to live this migratory lifestyle, it was interesting.

I think it's the 10-15% that are the problem. There are 2-3 more that come each day, the article also says (mostly women with shildren). With a crowd of 200-300, the percentages would soon flip at that rate.

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:30 PM
When my business went bankrupt a few years ago I ended up homeless. Lucky for me I was able to sleep on the floor at my mom's apartment--others have nowhere to go.

I have a lot of sympathy for the homeless, because none of them wanted to get there. But I am confident in saying it was their choices that led them to that spot in life.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:33 PM
When my business went bankrupt a few years ago I ended up homeless. Lucky for me I was able to sleep on the floor at my mom's apartment--others have nowhere to go.

I have a lot of sympathy for the homeless, because none of them wanted to get there. But I am confident in saying it was their choices that led them to that spot in life.

So your choices led you to sleep on your mom's floor?

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:35 PM
So your choices led you to sleep on your mom's floor?

Yep. My choices, mostly huge mistakes led me from a multi-million dollar home at 25 to homeless at 26-27, somewhere in there. Funny thing is I'm thankful for going through all of that, because I learned a ton more than I ever would have had I not messed up so bad. Not saying it didn't suck though.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:39 PM
Yep. My choices, mostly huge mistakes led me from a multi-million dollar home at 25 to homeless at 26-27, somewhere in there. Funny thing is I'm thankful for going through all of that, because I learned a ton more than I ever would have had I not messed up so bad. Not saying it didn't suck though.

so you don't think there are those that suffer because of the actions of others?

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:41 PM
Yep. My choices, mostly huge mistakes led me from a multi-million dollar home at 25 to homeless at 26-27, somewhere in there. Funny thing is I'm thankful for going through all of that, because I learned a ton more than I ever would have had I not messed up so bad. Not saying it didn't suck though.

No, no...that COULD NOT be. Pete says it can't be; so it isn't. NO ONE ever, "chooses" that lot. Ever, ever, ever!

Even though, empirically, research says many "do."

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. pete prefers...."La-La Land." :)

so you don't think there are those that suffer because of the actions of others?

Oh...so, let's change the subject, now...... :rolleyes:

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 10:42 PM
But I am confident in saying it was their choices that led them to that spot in life.

Do you believe the market plays no role in something like that?

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:42 PM
No, no...that COULD NOT be. Pete says it can't be; so it isn't. NO ONE ever, "chooses" that lot. Ever, ever, ever!

Even though, empirically, research says many "do."

Shhhhhhhhhhhhhh. pete prefers...."La-La Land." :)

That is not what I said...but whatever

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:44 PM
Do you believe the market plays no role in something like that?


No matter how much you and pete wanna CHANGE the point....that is NOT the point. The point is some, even "many" by some standards, "choose" it.

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 10:44 PM
Can you please call Oprah for us---I'll bet she or MSNBC will send a crew out....tomorrow? Please, can you?"


It's much easier if we just ignore them and pretend like they don't exist. They will die at some point anyway.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:45 PM
It's much easier if we just ignore them and pretend like they don't exist. They will die at some point anyway.

I know. I hear/read/listen to news of their funerals every day. Every day, I say.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 10:46 PM
It's much easier if we just ignore them and pretend like they don't exist. They will die at some point anyway.

Then he can research why there are so many dead people in the streets and not in the cemetery.

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 10:47 PM
No matter how much you and pete wanna CHANGE the point....that is NOT the point. The point is some, even "many" by some standards, "choose" it.

The women and children chose the tent city; the 2-3 people who allegedly arrive there every day chose this new poverished state of being. I think they were forced into it -- they were forced into being homeless and jobless. Did choices lead up to it? Yes. Is that entirely it? No. About half it.

Mr. Kotter
04-05-2009, 10:49 PM
Then he can research why there are so many dead people in the streets and not in the cemetery.

Link???

:hmmm:

Oh, wait....you don't really have one.....

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:52 PM
so you don't think there are those that suffer because of the actions of others?

Absolutely there are. But then it was their choice to be associated with those people.

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 10:53 PM
I know. I hear/read/listen to news of their funerals every day. Every day, I say.

They're not dying. But the absense of death isn't mere cause for our satisfaction. The best thing the media can do is show how people are affected by the recession, yet you seem to have a problem showing these people on TV because they are in some sort of conspiracy (they're not really doing bad) you have invented in your mind.

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:53 PM
Do you believe the market plays no role in something like that?

The market just reveals your mistakes.

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:54 PM
It's much easier if we just ignore them and pretend like they don't exist. They will die at some point anyway.

