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Pestilence
04-07-2009, 09:51 AM
Complete with a trade.

http://profootball.scout.com/2/853317.html

KC receives: #12 and #18

Denver receives: #3

Sanchez goes #1 to the Lions
Monroe goes #2 to the Rams
Stafford goes #3 to the Broncos
Jason Smith goes #4 to the Rams
Jesus Christ goes #5 to the Broncos



The Chiefs get:

#12 - Tyson Jackson, DE, LSU
#18 - Andre Smith, OT, Alabama
:cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss::cuss:

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 09:55 AM
If we make that trade....then I'd rather see this.

#12 - Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC
#18 - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland


And even then....if Andre Smith is sitting there....I'd try and trade down with the Eagles. Give them the #18 pick for the #28 pick and their 3rd rounder.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:17 AM
I'd rather not have Heyward-Bey that early. Andre Smith at #18 is intriguing as a RT prospect.

That all being said, another trade down with the Eagles sounds like a plan.

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 10:35 AM
I'd rather not have Heyward-Bey that early. Andre Smith at #18 is intriguing as a RT prospect.

That all being said, another trade down with the Eagles sounds like a plan.
#3 to Denver for #12 and #18
#12 and our 3rd to Philly for the #21 and #28


KC Selects:

#18 OT Andre Smith
#21 WR Darius Hayward-Bey
#28 DE Robert Ayers


:D

bdeg
04-07-2009, 10:37 AM
#3 to Denver for #12 and #18
#12 and our 3rd to Philly for the #21 and #28


KC Selects:

#18 OT Andre Smith
#21 WR Darius Hayward-Bey
#28 DE Robert Ayers


:D
Yuck.

That has the potential to be a 3 round bustathon.

Ayers has no place on this team.

ChiefsCountry
04-07-2009, 10:37 AM
I could live with Andre Smith at 18, a top 3 talent at 18. I dont think he is good as Albert but damn he could be a nice RT.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:41 AM
#3 to Denver for #12 and #18
#12 and our 3rd to Philly for the #21 and #28


KC Selects:

#18 OT Andre Smith
#21 WR Darius Hayward-Bey
#28 DE Robert Ayers


:D

ROFL

You're an awful, awful person.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 10:41 AM
I could live with Andre Smith at 18, a top 3 talent at 18. I dont think he is good as Albert but damn he could be a nice RT.

Kind of what I was thinking.

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 10:41 AM
#3 to Denver for #12 and #18
#12 and our 3rd to Philly for the #21 and #28


KC Selects:

#18 OT Andre Smith
#21 WR Darius Hayward-Bey
#28 DE Robert Ayers


:D

Ok but why would Philly be trading up to #12? If they're trading up....then I believe they are trading up to grab an OT. So I would think that Smith would be gone at #18.

If that's the case....then I'd rather have this.

#18 - Knowshown Moreno, RB, Georgia
#21 - Clay Matthews, OLB, USC

Then I'd take the #28 and trade back to the top of the 2nd round.

bdeg
04-07-2009, 10:42 AM
18. Maualuga (would be lucky) 21 any chance Maclin falls here? 28 Barwin

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 10:42 AM
I could live with Andre Smith at 18, a top 3 talent at 18. I dont think he is good as Albert but damn he could be a nice RT.

Kind of what I was thinking.

So you'd be happy with Rey-Rey at #12 and Andre Smith at #18?

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 10:44 AM
Ok but why would Philly be trading up to #12? If they're trading up....then I believe they are trading up to grab an OT. So I would think that Smith would be gone at #18.

If that's the case....then I'd rather have this.

#18 - Knowshown Moreno, RB, Georgia
#21 - Clay Matthews, OLB, USC

Then I'd take the #28 and trade in to the top of the 2nd round.
I'm just messing around man, i have no idea. Geez.

Everyone is in such a hurry to attack. :doh!:

bdeg
04-07-2009, 10:46 AM
Krabs playing the victim instead of the bully, thats funny

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 10:48 AM
Krabs playing the victim instead of the bully, thats funny
Close your mouth your breath reeks of ass.

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 10:59 AM
I'm just messing around man, i have no idea. Geez.

Everyone is in such a hurry to attack. :doh!:

Just giving you shit man. :D

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 11:00 AM
Just giving you shit man. :D
:moon:

Saccopoo
04-07-2009, 11:08 AM
If we make that trade....then I'd rather see this.

#12 - Rey Maualuga, ILB, USC
#18 - Darrius Heyward-Bey, WR, Maryland

Not to be rude, but I can't imagine a worse situation for the Chiefs. We waste a #3 to get the second coming of Kawika Mitchell and Renaldo Nehemiah? Yeesh....

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 11:10 AM
Not to be rude, but I can't imagine a worse situation for the Chiefs. We waste a #3 to get the second coming of Kawika Mitchell and Renaldo Nehemiah? Yeesh....

:spock:

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 11:11 AM
Not to be rude, but I can't imagine a worse situation for the Chiefs. We waste a #3 to get the second coming of Kawika Mitchell and Renaldo Nehemiah? Yeesh....Snap!

Oh noe 'e didn'

http://www1.istockphoto.com/file_thumbview_approve/2547683/2/istockphoto_2547683_oh_no_you_didn_t.jpg

Great Expectations
04-07-2009, 11:19 AM
So you'd be happy with Rey-Rey at #12 and Andre Smith at #18?

I would be.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 11:22 AM
So you'd be happy with Rey-Rey at #12 and Andre Smith at #18?

Let's just say I'm not opposed.

kcbubb
04-07-2009, 11:22 AM
would be thrilled with Smith at 18 to play RT!!! he's an awesome run blocker. that trade would never happen though.

Mr. Krab
04-07-2009, 11:25 AM
I don't see the appeal of Rey. He's physical but gets caught up in the wash quite a bit to be consider elite. Andre Smith is a risk but good value in the 2nd half of round 1.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 11:27 AM
Change our picks to Everette Brown and Rey Maualuga and you have yourselves a deal!

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 11:35 AM
Change our picks to Everette Brown and Rey Maualuga and you have yourselves a deal!

Ummm....going by their draft....Everette Brown isn't available at 12.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 11:36 AM
I don't see the appeal of Rey. He's physical but gets caught up in the wash quite a bit to be consider elite. Andre Smith is a risk but good value in the 2nd half of round 1.

People swoon over the occasional big hit.

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 11:37 AM
People swoon over the occasional big hit.

See Aaron "Jesus Christ" Curry.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 11:39 AM
Ummm....going by their draft....Everette Brown isn't available at 12.

Oh my bad, I didn't look at it until now and lately people have had Brown ranked low.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 11:39 AM
See Aaron "Jesus Christ" Curry.

See Rey take a bad angle and miss the ball carrier.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 11:40 AM
People swoon over the occasional big hit.

What do you swoon over, the average of one TD a year or the wrap up ability of a late round draft pick?

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 11:49 AM
What do you swoon over, the average of one TD a year or the wrap up ability of a late round draft pick?

Curry is a much better all around LB than Rey. If KC had the 15th pick and were going to immediately switch over to a 3-4 then you consider Rey.

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 11:54 AM
Curry is a much better all around LB than Rey. If KC had the 15th pick and were going to immediately switch over to a 3-4 then you consider Rey.

Rey can play ILB in a 3-4 and MLB in a 4-3.

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 11:56 AM
Curry is a much better all around LB than Rey. If KC had the 15th pick and were going to immediately switch over to a 3-4 then you consider Rey.

If KC had the 10th pick and were going to play a 4-3, then you consider Curry.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:08 PM
Drafting Curry #3 is about like drafting a Kicker in the first round.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:11 PM
If KC had the 10th pick and were going to play a 4-3, then you consider Curry.

It's funny you say that when you admit yourself that if KC stays at 3 you take Curry.

Pestilence
04-07-2009, 12:13 PM
It's funny you say that when you admit yourself that if KC stays at 3 you take Curry.

GD....there is a difference between thinking that we're going to take Curry at #3 and WANTING to take Curry at #3.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:15 PM
GD....there is a difference between thinking that we're going to take Curry at #3 and WANTING to take Curry at #3.

GD - Parker said if forced to pick at 3 he'd take Curry, not that he thinks KC will.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 12:16 PM
It's funny you say that when you admit yourself that if KC stays at 3 you take Curry.

GD - Parker said if forced to pick at 3 he'd take Curry, not that he thinks KC will.

Sure seems like he's advocating picking a QB at 3 to me.



You're right, we do have to pick someone. If you're left picking out of necessity, why not grab the best value you can?

God forbid that we pick what many consider to be an impact player at the greatest position of value on the field.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:17 PM
Sure seems like he's advocating picking a QB at 3 to me.

Maybe he changed his mind in the last week. Last week he said he holds his nose and takes Curry.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 12:19 PM
I'm guessing Parker actually answered one of those classic Chiefnj2 questions like, "You can't take a QB, OT, DE or OLB - and you can't trade down. Who do you take?" and he's going to hold the answer over Parker's head for the foreseeable future.

melbar
04-07-2009, 12:20 PM
Drafting Curry #3 is about like drafting a Kicker in the first round.

Man I hope your kidding...hard to tell lately.

Tribal Warfare
04-07-2009, 12:21 PM
no fuckin way KC selects Tyson Jackson at the #12 spot

melbar
04-07-2009, 12:24 PM
I wouldnt mind Laurinitus at 18.

Chiefnj2
04-07-2009, 12:27 PM
I'm guessing Parker actually answered one of those classic Chiefnj2 questions like, "You can't take a QB, OT, DE or OLB - and you can't trade down. Who do you take?" and he's going to hold the answer over Parker's head for the foreseeable future.

I think the question was KC is staying at 3, Stafford and Smith are off the board, who do you take. I'm sure it's a difficult question for you to understand and process.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:31 PM
Everette Brown mother fuckers! Pioli isn't afraid to reach for stars! In all honestly though, the Patriots never acted like ILB was a big need for them, they always just used old veterans. I don't see why hes going to change his philosophy and try building a team the opposite of what hes done before.

OnTheWarpath58
04-07-2009, 12:38 PM
I think the question was KC is staying at 3, Stafford and Smith are off the board, who do you take. I'm sure it's a difficult question for you to understand and process.

