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Dave Lane
04-06-2009, 05:50 PM
Whos got some kick butt video of the greatest LB in NFL history Aaron Curry? What I've found is really pretty unimpressive. I can't see in film why he's ranked so highly. Anyone have some good video they can point me too?

SBK
04-06-2009, 05:53 PM
Here's a huge hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

Dave Lane
04-06-2009, 05:58 PM
You suck !!

OnTheWarpath58
04-06-2009, 05:59 PM
Here's a huge hit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oHg5SJYRHA0

You suck !!

I smell a Rick Roll.

svuba
04-06-2009, 06:25 PM
You are right, all of the scouts are wrong.
Curry sucks, and everybody knows it.

RustShack
04-06-2009, 06:29 PM
You are right, all of the scouts are wrong.
Curry sucks, and everybody knows it.

I wouldn't say he sucks, but hes going to be lucky to make 1 Pro Bowl.

JASONSAUTO
04-06-2009, 06:32 PM
I wouldn't say he sucks, but hes going to be lucky to make 1 Pro Bowl.

i'll admit i havent seen alot of curry, but the "highlight" vid someone posted sometime or another left ALOT to be desired. solid tackles but not many SPECTACULAR plays IMO

melbar
04-06-2009, 06:39 PM
http://nfldraft.footballjabber.com/story.php?title=video---lb-aaron-curry-highlights-wake-forest-2008

Heres some...some nice penetration to the qb early...especially like the one at 28 secs...doesnt get the qb, but plows the RB and causes bad throw. He causes a lot of bad throws. A lot of these someone else rushes and he closes quickly to the checkdown area to make the play.

Dave Lane
04-06-2009, 06:52 PM
When one of your highlights of your college career is chasing a QB outta bounds boy I don't know. I had seen that and he is a sure tackler but highest ranked player in the draft on some boards? I don't get it.

RustShack
04-06-2009, 06:56 PM
Hes a very solid player, a type of player every defense would love to have. But he is in no way a playmaker or game changer. You can find players who will make the same impact outside the top three, they might not be quite as talented but you don't need a lot of talent to just be a solid and consistent player like him.

Dave Lane
04-06-2009, 07:01 PM
Is the rest of this draft class that bad?

RustShack
04-06-2009, 07:26 PM
Is the rest of this draft class that bad?

In my opinion, Stafford and Crabtree are the only two players who would have a CHANCE of getting drafted at the top of last years draft.

RustShack
04-06-2009, 07:27 PM
I've also read somewhere that multiple scouts believe Jason Smith usually wouldn't even be top 10 talent.

TRR
04-06-2009, 07:36 PM
I agree in the fact that Curry's highlight video's are less than impressive. If you put Curry's college highlight video up against a LB like Derrick Johnson's...It's not even close. But what you can see is Curry's ability to read plays and make plays. He doesn't have a ton of sacks, or multiple INT's returned for touchdowns. But his football smarts show through, and his ability to make routine plays LOOK ROUTINE is a big plus for me. KC's defense seems to have some players that lack fundamentals. I love Curry's ability to break down and truly form tackle.

Curry seems like an excellent player and person...and will really shine when he is allowed to run wild in Penderagast's scheme.

JASONSAUTO
04-06-2009, 07:51 PM
I agree in the fact that Curry's highlight video's are less than impressive. If you put Curry's college highlight video up against a LB like Derrick Johnson's...It's not even close. But what you can see is Curry's ability to read plays and make plays. He doesn't have a ton of sacks, or multiple INT's returned for touchdowns. But his football smarts show through, and his ability to make routine plays LOOK ROUTINE is a big plus for me. KC's defense seems to have some players that lack fundamentals. I love Curry's ability to break down and truly form tackle.

Curry seems like an excellent player and person...and will really shine when he is allowed to run wild in Penderagast's scheme.

i can agree about making routine plays looks routine(and yeah we have lacked that on d), but at 3??? he should be making AWESOME plays look routine to be at 3

RustShack
04-06-2009, 08:01 PM
I agree in the fact that Curry's highlight video's are less than impressive. If you put Curry's college highlight video up against a LB like Derrick Johnson's...It's not even close. But what you can see is Curry's ability to read plays and make plays. He doesn't have a ton of sacks, or multiple INT's returned for touchdowns. But his football smarts show through, and his ability to make routine plays LOOK ROUTINE is a big plus for me. KC's defense seems to have some players that lack fundamentals. I love Curry's ability to break down and truly form tackle.

Curry seems like an excellent player and person...and will really shine when he is allowed to run wild in Penderagast's scheme.

While this is true, that is not the type of player you draft #3. Also, he wouldn't be aloud to "run wild" in this defense.

Mecca
04-06-2009, 08:12 PM
I've also read somewhere that multiple scouts believe Jason Smith usually wouldn't even be top 10 talent.

If that's true then they'd hate most OT prospects in general then because he's very athletic, I think he's a far better prospect than Jake Long was.

chiefs1111
04-06-2009, 08:35 PM
You are right, all of the scouts are wrong.
Curry sucks, and everybody knows it.

It's not that he sucks. He's just not the player that some people are making him out too be. he is a good ,solid player,that's all.

milkman
04-06-2009, 08:40 PM
If that's true then they'd hate most OT prospects in general then because he's very athletic, I think he's a far better prospect than Jake Long was.

I think that both Smiths and Monroe are better prospects.

I also thought that Clady, Albert and Baker were all better last year.

KCrockaholic
04-06-2009, 09:28 PM
Leave him alone, its his birthday! :p

TRR
04-06-2009, 09:36 PM
i can agree about making routine plays looks routine(and yeah we have lacked that on d), but at 3??? he should be making AWESOME plays look routine to be at 3

I knew this post was coming....

There are definitely enough spectacular plays in Curry's highlight reel to warrant him a #3. Especially for a team like KC who is very shorthanded on good LB's.

RustShack
04-06-2009, 09:47 PM
I knew this post was coming....

There are definitely enough spectacular plays in Curry's highlight reel to warrant him a #3. Especially for a team like KC who is very shorthanded on good LB's.

So have you never seen Currys highlight reel? Or have you never see a real playmakers highlight reel?

TRR
04-06-2009, 09:53 PM
So have you never seen Currys highlight reel? Or have you never see a real playmakers highlight reel?

Lol!

Obviously you aren't a fan of drafting Curry at #3. I obviously am. There isn't a player at #3 that will make more of an impact than Curry in Pendergast's system. KC has to get some talented LB's to play the Defense that Haley, Pendergast, and Co. want the Chiefs to play.

Tribal Warfare
04-06-2009, 10:48 PM
For Aaron Curry supporters, do you believe he'll make as big an impact on the game like LT or Derrick did? That's what type of shit I'm talking about is this player capable of changing the face of the game where teams fear that player alone.

RustShack
04-06-2009, 10:50 PM
Lol!

Obviously you aren't a fan of drafting Curry at #3. I obviously am. There isn't a player at #3 that will make more of an impact than Curry in Pendergast's system. KC has to get some talented LB's to play the Defense that Haley, Pendergast, and Co. want the Chiefs to play.

No no no there are players who CAN make a much bigger impact that Curry. There isn't a pick thats as SAFE or consistent as Curry. Safe and consistent in no way means a big impact. Also do you even know they system Pen runs? ILB's aren't very important...

melbar
04-07-2009, 12:54 AM
I agree in the fact that Curry's highlight video's are less than impressive. If you put Curry's college highlight video up against a LB like Derrick Johnson's...It's not even close. But what you can see is Curry's ability to read plays and make plays. He doesn't have a ton of sacks, or multiple INT's returned for touchdowns. But his football smarts show through, and his ability to make routine plays LOOK ROUTINE is a big plus for me. KC's defense seems to have some players that lack fundamentals. I love Curry's ability to break down and truly form tackle.

Curry seems like an excellent player and person...and will really shine when he is allowed to run wild in Penderagast's scheme.

If I'm not mistaken he returned 3 last year over 60 yards for TD's.

melbar
04-07-2009, 01:18 AM
http://video.msn.com/video.aspx?mkt=en-us&vid=161757a8-fc77-4be6-8db3-9552635ba33b&from=&fg=rss

This one has a sack/fumble and an int...also some nice hits. He gets to the ball quickly. I think most plays seem to be going away from him to weaker players, still he gets to the play.

melbar
04-07-2009, 01:27 AM
http://www.truveo.com/NFL-Draft-Linebackers/id/3375421440 The beginning of this LB highlight reel shows some nice hitting and Curry staying on his assignments to make the play.

melbar
04-07-2009, 01:34 AM
This is one of the int's for TD. Check out the vid of week 9 against UNC on the left. He took over that game. Powerhouse that UNC is...http://wake.fandome.com/video/92092/Aaron-Curry-Has-Reservations-for-Six/

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 08:09 AM
Who are the defensive players that will make a much bigger impact than Curry? Who are the defensive players that are similar to LT and DT? Why aren't these players consistently ranked in the top 5 or top 10?

philfree
04-07-2009, 08:18 AM
No no no there are players who CAN make a much bigger impact that Curry. There isn't a pick thats as SAFE or consistent as Curry. Safe and consistent in no way means a big impact. Also do you even know they system Pen runs? ILB's aren't very important...

Is that a fact? Who?


PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
04-07-2009, 08:23 AM
Who are the defensive players that will make a much bigger impact than Curry? Who are the defensive players that are similar to LT and DT? Why aren't these players consistently ranked in the top 5 or top 10?

People just can't seem to come to terms with the reality that there are no guys like that in this draft. There are some OLB/DEs in the draft but none of them are even close to a top 5 pick. And on another note I just watched Curry come off the edge and force the QB out of the pocket and set up a team mate for the sack. I was told he couldn't rush the passer. Go figure.

PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 09:44 AM
People just can't seem to come to terms with the reality that there are no guys like that in this draft. There are some OLB/DEs in the draft but none of them are even close to a top 5 pick. And on another note I just watched Curry come off the edge and force the QB out of the pocket and set up a team mate for the sack. I was told he couldn't rush the passer. Go figure.

PhilFree:arrow:

So you pick one of about 30 plays that he made like that in a FOUR YEAR CAREER.

Go figure.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 09:44 AM
Who are the defensive players that will make a much bigger impact than Curry? Who are the defensive players that are similar to LT and DT? Why aren't these players consistently ranked in the top 5 or top 10?

Why do we HAVE to pick defense?

Coogs
04-07-2009, 09:48 AM
Why do we HAVE to pick defense?

Because we are the Chiefs. This draft is better on the offensive side of the ball. Get your defensive players this year. Next year is better on defense. If Cassel doesn't cut it, get a QB next year. You know the drill by now. :)

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 09:57 AM
Why do we HAVE to pick defense?

Who are all the players that are going to make a huge impact on offense for KC?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:01 AM
Because we are the Chiefs. This draft is better on the offensive side of the ball. Get your defensive players this year. Next year is better on defense. If Cassel doesn't cut it, get a QB next year. You know the drill by now. :)

That's exactly what I was thinking when I posted that.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:01 AM
Who are all the players that are going to make a huge impact on offense for KC?

I think the single player that could have the most impact is Matthew Stafford. I know you won't ever agree, so I'm not going to elaborate.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 10:03 AM
I think the single player that could have the most impact is Matthew Stafford. I know you won't ever agree, so I'm not going to elaborate.

Wrong again. I would agree on Stafford, but it doesn't look like he's a viable option.

It looks like Stafford is going #1. Who else?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:06 AM
Wrong again. I would agree on Stafford, but it doesn't look like he's a viable option.

It looks like Stafford is going #1. Who else?

That's pretty much it. He'll probably go #1 and then there's basically nothing.

I've been on the "trade down or bust" bandwagon since the beginning.

If forced to pick at #3 then, you have to balance immediate impact with long-term impact. The player there that will have the highest probability to make the MOST impact is Mark Sanchez. All of the others could make a more IMMEDIATE impact, but don't have near the upside.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 10:10 AM
That's pretty much it. He'll probably go #1 and then there's basically nothing.

I've been on the "trade down or bust" bandwagon since the beginning.

If forced to pick at #3 then, you have to balance immediate impact with long-term impact. The player there that will have the highest probability to make the MOST impact is Mark Sanchez. All of the others could make a more IMMEDIATE impact, but don't have near the upside.

You're funny. I ask who the impact defensive players are other than Curry, and you reply why does it have to be defense, implying there are realistic offensive players available that people are overlooking. When pressed for the offensive players you pick the guy that is a 99% lock to go first and not be available and then say "there's basically nothing" other than him.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:16 AM
You're funny. I ask who the impact defensive players are other than Curry, and you reply why does it have to be defense, implying there are realistic offensive players available that people are overlooking. When pressed for the offensive players you pick the guy that is a 99% lock to go first and not be available and then say "there's basically nothing" other than him.