No. These folks need help, and thank goodness there are so many charities, churches, and other organizations that help them.

Whether or not they choose to accept that help is up to them.

SBK
04-05-2009, 10:56 PM
The women and children chose the tent city; the 2-3 people who allegedly arrive there every day chose this new poverished state of being. I think they were forced into it -- they were forced into being homeless and jobless. Did choices lead up to it? Yes. Is that entirely it? No. About half it.

Choices led them there. They may feel forced at the time, but everyone has better options if they'd choose to exercise them.

Most people end up homeless because they are a drunk, addicted to drugs or gamble their lives away. Not all, I got there cause I screwed up, but the vast majority of them need a lot more help than money.

SBK
04-05-2009, 11:01 PM
Also, if you took the time to look up the rich and famous in California you'd be shocked at how many were homeless on their way up. The list is scary long, and full of names you hear about every single day.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 11:05 PM
Absolutely there are. But then it was their choice to be associated with those people.

Oh come on. That is such an over-simplified statement it is crazy.

Do you think most of the people who worked for AIG knowingly chose to deal with people who were screwing up the company? Or do you think they probably had no clue and were just going to work and doing their job?

SBK
04-05-2009, 11:07 PM
Oh come on. That is such an over-simplified statement it is crazy.

Do you think most of the people who worked for AIG knowingly chose to deal with people who were screwing up the company? Or do you think they probably had no clue and were just going to work and doing their job?

Was it their choice to work at AIG?

Beyond that, most people get hints something is up, very few can say that there was never anything, anywhere that gave them a little bit of a heads up.

While you're busy looking for the exception to the rule you miss the entire point.

Jenson71
04-05-2009, 11:10 PM
The market just reveals your mistakes.

The idea that everything is under your control alone works in myths and business/new age religion self-help bestsellers. The whole idea behind unions is that one person alone could do little, almost nothing, to help their situation -- they needed a group to bond together to tackle issues. You're tackling so many issues here by excluding luck and other people as having effects on individuals. It would be hard to convince me of that idea.

SBK
04-05-2009, 11:13 PM
The idea that everything is under your control alone works in myths and business/new age religion self-help bestsellers. The whole idea behind unions is that one person alone could do little, almost nothing, to help their situation -- they needed a group to bond together to tackle issues. You're tackling so many issues here by excluding luck and other people as having effects on individuals. It would be hard to convince me of that idea.

Unions? Where did that come from?

And I'd agree you're not going to be convinced that people are actually responsible for themselves.

SBK
04-05-2009, 11:20 PM
Jenson, let me add a little bit about our current real estate mess.

Who is at fault for a mortgage broker screwing a borrower? Is it the mortgage brokers fault for taking advantage? Yes. Is it the borrowers fault for not doing a little homework and getting some knowledge for a such a huge amount of debt? Yes. If the borrower wants to learn and not repeat the same mistake they'd take responsibility for being so trusting and ignorant. If they want to repeat the same mistake again later in life they blame the broker.

What about the real estate flipper type who was speculating on the idea the real estate always going up in value. Is it their fault that they borrowed more than they could afford and didn't have a good exit strategy when the market changed? Or was it the markets fault that they ended up in the mess they're in? If they want to learn from their mistakes they'll take time to see that debt is dumb and figure out a way to invest in property next time that is secure against a market shift. If they want to repeat the same mistake they will blame the market and bad luck or timing.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 11:23 PM
Was it their choice to work at AIG?

Beyond that, most people get hints something is up, very few can say that there was never anything, anywhere that gave them a little bit of a heads up.

While you're busy looking for the exception to the rule you miss the entire point.

BS. Utter BS. Most people go to work and do their job and just try to make ends meet. Even if they do get a "hint" that something isn't right it isn't like they can just up and move to another job. That is the problem with your type of thinking there. It sounds good to say but it is hardly practical.


Our society suffers from the decisions of a few on a daily basis. Sure the People bear some fault. But in all actuality, what the fuck can they do about it?

Last time the People decided to do something about it we had a war.

SBK
04-05-2009, 11:37 PM
BS. Utter BS. Most people go to work and do their job and just try to make ends meet. Even if they do get a "hint" that something isn't right it isn't like they can just up and move to another job. That is the problem with your type of thinking there. It sounds good to say but it is hardly practical.


Our society suffers from the decisions of a few on a daily basis. Sure the People bear some fault. But in all actuality, what the **** can they do about it?

Last time the People decided to do something about it we had a war.

People are not responsible for themselves.

petegz28
04-05-2009, 11:56 PM
People are not responsible for themselves.