Yeah, terribly difficult.

I'd take Sanchez, Brown or even *gasp* Crabtree at #3 before I took an ILB that high.

RustShack
04-07-2009, 12:42 PM
I just have this feeling Haley takes Crabtree... I think Pioli would be OK with it too since they Patriots have been trying so hard to get receivers...

htismaqe
04-07-2009, 01:07 PM
It's funny you say that when you admit yourself that if KC stays at 3 you take Curry.

I've also said that I'd "hold my nose" when I do it.

Then again, I've also said that I'm so disappointed with the top of this draft that my opinion on the subject is fluid depending on the temperature, humidity, and phase of the moon.

I've OPENLY admitted it all along.

oldandslow
04-07-2009, 01:38 PM
I just have this feeling Haley takes Crabtree... I think Pioli would be OK with it too since they Patriots have been trying so hard to get receivers...

I think so too. I know mecca will be along to tell me Crabtree is Sly Morris after he hurt his knee, but I would much rather go here than Curry...or Monroe.

Bowe and Crabtree might be really good.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:15 AM
I don't see the appeal of Rey. He's physical but gets caught up in the wash quite a bit to be consider elite. Andre Smith is a risk but good value in the 2nd half of round 1.

Because Mauluga plays with an intensity that few others do, and that fire and passion is contagious.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:18 AM
Yeah, terribly difficult.

I'd take Sanchez, Brown or even *gasp* Crabtree at #3 before I took an ILB that high.

Of all the prospective selections at #3 overall, I think I hate the idea of taking Crabtree more than any other.

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 08:20 AM
Of all the prospective selections at #3 overall, I think I hate the idea of taking Crabtree more than any other.

You know I'm not a fan of his, however, the prospect of taking an ILB at #3 for the first time in 20 years isn't exactly an attractive option either.

If we were stuck there, the pick would be QB, Brown or Raji for me.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:25 AM
You know I'm not a fan of his, however, the prospect of taking an ILB at #3 for the first time in 20 years isn't exactly an attractive option either.

If we were stuck there, the pick would be QB, Brown or Raji for me.

If we can't trade down while we're on the clock, I take Sanchez.

As soon as he's taken, other QB hungry teams will start calling.

Chiefnj2
04-08-2009, 08:26 AM
If we can't trade down while we're on the clock, I take Sanchez.

As soon as he's taken, other QB hungry teams will start calling.

Why wouldn't the QB hungry teams call KC before they take him?

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 08:27 AM
If we can't trade down while we're on the clock, I take Sanchez.

As soon as he's taken, other QB hungry teams will start calling.

I agree.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:28 AM
Why wouldn't the QB hungry teams call KC before they take him?

They will be, but there's only ten minutes to make a trade or the selection, so Pioli might have to wait till after the pick to get the best deal.

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 08:30 AM
Why wouldn't the QB hungry teams call KC before they take him?

I'm sure it wouldn't have anything to do with thinking/hoping they could get him 5 slots deeper into the draft.

The only way someone is trading that far pre-draft is if there is a fear that Seattle might take him.

Otherwise, if we take him at 3, let the bidding begin between Denver, Jets, Tampa, etc. for Sanchez if teams are willing to give up that much, or more realistically Cassel, who could be had for a mid-late 1st round pick.

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 08:31 AM
They will be, but there's only ten minutes to make a trade or the selection, so Pioli might have to wait till after the pick to get the best deal.

This also.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:38 AM
This also.

I've thought since last year's draft that the Chiefs would have traded out of the #5 spot if they'd had just a few more minutes to work the phone.

I know most people like the changes made to draft last year, but I don't.

bdeg
04-08-2009, 08:41 AM
I've thought since last year's draft that the Chiefs would have traded out of the #5 spot if they'd had just a few more minutes to work the phone.

I know most people like the changes made to draft last year, but I don't.

I thought NO had their #1, plus this year's #1 on the table. We just really wanted Dorsey.

milkman
04-08-2009, 08:54 AM
I thought NO had their #1, plus this year's #1 on the table. We just really wanted Dorsey.

I thought it was just their first and fifth.

Chiefnj2
04-08-2009, 09:07 AM
They will be, but there's only ten minutes to make a trade or the selection, so Pioli might have to wait till after the pick to get the best deal.

They don't have to wait until draft day to start preliminary talks, do they?

I don't think Pioli gambles with the draft pick in an attempt to flip him. IMO, his value goes down once KC takes him.

Pestilence
04-08-2009, 09:08 AM
I thought NO had their #1, plus this year's #1 on the table. We just really wanted Dorsey.

That was the rumor but I've read other places that say they didn't offer that to us.

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 09:34 AM
I'm sure it wouldn't have anything to do with thinking/hoping they could get him 5 slots deeper into the draft.

The only way someone is trading that far pre-draft is if there is a fear that Seattle might take him.

Otherwise, if we take him at 3, let the bidding begin between Denver, Jets, Tampa, etc. for Sanchez if teams are willing to give up that much, or more realistically Cassel, who could be had for a mid-late 1st round pick.

If we took Sanchez, I would think trading Cassel would be more realistic. At least in terms of getting return on what we paid.

milkman
04-08-2009, 09:46 AM
They don't have to wait until draft day to start preliminary talks, do they?

I don't think Pioli gambles with the draft pick in an attempt to flip him. IMO, his value goes down once KC takes him.

They do, and might be able to work out a deal ahead of time.

As for his value falling after he's picked, I don't think so.
Eli Manning's value didn't seem to take a hit.

What happens if the Chiefs take Sanchez, and the Jags or the 9ers take Freeman.

The Donkeys would be left with Kyle Orton, and the Bucs are desparate for a QB.

One of those teams will ante up.

Hell, I'd take the Bucs 1st, second, and Jeremy Zuttah for Sanchez.

Pestilence
04-08-2009, 09:54 AM
They do, and might be able to work out a deal ahead of time.

As for his value falling after he's picked, I don't think so.
Eli Manning's value didn't seem to take a hit.

What happens if the Chiefs take Sanchez, and the Jags or the 9ers take Freeman.

The Donkeys would be left with Kyle Orton, and the Bucs are desparate for a QB.

One of those teams will ante up.

Hell, I'd take the Bucs 1st, second, and Jeremy Zuttah for Sanchez.

Works for me.

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 09:59 AM
If we took Sanchez, I would think trading Cassel would be more realistic. At least in terms of getting return on what we paid.

That's what I've been saying only to get the response:

"That's stupid, we just traded for him. Why would we trade him?"

I know that if I bought a house last month for $250,000, and this month someone called me and said that they'd give me $325,000 for it, I'd be packing my shit damn fast.

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 10:02 AM
They do, and might be able to work out a deal ahead of time.

As for his value falling after he's picked, I don't think so.
Eli Manning's value didn't seem to take a hit.

What happens if the Chiefs take Sanchez, and the Jags or the 9ers take Freeman.

The Donkeys would be left with Kyle Orton, and the Bucs are desparate for a QB.

One of those teams will ante up.

Hell, I'd take the Bucs 1st, second, and Jeremy Zuttah for Sanchez.

Don't forget, Sanchez' value might go down after we pick him, but Cassel's might go up.

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 10:02 AM
That's what I've been saying only to get the response:

"That's stupid, we just traded for him. Why would we trade him?"

I know that if I bought a house last month for $250,000, and this month someone called me and said that they'd give me $325,000 for it, I'd be packing my shit damn fast.

Exactly.

milkman
04-08-2009, 10:19 AM
Don't forget, Sanchez' value might go down after we pick him, but Cassel's might go up.

Hell, I'd take the Bucs 2nd rounder and Jeremy Zuttah for Cassel.

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 10:24 AM
Hell, I'd take the Bucs 2nd rounder and Jeremy Zuttah for Cassel.

In a nanosecond.

bigbucks24
04-08-2009, 11:12 AM
ROUND ONE

1:00-1:10 1- 1- 1 Detroit Matthew Stafford QB GA
1:10-1:20 1- 2- 2 St. Louis Eugene Monroe OT Virginia
1:20-1:30 1- 3- 3 Philadelphia (from Chiefs) Jason Smith OT Baylor (from list)
1:30-1:40 1- 4- 4 Seattle Micheal Crabtree, WR Texas Tech (via PM)
1:40-1:50 1- 5- 5 Denver (from Cleveland) Aaron Curry, LB Wake Forest
1:50-2:00 1- 6- 6 Green Bay (from Bengals) BJ Raji, DT Boston College
2:00-2:10 1- 7- 7 Oakland Michael Johnson, DE Georgia Tech
2:10-2:20 1- 8- 8 Jacksonville Mark Sanchez, QB, USC
2:20-2:30 1- 9- 9 Cincinatti (from Green Bay) Andre Smith, OT Alabama
2:30-2:40 1-10-10 San Francisco Michael Oher, OT Mississippi
2:40-2:50 1-11-11 Buffalo Brian Orakpo, DE/OLB Texas
2:50-3:00 1-12-12 Cleveland (from broncos) Everette Brown, DE/OLB Florida St.
3:00-3:10 1-13-13 Washington Robert Ayers DE Tennessee*
3:10-3:20 1-14-14 New Orleans Malcom Jenkins, CB, Ohio St.
3:20-3:30 1-15-15 Houston Clay Matthews LB USC
3:30-3:40 1-16-16 San Diego Rey Maualuga, LB, USC
3:40-3:50 1-17-17 New York Jets Jeremy Macklin WR Missouri
3:50-4:00 1-18-18 Denver (from Chicago) Aaron Maybin DE/OLB Penn State
4:00-4:10 1-19-19 Tampa Bay Brian Cushing OLB USC
4:10-4:20 1-20-20 Detroit (from Dallas) William Beatty OT Connecticut
4:20-4:30 1-21-21 Kansas City (from Eagles) Tyson Jackson, DE LSU
4:30-4:40 1-22-22 Minnesota Peria Jerry DT Ole Miss
4:40-4:50 1-23-23 New England Knowshon Moreno RB Georgia
4:50-5:00 1-24-24 Atlanta Brandon Pettigrew TE Oklahoma State (via PM)