The post you originally responded to, by Rustshack, said PLAYERS. You had seemingly introduced the "defensive" delimiter, and by doing so I assumed that you had specifically eliminated offensive prospects. I had not seen TRR's previous post (to which Rustshack was responding) that also mentioned defensive players, so it was my mistake.

As for offensive players, I answered - I believe Mark Sanchez has the capability to have more impact than Curry.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 10:42 AM
The post you originally responded to, by Rustshack, said PLAYERS. You had seemingly introduced the "defensive" delimiter, and by doing so I assumed that you had specifically eliminated offensive prospects. I had not seen TRR's previous post (to which Rustshack was responding) that also mentioned defensive players, so it was my mistake.

As for offensive players, I answered - I believe Mark Sanchez has the capability to have more impact than Curry.

Technically, any QB has the capability of having more impact than a MLB.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:45 AM
Technically, any QB has the capability of having more impact than a MLB.

Yep.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 11:03 AM
Who are the defensive players that will make a much bigger impact than Curry?

Answer the question do you believe he'll make as big an impact in comparison to the players mentioned?

kcbubb
04-07-2009, 11:15 AM
we aren't taking a QB with the #3 pick. If we wanted Sanchez, we wouldn't have traded for Cassel. It's not going to happen. We aren't taking a QB. Please discuss other options with the #3 pick.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 11:18 AM
we aren't taking a QB with the #3 pick. If we wanted Sanchez, we wouldn't have traded for Cassel. It's not going to happen. We aren't taking a QB. Please discuss other options with the #3 pick.

ROFL

Yeah, because Cassel signed his long-term deal, right?

Besides, I didn't say ONE WORD about who Pioli is going to draft, I was talking about who *I* would draft.

But I'm glad you already know what we're going to do - can you PM me the Powerball numbers please?

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 11:19 AM
we aren't taking a QB with the #3 pick. If we wanted Sanchez, we wouldn't have traded for Cassel. It's not going to happen. We aren't taking a QB. Please discuss other options with the #3 pick.

I'm asking if Aaron Curry fans if they believe he will make the same impact that Derrick and LT did.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:00 PM
Answer the question do you believe he'll make as big an impact in comparison to the players mentioned?

Lawrence Taylor is arguably the best linebacker to ever play the position. No, I don't think Curry will have the same impact. Do you honestly think any player in this draft will be the best player at their respective position in the history of the NFL? Do you think Sanchez will make as big of an impact as Joe Montana or John Elway?

El Jefe
04-07-2009, 12:06 PM
No Curry for me, I'm getting heartburn just thinking about it ;)

philfree
04-07-2009, 12:13 PM
I'm asking if Aaron Curry fans if they believe he will make the same impact that Derrick and LT did.

I doubt any player from this draft class will have that impact so it's a moot point. And Sanchez and Stafford are not a sure thing. Of course Currry isn't a 100% sure thing either. I want to trade down but if we can't there isn't gonna be a DT or LT in this draft and we gotta pick someone. God forbid we pick a player that many consider to be the best player in the draft.


PhilFree:arrow:

kcbubb
04-07-2009, 12:14 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GxObiidbwYc

I even like him more after watching this. Great speed.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
Lawrence Taylor is arguably the best linebacker to ever play the position. No, I don't think Curry will have the same impact. Do you honestly think any player in this draft will be the best player at their respective position in the history of the NFL? Do you think Sanchez will make as big of an impact as Joe Montana or John Elway?

Look at it this way.

Do you think Curry could have the same impact as Jerrod Mayo?

Furthermore, what kind of impact do you think Jerrod Mayo would have on a TWO AND FOURTEEN TEAM that has holes EVERYWHERE?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:21 PM
I doubt any player from this draft class will have that impact so it's a moot point. And Sanchez and Stafford are not a sure thing. Of course Currry isn't a 100% sure thing either. I want to trade down but if we can't there isn't gonna be a DT or LT in this draft and we gotta pick someone. God forbid we pick a player that many consider to be the best player in the draft.


PhilFree:arrow:

You're right, we do have to pick someone. If you're left picking out of necessity, why not grab the best value you can?

God forbid that we pick what many consider to be an impact player at the greatest position of value on the field.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
If Orakpo develops and doesn't bust he has a bigger impact by default because of position, same with Maybin, same with Brown. Or wait, are you trying to get at that its impossible to be great unless your ranked high by Mel Kiper?

kcbubb
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
htismaqe, how did you get swayed to picking a QB. I thought you wanted to hold your nose and pick Curry?

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:28 PM
Hell Rey Maualuga is going to have more of an impact in games, hes just not nearly as consistent as Curry.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:34 PM
Look at it this way.

Do you think Curry could have the same impact as Jerrod Mayo?

Furthermore, what kind of impact do you think Jerrod Mayo would have on a TWO AND FOURTEEN TEAM that has holes EVERYWHERE?

Same impact as Mayo - yes.

No single player is going to turn the team around. I'm not looking for this years #3 pick to turn a 2-14 team into an 8-8 team by himself. Sanchez or Freeman or Stafford aren't going to turn the team around by themselves either.

philfree
04-07-2009, 12:37 PM
You're right, we do have to pick someone. If you're left picking out of necessity, why not grab the best value you can?

God forbid that we pick what many consider to be an impact player at the greatest position of value on the field.

I wouldn't be upset at all if we took a QB. I would be upset if we reached for a OLB/DE who isn't worth the 3rd pick. You know Orakpo is the closest to #3 pick value out of the pass rushers. Maybe we just pick him.


PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:42 PM
Curry's position isn't worth a #3 pick but hes OK to reach for?

JASONSAUTO
04-07-2009, 12:43 PM
Same impact as Mayo - yes.

No single player is going to turn the team around. I'm not looking for this years #3 pick to turn a 2-14 team into an 8-8 team by himself. Sanchez or Freeman or Stafford aren't going to turn the team around by themselves either.

i wouldnt bet on freeman turning anything other than the freshmen girls at k-state around anytime soon

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 12:45 PM
I'm asking if Aaron Curry fans if they believe he will make the same impact that Derrick and LT did.

He won't even have the same impact as Patrick Willis, who was taken ELEVENTH in a very average class.

JASONSAUTO
04-07-2009, 12:46 PM
Curry's position isn't worth a #3 pick but hes OK to reach for?

i thought about this last night. this year there might be NO ONE worth the three to us. so why not draft a guy who will help us the MOST? by the time he's ready for a 2nd contract we will know exactly what he is therefore we wont have to overpay to resign. and god knows we have plenty of money to spend right now(and i'm not sold on curry either, but brown????)

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:46 PM
htismaqe, how did you get swayed to picking a QB. I thought you wanted to hold your nose and pick Curry?

I'm not 100% sold on any course of action if we are unable to trade down. Today, I feel like taking a QB. Tomorrow, it will probably be different.

This draft just sucks.

kcbubb
04-07-2009, 12:46 PM
He won't even have the same impact as Patrick Willis, who was taken ELEVENTH in a very average class.

how was that an average class??? please tell me with the expectations at the time, not with production after the fact.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:47 PM
Same impact as Mayo - yes.

No single player is going to turn the team around. I'm not looking for this years #3 pick to turn a 2-14 team into an 8-8 team by himself. Sanchez or Freeman or Stafford aren't going to turn the team around by themselves either.

Those 3 players, as QB's, have the CHANCE to turn around a team all by themselves.

Curry, on the other hand, does not, by virtue of the position he plays.

That's just the way it is.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:47 PM
I wouldn't be upset at all if we took a QB. I would be upset if we reached for a OLB/DE who isn't worth the 3rd pick. You know Orakpo is the closest to #3 pick value out of the pass rushers. Maybe we just pick him.


PhilFree:arrow:

Orakpo played at Texas and should therefore be avoided.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:48 PM
i thought about this last night. this year there might be NO ONE worth the three to us. so why not draft a guy who will help us the MOST? by the time he's ready for a 2nd contract we will know exactly what he is therefore we wont have to overpay to resign. and god knows we have plenty of money to spend right now

So you want a QB then? :)

DeezNutz
04-07-2009, 12:49 PM
how was that an average class??? please tell me with the expectations at the time, not with production after the fact.

4 elite-level prospects in that class, by my recollection: C. Johnson, Thomas, Landry, Peterson.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:52 PM
Those 3 players, as QB's, have the CHANCE to turn around a team all by themselves.

Curry, on the other hand, does not, by virtue of the position he plays.

That's just the way it is.

Not true. No QB is going to be able to turn around the 32 defense, piss poor OL, poor special teams, problematic running game and at best average receiving corps.

melbar
04-07-2009, 12:52 PM
He won't even have the same impact as Patrick Willis, who was taken ELEVENTH in a very average class.

You're sure he wont have an impact, yet he's seen as a better prospect in the strongest LB class in years. You know something every expert doesnt?

JASONSAUTO
04-07-2009, 12:53 PM
So you want a QB then? :)

i want whatever will help this team the most, if its a qb so be it. at least qb's hold their value. i just dont know if a qb picked at 3 will be worth as much if cassel blows up

JASONSAUTO
04-07-2009, 12:54 PM
Not true. No QB is going to be able to turn around the 32 defense, piss poor OL, poor special teams, problematic running game and at best average receiving corps.

BUT good qb play will mask a lot of things

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 12:58 PM
Not true. No QB is going to be able to turn around the 32 defense, piss poor OL, poor special teams, problematic running game and at best average receiving corps.

John Elway did it.

I realize he's a singular instance, but he's still an example.

A QB has a CHANCE to turn around a team all by himself. An ILB in a 3-4 scheme doesn't.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 01:03 PM
Lawrence Taylor is arguably the best linebacker to ever play the position. No, I don't think Curry will have the same impact. Do you honestly think any player in this draft will be the best player at their respective position in the history of the NFL?

Look at the draft slotting LT was #2 and Derrick was #4, if your taking a player that high he better have HOF potential

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:05 PM
The only think people use as defense for Curry is his athleticism, even though Vernon Gholsten was more athletic, its impossible for a great athlete to bust!

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 01:06 PM
You're sure he wont have an impact, yet he's seen as a better prospect in the strongest LB class in years. You know something every expert doesnt?

Where did I say he WON'T have an impact?

I said his impact will not match that of Willis, who's an absolute BEAST, and was taken ELEVENTH in a class as devoid of talent at the top as this one is.

When you consider the impact he'll make and consider taking him at #3, it's not worth it, IMO. There isn't going to be a significant drop in impact at the MLB position between him and a guy like Maualuga or even Laurinaitiis - guys who can be had much later in the draft, and offer more value at those later draft slots.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:06 PM
EDIT- People also use piss poor highlight videos.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 01:26 PM
I'm asking if Aaron Curry fans if they believe he will make the same impact that Derrick and LT did.

In a different role, yes. An impact in the same manner as a Brooks/Willis/Lewis type linebacker of recent NFL history. He is not a pure rush backer and shouldn't be used as such. It's a waste of his talents. To waste Curry as a simple ROLB would be ignorant at best.

If you people have such a hard on for a rush backer, make sure the Chiefs get George Selvie next year, as he's substantially better than any other ROLB prospect in this draft. Just don't piss away the opportunity to get the best player in the draft (especially at a severe position of need for the Chiefs) in order to draft some huge bust potential because you all have been curled in a fetal position in the corner of in your bedroom since DT died.

And don't even mention Sanchez. Seriously. Regardless of the fact that Cassel hasn't received a long term from the Chiefs, you know he is their guy. Add to that, McD was willing to crash an entire franchise to get the guy. He's also bigger and more athletic than Sanchez, and has proven that he can be a success in this league. He's understudied under one of the best quarterbacks to have ever played the game in Brady, knows the NFL, and throws some of the prettiest passes you'll ever see. And only has a single season of wear and tear. That's a hell of a lot more upside than Sanchez has at this point, particularly considering that Sanchez has happy feet in the pocket and has had minor injury issues already. So just stop with that "I want Sanchez" nonsense. Because that's what it is - nonsense.

And I'm sorry that Curry's internet, YouTube videos haven't provided you with enough "oohs" and "ahhs" for you to draft him with the Chiefs first pick in your mock world. I guess making the correct play time and time again, being in the right place at the right time, being fundamentally sound while being the most athletic linebacker in this draft just isn't good enough for you. I hear that there is some D-II ROLB who knock two helmets off opponents this year and it looks crazy sick on YouTube. Maybe he should be your guy.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 01:31 PM
In a different role, yes. An impact in the same manner as a Brooks/Willis/Lewis type linebacker of recent NFL history. He is not a pure rush backer and shouldn't be used as such. It's a waste of his talents. To waste Curry as a simple ROLB would be ignorant at best.