Ugh..I swear sometimes. Things are just not black and white, no matter how smart you think it is to make things sound as if they are.

wild1
04-06-2009, 07:08 AM
Ugh..I swear sometimes. Things are just not black and white, no matter how smart you think it is to make things sound as if they are.

it's pointless to argue because we can't examine each of these people's life stories. but if you think someone stays homeless for more than a year like 85% of these people and it's some woe-is-me story you're nuts.

don't kid yourself, most of these people are alcoholics and drug addicts and that's why they are homeless, not because the world is so mean and cruel. do you know how much money the state of california spends on these people? there are shelters where they can go to get job training and drug treatment and everything else.

they may not have chosen to be homeless at first but most of them are choosing it continually every day.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 07:14 AM
it's pointless to argue because we can't examine each of these people's life stories. but if you think someone stays homeless for more than a year like 85% of these people and it's some woe-is-me story you're nuts.

don't kid yourself, most of these people are alcoholics and drug addicts and that's why they are homeless, not because the world is so mean and cruel. do you know how much money the state of california spends on these people? there are shelters where they can go to get job training and drug treatment and everything else.

they may not have chosen to be homeless at first but most of them are choosing it continually every day.

Once again you are making a black and white issue out of what is clearly gray. Although I have never said there are not those who choose to be homeless.

BucEyedPea
04-06-2009, 07:41 AM
Hoover had his Hoovervilles, Obama is getting his Obamavilles.

See, history does repeat itself. :)
Sounds like a new car made at Presidential Motors! :)'


The Obamaville. I like that....has a nice ring!

blaise
04-06-2009, 08:29 AM
Also, if you took the time to look up the rich and famous in California you'd be shocked at how many were homeless on their way up. The list is scary long, and full of names you hear about every single day.

That's why I'm sure Sean Penn and George Clooney will open the doors of their mansions and let these people in.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2009, 08:33 AM
You really are a ****ing idiot at times. You think people choose to be homeless and live in hovels just to play to the media? :rolleyes:

i see em every motherfuckin day 8-5 mon-fri.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 08:37 AM
i see em every mother****in day 8-5 mon-fri.

Do they bring their media crews with them?

Brock
04-06-2009, 08:39 AM
i see em every mother****in day 8-5 mon-fri.

Heh. I saw the same guy at two different intersections 20 miles apart. This was within an hour. Same guy, same sign, same missing teeth.

blaise
04-06-2009, 08:44 AM
There was an interesting documentary a few years ago called, "Dark Days" it was about a sort of homless town of squatters who lived in the tunnels near Penn Station in NYC. They patched electricity down there, even got water down there, had little houses.
It wasn't good living by any means. There were rats everywhere and other hazards, but it was worth watching.
I think it's going to become more and more common as urban sprawls get bigger and bigger and people can just slip through the cracks.

blaise
04-06-2009, 08:47 AM
Heh. I saw the same guy at two different intersections 20 miles apart. This was within an hour. Same guy, same sign, same missing teeth.


I used to see a guy in Houston that would wear khakis and a polo shirt and he would hold a gas can. When you pulled up to the intersection he'd claim he ran out of gas and money and ask for money. The thing was he'd be there the next day again.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:06 AM
80-85% of them, the article says, have been homeless for more than a year.

So these people aren't newly homeless, they are chronically homeless.

Urban outdoorsmen.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:08 AM
so you don't think there are those that suffer because of the actions of others?

:deevee:

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:09 AM
Do you believe the market plays no role in something like that?

Only if you overextend.

Face it. If you can't go 6 months without a job without winding up homeless your were living above your means and weren't saving enough.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:11 AM
The women and children chose the tent city; the 2-3 people who allegedly arrive there every day chose this new poverished state of being. I think they were forced into it -- they were forced into being homeless and jobless. Did choices lead up to it? Yes. Is that entirely it? No. About half it.

So explain to me how the hell the rest of us are responsible for their choices? If I'm going to be held responsible for the results of Mary's stupidity then I should be allowed to control her behavior before it becomes a problem, right? I should be able to demand she not smoke, not buy a lottery ticket, not have a mobile phone, drop the cable TV, etc, right?

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:13 AM
:deevee:

Ah, so kids who are homeless are in the situation because of their own doing? No blame to the parents, heh?

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:14 AM
Only if you overextend.

Face it. If you can't go 6 months without a job without winding up homeless your were living above your means and weren't saving enough.

That is utter bullshit. Tell that to a single parent who works their ass off, if not at 2 jobs to make ends meet and the economy eliminates her jobs. Then you will bitch cause the single parent gets on the government tip.