* Denotes Commissioner Pick
1:00-1:10 1-25-25 Miami Hakeem Nicks WR North Carolina
1:10-1:20 1-26-26 Baltimore Kenny Britt WR Rutgers
1:20-1:30 1-27-27 Indianapolis Beanie Wells RB Ohio State
1:30-1:40 1-28-28 Seattle (from Kansas City) (from Carolina) (from Philadelphia) Alex Mack C California
1:40-1:50 1-29-29 New York Giants Brian Robiskie WR Ohio State
1:50-2:00 1-30-30 Tennessee Conner Barwin DE Cincinnati
2:00-2:10 1-31-31 Arizona Donald Brown RB Unv of Cincinnati
2:10-2:20 1-32-32 Pittsburgh Eben Britton OT Arizona


ROUND TWO

2:20-2:30 2- 1-33 Detroit Alphonso Smith CB Wake Forest
2:30-2:40 2- 2-34 New England (from Chiefs) Darius Butler CB Un Conn
2:40-2:50 2- 3-35 St. Louis James Laurinaitis LB Ohio State
2:50-3:00 2- 4-36 Cleveland Vontae Davis CB Illinois
3:00-3:10 2- 5-37 Kansas City (from Seattle) Larry English Northern Ill
3:10-3:20 2- 6-38 Cincinnati Eric Wood C Louisville
3:20-3:30 2- 7-39 Jacksonville Percy Harvin WR Florida
3:30-3:40 2- 8-40 Oakland Darrius Heyward-Bey WR Maryland
3:40-3:50 2- 9-41 Green Bay Ron Brace DT Boston College
3:50-4:00 2-10-42 Buffalo Jared Cook TE South Carolina
4:00-4:10 2-11-43 San Francisco Clint Sintim OLB Virginia
4:10-4:20 2-12-44 Miami (from Washington) Sean Smith CB Utah
4:20-4:30 2-13-45 New York Giants (from Saints) William Moore SS Missouri
4:30-4:40 2-14-46 Houston Patrick Chung Safety Oregon
4:40-4:50 2-15-47 New England (from San Diego) Louis Delmas Safety Western Michigan
4:50-5:00 2-16-48 Denver Lesean McCoy RB Pittsburgh*


Monday, April 6, 2009
(Round 2 continued)

6:30-6:40 2-17-49 Chicago Duke Robinson OG Oklahoma
6:40-6:50 2-18-50 Cleveland (from Tampa Bay) Josh Freeman QB Kansas State
6:50-7:00 2-19-51 Atlanta (from Dallas) Evander "Ziggy" Hood - DT Missouri
7:00-7:10 2-20-52 New York Jets Jarron Gilbert DT/DE San Jose State
7:10-7:20 2-21-53 Kansas City (from Eagles) Jonathan Luigs C Arkansas
7:20-7:30 2-22-54 Minnesota Max Unger C/OG/OT Oregon
7:30-7:40 2-23-55 Dallas (from Atlanta) Jamon Meredith OT South Carolina
7:40-7:50 2-24-56 Miami Lawrence Sidbury/DE-OLB/Richmond
7:50-8:00 2-25-57 Baltimore Paul Kruger DE Utah
8:00-8:10 2-26-58 New England Cody Brown, OLB, UConn
8:10-8:20 2-27-59 Kansas City (from Carolina) Phil Loadholt OT Oklahoma
8:20-8:30 2-28-60 New York Giants Ramses Barden WR Cal Poly
8:30-8:40 2-29-61 Indianapolis Jarius Byrd, CB, Oregon
8:40-8:50 2-30-62 Tennessee D.J. Moore CB Vanderbilt
8:50-9:00 2-31-63 Arizona Sen'Derrick Marks DT Auburn
9:00-9:10 2-32-64 Pittsburgh Fili Moala DT USC


Tuesday, April 7, 2009

ROUND THREE

6:30-6:40 3- 1-65 San Francisco (from Detroit) Rashad Jennings RB Liberty
6:40-6:50 3- 2-66 St. Louis Juaquin Iglesias WR Oklahoma
6:50-7:00 3- 3-67 Carolina (from Kansas City) Jasper Brinkley LB S. Carolina
7:00-7:10 3- 4-68 Kansas City (from Seattle) Shonn Greene RB Iowa
7:10-7:20 3- 5-69 Dallas (from Cleveland) Marcus Freeman LB Ohio State
7:20-7:30 3- 6-70 Cincinnati Victor Harris CB Virginia Tech
7:30-7:40 3- 7-71 Oakland James Casey TE Rice
7:40-7:50 3- 8-72 Jacksonville Mike Thomas WR Arizona
7:50-8:00 3- 9-73 Green Bay Andy Levitre G Oregon State
8:00-8:10 3-10-74 Detroit (from San Francisco) Chase Coffman TE Missouri
8:10-8:20 3-11-75 Buffalo Tyrone McKenzie LB South Florida
8:20-8:30 3-12-76 New York Jets (from Saints) Andre Brown RB N. C. State
8:30-8:40 3-13-77 Houston Asher Allen CB Georgia
8:40-8:50 3-14-78 San Diego Chip Vaughn S Wake Forest
8:50-9:00 3-15-79 Cleveland (from broncos) Rashad Johnson S Alabama
9:00-9:10 3-16-80 Washington Darry Beckwith LB L. S. U.
9:10-9:20 3-17-81 Tampa Bay Louis Murphy WR Florida
9:20-9:30 3-18-82 Detroit (from Dallas) Scott McKillop LB Pittsburgh


Wednesday, April 8, 2009
(Round 3 continued)

6:30-6:40 3-19-83 Green Bay (from Jets) Nader Abdallah DT Ohio State
6:40-6:50 3-20-84 Denver (from Chicago)
6:50-7:00 3-21-85 Carolina (from Kansas City) (from Philadelphia)
7:00-7:10 3-22-86 Minnesota
7:10-7:20 3-23-87 Miami
7:20-7:30 3-24-88 Baltimore
7:30-7:40 3-25-89 New England
7:40-7:50 3-26-90 Atlanta
7:50-8:00 3-27-91 New York Giants
8:00-8:10 3-28-92 Indianapolis
8:10-8:20 3-29-93 Seattle (from Kansas City) (from Carolina)
8:20-8:30 3-30-94 Tennessee
8:30-8:40 3-31-95 Arizona
8:40-8:50 3-32-96 Pittsburgh
8:50-9:00 3-33-97 New England Compensatory Selection
9:00-9:10 3-34-98 Cincinnati Compensatory Selection
9:10-9:20 3-35-99 Chicago Compensatory Selection
9:20-9:30 3-36-100 New York Giants Compensatory Selection

This looks like it went on for awhile. Looks like there was another trade. What are your thoughts on this return so far?

4:20-4:30 1-21-21 Kansas City (from Eagles) Tyson Jackson, DE LSU
3:00-3:10 2- 5-37 Kansas City (from Seattle) Larry English Northern Ill
7:10-7:20 2-21-53 Kansas City (from Eagles) Jonathan Luigs C Arkansas
8:10-8:20 2-27-59 Kansas City (from Carolina) Phil Loadholt OT Oklahoma
7:00-7:10 3- 4-68 Kansas City (from Seattle) Shonn Greene RB Iowa

Pestilence
04-08-2009, 11:21 AM
That mock draft sucks........

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 12:27 PM
4:20-4:30 1-21-21 Kansas City (from Eagles) Tyson Jackson, DE LSU
3:00-3:10 2- 5-37 Kansas City (from Seattle) Larry English Northern Ill
7:10-7:20 2-21-53 Kansas City (from Eagles) Jonathan Luigs C Arkansas
8:10-8:20 2-27-59 Kansas City (from Carolina) Phil Loadholt OT Oklahoma
7:00-7:10 3- 4-68 Kansas City (from Seattle) Shonn Greene RB Iowa

Shonn Greene is an excellent pick at 68. English isn't bad at 37. Not a big fan of any of the other picks.

milkman
04-08-2009, 12:58 PM
I wouldn't draft Phil Loadholt if he were the last OT left on the board and OT was the final piece of the SB puzzle.

Blick
04-08-2009, 02:15 PM
It's not bad, except I would've taken Sintim over English.

bigbucks24
04-08-2009, 02:16 PM
I wouldn't draft Phil Loadholt if he were the last OT left on the board and OT was the final piece of the SB puzzle.

Why? Would like your thoughts.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 03:54 PM
Not to be rude, but I can't imagine a worse situation for the Chiefs. We waste a #3 to get the second coming of Kawika Mitchell and Renaldo Nehemiah? Yeesh....

Anyone who's ever watched Maualuga and thinks that he is anything like Mitchell is a tard.

Mitchell was/is an athletic guy who isn't that great of a football player that transferred to South Florida so he could play...

Rey Maualuga is a 3 year starter at one of the best college programs around that is an outstanding player that is being downgraded due to his athletic testing...

They are nothing alike at all.

milkman
04-08-2009, 06:05 PM
Why? Would like your thoughts.

He's just a plodder.

Saccopoo
04-08-2009, 06:14 PM
He's just a plodder.

Wow.

That's just some fuckin' great insight there.

I wouldn't draft him if he was the last OT on the planet and my team needed an offensive tackle because....*wait for it!*....he's a plodder.

That's fucking great!

milkman
04-08-2009, 06:25 PM
Wow.

That's just some ****in' great insight there.

I wouldn't draft him if he was the last OT on the planet and my team needed an offensive tackle because....*wait for it!*....he's a plodder.

That's ****ing great!

I think most will figure out that I mean that he has slow feet and can't succesfully contend with speed rushers on the edge.

He is simply big and slow and lacks the athleticism and fluid feet that you need in the NFL at OT, even for the right side.

He makes Jordan Black look like a star quality LT by comparison.

But I spelled it out for you because you are intellectually challenged.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 06:46 PM
He is simply big and slow and lacks the athleticism and fluid feet that you need in the NFL at OT, even for the right side.

FAIL.

If you really believe this... you either don't actually watch enough college football or you are so against the player that you have created a self-induced dellusion.

Loadholt is not the quickest guy but he should make a pretty damn good if not PROBOWL caliber RT on the right team. If he makes it to the very low 2nd or top of the 3rd I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 07:03 PM
FAIL.

If you really believe this... you either don't actually watch enough college football or you are so against the player that you have created a self-induced dellusion.