Really, a total gamechanger in a 3-4 defense as an ILB ?Alright I'll hold him to that for the next 3 years anything else is a disappointment.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Really, a total gamechanger in a 3-4 defense as an ILB ?Alright I'll hold him to that for the next 3 years anything else is a disappointment.

Are you extremely disappointed in Dorsey?

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:33 PM
Like Brooks/Willis/Lewis? thats a pretty wide variety. If he can be like that then hes a HOF guy we should take at three, the problem is he isn't that guy, he might be something like Brooks, a player I wouldn't draft #3 overall.

philfree
04-07-2009, 01:33 PM
The only think people use as defense for Curry is his athleticism, even though Vernon Gholsten was more athletic, its impossible for a great athlete to bust!

Those guys are nothing alike. Gholston is a pass rusher who couldn't even get on the field. He was a workout warrior leading up to the draft when he was picked and he's good example of why we don't want to reach for a pass rusher.

PhilFree:arrow:

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 01:34 PM
Are you extremely disappointed in Dorsey?

If you read my post, I said in the next 3 years. For example DJ has been a disappointment

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:34 PM
Are you extremely disappointed in Dorsey?

Dorsey is a DT which is worth a high draft pick, he was the best player in last year draft and fell to the #5 spot... there is a major difference between getting a steal and drafting a position high than you should.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:37 PM
Those guys are nothing alike. Gholston is a pass rusher who couldn't even get on the field. He was a workout warrior leading up to the draft when he was picked and he's good example of why we don't want to reach for a pass rusher.

PhilFree:arrow:

No they are nothing a like because it hurts your cause for Curry. I know Vernon was a DE/OLB, I didn't say anything about position, I was talking about athleticism, but if we draft Curry this high he should be a DE/OLB which some here claim he can be. Oh and for the record those two are about the same size. I just think its funny some people believe Curry can learn to be a pass rusher even though thats a lot harder to lean but other players can't learn the easier job and drop into coverage.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 01:38 PM
If you read my post, I said in the next 3 years. For example DJ has been a disappointment

Being a #5 pick you expect Dorsey to be at a HOF level in three years, correct?

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 01:39 PM
No they are nothing a like because it hurts your cause for Curry. I know Vernon was a DE/OLB, I didn't say anything about position, I was talking about athleticism, but if we draft Curry this high he should be a DE/OLB which some here claim he can be. Oh and for the record those two are about the same size. I just think its funny some people believe Curry can learn to be a pass rusher even though thats a lot harder to lean but other players can't learn the easier job and drop into coverage.

Curry could learn to play QB as well, then we're covered in the event that Cassel goes tits up.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 01:39 PM
Being a #5 pick you expect Dorsey to be at a HOF level in three years, correct?

Like Warren Sapp, correct

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:40 PM
Being a #5 pick you expect Dorsey to be at a HOF level in three years, correct?

That would be nice, but he plays at a position thats worth a top pick... Curry is held to a different standard because its dumb as fuck to draft an ILB #3.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:40 PM
Curry could learn to play QB as well, then we're covered in the event that Cassel goes tits up.

JESUS SAVES!

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:41 PM
Do you guys think we will start running the Wildcat with Curry?

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 01:42 PM
Being a #5 pick you expect Dorsey to be at a HOF level in three years, correct?

What part of positional value to you not understand?

DT's are more important than ILB's, therefore, they don't have to have a HOF career to be worthy of that pick.

But let's face it. You already knew that. You just enjoy pigeon-holing every argument towards taking Curry.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 01:42 PM
JESUS SAVES!

AND CURRY SCORES ON THE REBOUND!

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 01:46 PM
What part of positional value to you not understand?

DT's are more important than ILB's, therefore, they don't have to have a HOF career to be worthy of that pick.

But let's face it. You already knew that. You just enjoy pigeon-holing every argument towards taking Curry.

You are a dense mongoloid. I don't really care if they take Curry. I do recognize he is the top defensive talent in this years draft at a position of need. I guess none of the experts recognize positional value either since every mock and ranking has Curry going in the top 5.

philfree
04-07-2009, 01:49 PM
Orakpo played at Texas and should therefore be avoided.


Yeah I know that's the consensus around here and I'm not saying I disagree but he's the highest rated pass rusher in this draft. Interesting that many here say he's not worth the three pick and they wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole so they want to reach a little farther down the draft board.


PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
04-07-2009, 01:52 PM
You are a dense mongoloid. I don't really care if they take Curry. I do recognize he is the top defensive talent in this years draft at a position of need. I guess none of the experts recognize positional value either since every mock and ranking has Curry going in the top 5.

Positional value doesn't matter if the players at those positions in the draft suck. Maybe we should draft a DE so he can be a pass rush specialist. I mean he'd have positional value.


PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 01:52 PM
You are a dense mongoloid. I don't really care if they take Curry. I do recognize he is the top defensive talent in this years draft at a position of need. I guess none of the experts recognize positional value either since every mock and ranking has Curry going in the top 5.

ILB isn't really a position of need for us...

philfree
04-07-2009, 01:58 PM
No they are nothing a like because it hurts your cause for Curry. I know Vernon was a DE/OLB, I didn't say anything about position, I was talking about athleticism, but if we draft Curry this high he should be a DE/OLB which some here claim he can be. Oh and for the record those two are about the same size. I just think its funny some people believe Curry can learn to be a pass rusher even though thats a lot harder to lean but other players can't learn the easier job and drop into coverage.

No they're nothing alike because , well, they're nothing alike. Should be? You're living in a fnatasy draft world where everything is written in stone and fits neatly in it's own little place.

PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
04-07-2009, 01:59 PM
ILB isn't really a position of need for us...

LOL....Who is our pro bowl ILB?


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 01:59 PM
You are a dense mongoloid. I don't really care if they take Curry. I do recognize he is the top defensive talent in this years draft at a position of need. I guess none of the experts recognize positional value either since every mock and ranking has Curry going in the top 5.

Yeah I know that's the consensus around here and I'm not saying I disagree but he's the highest rated pass rusher in this draft. Interesting that many here say he's not worth the three pick and they wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole so they want to reach a little farther down the draft board.


PhilFree:arrow:

Perfect examples of one of the biggest issues on this board.

Mocks have Curry rated Top 5, therefore he MUST be a Top 5 talent.

It's hilarious that the guys that actually WATCH games and form their OWN opinions get bashed around this place for not agreeing with what Mel Kiper Jr (Mike Williams, anyone) or Mike Mayock says.

Hell, a month ago, Mayock was saying Sanchez shouldn't have come out. Now he's saying that the Broncos better do everything in their power to move up far enough to take him.

I think it's hilarious when people say things like "many here say he's not worth the three pick and they wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole so they want to reach a little farther down the draft board."

NONE of us know what Pioli's draft board looks like.

Therefore, some of us choose to create our own boards, and present our opinions based on that board.

Only at CP are you criticized for forming your own opinion, instead of just being a follower of a guy with helmet hair that is wrong more than he's right, but because he's on ESPN, he must be a fucking genius.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:00 PM
Like Brooks/Willis/Lewis? thats a pretty wide variety. If he can be like that then hes a HOF guy we should take at three, the problem is he isn't that guy, he might be something like Brooks, a player I wouldn't draft #3 overall.

So, what you are saying, is that if a guy isn't a guaranteed Hall of Famer, then it's a waste of the Chiefs #3 pick. And that guy in this draft is...?

No one. Everyone. You never know. And that's the problem. Do the Chiefs, with a desperate need to get quality football players have any other option than to pick Aaron Curry (barring any unforeseen trades)? No, they do not. He is the best player in this draft. Combine numbers, speed, etc. Athletically he is a freak. As well, he is the safest pick in this draft. He is fundamentally sound, makes all the plays, makes the people around him better and has excellent instincts. For the Chiefs to be able to draft the best AND safest player in the draft, with one pick, is a godsend. Manna from heaven.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:02 PM
LOL....Who is our pro bowl ILB?


PhilFree:arrow:

What team has pro-bowlers at every position? If I was told I would only have 1 "pro-bowler" on my team, I would hope he played just about any other position than ILB.

And on the topic of pro-bowlers, when did that become the benchmark? It's a fucking popularity contest that the FANS vote on, FFS.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:03 PM
LOL....Who is our pro bowl ILB?


PhilFree:arrow:

When did I say we had a Pro Bowl player? There is no reason to replace DJ, Williams, Biesel, and Mays when there are much much bigger needs on the team... such as the two most important Positions in a 3-4 Defense, OLB and NT.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:03 PM
Regardless of the fact that Cassel hasn't received a long term from the Chiefs, you know he is their guy.

I really like statements like this.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Oh and if you think Curry is a Pro Bowl guy you are going to be in for a major surprise.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:04 PM
ILB isn't really a position of need for us...

Holy shit...What fucking team have you been watching for the past 20 years or so?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:04 PM
Positional value doesn't matter if the players at those positions in the draft suck.

Hogwash.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:06 PM
So, what you are saying, is that if a guy isn't a guaranteed Hall of Famer, then it's a waste of the Chiefs #3 pick. And that guy in this draft is...?

No dumbass, for the 100th time if you draft a ILB that high he better be a HOF player, the rules are different when you draft a position actually worth a top 5 pick.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:06 PM
I really like statements like this.

No kidding.

I'm looking forward to draft day. There are a lot of people who talk in absolutes that might end up disappointed.

I can't think of a single guy that has said that we WILL take a QB, (though many of us think they should if they stay at #3) but there's a mob that have said they absolutely WON'T, just because they traded for Cassel.

Anyone claiming they know what Pioli will or won't do doesn't understand Scott Pioli, or football.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:07 PM
Perfect examples of one of the biggest issues on this board.

Mocks have Curry rated Top 5, therefore he MUST be a Top 5 talent.

It's hilarious that the guys that actually WATCH games and form their OWN opinions get bashed around this place for not agreeing with what Mel Kiper Jr (Mike Williams, anyone) or Mike Mayock says.

Hell, a month ago, Mayock was saying Sanchez shouldn't have come out. Now he's saying that the Broncos better do everything in their power to move up far enough to take him.

I think it's hilarious when people say things like "many here say he's not worth the three pick and they wouldn't touch him with a 10' pole so they want to reach a little farther down the draft board."

NONE of us know what Pioli's draft board looks like.

Therefore, some of us choose to create our own boards, and present our opinions based on that board.

Only at CP are you criticized for forming your own opinion, instead of just being a follower of a guy with helmet hair that is wrong more than he's right, but because he's on ESPN, he must be a ****ing genius.

Well you're not talking to me then because I base nothing off Kiper. And as far being criticized for forming your own opinion I'm sure you never do that to others.

Oh yeah, when are you guys gonna start sharing the coaches tape with the rest of us?

PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:07 PM
Holy shit...What fucking team have you been watching for the past 20 years or so?

One that hasn't ran the 3-4 so never had an ILB?

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 02:07 PM
So, what you are saying, is that if a guy isn't a guaranteed Hall of Famer, then it's a waste of the Chiefs #3 pick. And that guy in this draft is...?

No one. Everyone. You never know. And that's the problem. Do the Chiefs, with a desperate need to get quality football players have any other option than to pick Aaron Curry (barring any unforeseen trades)? No, they do not. He is the best player in this draft. Combine numbers, speed, etc. Athletically he is a freak. As well, he is the safest pick in this draft. He is fundamentally sound, makes all the plays, makes the people around him better and has excellent instincts. For the Chiefs to be able to draft the best AND safest player in the draft, with one pick, is a godsend. Manna from heaven.

THERE IS NO SUCH THING AS A SAFE PICK.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:08 PM
Hogwash.


Chicken Poop!


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:09 PM
Holy shit...What fucking team have you been watching for the past 20 years or so?

I think you're missing something here...

Is ILB a need? Absolutely.

Is ILB so desperate of a need we have to use the #3 overall pick at that position?

Absolutely fucking not.

Christ, the other SIX spots on the front seven are a greater need than ILB right now.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:10 PM
It would be a luxury to upgrade at ILB, its a need like a lot of other positions.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 02:11 PM
I'm not going to rain on the Sanchez love fest. I understand how disappointed they must be when Pioli and Haley decided they liked Cassel better than Sanchez. They only have about 18 days left to keep some sliver of hope alive that Pioli will have a change of heart and sign Sanchez. Enjoy dreaming up the Sanchez draft scenarios and multiple Super Bowl appearances that will follow shortly after he single handedly turns the team around. Maybe he'll read that you guys were his number one fans and that with your uber cool CP bragging rights maybe he'll join the board and invite you over his place for a few beers to make fun of the people that considered drafting Curry.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm not going to rain on the Sanchez love fest. I understand how disappointed they must be when Pioli and Haley decided they liked Cassel better than Sanchez. They only have about 18 days left to keep some sliver of hope alive that Pioli will have a change of heart and sign Sanchez. Enjoy dreaming up the Sanchez draft scenarios and multiple Super Bowl appearances that will follow shortly after he single handedly turns the team around. Maybe he'll read that you guys were his number one fans and that with your uber cool CP bragging rights maybe he'll join the board and invite you over his place for a few beers to make fun of the people that considered drafting Curry.