Some of you are really about as fucking arrogant as it comes.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:14 AM
The whole idea behind unions is that one person alone could do little, almost nothing, to help their situation -- they needed a group to bond together to tackle issues.

Unions don't care about the best interest of a member, they care about what is in the best interest of the union. If that happens to help an individual then so be it.

Chief Faithful
04-06-2009, 09:15 AM
No. These folks need help, and thank goodness there are so many charities, churches, and other organizations that help them.

Whether or not they choose to accept that help is up to them.

In Obama's world there are no charities, churches and other organizations only government.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:15 AM
So explain to me how the hell the rest of us are responsible for their choices? If I'm going to be held responsible for the results of Mary's stupidity then I should be allowed to control her behavior before it becomes a problem, right? I should be able to demand she not smoke, not buy a lottery ticket, not have a mobile phone, drop the cable TV, etc, right?

Again you must rely on stereo typing and painting a black and white world.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:16 AM
BS. Utter BS. Most people go to work and do their job and just try to make ends meet. Even if they do get a "hint" that something isn't right it isn't like they can just up and move to another job. That is the problem with your type of thinking there. It sounds good to say but it is hardly practical.

I've left more than one company because I didn't like the direction it was heading. I just keep doing the impossible.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:17 AM
Unions don't care about the best interest of a member, they care about what is in the best interest of the union. If that happens to help an individual then so be it.

That is no different than a CEO or board of directors. They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. If they happen to do something to benefit their shareholders and employees then so be it.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:17 AM
I've left more than one company because I didn't like the direction it was heading. I just keep doing the impossible.

Wow, I guess I missed out on the part that everyone is in the same situation as you. :doh!:

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:20 AM
Ah, so kids who are homeless are in the situation because of their own doing? No blame to the parents, heh?

What's your solution, take the kids away?

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:21 AM
What's your solution, take the kids away?

More to the point, what is yours? You seem to have it all figured out.

Nice way to try and squirm out of your bullshit. You said everyone who is homeless is because of their own choice. The decisions of others never impact other people...that is what you claimed, mouth.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:24 AM
That is utter bullshit. Tell that to a single parent who works their ass off, if not at 2 jobs to make ends meet and the economy eliminates her jobs. Then you will bitch cause the single parent gets on the government tip.

Some of you are really about as fucking arrogant as it comes.

We've been around this block. That "poor" person has a mobile phone. Cable. Brand name pop in the fridge. Lottery tickets. Designer clothes. Americans are far too dumb to understand what is or isn't a necessity. I've known people where were dirt poor. Those who actually kept to the necessities always have food, clothing, and shelter. They were able to withstand the loss of a job until they could come up with another one.

I've also known poor people who spend every penny they earned as soon as they got it. They were constantly fucked and asking for money.

Choices. They're a bitch.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:25 AM
Again you must rely on stereo typing and painting a black and white world.

Again you want to mold the world for the fringe cases.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:26 AM
That is no different than a CEO or board of directors. They don't give a fuck about anyone but themselves. If they happen to do something to benefit their shareholders and employees then so be it.

Exactly. Which is why everyone should sack up and take care of themselves. Glad to have you on board.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:26 AM
We've been around this block. That "poor" person has a mobile phone. Cable. Brand name pop in the fridge. Lottery tickets. Designer clothes. Americans are far too dumb to understand what is or isn't a necessity. I've known people where were dirt poor. Those who actually kept to the necessities always have food, clothing, and shelter. They were able to withstand the loss of a job until they could come up with another one.

I've also known poor people who spend every penny they earned as soon as they got it. They were constantly ****ed and asking for money.

Choices. They're a bitch.

Yes we have been around this block. And you seem to still have to rely on stereo types to make your argument.

Once again it would do you good to be reminded the world is not black and white.

petegz28
04-06-2009, 09:26 AM
Exactly. Which is why everyone should sack up and take care of themselves. Glad to have you on board.

So then you support Unions then?

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:27 AM
Wow, I guess I missed out on the part that everyone is in the same situation as you. :doh!:

Name one person in the US (not in prison) who is enslaved or an indentured servant. Anyone who isn't employed at their own will. Just one. Until then you don't have a case.

Simplex3
04-06-2009, 09:28 AM
More to the point, what is yours? You seem to have it all figured out.

Nice way to try and squirm out of your bullshit. You said everyone who is homeless is because of their own choice. The decisions of others never impact other people...that is what you claimed, mouth.

ROFL

Wow, you really stuck it to me there Pete.

MOhillbilly
04-06-2009, 09:58 AM
yo pete how many homeless people you interact with on a weekly basis?