Loadholt is not the quickest guy but he should make a pretty damn good if not PROBOWL caliber RT on the right team. If he makes it to the very low 2nd or top of the 3rd I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

No freaking way, dude.

Loadholt should drop the "holt" off the end of his name, because that's all he is - a LOAD. He's not an NFL-caliber tackle on either side unless somebody gets ahold of him and lights a fire under his fat ass.

milkman
04-08-2009, 07:15 PM
FAIL.

If you really believe this... you either don't actually watch enough college football or you are so against the player that you have created a self-induced dellusion.

Loadholt is not the quickest guy but he should make a pretty damn good if not PROBOWL caliber RT on the right team. If he makes it to the very low 2nd or top of the 3rd I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

I watch enough college ball that I was calling Branden Albert a LT prospect last year before anyone, and took a lot of shit for it.

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2009, 07:27 PM
Loadholt will struggle in the NFL. Orakpo and Dunlap proved that.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 07:28 PM
No freaking way, dude.

Loadholt should drop the "holt" off the end of his name, because that's all he is - a LOAD. He's not an NFL-caliber tackle on either side unless somebody gets ahold of him and lights a fire under his fat ass.

#1 even based on his performance this year and at the senior bowl... that is wrong...
#2 he has worked a TON on his footwork since then and has improved significantly.
#3 he isn't really FAT, he is just HUGE.. the dude is damn athletic for someone at 6'8" ... 330lbs isn't obese at that height.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 07:28 PM
FAIL.

If you really believe this... you either don't actually watch enough college football or you are so against the player that you have created a self-induced dellusion.

Loadholt is not the quickest guy but he should make a pretty damn good if not PROBOWL caliber RT on the right team. If he makes it to the very low 2nd or top of the 3rd I wouldn't hesitate to take him.

Yeah, and Jake Long was a great pick at #1, and we should spend a mid-rounder on that douchebag from Michigan with 50 career tackles who put up a good bench # at his pro day even though he wasn't even a combine invite despite playing at a major school.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 07:30 PM
I watch enough college ball that I was calling Branden Albert a LT prospect last year before anyone, and took a lot of shit for it.

ok fair enough. Maybe just Oklahomo football. I hate the Sooners but watched most of their games over the last few years ... and mark my words, he will be an excellent RIGHT tackle somewhere... unless some team is stupid and tries to plug him in at LT in a pass happy offense.

I honestly think he could be "servicable" at LT if you are a run crazy team... but I wouldn't draft him to take the risk...

OnTheWarpath58
04-08-2009, 07:36 PM
Wow.

That's just some fuckin' great insight there.

I wouldn't draft him if he was the last OT on the planet and my team needed an offensive tackle because....*wait for it!*....he's a plodder.

That's fucking great!

Says the guy that thinks ILB is as important a position as DE, OLB or DT.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 07:38 PM
Yeah, and Jake Long was a great pick at #1, and we should spend a mid-rounder on that douchebag from Michigan with 50 career tackles who put up a good bench # at his pro day even though he wasn't even a combine invite despite playing at a major school.

If you'll remember I argued that Long would be great to get at #5 (our pick) and I was dead right. DESPITE, many on here claiming he could only play RT... and of course, looking back I think he IS a great pick at #1... but again, that was never the original argument...

..and now I get to be PROJECTED to be wrong on someone I thought we should spend a FOURTH round pick on...

Why don't you start by proving me WRONG first.. then project me to be wrong...

Just because Mecca (and I am assuming you) still can't admit you were wrong on Jake Long, doesn't mean you can "bully" me into thinking I don't know what I SEE.

Fact is, THE REST OF THE FUCKING NFL knows Jake Long is a good LT and will only get better... deal with it.

Man up. admit being wrong and quit acting like GoChiefs

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 07:48 PM
Yeah, and Jake Long was a great pick at #1, and we should spend a mid-rounder on that douchebag from Michigan with 50 career tackles who put up a good bench # at his pro day even though he wasn't even a combine invite despite playing at a major school.

Just to drive my point home..

Here are the predictions I can remember from last year before the draft....

I stated that Henne wouldn't make it to the 3rd round, I said Long was NOT a RT but a legit LT .. worth the #5 pick.

I said something about Flacco... who I really liked, but I think by then his stock was already rising and that was a no brainer...

So far my record is a helluva lot better than most...

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 07:56 PM
Wow, Kyle breaks out of his shell!

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 08:29 PM
Yeah, and Jake Long was a great pick at #1, and we should spend a mid-rounder on that douchebag from Michigan with 50 career tackles who put up a good bench # at his pro day even though he wasn't even a combine invite despite playing at a major school.


And.. let's look at the only other opinion I can find that I posted before last years draft...

If Dorsey falls to us, I want another 2nd rounder and a move back...

Now I HOPE I am wrong and he turns into a beast... but looking back... would you take a trade DOWN instead of Dorsey now?

So, no to be overly confident... but take your smug attitude toward my "crazy" opinions elsewhere...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 09:14 PM
If you'll remember I argued that Long would be great to get at #5 (our pick) and I was dead right. DESPITE, many on here claiming he could only play RT... and of course, looking back I think he IS a great pick at #1... but again, that was never the original argument...

..and now I get to be PROJECTED to be wrong on someone I thought we should spend a FOURTH round pick on...

Why don't you start by proving me WRONG first.. then project me to be wrong...

Just because Mecca (and I am assuming you) still can't admit you were wrong on Jake Long, doesn't mean you can "bully" me into thinking I don't know what I SEE.

Fact is, THE REST OF THE FUCKING NFL knows Jake Long is a good LT and will only get better... deal with it.

Man up. admit being wrong and quit acting like GoChiefs

Good LT's don't need running backs and tight ends to help them out. Jake Long will never be more than a slightly above average LT who gets pwned by speed rushers.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 09:15 PM
And.. let's look at the only other opinion I can find that I posted before last years draft...



Now I HOPE I am wrong and he turns into a beast... but looking back... would you take a trade DOWN instead of Dorsey now?

So, no to be overly confident... but take your smug attitude toward my "crazy" opinions elsewhere...

Glenn Dorsey isn't any less talented than he was last year. It's not his fault that we had a stupid coaching staff playing him out of position.

But let's remove Dorsey from the equation. If you had the option of Long, Albert, or Clady at 5, knowing what you know now, only a moron would take Jake Long.

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2009, 09:17 PM
But let's remove Dorsey from the equation. If you had the option of Long, Albert, or Clady at 5, knowing what you know now, only a moron would take Jake Long.

Or a Michigan homer. :p

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 09:18 PM
And.. let's look at the only other opinion I can find that I posted before last years draft...



Now I HOPE I am wrong and he turns into a beast... but looking back... would you take a trade DOWN instead of Dorsey now?

So, no to be overly confident... but take your smug attitude toward my "crazy" opinions elsewhere...

...

Bradford isn't even the THIRD best QB in the big 12...

Daniel, Harrell and McCoy are all better QBs

chiefs1111
04-08-2009, 09:19 PM
Glenn Dorsey isn't any less talented than he was last year. It's not his fault that we had a stupid coaching staff playing him out of position.

But let's remove Dorsey from the equation. If you had the option of Long, Albert, or Clady at 5, knowing what you know now, only a moron would take Jake Long.

Im very happy we got Albert, I think he will be a great LT for years to come. Which is why ill never understand why people keep saying to take one at #3 and move Albert to RT. It just doesn't make any sense too me at all.

htismaqe
04-08-2009, 09:20 PM
Im very happy we got Albert, I think he will be a great LT for years to come. Which is why ill never understand why people keep saying to take one at #3 and move Albert to RT. It just doesn't make any sense too me at all.

Or worse, move him to guard. :Lin:

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 09:26 PM
Glenn Dorsey isn't any less talented than he was last year. It's not his fault that we had a stupid coaching staff playing him out of position.

I hope you are right... but so far I think MOST people would agree that he hasn't shown us anything worth the #5 pick...


But let's remove Dorsey from the equation. If you had the option of Long, Albert, or Clady at 5, knowing what you know now, only a moron would take Jake Long.

No I would still take Long if I HAD to take one of the three (hint: so would ANY currently employed NFL GM), but otherwise KNOWING what I know now, I would trade down and take Albert.


Good LT's don't need running backs and tight ends to help them out. Jake Long will never be more than a slightly above average LT who gets pwned by speed rushers.

I love how you make this stuff up...

#1 every LT gets help on occasion... LONG didn't get an inordinate amount.. and the BURDEN OF PROOF for your inane statement rests on you... show me a factual account of all his plays and compare him against other LTs and how much help was given as a percentage based on type of play (run or pass) Otherwise, it seems you are making this up to support a previously failed argument.

#2 How many MORE ProBowls does Long need to go to before you admit being wrong?

#3 How is it that you and Mecca know so much more than the rest of the people WORKING in the NFL right now? Bill Parcells seems to think he is a worthy LT, so would damn near any GM asked about him.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 09:33 PM
...
Originally Posted by AustinChief http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/images/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=5088555#post5088555)
Bradford isn't even the THIRD best QB in the big 12...

Daniel, Harrell and McCoy are all better QBs


Um, yay, I guess you got me... in a discussion that was not really a draft predictions thread.. but one that turned into a bunch of guys pimping Bradford... (nice try)

Yes my statement was a bit over the top... but it was simply meant to say Bradford sucks... which I firmly believe. I also didn't make any statement regarding ANY of those QBs as NFL caliber I reserve the right to reevaluate all of them after another YEAR in school...

Oh and that was from this last October...

Can you give me one DRAFT comment from LAST year? Seems I was right on Henne, Long, Flacco and Dorsey...

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 09:43 PM
Can you give me one DRAFT comment from LAST year? Seems I was right on Henne, Long, Flacco and Dorsey...

It is gonna be hard... because unlike quite a few people here.. I try to only talk shite about things I KNOW....

I honestly can't remember any other tangible comments from before the 08 draft... except those....

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 09:46 PM
Or worse, move him to guard. :Lin:

No, I think moving him to RT is far worse... he would be an amazing LG... probably a waste since he is a solid LT already.