:doh!:

What does that have to do with anything? Your pussy really hurts when people don't feel like Curry is Jesus like you right? I'm sorry, but he isn't flawless like you believe. Its over hypers like you that create busts, there is no possible way Curry lives up to the image you have him in.

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm not going to rain on the Sanchez love fest. I understand how disappointed they must be when Pioli and Haley decided they liked Cassel better than Sanchez. They only have about 18 days left to keep some sliver of hope alive that Pioli will have a change of heart and sign Sanchez. Enjoy dreaming up the Sanchez draft scenarios and multiple Super Bowl appearances that will follow shortly after he single handedly turns the team around. Maybe he'll read that you guys were his number one fans and that with your uber cool CP bragging rights maybe he'll join the board and invite you over his place for a few beers to make fun of the people that considered drafting Curry.

Keep sucking Curry's cock.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:15 PM
I'm not going to rain on the Sanchez love fest. I understand how disappointed they must be when Pioli and Haley decided they liked Cassel better than Sanchez. They only have about 18 days left to keep some sliver of hope alive that Pioli will have a change of heart and sign Sanchez. Enjoy dreaming up the Sanchez draft scenarios and multiple Super Bowl appearances that will follow shortly after he single handedly turns the team around. Maybe he'll read that you guys were his number one fans and that with your uber cool CP bragging rights maybe he'll join the board and invite you over his place for a few beers to make fun of the people that considered drafting Curry.

ROFL

I don't think a Dyson vacuum could suck the sand of your 'gina.

Yep, it's all about Sanchez.

That's why a vast majority of us "Sanchez lovers" have said we'd not only take Sanchez over Curry, but in some cases Everette Brown, Crabtree, Orakpo, etc over Curry.

Someone better call the...

http://davekellogg.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/wambulance_logo.jpg

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:16 PM
No dumbass, for the 100th time if you draft a ILB that high he better be a HOF player, the rules are different when you draft a position actually worth a top 5 pick.

Oh, so it's okay to draft some cheese dick that's a major reach because of serious holes in his game just because he plays a position that you think is important? Because that position is a bit more flashy than another? Courtney Brown ring a bell? Gaines Adams? David Carr? Ryan Sims? Charles Rogers? And I could go on and on and on.

Fuck that.

You should go buy a Redskins hat if that's the way you think. There's a team that drafts shit like that every year. You'd be in nirvana.

And besides, if you don't think that MLB is important, go tell the Bears and Ravens that they'd be a much better team without a guy like Urlacher and Lewis. That they weren't worth that first round pick. That a guy like Peter Warrick or Lawrence Phillips should have been the Bears or Ravens pick, respectively.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2009, 02:17 PM
Whos got some kick butt video of the greatest LB in NFL history Aaron Curry? What I've found is really pretty unimpressive. I can't see in film why he's ranked so highly. Anyone have some good video they can point me too?

http://www.dreamstime.com/jesus---miracle-thumb164104.jpg

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:18 PM
Oh MLB is very important, but Curry isn't a MLB.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Also I would give you a long list of ILB busts, but teams aren't dumb enough to draft them #3 overall.

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Oh, so it's okay to draft some cheese dick that's a major reach because of serious holes in his game just because he plays a position that you think is important? Because that position is a bit more flashy than another? Courtney Brown ring a bell? Gaines Adams? David Carr? Ryan Sims? Charles Rogers? And I could go on and on and on.

Fuck that.

You should go buy a Redskins hat if that's the way you think. There's a team that drafts shit like that every year. You'd be in nirvana.

And besides, if you don't think that MLB is important, go tell the Bears and Ravens that they'd be a much better team without a guy like Urlacher and Lewis. That they weren't worth that first round pick. That a guy like Peter Warrick or Lawrence Phillips should have been the Bears or Ravens pick, respectively.

So Gaines Adams is a bust already? God you're a fucking dipshit. Let's just pick and choose players because they're busts.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:19 PM
Oh, so it's okay to draft some cheese dick that's a major reach because of serious holes in his game just because he plays a position that you think is important? Because that position is a bit more flashy than another? Courtney Brown ring a bell? Gaines Adams? David Carr? Ryan Sims? Charles Rogers? And I could go on and on and on.

Fuck that.

You should go buy a Redskins hat if that's the way you think. There's a team that drafts shit like that every year. You'd be in nirvana.

And besides, if you don't think that MLB is important, go tell the Bears and Ravens that they'd be a much better team without a guy like Urlacher and Lewis. That they weren't worth that first round pick. That a guy like Peter Warrick or Lawrence Phillips should have been the Bears or Ravens pick, respectively.

Urlacher taken 9th overall. Value difference between the 3rd and 9th pick: 850 points - equal to the 20th pick in the draft.

Lewis taken 26th overall. Value difference between the 3rd and 26th pick: 1500 points - equal to the 7th pick in the draft.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:25 PM
I can't think of a single guy that has said that we WILL take a QB, (though many of us think they should if they stay at #3) but there's a mob that have said they absolutely WON'T, just because they traded for Cassel.

Exactly.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:25 PM
I think you're missing something here...

Is ILB a need? Absolutely.

Is ILB so desperate of a need we have to use the #3 overall pick at that position?

Absolutely ****ing not.

Christ, the other SIX spots on the front seven are a greater need than ILB right now.

Nice to see you discounting the position that is basically the quarterback of the defense, the guy who's calling the audibles, has to rush, cover, etc. I'm glad to see that you consider that position to be less valuable than, say a LDE, a LOLB, a one gap DT, etc.

However, I think that we do need help on the DL as well as the LB position, but I don't see a guy out there that is substantially better, or even equal to Curry in terms of immediate and long term contribution at any of the front seven spots. So, seeing that we need help on our front seven and Curry is the best of the bunch in this draft, what do you think we should do? I'd draft Curry. Who would you draft that would be a better alternative at the #3 spot? What position of need with what player is better than Curry as you look at the draft?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:26 PM
I'm not going to rain on the Sanchez love fest. I understand how disappointed they must be when Pioli and Haley decided they liked Cassel better than Sanchez. They only have about 18 days left to keep some sliver of hope alive that Pioli will have a change of heart and sign Sanchez. Enjoy dreaming up the Sanchez draft scenarios and multiple Super Bowl appearances that will follow shortly after he single handedly turns the team around. Maybe he'll read that you guys were his number one fans and that with your uber cool CP bragging rights maybe he'll join the board and invite you over his place for a few beers to make fun of the people that considered drafting Curry.

What are you going to do if we DO take Sanchez? And you do realize that if we trade down and whoever picks at #3 takes Sanchez, that validates these people's opinion as well, right?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:27 PM
:doh!:

What does that have to do with anything? Your pussy really hurts when people don't feel like Curry is Jesus like you right? I'm sorry, but he isn't flawless like you believe. Its over hypers like you that create busts, there is no possible way Curry lives up to the image you have him in.

Conversely, if he's able to tie his shoe correctly, he'll then surpass all of the expectations your type have of him or his position on the field.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:28 PM
Nice to see you discounting the position that is basically the quarterback of the defense, the guy who's calling the audibles, has to rush, cover, etc. I'm glad to see that you consider that position to be less valuable than, say a LDE, a LOLB, a one gap DT, etc.

However, I think that we do need help on the DL as well as the LB position, but I don't see a guy out there that is substantially better, or even equal to Curry in terms of immediate and long term contribution at any of the front seven spots. So, seeing that we need help on our front seven and Curry is the best of the bunch in this draft, what do you think we should do? I'd draft Curry. Who would you draft that would be a better alternative at the #3 spot? What position of need with what player is better than Curry as you look at the draft?

Do you HONESTLY think Curry is going to be the QB of the defense?

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Nice to see you discounting the position that is basically the quarterback of the defense, the guy who's calling the audibles, has to rush, cover, etc. I'm glad to see that you consider that position to be less valuable than, say a LDE, a LOLB, a one gap DT, etc.

Well there are two ILB's, and we can get away with the likes of DJ, Beisle, and/or Williams handling that a little longer. Monte would probably be the best at doing that, unless you believe you need to be a physical specimen for your teammates to hear your audible.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Nice to see you discounting the position that is basically the quarterback of the defense, the guy who's calling the audibles, has to rush, cover, etc. I'm glad to see that you consider that position to be less valuable than, say a LDE, a LOLB, a one gap DT, etc.

http://i41.tinypic.com/2gwgp4j.jpg

<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/ekQ_Ja02gTY&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><param name="allowscriptaccess" value="always"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/ekQ_Ja02gTY&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowscriptaccess="always" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>

MLB more important than DE, OLB and DT?

:popcorn:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:31 PM
Conversely, if he's able to tie his shoe correctly, he'll then surpass all of the expectations your type have of him or his position on the field.

So anyone that can tie their shoes can be a solid and consistent player?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:31 PM
So Gaines Adams is a bust already? God you're a ****ing dipshit. Let's just pick and choose players because they're busts.

He's average the same amount of sacks and 20 less tackles per year than Tamba Hali, and people around here have no problem jumping all over Hali's ass for being a bust, especially when he was picked 16 slots lower than Adams.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:33 PM
Well there are two ILB's, and we can get away with the likes of DJ, Beisle, and/or Williams handling that a little longer. Monte would probably be the best at doing that, unless you believe you need to be a physical specimen for your teammates to hear your audible.

THE VOICE OF GOD:

TANGO, TANGO - WEAKSIDE - ROVER.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:35 PM
Urlacher taken 9th overall. Value difference between the 3rd and 9th pick: 850 points - equal to the 20th pick in the draft.

Lewis taken 26th overall. Value difference between the 3rd and 26th pick: 1500 points - equal to the 7th pick in the draft.

Okay Confucius, nice work with that abacus. What is your point anyway?

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:36 PM
Okay Confucius, nice work with that abacus. What is your point anyway?

:doh!:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:38 PM
Okay Confucius, nice work with that abacus. What is your point anyway?

Dear God.

Seriously?

Urlacher went 9th in a bad class. Lewis was the 4th LB taken in his class. Willis was taken 11th in a bad class.

And we're supposed to just drop our pants and take Curry at 3, crossing our fingers and hoping like hell he is better than all of them?

Because he HAS to be better than all of them to justify taking a goddamn INSIDE LINEBACKER with the THIRD overall pick in the draft.

Name the last ILB that was taken in the Top 3. I think there's been ONE in the past TWENTY years.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:41 PM
Its hard to believe how many FTD's we have here :banghead:

Let the draft end and shut these media gospeling idiots up!

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:42 PM
Speaking of FTD, hows Trevor Laws doing so far?

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 02:43 PM
Speaking of FTD, hows Trevor Laws doing so far?

12 tackles

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:44 PM
He's average the same amount of sacks and 20 less tackles per year than Tamba Hali, and people around here have no problem jumping all over Hali's ass for being a bust, especially when he was picked 16 slots lower than Adams.

Touche.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:47 PM
Dear God.

Seriously?

Urlacher went 9th in a bad class. Lewis was the 4th LB taken in his class. Willis was taken 11th in a bad class.

And we're supposed to just drop our pants and take Curry at 3, crossing our fingers and hoping like hell he is better than all of them?
Because he HAS to be better than all of them to justify taking a goddamn INSIDE LINEBACKER with the THIRD overall pick in the draft.

Name the last ILB that was taken in the Top 3.

And that's different then reaching for a player because his position is considered more valuable even though he isn't good enough to be picked that high? Eh---yeah he sucks but the position he plays holds a high value so he's our pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:49 PM
And that's different then reaching for a player because his position is considered more valuable even though he isn't good enough to be picked that high? Eh---yeah he sucks but the position he plays holds a high value so he's our pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

Interesting, I've read multiple articles saying Everette Brown could be a top 5 pick, but I guess thats too much of a reach. Orakpo who I don't want, is ranked at #4 on Scouts Inc, but thats probably too much of a reach too.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:50 PM
And that's different then reaching for a player because his position is considered more valuable even though he isn't good enough to be picked that high? Eh---yeah he sucks but the position he plays holds a high value so he's our pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

I'm not sure how many times this has to be said...

You have NO IDEA what Pioli's draft board looks like. How are you determining who would be a "reach?"

Oh yeah, piggybacking off of Kiper or Mayock.

For all you know, Pioli has Rey Maualuga rated higher than Jesus Curry.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:50 PM
I still think Pioli is leaning towards Raji and Haley is leaning towards Crabree.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:50 PM
Its hard to believe how many FTD's we have here :banghead:

Let the draft end and shut these media gospeling idiots up!

LOL another Chiefs Planet Genious has spoken!

You ain't no different, smarter or better then anyone who talks draft on this board. Get over yourself.

PhilFree:arrow:

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:51 PM
Shh Shh Curry is on ESPN RIGHT NOW!

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:51 PM
He said hes too small and too slow to play for a big football school!

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:52 PM
What are you going to do if we DO take Sanchez? And you do realize that if we trade down and whoever picks at #3 takes Sanchez, that validates these people's opinion as well, right?

If the Chiefs take Sanchez, I'd accept it. It wouldn't make a lot of sense, but it might give them certain options in the long run, although it does take a lot away from other areas of need that the team currently has. (And if the team were to take a qb, then I'd rather see it in the later rounds where it's not so much a question using such a high pick on what would initially be considered a pick of need for the Chiefs. If you want to get future trade material by developing a quarterback or a QBOTF, do it in the sixth round or so. Bulger, Brady, Cassel, etc., etc., etc.) It might also create a quarterback controversy that could have a negative impact on the team chemistry. It doesn't really make a lot of sense to draft Sanchez, but stranger things have happened.

It validates the need of a team that needed a quarterback and drafted up to make sure that they got a player who they felt was a guy who would fit in their system before another team drafted him. Basically, that could happen with any player. It depends on the team, and how they feel about the player. I don't think it necessarily has to do with the position. And I'm not saying that these peoples opinions are not without merit. I would have wanted the Chiefs to draft Sanchez with the three pick, but that was before the acquisition of Cassel. At this point, drafting Sanchez with that pick would be redundant and a waste seeing as how this team needs a lot more players, especially with that pick.

I can see the Chiefs trading out with another team and that team taking Curry at the #3 spot. It all depends on the team.

The problem around here is that some people seem to be completely and utterly locked into this draft position chart and this positional relevance in terms of the draft. It's like they have blinders on, and can't see anything other than the black and white aspects of it, and there is a hell of a lot more that goes on other than some guy looking at a draft value chart and "you only take this and that position with that pick" during a draft. There is a lot more grey area out there than some around here are willing to accept.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:52 PM
The Lions told him he will be successful!

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:53 PM
I'm not sure how many times this has to be said...

You have NO IDEA what Pioli's draft board looks like. How are you determining who would be a "reach?"

Oh yeah, piggybacking off of Kiper or Mayock.

For all you know, Pioli has Rey Maualuga rated higher than Jesus Curry.


I believe the same applies to you so what's your point. Pioli & Co. could also have Curry rated as the top player on their board for all you know.

PhilFree:arrow:

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:53 PM
Do you HONESTLY think Curry is going to be the QB of the defense?

Yep.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:53 PM
He said he and teams know that he doesn't have the passrushing technique.

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 02:54 PM
He's average the same amount of sacks and 20 less tackles per year than Tamba Hali, and people around here have no problem jumping all over Hali's ass for being a bust, especially when he was picked 16 slots lower than Adams.

Hali also started for 3 years. Gaines Adams didn't start until halfway through his first year.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:54 PM
So anyone that can tie their shoes can be a solid and consistent player?

Only a ROLB or DE by your account.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:55 PM
I believe the same applies to you so what's your point. Pioli & Co. could also have Curry rated as the top player on their board for all you know.

PhilFree:arrow:

Yeah a position that wasn't highly regarded by Pioli in NE and usually filled by Veterans is #1 on Pioli's list, thats a safe assumption.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:55 PM
There is a lot more grey area out there than some around here are willing to accept.

It goes both ways, though.

Some here aren't willing to acknowledge that taking a LB like Curry at #3 overall would be almost UNPRECEDENTED. It just doesn't happen, and there's a reason for it.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 02:55 PM
Only a ROLB or DE by your account.

Really? I said that?

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Yep.

Again, I think people have expectations of Curry that he's going to struggle to meet.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:56 PM
Yeah a position that wasn't highly regarded by Pioli in NE and usually filled by Veterans is #1 on Pioli's list, thats a safe assumption.

I'm not assuming anything.

PhilFree:arrow:

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 02:57 PM
I believe the same applies to you so what's your point. Pioli & Co. could also have Curry rated as the top player on their board for all you know.

PhilFree:arrow:

Of course, none of us have EVER said that the Chiefs WILL take Sanchez, or anybody else for that matter.

The same can't be said for the people on the Curry side of the argument.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 02:58 PM
Dear God.

Seriously?

Urlacher went 9th in a bad class. Lewis was the 4th LB taken in his class. Willis was taken 11th in a bad class.

And we're supposed to just drop our pants and take Curry at 3, crossing our fingers and hoping like hell he is better than all of them?

Because he HAS to be better than all of them to justify taking a goddamn INSIDE LINEBACKER with the THIRD overall pick in the draft.

Name the last ILB that was taken in the Top 3. I think there's been ONE in the past TWENTY years.

Jesus, you whine like a bitch. All you seem to be able to do is bag on anyone who mentions taking Curry with the #3 pick and whenever pressed for your selection, all you can say is the most non-sensical of all picks - Sanchez.

I mean, seriously. You saying that you'd pick Sanchez, even after the Chiefs traded for Cassel, and then giving shit to people who want to draft Curry is the most hypocritical, dipshitiest thing I've seen on this topic.

philfree
04-07-2009, 02:59 PM
Again, I think people have expectations of Curry that he's going to struggle to meet.

Obviously they're gonna have expectations for anyone the Chiefs pick with the 3rd pick and who ever that player is he's gonna struggle to meet those expectations.


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 02:59 PM
I believe the same applies to you so what's your point. Pioli & Co. could also have Curry rated as the top player on their board for all you know.

PhilFree:arrow:

No, Phil - it doesn't apply to me.

I'm not the one spouting off all over this board that the Chiefs HAVE to take a particular player.

I'm also not the one that is incapable of watching games and forming my own opinion.

Everyone wants to turn this into Curry v. Sanchez, when in all reality, the Curry backers are the only folks who see it this way.

To them, it's Curry or nothing.

To the Sanchez backers, they'll be thrilled if we take him, but will also accept other players. Curry just doesn't happen to be one of those players, and it chaps the ass of you guys that think Curry walks on fucking water.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:02 PM
Of course, none of us have EVER said that the Chiefs WILL take Sanchez, or anybody else for that matter.

The same can't be said for the people on the Curry side of the argument.

That should probably read "some of the people on the Curry side of the argument. I have no idea who the Chiefs will pick.


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Jesus, you whine like a bitch. All you seem to be able to do is bag on anyone who mentions taking Curry with the #3 pick and whenever pressed for your selection, all you can say is the most non-sensical of all picks - Sanchez.

I mean, seriously. You saying that you'd pick Sanchez, even after the Chiefs traded for Cassel, and then giving shit to people who want to draft Curry is the most hypocritical, dipshitiest thing I've seen on this topic.

Reading is fundemental:

http://www.chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5647979#post5647979

Yeah, terribly difficult.

I'd take Sanchez, Brown or even *gasp* Crabtree at #3 before I took an ILB that high.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:03 PM
Of course, none of us have EVER said that the Chiefs WILL take Sanchez, or anybody else for that matter.

The same can't be said for the people on the Curry side of the argument.

Exactly.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:08 PM
No, Phil - it doesn't apply to me.

I'm not the one spouting off all over this board that the Chiefs HAVE to take a particular player.

I'm also not the one that is incapable of watching games and forming my own opinion.

Everyone wants to turn this into Curry v. Sanchez, when in all reality, the Curry backers are the only folks who see it this way.

To them, it's Curry or nothing.

To the Sanchez backers, they'll be thrilled if we take him, but will also accept other players. Curry just doesn't happen to be one of those players, and it chaps the ass of you guys that think Curry walks on ****ing water.

Obviuosly you haven't comprehended everything I've posted on the subject. I have no problem taking Curry or Sanchez or any other player who is worth our pick but the arguments against Curry are not very sound IMO so I've refuted them. Got it?

PhilFree:arrow:

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 03:11 PM
Again, I think people have expectations of Curry that he's going to struggle to meet.

All I would expect of a first round pick is that they play to approximately the top 10% of their position within three years.

But no pick is a sure thing, and you have to realize that there are booms and busts out there in any round. Pro Bowl guys can be found in free agency and first rounders are often out of the league in a couple years. Realizing that, and realizing the need of the Chiefs for quality football players immediately, I wouldn't mind it if they selected Curry with that pick. He's not a sure thing, but everyone in the know seems to feel that he's as close as you can get in this draft - a guy with Pro-Bowl potential who could be a starter for a team for the next ten years. I think that the Chiefs need players like that more than they do a guy that characterizes a "boom/bust" type guy. If the Chiefs can establish themselves in the next couple of years from a personel standpoint, then I don't mind making those draft day "reaches" on such players while you fill the gaps with quality free agents. But the team has to be on a solid foundation player wise to be able to do that.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:13 PM
Obviuosly you haven't comprehended everything I've posted on the subject. I have no problem taking Curry or Sanchez or any other player who is worth our pick but the arguments against Curry are not very sound IMO so I've refuted them. Got it?

PhilFree:arrow:

The arguments against Curry aren't sound?

You mean THESE arguments?

There has been ONE MLB/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

He won't have the impact of a player like Patrick Willis, who was taken 11th overall in a bad class, Brian Urlacher who was taken 9th in a bad class, or Ray Lewis who was taken 26th, the 4th LB taken in his class?

MLB is one ofthe least important positions on the front 7?

Should I go on?

RustShack
04-07-2009, 03:15 PM
The arguments against Curry aren't sound?

You mean THESE arguments?

There has been ONE MBL/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

He won't have the impact of a player like Patrick Willis, who was taken 11th overall in a bad class, Brian Urlacher who was taken 9th in a bad class, or Ray Lewis who was taken 26th, the 4th LB taken in his class?

MLB is one ofthe least important positions on the front 7?

Should I go on?

I can't believe how draft stupid some people are... Its OK when they know they don't know, but its sad when they think they know.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:24 PM
The arguments against Curry aren't sound?

You mean THESE arguments?

There has been ONE MLB/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

He won't have the impact of a player like Patrick Willis, who was taken 11th overall in a bad class, Brian Urlacher who was taken 9th in a bad class, or Ray Lewis who was taken 26th, the 4th LB taken in his class?

MLB is one ofthe least important positions on the front 7?

Should I go on?

Those things have nothing to do with the players available in the 2009 draft. We can only pick from the players available and the ones who play the positions of greater value aren't that good. Except Stafford, Sanchez and a couple OTs. And you don't know what impact Curry will have period so that line of argumentation is just a bunch of BS. And there's no value at #3 for Curry? LOL There's a whole lot of people who make their living working the draft who think other wise.

PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:25 PM
Those things have nothing to do with the players available in the 2009 draft. We can only pick from the players available and the ones who play the positions of greater value aren't that good. Except Stafford, Sanchez and a couple OTs. And you don't know what impact Curry will have period so that line of argumentation is just a bunch of BS. And there's no value at #3 for Curry? LOL There's a whole lot of people who make their living working the draft who think other wise.

PhilFree:arrow:

Wow, way to "refute" those arguments.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:26 PM
I can't believe how draft stupid some people are... Its OK when they know they don't know, but its sad when they think they know.

There's the genious again. Don't fall off your pedestal you might burst your bubble.


PhilFree:arrow:

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:29 PM
Wow, way to "refute" those arguments.

Well you haven't made a valid point about the players in this draft so I guess we're even. LOL How silly.


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:35 PM
Well you haven't made a valid point about the players in this draft so I guess we're even. LOL How silly.


PhilFree:arrow:

And that has WHAT to do with refuting these arguments, as you claimed you've already done?

Let's go through one by one:


There has been ONE MLB/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

So, NFL decision makers think so highly of taking a MLB in the Top 3, that it's happened ONCE in the past twenty years? The best MLB of that timeframe was taken TWENTY SIXTH. Others of comparable talent went no higher than NINTH.

Please, explain.

There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

See above. Also, there are quite a few LB's that WERE taken Top 3, primarily because they COULD rush the passer, and EXCELLED at it in college.

MLB is one of the least important positions on the front 7?

Please, refute this. I'd like to know why you consider the MLB position so valuable, more valuable than DE, pass rushing OLB or DT.

I'll wait. Shouldn't take long, as you claim you have already refuted these points. Please forgive me for missing said post.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 03:42 PM
Those things have nothing to do with the players available in the 2009 draft.

What?

There's a whole lot of people who make their living working the draft who think other wise.