The only way I don't bitch and moan is if we couldn't trade down no matter what... and we took Monroe and paired them next to each other again... I wouldn't be happy but I could see the logic of having two guys with their chemistry together for the next 10 years on that side of the line.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:16 PM
I hope you are right... but so far I think MOST people would agree that he hasn't shown us anything worth the #5 pick...



No I would still take Long if I HAD to take one of the three (hint: so would ANY currently employed NFL GM), but otherwise KNOWING what I know now, I would trade down and take Albert.



I love how you make this stuff up...

#1 every LT gets help on occasion... LONG didn't get an inordinate amount.. and the BURDEN OF PROOF for your inane statement rests on you... show me a factual account of all his plays and compare him against other LTs and how much help was given as a percentage based on type of play (run or pass) Otherwise, it seems you are making this up to support a previously failed argument.

#2 How many MORE ProBowls does Long need to go to before you admit being wrong?

#3 How is it that you and Mecca know so much more than the rest of the people WORKING in the NFL right now? Bill Parcells seems to think he is a worthy LT, so would damn near any GM asked about him.

#1) The only LTs who get help are LTs who can't handle the guy in front of them. I don't recall a prime Walter Jones, Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Jonathon Ogden, Anthony Munoz, or Erik Williams needing help. (If an LT goes #1, he better be like those guys).

#2) I'd say 4 more, so that he proves he's as good as the currently unemployed 5 time Pro Bowler Roy Williams, since Pro Bowls are obvious measures of merit.

#3) I guess I missed the meeting where appealing to authority is now not a logical fallacy and that we shouldn't have opinions about decisions that GM's make. Bill Parcells also thought that Marcus Spears and Bobby Carpenter were worth 1st rounders and he traded down to pass on Stephen Jackson so that he could have Julius Jones, so he's obviously a genious, given that he has <del>15, 10, 5, 3, 2, 1<del> 0 playoff wins without Bill Belichick.</del></del>

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:24 PM
It is gonna be hard... because unlike quite a few people here.. I try to only talk shite about things I KNOW....

I honestly can't remember any other tangible comments from before the 08 draft... except those....

Like saying that Texas had more NFL talent than USC? And claiming that Rod Wright (7th rounder) and Jonathan Scott (5th rounder) were 1st round talents?

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2944871&highlight=Reggie#post2944871

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 10:25 PM
#1) The only LTs who get help are LTs who can't handle the guy in front of them. I don't recall a prime Walter Jones, Willie Roaf, Orlando Pace, Jonathon Ogden, Anthony Munoz, or Erik Williams needing help. (If an LT goes #1, he better be like those guys).

#2) I'd say 4 more, so that he proves he's as good as the currently unemployed 5 time Pro Bowler Roy Williams, since Pro Bowls are obvious measures of merit.

#3) I guess I missed the meeting where appealing to authority is now not a logical fallacy and that we shouldn't have opinions about decisions that GM's make. Bill Parcells also thought that Marcus Spears and Bobby Carpenter were worth 1st rounders and he traded down to pass on Stephen Jackson so that he could have Julius Jones, so he's obviously a genious, given that he has <DEL>15, 10, 5, 3, 2, 1<DEL> 0 playoff wins without Bill Belichick.</DEL></DEL>

#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:30 PM
#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

#1) Hog shit. This has been discussed over and over again. Long had help on numerous occasions last year. One example was the Rams-Dolphins game, in which the Dolphins had to stay in max protect almost the entire game and give him help on the left side because Chris Long was whipping him like a government mule. Another were initial reports from training camp, where sources reported that he was having a great deal of trouble with speed rushers.

#2) Any Chiefs fan should know that Pro Bowls are far more about name recognition than skill. Look at Brian Waters the last 3 years without Roaf. He's a mediocre guard, and yet he's made several trips to Hawaii. Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys is why he made the Pro Bowl. If Roy Williams played for the Bucs, no one would know him. He's the fucking Jason Sehorn of safeties.

#3) Saying that you would make a different decision does not equate to saying that you automatically know more about every situation and decision. I know that helps with your slippery slope fallacy, but it doesn't square with reality.

Ebolapox
04-08-2009, 10:34 PM
#1 unqualified statement with no factual data behind it. Give me some facts to back that up.

#2 ProBowls are a pretty good judge of a players performance THAT year... things can change. So if he gets 5 PBs, you MAY admit it then?

#3 No I didn't appeal to authority I just pointed out that you act as if you know more, which is fine... but why then, don't I know just as much?
Parker and I disagree on this topic but guess what... he isn't a smug condescending arse about it. So far my track record on predictions is kicking yours to hell... Basically, it isn't that by disagreeing with Parcells you are wrong... it is just funny that you act that people who disagree with YOU have no clue what they are saying...


AND FINALLY... you have yet to produce a post of mine from last years draft that didn't prove true. Still waiting on that (my memory may have failed me here, but I think I have covered all that I said)

1) almost impossible to get data on offensive linemen though. do you seriously ever remember the cornerstone LTs getting consistent help (aside from the occaisonal chip against the pro bowl passrushers)?

2) eh, it really depends. the pro bowl is also pretty much a popularity contest. do you really think there weren't more qualified guards than brian waters? do you think roy williams (safety) would have made those pro bowls if he wasn't a cowboy? do you think it's any wonder the best teams in the league have more secondary guys who don't put up great stats going to the pro bowl? more exposure, the teams tend to be more popular, etc. there are a LOT of guys who get in the year after a great year, even if their current work wasn't great. hell, a lot of cornerbacks make the pro-bowl despite unimpressive stats (when qbs don't throw their way a lot). reputation will get you a long way in the nfl sometimes.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:36 PM
This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm (http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/05.bios/scott_jonathan.htm)

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2780830#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 10:37 PM
Like saying that Texas had more NFL talent than USC? And claiming that Rod Wright (7th rounder) and Jonathan Scott (5th rounder) were 1st round talents?

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2944871&highlight=Reggie#post2944871

Jesus dude, you are reaching... that is from just after the 2005 season... can you go any further back?

And again, that was an out of context post, it wasn't a serious draft discusion .. it was another bashing thread where I was expressing my hate for a USC team that WAS just beaten by Texas.

I made that comment in JANUARY before the combine, simply based on what I had seen that season... and I will admit being wrong there..

AND in the end I was wrong by reaching with the last two from both teams... it was 2 1st rounders not 4 from each team.

ok, besides another out of context not serious DRAFT analysis post from 3 YEARS ago... got something for me?

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 10:42 PM
This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm (http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/05.bios/scott_jonathan.htm)

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2780830#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

NO, again you are reaching back to pre-combine threads.. if you find me one statement post combine endorsing them.. I will give your argument validity... but so far these were comments that go back before the serious draft talk starts

I will admit I was wrong by saying I only talk about what I know.. that was more just shit talking... BUT I will say that when it gets closer to the draft and most of the data is in... I rarely talk about any players that I am not damn confident in. and so far that has panned out pretty well.

doomy3
04-08-2009, 10:44 PM
This is who you wanted us to draft with a 1st rounder in 2006:

And this is who I would draft ...

Jonathan Scott
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.c...t_jonathan.htm (http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/pages/05.bios/scott_jonathan.htm)

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?p=2780830#post2780830

In the 2007 draft, you wanted us to trade up for Amobi Okoye:

I would LOVE to get him for two simple reasons... he is SMART and he has a WORK ETHIC...

I would be perfectly happy seeing us trade up for him. I think the ONE glaring weakness for next year is DT.. the rest of the D is set for at least one more year.

http://chiefsplanet.com/BB/showthread.php?t=155675

I would also like to add that I have been wrong and will be wrong in the future. I'm only pointing this out because of your statement that you only talk about things that you know about and that you know your shit.

Funny, because Levi Brown was your "dream scenario pick" followed by Ginn, Okoye, Tank Tyler, and Pittcock.

Realistically: Levi Brown.

I'd be fine with Ginn, Okoye, Tyler, maybe Pittcock.

I'm also going to pay close attention to Doug Free of NIU in round 2. It would be nice to draft bookend tackles who could be here for a f'ing decade.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 10:46 PM
#1) Hog shit. This has been discussed over and over again. Long had help on numerous occasions last year. One example was the Rams-Dolphins game, in which the Dolphins had to stay in max protect almost the entire game and give him help on the left side because Chris Long was whipping him like a government mule. Another were initial reports from training camp, where sources reported that he was having a great deal of trouble with speed rushers.

#2) Any Chiefs fan should know that Pro Bowls are far more about name recognition than skill. Look at Brian Waters the last 3 years without Roaf. He's a mediocre guard, and yet he's made several trips to Hawaii. Roy Williams playing for the Cowboys is why he made the Pro Bowl. If Roy Williams played for the Bucs, no one would know him. He's the fucking Jason Sehorn of safeties.

#3) Saying that you would make a different decision does not equate to saying that you automatically know more about every situation and decision. I know that helps with your slippery slope fallacy, but it doesn't square with reality.

#1 Statement without facts = opinion.. I am fine with you having your opinions but you treat them as fact and that doesn't work unless you produce data. Not just your assertions.

#2 I actually agree that name recognition plays FAR to big of a role. BUT you don't get to the probowl if you are an incompent LT that can only play RT (maybe) in the NFL... that was what I was told...

#3 I seriously botched the wording on most of this argument.. it is more about your attitude towards people that don't agree... as if they have NO knowledge base worth acknowledging. My bad, I made that about as clear as mud.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:47 PM
Funny, because Levi Brown was your "dream scenario pick" followed by Ginn, Okoye, Tank Tyler, and Pittcock.

Yeah, and we picked at 20 that year, and he went 5. All things being equal, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than a RT, Ted Ginn, or Okoye at 20. Trading up for them? Not so much.

Furthermore, I'd also like to add that I was far less educated about the draft back then. I'd say the 2006 version of me would probably be far more in line with the Curry praisers and would be high 1st round QB averse. I have no problem admitting the error of my ways. Wasn't my first, won't be my last.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:48 PM
NO, again you are reaching back to pre-combine threads.. if you find me one statement post combine endorsing them.. I will give your argument validity... but so far these were comments that go back before the serious draft talk start

I will admit I was wrong by saying I only talk about what I know.. that was more just shit talking... BUT I will say that when it gets closer to the draft and most of the data is in... I rarely talk about any players that I am not damn confident in. and so far that has panned out pretty well.

Pittsburgh gets the biggest STEAL of this draft. Mendenhall is amazing. I think he will end up the best RB of this entire draft. Mark it down.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 10:48 PM
Yeah, and we picked at 20 that year, and he went 5. All things being equal, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than a RT, Ted Ginn, or Okoye at 20. Trading up for them? Not so much.

Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

ChiefsCountry
04-08-2009, 10:50 PM
Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

Bowe?

doomy3
04-08-2009, 10:51 PM
Pretty much any of them would be better than what we ended up with....

All those guys would be better than Bowe? OK, Mecca.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
#1 Statement without facts = opinion.. I am fine with you having your opinions but you treat them as fact and that doesn't work unless you produce data. Not just your assertions.

I provided data for you. If you want more, I suggest you go to ten yard torrents and download the Rams-Dolphins game.

Or, you could go here:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/02/every-play-counts-jake-long-vs-chris-long/

I'm scoring the Long vs. Long match-up like a fight: Each Dolphins offensive drive is a round, and I'll score using the 10-point must system. I've done this before with Dwight Freeney taking on Jonathan Ogden in 2004 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/every-play-counts/2004/every-play-counts-ogden-vs-freeney) and again in 2005 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/every-play-counts/2005/every-play-counts-ogden-freeney-ii).

Drive 1
With Chris Long lined up to the outside of Jake Long and ready for a speed rush, Jake was called for a false start before the Dolphins' first offensive play. When the Dolphins finally got to run a play, Chris tried to rush to the outside of Jake and never got close to making the tackle as Jake pushed him aside. The Dolphins didn't think Chris was fast enough to make tackles from the backside; when a Ronnie Brown run went around the right end, Jake didn't even bother blocking Chris and Chris was not, in fact, fast enough to track Brown down.

<iframe src="http://webcenter.polls.aol.com/modular.jsp?template=1386&view=157333&pollId=157613&channel=aol_us_sports&popup=yes" width="210" align="right" frameborder="0" height="255"></iframe> On Chad Pennington's second pass of the game, Chris absolutely dominated Jake. Chris started with an outside speed rush, but when Jake got into good position to stop him, Chris simply grabbed Jake by the shoulder pads, threw him to the ground, and then grabbed Pennington and slammed him to the ground. Pennington (barely) got the pass off, but it was incomplete, and Chris made him pay the price for it. The next time Pennington passed, Jake got help blocking Chris from guard Andy Alleman.

Overall, from the false start to the hit on Pennington, Chris Long absolutely dominated this round.

Score: Chris, 10-7.

Drive 2
Dolphins running back Lousaka Polite got the handoff on the first play of the drive, and Jake opened up a big hole by pushing Chris to the outside. When Pennington dropped back to pass, Jake got a little bit of help on a chip block from tight end Anthony Fasano, but even without Fasano's help, Jake appeared to have Chris under control. On Pennington's next pass Chris tried to spin to the inside and Jake held him in check, and then Chris tried another outside move on the pass after that, and Jake stoned him again.

Chris made a nice play on a handoff to Ronnie Brown, getting off Jake's initial block and taking Brown down after a gain of seven yards. (That play came back because Dolphins offensive lineman Vernon Carey was called for facemasking.) After that, Chris spent a few plays on the sideline. But for the most part, when they went one-on-one, Jake got the better of the battle.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 3
A three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 4
The first play was a strange one: Chris came with an outside rush and beat, Jake, forcing Pennington to step up in the pocket. When Pennington did step up in the pocket, he saw that there was nothing but green turf in front of him, so he scampered 16 yards before stepping out of bounds. It was a heads-up play for Pennington and a good play for the Dolphins, but what we're interested in here is the individual battle, and Chris clearly won that play.

On a handoff to Ricky Williams later in the drive, Jake drove Chris back a few yards but then just stopped blocking before the play was over. Both Jake and Chris looked to me like they gave up on a few plays before the whistle blew, which is the type of thing you can get away with when you're in college and you're a lot better than everyone else, but that you can't get away with if you want to be a great NFL player.

After a holding penalty, the Dolphins faced first-and-20 with 49 seconds left before halftime. Chris rushed to the outside and Jake got in his way at first, doing a pretty good job of maintaining the proper position. But as Pennington tried to buy time in the pocket, Chris finally got Jake off balance, knocked him down, and hit Pennington just as Pennington delivered his pass, a seven-yard completion to Fasano. Jake held his pass block for, by my stopwatch, 4.0 seconds -- long enough that on most plays, Chris wouldn't have gotten to Pennington. But the bottom line is that Pennington took a shot to the ribs. That means Jake didn't hold his block long enough.

Score: Chris, 10-8.

Drive 5
On the first play of the second half, Jake was matched up with Chris on a Pennington pass, and both Williams and Alleman came over to help him. Is this a sign that the Dolphins made a halftime adjustment, thinking Jake couldn't handle Chris and they'd need to give him help?

Probably not, because on Pennington's next pass, it was Jake vs. Chris, one-on-one again. Chris got good pressure on Pennington, as did Rams defensive lineman James Hall, and they both hit Pennington as he passed, forcing an incompletion and a three-and-out.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 6
Jake was one-on-one with Chris again on Pennington's next pass, and although he looked a little clumsy -- losing his balance and going to the ground -- he held up long enough that Pennington had time to throw a beautiful pass along the right sideline for a 37-yard completion to Davone Bess.

On the next two plays, runs by Ronnie Brown, Jake blocked Chris effectively, and when Pennington passed again, Jake held him in check without needing any help. It was a good series for Jake, and it culminated in a Dolphins field goal.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 7
The Dolphins ran just two plays on this drive, fumbling both times. On the first play, Pennington bobbled the snap, picked it up, tried to run to his left, and was tackled by Chris, who used quick footwork to get by Jake.

On the second play, Pennington pitched the ball to Brown, who passed it to tight end David Martin, who fumbled. Rams linebacker Quinton Culberson picked it up and tried to run, but Jake hustled downfield and tackled him. That was a great, heads-up play by Jake, although hustling downfield to make tackles after fumbles isn't really the first thing you look for in an offensive tackle. Overall, thanks to the tackle on Pennington, I have to give this
round to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 8
Again, a three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 9
Not much action between the two here, either, but when they did go one-on-one, on a Pennington deep pass, Jake held Chris at bay, so we'll give it to Jake.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 10
The Dolphins' final drive of the game was a long one, on which Miami controlled the ball, held onto its lead and forced St. Louis to use all three timeouts. Jake showed off some good run blocking, but he and Alleman both flinched on a third down (perhaps anticipating a speed rush from Chris, who was lined up on Jake's outside shoulder), giving the Dolphins a costly false start penalty. That's enough to give the final round of this fight to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Final score: Chris Long beats Jake Long by score of 97-92.

No, Chris Long didn't record a sack, and yes, he got just one tackle. But he hit Pennington three times and generally looked like a much better pass rusher than Jake Long is a pass blocker. Jake was fine in run blocking, but he still has work to do as a pass blocker, and overall, Chris Long won this battle of highly drafted rookies.

Mecca
04-08-2009, 10:56 PM
Oh wait I thought that was the Hali year nevermind.

Remind me not to post when I just sit down in front of the computer.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 10:58 PM
Pittsburgh gets the biggest STEAL of this draft. Mendenhall is amazing. I think he will end up the best RB of this entire draft. Mark it down.

And again not a predraft prediction... but I will roll with this one...

Barring injury I think he would have come on strong... and still do.

I will fully admit that right now Johnson and Stewart look better (I still think McFadden and Jones are crap) but damn dude, give Mendenhall more than ONE start before you judge him...

IF he sucks next year OR gets injured right away again... I will concede THIS one.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 10:59 PM
And again not a predraft prediction... but I will roll with this one..

LAWL...and I'm reaching?

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 11:00 PM
Pittsburgh gets the biggest STEAL of this draft. Mendenhall is amazing. I think he will end up the best RB of this entire draft. Mark it down.
Mark it down?

Wow you are an arrogant little prick...

ok, "marked"... Mendenhall had HALF a start last year before injury... I am gonna reserve judgement... or are you CERTAIN he sucks because he got injured?

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 11:02 PM
Mark it down?

Wow you are an arrogant little prick...

ok, "marked"... Mendenhall had HALF a start last year before injury... I am gonna reserve judgement... or are you CERTAIN he sucks because he got injured?

You were the one who posted it, not me. You said you were right on about all your predictions. You weren't.

I'm sorry if posting things like the Long-Long breakdown has your maize and blue panties in a bunch.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 11:03 PM
I provided data for you. If you want more, I suggest you go to ten yard torrents and download the Rams-Dolphins game.

Or, you could go here:

http://nfl.fanhouse.com/2008/12/02/every-play-counts-jake-long-vs-chris-long/

NO, DATA would show that Long.. compared to other LTs last year had an inordinate amount of help. You have attempted to show ONE side through anectdotal "evidence"...

Not much math, science or debate in your life?

BTW, your assurtion may entirely be correct... but you spouting off about it sure as hell doesn't proove me wrong .. proof requires more than arrogance and a louder voice.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 11:06 PM
You were the one who posted it, not me. You said you were right on about all your predictions. You weren't.

I'm sorry if posting things like the Long-Long breakdown has your maize and blue panties in a bunch.

HOW am I wrong on Mendenhall.. HE WAS INJURED... if he continues to be injured.. I was wrong... fair enough?

BUT IT DIDN'T say... Mandenhall will have a better rookie season.. it said he is a steal and I "think" he will be the best of the whole lot...

NOT a draft prediction... but a post draft "wow" that guy was a steal that late and a wishy "I THINK" comment... an "I THINK" comment I stand behind and will wait to see when he gets more than 1/2 a start..

Do you seriously judge him to be worse because he had one injury?

I will say this... if he sucks next year... then you have me here... not exactly the confines of the debate... but the fact is, I did watch a ton of film on him and had the discussion occured before the draft I would have said the same thing...a "steal that late and in my opinion the best back coming out"

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 11:11 PM
NO, DATA would show that Long.. compared to other LTs last year had an inordinate amount of help. You have attempted to show ONE side through anectdotal "evidence"...

Not much math science or debate in your life?