You do realize that many of the draftniks with Curry in their Top 5 start their analysis with "This really isn't good value for an ILB, but..."?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 03:45 PM
Obviuosly you haven't comprehended everything I've posted on the subject. I have no problem taking Curry or Sanchez or any other player who is worth our pick but the arguments against Curry are not very sound IMO so I've refuted them. Got it?

PhilFree:arrow:

It's the same thing with people around here saying that the Chiefs would be stupid to draft Brian Orakpo because he's from Texas.

A generalization that has nothing to do with the player himself. There have been plenty of players from Texas who have gone on to quality careers, and there have been plenty who have been what people considered "busts." A perfect example is the 2001 draft, when Leonard Davis was selected #2 and Casey Hampton was selected #19......although, Davis did go to the Pro Bowl in 2007 and Dallas thought well enough of him to pay him 7 million a year on a seven year contract...perhaps that's a bad example. A better one might be the 2002 draft with Mike Williams and Quentin Jammer. Jammer has had a pretty decent career, but Williams is now out of the league.

Anyway, people around here are so quick to discount the opinions of those interested in the Chiefs possibly drafting Curry, but are refuted by others saying that you don't draft a ILB that high even if he's the best player in the draft. They'd rather it be a DE or OLB, but just as long as it's not Brian Orakpo - the guy who was the Big 12 Defensive freshman of the year, on AP's first team Freshman All-American team, and by the time he was a senior ended up being an unanimous First Team All-American while winning the Bill Willis award, the Lombardi Award, the Ted Hendricks Award and the Bronco Nagurski Trophy. Guy must suck something fierce...wait...I don't think that they had those things out to people who suck. Maybe these CP insiders have super secret knowledge and while bagging on people who want Curry, because these CP Insiders know that Curry will have no impact on a game because the ILB is worthless and that the defense should be really only played with 10 guys because the ILB is such a meaningless position, they also bag on a guy like Orakpo, who, while playing a meaningful position such as ROLB/RDE and winning such accolades as the Lombardi, Nagurski and Hendricks Trophies for being the best RDE/ROLB in college, sucks bags of doggie poo because he played at Texas. So the best ROLB/RDE sucks balls, the ILB position in general sucks dog balls and so does Curry.

At least to me, from analyzing the CP Insiders opinions, we will be drafting Mark Sanchez, because we need our QBOTF because Matt Cassel, while going to the same school as Sanchez and learning under Brady and going 11-5 his first season on the field, is not an acceptable alternative to the quarterback position. Only Sanchez can fill that void. Cassel will be his understudy, and the Chiefs will finally go to the Superbowl because we have drafted Sanchez and Cassel will be his backup. The Chiefs using their first two draft picks now have that depth at quarterback that finally gets them over the hump and into the annals of NFL football history! I smell dynasty with that awesome 1-2 punch at quarterback!!!!

That or Michael Crabtree.

I'm glad I've finally found the light. Thanks CP Insiders!

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:47 PM
It's the same thing with people around here saying that the Chiefs would be stupid to draft Brian Orakpo because he's from Texas.

What about the people that could care less where he played, and think he's not worth the pick because he disappeared in big games?

Mecca
04-07-2009, 03:49 PM
The history of Texas players is fucking awful, unless the guy is an absolutely special player it should be of concern.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:50 PM
And that has WHAT to do with refuting these arguments, as you claimed you've already done?

Let's go through one by one:


There has been ONE MLB/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

So, NFL decision makers think so highly of taking a MLB in the Top 3, that it's happened ONCE in the past twenty years? The best MLB of that timeframe was taken TWENTY SIXTH. Others of comparable talent went no higher than NINTH.

Please, explain.


There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

See above. Also, there are quite a few LB's that WERE taken Top 3, primarily because they COULD rush the passer, and EXCELLED at it in college.

MLB is one of the least important positions on the front 7?

Please, refute this. I'd like to know why you consider the MLB position so valuable, more valuable than DE, pass rushing OLB or DT.

I'll wait. Shouldn't take long, as you claim you have already refuted these points. Please forgive me for missing said post.

You really don't get reality do you? The players in this draft and how the teams view them is all that matters. What happened in the past or a bunch of unwritten draft rules don't mean squat. Also at some point BPA will have greater value then a player with PV. If that wasn't the case every team would pick a QB in the 1st round of the draft.

PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:53 PM
You really don't get reality do you? The players in this draft and how the teams view them is all that matters. What happened in the past or a bunch of unwritten draft rules don't mean squat. Also at some point BPA will have greater value then a player with PV. If that wasn't the case every team would pick a QB in the 1st round of the draft.

PhilFree:arrow:

What I do get is that you keep ignoring the posts of both htismaqe and myself.

Get on with it. Refute those arguments.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 03:53 PM
What I do get is that you keep ignoring the posts of both htismaqe and myself.

Get on with it. Refute those arguments.

It's not going to happen...

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 03:54 PM
It's the same thing with people around here saying that the Chiefs would be stupid to draft Brian Orakpo because he's from Texas.

When you start to reach the 80th-percentile range, one would be wise to take a closer look.

A generalization that has nothing to do with the player himself.

Generalizations like this one don't generally appear out of thin air.

Jammer has had a pretty decent career, but Williams is now out of the league.

Jammer is one of the biggest disappointments on that team. The fans by and large are disappointed with him, and the team thinks so much of him that they've spent THREE FIRST ROUND PICKS (and one 2nd) since they drafted him.

As for the rest of your post, I don't think the Chiefs NEED to do anything. They could pick just about anybody and I can't do a damn thing about it.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 03:55 PM
You really don't get reality do you? The players in this draft and how the teams view them is all that matters. What happened in the past or a bunch of unwritten draft rules don't mean squat.

You want to throw "reality" in people's faces and then you say that history has absolutely no bearing on the draft?

Seriously, man, you realize how dumb that sounds?

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 03:55 PM
It's not going to happen...

Trust me, I know.

I'm enjoying watching him avoid them at all costs.

philfree
04-07-2009, 03:56 PM
What?



You do realize that many of the draftniks with Curry in their Top 5 start their analysis with "This really isn't good value for an ILB, but..."?


But? The players who have positional value aren't good enough to surpass him on their draft boards?

PhilFree:arrow:

Mecca
04-07-2009, 03:57 PM
Draftniks weren't putting Curry in their top 5 till he got ridiculous hype from Mayock and the like and they basically begrudgingly go against their beliefs and put him there going "I think this is bad value but I have to put him here just cause"

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 04:00 PM
Draftniks weren't putting Curry in their top 5 till he got ridiculous hype from Mayock and the like and they basically begrudgingly go against their beliefs and put him there going "I think this is bad value but I have to put him here just cause"

You've been given links before that refute your claim.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:02 PM
You've been given links before that refute your claim.

Profootball weekly is not a "draftnik" publication or really anything like that and for the last time they are like the sporting news they suck balls.

So stop bringing it up before I personally insult you.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:03 PM
You've been given links before that refute your claim.

I'd like to see these "links." Plural.

I'm assuming there's only two, out of what HUNDREDS of draft sites?

You can't possibly argue that Curry was universally thought of as a Top 5 pick BEFORE Mayock started pimping him. Hell, forget universally, I'll take the majority.

I'm guessing you'll find a handful, at best.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:05 PM
I'd like to see these "links." Plural.

I'm assuming there's only two, out of what HUNDREDS of draft sites?

You can't possibly argue that Curry was universally thought of as a Top 5 pick BEFORE Mayock started pimping him. Hell, forget universally, I'll take the majority.

I'm guessing you'll find a handful, at best.

He's got profootball weekly...who I'd laugh at as a legit draft source.

philfree
04-07-2009, 04:06 PM
You want to throw "reality" in people's faces and then you say that history has absolutely no bearing on the draft?

Seriously, man, you realize how dumb that sounds?

The reality of the situation heading into the 2009 draft is that the players at the positions of greater value aren't considered to be as good as a prospect who palys a position considered to be of lesser in value. What's so hard about that?
Also I don't think the GMs stack their draft boards based on how the players fell in previous drafts. And if they want to go off history then there is no way anyone takes SAnchez @ #3. History says he will bust.

PhilFree:arrow:

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 04:10 PM
He's got profootball weekly...who I'd laugh at as a legit draft source.

A week before the draft (before you can copy Gosselin or Wrights or Mayock's final mocks) post your mock and we'll see if it is more accurate than the source that you laugh at.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:11 PM
He's got profootball weekly...who I'd laugh at as a legit draft source.

That's it?

He said he had "links." Plural. As in "more than one."

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:11 PM
And you aren't even using their mock you're using their "player ranking" list which if you notice doesn't typically coincide with a mock.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:11 PM
And that has WHAT to do with refuting these arguments, as you claimed you've already done?

Let's go through one by one:


There has been ONE MLB/ILB taken in the Top 3 in the past TWENTY years, and he was a monumental bust?

So, NFL decision makers think so highly of taking a MLB in the Top 3, that it's happened ONCE in the past twenty years? The best MLB of that timeframe was taken TWENTY SIXTH. Others of comparable talent went no higher than NINTH.

Please, explain.

Perhaps the NFL decision makers feel that Curry is better than the others and justifies a top three pick? That he transcends what is generally considered a position of less importance, at least when drafting unproven college players.

There is no value at the #3 slot for a LB that would have to learn how to rush the passer?

See above. Also, there are quite a few LB's that WERE taken Top 3, primarily because they COULD rush the passer, and EXCELLED at it in college.

In the past ten years, here are your top 3 rushers:

1998: Andre Wadsworth
1999: N/A
2000: Courtney Brown, Lavarr Arrington
2001: N/A
2002: Julius Peppers
2003: N/A
2004: N/A
2005: N/A
2006: Mario Williams
2007: N/A
2008: Chris Long

Whoops. Wait a minute. You said linebackers. Okay. So scratch Wadsworth, Brown, Peppers, Williams and Long from that list.

So in the past ten years, the NFL decision makers thought that only Lavarr Arrington was worth a top three NFL draft pick. I wonder if they feel that the rush backer position is a position of little importance considering that there has only been one outside linebacker taken in the top three in the past ten years?

I'm not sure how only Arrington translates into "quite a few" though...hmmmm.

MLB is one of the least important positions on the front 7?

Please, refute this. I'd like to know why you consider the MLB position so valuable, more valuable than DE, pass rushing OLB or DT.

Because the MLB must have the knowledge to quickly recognize the offensive sets and call adjustments to them quickly. They also have to possess excellent instincts as they are responsible for finding the ball on every play and stopping the play as quickly as possible. They have to be athletic enough to support both the run and the pass, and cover tight ends, receivers and backs. Their area of responsibility on the field is much greater than other positions.

A rush end has one simple task. Get the quarterback. If they do it but once a game, they are considered a great success. A defensive tackle, depending upon the scheme is basically required to tie up blockers to allow the more athletic players to make plays. It's not asking much for a big fat dude to stand in the middle of the field and waddle towards another big fat dude. However, a ILB is requried to do so much more. And that's why I consider it a position of high importance on the defensive side of the ball.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:12 PM
Why would anyone argue the value of LB in the draft when they just frankly don't go top 5, what are you trying to do argue history?

philfree
04-07-2009, 04:17 PM
He's got profootball weekly...who I'd laugh at as a legit draft source.


How bout you supply the links where Curry wasn't ranked in the top five way back when. I know Mayock had him at he top from the get go. He'll your hero Scott Wright has him at #2 right now. You have a link where Wright didn't have Curry top 5?


PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:18 PM
Perhaps the NFL decision makers feel that Curry is better than the others and justifies a top three pick? That he transcends what is generally considered a position of less importance, at least when drafting unproven college players.

So your hanging your argument on the hope that NFL GM's think that Curry is a better player than Lewis, Urlacher, Mayo, Rivers, Willis, etc?

ROFL

OK.




In the past ten years, here are your top 3 rushers:

1998: Andre Wadsworth
1999: N/A
2000: Courtney Brown, Lavarr Arrington
2001: N/A
2002: Julius Peppers
2003: N/A
2004: N/A
2005: N/A
2006: Mario Williams
2007: N/A
2008: Chris Long

Whoops. Wait a minute. You said linebackers. Okay. So scratch Wadsworth, Brown, Peppers, Williams and Long from that list.

So in the past ten years, the NFL decision makers thought that only Lavarr Arrington was worth a top three NFL draft pick. I wonder if they feel that the rush backer position is a position of little importance considering that there has only been one outside linebacker taken in the top three in the past ten years?

Interesting that you stopped at 10 years, when the timeline we were discussing was 20 years.

Oh, wait.

I see.

Quite disingenuous of you.



Because the MLB must have the knowledge to quickly recognize the offensive sets and call adjustments to them quickly. They also have to possess excellent instincts as they are responsible for finding the ball on every play and stopping the play as quickly as possible. They have to be athletic enough to support both the run and the pass, and cover tight ends, receivers and backs. Their area of responsibility on the field is much greater than other positions.