BTW, your assurtion may entirely be correct... but you spouting off about it sure as hell doesn't proove me wrong .. proof requires more than arrogance and a louder voice.

I'm sorry, but there is a world of difference between anecdotal evidence and a play-by-play breakdown of every snap two players had against one another, which also includes who helped out Jake Long.

If anyone is displaying arrogance here, it's you, as you continually assume that not providing evidence somehow trumps me actually supporting my claims with evidence.

Sorry that you lost your temper because you were made to look foolish, but that's not my fault.

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 11:15 PM
I'm sorry, but there is a world of difference between anecdotal evidence and a play-by-play breakdown of every snap two players had against one another, which also includes who helped out Jake Long.

If anyone is displaying arrogance here, it's you, as you continually assume that not providing evidence somehow trumps me actually supporting my claims with evidence.

Sorry that you lost your temper because you were made to look foolish, but that's not my fault.

Ha, not lost my temper.. thanks though..

No, see this is how it works in debate...

if YOU make a statement (which you did) .. YOU have to back up that statement ... showing that he received help would be step 1.. showing that others did not in comparison is step 2... and to be ACCURATE, you should have a broad enough cross section of data....

These are things you learn in debate, science, math... and yes.. now I am being a prick... but I have to get off the BBS in a sec.. so I figured I would go all out! :D

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 11:17 PM
Ha, not lost my temper.. thanks though..

No, see this is how it works in debate...

if YOU make a statement (which you did) .. YOU have to back up that statement ... showing that he received help would be step 1.. showing that others did not in comparison is step 2... and to be ACCURATE, you should have a broad enough cross section of data....

These are things you learn in debate, science, math... and yes.. now I am being a prick... but I have to get off the BBS in a sec.. so I figured I would go all out! :D

Did you read that post at all?

I'm scoring the Long vs. Long match-up like a fight: Each Dolphins offensive drive is a round, and I'll score using the 10-point must system. I've done this before with Dwight Freeney taking on Jonathan Ogden in 2004 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/every-play-counts/2004/every-play-counts-ogden-vs-freeney) and again in 2005 (http://www.footballoutsiders.com/every-play-counts/2005/every-play-counts-ogden-freeney-ii).

Drive 1
With Chris Long lined up to the outside of Jake Long and ready for a speed rush, Jake was called for a false start before the Dolphins' first offensive play. When the Dolphins finally got to run a play, Chris tried to rush to the outside of Jake and never got close to making the tackle as Jake pushed him aside. The Dolphins didn't think Chris was fast enough to make tackles from the backside; when a Ronnie Brown run went around the right end, Jake didn't even bother blocking Chris and Chris was not, in fact, fast enough to track Brown down.

<iframe src="http://webcenter.polls.aol.com/modular.jsp?template=1386&view=157333&pollId=157613&channel=aol_us_sports&popup=yes" width="210" align="right" frameborder="0" height="255"></iframe> On Chad Pennington's second pass of the game, Chris absolutely dominated Jake. Chris started with an outside speed rush, but when Jake got into good position to stop him, Chris simply grabbed Jake by the shoulder pads, threw him to the ground, and then grabbed Pennington and slammed him to the ground. Pennington (barely) got the pass off, but it was incomplete, and Chris made him pay the price for it. The next time Pennington passed, Jake got help blocking Chris from guard Andy Alleman.

Overall, from the false start to the hit on Pennington, Chris Long absolutely dominated this round.

Score: Chris, 10-7.

Drive 2
Dolphins running back Lousaka Polite got the handoff on the first play of the drive, and Jake opened up a big hole by pushing Chris to the outside. When Pennington dropped back to pass, Jake got a little bit of help on a chip block from tight end Anthony Fasano, but even without Fasano's help, Jake appeared to have Chris under control. On Pennington's next pass Chris tried to spin to the inside and Jake held him in check, and then Chris tried another outside move on the pass after that, and Jake stoned him again.

Chris made a nice play on a handoff to Ronnie Brown, getting off Jake's initial block and taking Brown down after a gain of seven yards. (That play came back because Dolphins offensive lineman Vernon Carey was called for facemasking.) After that, Chris spent a few plays on the sideline. But for the most part, when they went one-on-one, Jake got the better of the battle.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 3
A three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 4
The first play was a strange one: Chris came with an outside rush and beat, Jake, forcing Pennington to step up in the pocket. When Pennington did step up in the pocket, he saw that there was nothing but green turf in front of him, so he scampered 16 yards before stepping out of bounds. It was a heads-up play for Pennington and a good play for the Dolphins, but what we're interested in here is the individual battle, and Chris clearly won that play.

On a handoff to Ricky Williams later in the drive, Jake drove Chris back a few yards but then just stopped blocking before the play was over. Both Jake and Chris looked to me like they gave up on a few plays before the whistle blew, which is the type of thing you can get away with when you're in college and you're a lot better than everyone else, but that you can't get away with if you want to be a great NFL player.

After a holding penalty, the Dolphins faced first-and-20 with 49 seconds left before halftime. Chris rushed to the outside and Jake got in his way at first, doing a pretty good job of maintaining the proper position. But as Pennington tried to buy time in the pocket, Chris finally got Jake off balance, knocked him down, and hit Pennington just as Pennington delivered his pass, a seven-yard completion to Fasano. Jake held his pass block for, by my stopwatch, 4.0 seconds -- long enough that on most plays, Chris wouldn't have gotten to Pennington. But the bottom line is that Pennington took a shot to the ribs. That means Jake didn't hold his block long enough.

Score: Chris, 10-8.

Drive 5
On the first play of the second half, Jake was matched up with Chris on a Pennington pass, and both Williams and Alleman came over to help him. Is this a sign that the Dolphins made a halftime adjustment, thinking Jake couldn't handle Chris and they'd need to give him help?

Probably not, because on Pennington's next pass, it was Jake vs. Chris, one-on-one again. Chris got good pressure on Pennington, as did Rams defensive lineman James Hall, and they both hit Pennington as he passed, forcing an incompletion and a three-and-out.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 6
Jake was one-on-one with Chris again on Pennington's next pass, and although he looked a little clumsy -- losing his balance and going to the ground -- he held up long enough that Pennington had time to throw a beautiful pass along the right sideline for a 37-yard completion to Davone Bess.

On the next two plays, runs by Ronnie Brown, Jake blocked Chris effectively, and when Pennington passed again, Jake held him in check without needing any help. It was a good series for Jake, and it culminated in a Dolphins field goal.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 7
The Dolphins ran just two plays on this drive, fumbling both times. On the first play, Pennington bobbled the snap, picked it up, tried to run to his left, and was tackled by Chris, who used quick footwork to get by Jake.

On the second play, Pennington pitched the ball to Brown, who passed it to tight end David Martin, who fumbled. Rams linebacker Quinton Culberson picked it up and tried to run, but Jake hustled downfield and tackled him. That was a great, heads-up play by Jake, although hustling downfield to make tackles after fumbles isn't really the first thing you look for in an offensive tackle. Overall, thanks to the tackle on Pennington, I have to give this
round to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Drive 8
Again, a three-play drive, with Chris staying on the sideline. Nothing to see here.

Score: 10-10 draw.

Drive 9
Not much action between the two here, either, but when they did go one-on-one, on a Pennington deep pass, Jake held Chris at bay, so we'll give it to Jake.

Score: Jake, 10-9.

Drive 10
The Dolphins' final drive of the game was a long one, on which Miami controlled the ball, held onto its lead and forced St. Louis to use all three timeouts. Jake showed off some good run blocking, but he and Alleman both flinched on a third down (perhaps anticipating a speed rush from Chris, who was lined up on Jake's outside shoulder), giving the Dolphins a costly false start penalty. That's enough to give the final round of this fight to Chris.

Score: Chris, 10-9.

Final score: Chris Long beats Jake Long by score of 97-92.

No, Chris Long didn't record a sack, and yes, he got just one tackle. But he hit Pennington three times and generally looked like a much better pass rusher than Jake Long is a pass blocker. Jake was fine in run blocking, but he still has work to do as a pass blocker, and overall, Chris Long won this battle of highly drafted rookies.

One more time for posterity

AustinChief
04-08-2009, 11:25 PM
Did you read that post at all?



Jesus dude.. I have to go.. but we can pick this up again later if you want...

BUT YES. I read your post and again... you aren't grasping the concept...

Show me twenty or thirty game breakdowns (in reality you should provide 2-3 years worth of ALL LTs) and then you have enough data to start making statements that are probably FACT... or at least opinion with enough fact to back it up...

You can't just make a claim... post one set of data and jump up and go "SEE, LOOK AT ME, I'M RIGHT!" That is like me saying Truman was the best president because he didn' do this or that... but NOT showing data whether any OTHER president did this or that or not.
Even that wouldn't be enough to properly trend...

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 11:30 PM
Jesus dude.. I have to go.. but we can pick this up again later if you want...

BUT YES. I read your post and again... you aren't grasping the concept...

Show me twenty or thirty game breakdowns (in reality you should provide 2-3 years worth of ALL LTs) and then you have enough data to start making statements that are probably FACT... or at least opinion with enough fact to back it up...

You can't just make a claim... post one set of data and jump up and go "SEE, LOOK AT ME, I'M RIGHT!" That is like me saying Truman was the best president because he didn' do this or that... but NOT showing data whether any OTHER president did this or that or not.
Even that wouldn't be enough to properly trend...

JFC, this is ridiculous. You can say Jake Long was a great pick at 1 because he made a pro bowl and because you claim he has great feet and that is more than sufficient, and if someone challenges you with specific evidence from a game, as well as the reports of scouts that he doesn't, and points out numerous LTs, that we have all watched first hand (see the difference between Roaf and Jordan Black) that have not required and have required help, then they haven't proven enough.

What a preposterous amount of hypocrisy. That's just staggering, and that's not mentioning the obvious proof that you showed in not having read the article, when it precisely points out when, where, and by whom he was helped while you claimed that nothing of the sort was implied or said.

'Hamas' Jenkins
04-08-2009, 11:49 PM
For the fuck of it, we'll drop some more evidence down the pike:

Unfortunately, when Long is on the left side, protecting Pennington, he doesn't look so natural.