A rush end has one simple task. Get the quarterback. If they do it but once a game, they are considered a great success. A defensive tackle, depending upon the scheme is basically required to tie up blockers to allow the more athletic players to make plays. It's not asking much for a big fat dude to stand in the middle of the field and waddle towards another big fat dude. However, a ILB is requried to do so much more. And that's why I consider it a position of high importance on the defensive side of the ball.

So, which is it?

High importance, or more important that a DE, pass rushing OLB or DT?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:20 PM
Why would anyone argue the value of LB in the draft when they just frankly don't go top 5, what are you trying to do argue history?

Because OTW is having a hissy fit about it. He wanted someone to refute something, said that OLB have been a regularity in the top three in the draft, and I thought I'd oblige him by showing him that they weren't. Go bust his balls, not mine. I was just trying to stop him from squealing "REFUTE IT" over and over.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:21 PM
I'm pretty sure his argument is about how LB's don't go in the top 5....not that they do.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 04:22 PM
The reality of the situation heading into the 2009 draft is that the players at the positions of greater value aren't considered to be as good as a prospect who palys a position considered to be of lesser in value. What's so hard about that?

Nothing is hard about that. You made a blanket, ABSOLUTE statement that history doesn't matter. That couldn't be more false.

And if they want to go off history then there is no way anyone takes SAnchez @ #3. History says he will bust.

Valid point. Touche.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:28 PM
Because OTW is having a hissy fit about it. He wanted someone to refute something, said that OLB have been a regularity in the top three in the draft, and I thought I'd oblige him by showing him that they weren't. Go bust his balls, not mine. I was just trying to stop him from squealing "REFUTE IT" over and over.

That's not at ALL what I said. Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said it happened with regularity, only that OLB's are taken that high much more than ILB's.

Also, there are quite a few LB's that WERE taken Top 3, primarily because they COULD rush the passer, and EXCELLED at it in college.

"Quite a few" doesn't have to equal much more than one, in this case, as there was only one MLB taken in the Top 5 in the past 20 years. Where I screwed up was changing to Top 3 from the Top 5 that Phil was speaking of.

Arrington
Hardy
Marvin Jones
Mike Croel
Keith McCants
Junior Seau
Derrick Thomas

That's "quite" a few more OLB's to be taken that high versus ILB's.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:29 PM
Kevin Hardy is what I think Aaron Curry is if you want a comparison for what I think his career is going to be.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:30 PM
I'm pretty sure his argument is about how LB's don't go in the top 5....not that they do.

This.

The whole point is that even the BEST OLB's don't often go in the Top 5. The best ILB has gone that high ONCE.

Look at the above post as proof.

So, people think that Curry is better than all of those ILB's, and most of the OLB's in past drafts?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:36 PM
So your hanging your argument on the hope that NFL GM's think that Curry is a better player than Lewis, Urlacher, Mayo, Rivers, Willis, etc?

ROFL

OK.

Seems like he's being touted as such. Casserly, who's done the GM thing before, stated he was the best LB that he's seen in the past 10 years. If other GM's see it that way, then I guess he is or is considered to be. I guess we'll find out on draft day.

Interesting that you stopped at 10 years, when the timeline we were discussing was 20 years.

Oh, wait.

I see.

Quite disingenuous of you.

I didn't see where you said 20 years. Fine. Here:

1988: Aundray Bruce
1989: N/A
1990: N/A
1991: N/A
1992: Quentinn Coryatt - Whoops. He was a MLB. Sorry, he doesn't count.
1993: N/A
1994: N/A
1995: N/A
1996: Kevin Hardy
1997: N/A

Okay. So in 20 years, you've had NFL teams pick a OLB three times in the top three. Still doesn't seem to be "a lot" does it?

Arrington, Bruce and Hardy. Whatcha think now?

So, which is it?

High importance, or more important that a DE, pass rushing OLB or DT?

Let's see...we had the best, most complete DE in Jared Allen, but he really didn't seem to get us over the hump. Hell, our defense, even with him on the roster, was the laughing stock of the NFL. Derrick might have been the best rushing OLB in NFL history, but yet, how many playoff games did we win with him on the roster? How many Super Bowls? A defensive tackle? A big fat space eater that's meant to free up the ILB?

I'd like "The more important position on the defense" for $1000 Alex.

What is ILB? Yeah, I win football Jeopardy!!!

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:39 PM
I'm pretty sure his argument is about how LB's don't go in the top 5....not that they do.

Oh no. He specifically said that "quite a few LB were taken in the top three because they could rush the passer and excelled at it in college." His words, not mine.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:39 PM
No offense or anything but Charley Casserly was a brutal GM.

philfree
04-07-2009, 04:40 PM
This.

The whole point is that even the BEST OLB's don't often go in the Top 5. The best ILB has gone that high ONCE.

Look at the above post as proof.

So, people think that Curry is better than all of those ILB's, and most of the OLB's in past drafts?

The people who have defended Curry have done so because they think he's a better prospect in this draft then the other prospects in this draft. It's all about this draft and the players in it and nothing more. Well unless you want to reach for positional value and then it becomes trying to prove you're right.


PhilFree:arrow:

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:41 PM
That's not at ALL what I said. Quit putting words in my mouth. I never said it happened with regularity, only that OLB's are taken that high much more than ILB's.

"Quite a few" doesn't have to equal much more than one, in this case, as there was only one MLB taken in the Top 5 in the past 20 years. Where I screwed up was changing to Top 3 from the Top 5 that Phil was speaking of.

Now who is the one being disingenuous?

bdeg
04-07-2009, 04:45 PM
He's average the same amount of sacks and 20 less tackles per year than Tamba Hali, and people around here have no problem jumping all over Hali's ass for being a bust, especially when he was picked 16 slots lower than Adams.

adams has been going against lt's the whole time as their main threat. Tamba got almost all his sacks against RT's, with jared pressuring and drawing extra blocking.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:47 PM
Now who is the one being disingenuous?

Do you know what disingenous means? I'm not the one putting words in people's mouths like "regularity." I'm also not changing the parameters of the argument to suit my argument, as you did.

My typo made things harder on me. I didn't get an advantage in the argument with that typo.

Go back and read the thread. Phil references Top 5.

The points still stand.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 04:49 PM
The people who have defended Curry have done so because they think he's a better prospect in this draft then the other prospects in this draft. It's all about this draft and the players in it and nothing more. Well unless you want to reach for positional value and then it becomes trying to prove you're right.


PhilFree:arrow:

It's official.

You haven't read a single post of htismaqe's or mine, or you have the greatest reading comprehension issue known to man.

Either way, I'm done.

It's not really a debate when one person puts his fingers in his ears and ignores others points, then tries to claim he "refuted" said points.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 04:50 PM
The people who have defended Curry have done so because they think he's a better prospect in this draft then the other prospects in this draft. It's all about this draft and the players in it and nothing more. Well unless you want to reach for positional value and then it becomes trying to prove you're right.


PhilFree:arrow:

If you want to go just by THIS draft and ignore history, what is the drop-off between Curry and say, Rey Rey?

Compare that to the drop-off between Stafford/Sanchez and Josh Freeman.

There's far more value in Sanchez than Curry, no matter how you slice it.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 04:53 PM
No offense or anything but Charley Casserly was a brutal GM.

He did get the bum rush for picking Super Mario instead of Young or Bush and he looks like he did the right thing. However, the guy did do the GM bit for a while, so he's been in the business of evaluating players and the like. Just trying to provide a bit of objective analysis in backing Curry as a legit pick at #3. I'd take Casserly's word over the mock draft meat heads, and even the mock meat heads have Curry high. Guy had a great combine, has great fundamentals, has a nose for the ball, fight through and sheds blocks very well, etc. It seems that everyone thinks he's a legit top ten type of player.

I'm just saying that people don't need to go ballistic if someone says that Curry would be a legit pick by the Chiefs at that spot.

Curry, Orakpo, Monroe, Smith(s), Crabtree, Oher, Maclin, Brown, Jackson, Wells would/could all be considered a legit pick by the Chiefs at that point.

And depending upon what the Chiefs do with Larry, people should start looking at Beanie Wells with a little more than just a casual interest at that three spot.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 04:55 PM
Curry, Orakpo, Monroe, Smith(s), Crabtree, Oher, Maclin, Brown, Jackson, Wells would/could all be considered a legit pick by the Chiefs at that point.

Just understand that "legit" and "good" are two completely different things.

And Beanie Wells at #3? I want some of what you're smoking.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Charlie Casserly also thought Troy Williamson was going to be a superstar lets fathom that.

bdeg
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Perhaps the NFL decision makers feel that Curry is better than the others and justifies a top three pick? That he transcends what is generally considered a position of less importance, at least when drafting unproven college players.



In the past ten years, here are your top 3 rushers:

1998: Andre Wadsworth
1999: N/A
2000: Courtney Brown, Lavarr Arrington
2001: N/A
2002: Julius Peppers
2003: N/A
2004: N/A
2005: N/A
2006: Mario Williams
2007: N/A
2008: Chris Long

Whoops. Wait a minute. You said linebackers. Okay. So scratch Wadsworth, Brown, Peppers, Williams and Long from that list.

So in the past ten years, the NFL decision makers thought that only Lavarr Arrington was worth a top three NFL draft pick. I wonder if they feel that the rush backer position is a position of little importance considering that there has only been one outside linebacker taken in the top three in the past ten years?

I'm not sure how only Arrington translates into "quite a few" though...hmmmm.



Because the MLB must have the knowledge to quickly recognize the offensive sets and call adjustments to them quickly. They also have to possess excellent instincts as they are responsible for finding the ball on every play and stopping the play as quickly as possible. They have to be athletic enough to support both the run and the pass, and cover tight ends, receivers and backs. Their area of responsibility on the field is much greater than other positions.

A rush end has one simple task. Get the quarterback. If they do it but once a game, they are considered a great success. A defensive tackle, depending upon the scheme is basically required to tie up blockers to allow the more athletic players to make plays. It's not asking much for a big fat dude to stand in the middle of the field and waddle towards another big fat dude. However, a ILB is requried to do so much more. And that's why I consider it a position of high importance on the defensive side of the ball.

Rush backers were previously considered tweeners. If a DE who could rush was too small, he would drop down boards until a 3-4 team picked him up. These guys aren't going to drop as far with so many more 3-4 teams, the need for these guys has gone up. Their value has always been high, look at the contract Adalius Thomas signed.

That said, I don't advocate reaching for an olb if they really believe it's much of a reach.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
He did get the bum rush for picking Super Mario instead of Young or Bush and he looks like he did the right thing. However, the guy did do the GM bit for a while, so he's been in the business of evaluating players and the like. Just trying to provide a bit of objective analysis in backing Curry as a legit pick at #3. I'd take Casserly's word over the mock draft meat heads, and even the mock meat heads have Curry high. Guy had a great combine, has great fundamentals, has a nose for the ball, fight through and sheds blocks very well, etc. It seems that everyone thinks he's a legit top ten type of player.

I'm just saying that people don't need to go ballistic if someone says that Curry would be a legit pick by the Chiefs at that spot.

Curry, Orakpo, Monroe, Smith(s), Crabtree, Oher, Maclin, Brown, Jackson, Wells would/could all be considered a legit pick by the Chiefs at that point.

And depending upon what the Chiefs do with Larry, people should start looking at Beanie Wells with a little more than just a casual interest at that three spot.

JFC.

I think I'm cashing in my chips after I finish my responsibilities with this mock.

I can't take this fucktarded hive mind that's spread across this place the last two months.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 04:56 PM
Rush backers were previously considered tweeners. If a DE who could rush was too small, he would drop down boards until a 3-4 team picked him up. These guys aren't going to drop as far with so many more 3-4 teams, the need for these guys has gone up. Their value has always been high, look at the contract Adalius Thomas signed.

This.

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 04:57 PM
Let's see...we had the best, most complete DE in Jared Allen, but he really didn't seem to get us over the hump. Hell, our defense, even with him on the roster, was the laughing stock of the NFL. Derrick might have been the best rushing OLB in NFL history, but yet, how many playoff games did we win with him on the roster? How many Super Bowls? A defensive tackle? A big fat space eater that's meant to free up the ILB?

I'd like "The more important position on the defense" for $1000 Alex.

What is ILB? Yeah, I win football Jeopardy!!!

Wait....what? So having an all-pro ILB is going to win you a championship?

Let's take a look back at the Superbowl champs....and who played ILB for them....shall we.

2008 - Steelers - Larry Foote (4th round) and Lawrence Timmons (1st round)
2007 - Giants - Antonio Pierce (UDFA)
2006 - Colts - Gary Brackett (UDFA)
2005 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2004 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2003 - Buccaneers - Shelton Quarles (UDFA)
2002 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round)
2001 - Ravens - Ray Lewis (1st round)
2000 - Rams - London Fletcher (UDFA)
1999 - Broncos - Glenn Cadrez (6th round)
1998 - Broncos - Allen Aldridge (2nd round)

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:00 PM
Do you know what disingenous means? I'm not the one putting words in people's mouths like "regularity." I'm also not changing the parameters of the argument to suit my argument, as you did.

My typo made things harder on me. I didn't get an advantage in the argument with that typo.

Go back and read the thread. Phil references Top 5.

The points still stand.

You called me disingenuous for only posting ten years of OLB drafts, when I never saw mention of a required 20 year window. So that I wouldn't be considered "disingenuous," I posted the other ten years.

And I wasn't responding to Phil. I was responding to you. You said top three. Now you want top five.

I'm also not changing the parameters of the argument to suit my argument, as you did.

So, to answer your question, yes, I definitely know what "disingenuous" means. Question is, do you?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:01 PM
Just understand that "legit" and "good" are two completely different things.

And Beanie Wells at #3? I want some of what you're smoking.

No you don't. You couldn't handle it.

Besides, I'm just trying to get beyond the Curry vs. Sanchez thing. You wanted people to open up to the realm of possibilities, no? If Johnson is gone, you've got to think about Wells being a possibility, even if it is remote.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 05:03 PM
I can't believe we are still having an argument about LB value, either you understand it or you don't, it's like RB value or interior offensive line or TE value.

philfree
04-07-2009, 05:04 PM
If you want to go just by THIS draft and ignore history, what is the drop-off between Curry and say, Rey Rey?

Compare that to the drop-off between Stafford/Sanchez and Josh Freeman.

There's far more value in Sanchez than Curry, no matter how you slice it.

Sanchez is such a big risk though. If the Chiefs were to draft Sanchez I'd be o.k. with it because we have a guy who can start while he learns for a year or two. And also because the rate that QBs get injured in the NFL is significant. Cassel could leave the field the same way Brady did last year. 1st half of the 1st game of the season. Still Sanchez is a risky pick at #3.

PhilFree:arrow:

bdeg
04-07-2009, 05:05 PM
No you don't. You couldn't handle it.

Besides, I'm just trying to get beyond the Curry vs. Sanchez thing. You wanted people to open up to the realm of possibilities, no? If Johnson is gone, you've got to think about Wells being a possibility, even if it is remote.

Unless you're looking for an even bigger argument about positional value, no thanks on Wells.

I'd rather use Charles and a bruiser picked up much later.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:05 PM
Charlie Casserly also thought Troy Williamson was going to be a superstar lets fathom that.

And it was about a 50/50 split with GM's and coaches and the like when they were considering Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning on their draft boards.

The one thing that is a known fact about the draft is that it is a crap shoot.

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 05:06 PM
And it was about a 50/50 split with GM's and coaches and the like when they were considering Ryan Leaf or Peyton Manning on their draft boards.

The one thing that is a known fact about the draft is that it is a crap shoot.

So then how the hell do you know that Aaron Curry is the safest player in the draft?

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:06 PM
Wait....what? So having an all-pro ILB is going to win you a championship?

Let's take a look back at the Superbowl champs....and who played ILB for them....shall we.

2008 - Steelers - Larry Foote (4th round) and Lawrence Timmons (1st round)
2007 - Giants - Antonio Pierce (UDFA)
2006 - Colts - Gary Brackett (UDFA)
2005 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2004 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2003 - Buccaneers - Shelton Quarles (UDFA)
2002 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round)
2001 - Ravens - Ray Lewis (1st round)
2000 - Rams - London Fletcher (UDFA)
1999 - Broncos - Glenn Cadrez (6th round)
1998 - Broncos - Allen Aldridge (2nd round)


OMG!

Look at all those Top 5 picks at ML...oh, wait.

Look all those Top 10 picks at M...shit.

Hey! Look! There's 2 first round picks on the list!...goddammit.

And 4 UDFA's, a 6th round guy, a 4th round guy, a 3rd round guy and two 2nd round guys.

Fuck.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:08 PM
You called me disingenuous for only posting ten years of OLB drafts, when I never saw mention of a required 20 year window. So that I wouldn't be considered "disingenuous," I posted the other ten years.

And I wasn't responding to Phil. I was responding to you. You said top three. Now you want top five.



So, to answer your question, yes, I definitely know what "disingenuous" means. Question is, do you?

Uh, I called you disingenuous for not only moving the goalposts, put claiming I said something I didn't say to try to aide your argument.

Pretty fucking stupid thing to do when what I DID say is right here in black and white.

Regardless, Top 3 OR Top 5, there's more OLB's taken in the past 20 years in both than there have been ILB's.

For good reason, which you and your merry band of Curry-or-busters fail to acknowledge.

bdeg
04-07-2009, 05:09 PM
Is that right, was Timmons at ILB?

Mecca
04-07-2009, 05:10 PM
No James Farrior was, Timmons rotated in and out he in actuality wasn't a starter even though he got alot of play time.

philfree
04-07-2009, 05:10 PM
I can't believe we are still having an argument about LB value, either you understand it or you don't, it's like RB value or interior offensive line or TE value.

For me it's not about LB value it's about the value of Curry compared to the other prospects in this draft. It's about this draft. And there is a point where PV will take back seat to the BPA.

PhilFree:arrow:

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:11 PM
So then how the hell do you know that Aaron Curry is the safest player in the draft?

http://i41.tinypic.com/2qbvck6.jpg

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:12 PM
Wait....what? So having an all-pro ILB is going to win you a championship?

Let's take a look back at the Superbowl champs....and who played ILB for them....shall we.

2008 - Steelers - Larry Foote (4th round) and Lawrence Timmons (1st round)
2007 - Giants - Antonio Pierce (UDFA)
2006 - Colts - Gary Brackett (UDFA)
2005 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2004 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2003 - Buccaneers - Shelton Quarles (UDFA)
2002 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round)
2001 - Ravens - Ray Lewis (1st round)
2000 - Rams - London Fletcher (UDFA)
1999 - Broncos - Glenn Cadrez (6th round)
1998 - Broncos - Allen Aldridge (2nd round)

Wasn't Farrior playing the ILB spot for the Steelers? And if he was (just a hunch), I think he was a first round draft pick, no?

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:14 PM
Wasn't Farrior playing the ILB spot for the Steelers? And if he was (just a hunch), I think he was a first round draft pick, no?

So, you swap out a 1st round pick for another 1st round pick.

Not sure how this changes anything.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 05:15 PM
For me it's not about LB value it's about the value of Curry compared to the other prospects in this draft. It's about this draft. And there is a point where PV will take back seat to the BPA.

PhilFree:arrow:

Aaron Curry being our highest paid defender is like Tony Gonzalez being our highest paid offensive player.

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:19 PM
I can't believe we are still having an argument about LB value, either you understand it or you don't, it's like RB value or interior offensive line or TE value.

I think by now everyone understands it. However, what people don't understand or can't comprehend, is that sometimes there is a player who teams consider to be "special" and that player transcends the typical positional value pick, whether that comes from a product of that player being viewed as substantially better than the majority at his position or in relationship to the other players perceived talent of that specific draft.

Winslow and Davis as tight ends. Landry as a safety last season. Peterson at RB. Willis at the ILB.

It's not like it doesn't happen. It depends on the team, it's needs and the player in question.

People around here need to stop thinking that it doesn't happen or shouldn't happen and if it does, the world and all it's occupants will implode into the Chinese Hell of Drafniks where Mel Kiper and Todd McShay and Jamie Dukes are going to gang rape you for the rest of eternity. It does happen. Apparently more than most people around here realize.

Mecca
04-07-2009, 05:20 PM
I watched Mel Kiper compare Aaron Curry to Keith Bulluck today, that's nice Keith Bulluck is not a game changing cornerstone.

philfree
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
Aaron Curry being our highest paid defender is like Tony Gonzalez being our highest paid offensive player.


We won't know for sure but he probably won't be our highest paid player for very long. Like maybe one year.


PhilFree:arrow:

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
So then how the hell do you know that Aaron Curry is the safest player in the draft?

Because he combines superb athleticism with solid fundamentals and excellent natural instincts. As such, he presents a more "complete" package with less negatives than other players in the draft. As such, he is a safer pick than someone such as say Raji, Maybin, or the like, where there are question marks about intelligence, or experience or the like.

Seems easy enough to figure out. Why is everyone struggling with this?

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
Wait....what? So having an all-pro ILB is going to win you a championship?

Let's take a look back at the Superbowl champs....and who played ILB for them....shall we.

2008 - Steelers - Larry Foote (4th round) and Lawrence Timmons (1st round)
2007 - Giants - Antonio Pierce (UDFA)
2006 - Colts - Gary Brackett (UDFA)
2005 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2004 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round) and Roman Phifer (2nd round)
2003 - Buccaneers - Shelton Quarles (UDFA)
2002 - Patriots - Tedy Bruschi (3rd round)
2001 - Ravens - Ray Lewis (1st round)
2000 - Rams - London Fletcher (UDFA)
1999 - Broncos - Glenn Cadrez (6th round)
1998 - Broncos - Allen Aldridge (2nd round)

So now that we've taken a look at the MLB/ILB on the Superbowl winning teams....let's take a look at DT, DE and OLB for those teams.....

2008 - Steelers
NT - Casey Hampton - 1st round

2007 - Giants
LE - Michael Strahan - 2nd round
RE - Osi Umeniyora - 2nd round

2006 - Colts
RE - Dwight Freeney - 1st round
LE - Robert Mathis - 5th round

2005 - Patriots
NT - Vince Wilfork - 1st round

2004 - Patriots
NT - Vince Wilfork - 1st round

2003 - Buccaneers
DT - Warren Sapp - 1st round
RE - Simeon Rice - 1st round
OLB - Derrick Brooks - 1st round

2002 - Patriots
DT - Richard Seymour - 1st round

2001 - Ravens
OLB - Peter Boulware - 1st round

2000 - Rams
LE - Grant Wistrom - 1st round

1999 - Broncos
DT - Trevor Pryce - 1st round
OLB - John Mobley - 1st round

1998 - Broncos
OLB - John Mobley - 1st round
LE - Neil Smith - 1st round

Mecca
04-07-2009, 05:23 PM
We won't know for sure but he probably won't be our highest paid player for very long. Like maybe one year.


PhilFree:arrow:

You understand if he's taken 3rd Curry is going to be one of if not the highest paid LB in the entire league?

Dicky McElephant
04-07-2009, 05:26 PM
Because he combines superb athleticism with solid fundamentals and excellent natural instincts. As such, he presents a more "complete" package with less negatives than other players in the draft. As such, he is a safer pick than someone such as say Raji, Maybin, or the like, where there are question marks about intelligence, or experience or the like.

Seems easy enough to figure out. Why is everyone struggling with this?

You can't say that the draft is a crapshoot and then say that someone is a safe pick.

Why are you struggling with this?

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 05:27 PM
So, you swap out a 1st round pick for another 1st round pick.

Not sure how this changes anything.

What? That the Steelers, who just won the Super Bowl, had two first round picks at ILB/MLB?

Nope. Doesn't change a thing for me, nor my argument about their importance.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:32 PM
What? That the Steelers, who just won the Super Bowl, had two first round picks at ILB/MLB?

Nope. Doesn't change a thing for me, nor my argument about their importance.

Larry Foote and Lawrence Timmons

Larry Foote and James Farrior.

Looks like a 4th round pick and a 1st round pick both ways to me.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 05:33 PM
So now that we've taken a look at the MLB/ILB on the Superbowl winning teams....let's take a look at DT, DE and OLB for those teams.....

2008 - Steelers
NT - Casey Hampton - 1st round

2007 - Giants
LE - Michael Strahan - 2nd round
RE - Osi Umeniyora - 2nd round

2006 - Colts
RE - Dwight Freeney - 1st round
LE - Robert Mathis - 5th round

2005 - Patriots
NT - Vince Wilfork - 1st round

2004 - Patriots
NT - Vince Wilfork - 1st round

2003 - Buccaneers
DT - Warren Sapp - 1st round
RE - Simeon Rice - 1st round
OLB - Derrick Brooks - 1st round

2002 - Patriots
DT - Richard Seymour - 1st round

2001 - Ravens
OLB - Peter Boulware - 1st round

2000 - Rams
LE - Grant Wistrom - 1st round

1999 - Broncos
DT - Trevor Pryce - 1st round
OLB - John Mobley - 1st round

1998 - Broncos
OLB - John Mobley - 1st round
LE - Neil Smith - 1st round

That settles it.

MLB is WAY more important than OLB, DE and DT.

LMAO