Pennington was never sacked on Sunday, but there were a few plays when Long left him vulnerable. On one Pennington pass in the first quarter, Long was at left tackle with Seymour to his inside and Vrabel to his outside. He gave a quick shove to Seymour and then turned toward Vrabel, but it was too late: Vrabel was already past him. Fortunately for the Dolphins, Brown stayed in for pass protection and kept Vrabel from getting to Pennington, with Long eventually coming over to help Brown. I can't say for sure what the Dolphins' protection assignments were on the play, but it looked like Brown bailed Long out by blocking Vrabel when Long should have.

On another pass play, a second-and-12 in the third quarter, Long was at left tackle with Patriots outside linebacker Adalius Thomas to his outside. At the snap, Patriots safety Rodney Harrison blitzed to Long's inside, and Long let him go to block Thomas. That was a mistake; if Long had to let someone go it should have been Thomas, who had a longer route to get to Pennington. Fortunately for the Dolphins, Pennington got his pass off just before Harrison hit him, and it was complete for a 12-yard gain to Williams.
http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2008/09/jake-long-tall.jpg
Two plays later Long made a similar mistake: When Thomas looped to the inside to blitz, Long got caught flat-footed and let Thomas go when he should have followed him. But, again, Pennington escaped the pressure and passed for a first down. Any of those plays could have resulted in Pennington getting sacked, but since Pennington got the passes away despite the pressure, no one will remember how Long screwed up.

One of the good things about having a weak-armed quarterback like Pennington is that the Dolphins are going to throw mostly short passes, meaning they don't need the offensive line to hold its blocks quite as long as they would if Pennington were throwing downfield more often. And most of the time, Long at least got in the way of the guy he was pass-blocking for long enough that Pennington could get a short pass away. On the first play of the Dolphins' second offensive series, for instance, Long was matched one-on-one with Vrabel, who blitzed as Pennington dropped back to pass. Vrabel got a fairly good first step and appeared to have Long off balance for a moment, but Long quickly recovered and stayed in front of Vrabel long enough to allow Pennington to get the pass off.

Of all the Patriots who rushed Pennington with Long blocking them, the one who was the most effective was probably defensive end Jarvis Green, who almost disrupted one of Pennington's first quarter passes simply by pushing Long straight back toward Pennington. The knock on Long coming out of college was that he would struggle with speed rushers, as he did with former Ohio State defensive end and current Jets linebacker Vernon Gholston. But on Sunday it was the bull rush that seemed more effective against Long.

When I was at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/FanHouseattheCombine), I talked to several NFL people who thought Long, a left tackle at Michigan, should move to the right in the NFL. Based on the way he played Sunday, I'd have to concur. He's as good as they come at opening holes in the running game, but I'd be worried if I were a quarterback counting on Long to protect my blind side.

----------------------------------------------------

Saccopoo
04-09-2009, 01:12 AM
ok fair enough. Maybe just Oklahomo football. I hate the Sooners but watched most of their games over the last few years ... and mark my words, he will be an excellent RIGHT tackle somewhere... unless some team is stupid and tries to plug him in at LT in a pass happy offense.

I honestly think he could be "servicable" at LT if you are a run crazy team... but I wouldn't draft him to take the risk...

I hate to say it, but "This."

RustShack
04-09-2009, 01:16 AM
If I were on a power rushing team with mauling Olinemen and rarely passed the ball, I'd take big Phil... otherwise, no thanks.

Saccopoo
04-09-2009, 01:23 AM
Yeah, and we picked at 20 that year, and he went 5. All things being equal, we could have done a hell of a lot worse than a RT, Ted Ginn, or Okoye at 20. Trading up for them? Not so much.

Furthermore, I'd also like to add that I was far less educated about the draft back then. I'd say the 2006 version of me would probably be far more in line with the Curry praisers and would be high 1st round QB averse. I have no problem admitting the error of my ways. Wasn't my first, won't be my last.

Well, thank Christ that the last two years of internet browsing has educated you enough to be a fucking draft guru and that now, after such enlightenment, you can talk down to just about everyone regarding the draft. 2006 must have been an awful good year for Missouri wine and the re-education of Hamas in terms of the draft. Hail to you Mr. Mel Kiper Light.

AustinChief
04-09-2009, 02:40 AM
For the fuck of it, we'll drop some more evidence down the pike:

Unfortunately, when Long is on the left side, protecting Pennington, he doesn't look so natural.

Pennington was never sacked on Sunday, but there were a few plays when Long left him vulnerable. On one Pennington pass in the first quarter, Long was at left tackle with Seymour to his inside and Vrabel to his outside. He gave a quick shove to Seymour and then turned toward Vrabel, but it was too late: Vrabel was already past him. Fortunately for the Dolphins, Brown stayed in for pass protection and kept Vrabel from getting to Pennington, with Long eventually coming over to help Brown. I can't say for sure what the Dolphins' protection assignments were on the play, but it looked like Brown bailed Long out by blocking Vrabel when Long should have.

On another pass play, a second-and-12 in the third quarter, Long was at left tackle with Patriots outside linebacker Adalius Thomas to his outside. At the snap, Patriots safety Rodney Harrison blitzed to Long's inside, and Long let him go to block Thomas. That was a mistake; if Long had to let someone go it should have been Thomas, who had a longer route to get to Pennington. Fortunately for the Dolphins, Pennington got his pass off just before Harrison hit him, and it was complete for a 12-yard gain to Williams.
http://www.blogcdn.com/nfl.fanhouse.com/media/2008/09/jake-long-tall.jpg
Two plays later Long made a similar mistake: When Thomas looped to the inside to blitz, Long got caught flat-footed and let Thomas go when he should have followed him. But, again, Pennington escaped the pressure and passed for a first down. Any of those plays could have resulted in Pennington getting sacked, but since Pennington got the passes away despite the pressure, no one will remember how Long screwed up.

One of the good things about having a weak-armed quarterback like Pennington is that the Dolphins are going to throw mostly short passes, meaning they don't need the offensive line to hold its blocks quite as long as they would if Pennington were throwing downfield more often. And most of the time, Long at least got in the way of the guy he was pass-blocking for long enough that Pennington could get a short pass away. On the first play of the Dolphins' second offensive series, for instance, Long was matched one-on-one with Vrabel, who blitzed as Pennington dropped back to pass. Vrabel got a fairly good first step and appeared to have Long off balance for a moment, but Long quickly recovered and stayed in front of Vrabel long enough to allow Pennington to get the pass off.

Of all the Patriots who rushed Pennington with Long blocking them, the one who was the most effective was probably defensive end Jarvis Green, who almost disrupted one of Pennington's first quarter passes simply by pushing Long straight back toward Pennington. The knock on Long coming out of college was that he would struggle with speed rushers, as he did with former Ohio State defensive end and current Jets linebacker Vernon Gholston. But on Sunday it was the bull rush that seemed more effective against Long.

When I was at the NFL scouting combine in Indianapolis (http://www.fanhouse.com/tag/FanHouseattheCombine), I talked to several NFL people who thought Long, a left tackle at Michigan, should move to the right in the NFL. Based on the way he played Sunday, I'd have to concur. He's as good as they come at opening holes in the running game, but I'd be worried if I were a quarterback counting on Long to protect my blind side.

----------------------------------------------------

JFC back at ya... you still don't understand that your argument requires more data than JUST Jake Long.. even if I were to say YES he gets help on occasion... YOUR argument requires showing that other tackles DON'T... You have yet to show that side of it....

Reading comprehension.. try it out.

AustinChief
04-09-2009, 02:41 AM
If I were on a power rushing team with mauling Olinemen and rarely passed the ball, I'd take big Phil... otherwise, no thanks.
AGREED.. but that is IF someone tries to put him at LT.. at RT he will be fine on almost any team.

AustinChief
04-09-2009, 02:47 AM
What a preposterous amount of hypocrisy. That's just staggering, and that's not mentioning the obvious proof that you showed in not having read the article, when it precisely points out when, where, and by whom he was helped while you claimed that nothing of the sort was implied or said.

OK hypocrisy? I don't think that word means what you think it means....

Seriously dude, other than your attitude over draft opinions.. you come across as reasonably intelligent... PLEASE reread my posts and try to understand the point I am making.

YOU made a statement that you have yet to back up. Your statement requires proof that he is NOT a franchise LT... which YOU stated is someone who never needs help... prove that OTHER.. let me make this perfectly clear.. OTHER franchise LTs don't get help... you have YET to touch on that half of the argument. hence your assertion is far from fact... it is nothing but hot air.

Christ I am tired of trying to teach a logic class and am going to bed.

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 07:22 AM
AGREED.. but that is IF someone tries to put him at LT.. at RT he will be fine on almost any team.

You'd think so from looking at him, but I've payed alot of attention to him when I watched OU and I don't see how he'll ever make it in the NFL. He's SO slow...

htismaqe
04-09-2009, 07:23 AM
Holy shit.

Was Kyle drinking last night?

luv
04-09-2009, 08:10 AM
Holy shit.

Was Kyle drinking last night?

I hope he didn't have to get up early this morning.

I must admit that I love to read conversations like this (minus name calling and insults). It's a good way to learn a thing or two.

milkman
04-11-2009, 06:59 AM
#1 every LT gets help on occasion... LONG didn't get an inordinate amount.. and the BURDEN OF PROOF for your inane statement rests on you... show me a factual account of all his plays and compare him against other LTs and how much help was given as a percentage based on type of play (run or pass) Otherwise, it seems you are making this up to support a previously failed argument.

The only proof he could provide is showing all of his games, which isn't all that practical.
Jake Long did get an inordinate amout of help, but I apologize that I can not prove it.
I can only tell you that I watched a lot of the Dolphins, and that's how I saw.

#2 How many MORE ProBowls does Long need to go to before you admit being wrong?

I have always argued that pro bowls are overrated, and just just learned something recently that supports that opinion.

Sammy Winder went to two pro bowls.
Are you kidding me?
Sammy Winder?
What a ****ing joke.

milkman
04-11-2009, 07:17 AM
You'd think so from looking at him, but I've payed alot of attention to him when I watched OU and I don't see how he'll ever make it in the NFL. He's SO slow...

Exactly, which is why I called him a plodder, and thought that that description would be self explanatory.